There is absolutely no chance the Amercanized mutt version of 3 Body Problem will even come close to approaching the kinography of the chingu version
It's embarrassing that it's even being attempted
EARTH BEING TO TRISOLARIS
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Ye Wenjie did nothing wrong.
iirc she was the saviour of the human race, like all strong independent women are
what's the problem?
it's "hard sci-fi" schizos gushing over the dark forest theory, not understanding that its a moronic concept and a weak foundation for an entire novel series
I agree with you that it's a silly concept to take seriously (although I think there's interesting game theory behind it), but hard disagree that it's a weak foundation for a series. It's an amazing one
Very fedora post, considering we don't know shit about anything yet
we already know for a fact that there is no ancient predator species in our galaxy, because if there was, we wouldn't exist.
civilizations dont all arise at the same time, and even a headstart if half a million years, which is still the blink of an eye in astronomical timescales, gives you such a massive advantage that you win the galaxy by default. earth would've been colonized or sterilized long before humans even evolved if there was someone with hostile intentions in our neighborhood
This is like saying Humanity has such a massive technological advantage over ants and we can murder them by the millions at will therefor there should be absolutely no ant hives
If there were super duper smart aliens then where are they
shaggin ur mum
gottem
Why do ants still exist then. Why are there still many unknown insect species yet to be discovered then
ants don't shoot out radio waves
Almost all radio waves we send out don’t mean shit against the cosmic microwave background radiation. Might as well try to hear someone whisper on the other side of town.
The argument was there are no predator aliens. Aka aliens that actively seek to exterminate other lesser species.
Ants is a bad parallel to argue about because our species doesn't seek the extermination of the ant species. We are selective based on location. This is different than a xenophobic genocidal alien.
It's different.
Stop being dumb and talking about ants.
it's fine
zoo theory is cooler
the main issue if you're not a mathlet is that 3body problem has no closed solution but you can just use numeric methods like with navier stokes.
Just be a rich alien civ and run a lot of gpus lol.
morons can fold a proton but can't make a bitcoin farm lmao.
zoo theory also has plenty of flaws because it implies that all alien species and all of their individual citizens agree and follow the no-contact rule. how would they enforce this? would they really be willing to shoot down their own people to prevent them from making contact? what about 3rd party alien species that don't agree with this?
its impossible to hide our own civilization from some uncontacted tribes in the jungle and theres some religious people visiting them every year, the "uncontacted tribes" are aware that a larger human world exists, they just want nothing to do with it. we would know they exist if the zoo theory was real.
>the main issue if you're not a mathlet is that 3body problem has no closed solution but you can just use numeric methods like with navier stokes.
Just be a rich alien civ and run a lot of gpus lol.
It's ridiculous because the books even address this approach (the army calculator) and when it breaks down they just give up on the idea. The modern trisolarians should absolutely know exactly when and how long they have stable periods, up to millions of years into the future.
I can accept that they're just angry and pissed off after their rough evolutionary childhood and from having to dehydrate all the time. I don't like being thirsty, either.
He could have just written that the Trisolarians reached the computer age and realized they were gonna fly into the sun in 50,000 years or something. Would have made their motivations a lot easier.
I've never read the books, but in the chinku show that's basically what happens. They learn that the suns go through "breathing" cycles that have destroyed 11 of the 12 planets already and it will happen again soon. It's their primary motivation, other than being grumpy I guess.
>its a moronic concept and a weak foundation for an entire novel series
>Aliens find out about earth
>launch projectiles at it at near relatavistic speeds
>earth just blows up one day and everyone dies
Anything else is not realistic.
It's funny you say that because that's literally the entire premise of the entire show
Nice digits.
Would make for a shit movie/story. I could maybe imagine it being a 25 minute twilight zone episode where earth explodes in the first minute and then the next 20 minutes is the narrator explaining why.
It's more that 3BP is about explaining in depth why the aliens are doing something different than just insta-gibbing us, but what you suggested is the basic idea behind the Dark Forest idea. The name of the second book.
the projectiles should've already hit earth when hominids were still around 3 million years ago, because there's literally no reason to wait for your enemy to reach spaceflight before you genocide them. we were already a potential danger when there was only half a million of us.
the idea that a vastly ancient and superior enemy would only strike right now, when there is already a small chance that we could counter it, makes the premise flawed
I'm sure if they had any way of knowing that hominids existed here 3 million years ago, that's exactly what they'd do
unfortunately the speed of light is a thing that exists
>unfortunately
Alien detected
>the projectiles should've already hit earth when hominids were still around 3 million years ago
We weren't broadcasting 3 million years ago.
I'll read those books, actually. Thanks for the recommendation.
>broadcasting
radio waves dont matter at all in detecting alien civilizations. earth has been reflecting light for billions of years, we already have telescopes that can gauge the atmospheric composition of exoplanets from their light spectrum, aliens will be able to do the same. you cant hide or fake these light signatures and they're already travelling to them. earth already had these signatures of oxygen, CO2 and ozone, in the past, which are pretty strong signatures of life.
any alien civilization nearby wouldve picked up on this. they either wouldve come here and take earth because its prime real estate location, or sterilize it just to be sure there wont ever be competition.
There are 200 billion stars in the Milky Way galaxy. Being an incredibly ancient and advanced species does not imply you know what it happening around each and every one of them. There are limits to what the laws of physics allow you to do. It’s very likely that even if such a species did exist, they are not even aware that earth can support life, because they simply live too far away and so cannot directly image our atmosphere with their telescopes, which would also imply that they are too far away to travel here physically. You are also assuming that once a species reaches such a level they will stay that advanced in perpetuity, which is also not a guarantee.
It's also presumtuous to assume they care. I can look at satelite imagery from africa, that doesn't mean I want to kill a pack of lions there. Even if lions would eat me if I was near them
If a species has the power to know there's developing life on planets around the galaxies, I can't imagine they'd give much of a frick
any civilization that is capable of interstellar travel can use 1% of their local resources to build thousands of deep space telescopes to keep tabs on their neighborhood. this is a beneficial strategy even if you are friendly and just want to know where to send your colonists.
the dark forest is not dark at all, you just have to look, everything lies out in the open.
even if it takes you a thousand years to survey every planet in the galaxy with your thousands of telescopes, its still a worthwhile endeavour and takes no time at all compared to the time to actually go there. long range scouting will be step1 of any serious space civilization.
Direct imaging of exoplanets is extremely difficult, and works best with relatively close by planets. If the alien civilization was too far away from us, a third of the way across the galaxy say, then it might very well be impossible for them to directly image earth no matter how powerful their telescopes are.
they wont need a direct image of earth, they just need to gather enough information from our light spectrum to be reasonably confident that earth can hold life. they will know that there is at least the potential for a civilization on earth and act on their strategy accordingly
> they wont need a direct image of earth, they just need to gather enough information from our light spectrum to be reasonably confident that earth can hold life.
That is exactly what direct imaging is. When we look for exoplanets, most of the time we collect literally zero light spectra from the planet itself, because all of that light is being drowned out by the parent star. It’s like trying to measure the light coming from a match that is being held an inch away from the biggest spotlight in the world, from 5 miles away. It’s a safe assumption that other species would have to use the same indirect methods we do, such as gravitational influence and orbital occlusion.
It's a concept that is interesting in how it reflects the Chinese mindset.
Why do channers string words together this way? Nobody says shit like "THE Chinese mindset" irl, stop trying to bait with your terminally online lingo and start being genuine.
The problem is it's an idea Redditors have no doubt spoken about so it can't be good by default
It's impossible to accurately calculate the orbits of 3+ bodies interacting with each other through gravity
has it been proven that it's impossible, or is it just too difficult for our current understanding?
It's annoying enough that after a few thousand cycles you give the frick up and invade your neighbours instead of working on the solution
>In February 2024, several studies were reported which may suggest a solution.
> Hebrew University (13 February 2024). "Breakthrough in predicting chaotic outcomes in three-body systems". Phys.org. Archived from the original on 14 February 2024. Retrieved 13 February 2024.
jews once again making breakthroughs
>side with us trisolargoys we have the solution to your problems
don't listen to the israelites
I gave up watching the bugmen version after they spent the entire length of an episode just establishing that he's seeing numbers and they're a countdown
Just excruciating pacing
I don't blame you, I gave up on the bug version for the same reason, a few times
Very early on it does exactly what you're saying, where it spends waaaaaaay to long going over concepts that you already understood and are bored with after 5 minutes
It gets even worse when they start spending more time in a videogame, which made me drop the show even harder
However I did come back and I will say this for the show, it actually gets better about this and the second half is almost pure kino, although it does still have some sluggish points
It also does take a long ass time getting to the actual points
But I think that when you actually get there, it kind of all becomes worth it, at least it did to me. But admittedly it's all the things I am interested in so I'm bias in favor of it.
The chink version didn't portray Wenjie's issues well because of their muh cultural sensitivities. I fully expect D&D to scratch that itch, at least. That entire arc with its conclusion is one of the main highlights in the book
>BMWF
not watching it
honestly of the entire cast the white male annoys me the most
I get where you're coming from though
I watched the insect version so I'll manage
cant stand this homie
Aren't you excited for him to make soience quips?
this is like hekin Schrodinger's cat!
I know it's going to be slop, but I still hope it has some good stuff
i respond to trisolarons for she
How complicated is this series compared to something like, say, Dune? Do I have to be mega high IQ to get it or will the show inevitably dumb it down anyway?
It's Netflix so it's going to be extremely dumbed down
That said I'm mentally moronic and I enjoyed the chink version a lot
It's not really that complicated, it's more that it takes it's time and you will get more out of it if you have knowledge of some very basic science history
But honestly, it's only a step or two above folding a piece of paper and pushing a pencil through it type stuff.
My guess is on average galaxies only ever have 2-4 civilizations capable of communications and space travel, and the time span and distances between these civilizations means that they will never come in contact with each other
But perhaps in a few galaxies, they happened to be near each other. I mean, if I estimate 2-4 civilizations per galaxy on average and there's billions upon billions of galaxies, in at least a few it seems plausible that by pure chance two planets happened to be in communications range. That's interesting to think about
But it would be the rare exception, if it's happened at all
Obviously this is pure speculation but if there's a gun to my head that's my guess.
All of this, garbage
When will we get a decent Firefall/Echopraxia adaptation?
They cant milk Firefall for 5 seasons.
>dude it's space thriller but there are vampires that drink blood
Fricking dropped this shit right there what an ass combination
hot steamy tatiana lesbian sex while fantasizing about aliens purifying earth
I prefer what I’m dubbing the ‘vast plain’ theory. Sure, intelligent life may be out there somewhere, but most people don’t truly comprehend how ludicrously large a distance even one light year is. There is absolutely no good reason for aliens to travels 10s, 100s or thousands of light years just to frick with us. Resources and land have always been the two great reasons for war (followed by things like ideological differences, political alliances, etc), but this is because we live on a finite planet. Once you can travel between the stars there’s no reason to go poking the ant hill when you can get whatever you want somewhere else. The number of uninhabited systems you could go to instead is gigantic. Even if you have some game theory idea of ‘kill them before they have the chance to kill us’ it still would not be worth it. The various negative pressures to starting an interstellar conflict (the vast distances, difficulty, etc) are so great that the chances of some species picking a fight with you for no reason are essentially nil. You would basically be opening up the door to your own possible defeat by taking that first step due the possibility of failing the first strike, however incredibly small the chance of that happening might be. Now you’ve pissed off a whole species for no good reason. It makes much more sense to go quietly through the galaxy.
I just think the distances are too vast and time scales too large for us or anyone else to ever notice each other
I wonder if we'll ever see or hear echoes though. You never know. But probably not
This is an okay theory, but
The interesting bit about 3 Body series is that it describes other planes of existence with different agendas. In our three dimensions we have vast distances, but in four or further up - if they do exist - that vastness becomes more maneuverable. In the novels, the guys that originate from higher dimensions are the main reason that dark forest universe is a thing.
> it describes other planes of existence with different agendas. In our three dimensions we have vast distances, but in four or further up - if they do exist - that vastness becomes more maneuverable
This is precisely why the series isn’t actually a ‘hard’ sci fi series. Sure, those ‘higher dimensions’ might exist. But if they do, their effects are already felt by all of us and our 3 dimensional physical forms already take them into account. Dimensions are not like planes from magic the gathering. Any dimension which does exist in physics is already effecting the structure of the entire universe. There is absolutely no cheating the speed of light. No way at all. It is literally mathematically impossible.
t. hasn't seen someone fold a paper and push a pencil through it
Who says light is fastest? It's the fastest we can observe. There could be loopholes, exotic materials or particles, strange chemistry etc. You sound like a midwit unable to even imagine outside the box.
Shit like quantum entanglement or superposition or other undiscovered laws or concepts could potentially lead to results moving faster than light.
The speed of light is not some arbitrary limit, but rather light would travel at whatever the fastest possible permitted speed is. It basically represents the speed at which causal relationships propagate through the universe. If we hold that general relativity is at all valid, then traveling faster than light is impossible because it would both take infinite energy and also create causal paradoxes.
I agree in the series isn't nearly as hard as fans say it is, but it does deal with those issues.
Original universe is 11 dimensions with an infinite speed of light, but flattening a dimension is weaponised and spreads at that levels speed of light.
There are still areas of higher dimensions in the universe, but by in large the 3d world we live in is the result of aeons of dimension attacks
Earth is transmitting non stop and the transmission is effectively
>Hello everyone! We are good natured fools that can't defend ourselves.
And that doesn’t matter at all. That’s like some schmuck in China saying the same thing to you. Do you care? Are you going to fly to China to steal his meager possessions? This also isn’t accounting for the fact that all but the most powerful, specially tailored, radio signals we send to space get drowned out by the cosmic microwave background radiation before they make it a few light years.
>That’s like some schmuck in China saying the same thing to you
it's not quite like that. Me and the schmuch in China are the only two people on the planet and while he lives in in squalor I live in a paradise palace. If I don't press a button he might take this from me one day. I would press the button, yes.
this still has the flawed assumption that every civilization arises at roughly the same time and are roughly at equal levels of power.
in reality, one would have to be first and just take everything before their competition even crawled out of the ocean.
"kill them all before they can kill us" is a good strategy if you have relativistic kill missiles and everyone else is still dinosaurs
No, because the inherent built in assumption of the theory is that the galaxy is so vast that it’s basically impossible for a species of any technology level to consume the whole thing even across millions of years, due to the constraints the laws of physics place upon all of us. Also, you’re making the assumption that once a certain technological level is reached that species will always remain at it. A lot can happen over millions of years, and biological and social evolution is not a straight arrow going up.
as soon as a civilization has spread over a dozen stars, they are immune to all kinds of collapses and regressions, because there will always be pockets of their people who either escape the cataclysm, choose a different path or find a local solution to the problem.
even if there are periods of regression, destruction or even large scale extinctions, the pandoras box of technology is already opened for that civilization and they will only spread out over the long term.
a lot can indeed happen over millions of years, but a single specific event that gets ALL of them when they're spread out that far is impossible imho
All of that is true, but across a long enough timescale all those various groups and factions would essentially diverge into new species. You’re describing a situation where the race does not present a united front, and would have far more pressing issue much closer to home. They would have much better things to do. It would be like us expending a great amount of resources to annihilate the Amazonian river otter while currently engaged in a civil war or some pandemic.
I agree that their own colonial descendants would likely be a far greater threat to an alien species that some other civilization on the far side of the galaxy. still, local periods of peace and expansion would enable them to get everywhere eventually, even while parts of their fractured "empire" are at war with eachother
That could very well be the case. But it’s also likely the distances, time scales, and difficulty involved in colonizing another star system are so great that the very concept of an ‘interstellar empire’ is impossible. It could be that when that second system is colonized, you would now immediately have two completely separate political entities.
The issue is the possibility of being outstripped by a hostile race, which is naturally far more dangerous than a failed first strike.
Dark Forest theory fails because the books make the assumption that first strikes are generally effective, and that a hunter can move in a way that makes detection impossible. The solution to Dark Forest is grey goo, and the fact we haven't been consumed yet means that Dark Forest is bunk or we're the first in our local region.
Yeah but all of the same factors which would be pressuring that species to not be hostile would also be affecting all of the others ones. What I’m saying with this theory, is that the nature of the galaxy is such that the risks and consequences of a failed first strike are literally always greater than the risk that there might be such a hostile alien race out there.
I find the idea that we're the first within a million lightyears oddly comfy.
being the gardener of the cosmos and bringing life into the galaxy sounds like a good mission.
I was looking up the book on Wikipedia and the plot started with
>During the Cultural Revolution, Ye Wenjie, an astrophysics graduate from Tsinghua University, witnesses her father get beaten to death during a struggle session by Red Guards from Tsinghua High School.
That's weird, I think I missed that part in the show?
>Can I copy your homework?
>Yeah just change it up a bit so it isn't obvious
>what is stuff made of? Molecules
>What are molecules made of? atoms
>what are atoms made of? particles
>what art particles made of? quarks
>what are quarks made of? strings
>what are strings made of? ...probability?
physics isn't real.
How many nogs are forced into this?
It's pretty rough but I still feel the need to point out that
the white male is the worst part
The character changes and the casting are going to be the worst part of this
i'm ready to shill tatiana was my waifu
kinda hate her name but I'll make it work
Just finished reading the second part. I was about to drop it a couple of times, the part with the waifu was tedious, but it was worth it in the end.
Just how woke is this show?
The original series is 0 woke. You have trigger warnings on reddit warning people about how sexist is the author. There is a theme about how many ecologists are funded by humans that sided with the aliens trying to prevent humans from developing advanced technology.
The netflix version seems to be full of blacks and homosexuals.
the chink version is "women ruin everything"
the book version is "communist women ruin everything"
the netflix version looks to be "white women ruin everything"
at least they all stayed true to the pattern
Kek, I remembered coming across a journal talking about feminist problems in the Three-Body Problem trilogy, because most of the series only happened because some female character messed everything up and then only solved by other male char
>most of the series only happened because some female character messed everything up
There are even two women this could apply to in the series
One of the main points of book two is that civilization becomes to feminine in the future, and only two guys from the past (present) can save them lol.
In the end the second woman dooms the solar system anyways by lack of self discipline basically.
Liu Cixin was asked in an interview if people are misunderstanding this and he doubled down lmao.
>because most of the series only happened because some female character messed everything up and then only solved by other male char
Which is why it's a good series. That's realistic and exactly what would happen irl.
>the netflix version looks to be "white women ruin everything"
Okay, but where's the lie? White women have doomed Western Civilization.
white women ruined my dog =/
watched the Chinese version, but dropped it at the VR bullshit as it made me cringe too hard
might dropped the netflix ver as well since it has vr bullshit too
I went in to it expecting science fiction for intelligent people, but that segment just went on and on and felt like something from a childrens cartoon
I agree. And you probably didn't even get to screaming galileo and gay newton, which were kino in their own right.
You're right though, I had the same opinion. The show becomes pretty kino after that though. It also helped that I spoiled myself, once I understand what the stupid game was about and being used for it become a lot more tolerable
Might continue watching it some time in the future, as the concept did sound interesting to me.
When it was described to me, it sounded similar to golden age science fiction, like Arthur C Clarke, which is usually rooted in contemporary science with a focus on space travel, aliens and philosophical questions. Childhood's End is my favorite book, which I thought it would be similar to in tone.
It is, the show just takes a long while to get there. I felt the same way. Around episode 13 or 14 or so it starts to become a lot better about this, although it still takes a while to come together. But you do see the bigger picture
If you want the spoiler that made the videogame stuff manageable for me, it's this:
The game is built to explain the history and evolution of an alien species and their chaotic and harsh system, and how that species wants to leave that system because it's chaotic. The game is also an indoctrination tool meant to find intelligent people who can work on solving the problem, but really to make them sympathetic to the plight of the aliens, so that they will welcome them with open arms, and sabotage attempts to stop them (it will take decades for them to reach us). The aliens are not humans like us, but it puts humans in the positions they were in so as to make people sympathetic. Also, they have a different chemistry that makes some of the stuff that was moronic make a lot more sense
I did the same and don't blame you but for what it's worth, it does have a point that eventually pays off. Spoiling myself actually made it watchable. And it gets dropped soon anyway
But yeah, I did the same so I get it. I even seethed about it on Cinemaphile but now I'm shilling it so here we are.
dropped the book shortly after they used the carbon fiber wire to cut the boat.
I believe it was a scene in which some american colonel came up to the main character and started spilling his entire life fricking story, just like every other character in the book does when they're introduced.
>Hi, I'm David Gweilo
>I'm a rich billionaire from America but I just can't stand how my company does things, so I'm out here in the forest working on X Y Z. My hopes and dreams are to do A B and C. Nice to meet you, Ye Winjie from China.
So you have read the first book until the end?
it was a pdf so I wasn't sure how much longer there was when I dropped it.
tricolarin thead
sage in all dimensions
The American 3 Body Problem is either
>weight as much as 3 people
or
>pretend to be woman
>live as furry
>die like a homosexual
haha.
I don't understand why humans in the book are so defensive about protecting humanity from some aliens who are 4 centuries away.
The first one is good but I can't get past that humanity actually manages to develop technology enough to stalemate the superior aliens. And that is by threatening that they'll tell the location of trisolarians to another alien species lmao.
t. literal moron
>generate anti-higgs field
>speed of light now nolonger applies
it's literally that simple.
You wouldn't respond, right Cinemaphile?
..right?
I would. I need to know something about the ayys before dying. Fricking Trump release the documents
same, I'd resist a day tops
for me it's punishing my enemies though
locality isn't real
the standard model is fake
physics is so much fun to frick around with, it's so lame how flat earthers limit themselves to that niche. They could do so much damage if they moved into literally any other field
I do find it weird peoples complaints with the series in these threads. Nobody ever compliments the things I enjoyed about the series and just boils it down to the major concepts of the book and how they're flawed and the characters etc.
I feel like talking about the concepts and questions it raises is a way of complimenting it
I do find it funny how there are people who will criticize it who clearly haven't seen it because their criticism is either addressed or a central theme of the series
But this is all just human and especially Cinemaphile nature
This one is fairly negative, but I've been in others that give it plenty compliments about its concepts and ideas. It's got a couple of good set pieces and subplots.
I'm not argueing about breaking light speed, but it's in our nature to look for ways to circumvent it. You don't seem to possess that ability.
>photon traveling at the speed of light
>quantum tunnels the direction it was traveling
>speed of light exceeded by light itself
problem, physics?
You misunderstand what quantum tunneling is.
>Quantum tunnels to the other side of a wormhole
You were saying?
We still have no evidence that wormholes exist
Of course we do
my photon just traveled through one
The chinese show has some good music, but I find it funny how they use semi broken English singers. What is it with Asians and doing that? Reminds me of South Park's Let's Fighting Love
Does the Chinese version show that last part of the book when
the trisolarians unfold the proton to create the sophon?
yes
last ep
Thanks. I'll check it out. I'm curious about their cgi
Do the alien ships have shields or other sci-fi gizmo to defend themselves? Because, if not, I don't see them traveling the cosmos so easily, or even posing any real threat to us.
The chink version is a slog. It takes like 30 hours for the plot to even start. This is a major problem with all Chinese writing though. They prioritise length over substance, which is why you frequently see moronic shit like online Chinese novels that are 50,000 chapters long.
I would cuddle Ye Wenjie.
>Woman tries to destroy the planet and all human life because she's mad at her chink commie government.
I'm surprised this even got an adapt, and that the author wasn't thrown in jail, tbh.
>you should pre-emptively kill every living species you come across, lest it one day kill you
this seems to be the "antithesis" of the current demonstration about how ~~*life*~~ interacts with itself
>"dark forest"
theory is borne straight out of, and uniquely so, the minds of ww2 scientists
>"folds your 3d universe into 2d space"
^nothin personal hoooomahn