They really fricked up not making Krakoa's ending a weekly mini.

They really fricked up not making Krakoa's ending a weekly mini.

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  1. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Why?

  2. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    They really fricked up by not making a Krakoa ending. The island is just still there, ready to get back to when things calm down.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Well Arakko is still a thing post Krakoa, so they can just make up some shit about Krakoa reintegrating with Arakko or something.

  3. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Be honest with me: is this (HoX/PoX) actually good?

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Do you like stories with conclusions?

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Yes.

        Yes and no. It's better than what haters say, but like others anons said, it lacks am apropriate ending

        Damn.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          >Yes.
          Okay it doesn't have a conclusion. Since Hickman leaves the project halfway Krakoa is all buildup and the poof

          • 7 days ago
            Anonymous

            Well, shit.

            I assume you mean the whole era not just the HOXPOX book that launched it.

            The core work done by Hickman, Gillen, Ewing, Spurrier, and a couple others is good. Unfortunately, part of the core books were also by Duggan, and those were bad.
            The secondary books, the stuff by Howard, Ayala, Orlando, etc, that's trash. And reportedly, it was these kinds of writers that didn't want to move the status quo forward so they could play around with the island, and caused Hickman's plans to derail and him to bail.

            The ending? Rushed. The part by Duggan remains shit, the part by Gillen remains interesting.
            In all, the era is worth reading, but selectively. And it's very sad that a lot of potential was squandered like this.

            What about just HoX/PoX?

            • 7 days ago
              Anonymous

              HoX/PoX was good cause it wasn't X-men.
              Everything that was built up after it ultimately crashed and burned and could never have lasted cause, well, HoX/PoX wasn't X-men.
              I don't know how to explain it other than that without getting into shit nobody cares about, but that's the general feeling I had for this entire strange period

            • 7 days ago
              Anonymous

              >What about just HoX/PoX?
              A pretty fascinating start. Takes a lot of the staples of X-Men stories and either twists them or takes them to the extreme:
              Mutants vs Sentinels: the ultimate enemy is universal, extratemporal masses of AIs
              The X-Men come never stay dead, even more so than other superheroes: resurrection is now a matter of routine
              Constant love triangles and sexual tension: mutant culture is now sexually open, exemplified by Jean being with both Scott and Logan
              Mutant integration vs isolation, and mutant nations: an outright Mutant ethnostate forcing the world to recognize them, just no longer as underdogs but as bringers of gifts
              Villains switching to heroes often: all the mutant villains get amnesty and are now part of the mutant nation
              Alternate timelines: the entire thing is built upon the experience of 10 (X) timelines where mutantkind fails*

              *Since you're asking I'm gonna assume you haven't read it so I'll put this in spoilers: Moira being a mutant with the power of resetting the timeline when she dies and keeping all the memories is extremely interesting as a concept, but understandably also very controversial, maybe the most controversial part of the whole thing, aside from the mostly a meme complaint of "sex island/cuck cyclops".

              It was very interesting and it set up a status quo that had immense potential, while also clearly foreshadowing the inevitable downfall by planting the seeds from the very start.

              Also what

              You mean House of X/Powers of X itself, or the entire Krakoan era? If we're going with the former, then yeah, the start was interesting, primarily cause this was the first honest try to put forth X-men into a position as a high-concept scifi kind of series. But in hindsight, when you combine the amount of retcons and plotholes created for Hickman to tell the story he wanted to, and then look at what was actually done with the idea of mutants banding all their competing ideologies into one grand unified "might makes right" utopian philosopher king style society, it's at least massively disappointing. Especially because it became clear so few of the writers involved besides Hickman actually wanted to move forward from the honeymoon phase of X-men playing civ builder and just have them stuck playing on their gated community party island until they inevitably reset it back to the usual "mutants hated and feared" bullshit via genocide storylines.

              Basically, personal feelings and nostalgia aside, HoX/PoX was good in that it at least was very far from the norm for X-men writing, but the rest is questionable in terms of why it was even made when the end result was just to tear it all down non-dramatically with none of the X-men actually learning the important lesson that wanting your own mutant country and actually leading one are two vastly different things they were very unprepared for. So it's kind of a disappointment no matter how you look at it. Also, their choice of main antagonist for this era sucked so goddamn hard.

              said.

              HoX/PoX was good cause it wasn't X-men.
              Everything that was built up after it ultimately crashed and burned and could never have lasted cause, well, HoX/PoX wasn't X-men.
              I don't know how to explain it other than that without getting into shit nobody cares about, but that's the general feeling I had for this entire strange period

              There's speculation, not sure how backed up by fact, that it was a repurposed concept he'd come up for Legion of Superheroes originally. And I think, being relatively high concept and far-reaching would fit the comparatively isolated setting of Legion better than it does mainline Marvel.

              • 7 days ago
                Anonymous

                A lot of what they were doing for Hox/Pox and the Krakoan era in general would have made a lot more sense if it was placed in its own mini-series, given both how far reaching the intended consequences were supposed to be and how poorly they bothered to fit it in with the rest of the Marvel setting and vice versa. I can certainly respect when a writer wants to evolve the constraints of a setting to play into the science fiction aspects, but after a certain point Krakoa's "accomplishments" started to feel rather self-congratulatory when you consider most of what they accomplished was done by other people decades ago on 616. Like how they bragged about finally cheating death with their resurrection technology when Miles Warren was cloning people in the basement of a college on a professor's paycheck. Or trying to brag about mutant magic being a superior form of magic "without cost" despite the fact Dr. Strange fixed that aspect ages ago, leaving the only unique thing being that their magic circles are "superior" for being in the shape of an X and not an O.

                And that's not even getting into the time travel aspect that the entire premise hinges upon.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Yes and no. It's better than what haters say, but like others anons said, it lacks am apropriate ending

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      I assume you mean the whole era not just the HOXPOX book that launched it.

      The core work done by Hickman, Gillen, Ewing, Spurrier, and a couple others is good. Unfortunately, part of the core books were also by Duggan, and those were bad.
      The secondary books, the stuff by Howard, Ayala, Orlando, etc, that's trash. And reportedly, it was these kinds of writers that didn't want to move the status quo forward so they could play around with the island, and caused Hickman's plans to derail and him to bail.

      The ending? Rushed. The part by Duggan remains shit, the part by Gillen remains interesting.
      In all, the era is worth reading, but selectively. And it's very sad that a lot of potential was squandered like this.

    • 7 days ago
      Anonymous

      You mean House of X/Powers of X itself, or the entire Krakoan era? If we're going with the former, then yeah, the start was interesting, primarily cause this was the first honest try to put forth X-men into a position as a high-concept scifi kind of series. But in hindsight, when you combine the amount of retcons and plotholes created for Hickman to tell the story he wanted to, and then look at what was actually done with the idea of mutants banding all their competing ideologies into one grand unified "might makes right" utopian philosopher king style society, it's at least massively disappointing. Especially because it became clear so few of the writers involved besides Hickman actually wanted to move forward from the honeymoon phase of X-men playing civ builder and just have them stuck playing on their gated community party island until they inevitably reset it back to the usual "mutants hated and feared" bullshit via genocide storylines.

      Basically, personal feelings and nostalgia aside, HoX/PoX was good in that it at least was very far from the norm for X-men writing, but the rest is questionable in terms of why it was even made when the end result was just to tear it all down non-dramatically with none of the X-men actually learning the important lesson that wanting your own mutant country and actually leading one are two vastly different things they were very unprepared for. So it's kind of a disappointment no matter how you look at it. Also, their choice of main antagonist for this era sucked so goddamn hard.

      • 7 days ago
        Anonymous

        Pretty much this. The whole thing of Krakoa is that Hickman wanted to do a big Dune saga with superheroes and thought that his massive concepts and big ideas would distract from the fact that his ideas don't make any sense.

        Likewise, imho, as bad as Howard and Duggan etc are Hickman laid so much of the groundwork as to why this era sucked. He explicitly wrote HOXPOX as all the characters discarding their grudges with X-Men acting as if characters who they should actually despise were actually their best friends, he didn't go into how and why characters who would naturally hate the concept would go along with it and has every character speak the exact same way and seemingly have the exact same values.

        It's ties into two of the biggest problems with Hickman's worldbuilding and writing. He obviously has clear themes and ideas he wants to explore, but when you actually look a the structures, systems, organisations and it all falls apart. He also has this big issue of basically slamming a bunch of shit from novels he's read into a franchise, despite the fact that those ideas are incredibly incompatible with the franchises/characters he's writing. It was most clear in HOXPOX as he was basically shoving concepts from Dune and Gaiman's Miracleman into X-Men

        Likewise, the whole Moira X retcon was awful for multiple reasons but the big one was that Hickman didn't bother giving her a character or connecting her with the version of Moira that came before.

        >What about just HoX/PoX?
        A pretty fascinating start. Takes a lot of the staples of X-Men stories and either twists them or takes them to the extreme:
        Mutants vs Sentinels: the ultimate enemy is universal, extratemporal masses of AIs
        The X-Men come never stay dead, even more so than other superheroes: resurrection is now a matter of routine
        Constant love triangles and sexual tension: mutant culture is now sexually open, exemplified by Jean being with both Scott and Logan
        Mutant integration vs isolation, and mutant nations: an outright Mutant ethnostate forcing the world to recognize them, just no longer as underdogs but as bringers of gifts
        Villains switching to heroes often: all the mutant villains get amnesty and are now part of the mutant nation
        Alternate timelines: the entire thing is built upon the experience of 10 (X) timelines where mutantkind fails*

        *Since you're asking I'm gonna assume you haven't read it so I'll put this in spoilers: Moira being a mutant with the power of resetting the timeline when she dies and keeping all the memories is extremely interesting as a concept, but understandably also very controversial, maybe the most controversial part of the whole thing, aside from the mostly a meme complaint of "sex island/cuck cyclops".

        It was very interesting and it set up a status quo that had immense potential, while also clearly foreshadowing the inevitable downfall by planting the seeds from the very start.

        Also what [...] said.

        [...]
        There's speculation, not sure how backed up by fact, that it was a repurposed concept he'd come up for Legion of Superheroes originally. And I think, being relatively high concept and far-reaching would fit the comparatively isolated setting of Legion better than it does mainline Marvel.

        Oh this was 1000% a LOSH pitch that he retooled for X-Men.

        >The Dominions are quite literally DnA Computo
        >The whole thing of a super advanced society
        >Moira X's whole deal works a lot, lot better with the constant reboots of Legion
        >The whole theme of characters being reduced to their powers

    • 7 days ago
      Anonymous

      House of X is amazing, Powers of X is shit.

    • 7 days ago
      Anonymous

      Read it and form your own opinion? I liked it.

    • 7 days ago
      Anonymous

      It's disappointing. It's very blatantly obvious that it was being set up for an ending where the mutants' hubris comes back to bite them in the ass thanks to them alienating all of their mutant allies.
      But then that doesn't happen and it just keeps going, then eventually the bad guys just win for a bit before the X-Men mindlessly slaughter them
      The dominions crap is even more baffling. It feels like it has no place in this storyline and is instead just around as the "true bad guy" so that there are some semblance of stakes

  4. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    "fall of X" has dragged this ending on way too long.

  5. 7 days ago
    Anonymous

    they really fricked up everything involved with the ending

  6. 7 days ago
    Anonymous

    Inferno is actually a good ending for Hickman’s run if you read Moira = Hickman. Ends with her plans to carry the X-Men to prosperity getting completely derailed by some spiteful dykes for literally no discernible reason, and it ends with her exile. Pretty good meta storytelling. Percy was the one who turned Moira into a killer robot. HoX/PoX to Inferno Moira is a great character arc.

  7. 7 days ago
    Anonymous

    ok

  8. 7 days ago
    Anonymous

    What the's the current state of Arrako and David's Astral Plane? It seemed like the Arrako mutants got punked during axer and never really recovered. Is that the case?

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