Thread for the discussion of the Star Wars prequels. Specifically whether the prequels broke some kind of cardinal rule by showing Yoda, a jedi knight, using a lightsaber. Pro tip: Star Wars is a film and on topic
 It's All Fucked Shirt $22.14 |
 Thalidomide Vintage Ad Shirt $22.14 |
It's All Fucked Shirt $22.14 |
Did... did you just delete the last thread because you'd been thoroughly blown the frick out and all your critiques were literally just you quoting the Plinkett reviews?
No. I assumed troony jannies did it so I made a new one.
>prequelgay thinks he has ever, at any point, "blown the frick out" anyone calling his shit trilogy bad
lol we've been making fun of you for years, kiddo.
>sequelgay making shit up
Stop lying. The prequels are loved. You sequelgays are instantly btfo by the fact that the sequels are genuinely hated.
The prequels are loved because they are constantly defended. No one defends the sequels because they are that bad.
Your use of an anime pic is adorable. It says that you are desperately trying to look like you belong. You don't get your shit back to rebbit LMAO
Literally nobody brought up the sequels you actual schizo nut.
Lol it's literally just this small insular group of underage posters and Indians who defend the prequels for free this hard. Again sir, we have an archive.
Take your meds.
You do this for free. Defending a Disney owned product. FOR FREE.
Disney didn't make the prequels.
No seriously, why was the last thread nuked? Because it wasn't blatant shilling?
Besides the moron OP, there was a lot of good discussion going on.
Anyway, are there any edits of AOTC that reinstate *NSYNC in the Geonosis battle?
>Anyway, are there any edits of AOTC that reinstate *NSYNC in the Geonosis battle?
the what now?
NSYNC made a cameo as Jedi Knights fighting in the Battle of Geonosis.
The members of the boy band *NSYNC filmed cameos as Jedi Knight extras in the arena battle scene, this was done by Lucas basically for his daughter who was a fan. Leaked images got out, boomers decided it was the end of the world and Star Wars was dead, and they were cut from the movie.
berestain bears
>Anyway, are there any edits of AOTC that reinstate *NSYNC in the Geonosis battle?
None because the scene where they appeared has never been released to the public.
Now there's some lost media that's worth finding
>Besides the moron OP, there was a lot of good discussion going on.
i literally had a person "THANK" me for providing them good serious discussion in the last thread. do you know how many times that has happened in all the years of Cinemaphile? lol. and THAT thread goes poof.
Clones was the best one
digital matte paintings are so ugly.
These are kino and are turning Dooku into my favorite prequel character. He was right about almost everything.
The problem to me is Sidious without his Palpatine bit is such an obvious piece of shit, that him falling for it doesn't seem plausible.
>that him falling for it doesn't seem plausible.
Granted Satan. It would have made more sense for Sheev to be less cartoonishly evil in that scene.
I like Dooku a lot. And the fight with Yoda doesn't bother me. If anything his cartoony fencing motif and insistence on lightsaber dueling made him seem like a real traditional swordfighting autist.
Jar-jar stumbling through the battlefield was a bit much to me, I get that it's also for children but that was a bit too silly. Same when Anakin flies a fighter when he's like 11 or whatever and blows up that big ship.
Otherwise the main issue was just the bad dialogue, it didn't really do damage to the universe/setting like the sequels.
I feel like they could've accomplished the young innocent contrast to vader thing with a 13-15 year old instead of 9.
Yeah that would have been better, but George wanted that really young audience as well.
Him leaving his mother wouldn't hit as hard.
Him leaving his mother has no impact whatsoever until he gets a bad dream about her when he's 20 years old
And she fricking dies. Pay attention. It's there for a reason.
>Same when Anakin flies a fighter when he's like 11 or whatever and blows up that big ship.
Didn't he have R2 with him? That's helps a little bit. And they at least established him as a capable pilot.
I just feel like that should be a bit too complicated for a kid to do, the whole speeder race is enough to show he's incredibly talented and special.
He needed something to do during the finale. Can't have him in with Maul. And he'd look moronic running around with Padme and the guards.
Yeah you're right he needs something, but maybe it should've been something else. It is difficult to find a good place for him since he is so damn young, he'd feel out of place everywhere.
It is too complicated which is why the whole thing is a series of accidents. But that's kind of people's problem with the scene is that Anakin, totally by accident, starts the ship, locks autopilot on, lands inside the carrier, and fires missiles at the core.
It would have been better if the Anakin had been in radio contact with the Naboo pilots and intentionally made the choice to destroy the ship
Oh yeah I actually forgot that it's a bunch of accidents, it's more of the same kind of humor that jar-jar has on the battlefield, a bit too over the top silly, that explains why I like neither I guess.
Right, it's a series of accidents and it's played for laughs, every time the N1 does something, it cuts to little Ani in the wienerpit saying "Whoops!". Again, him getting stuck in the starfighter is fine but it would have been better if he got off autopilot quickly and intentionally joined the fight out of some sense of justice...The only intentional action is him spinning, that's a good trick.
>It would have been better if the Anakin had been in radio contact with the Naboo pilots and intentionally made the choice to destroy the ship
Which is exactly what many fanedits do.
>Same when Anakin flies a fighter when he's like 11 or whatever and blows up that big ship.
why is that any more silly than him being able to podrace at super human speeds? have you never seen any of those old FOX specials like "wildest police chases" where the culprit is a 9 year old kid? shit happens bro.
It's silly because the movie makes it a silly scene, see
The podrace is played totally straight and Anakin is in control of his actions.
How many of those culprits are stealing fighter jets?
Not a fair comparison when the most common vehicle for individual use in Star Wars is actually a fighter jet.
>Starfighters are common
what makes you say this?
It seems like every ship is armed is all I mean. And its not a huge jump from podracing to flying a ship. Especially given autopilot and R2 being on board.
I wouldn't have minded if r2 brought him along and maybe he shoots down a droid or two. But keeping with the modern world comparison it's like a nine year old joyrider street racer hopping into an f16 and blowing up a Chinese aircraft carrier.
>why is that any more silly than him being able to podrace at super human speeds?
He's explicitly stated to have practiced podracing before the big race. It's understood the first time he rode a pod he was going in a straight line at 2mph, and he worked his way up from there. Since Star Wars starfighters are just space jets, the audience knows piloting is a difficult thing which requires training. If any jackass off the street, no matter how much of "a natural" they are, fell into an F-18 wienerpit right as it was being launched off an aircraft carrier, they would crash immediately, not out-fly seasoned veterans. Luke gets a pass for the DS attack because he previously establishes being a bush pilot, and he was being covered by the other pilots. Ani accidentally being the big hero was rightfully mocked at the time, despite what Disney revisionists would have you believe.
Hell they even establish that Anakin had never completed a race before that.
i just dont see much difference from flying a ship vs flying a flying podracer. its all flying. controls would be somewhat universal like in real life. your argument hinges on how difficult YOU think it is to fly a spaceship in star wars. *I* think its fine and logical.
>i just dont see much difference from flying a ship vs flying a flying podracer
It's 2D vs 3D, that's a pretty big jump.
>your argument hinges on how difficult YOU think it is to fly a spaceship in star wars.
This is what people mean when they talk about media literacy. Starfighters in Star Wars are contemporary fighter jets IN SPACE, so they work like contemporary fighter jets, but with lasers instead of bullets. They have wings, twist to turn, fire forwards, have the same joystick controls, etc. So they're as difficult to pilot as irl airplanes, this isn't up for interpretation or debate.
>It's 2D vs 3D, that's a pretty big jump.
except the podracer isnt 2d. its flying and he does huge jumps and barrel rolls and other 3d movement in it.
>Otherwise the main issue was just the bad dialogue, it didn't really do damage to the universe/setting like the sequels.
i dislike this argument about the original trilogy and prequels. i LIKE that the dialog is awkward at times, because sometimes people are awkward, especially a slave-turned messiah-child soldier monk and his secret princess/queen girlfriend.
and disney's sequels and their use of modern real world vernacular and quippage proves my point for me. those movies had "better writers" and look how garbage and forgettable all the dialog was.
there arent even any good memes making fun of the sequel trilogy's dialog except for "They fly now" but people will still be quoting the prequels ironically and unironically 20-30 years from now.
What’s worse is that the “I hate sand” line is treated as particularly awful when it actually makes perfect sense in context.
Padme is talking about the beach and how much she likes it. Anakin, whose main experience with sand was on a desert planet where he was a slave says he hates sand because it’s uncomfortable garbo and then segues into an awkward attempt at romance that not only is being said by a teenager, but a teenager forbidden from doing exactly what he’s doing.
Most critics don’t fricking pay attention and just go for sound bytes.
>those movies had "better writers" and look how garbage and forgettable all the dialog was.
Yeah people talk shit but in the same breath they're difectly quoting movies released more than 20 years ago. Just off the top of my head:
>anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering
>i hate sand
>from my point of view the jedi are evil
>slaying younglings
>NOOOOOOOOOOOO
>me-sa jar-jar binks (and other jar jar lingo)
>not from a jedi
>you dont want to sell me death sticks
Half of these are normie memes, not even nerd movie quote talk. It's hard to write something with that much staying power. Just cause it's not what people wanted from star wars doesn't mean it's not good in a B-movie kind of way.
Bombad list, anon.
The death sticks bit is hilarious
>NOOOOOOOOOOOO THIS ONE OFF JOKE CHARACTER CANT HAVE A SILLY STREET-NAME THAT MOCKS HIM NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I'm being totally genuine. The set up and delivery are great, and it's true to Obi Wans charactrr.
Obi-Wan first described Yoda as a great warrior. Why is the idea that Kenobi didn't lie and Yoda was a warrior so controversial?
It's one of the complaints from the Plinkett reviews which really goes into the "Mike's own interpretation of the OT, which somehow ignores the actual lines from the OT" category.
>zoomer didn't watch the films
Put your phone down, what happens is that his force ghost tells Luke to find the Jedi master who "trained me", he never calls him a great warrior. That's Luke's assumption given his naivety about what he THINKS the Jedi are supposed to be, hence when Yoda is revealed, it throws out his preconceived notions on what a great Jedi is supposed to be.
The entire fricking point of Yoda is that he isn't a great warrior, prequelbaby. That's the theme.
>ESB challenges preconceived notions on what a Jedi is
>heckin based my childhood
>TPM challenges preconceived notions on what a Jedi is
>NOOOO NOT MY CHILDHOOD GEORGE LUCAS RAPED MY CHILDHOOD
>betting brain melted this hard to the point of not making sense
The point is that the prequels aren't actually saying anything thematically interesting that we don't already know, "Jedi are super powered samurai wizards and can do cool spinning tricks" is not something we really wondered about. So to retroactively make Yoda a tiny spinning gremlin of death with his own baby lightsaber makes him just as fricking generic as the 100 other literal whos who bite it on Geonosis, or die in the Purge. It isn't revelatory at all. I know you are underage and don't understand how these have been valid criticisms, because LITTLE GREEN GREMLIN WAS WHOOSH WHOOSH COOL EBIN LIGHTSABER POW POW
*getting
>The point is that the prequels aren't actually saying anything thematically interesting that we don't already know
Only if you didn't watch the movies (which you obviously didn't)
You aren't saying anything of value, moronic homosexual. You don't really learn anything at all in the prequels, you learn the origin of the Clones which doesn't matter, and the particulars with how Anakin went full moron and got himself dismembered. Neither of those things were worth hours of my time. There is very little in terms of story that actually even mattered in the prequels to the overall plot.
Besides every single plot event containing Anakin, the Jedi Order and the Republic you're right
See if you put your phone down, all of this is told to you in the fricking original trilogy already. What sort of 5 year old are you where you needed to see the fall of the Republic?
You're literally a filtered plotgay, come back once you've watched at least 250 kinos.
Black person its fiction you literally don't NEED to know anything
But the version of events as portrayed in the Prequels is more interesting (and retroactively makes the OT more interesting) than a line of dialogue about how the republic turned into the empire and anakin turned into darth vader
Ah yes, who could forget all the nameless CGI clones or the heroic Ki Adi Mundi, or the three lines Sam Jackson had! Truly memorable stuff in the prequels! Sure is interesting. Remember Maul having almost 20 words of dialogue? Who could forget! Lama Su too! Boy oh boy is she great. Jango Fett with his six lines also!
What point are you trying to prove here?
I know you have autism but the point is that outside of extended media AROUND the prequels to fix the problems the movies had, the characters themselves in a vacuum are fricking boring and one note.
Nobody brought up extended media until you did. What does that have to do with my post?
Are you truly not following? I'm saying the characters are boring on their own. What are you struggling with? Why are prequelgays literally always so horrendously low IQ?
>I'm saying the characters are boring on their own.
Yes and you brought up a bunch of random background characters like Ki-Adi Mundi and are pretending that I claimed he was an interesting character. What the frick are you talking about?
In the post I made
I just said I found the fall of Anakin and the Republic interesting
You replied
crying about Ki Adi Mundi and Lama Su
I don't see the relevance in the slightest
>Nobody brought up extended media until you did.
back then the extended universe was PART of star wars.
Not to Lucas.
You're projecting.
You knew the names of all those characters.
>inb4 n-no I looked them up!
Lies.
Maybe you're just a brainlet.
This has to be bait, right?
Your definition of "saying something interesting" is about how much worldbuilding there is or isn't in the movie? You're a hopeless pleb if so, not worth trying to explain to you why iterating on the same themes and showing them in an aromantic light is so much more interesting than character backstory.
I'm not talking about lore or world building you underage zoomie, I'm talking about themes. I'm talking about having something to SAY, it's not bait. You people are just so fricking beyond stupid when you defend these clusterfrick films that it comes off as desperate. What does it DO for the character of Yoda to see him be a generic Jedi? How does that enrich the character you see in Empire?
>What does it DO for the character of Yoda to see him be a generic Jedi?
Yoda was a generic Jedi, failed, saw his entire world collapse, spent 20 years meditating in the woods and became a wizard.
You are just rehashing the plot from wookipedia, we know this homosexual. That wasn't the question.
Yoda trained all the younglings, which means he had a bond with every single Jedi out there. And because of that bond, he felt them all die and continued to feel it for 20 years when Vader was killing the rest of them.
The prequels do have something to say, the movies purposely use the same themes as the OT and show them in a different light. When you look at the story chronologically, you can see the themes raised in Episode I are all answered wrong by the end of III, but those same themes come back up in IV and are addressed with a new way of thinking in V and VI.
>Pacifism, betrayal, loyalty, dogma, political alignment, the nature of life and love, temptation, revenge, tradition, hubris, turning away from faith, etc.....
>The prequels do have something to say, the movies purposely use the same themes as the OT and show them in a different light.
Kek no they don't, what a colossal cope. The prequels are tonally inconsistent and all over the place between Episodes because Lucas was trying to obviously cram far too much into the mold while also pretending it was a swashbuckling space adventure, when it wasn't. It's incredibly inconsistent. Everyone over 10 realized that. It's the main criticism people levy on the films.
The Prequels are the story of an arrogant religion who get a hold of the Messiah and accidentally hand him over to the Devil
And that's incredibly fricking stupid for Star Wars and needed to be pulled off by a better writer
>And that's incredibly fricking stupid for Star Wars
How is it stupid? Star Wars is Space Fantasy, so it fits in just fine.
How exactly do you figure political intrigue and genocide are on brand with Flash Gordon homages?
Because World War II and space Nazis is so apolitical.
>genocide
Alderaan blew the frick up.
Blowing up a whole planet and previously having eliminated an entire religion except for two guys isn’t genocide?
>that's incredibly fricking stupid for Star Wars
It's a story that followed pretty organically from the themes of the OT and it is increasingly relevant to the modern American politics that all of this is crafted within.
>organically
Because you don't watch enough movies idk? It's wrong and you don't seem to understand how you are wrong.
This is getting to the point that you are asking to be spoonfed themes from a movie that you don't like. Put some of your own effort in to understand rather than stewing in soiled diapers.
It's always this cope isn't it? That no one understood your baby movies to sell toys?
Imagine bragging that you didn't understand a movie that you consider to be for kids
Nobody fails to understand them, moron. You just pretend that because it makes you feel better about the mockery.
>Nobody fails to understand them
Except for you
This gets super old, just say you like bad movies we don't need all the workarounds, just admit you like them and own up to that you are moronic
>They're bad... because I said so
These movies have been out for two fricking decades, anon
>And that's incredibly fricking stupid for Star Wars
Why does it always come down to the fact that you view Star Wars as some quasi-religious sacred cow that must never be defiled?
Who decides what is and is not right for Star Wars (considering you've decided George Lucas isn't the one who decides that)
That's Dune.
Glad you could make it finally, anon.
>The prequels don't have themes
>Yes they do here
>Kek no
Lad I don't know what to tell you, you clearly are getting hung up on plot details which is pleb thinking. The plots are not the same in both trilogies but the message, the meta narrative is.
You shouldn't be so confident spouting your ignorance about movies that even children can understand the themes of.
>you just didn't le get it bro
Yeah the entire world thinks these movies suck because everyone is just stupid and you, when you saw these films while in diapers, were able to understand how secretly kino it is
>Yeah the entire world thinks these movies suck
A handful of journalists and seething ecelebs aren't the world
>Blind reverence for venerated institutions, both political and religious, chosen one prophecies, etc., can lead to complacency and be utilized by malicious actors.
Not far off from Dune really.
Millennial here.
You and RLM are both the big gay.
Imagine still being mad over RLM?
What was the question?
>prequelgays are also ESL
many such cases.
Star wars is literally international, mon ami
You ended a statement with a question mark.
Here, let me help you:
>Can you imagine still being made over RLM?
To answer this question: yes I can when morons like you keep bringing up their garbage tier points because you’re too dumb to form your own opinions.
This board has been mocking you for almost 25 years at this point, do you realize there's an archive? You are like flatards on /x/
>25 years
Wut.
You’re clearly a newbie trying to fit in.
Anon, it's 2024...
No one’s been on Cinemaphile making fun of the prequels for 25 years, anon.
2003 was 20 years ago, sport.
That’s my point, you absolute homosexual.
Are you illiterate?
Imageboards existed before Cinemaphile zoomer.
Yes....tell me more about how you were posting on 2ch in 2000.
If you weren't ESL, I said ABOUT two decades...2003 was 20 years ago you fricking zoomer.
>Obi-Wan first described Yoda as a great warrior. Why is the idea that Kenobi didn't lie and Yoda was a warrior so controversial?
they like to make tropes about knights vs wizards. i've seen an argument that the knights use lightsabers but the masters/wizards dont need them. they point to the emperor and his lack of a lightsaber and his use of force lightning. they point to old tropes about wizards/old wise teachers who teach the hero but dont fight themselves. they basically make the false argument that because george lucas was inspired by the monomyth/hero of a thousand faces/hero's journey methodology that he was apparently NOT ALLOWED to have the old wizard from the original trilogy be a fighter in the prequel trilogy. its very loose and obtuse half assed critical theorizing.
these people who like to pick apart the star wars prequels expose themselves as morons with bad taste the moment you ask them "well how should it have been" and they start spewing ridiculously horrible ideas that just reaffirm george lucas's genius in my mind.
This gets even funnier when you consider the Emperor absolutely has a lightsaber in RotS. He just doesn’t need it while dealing with Luke because he has Luke exactly where he wants him.
>Obi-Wan first described Yoda as a great warrior.
when does he say that?
>whether the prequels broke some kind of cardinal rule by showing Yoda, a jedi knight, using a lightsaber.
I don't know if it broke a rule but it made the character worse. OT Yoda (and Emperor) were great and interesting characters who didn't need a lightsaber. Yoda even came across as perhaps a pacifist with his "Wars not make one great" line. I feel like with the prequels and later stuff people couldn't figure out how to make an interesting and powerful character without making them fight with a lightsaber.
>Yoda even came across as perhaps a pacifist with his "Wars not make one great" line.
Because of what happened in the prequels. Did you not pay attention?
>who didn't need a lightsaber.
I'm sorry, but this was just fan headcanon because they reject the idea that the figure could jump like a ninja. If Yoda had simply picked up Anakin and Obiwan's two swords by using the Force and then fought like Kreia by standing still with two flying lightsabers the entire theater would have cheered in hype.
But Lucas is a man of the 1950s, grew up with space ships and Flash Gordon while these are things that only a nerd raised on video games can conceive of.
>fought like Kreia
Thing is, I don't think George ever intended for the force to be quite so flashy. Powerful, yes, but it's better for the setting if it's always straddling the line of believability so that characters like Han Solo can exist who don't believe the hype.
I miss the
>Meditate and maybe lift this rock or fighter or jump a little higher
version of the force. Video game force sucks.
>Thing is, I don't think George ever intended for the force to be quite so flashy.
maybe not, but we are still talking about films that need to be spectacular. In 1980, lifting an X-wing using force was already a spectacle, but in the cynicism of 2000, fans who spend hours thinking about how to use force obviously expect more from the source.
Also, if you make it canon that force can lift an object, you're already giving more rules than one can handle in single movie.
this shit was moronic to be honest. it looks cool on the pic but in the game it's just three goofy swords floating around
You're literally criticizing the graphics and physics of an early 2000's game and it has nothing to do with staging it in a movie. I'm sorry but It seems like a criticism just for the sake of spitting on it.
>Wars not make one great!
Such a silly argument though, because Yoda saying he doesn't believe in warfare isn't the same as saying he wouldn't fight if need be.
It's like Obi-Wan in ANH, "There are alternatives to fighting", but when faced with Vader he knows he must fight to buy time.
The Jedi can be a mostly pacifist group of monks while also being prepared to fight, and nothing in the OT ever says they would be morally opposed to battle.
Yoda also says
>A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and self defense, never for attack.
Self defense doesn't mean exclusively deflecting blaster bolts and using rocks as shields.
To be completely honest I always considered Obi wan's description of the lightsaber kinda off. Like if he was just glorifying the Jedi more than they deserved, because he wanted to impress Luke. Lightsabers are assassin weapons designed specifically to kill with a single shot or cause irreparable damage. It is not a weapon for civilized times from any point of view, on the contrary, Pre Disney, it's a terrible, cynical and efficient weapon.
There is also no civilized way to kill a person, no matter how much Obi Wan tries to justify it.
>Lightsabers are assassin weapons
Nonsense. They are clearly for dueling which is an extremely honorable way of settling disputes.
It's bias from Obi-Wan but more about the Old Republic than the weapon itself. He doesn't call lightsabers civilized, but the weapons of a more civilized age. Literally look at it like swords versus pistols, the noble knights of olde versus the gunslinging outlaws of the Old West.
Of course, the prequels and adjacent media bake a dislike for blasters into Obi's character.
They are Samurai anon.
Feel like it would have been so much better if lightsabers were only used when it is really necessary instead of lighting them up at every opportunity because they are cool.
When do they ignite them when it’s not necessary?
He could handle this in at least ten less inconspicuous ways.
Nice job keeping the blaster out of view.
Fricker.
why didn't obi wan use the mind trick on the thug like he did on the imperial earlier?
Because the imperial didn’t go from zero to murder and pull a blaster at the first sentence spoken.
Also Obi-Wan says that it only works on the weak minded. If Pando Baba happened to be stronger minded than we suspect, then Luke’s journey ends with a hole in the gut.
>Because the imperial didn’t go from zero to murder and pull a blaster at the first sentence spoken.
he wouldn't go if obi wan used the mind trick
>Also Obi-Wan says that it only works on the weak minded. If Pando Baba happened to be stronger minded than we suspect, then Luke’s journey ends with a hole in the gut.
I highly doubt that a random gangster has a mind stronger than a stormtrooper, and even if so, obi wan only needed to move his hand to try and resolve this without attracting attention
>I highly doubt a random gangster
Han Solo says hi.
>Obi-Wan could have
Cutting someone’s arm off is less alarming than using psychic powers.
han solo is not a random gangster
>Cutting someone’s arm off is less alarming than using psychic powers.
obiwan should've cut the stormtrooper's arm off then
Han Solo is a smuggler who’s down on his luck while working for Jabba the Hutt on a backwater shitplanet and is revealed to have dumped his cargo in a panic when the Empire was going to board him.
Yes. He is a random gangster.
Again, the stormtrooper didn’t immediately start trying to smoke everyone. If he had, Obi-Wan probably would have had to amputate.
neither did the thug
Yes he did. Obi-Wan appears, has a single sentence to deescalate, then Ponda Baba REEEEEEEEEEEs and pulls a blaster.
Or are you saying he should have predicted that Ponda’s autism would flare up and just wade into the situation mind tricking? Because that’s just stupid.
no, that's quite reasonable for any person with decent situational awareness and especially fot an experienced jedi who in addition can sense people's feelings through the force
>"You'll be DEAD!"
>Obi-Wan intervenes, offers a drink instead
>Luke is thrown to the ground, Gun is immediately pulled
>Obi-Wan draws his sword.
I don't think highly of your intellect.
>Obi-Wan intervenes, offers a drink instead
why didn't he use the mind trick there?
Because he didn’t have time
Because the bad guy was already resolved to kill and the mind trick wouldn’t have worked
Because you’re a gay moron
Because Ben isn’t in fact a pacifist and wanted to kill the maniac bad guy fleeing several death sentences and took the opportunity to do it with honor intact
Pick whatever you want man. Its good he killed those guys.
that's a lot of copes but
there was enough time to wave his hand
and even if it wouldn've worked it was worth a try
and ben's pacifism was never the point of this conversation, it was about jedi igniting their lightsabers when it's not necessary
>it's not necessary
And what makes you the expert on this?
having two eyes, ears and a brain
I have those things. I wouldn't consider myself on expect on when a space wizard should use his magic sword.
obviously using a recognizable weapon of an outlawed order in a crowded cantina in a town filled with imperial soldiers isn't necessary if it could be averted with an inconspicuous mind trick
>why does the warrior monk relic from feudal times kill the guy who drew a gun on his young ward?
Samurai. They are just Samurai. What don't you get about this?
they talked before he drew the gun
yep. didn't work. bad guys escalated. don quixote drew his sword to protect his squire.
it could work if he used the mind trick
>A samurai gets into a barfight with an armed thug.
>"Ackchually that was quite dishonorable and un-Jedi-like! Doesn't Obi-wan know that at Matthew 5:39..."
Where did this misunderstanding arise?
Like what?
I agree but I think the issue mostly stems from it being movies set during wartime. Sabers are going to be drawn more often than not. Lotsa killing need doing.
The lightsaber can literally disarm someone without you having to worry about them bleeding out, and in a world with flawless prosthetics no less, not to mention its usage as a tool for getting out of scrapes by simply cutting your way through walls.
Then you have blaster bolt deflection…
The lethality of a lightsaber is entirely up to the user and it’s clear from Anakin’s conflict with killing Dooku that using it lethally when you don’t have to is undesirable.
The only times a lightsaber acts like a lightsaber is against droids, monsters, and some special NPCs.
Lucas got around this by using droids as the main villain in the prequels because otherwise you can't maybe even have a PG-13.
What does any of this have to do with what I said?
>Lightsabers are assassin weapons
list 10 prominently assassinated historical figures who were assassinated using a full sized sword. the closest you will find is inejiro asanuma who was assassinated with a SHORT sword.
historically assassins use daggers, poisons, pieces of wire, or even pillows. in the modern day poison and guns are the go to.
no one assassinates using full sized swords. they are weapons of face to face combat that require you to get in arm's reach of your adversary with a giant weapon. the least practical type of weapon for subtly.
Idk how heavy they're supposed to be but they essentially have the reach of a greatsword, the lethality of a water jet cutter, and the form factor of a scroll.
They might be slightly bigger than daggers when turned off, but they're way deadlier and way longer for when you need that. And they're basically only ever supposed to be used by people subclassing fighter/sorcerer anyway, not as pure melee weapons.
You could easily assassinate someone by force pushing them off a ledge from 300 meters away with no witnesses or even circumstantial evidence you did it.
Anon. They’re katanas. Lightsabers are katanas.
Nta but they're conceptually probably based off a mix of dumb asian shit like katanas or jian, combined with some gimick weapon like shuriken or kusarigama.
It would unironically make the franchise more kino if they were only treated like katanas in the show. Only equipped when the wielder intends to fight to the death, and not fricking thrown like a goddamn boomerang.
>Lightsabers are assassin weapons designed specifically to kill with a single shot
it's literally the definition of being civilized, in middle ages it was considered honorable to carry a dagger that can finish off a mortally wounded knight and flamberges were seen as a terrible and cynical weapon because they gave severe wounds (didn't stop anyone from using them though)
Every movie describes Jedi as warrior monks who devote their lives to studying a very specific weapon in order to protect and serve the innocent. Yoda not venerating war doesn't make him a pacifist. These are Samurai. Knights-errant. Yoda was not described as an exception in any way.
Yoda never used a lightsaber in the OT, therefore he can never use one, anywhere, for any time. Even though he's a Jedi and all Jedi have lightsabers and he's described as a "great warrior" by Luke in ESB, actually showing Yoda with a lightsaber goes against his OT image, and OT images can never change. /RLM
im still waiting here for more victims with my unlimited ammo illmatic blaster from hell
yeah, the cardinal rule of having some taste
Gotcha George.
Would the original decapitation shot have been better?
This was based and I won't pretend otherwise.
the way darth maul instantly became a iconic star wars villain versus the failure of the kylo ren character is a microcosm of the star wars IP's failures overall under disney.
No one denies it. Instead of having Dooku and Grievous, just him with a character arc and Talon would have be so much better.
Dooku is actually a great character. I think he's important. Grievous is just cool looking and a fun parallel to what Anakin will become.
>Dooku is actually a great character.
Yes, but Dooku could also work very well as a traitor Jedi who doesn't need to be trained by Palpatine, and simply shares the idea that the system doesn't work.
Dooku a little too old and noble-looking to really seem like someone who would accept being an apprentice to a Sith Lord. in Ep2 i think it would be better to have Maul act as the Emperor right-hand man and Dooku as his forced ally just because they share some points.
if Dooku was working on his own agency it would take away from the plotline of the sith meticulously controlling everything towards their end goals. having dooku be seduced by palpatine - even as an elder jedi - helped emphasis that palpatine's guile didnt just work on young naive headstrong warriors like anakin and maul - but that he could also manipulate and control people supposedly "on his level". dooku emphasized palpatine's subversion of the whole jedi order, blinding the council, recruiting their top people, etc. even Qui-Gon Jinn's hersey and beef with the council was hinted at being a result of him serving under Dooku - demonstrating that palpatine has been subtly subverting the whole jedi order long before Anakin came around. that was the narrative purpose of dooku's subservience to sheev.
Dooku needed to be the head of the CIS because he was charismatic and wise. There's no way to write Maul, the man with devil horns and a fully tattooed face, as that. Dooku as a fallen Jedi but necessarily Sith would have been great.
Dooku was a double-traitor. He was actually trying to assist the Jedi against the true threat while he was going about his secessionist political agenda. But the Jedi are far too complacent to be reasoned with. By the end of Episode 2 Dooku has effectively shown the audience that the Jedi are fricked.
Right, Dooku offers Obi-Wan to unite and overthrow Sidious, but then Windu and Yoda's hubris tells them he's just lying about the whole thing.
Dooku didn't want to destroy the Jedi, he wanted to save the Republic. "An idealist, not a murderer." He always planned to betray Palpy and not embrace the Dark Side fully, not realizing that he was just another damn fiddle for him.
What was based is that he joined the club with Vader for being 1/2 characters to use the force to do something practical. Vader triggers the carbon freezing chamber to try and get Luke. Maul uses a piece of debris to open a door and not break his stride in retreating to better ground. None of these Black folk can think of something practical like using the force to kill people with ball bearings.
>something practical
>like using the force to kill people with ball bearings
>practical
If they wanted to use the force to kill they'd just shoot force lightning. That is "practical". Go watch X-Men for that Magneto shit.
Or pull a bridge down on someone. Or use the force to trigger one of those doors that would cut you in half. Or use it to pull the control sticks of a pilot and turn their ship into 9/11. Or use it to untie a guy's shoe while fighting. Or to frick with the zeroing on a blaster's optics. Or to make a guy think he's crossing a gantry but it's really a bottomless pit. Or to fight with eight lightsabers floating around you.
Point is that nobody uses it for anything practical--it's like a wizard's spell or superhero power more than a wise fighting monk/knight's tool.
The only third practical use I can think of is Corran Horn pulling open the luggage compartment on a shuttle to distract hijackers.
>pull a bridge down on someone
Dooku would like to know your location.
>How Hal handles the romance
https://files catbox moe/bx23kr mp4
Just add the periods where they got to be.
From Hal's Edit.
No autopilot here.
https://files catbox moe/k55c0p mp4
From Hal's edit of TPM.
Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones are trash. But Revenge of the Sith? HOLY FRICKING KINO BRO. THAT is Star Wars to me. Anakin going HAM on Obi Wan for 35 minutes at the end? Amazing. Obi-Wan Kenobi saying 'hello there'? Iconic.
For one thing they are actually written and edited very well, in that they are easy to follow and have an actual dynamic between big scenes and small scenes. Compare it to blockbusters today, that are just messy and nonsensical, where more is more, bigger is better, all the time.
Please be bait
Frick you
Cry more, dellow fellagate.
Rise of Skywalker with its Dagger found in a cave marking the exact spot in the Death Star is a masterpiece. I don't think even Super Famicom RPGs would dare to make things like that.
It just looked stupid. Not everyone is an invested in the lore as you.
Maul living past Episode I as it is written I think just drags the character arc of Obi-Wan out too long. He has to be the one to defeat Maul because he has to avenge his Master, but having him live in this cycle of vengeance sort of undermines Obi-Wan as the morally unshakeable man he's shown to be. Maybe if Episode II was a more direct sequel and didn't skip a decade, you could have a story about hunting for Maul and not giving into hatred, Anakin wants to execute him and Obi-Wan stops him, and Maul is killed only when he turns that mercy against him. Something like that.
Otherwise, Obi-Wan being the headstrong scolding master we see in AOTC doesn't work as well-- of course he's wienery, he's the only living Jedi to have defeated a Sith Lord!
What a gay fricking thread.
Yes it sure is. Star Wars is super gay nerd shit and you should try to avoid and ignore it as much as possible when the geeks are discussing it. Run! Run!
I really do think this franchise is best served as an anime. It has all the hallmarks of one.
Watch the Alex Jones reviews
Based.
I rewatched the OT recently and the prequels really ruined this franchise.
>25 years on
>STILL seething
People malding over Yoda using a lightsaber or his fighting style always comes off as pure headcanon autism.
>He's a jedi
>He never said anything about not using a Lightsaber or that one shouldn't use one
>He's so small the only viable fighting style he could use against a human-sized character is abusing his small size to blitz them at angles a normal opponent couldn't
I think it comes down to Yoda being the wise master figure. He should be above fighting at all, not as some pacifist but just because jumping around swinging swords is shit the young guns do, not wise ancient sages. He should be meditating, dispensing wisdom, and any time he pulls a weapon the fight should be completely one-sided and last two seconds. The moment Dooku saw Yoda he should have shit himself, started running away, and lost a hand.
>He should be
Every time
But even Yoda himself said that self-defense is fair game, some people cannot be reasoned with, its not like he told Luke to talk the emperor into stop being a prick, he knew he had to be put down and trained Luke for that purpose;
Both Yoda and Obi-Wan wanted Luke to kill Vader.
So are you ready for New Jedi Order, with a whole new load of shit because Rey takes all the credit for what was thought, for years, to be Luke's role?
What would have happened if Lucas had made the Sequels and then sold Star Wars before making the Prequels?
I know the movies weren't released in this order or planned enough for it to be written like this, but is there a fanedit where she picks different names?
It would have been way more impactful and dare I say quinoa if she CHOSE the surname Solo. She has basically no links to the skywalkers, she was never even friends with luke or leia, but she was tight with chewie and her character parallels Han way more. Plus it's not even his surname, so it's not like she's blatantly shitting on some important dynasty within the franchise
the scene where a CGI camel farts in Jar Jar Bink's face is proof to me that the prequels really are misunderstood masterpieces
don't miss the extended version of this scene! (yes this is actually a thing)
>Specifically whether the prequels broke some kind of cardinal rule by showing Yoda, a jedi knight, using a lightsaber.
That's not what bothered me. What bothered me is that it looked so damn silly. Lucas was just cursed with a silly child's imagination, I guess.
Imagine the same Clones fight scene but instead of all the silly flipping and shit what if the scene took a more grave tone and actually tried to communicate the gravity and power of the old Jedi master?
Like most things in star wars, decent elements and settings always end up wasted on a writer/director with a dumb vision and no storytelling ability. Lucas should have hired writers and a director of photography and just been the head of effects design or something that he was good at and enjoyed.
OT - fairy tale based on Oriental and Occidental mythology and legends
PT - capeshit/anime/video game
Maybe this is why zoomers like it so much? They are broken. Modern media rot their brain. They don't care about atmosphere and monomyth, they care about 'lore' and what should or shouldn't be 'canon'
.
>OT - fairy tale based on Oriental and Occidental mythology and legends
>PT- fairy tale based on Oriental and Occidental mythology and legends
No, they are a CGI spectacle that feels like a video game you can't even play.
Boring locations, boring characters, plot is taken from Dune except done much worse.
Force went from being this mysterious magical power to capeshit/anime power levels.
>Boring locations
Frick outta here.
>plot taken from Dune
As someone who likes both, stop with this absolutely ridiculous midwit take.
They’re only alike when you pare them down to a degree that renders both of them meaningless.
It's pretty obvious that prequel Anakin is just Lucas version of Paul. Original Anakin/Vader was a different character.
It's not just midichlorians.
>Original Anakin/Vader was a different character.
We didn't know shit about Anakin in the OT.
We don't need to. It's the way he's portrayed, how characters see him, the fact that there's no mention of any prophecy.
OG Vader was just some guy wanting more power which is why he betrayed Jedi.
>OG Vader was just some guy wanting more power which is why he betrayed Jedi.
And?
And the prequel Anakin is a different character.
Well, he wasn't a chosen one in the original one, right? In the second one he's basically Kwisatz Haderach of the force.
Palpatine wasn't a former politician in the OT too, I don't get what point it is you're making
>Palpatine wasn't a former politician in the OT too
Yes he was. He was initially a puppet ruler until Lucas upgraded him to being the real big bad.
And Goku is the Kwisatch Haderach of the Saiyans.
And Neo is the Kwisatch Haderach of the matrix.
You’re butting against the Chosen One mythological trope and it’s confusing you.
Kwisatz. Obviously.
Aside from being chosen ones who are on a desert world at some point in their lives, the two are nothing alike.
Fricking hell. You DUNC tourists need to get out of my damn fandom.
>Corruption of esteemed institutions both political and religious by malicious actors
>Warning against adherence to vague prophecy and worship of 'chosen ones' as they can make you complacent
>Reminder that trading freedom for safety will net neither
There is quite obviously a lot more Dune influence in the PT than a simple desert chosen one story. Star Wars being influenced by Dune is long known. This isn't a fotm thing.
That’s great but you’re conveniently ignoring that their entire basis for existence is completely different. Anakin was to bring an era of genuine peace to the galaxy before his lust for power trapped him into being an eternal toady for political space Satan.
Paul was meant to lead the universe down a path so horrifying and destructive that it would spur a new era of excellence and competition (not peace) as a means of ceasing the stagnation of man. His inability to do so to the extremes required kicked the can down the road and made him a failed messiah.
The corruption of religious institutions barely works for either terribly well unless you pretend that the Jedi in the prequels were the bad guys who became corrupt instead of good guys who were outplayed by the bad guys.
MAYBE you could recycle that point for the republic, but at that point you’re trying to claim palace intrigue and the rise of dictatorship for Dune… at which point actual history is going to need to be contended with.
>paul was meant..
Paul was a creation of the Bene Gesserit and a means to grant them absolute authority. A messiah prophecy was seeded that would grant him the devotion of the people. They lost control. Their hubris turned their greatest tool against their designs.
Except that the prophecy exists independently of the Bene Gesserit and is fulfilled by Leto II when Paul fails. The Bene Gesserit thought they had more control than they did.
Regardless: this doesn’t refute my point even were it on target.
>Leto II
lol, it's funny how you people literally can't think outside of established canon. When Herbert wrote the original Dune Leto II literally wasn't even a thing. I don't know what happened in later books, but in the original one the prophecy was created by Bene Gesserit for their own protection. They never planned for their Kwisatz Haderach to be the leader of a bunch of desert savages.
>Force went from being this mysterious magical power to capeshit/anime power levels.
25 years on this guy is still up in arms about midichlorians
>feels like a video game you can't even play.
This is the most boomer shit I've ever read
>There's a sand planet
>It's copied from Dune
Sand planet, messiah, he becomes evil, he has prophetic dreams, his wife dies during childbirth, he has twins - boy and a girl, Jedi use Bene Gesserit voice.
>Messiah, chosen one, the one
Ah yes a common narrative trope
>Prophetic dream/self fulfilling prophecy
Another common narrative trope
>Wife dies in childbirth
...
>Twins
Leia being his twin was a last minute change
>They don't care about atmosphere and monomyth
homie the Prequels arguably have more shit ripped straight from Campbell than the OT did
>It's like poetry
We don't deserve George.
holy shit he shot the same scene twice, give this man the nobel peace prize
Lol, I just don't understand prequelgays. It's like they are blind or something. We went from magical scenes like the entire Dagobah sequence to Jedi being boring incompetent buttholes sitting in a CGI room for 3 movies.
How the frick can you defend it?
>we went from [scene I like] to [scene I don't like]
Very insightful
Like I said, I just don't understand you. The prequels look like shit. Flat lighting, CGI everywhere, force and Jedi are so overused they become boring.
Yoda pulling the X-wing from the swamp is far more impactful than armies of droids being easily destroyed by lightsabers.
Were you actually impressed by CGI Yoda and CGI Ian McDiarmid jumping around and hitting each other with glowing sticks?
>Like I said, I just don't understand you.
I don't understand you either. I'm not sure there's anything I'm meant to say to change your mind here.
I just liked a movie that you didn't
You can dislike the way the Jedi are portrayed in the prequels, and prefer the originals and that's fine, but imagine missing the point this hard.
>missing the point
So the prequels are boring and look like shit on purpose? Whoa.
'I was bored' is the high level film analysis I come to Cinemaphile for
watch the RLM reviews
I did
They suck
5>3>4>1>6>2
>ranking Phantom Menace higher than Return of the Jedi
Imagine saying that outloud
ROTJ is boring, PM is cool and /comfy/
Most of the films rely on one or two scenes to make people like them. 6 really doesn't have much going for it.
Peak lightsaber duels and mustafar is kino
3 > 4 > 2 > 5 > 1
6 is hard to rank when the throne room scenes should be at the very top and the rest of the movie should be at the very bottom
I will never understand the love for Revenge of the Sith. It's the same prequel slop. I guess people like it because something important finally happens?
Because epic lightsaber lava fight! I saw it when I was 10 and I peed my undies
>I just don't understand
>I don't understand
>I will never understand
Someone help this anon out. He seems confused....
I like how everyone who trashes the prequels slowly just comes out as a joyless loser no one wants to be around. They're kino, no matter how cheesy they can be at times, just admit you don't like seeing others enjoy things you don't like.
OT babies be like
>since Yoda was extremely old, about to die in the OT, and only fit for giving out sage advice, that's how he always was. No way he ever picked a saber up and had to deal with something martially.
OT chads don't care about this nonsense. We know it's just a film and all the Yoda scenes in the original movies are pure kino. In the prequels he's just a shitty CGI puppet like most characters.
OT purists are just loser nerds who hated that Lucas decided to give the PT its own identity rather than rehash the OT like a certain untalented hack would.
>own identity
That's fine, except this identity is proto-capeshit and its influence on cinema is purely negative.
And how is it proto-capeshit?
Kek and the OT somehow wasn't proto-capeshit?
Of course it wasn't. The OT were well crafted adventure movies with good cast and great special effects.
How is it not? It pioneered the overuse of CGI and the moronic notion that bigger equals better.
>the moronic notion that bigger equals better.
Because people expected things to get better with the advent of better technology. It was gonna happen no matter what.
>OT had great special effects
>but the Prequels overused special effects
The OT were just as influencial on the spectacle of their era as the Prequels were on theirs
You're literally just crying about new thing being bad
The OT was grounded in reality. The scenes were cool and short. In the prequels you have cartoons doing cartoonish shit. It's not impressive or interesting.
>The OT was grounded in reality.
It's people dressed as bears hitting people dressed as storm troopers. Prequels have millions of nameless CGI models exploding, dying and cluttering the screen.
>Prequels have millions of nameless CGI models exploding, dying and cluttering the screen.
The OT would've had the same exact shit had they been released today.
George always wanted to try that stuff out he was just limited by the tech of the time. You have to understand how exciting CGI would have been to old timers who were forced to use puppets and camera tricks before that. We've gotten bored of it but it wasn't boring then.
Those are the guys that got rightfully clowned on in school.
Why do prequelbabies miss the point this hard? The point was that the things Yoda fricking said about the Jedi in Empire, are contradicted by the CGI version of him in the prequels. Do...do you kids just not understand why he was a small 3 foot alien in the first place? The entire point of Yoda is that "look at this unassuming weirdo on a swamp planet, you wouldn't be able to tell he's the strongest Jedi ever". It's the drunken master, foolish old master trope. It's literally older than fricking dirt.
Yoda clearly had a lot of time to think and change his ideas in the 20 years he spent in exile. Losing to sidious in episode 3 was a harrowing moment for him where his outlook began to change
Yeah that's retroactive nonsense to force a square peg into a round hole and just makes Yoda look like more of an butthole with added context that never made any sense to his character.
That and feeling the death of every other Jedi.
Force Imbued Katanas or Proto Sabers?
I think both are really cool, shame we never saw either on screen
I always thought this concept of tech stagnating and regressing from the PT to the OT to be weird, but it's all starting to make perfect sense now watching everything I took for granted get slowly shittier in the absence of true economic freedom
>muh CGI
Pretty irrelevant when the scenes still look like shit.
All you've done is confirm you can't actually tell when something is CGI or not kek
Dude the prequels actually make hella sense to me now that I've watched Clone Wars
>this entire thread
movies rated in order of goodness
1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > 5 > 6
Has Yoda actually ever trained anyone who didn't fall to the darkside? Dooku (Sith). Dooku trained Qui Gon trained Obi trained Anakin (Sith). Obi/Yoda trained Luke (Sith and/or kinslayer). Luke trained Ben (Sith). His coaching tree is a bit shit to be honest.
He isn't meant to be idolized. He's a wise, but very passive and avoidant individual. He could have intervened many times and chose not too, basically a coward.
The prequels establish yoda explicitly as a complete frick up.
the clone wars cartoons then turn him into an even bigger moron.
Had Qui-Gon survived, Anakin would never have turned to the Dark Side. Obi-Wan was too dogmatic for Anakin.
every kreia's padawan fell to the dark side but you chuds love her
I’M
SORRY
LUCAS
Christopher Lee carried episode 2
Many such cases.
>No you see Luke, I actually just fricked off after I lost a fight with the Emperor and decided to do nothing about the Empire for 20 plus years, I also explicitly told Kenobi to split you and your sister up and sentence you to poverty on Tattoine because idk, sounded funny at the time. Oh also I did absolutely nothing about Order 66 and sort of just dropped the ball on Sheev becoming Emperor in the first place, you could say it was my fault actually, I had numerous boardroom meetings with him and just didn't sense a thing dude.
>oh the force truly is mystical btw!