b12 is the big one. b12 is literally not in any plants, the entire b complex is hard to get from plants. zinc and copper also, selenium, probably a few Im forgetting
reminder to vegangays that oysters are a megadose of the b12, iron, copper, and zinc you are surely deficient in and they don't have brains or even much of a nervous system whatsoever so it's very unlikely they feel anything
The entire movement is founded upon meat = bad.
You cannot convince a vegan there are degrees of evil, even as they buy phones made by Chinese slaves, use rare metals mined by African child soldiers, apply makeup made out of Korean baby foreskins, and jet around adding CO2 to the atmosphere, and think plastics and modern fabrics are great when they're destroying life all over the planet.
They also don't care about health or diet... otherwise they'd not be vegans in the first place.
The ones in the US I imagine are considerably wealthier than in India itself. I don’t have to explain why having a good vegan diet doesn’t really matter that much in a filthy overpopulated slum where people are still starving.
1 week ago
Anonymous
vegans in USA are a tiny minority
veganism is mainly religious thing
there isn't a logical argument other than health benefits to be vegan and there are only health benefits if you're rich enough to eat nutritious foods that are vegan
1 week ago
Anonymous
You try telling a vegan that and they’ll flip their shit. The amount of victimization they exhibit towards anyone who questions their lifestyle and/or won’t participate in it is insane. They assume everyone thinks they’re a bunch of seething moralistic demagogues, get angry at the assumption, and end up proving themselves right.
1 week ago
Anonymous
The health benefits are pure marketing. Vegans are the most sickly people in the world, and you can see the misery in their eyes, and the thinness in their skin. It is simple masochism, nothing more.
The longest living population in Europe eats piglets every day.
The US has a problem where all its food is hydrogenated, chemically preserved, and injected with enough corn syrup to make a blue whale diabetic. This paired with a chemical wienertail crossfit culture, and a fatarse Homer Simpson culture, means neither the healthy nor the unhealthy can exercise correctly.
>longest living >in the US
Americans eat nothing but goyslop: soi, seed oil, corn syrup and squares of orange plastic they call cheese. Being healthy in Americaeans weighing less than 400lb and only having one heart attack by the age of 40.
>You cannot convince a vegan there are degrees of evil
actually many vegans will concede that hunting your own food is more ethical than buying from factory farms. Meat eaters are always the ones who come off as most moronic in these debates cause their moral systems are nonsensical, they will denounce eating dogs and beastiality while paying someone to torture and kill animals for their tastebuds
>they will denounce eating dogs and beastiality while paying someone to torture and kill animals for their tastebuds
Ahh yes the moral equivalency of not eating dogs and fricking animals is the same. Holy frick you’re a moron and you’re not anywhere near as intelligent as you like to pretend to be.
>You cannot convince a vegan there are degrees of evil
actually many vegans will concede that hunting your own food is more ethical than buying from factory farms. Meat eaters are always the ones who come off as most moronic in these debates cause their moral systems are nonsensical, they will denounce eating dogs and beastiality while paying someone to torture and kill animals for their tastebuds
When I was in college I'd frequently overhear arguments from vegans on campus. I would walk over and declare, "Morals are a spook" and walk away.
>causes suffering to the fetus
Bruh no it really doesn't the part of the brain that forms memory doesn't work at all so there's no cognizance or experience.
not all vegans are leftists, many people are vegetarian/vegan for religious reasons and have the same view of abortion as you do. Also pro-abortion vegans having contradictory political views has nothing to do with the validity of their views in regards to animal treatment.
I believe it is tbqh. You need to eat a frick ton of red meat to get enough bioavailable iron. In fact it has made me confused about what our ancestral diet even was, because it's nearly impossible to get your iron without eating 1kg of beef every day or something like osyters. Maybe drinking fresh blood was common or something
>I just think everyone is also nutrient deficient
Maybe, but it’s so inconsequential in the grand scheme of things.
1 week ago
Anonymous
It can ruin your life, there are people who were 'depressed' for decades and then took an iron supplement and got better. It's more common with women because of their menstrual bleeding.
And there's tons of vitamins and minerals, it's not just iron
Literally just look up how much iron you need a day, and then look up how bioavailable different types of iron are. To hit the daily recommended amount you straight up have to eat giant amounts of red meat or things like oysters.
people pushing the health angle is one thing, but for people concerned about the ethics of killing animals i like to remind them that every single produce farm is patrolled by several dozen men armed with ar-15s that kill thousands of boar, foxes, deer, possums, squirrels, hogs, coyotes, rabbits, groundhogs, beavers, prairie dogs, snakes, bears, nutria, and even feral cats and dogs. If they didn't do this the animals would completely devour tens of thousands of acres worth of farmland in a matter of years, and then eat their young when the population they surged to became unsustainable.
If the goal of vegans or animal rights activists or whatever is to reduce unnecessary harm then it seems basically commonsense that what you described is just an unfortunate, but necessary, matter of trading some more important lives for other lives. Two wrongs don't make a right, basically.
The only issue would bethose people that think animals and humans are literally equal in terms of value, in which case they have some warped and completely morally impractical values imo
>every single produce farm is patrolled by several dozen men armed with ar-15s that kill thousands of boar, foxes, deer, possums, squirrels
Is this really a thing? Are there PMCs that compete for farm contracts? Full time mercs that trophy hunt farm perimeters 24/7?
It's very real and can make you good money if you're good at it. They're not PMCs strictly speaking but a hunting version, IPM (integrated pest management) frims sometimes called "wildlife management services" or things like that.
There are quite a few of them and they aren't just hired out by farms. I used make tons of money just murdering coyotes in virginia. Coyotes are an extremely problematic species. They frick like crazy, eat anything, they're massive buttholes, and aren't afraid of human areas. They're meant to live in the harsh conditions of the rocky desert and are invasive everywhere else. We were basically paid to go deep into the virginia wilderness and just kill as many as we could, they use the pelts and meet as well but the main thing was just thinning their numbers out.
Hogs are also a big problem in parts of the country and are very dangerous, imagine a bunch of dogs running towards you with knives stuck to their faces.
People don't realize it because we all live in population centers but massive swathes of the country are still thick wilderness.
>I used make tons of money just murdering coyotes in virginia
How much? Paid per coyote? See any wolves? Do you camp out for weeks? Is their an alpha coyote killer known to your subculture? >Hogs are also a big problem
Yeah, saw headlines. Rogan talks about it all the time. But it's worsening. Especially Florida? What do you do with the hog carcasses? Pet food?
They're not PMCs but the need and the money they pay is real. Ag losses to hostile encroachment is in the billions every year. Game hunters can make 150k-250k in 3 or 4 months. You're working in below freezing conditions from dusk til dawn but the money is real.
It’s literally a spook farmers make up to justify being moronic. Boars in texas have to be stopped because they’re insane but in normal places farmers b***h and moan about wolves being introduced back into the wild and how spooky that is for their herd. Ignoring reality because right wing trump morons are allergic to facts. In Colorado wild wolves have killed less than 7 livestock animals.
wolves are not the proble, the LACK of wolves has led to a massive flux of coyotes which are a huge problem. don't open your fricking yapper about things you know nothing about kid
honestly vegans do not has any impact on changing factory farming, not to mention (outside of Hindus who don't eat meat but still manage ot abuse animals) it's mainly a white people things; litterely billions of people eat meat and will continue doing so and those people are being shipped into the West everyday
If vegans want animal rights they should be white nationalists
>farm animals! >they're cute and cuddly to begin with, you can even pet them! >they're really tasty when mature! You don't even have to see them decline in old age! >and the best part is if you think you have to justify it, look at their ugly, inhuman eyes, and test how fricking stupid they are when it comes to problem solving and communication, let alone the fact that they can't go to school to learn maths, languages or home economics
Don't worry, OP. I'll just eat your share of meat, and you can eat my cum out of your girlfriend's pussy when she gets home from "yoga" or whatever. The circle of life continues or whatever.
I'll eat chickens, knowing how horrible they're treated but chickens are mostly just dumb birds without much mental capacity. Still horrible how they're treated.
But cows and pigs I can't eat, I've just seen the disgusting conditions we keep them in and it's just deplorable especially on pigs. Pigs kept in cages where they cannot even fricking move just force fed shitting on themselves every day in the most unsanitary conditions imaginable. Then there's veal, slaughtering chained up baby fricking infant cows for their meat is beyond fricked, a little baby that never even got a chance to be in a field eating grass or even just outside in general. It's evil.
Seafood is fine to me at least crustaceans and mollusks are, fish are exploited and overfished so I'm not really ok with that unless its some kind of sustainable catch.
But mostly all I eat meat wise is chicken, turkey and crawfish and that's about it.
>Then there's veal, slaughtering chained up baby fricking infant cows for their meat is beyond fricked
Anon can you share the history of this practice? Because think of the people who pioneered this practice of eating infants of other species. Often treating it as a delicacy. Do you think there was ever crossover amongst head of this practice and industry with people who murdered and ate children and human infants?
What percentage of people who worked as butchers or on killing floors became murderers? Any studies? The first Texas Chainsaw Massacre alludes to this with the hitchhiker
I just accept the sinfulness and evil of eating beef and pork. I could give up pork but I just enjoy beef too much. We all have our boundaries, I don't want to eat whale/dolphin/octopus cuz I think they're smart, but I am sure a pig might be as smart or smarter.
I risk sounding like Max Stirner, but the obsession with virtuousness can be taken too far. Not that no-animal-eating is Jain territory, but it can be. And strip jainism of its eastern mysticism and you would get the gaygiest most ridiculous vegan homosexualry you could ever imagine. "Hand wringing over taking antibiotics because it kills bacteria" territory, "Sweep grass in front of you lest you step on a bug" territory. Cover your mouth so you don't accidentally swallow a fly territory. Just absolute fricking nutjobs who think reality is, could ever be, or should be this lovey dovey nothing-suffers-ever existence. Plenty of daylight between that and randian "Nothing matters kill or be killed mad max rules" we can live in.
Then you get the moron here who does legit strawman trolling with "If you're okay with an animal suffering you're okay with all animals suffering". Not all animals are created equal and it's weird species communism to suggest otherwise. Dog's life is worth more than a cow. Deal with it.
>Then there's veal, slaughtering chained up baby fricking infant cows for their meat is beyond fricked
Anon can you share the history of this practice? Because think of the people who pioneered this practice of eating infants of other species. Often treating it as a delicacy. Do you think there was ever crossover amongst head of this practice and industry with people who murdered and ate children and human infants?
What percentage of people who worked as butchers or on killing floors became murderers? Any studies? The first Texas Chainsaw Massacre alludes to this with the hitchhiker
There's a high rate of mental disorders from butchery work as I understand it. Not that they become murders but being knee deep in gore and having an animal that was nuzzling you now being ripped up isn't going to go over well in your emotions.
human style fishing with a pole is sustainable, not big ass trawl fishing, and even fishing the a pole by enough people can devastate the biodiversity of a lake
this isnt even to mention that in most places in the us there is so much mercury in the water, the FDA recommends people not to eat more than one caught fish a week or some shit like that
imo, the easiest way to be a homosexual vegan is to have chickens and just eat a shit ton of eggs, have cows you milk only during pregnancy, and then eat the chickens and chickens that die of old age, i guess. they'd taste like shit though.
>homosexual vegan
Pesco-Pollo-Vegetarian seems like the healthiest option to me. Fish, poultry, throw in lacto stuff and eggs. None of the higher mammals.
>But cows and pigs I can't eat, I've just seen the disgusting conditions we keep them in and it's just deplorable especially on pigs. Pigs kept in cages where they cannot even fricking move just force fed shitting on themselves every day in the most unsanitary conditions imaginable. Then there's veal, slaughtering chained up baby fricking infant cows for their meat is beyond fricked, a little baby that never even got a chance to be in a field eating grass or even just outside in general. It's evil.
Words words words. Haitians are eating eachother alive as we speak. This means nothing.
What I’m saying is that your sob story means nothing. Haitians are currently eating eachother alive and it is a non-issue for me. If I don’t care about the suffering of my fellow humans, why would I care about some dumb glassy eyed animal?
There is no way to justify eating meat in the modern age.
If you think harming or killing animals unnecessarily is wrong, then you can't justify eating meat. Because we no longer need to eat animals to survive, so we are harming them unnecessarily by eating them since there are plenty of non-animal alternatives.
If you think harming or killing animals unnecessarily is not wrong, now you have to defend bestiality, people who abuse or torture animals for fun, etc. You have to defend someone beating a puppy to death with a brick
It is infallible. Literally no one can refute it >Do you think it's okay to harm animals unnecessarily? >No, I don't like harming animals unnecessarily >So then why do you eat meat? We don't need to eat animals to survive anymore, aren't you harming them unnecessarily by eating meat then? >...
Literally no one can beat this argument
>You cannot convince a vegan there are degrees of evil
actually many vegans will concede that hunting your own food is more ethical than buying from factory farms. Meat eaters are always the ones who come off as most moronic in these debates cause their moral systems are nonsensical, they will denounce eating dogs and beastiality while paying someone to torture and kill animals for their tastebuds
Enjoy your heart disease fatass
You are legit moronic. Millions die from heart attacks every year.
There is no way to justify eating meat in the modern age.
If you think harming or killing animals unnecessarily is wrong, then you can't justify eating meat. Because we no longer need to eat animals to survive, so we are harming them unnecessarily by eating them since there are plenty of non-animal alternatives.
If you think harming or killing animals unnecessarily is not wrong, now you have to defend bestiality, people who abuse or torture animals for fun, etc. You have to defend someone beating a puppy to death with a brick
there's nothing to refute. you buy into the bullshit idea that it's possible to be healthy without animal protein, which it isn't. your brain is starved of vital nutrients and isn't working properly and as a result you're too stupid to realize it isn't working properly. it's like arguing with an alcoholic
1 week ago
Anonymous
Yeah it is, all animal protein can be substituted by protein from non-animal sources, there's nothing inherently magical about animal protein
Virtually all foods contain amino acids, if you want a "complete protein" all you need to eat is rice and beans or a peanut butter sandwich
1 week ago
Anonymous
>all you need to eat is rice and beans or a peanut butter sandwich
1 week ago
Anonymous
not all amino acids are the same, and the amino acids that plants predominantly rely upon are not the same that humans rely upon.
you know that plants and humans are separated by an entire taxonomic kingdom, right?
but go ahead and try to just eat rice and peanut butter for 20 years for your protein and go ahead and see how you feel
1 week ago
Anonymous
What do you mean by "not all amino acids are the same"
Explain exactly what amino acids in animal protein can't be found anywhere else or from a non-animal source. Protip: you won't be able to, because you're moronic
1 week ago
Anonymous
>what do you mean by not all amino acids are the same
i mean, literally, there are different kinds of amino acids, as in, not all amino acids are the same
since you are moronic i used google and got the first google image for you to look at. while on google, you can then also include search terms for 'amino acids low in vegan diets'
you can then easily find the amino acids in question. it took me two seconds to see two top hits of lysine and methionine.
you can also take the time to reread my post where i said "predominantly" to understand that you don't need complete absence of an amino acid type to become deficient in it
1 week ago
Anonymous
You literally just posted a random picture you found online, that doesn't even explain your argument. It doesn't say any amino acids vegans don't have, it just lists 20 of them
The reason why you are moronic, is that our body synthesizes most amino acids. There are only 9 that are body can't normally synthesize without eating something - these are the 9 essential amino acids. Your own picture also confirms this
However, virtually all foods have these amino acids, to varying degrees. You can obtain all 9 of them from eating rice and beans or a peanut butter sandwich. You don't need to eat meat to obtain these amino acids and they do not exclusively come from meat
1 week ago
Anonymous
it lists '20' because there are only 20 amino acids that human beings actually use to make proteins. so its not 'just' 20.
bro you need to reread my post, i literally told you that just a cursory google search says lysine and methionine, which are 'essential', are low some vegan diets.
i also will repeat myself one last time, that i didn't say they are 'not present', but low. this means as a vegan, you need to eat a wide variety of shit and be aware of these, and other, nutrition deficiencies to avoid them creating health problems for you, or end up like one of the many vegan ghouls you see on youtube.
if you eat fricking only peanut butter and rice, you will NOT have a proper balance of amino acids, you are not this fricking moronic, shut the frick up
one of these things feeds me, the other does not. you can't replace meat with plants, the fact that you're okay with starving yourself doesn't change that
1 week ago
Anonymous
But you don't need to eat animals to be fed. You can be fed by non-animal sources >Yeah I like beating this puppy with a brick, because that pleases me
1 week ago
Anonymous
This guy 100% eats meat and is shitposting to make veganism look even more moronic lmao. Based carnivore shitposter.
1 week ago
Anonymous
Nah, i know enough vegans in real life to know this is exactly how insufferable they are. They're literally in a constant state of nutrient deficiency which makes them irritable and whiney like an underfed child.
1 week ago
Anonymous
please shut the frick up and stop snitching on me
1 week ago
Anonymous
I need animals to be fed. I've tried eating vegetarian and it zapps my energy level by at least 40%. Maybe your job involves you sitting on your ass all day and if shoving plants down your throat gives you what you need to do that good for you. I can tell you it's not the same thing.
human style fishing with a pole is sustainable, not big ass trawl fishing, and even fishing the a pole by enough people can devastate the biodiversity of a lake
this isnt even to mention that in most places in the us there is so much mercury in the water, the FDA recommends people not to eat more than one caught fish a week or some shit like that
imo, the easiest way to be a homosexual vegan is to have chickens and just eat a shit ton of eggs, have cows you milk only during pregnancy, and then eat the chickens and chickens that die of old age, i guess. they'd taste like shit though.
You should have to hunt and gut and clean an animal yourself to be able to have the reward of eating meat. Buying meat from the grocery store so you can pretend that the grotesque practices of the meat industry aren't happening is peak dystopia.
You can shoot them with a laser beam, it doesn't matter. The point is you have to take a knife and gut the animal, clean it, and pack the meat out. That's what you should have to do to be able to eat meat. Everyone else that don't kill animals themselves can be fricking vegans.
>The point is you have to take a knife and gut the animal, clean it, and pack the meat out.
The main obstacle here would unironically just be laziness. People cut up meat all the time, butchers actually disembowel animals, and people who work at farms quickly habituate to it.
Yes, some people live this way, and some people are used to it because of their jobs. I'm in awe that you are focusing on that instead of the vast majority of Americans who just go to the grocery store and buy unethically mass-produced meat. For the majority, it would be a wake up call.
I don't think people even give a frick about ethics when their fellow humans are concerned, let alone when it's animals
1 week ago
Anonymous
Right, hence my rhetorical scenario where you would be forced to get dirty and kill an animal yourself if you want to eat meat vs going to the grocery store.
1 week ago
Anonymous
why, you'd feel better about cruelty if the torturers get dirty?
1 week ago
Anonymous
Well it wouldn't be cruel to hunt an animal and kill it mercifully and put every part of it to use and to personally pay your respect to it. That's why I propose it.
Ok then don’t complain if a more civilized group of people or aliens say they’ll eat you then.
C'est la vie
1 week ago
Anonymous
You want a perfect world but animals in the wild also suffer immensely as parasites eat their eyes and liver out while they suffocate because their lungs have collapsed.
1 week ago
Anonymous
We didn't systematically put parasites in them and raise them from birth with the specific plan to put parasites in them, so that's all completely different. Such is life. Life is pain, but we don't need to inflict it unnecessarily.
1 week ago
Anonymous
Maybe you should consider that 'such are humans', we are just wilderness too
1 week ago
Anonymous
But we can choose. We aren't just beasts. I mean, I think we are beasts, we are just animals, but we can choose. Does that not innately come with some weight? Some gravitas? We can decide what to do. Doesn't that feel like a test?
1 week ago
Anonymous
but your own appraisal of humanity clearly indicates that we are not moral agents going towards some good. So why do you expect it?
1 week ago
Anonymous
>So why do you expect it?
Because I have faith. There is a very real war between good and evil, and it rages in your heart and mind all the time. I believe the good can win, with a little help and maybe a good example. I try to be one of those example as much as I can.
1 week ago
Anonymous
how does this play out in your mind? humanity wakes up one day and starts to really care and we stop hurting each other and animals?
1 week ago
Anonymous
Game theory. Look up the hunters dilemma. There are simulations you can watch where a group of selfish people all become cooperative just by ONE person starting as cooperative. It's not just some hippy shit, it's real. We can change the world. You just have to be willing to eat a loss here and there and show people what is the right thing to do.
1 week ago
Anonymous
are there any examples of it happening? are there even theoretical circumstances in which it makes sense?
1 week ago
Anonymous
>are there even theoretical circumstances in which it makes sense?
Yes, look up what i said. Game theory and "stag hunt." As for real world examples, yes, in the crypto world there were examples of this, where people would hold coins and avoid short term gain because they learned that avoiding short term gain was the way for everyone in the system to make the most money. They learned to cooperate and not stab each other in the back and they made more money because of it.
Vegans are noticeably sexier than non-vegans.
only the woman vegan men are p*ssies
What is in meat besides protein and iron that vegans don't get? (since theres protein and iron in many other things)
b12 is the big one. b12 is literally not in any plants, the entire b complex is hard to get from plants. zinc and copper also, selenium, probably a few Im forgetting
lel
reminder to vegangays that oysters are a megadose of the b12, iron, copper, and zinc you are surely deficient in and they don't have brains or even much of a nervous system whatsoever so it's very unlikely they feel anything
The entire movement is founded upon meat = bad.
You cannot convince a vegan there are degrees of evil, even as they buy phones made by Chinese slaves, use rare metals mined by African child soldiers, apply makeup made out of Korean baby foreskins, and jet around adding CO2 to the atmosphere, and think plastics and modern fabrics are great when they're destroying life all over the planet.
They also don't care about health or diet... otherwise they'd not be vegans in the first place.
Enjoy your heart disease fatass
>They also don't care about health or diet... otherwise they'd not be vegans in the first place.
The longest living population in the US is vegan.
That might be due to the fact that the vast majority of vegans are rich, white people with access to good healthcare and food.
the vast VAST majority of vegans are indians who are super ugly
don't forget the smell
The ones in the US I imagine are considerably wealthier than in India itself. I don’t have to explain why having a good vegan diet doesn’t really matter that much in a filthy overpopulated slum where people are still starving.
vegans in USA are a tiny minority
veganism is mainly religious thing
there isn't a logical argument other than health benefits to be vegan and there are only health benefits if you're rich enough to eat nutritious foods that are vegan
You try telling a vegan that and they’ll flip their shit. The amount of victimization they exhibit towards anyone who questions their lifestyle and/or won’t participate in it is insane. They assume everyone thinks they’re a bunch of seething moralistic demagogues, get angry at the assumption, and end up proving themselves right.
The health benefits are pure marketing. Vegans are the most sickly people in the world, and you can see the misery in their eyes, and the thinness in their skin. It is simple masochism, nothing more.
The longest living population in Europe eats piglets every day.
The US has a problem where all its food is hydrogenated, chemically preserved, and injected with enough corn syrup to make a blue whale diabetic. This paired with a chemical wienertail crossfit culture, and a fatarse Homer Simpson culture, means neither the healthy nor the unhealthy can exercise correctly.
>The longest living population in Europe eats piglets every day.
Who?
Proofs
>Proofs
Adventist health study 2
>longest living
>in the US
Americans eat nothing but goyslop: soi, seed oil, corn syrup and squares of orange plastic they call cheese. Being healthy in Americaeans weighing less than 400lb and only having one heart attack by the age of 40.
>You cannot convince a vegan there are degrees of evil
actually many vegans will concede that hunting your own food is more ethical than buying from factory farms. Meat eaters are always the ones who come off as most moronic in these debates cause their moral systems are nonsensical, they will denounce eating dogs and beastiality while paying someone to torture and kill animals for their tastebuds
>they will denounce eating dogs and beastiality while paying someone to torture and kill animals for their tastebuds
Ahh yes the moral equivalency of not eating dogs and fricking animals is the same. Holy frick you’re a moron and you’re not anywhere near as intelligent as you like to pretend to be.
When I was in college I'd frequently overhear arguments from vegans on campus. I would walk over and declare, "Morals are a spook" and walk away.
Didn't Hitler, a vegan, like this author?
No you’re thinking of Nietzsche.
wow you really gottem
i'm sure most of them support abortion too
even if you accept the moral framework as valid it's not contradictory since abortion doesn't cause suffering but rather prevents it
i mean it causes suffering to the fetus obviously, a vegan would just say it's not sentient so who cares
>causes suffering to the fetus
Bruh no it really doesn't the part of the brain that forms memory doesn't work at all so there's no cognizance or experience.
not all vegans are leftists, many people are vegetarian/vegan for religious reasons and have the same view of abortion as you do. Also pro-abortion vegans having contradictory political views has nothing to do with the validity of their views in regards to animal treatment.
>most vegans support abortion
This can't be true?
Abortion is perfectly defensible under a vegan framework, because a fetus isn't sentient and has never acquired sentience
Ah yes, the pressing concern of our age, iron deficiency.
I believe it is tbqh. You need to eat a frick ton of red meat to get enough bioavailable iron. In fact it has made me confused about what our ancestral diet even was, because it's nearly impossible to get your iron without eating 1kg of beef every day or something like osyters. Maybe drinking fresh blood was common or something
You are legit moronic. Millions die from heart attacks every year.
Fat, sedentary people are also a problem. I just think everyone is also nutrient deficient
>I just think everyone is also nutrient deficient
Maybe, but it’s so inconsequential in the grand scheme of things.
It can ruin your life, there are people who were 'depressed' for decades and then took an iron supplement and got better. It's more common with women because of their menstrual bleeding.
And there's tons of vitamins and minerals, it's not just iron
Identified as Joe Rogan. sounds exactly what that moron would say
Literally just look up how much iron you need a day, and then look up how bioavailable different types of iron are. To hit the daily recommended amount you straight up have to eat giant amounts of red meat or things like oysters.
or just get b12 from supplements like non-vegans do via a proxy animals
What if you just eat a little bit of meat
people pushing the health angle is one thing, but for people concerned about the ethics of killing animals i like to remind them that every single produce farm is patrolled by several dozen men armed with ar-15s that kill thousands of boar, foxes, deer, possums, squirrels, hogs, coyotes, rabbits, groundhogs, beavers, prairie dogs, snakes, bears, nutria, and even feral cats and dogs. If they didn't do this the animals would completely devour tens of thousands of acres worth of farmland in a matter of years, and then eat their young when the population they surged to became unsustainable.
my uncles onion farm drops a nuke every year as part of the harvest process
If the goal of vegans or animal rights activists or whatever is to reduce unnecessary harm then it seems basically commonsense that what you described is just an unfortunate, but necessary, matter of trading some more important lives for other lives. Two wrongs don't make a right, basically.
The only issue would bethose people that think animals and humans are literally equal in terms of value, in which case they have some warped and completely morally impractical values imo
animals have zero rights because they can't operate firearms
simple as
this sounds like something that would be in a call of duty death screen
>every single produce farm is patrolled by several dozen men armed with ar-15s that kill thousands of boar, foxes, deer, possums, squirrels
Is this really a thing? Are there PMCs that compete for farm contracts? Full time mercs that trophy hunt farm perimeters 24/7?
It's very real and can make you good money if you're good at it. They're not PMCs strictly speaking but a hunting version, IPM (integrated pest management) frims sometimes called "wildlife management services" or things like that.
There are quite a few of them and they aren't just hired out by farms. I used make tons of money just murdering coyotes in virginia. Coyotes are an extremely problematic species. They frick like crazy, eat anything, they're massive buttholes, and aren't afraid of human areas. They're meant to live in the harsh conditions of the rocky desert and are invasive everywhere else. We were basically paid to go deep into the virginia wilderness and just kill as many as we could, they use the pelts and meet as well but the main thing was just thinning their numbers out.
Hogs are also a big problem in parts of the country and are very dangerous, imagine a bunch of dogs running towards you with knives stuck to their faces.
People don't realize it because we all live in population centers but massive swathes of the country are still thick wilderness.
>I used make tons of money just murdering coyotes in virginia
How much? Paid per coyote? See any wolves? Do you camp out for weeks? Is their an alpha coyote killer known to your subculture?
>Hogs are also a big problem
Yeah, saw headlines. Rogan talks about it all the time. But it's worsening. Especially Florida? What do you do with the hog carcasses? Pet food?
They're not PMCs but the need and the money they pay is real. Ag losses to hostile encroachment is in the billions every year. Game hunters can make 150k-250k in 3 or 4 months. You're working in below freezing conditions from dusk til dawn but the money is real.
It’s literally a spook farmers make up to justify being moronic. Boars in texas have to be stopped because they’re insane but in normal places farmers b***h and moan about wolves being introduced back into the wild and how spooky that is for their herd. Ignoring reality because right wing trump morons are allergic to facts. In Colorado wild wolves have killed less than 7 livestock animals.
wolves are not the proble, the LACK of wolves has led to a massive flux of coyotes which are a huge problem. don't open your fricking yapper about things you know nothing about kid
>whiny little b***h hillbilly babbling like he’s intelligent
It’s cute when you idiots role play as people.
honestly vegans do not has any impact on changing factory farming, not to mention (outside of Hindus who don't eat meat but still manage ot abuse animals) it's mainly a white people things; litterely billions of people eat meat and will continue doing so and those people are being shipped into the West everyday
If vegans want animal rights they should be white nationalists
i'm a vegan white nationalist, what now
I mean I've watched videos of factory farming and don't see why it would change opinion on eating meat
i'd eat people if they were legal
I hope that McWhopper was worth it
Anon do you think this would change my mind? I've butchered cuter animals before. Touch grass city slicker.
?
>farm animals!
>they're cute and cuddly to begin with, you can even pet them!
>they're really tasty when mature! You don't even have to see them decline in old age!
>and the best part is if you think you have to justify it, look at their ugly, inhuman eyes, and test how fricking stupid they are when it comes to problem solving and communication, let alone the fact that they can't go to school to learn maths, languages or home economics
This movie makes Americans piss and shit themselves in a gravy induced sweaty rage.
They don't eat meat in your country?
But what would happen to cows if we never ate them? It'd be chaos.
endargement and zoos
That's a big ass zoo. Call it a moo zoo.
I mean we already put elephants in there
Ask Larry Fink, Klaus Schwab, and Joaquin Phoenixberg
good. more meat for me.
Poor stinking maggot cares about those animals eh? Wanna chew on your filthy little veggies and roots and leaves eh? More flesh for me then!
Don't worry, OP. I'll just eat your share of meat, and you can eat my cum out of your girlfriend's pussy when she gets home from "yoga" or whatever. The circle of life continues or whatever.
Is cum vegan though?
only if the person is consenting
so if the OP consents to another man eating his cum (homosexual) then yes, it is indeed vegan-safe
I'll eat chickens, knowing how horrible they're treated but chickens are mostly just dumb birds without much mental capacity. Still horrible how they're treated.
But cows and pigs I can't eat, I've just seen the disgusting conditions we keep them in and it's just deplorable especially on pigs. Pigs kept in cages where they cannot even fricking move just force fed shitting on themselves every day in the most unsanitary conditions imaginable. Then there's veal, slaughtering chained up baby fricking infant cows for their meat is beyond fricked, a little baby that never even got a chance to be in a field eating grass or even just outside in general. It's evil.
Seafood is fine to me at least crustaceans and mollusks are, fish are exploited and overfished so I'm not really ok with that unless its some kind of sustainable catch.
But mostly all I eat meat wise is chicken, turkey and crawfish and that's about it.
>Then there's veal, slaughtering chained up baby fricking infant cows for their meat is beyond fricked
Anon can you share the history of this practice? Because think of the people who pioneered this practice of eating infants of other species. Often treating it as a delicacy. Do you think there was ever crossover amongst head of this practice and industry with people who murdered and ate children and human infants?
What percentage of people who worked as butchers or on killing floors became murderers? Any studies? The first Texas Chainsaw Massacre alludes to this with the hitchhiker
I just accept the sinfulness and evil of eating beef and pork. I could give up pork but I just enjoy beef too much. We all have our boundaries, I don't want to eat whale/dolphin/octopus cuz I think they're smart, but I am sure a pig might be as smart or smarter.
I risk sounding like Max Stirner, but the obsession with virtuousness can be taken too far. Not that no-animal-eating is Jain territory, but it can be. And strip jainism of its eastern mysticism and you would get the gaygiest most ridiculous vegan homosexualry you could ever imagine. "Hand wringing over taking antibiotics because it kills bacteria" territory, "Sweep grass in front of you lest you step on a bug" territory. Cover your mouth so you don't accidentally swallow a fly territory. Just absolute fricking nutjobs who think reality is, could ever be, or should be this lovey dovey nothing-suffers-ever existence. Plenty of daylight between that and randian "Nothing matters kill or be killed mad max rules" we can live in.
Then you get the moron here who does legit strawman trolling with "If you're okay with an animal suffering you're okay with all animals suffering". Not all animals are created equal and it's weird species communism to suggest otherwise. Dog's life is worth more than a cow. Deal with it.
There's a high rate of mental disorders from butchery work as I understand it. Not that they become murders but being knee deep in gore and having an animal that was nuzzling you now being ripped up isn't going to go over well in your emotions.
>homosexual vegan
Pesco-Pollo-Vegetarian seems like the healthiest option to me. Fish, poultry, throw in lacto stuff and eggs. None of the higher mammals.
Chicken is the worst. Maybe not for meat, but egg factories are satanic.
>But cows and pigs I can't eat, I've just seen the disgusting conditions we keep them in and it's just deplorable especially on pigs. Pigs kept in cages where they cannot even fricking move just force fed shitting on themselves every day in the most unsanitary conditions imaginable. Then there's veal, slaughtering chained up baby fricking infant cows for their meat is beyond fricked, a little baby that never even got a chance to be in a field eating grass or even just outside in general. It's evil.
Words words words. Haitians are eating eachother alive as we speak. This means nothing.
>greentexts a whole paragraph
>only response is a non-sequitur
moron.
What I’m saying is that your sob story means nothing. Haitians are currently eating eachother alive and it is a non-issue for me. If I don’t care about the suffering of my fellow humans, why would I care about some dumb glassy eyed animal?
There is no way to justify eating meat in the modern age.
If you think harming or killing animals unnecessarily is wrong, then you can't justify eating meat. Because we no longer need to eat animals to survive, so we are harming them unnecessarily by eating them since there are plenty of non-animal alternatives.
If you think harming or killing animals unnecessarily is not wrong, now you have to defend bestiality, people who abuse or torture animals for fun, etc. You have to defend someone beating a puppy to death with a brick
>If you think harming or killing animals unnecessarily is not wrong, now you have to defend bestiality
and?
meat taste good so me eat, if meat banned i gobble you up too
The infallible logic of the sѹboy...
It is infallible. Literally no one can refute it
>Do you think it's okay to harm animals unnecessarily?
>No, I don't like harming animals unnecessarily
>So then why do you eat meat? We don't need to eat animals to survive anymore, aren't you harming them unnecessarily by eating meat then?
>...
Literally no one can beat this argument
>still can't refute it
HAHAHAHAHAHA
there's nothing to refute. you buy into the bullshit idea that it's possible to be healthy without animal protein, which it isn't. your brain is starved of vital nutrients and isn't working properly and as a result you're too stupid to realize it isn't working properly. it's like arguing with an alcoholic
Yeah it is, all animal protein can be substituted by protein from non-animal sources, there's nothing inherently magical about animal protein
Virtually all foods contain amino acids, if you want a "complete protein" all you need to eat is rice and beans or a peanut butter sandwich
>all you need to eat is rice and beans or a peanut butter sandwich
not all amino acids are the same, and the amino acids that plants predominantly rely upon are not the same that humans rely upon.
you know that plants and humans are separated by an entire taxonomic kingdom, right?
but go ahead and try to just eat rice and peanut butter for 20 years for your protein and go ahead and see how you feel
What do you mean by "not all amino acids are the same"
Explain exactly what amino acids in animal protein can't be found anywhere else or from a non-animal source. Protip: you won't be able to, because you're moronic
>what do you mean by not all amino acids are the same
i mean, literally, there are different kinds of amino acids, as in, not all amino acids are the same
since you are moronic i used google and got the first google image for you to look at. while on google, you can then also include search terms for 'amino acids low in vegan diets'
you can then easily find the amino acids in question. it took me two seconds to see two top hits of lysine and methionine.
you can also take the time to reread my post where i said "predominantly" to understand that you don't need complete absence of an amino acid type to become deficient in it
You literally just posted a random picture you found online, that doesn't even explain your argument. It doesn't say any amino acids vegans don't have, it just lists 20 of them
The reason why you are moronic, is that our body synthesizes most amino acids. There are only 9 that are body can't normally synthesize without eating something - these are the 9 essential amino acids. Your own picture also confirms this
However, virtually all foods have these amino acids, to varying degrees. You can obtain all 9 of them from eating rice and beans or a peanut butter sandwich. You don't need to eat meat to obtain these amino acids and they do not exclusively come from meat
it lists '20' because there are only 20 amino acids that human beings actually use to make proteins. so its not 'just' 20.
bro you need to reread my post, i literally told you that just a cursory google search says lysine and methionine, which are 'essential', are low some vegan diets.
i also will repeat myself one last time, that i didn't say they are 'not present', but low. this means as a vegan, you need to eat a wide variety of shit and be aware of these, and other, nutrition deficiencies to avoid them creating health problems for you, or end up like one of the many vegan ghouls you see on youtube.
if you eat fricking only peanut butter and rice, you will NOT have a proper balance of amino acids, you are not this fricking moronic, shut the frick up
I didn't harm them, someone else did.
>I didn't harm them I just paid someone else to do it
>I don't like harming animals unnecessarily, but I like eating chicken and beef more than I dislike animals being hurt.
Boom. You can form whatever opinion of me you want, that wasn't part of the argument. I win.
So if someone beats a stray dog with a brick, you're perfectly fine with that?
If your answer is no, why are you fine with chickens and cows being harmed unnecessarily, but then suddenly draw the line at dogs
You picked the wrong one, fricko. I have no problem with Chinese eating dogs. It's just meat. Eat a horse, a cat, whatever you want.
one of these things feeds me, the other does not. you can't replace meat with plants, the fact that you're okay with starving yourself doesn't change that
But you don't need to eat animals to be fed. You can be fed by non-animal sources
>Yeah I like beating this puppy with a brick, because that pleases me
This guy 100% eats meat and is shitposting to make veganism look even more moronic lmao. Based carnivore shitposter.
Nah, i know enough vegans in real life to know this is exactly how insufferable they are. They're literally in a constant state of nutrient deficiency which makes them irritable and whiney like an underfed child.
please shut the frick up and stop snitching on me
I need animals to be fed. I've tried eating vegetarian and it zapps my energy level by at least 40%. Maybe your job involves you sitting on your ass all day and if shoving plants down your throat gives you what you need to do that good for you. I can tell you it's not the same thing.
Ok then don’t complain if a more civilized group of people or aliens say they’ll eat you then.
>We don't need to eat animals to survive anymore
yes we do
>>Do you think it's okay to harm animals unnecessarily?
>No
Uh oh vegan sisters… what’s are counter?
>You have to defend someone beating a puppy to death with a brick
as long as they eat it after it's fine
What if you just go fishing? Isn't that what most humans have been doing for millenia?
fish smells like piss
Yet it has all the nutrients you'd find in other meats and is very easy to obtain sustainably.
>and is very easy to obtain sustainably.
I live in the desert
Damn bro sucks to suck huh try not to dehydrate
human style fishing with a pole is sustainable, not big ass trawl fishing, and even fishing the a pole by enough people can devastate the biodiversity of a lake
this isnt even to mention that in most places in the us there is so much mercury in the water, the FDA recommends people not to eat more than one caught fish a week or some shit like that
imo, the easiest way to be a homosexual vegan is to have chickens and just eat a shit ton of eggs, have cows you milk only during pregnancy, and then eat the chickens and chickens that die of old age, i guess. they'd taste like shit though.
Are you still going to suck cokkk, homosexual?
your mom ate my meat last night fgt
You should have to hunt and gut and clean an animal yourself to be able to have the reward of eating meat. Buying meat from the grocery store so you can pretend that the grotesque practices of the meat industry aren't happening is peak dystopia.
Hunt how? What level of technology counts as natural in hunting?
You can shoot them with a laser beam, it doesn't matter. The point is you have to take a knife and gut the animal, clean it, and pack the meat out. That's what you should have to do to be able to eat meat. Everyone else that don't kill animals themselves can be fricking vegans.
>The point is you have to take a knife and gut the animal, clean it, and pack the meat out.
The main obstacle here would unironically just be laziness. People cut up meat all the time, butchers actually disembowel animals, and people who work at farms quickly habituate to it.
Idk what you think this would prove
Yes, some people live this way, and some people are used to it because of their jobs. I'm in awe that you are focusing on that instead of the vast majority of Americans who just go to the grocery store and buy unethically mass-produced meat. For the majority, it would be a wake up call.
I don't think people even give a frick about ethics when their fellow humans are concerned, let alone when it's animals
Right, hence my rhetorical scenario where you would be forced to get dirty and kill an animal yourself if you want to eat meat vs going to the grocery store.
why, you'd feel better about cruelty if the torturers get dirty?
Well it wouldn't be cruel to hunt an animal and kill it mercifully and put every part of it to use and to personally pay your respect to it. That's why I propose it.
C'est la vie
You want a perfect world but animals in the wild also suffer immensely as parasites eat their eyes and liver out while they suffocate because their lungs have collapsed.
We didn't systematically put parasites in them and raise them from birth with the specific plan to put parasites in them, so that's all completely different. Such is life. Life is pain, but we don't need to inflict it unnecessarily.
Maybe you should consider that 'such are humans', we are just wilderness too
But we can choose. We aren't just beasts. I mean, I think we are beasts, we are just animals, but we can choose. Does that not innately come with some weight? Some gravitas? We can decide what to do. Doesn't that feel like a test?
but your own appraisal of humanity clearly indicates that we are not moral agents going towards some good. So why do you expect it?
>So why do you expect it?
Because I have faith. There is a very real war between good and evil, and it rages in your heart and mind all the time. I believe the good can win, with a little help and maybe a good example. I try to be one of those example as much as I can.
how does this play out in your mind? humanity wakes up one day and starts to really care and we stop hurting each other and animals?
Game theory. Look up the hunters dilemma. There are simulations you can watch where a group of selfish people all become cooperative just by ONE person starting as cooperative. It's not just some hippy shit, it's real. We can change the world. You just have to be willing to eat a loss here and there and show people what is the right thing to do.
are there any examples of it happening? are there even theoretical circumstances in which it makes sense?
>are there even theoretical circumstances in which it makes sense?
Yes, look up what i said. Game theory and "stag hunt." As for real world examples, yes, in the crypto world there were examples of this, where people would hold coins and avoid short term gain because they learned that avoiding short term gain was the way for everyone in the system to make the most money. They learned to cooperate and not stab each other in the back and they made more money because of it.
Here's a video. Timestamped.
?feature=shared&t=412
it's simple, we engineer animals with no brains or ability to feel pain
every product of the modern age is made using cruelty and environmental destruction
the solution: go live in the woods or have a nice day