This was a war crime
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This was a war crime
This was a war crime
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Middle Earth doesn't have any laws governing war crimes
You don't need laws to know what is right and what is wrong, you just don't kill noncombatants, and no man would follow a king who did such a thing
Shut the frick up, pussy.
Go murder some more civilians in Ukraine you Russians scumbag
Cry more, homosexual.
Crimea river
the frick are you on about? non-combatants got brutalized all the time until the early rules of war started to form in the 1600s
>non-combatants
AKA the logistics branch of any military. Who do people think provided the food, personell, and materials of war for the armies? The g'damn "non-combatants", that's who. Frick them.
So you'd be happy to murder all these women?
Every last one of those b***hes. Zero fricks given. They're legitimate targets in our current laws of land warfare as they are contributing directly to the war effort in the munitions industry.
Damn anon you're soulless, wouldn't you at least rape them?
>rape
Nope. War is about fighting to destroy the enemy in order to stop the war. The sooner you do it, the faster you can stop doing it.
>has the gall to act knowledgeable about historical precedents for warfare while denying the importance of rape
Anon, being a professional soldier before the introduction of international standards of warfare was basically signing up to be a part of a particularly large gang of mercenaries. The Roman legions expected the captured treasures of defeated armies as part of their salaries, like they were Christmas bonuses. If they didn't get them, they rioted, killed their imperator, proclaimed one of their rank Emperor, and marched on Rome. This happened about 80 times throughout the middle Empire. You really think women weren't a part of that "expected salary?" And this was true for all fighting forces. You genuinely, no memes, MUST account for mass rape in the logistical equation of any antique or medieval assault with a large army.
>thinks I don't know degenerate scum in the past used to rape the shit out of women
We used to torture people too, but we don't do that anymore either.
lmao he doesnt know that weve only gotten better at torture
>waterboarding
>torture
Choose one. We put our dudes through waterboarding in SERE school.
Suspension ,sleep deprivation, dog mauling, food deprivation, being stripped naked and smeared with period blood none of this sounds like torture?
Nah, being strung up by your wrists with your hands behind your back is torture. Being beaten on your feet with steel cables is torture. Having your finger nails ripped out of your fingers is torture.
Thank you, little pussy b***h.
suspension is literally the first thing and its a recommended form of torture you troglodyte
Sleep deprivation is very much a form of torture. I don't know why you think direct physical trauma is the only thing that counts as torture
Good little zogbot
It's torture, me and my friends thought it was a Joke and tried it on eachother. Id rather get my fingernails pulled out or limbs chopped off. It was the horrible. And I've broken multiple bones and had a shattered kneecap. I'd take that over 3 seconds of waterboarding any day no questions.
That's because you haven't been trained how to resist it.
noone can resist it thats the entire point if they have the inhuman willpower to withstand even a tiny bit of waterboarding you can just do it more often and longer
>noone can resist it thats the entire point
Whatever you say, buddy.
Not saying you can't acclimate yourself to something with training.
But you said waterboarding wasn't torture. And that implied its pussy shit.
We're just calling you out for trying to be a fake larping jackass.
Okay.
what form of training lets you survive 5 minutes of waterboarding and do you have video or hell even picture evidence of someone going through it
No no no, you guys are the experts, and I'm just a fricking LARPer, remember? Waterboarding is 100% effective and can't possibly be resisted.
Christopher Hitchens is a giant pussy that could be made to squeel with the simple application of a kimura or a bare naked choke.
>Christopher Hitchens is a giant pussy that could be made to squeel with the simple application of a kimura or a bare naked choke.
I'm an American who only speaks English and I have no fricking clue what this means or what it is
>Christopher Hitchens is a giant pussy that could be made to squeel with the simple application of a kimura or a bare naked choke.
heh, nothing personal kid....
so you had nothing to begin with and you backpedal like a pussy now go ahead and use one persons comment to completely shield yourself from having to back up a single thing you say it only makes you look like a giant pussy and a waste of everyone's time
Okay.
>a vanity fair link
>you just don't kill noncombatants
this homie thinks drummerboys get to go home
This is what's wrong with you fricking yankees.
If something is one way now, it must have always worked like that. You always assume people thought the same way, along the same concepts and ideologies you do now.
This is what happens when a country has no history.
The biggest mistakes we've made in our history was getting invovled in European problems. Should have just let those frickers figure it out themselves.
>you just don't kill noncombatants
What the frick do you think war is?
Are you being serious?
you're obviously not
That's a fricking demon monster with no eyes, it doesn't count as a non-combatant at that point
In any society there are certain protections afforded to parley under a banner of truce however there are and were no guarantees. In the book, Aragorn doesn't ape out because he is something of a chivalrous character. In the movie... well the movie was written by a middle aged woman with purple hair.
True, in the book he just kills him last.
>Yo dawg, my homies are torturing your friend right now. What you gonna do about it, pussy?
>Oh no, why are you killing me?
Aragorn did nothing wrong.
Sauron's envoy waived any right he might have had to diplomatic immunity when he admitted to violating basic humanitarian norms in a manner intentionally meant to provoke Aragorn.
>you just don't kill noncombatants
Like the orcs were doing?
people killed diplomats all the fricking time, see kublai khan's invasion of japan for example.
subtle bait, 8/10
Sauron was torturing non combatant civilians and mind breaking elves on a massive scale, so frick diplomacy and frick you
The good guys in Tolkien's world don't roll like that. Aragorn would never murder someone who comes under the banner of diplomacy, no matter how vile or disingenuous the diplomat is
Then why would he have a political messenger in the first place?
Laws of land warfare must be agreed upon and signed off on by both parties. I highly doubt Sauron signed off on any of that shit, so that would not be a war crime at all.
qualified immunity. he was investigated by the highest power in gondor later on and cleared of all charges
Isn't he the highest power in Gondor?
Yes.
wtf I don't approve of corrupt officials, men are supposed to be better
Woe to the Gondor'd
why didnt the daemon dodge
HE WAS A CONSUL OF MORDOR.
SHAME! SHAME ON THE HOUSE OF ELENDIL FOR SUCH BARBARITY.
homosexuals who cry over this are the same homosexuals who cry over dresden or hiroshima
>dresden or hiroshima
>both unnecessary acts of barbarism by the so-called "good guys"
Cry more homosexual, axis Black folk went on a bloodthirsty invasion spree, they deserved far worse.
No one gives a shit, he's basically evil incarnate.
Yeah I don't think the rules of warfare between human nations really ought to apply to fighting evil monsters and shit
It was a deleted scene which prooves Jackson knew he went too far and realized this was out of character
>Jackson knew it was dumb filler that could be trimmed without detriment to the rest of the film
How is the term "war crime" even a thing?
You're at war! like, anything goes right?
I mean seriously I've never understood this. You're fighting!! What fricking moron would follow the rules?
Also never understood the leave no man behind thing. I get it, it's noble but is it really worth 50 soldiers lives to retrieve 1 guy? That's why we fricking lose. Every battle we've horribly lost is because of this. Not saying we need to be bug people but we should reevaluate our policies.
>Every battle we've horribly lost is because of this.
Name one, fricker.
Literally every single battle in korea and Vietnam.
Black hawk down is an entire movie about this as well.
Wrong.
The "leave no man behind" approach originated in Vietnam among the LRP and LRRP teams, and was later adopted by U.S. SOF...well, at least the Army.
Conventional forces have always weighed the needs of the unit as a whole vs. casualties, and were willing to leave men behind, which they did in droves in WWII, Korea, and in Vietnam.
Well...I mean whatever you say. I'm not an expert it just seems that literally every Hollywood movie about war is about it and it seems like we are vulnerable for it. In fact the real documentary of black hawk down they say that they exploited this feature of the military to try and beat us.
You DO realize the Somalia thing happens WELL AFTER Vietnam, correct?
Yes... but also irrelevant to both our points.
Post-Vietnam is where America got super-squeamish about losses and abandoning wounded. Somalia is post-Vietnam.
That's what I'm saying, to clarify.
And really even in Vietnam incredible effort was made to evac wounded.
That's because literally every Hollywood movie is fricking bullshit garbage.
We won the Somalia fight, despite the fact we sustained fatalities. We only had one pilot captured, and that's just because the boys didn't make it to the downed bird in time before the somali's snatched up the sole survivor. All of the high value targets we wanted were captured and returned to the airfield mostly alive. The somali's didn't break a single one of our positions, and they didn't stop a single conovy despite their numbers advantage, nor did they stop us from leaving the objective the following morning.
Calm down dude, I'm just saying from watching movies it seems like we're extremely vulnerable because we leave no man behind. Like I said it's noble... just not tactically sound. Considering the enemy is bug people with no emotion that exploits it.
It's a thing that happens naturally among soldiers. Mandates do not matter. People who fight together in war form really, really close bonds that they claim is as strong as the bond you have with your child
I totally understand that. It's what separates us from the bug people. It's just that if we wanna win wars like Vietnam that's gonna be a problem. Not like we needed to be there anyway, but it's gonna be our undoing and already has been.
>It's what separates us from the bug people
What makes you think the same thing isn't observed in bug people?
China accident videos.
We're talking about bonds between soldiers in war, not on construction sites
WELLLL.....c'mon homosexual. Tell us all the battles we've "horribly lost" because we wouldn't abandon our dead and wounded. We're waiting.
It's beneficial to both sides to have certain laws regarding non-combatants and messengers. What you're talking about is exactly what leads to situations like WW1 and the eastern front of WW2, which were the two worst events to ever occur in human history.
You can't just genocide entire nations in the modern world, it creates situations that frick up the entire world.
Yeah I understand they are horrible things to do but...??? War is WAR. If it's escalated to that point then.... Anything goes. That's sort of the point right?
War has almost never meant the annihilation of the entire opposing nation. That's a pretty modern concept. Ancient armies simply didn't have the means unless they were notable standouts like the Mongols or Romans.
Yeah, its fricking bullshit. "Slaughtering a hundred thousand people in an afternoon is fine but you can't kill them this way", fricking stupid. Either we agree that war is a time when all morality is abandoned or we agree war itself is immoral. You can't have both, there's no morality in the wholesale slaughter of human lives
You have to have certain rules of Parley, or there can never be parley, and every fite is to annihilation or flight.
But Mordor has no inclination to ceasefire, just got done invading Aragorn's land, and then Sauron's ambassador starts going on and on about torturing his friend...
Also Aragorn and Gandalf make it pretty clear they aren't there to negotiate terms, but issue a threat. At that point the smart Mouth move is to shuffle back inside.
I don't think anyone wanted to parley with Sauron
He talked shit
I'd probably attack and kill Aragon right there and then if I witnessed him do this, not because I'm siding with the other side but because if we're supposed to be on the side of good then we need to set examples of good, murdering a noncombatant is not a good example, especially from a leader
>on the side of good
They weren't on the "side of good", they were on the side of the humans and their allies. "Good" had nothing to do with it....
Pretty sure it's supposed to be good vs evil
You're wrong.
it was literally just good vs evil. nothing more complicated. if you're starting to sympathize with sauron its time to go outside.
>Sympathize with Sauron
Nope. I'm on team human, which is why I give two shits that Aragorn hacked that frickers head off.
NOOOOOOOOO YOU CAN'T DO A HECKIN' WARCRIME
It's a "Winner lives, Loser dies" sorta conflict. There are not crimes except losing.
And if you win in any conflict, there are no "war crimes" repercussions anyway. The generals who ordered the bombing/firebombing of civilian cities in WW2, killing hundreds of thousands, didn't even get a stern talking to. On the Allied side at least.
from my perspective it was the physical embodiment of evil that was evil
I mean the whole scene is:
Aragorn: We are here to bring Justice down on Sauron for being an evil dick
Mouth: (showing up) You guys here to discuss terms?
Gandalf: Nope. Sauron can pack up his shit and leave the plane, or its a fite.
Mouth: Have you heard about my master's Hobbit-torture fetish? He sure likes giving it to them little piggies...let me go on about it-
*Aragorn boops his head off*
>words are enough for a death sentence
>Yeah the boss of this place needs to frick right off (we didn't appreciate the invasion)'
>You guys here to parley?
>No, frick your parley, we are here to fite or you better start running now
>Well how about instead I tell you about my torture porn involving your dear friends....
He was a fricking idiot.
Yeah but they're still just words, what happened to sticks and stones? Should have been the bigger man and just let him go
Literally the first thing that's said to the Mouth when he shows his face is that they aren't here to parley or negotiate, and Mordor and co. need to start running or be ready to fight.
And the mouth was never a diplomat by any measure, he was a herald sent to frick with them. Diplomacy would have been declaring war on Gondor instead of piling in. Mordor never did diplomacy.
The Mouth of Sauron's function is that of an emissary. It's what he clings to when he fears for his life in the books. Gandalf states that even though he's a fricking piece of shit that doesn't follow any rules of proper conduct, Aragorn and friends do, so he will not be harmed. They are there to deliver demands, which is still a diplomatic interaction
The words were a spell. The Mouth of Sauron was attacking everyone through magic by talking despair into their hearts and ruining their morale. He was weaponising depression. This is an attack as surely as if he’d stabbed at Aragorn with a knife. Aragorn cutting his head off was to defend all who could hear him from his spoken spell of despair.
He thought they wouldn't do that sort of shit to a diplomat, and if it had been the books, he would've been right
If you knew The Mouth's backstory you'd realize it wasn't.
warcrimes are okay against demon men
I can't believe Viggo actually cut off that actor's head because he was upset about Jackson messing with the lore.
diplomatic immunity
war crimes don't exist
War crimes? How could there be war crimes when there hasn't been a war
Jews don't give a frick about "war crimes". See soviet union, america, Israel.
In real life wars are usually two factions at odds over something, such as a resource. There is an understanding that today's allies may be tomorrows enemies and vice versa.
This doesn't apply to Sauron who is an entity that fundamentally disagrees with reality itself and wants to destroy everything. You can't negotiate with what is effectively a cancer.
>Sauron who is an entity that fundamentally disagrees with reality itself and wants to destroy everything
Sauron doesn't want to destroy reality. Sauron wants to organize and control the world. Putting everything into order as he thinks they should be. Melkor is the sperg who wants to destroy everything
It's only a war crime if you lose the war
>they rape and pillage entire towns of innocent people
>NOOOO not my HECKIN DIPLOMAT
Frick orcs and their gay masters, humanchads stay winning.
Not my problem. Little shit got what he deserved, and his cowardly plot to destroy their hope failed. Go watch GoT.
No it wasnt, war crimes don't exist in Middle Earth and he deserved it
What movie?
BUT WHAT OF ARAGORN'S TAX POLICY FOR GONDOR?
What of free trade agreements for People of the Menu?
What of the environmental protection agreement for the registered arthropod denizens of Mirkwood?
Your existence is a war crime
So why did the "bad guy" come out for peaceful negotiations meanwhile the "good guy" beheaded the messenger and instigated war?
What did they eat?
bread grown, milled and baked in the rest of mordor, which isn't nearly as shitty as the plain of gorgoroth just kinda ashy, with the work done by the orc women and enslaved men. So in addition to getting conscripted in to the Dark Lord's army where you're just a numbered slave and driven around by whips and serving under undead monsters that'll peel your skin off and torture your soul if you annoy them, they were probably getting cucked too
>only carbs
>0 protein unless they leave mordor and get to eat human meat
And you're telling me these orcs fought and won multiple battles against the armies of men and elves
Standard Orcs were all manlet, cowardly weaklings that won due to overwhelming numbers. They probably did have meat from hunting, depending on where they were. Don't know if Tolkien ever said anything about that
In the books he simply walks back through the gates after offering a deal where the kingdoms of men get to keep their independence if they pay a tribute and promise to never bear arms against Sauron.
Once again showing that blockbuster movies are plebians tales for people whos moral compass stops at "Orc look evil, orc must die"
Yeah, Sauron just wanted peace but the warmonger Aragorn wanted none of it
guarantee you that especially humans out of all the allied races would never sit within their borders if it meant mediocrity. They wouldn't eat people and kill civilians for sport, maybe, but they would threaten the freedom of other people, just like Sauron did
And don't forget about damned taxes
your ugly face is a war crime