Tim Drake and Jason Todd

I feel like DC doesn't really know what to do with them anymore.

CRIME Shirt $21.68

Yakub: World's Greatest Dad Shirt $21.68

CRIME Shirt $21.68

  1. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Tim has enough material to find him a place and niche if they actually cared
    Jason is inherently flawed in that he's best as an antihero vigilante but can't actually kill important villains.

  2. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Because there are too many robins. Damian crowded things enough, but trying to make living Jason a Hero instead of just leaving him dead, or just an occasional antagonist, overfilled things.

    That, and no writer at DC grew up with either of them and fell in love with them. Like, Tom Taylor grew up with Dick Grayson. He's having the time of his life on Nightwing, even if there are obvious problems with his Nightwing run.

    Even the recent "But Tim is the BISEXUAL Robin" series, though it got a bit better, doesn't come from a place of love for TIM, but from a desire to have more LGBTQ+ content in the Batman cast.

    And EVERY DAMIAN STORY SINCE REBIRTH has been more about "But we HAVE TO USE Damian! He's the CURRENT ROBIN!" instead of actually having a good story to tell with him. They REALLY tried with the new League of Assassins b.s. but that was SUCH b.s.

    It's finally gotten better by teaming him up with Bruce again, but then they gave him YET ANOTHER solo book.

    Also, fricking wtf is going on in OP's pic? Jason had a dad, he had TWO moms. He didn't "grow up on the streets" HE ALWAYS HAD A ROOF OVER HIS HEAD. It was a shitty roof, especially after his dad vanished on him. But then Batman took him in within DAYS. Sheesh.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Also, fricking wtf is going on in OP's pic? Jason had a dad, he had TWO moms. He didn't "grow up on the streets" HE ALWAYS HAD A ROOF OVER HIS HEAD. It was a shitty roof, especially after his dad vanished on him. But then Batman took him in within DAYS. Sheesh.
      2000's edge writers wanted to make Jason's life harder than it was. They missed the point that Jason was a down on his luck kid with a heart of gold, not actually a street tough. He panicked about Ma Gunn's school teaching kids how to do crime

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I think this is Geoff Johns' doing, his TT run seemed to be really selective with acknowledging characters' pre-history and was really inconsistent with that too (Impulse especially).

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Even the recent "But Tim is the BISEXUAL Robin" series, though it got a bit better, doesn't come from a place of love for TIM, but from a desire to have more LGBTQ+ content in the Batman cast.
      I'd disagree on this one piece specifically. For all the flaws of the run, Fitzmartin picked up on specific parts of Tim's personality that no one had bothered to acknowledge since Dixon left the first time.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        And what exactly would those be?

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Tim having a personal life that he wanted to maintain instead of just being a hero and all his best friends being the titans(Superboy is barely in his original run)
          Tim having self-doubts and
          Tim actually liking solving mysteries and wanting to be a detective but not just haxxed so he's automatically Batman tier.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I'm glad someone else saw this besides me. Yes, that's what I meant. Fitzmartin's Tim was the first Tim in decades I could picture awkwardly geeking out over Ted Kord, or sitting around for a game of DnD with the (non-superhero) boys, or actually wanting a life beyond Robin.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Because bisexuals are more interesting than straights

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You freaks literally need PReP to live.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            She completely whiffed the first point by having Bernard be aware of Tim's identity as Robin. Tim having self doubts has shown up multiple times. Her mystery was a boring slog dragged out far too long and I object to the notion that having a mystery in a mystery/action book is anything more than the base standard.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I'm just not interested in reading about homosexuals.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Bringing Damian back from the dead is one of DC's biggest mistakes ever. They had the perfect excuse to just let him rest and move on, which basically everyone was content to do, and nobody was really clamoring for new Damian stories. So fricking weird.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It would’ve also been a good excuse to have more Jason and Bruce interactions. Also you could have a new reason to give Dick and Bruce a rift since Dick and Damien were close. It would’ve been better development for the other charecters.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >have more Jason and Bruce interactions
          >a new reason to give Dick and Bruce a rift
          They did do that when Damian was dead.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I know but they could’ve kept doing it.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              And you want them in a constant state of angst over Damian's death?

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                NTA but I would be in favor of anything that meant NO Demon Spawn.

                You can't rape the willing.

                Only a small percentage of teenage asian girls and an even smaller percentage of the overweight middle age southern landwhale housewives fap fic audience want this.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Phausto
                >not for gay men
                Bravo!

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Tim X Jason is more popular than ANY of their respective heterosexual pairings...canon or otherwise.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Imagine still seething over Damian in current year.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                They could have slowly gotten over it. Damian's uniform could have taken the place of Jason's uniform in the ol Batcave

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >basically everyone was content to do, and nobody was really clamoring for new Damian stories
        That's clearly wrong cause they brought him back.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          As far as I can tell it was all Tomasi. The entire New 52 Bat-team (except him) had moved on from Damian. Snyder couldn't give less of a frick about him and was clearly more concerned with establishing his own characters and lore.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Synder was uncomfortable writing Damian because his own son was around that age.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Tbf, they did try to introduce Carrie Kelley as his replacement but then Frank Miller got all pissy about it so they had to abort.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          ....DC respects Frank Miller more than Alan Moore?

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            unironically yes. DC editorial hates Moore, have for years.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >That, and no writer at DC grew up with either of them
      wtf are you talking about? Tynion, Zdarsky and Bendis are all massive timgays. They just suck as writers

  3. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >I feel like DC doesn't really know what to do with them anymore.

    That is true. The problem with them is Damian, who kind of steals the niche off of both of them. Grant Morrison didn't realize the amount of problems he caused by creating him.
    It used to be that Jason is the black sheep, the violent one, the one that went bad, and Tim is the normal one, the Robin's Robin, the one with no gimmicks. But Damian is both of them in the same package and he outranks them by virtue of being a biological son instead of an adopted one.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Damian isn't the black sheep, he's literally Bruce's son, he's as accepted as he can be, he's just autistic.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        He's the black sheep because he kills people.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          That's Jason, outside of when they tried to turn him evil, Damian is supposed to not kill.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Damian was literally introduced cutting heads off people.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Exactly, and Jason wasn't, but one of the most memorable things he's done is pic related, characters change.
              Like I said, Jason abandoned Bruce's teachings, while Damian embraced them.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                He should go back to doing this. He doesn’t have to kill big name characters to work as a crime lord.
                Why they took a potentially great concept and completely wasted it is beyond me. He doesn’t belong with the family and it hinders the characters of everyone involved keeping him flip flopping there on the edge.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Because people will just keep asking why isn't killing joker

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                To be fair Joker should had been execute a long time ago regardless of insanity plead.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >He doesn’t belong with the family and it hinders the characters of everyone involved keeping him flip flopping there on the edge.
                And that's where you and everyone who started learning about the character from UtRH are wrong, Jason was a good Robin who died a hero's death. Any attempt to revision him as this bad egg turned psychopath is dishonest, which is why the characterization of Jason is and who casual fans think he is will always be at odds.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I thought that was the point. He was a hopeful kid from shit circumstances who was slowly getting worn mentally by the job, yet in his final moments proved that he was a real hero. Had he died that way and stayed dead he would’ve been fine. It was bringing him back that broke him. Learning that his death meant nothing to the man he loved almost like a father and that his murderer got off scott free, plus the fricked circumstances he was resurrected in, that is what broke him. Bad angry kid revisionism has tainted what made his character turn so memorable.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >He was a hopeful kid from shit circumstances who was slowly getting worn mentally by the job,
                Out of fricking nowhere he decides he's going to take justice in his own hands and (maybe) tosses a guy off a ledge, when up until then he was still a cheery kid in Detective at the same time.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >to work as a crime lord.
                moronic take that make zero sense and don't work. 1. DC don't acknowledge drugs or rape or mubane crimes these days. 2. The only RH fans who cling to Jason killing like its their lifeline want him to kill crime lords, not turn him into one.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >DC don't acknowledge drugs or rape or mubane crimes these days
                Why not?

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Too controversial, especially drugs. Capes are about beating the shit out of super rogues, having super family dramas, or out saving the world from aliens and multiverse crisis.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Because you get shit like pic. Superheroes and real-world stuff almost never work.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            In other words Damian and Jason are inversions. Damian starts out as a killer but is redeemed with his love for his father and making the conscious choice to follow his values. Comparatively Jason started out believing in Bruce but became a killer and one of Bruce's biggest critics and opponents. One could say that Bruce's experiences with Jason made him more capable of understanding and working with Damian.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Damian is the opposite of Jason, instead of abandoning Bruce's teachings to start killing, he's supposed to abandon the League's teaching and embrace Bruce's crusade.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        So he steals Cassandra's gimmick too.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          This. I literally can't find any difference between Damian and Cassandra on a conceptual level. They're mechanically the same, just with different personalities, and I don't think "whiny brat" is a niche that the Batfamily desperately needed to fill.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Cass and Damian are tied for the most boring setup by both being LE ULTIMATE KILLING MACHINE RAISED BY NEGLECTFUL ASSASSIN PARENT. Damian wins out by being Bruce's kid.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The difference is Damian appeals to shotagays and Cass appeals to yellow fevergays.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            they're similar but come from 2 different angles. Cass has much more humility and a certain level of self loathing that she had to work through. Damian has arrogance and a sense of entitlement that he had to work through. I'd say it's enough of a distinction to warrant them both existing and it's sort of disappointing that they have interacted so little at this point

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Two sides of the same coin. Would be nice if the comics actually played with this

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Their personalities are entirely different and while Damian isn't unskilled, he isn't a prodigy to the point where his other skills are impossible to develop. Cass is effectively autistic.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Cass is more interesting as a character because she has glaring flaws, that she'll never truly overcome. Not unlike Bruce's trauma forever driving him to inexerably to ruin, she will never overcome her childhood conditioning.

              She has fighting skills in the upper 1% of DC but is hopeless in most other areas. Meanwhile Damien is Bruce but without any flaws or trauma. He was born and bred to be Batman from the ground up... but maybe that's the flaw? He's Batman without the reason or need for it, which is kind of a flaw I suppose. It does highlight him being an unnecessary character though. He lacks a narrative need unless DC kills Bruce at some point.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Yeah but he's doing it to get Daddy s love not because he actually believes in the mission.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          huh

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Morrison intended Damian to be a Batman Jones character who comes in for one story, turns Batman's life upside down, and then leaves without a trace. If DC let him stay dead, none of this would be a problem and Tim could've easily gone back to being the default Robin.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Ah yes, Batman's young son with ties to the Al Ghul family, SURELY they'll let him stay dead, right?
        Is Morrison stupid?

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          No, he just tells people whatever will make him look best. Which is why he says things like a character introduced as Batman's son with a supervillain who becomes the colead of the Batman line after literally kicking another character out in a run that lasted seven years was only ever meant to last a single story

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >he
            They/them

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              She uses any pronoun actually, so he is correct.

  4. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Just spread them out. A million Bat family members wouldn't be as unbearable if you moved some into other DC cities.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That doesn't work, from reader's perspective they're all in the same location no matter where they are in the world. All of DC universe is one city, even distant galaxies.

  5. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It's a lot simpler than DC wants to admit.

    >Dick
    Nightwing, leader of Titans and hero in his own right. Should have a solo and feature prominently in Titans.

    >Jason
    Bring back and firmly establish Red Hood and the Outlaws. Keep him limited to this team book but featured as the defacto leader. Katana, Black Lightning, Metamorpho, etc. as a semi-fluid membership more akin to Marvel's Defenders.

    >Tim
    Needs a new name, I guess Red Robin. Young Justice team title focusing on adventures with Kon and Impulse and the others. More lighthearted than the dour little moody bisexual dribble he's become.

    >Damien
    Son of Batman, current Robin. Shares a title with Bruce and has a solo which features the martial arts stuff he's got going on.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Jason
      >Bring back and firmly establish Red Hood and the Outlaws
      Good idea.
      >Katana, Black Lightning, Metamorpho, etc.
      Shit idea.

      >Tim
      >Needs a new name
      Good idea.
      >I guess Red Robin.
      Shit idea

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        That's why I suggested a rotating roster like Defenders. Each storyarc could swap a few members not doing much with new potential members.

        Red Robin is indeed a terrible name... how about "The Swallow!"

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Red Hood and the Outlaws
          >Literally just steal Batman's Outsiders team
          They will call you a hack and they will be right.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Why not make use of it, especially since Batman isn't using it. Hell... call it Red Hood and The Outsiders. Why even beat around the bush. Red Hood is the Robin that Bruce neglects, Outsiders are the team he neglects. It writes itself.

            Plus, it means one less team for Batman to run.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              You serious? They just did <Insert BatKids> and the Outsiders a few years ago. It was ass.
              It literally never turns out well. Look at how bad the Teen Titans were when they swapped Dick for Tim. Or Dick for Damian. Or how critically panned the Nu52 Red Hood and the Outlaws book was, where it was Jason, Dick's best friend, and Dick's ex-girlfriend.
              Hack.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Did you ever consider it was the execution of the idea and not the idea itself that was at fault?

                Concepts aren't bad or good, it depends on how they're written.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Black Lightning, Katana, Geo-Force, etc. deserve better than being used to prop up the second worst Robin just because he can't carry a solo on his own.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                None of those characters are popular, especially not on their own. Being used to prop up a character people actually like, such as Jason, is the best thing that could happen for them.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              So Jason gets to keep getting Bruce or Dick's sloppy seconds, well that would fit with him not having an original identity and trying to cuck Dick out of his girlfriends.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Oh, he swallows, alright.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Oh gosh, I didn't think of that. It's a little inappropriate isn't it?

            How about we highlight what makes Tim unique among the Robins, what's his defining trait. Well... Dick is the natural athlete, Jason is the rule breaker and Damien is literally bred for the life. Hmm... Tim is the best detective though! The Private Dick... nah, too close to Dick Grayson.

            Oh, he always gets to the bottom of crimes. His true power is getting to the bottom of things, so how about "The Power Bottom!"

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      None of these characters need or can carry - today - an on-going solo. Marvel only has a bunch of solos because they are (a) coasting on some comic buyers/readers who are pulling shit for nostalgia reason but still only have a limited budget (b) they keep relaunching and dropping titles in doing so.

      DC has the right idea in doing a six issue Tim mini-series, or similar for the others, but none of them need a month-in month-on ongoing that's going to hit 40+ issues.

      Those days are long gone and it's about time people accept that.

      Demon Spawn definitely doesn't need his own ongoing other than a mini. And Tim and Jason only need a mini once every 18-24 months. In fact, a team up book might help them.

      DC had the right idea with dropping all these Gotham adjacent characters into Tec and leaving Bruce and the Demon Spawn on Batman, and letting the rest guest as needed, and necessary for ACTUAL STORY REASONS.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It remains baffling that they never thought to seriously pair or team up the Robins when they're sitting right there as a ready made mix-and-match supergroup.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          do you even batman and robin eternal

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            yeah, there are examples of it happening, and it works well! but they're minis or in-book events. i mean as a serious attempt to make a more sustainable book specifically about them, not batman and his rotating extras or whatever.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          They have their own lives anon, just because they're brothers, it doesn't mean they have to have some official team book or something.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            yeah but they all live and work in the same place and regularly do stuff together in some capacity anyway. there are long-running superteams who don't even meet those minimal criteria. to me it just seems like an obvious way to try to increase interest when solo titles are dying out.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >yeah but they all live and work in the same place
              No? Dick lives in Bludhaven, Jason has an apartment in The Hill, Tim has his murder boat on Gotham's gay district, and Damian lives with Bruce in his brownstone.
              Gotham is a big place, they see each other regularly, but still have their own separate lives.
              >regularly do stuff together in some capacity anyway
              Yeah, because they're family and live somewhat close, that's as much as they want to work together, they're all already part of the Bat-Family, they don't need to make some kind of official Robins Club.
              Also, like you said, they still team up somewhat regularly, whenever there's a crossover or event, they all work together.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                these are all five-minute bat-drives from each other and nothing when they were all capable of having routine team meetings on the other side of the continent.
                i'm just saying it's weird that they always try to make the group of co-workers filter through batman or one-on-one cameos instead of doing consistent work to try to boost the audience. that seems like less hassle than stunts.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I guess I just personally don't want them to have some constant team, I'd rather they all had their own separate teams honestly, the Bat-Family already interacts with each other all the fricking time, making them a full on team feels redundant to me.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                as an example: consider the jla. they don't live together and rarely cross into each other's personal material, but there's no insinuation that regular jla duties pretend them from doing their usual solo activities. it's just a big handwave that schedules have infinite space for storyline purposes, much like the bats magically never need sleep because of monks or whatever it is.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >they don't live together and rarely cross into each other's personal material,
                And that's part of the appeal or the JLA, the crossover aspect of it, they all exist in their own separate corners of the world, but them teaming up as a team makes it special.
                Teaming up the Bat-Family is just something we see every other day.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                that's true, but jla is also an ongoing book.
                i think you're right that gotham stuff is already inbred enough that it probably doesn't NEED an ongoing, but more regular minis might be nice. or maybe just devote more of tec to it and have batman appear even less since he's already oversaturated.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Frick off batfamilygay, the Robins are fricking awful when all of them are forced to constantly interact with each other because they get stripped of their personality and get whittled to one or two traits.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            that's a problem of many team books because many writers are not capable of writing ensembles within limited spaces.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Peter Tomasi did it with his GLC run.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                it obviously happens from time to time, but man is it a crapshoot. sometimes you also just get lucky and the writer can't do an ensemble but happens to focus on a character you like.
                imagine
                >batkids team book but it's just more wank about dick's relationships

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                He's the only Michaels in a sea of Jannettys. What do you expect?

  6. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Didio destroyed Tim as a character by dismantling and eliminating everything unique about his setup and despite something like six reboots having passed DC has actively refused to return him to the status quo that was popular and allowed for flexibility in writing him. Tim is the normal guy amid a sea of vigilante lifestylers and fight autists and for some reason DC hates that to the point they made his boyfriend aware of his secret identity. Jason is pretty fricking simple. His fans want a vigilant who kills. They don't want him spending all his time Gotham, don't want him connected at the hip to Batman, and they want him to shoot the occasional motherfricker in the face. They don't want psycho off-brand Punisher, they don't want edgelord villain, they want a guy making a rational argument that Bruce's method isn't working and is going to add a little murder to get things moving. But DC refuses to do that. It's not that DC doesn't know what to with them or an inherent issue with the characters, it's DC refusing to back down from bad ideas and not listening to what fans want. They're not even unique in this. DC doesn't know what to do with Babs, Cass, Steph, Dick to some extent, and Damian either.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >DC doesn't know what to do with Babs, Cass, Steph, Dick to some extent, and Damian either.
      Just say everyone lol

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It is everyone. I don't think DC even knows what they want to do with Batman himself.

        The trick with writing these character-filled multi-franchise universes is to find a comfortable niche for each character that doesn't overlap with other characters too much, and editorially force them to stay there. Currently nobody has a niche, they just kind of exist in the air and do random things.

  7. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Jason being the antihero bat character is great. He just needs something more consistent. Tim is redundant with Damian around. He should just go back to the Teen Titans and stay there.

  8. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    DC doesn't know what to do with their characters in general and that has never stopped them once.

  9. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Jason will never be "fixed" because no one can agree on how his character should be.
    The most common opinion I've seen among "hardcore" comic fans is that Jason should just go full villain again, or at least gets his fangs back and leave the Bat-Family for good. He shouldn't even be friends with them, at best he should be the family member no one wants to talk about, and at worst another criminal that they need to stop, maybe even bring back his crime lord aspect.
    On the other hand, I've seen a lot of "casual" fans that like Jason as part of the Bat-Family, even if it's a somewhat tense relationship, people seem to like him as the bad boy, the violent one that at most might be fine with murder depending on the circumstances, that still teams up with Bruce and the rest when the situation calls for it, the one that will hold himself back for them, and maybe even hang out with them out of costume.
    There may be a middle ground for these different interpretations of Jason, but I feel like that wouldn't make anyone happy.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The issue is that he's been revived for so long, that he's already gone through the most obvious character arcs and even back and forth repeating the arcs. Bringing him back from the dead initially is a way to highlight Bruce's biggest mistake and for Bruce to try to "fix" that mistake which is why he's brought back as a broken man. That kind of character arc doesn't work in a perpetual ongoing story. It works for a time as Bruce tries to redeem Jason from total villainy, and thus prove Bruce's character growth and ability to be a better father and mentor than he was before. But Jason can't be a killer who is perpetually out there in the world because Bruce is always responsible for him and needs to stop him. So in order for his character to be around in an infinitely ongoing series, his character needs too find an equilibrium where he is at a place where he's not a killer but still offers something unique to the batfamily dynamics, which is hard to write when it's become such a crowd.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >So in order for his character to be around in an infinitely ongoing series, his character needs too find an equilibrium where he is at a place where he's not a killer but still offers something unique to the batfamily dynamics, which is hard to write when it's become such a crowd.

        Keep him around as someone with the moral courage to do what must be done. He can use stun rounds and/or rubber bullets against your average mooks, but not be afraid to kill someone what needs killing. Bruce can't make that leap, he's too broken. Jason doesn't have to be, and he doesn't have to be either an absolute paragon, or an unrepentant murderer.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Jason will never be "fixed" because no one can agree on how his character should be.
      You homosexuals keep saying that but DC has been very consistent with what they want to use Jason for and it has never been about "fixing" him. It's about proving he is irremediable and the reason why his life is shit. The problem with Jason is that he is the violent poor kid strawman stuck in a wasp's wishfulfilling fantasy.

      The issue is that he's been revived for so long, that he's already gone through the most obvious character arcs and even back and forth repeating the arcs. Bringing him back from the dead initially is a way to highlight Bruce's biggest mistake and for Bruce to try to "fix" that mistake which is why he's brought back as a broken man. That kind of character arc doesn't work in a perpetual ongoing story. It works for a time as Bruce tries to redeem Jason from total villainy, and thus prove Bruce's character growth and ability to be a better father and mentor than he was before. But Jason can't be a killer who is perpetually out there in the world because Bruce is always responsible for him and needs to stop him. So in order for his character to be around in an infinitely ongoing series, his character needs too find an equilibrium where he is at a place where he's not a killer but still offers something unique to the batfamily dynamics, which is hard to write when it's become such a crowd.

      >It works for a time as Bruce tries to redeem Jason from total villainy,
      No? Bruce was a complete frick-up with Jaybin and should be in jail for it, while utrh, the one arc Dc rehash, isn't about redeeming whoever or making anyone better. It's about presenting a trolley problem for Batman and getting dunked on for it.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >It's about proving he is irremediable
        Literally the opposite, almost every new story Jason gets tries to justify his existence, sometimes even making Batman the bad guy.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Name five.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Red Hood and the Outlaws
            >Red Hood Outlaw
            >Task Force Z
            >Joker the Man who Stopped Laughing
            >Red Hood: The Hill
            Whether it's leading a team with their own brand of justice, looking over young criminals, working towards redemption, going on a suicide mission, or actually just trying to enjoy life for once, every new story tries to justify why Jason shouldn't just go back to being dead.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Congrats for the wiki search, none of these present Bruce as a bad guy. They also don't justify Jason's existence as much as they are just simply using him. As a villain and screw-up in TFZ and Joker, respectively.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >none of these present Bruce as a bad guy
                I was actually referring to that iconic moment in RHATO when Bruce beats Jason's ass after he shot the Penguin, pretty much every time he and Jason come at odds, Bruce is a bad guy for Jason, such as in TFZ where Jason went against Bruce's orders and didn't drop the case.
                >As a villain and screw-up in TFZ and Joker, respectively.
                He was not a villain in TFZ, and considering he saved Gotham in the Joker book, he wasn't a screw-up, he just can't compete with Clown force, no one can.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Do you also remember that iconic RHATO moment where they hug it off, aggree Jason went off the rail and shouldn't step a foot back in Gotham,? It's like two issues later.
                >TFZ where Jason went against Bruce's orders and didn't drop the case.
                And that presents Bruce as in the wrong because?
                >He was not a villain in TFZ,
                Jason is (forced to) work with one evil while fighting two other worst evil. He is the villain that trick the heroes in all the scenes he share with the batfam.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Do you also remember that iconic RHATO moment where they hug it off, aggree Jason went off the rail and shouldn't step a foot back in Gotham,?
                Yes, and that doesn't last because almost immediately Jason comes back to Gotham to take over the Iceberg Lounge and Batman gives him shit.
                Bruce isn't a constant antagonistic force with Jason, but due to their disagreements, he does end up playing the antagonist from time to time.
                >Jason is (forced to) work with one evil
                Harvey Dent isn't evil, he's constantly been portrayed as one Batman's most sympathetic enemies.
                Two-Face might be evil, but Harvey has consistently tried to do good.
                >He is the villain that trick the heroes in all the scenes he share with the batfam.
                Ever heard of an anti-hero? That's what Jason is, he's not a villain.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Bruce isn't a constant antagonistic force with Jason,
                He is and vice versa. But believes it or not Bruce isn't portrayed as in the wrong for it and Jason alwasy quick to forgive him or find him excuses. See GK where Bruce drugs and tortures him but Jason still pat his shoulders when Selina "dies" because that harsh. You're complaining about Jason talking back to Bruce.
                >Two-Face in TFZ
                He starts and work for a very shady organization with shady motives.
                >anti-hero
                I've heard and DC wish they had this much range. Though Jason get shades of it occasionally (or anti-villain), it's always root back to heroes and villains with DC.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >And that presents Bruce as in the wrong because?
                Because Jason did end up beating the bad guys through his methods, Bruce was trying to control the situation, but Jason talked him into letting him continue working on the case.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                He did but only after realizing him and Harvey have been played for tools by Bloom and some organization. Bruce is not wrong when they confront, and Jason think he right except he is a tool. He is not wrong for telling Bruce he is a b***h whenever he can because he rarely get called out for it, though.

  10. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Tim should retire to be gay with his boyfriend.
    Jason should rape Barbara.
    Dick should be revealed to be a sex addict and go into rehab.
    Damian should've stayed dead.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Jason wants to be Barbara's malewife, if anything, he wants her to rape him.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It'll be revealed that that's all a facade to hide his secret desire to be Barbara. It's all setup for when she comes out as a trans woman. Trust the plan.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Jason wants to be Barbara's malewife, if anything, he wants her to rape him.

          You frickers. It's a man after redemption. And if he can find it in toned ginger pussy then he should do what he can.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Jason is very lucky that Babs never got to read that letter, she would've been PISSED because of Jason basically saying
            >I'll be good if you let me your bf 🙂
            Seriously the most pathetic thing he's ever done.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              He’s been groomed into having a thing for older women. He thinks that it will fix him.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Jason needs to be ruined by blonde women, not redheads.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Maybe that's how DC can finally make Bette Kane relevant. She's unable to get Dick to notice her and thought she got over him, but instead falls for the bad boy Robin a step down. Well, would be better than the weird tease Johns did with her and Tim being together in the future (sometimes I wonder if that was meant to be Steph, but Johns gonna Johns either way).

  11. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    They should send Jason off world to shoot aliens in the face.

  12. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Do a time travel story where Jason runs into his past self when he was Robin. Except it's how he was actually written when he was Robin which was a happy-go-lucky kid who seemed like an exaggeration of Silver Age Dick, instead of the "he was always an edgy boi" retcon.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Jason's fall from grace definitely hits harder when they actually remember how he actually was before he died.
      Sure, there were some attempts to make him edgier, but overall, he wasn't really a bad Robin, specially compared to Dick.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Sure, there were some attempts to make him edgier, but overall, he wasn't really a bad Robin, specially compared to Dick.
        Blame Denny O'Neil for that one. Jim Starlin, while actually hating the character, made his downfall as a result of betrayal. It was Denny O'Neil who morphed it into Jason was a shit kid who brought it on himself.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Jason used to be so cute bros...

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Drawanons, if you're out there, could you please draw Alfred struggling to dye young Jason's red hair black because Jason's just so excited to be Robin

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Jason's red hair
            Morrison...

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              He started off as a blonde too, he's run the whole hair color gamut

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I wonder if he takes dye tips from Midnighter

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Rose actually.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Why do they keep pushing Rose on readers as if she was a catch?

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                she's hmong

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Old man boomers and their love of SEA people was a mistake.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I don't blame them for fans not liking Jason on his first run.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Not post-crisis, where the art anon posted was from

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I forget he started when he was a little guy. Funny little dude only fit the smallest costume. He never grew into the big one.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Jason's death certificate report lists him as 5'4'' or so. People forget he was only 2 years older than Tim

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              When are they going to reveal he's been wearing gigantic lifts since coming back?

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                That'd be more humorous than the Lazarus Pit giving him a magic growth spurt or steroid pumping.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                It’s really funny how he was tiny for some reason like a little over five feet and around ninety pounds when he died and he got revived like six feet and a large build. Does the pit fix being a manlet?

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                His Who's Who Post-Crisis stats are like this, before later writers' modifications and then the Red Hood profile.
                >1987: 4'6, 87 lbs
                >1988 updates: 5'0, 110 lbs

                The death certificate from Batman Files goes with his Post-Crisis debut stats, but I do remember something else claiming he was 5'4?
                Pre-Crisis Jason was 5'2, so they might have gotten that mixed up in there.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                His Who's Who Post-Crisis stats are like this, before later writers' modifications and then the Red Hood profile.
                >1987: 4'6, 87 lbs
                >1988 updates: 5'0, 110 lbs

                The death certificate from Batman Files goes with his Post-Crisis debut stats, but I do remember something else claiming he was 5'4?
                Pre-Crisis Jason was 5'2, so they might have gotten that mixed up in there.

                Jason's death certificate report lists him as 5'4'' or so. People forget he was only 2 years older than Tim

                behold the manlet

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Now Dick and Tim are the manlets.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Dick got shafted so hard. He went from 6'3 to 5'10 overnight.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Jason stole a few of the extra inches like how he stole Dick's friends for a while.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                That’s just how younger brothers are

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        you don't understand anon, Jason NEEDED to be a untrained angry moron (even tho he was happy go lucky, trained as well as Dick and just as competent) so hecking Tim could show just how better he was than Jason.
        unironically Tim was a mistake

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          what comic are you referencing?

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            more than a comic is probably something like 20 years of comics overall
            Jason got victim blamed to prop up Tim and take accountability from Bruce
            Tim's motto for a while was "Im not Jason Todd" referencing himself as better
            https://www.tumblr.com/bat-lings/183827376640/ugh-you-just-reminded-me-how-stupid-it-was-that
            good thing modern writters course correct this by making Jason dab on Tim every time they fight now

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              i asked because i couldn't think of a story where tim was directly compared to jason in a way that suggested jason was inadequately prepared or incompetent but i could remember the older characters just being unwilling to let this random rich weirdo go up against mooks without training. and of course there is the tendency for us all to unconsciously incorporate fanon, like the idea that jason goes around calling tim replacement.

              The examples in that link are interesting but also read a little like someone is looking for text boxes they can interpret in a way that suits their agenda, which can also work simply as characters being logically aware of a past death that might have been avoidable and the fact that a rich boy with a skateboard is not experientially comparable to a street kid. There's a question of projection here.

              Not that I think you're wrong. The idea we all have here has to come from something. Maybe just a preponderance of small instances.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >The examples in that link are interesting but also read a little like someone is looking for text boxes they can interpret in a way that suits their agenda,
                Anon, when Dennis O'Neil wrote the Batbible that would be passed to Batman writers he explicitly went out of his way to blame Jason's death on Jason.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                because that's exactly what happened. You can argue that he should have never been in that position in the first place, but they wrote what they wrote

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >because that's exactly what happened.
                Except Denny doesn't give any context into it, Jason could have made it out had he not been sold out by his mom.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >take no action until I get back
                >I repeat take no action
                it is what it is. Batgod is always right

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                that's an entry about tim, not an attempt to justify past canonical actions of a different character. all the statements in there just present other characters' behavior without context. dick obviously had reasons for quitting, but those aren't provided either.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >because that's exactly what happened
                Sure, if we ignore contexts for the purpose to be disingenuous. DC and Batman rely a lot on their audience turning their brain off after all...

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                is that not what happened? what's the issue here?
                i'm pretty amused by how the rest of that tim description sounds like executive design though. rasta percentage?

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Denny O'Neil had to answer for his bullshit when the suits caught wind that Robin died in a stunt. So he had to make a new Robin as soon as possible. It's funny, Denny was of the same troglodyte mindset that cannot accept the concept of Batman having a sidekick but killing Jason stopped his plans.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Lonnie Machin was originally considered to be the new eventual Robin III too, had Wolfman not come up with Tim Drake.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          They retconned Jason as an untrained stupid weakling to make Dick look good, not Tim. Unironically every time "Jason was always shit at his job" has ever been mentioned it's either Alfred or Bruce saying "he was never as strong or as good as Dick" or even Dick himself saying "what the frick Bruce this is all your fault for taking out an untrained loser who wasn't half as good as I am!"
          Noone's ever cared about Tim enough to wank him

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            it's funny how people think replacement stuff is about jason and tim, not dick and jason, because one time in hush 'he' dropped the word and it might or might not have been retconned.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            it's funny how people think replacement stuff is about jason and tim, not dick and jason, because one time in hush 'he' dropped the word and it might or might not have been retconned.

            Are you serious? This was one of the few scenes that put the blame on Bruce instead of Dick. Jason was untrained in comparison to Dick. Dick was a freak athlete who'd been training in acrobatics since he was a toddler. Jason was the unwanted crack baby raised on the streets of Gotham. Bruce rushed it, made a mistake, and Jason paid the price.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Wolfman wrote this so the reader would accept Tim Drake as a replacement a few issues later.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >This was one of the few scenes that put the blame on Bruce instead of Dick
              Anon what the frick are you talking about? Noone has ever put blame on dick for jason dying.
              Jason is just retconned as weak and incompetent and untrained everytime to wank Dick as the bestest ever

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                My bad, I meant put the blame on Bruce instead of Jason. I also posted the two pictures out of order.
                Wolfman put the blame on Bruce for Jason's death, where later writers would try to blame Jason himself.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      He had schizo hallucinations of him once or twice and he seemed disgusted at what he ended up as. Even he thinks he was better off dead.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Even he thinks he was better off dead.
        Then why doesn't he kill himself? Is he stupid?

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Probably scared that he’d just somehow come back again. Dude is cursed.

  13. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The problem with Jason is that the hacks that DC currently has as writers have no interest in doing anything but endless URTH rehashes with him and in consequence he is stuck in an endless loop in which a writer mends his relationship with the family and brings him fully into the fold just for the next to come with a moronic reason to break them off and go back to square one.

    I'd keep Jason as part of the family but I would get him the hell out of Gotham, and let him become the globe-trotting member of the family that travels all around the world helping people and righting wrongs. He will be willing to go back to Gotham and help Bruce with the obligatory yearly crossovers.

    I don't give a shit about Tim

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That's a fricking garbo idea. The Outlaws blew. Jason is just an edgier Dick when outside the batfamily.

  14. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous
  15. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I hate the constant hate boner this place has for Jason. It's like they're stuck on this idea he never should have been brought back and refuse to ever give him a chance beyond that.

    You want him doing stuff? Just give him a team like in his various Red Hood and the Outlaws comics where he can be an edgier Robin for a more adult Teen Titans style team

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >It's like they're stuck on this idea he never should have been brought back and refuse to ever give him a chance beyond that.
      It's literally because he's a Batman character that kills. Manchildren love no-kill rules for some reason and hate those that deviate from it.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >manchildren love no-kill rules
        you couldn't be more wrong

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Manchildren love no-kill rules for some reason and hate those that deviate from it.
        More people will have died because Batman went out of his way to save Joker.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >It's like they're stuck on this idea he never should have been brought back
      Because it's true.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Who gives a frick. He has been and it's done. Get over it.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I wonder if they could get away with killing him a second time. I don’t think anyone really likes him.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Dumbass post.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >I don’t think anyone really likes him.
              See? You guys are just moronic AND delusional.

              Anon be real if they were to kill him off again nobody would be truly upset. He hasn’t had anything good in at least a decade. His character offers nothing and I really doubt he’s popular with children like

              Jason's fans are children anon, not dudes in their late 20s.

              suggests. He has some fanboys from that movie and that’s really it. Nobody wanted him back before.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I'd argue that more people would be upset with Jason getting killed off than Tim Drake, a character who has been in limbo since the 2000s. By killing Jason off, it pretty much confirms the editorial doesn't know what the hell they're doing and are repeating the same mistakes they've been doing since the 90s.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Most people like Tim. He’s pretty much become the modern face of the mantle. He’s not nearly as controversial or disliked as Jason. He’s one of the best while Jason is indisputably the worst. If one of them has to go better kill him than Tim.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >He’s pretty much become the modern face of the mantle.
                Except that's Dick, even the most memorable adaptation of Tim is just Jason with Tim's nametag slapped on him.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >even the most memorable adaptation of Tim is just Jason with Tim's nametag slapped on him
                Jason fans always say this with no evidence or source. Adaptations will change things, doesn’t mean that the character who is named is actually secretly meant to be some other character kek

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Jason fans always say this with no evidence or source.
                instead of a well-off upper middle class whiz kid, this Tim is a snarky kid off the streets with a crooked father.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >no sources
                The writers are open about it and those interviews are not a secret. It's in the artbooks too. You just like to shove your head up your ass and came out as an idiot, that's all.

                Orphaned street kid adopted by Batman to fill a hole Robin left in his life when he went off and became Nightwing. The kid then gets wrecked by the Joker and Batman is never the same. Total Tim.

                Really this just reads as they wanted to have Tim without having to establish Jason before him. Changing his origin so they don’t have to acknowledge how he originally became the third robin.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Really this just reads as they wanted to have Tim without having to establish Jason before him. Changing his origin so they don’t have to acknowledge how he originally became the third robin.
                It's not the first time this happened in the DCAU. In STAS, they had Kyle Rayner appear but made him Hal Jordan but everything in name.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                It was just the DCAU merging characters as usual, they did the same with Clayface.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Jason Todd is suddenly Tim Drake. Hal Jordan is suddenly Kyle Rayner. Wally West is suddenly Barry Allen and vice versa. The DCAU is infamous for this.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                This just read as you reaching further. They didn't care who was who. They didn't care about Robin even in BTAS, but they were mandated to put another Robin in TNBA, they though Jason's backstory was better and went for it, then exec told them to call him Tim Drake for comics synergy purpose. And they did. They couldn't care less about comics continuity.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                We really do live in the worst timeline for DC adaptations.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                As good as the DC is we do live in it's shadow for the creators having their own quirks and tastes.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >no sources
                The writers are open about it and those interviews are not a secret. It's in the artbooks too. You just like to shove your head up your ass and came out as an idiot, that's all.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Orphaned street kid adopted by Batman to fill a hole Robin left in his life when he went off and became Nightwing. The kid then gets wrecked by the Joker and Batman is never the same. Total Tim.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                [...]
                [...]
                Really this just reads as they wanted to have Tim without having to establish Jason before him. Changing his origin so they don’t have to acknowledge how he originally became the third robin.

                There's an episode adapting an issue of Jason's Robin run from the 80's. Even with some shots recreated. He has NOTHING of Tim's personality really , fairly established by 1996 when show was in production

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Really? Do you have pictures of the shots?

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                There's two major examples of TNBA homagine Jason Todd as Robin
                First is straight out his origin episode being based off Jason todd's Robin origin
                Second is Never Fear, based off Detective Comics #571.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Red Hood comics are the worse selling batfam comics by a country mile. Jason is only popular with people who don't actually read comics.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Maybe they wouldn’t be such awful sellers if they actually gave him a good book unlike The Hill.
                >Jason is only popular with people who don't actually read comics.
                Aka the people who actually draw in the money.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Jason has had a book since the new 52 and they've all been shit. Maybe its just him.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I liked Task Force Z...

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                It finally made Jason and Steph actually interact, so it wasn't a complete waste of time I think.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I actually liked the uniform he had during that run.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous
              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Jason and Steph will be the ones who save Gotham City.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                This is the same kind of editorial thinking that got Hal Jordan killed off in the first place anon.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The solution is to go in the light/campy direction with Jason. Let him be as serious and grim as he wants and blow away all the bad guys, but he's teamed up with a mite who undoes everything that would piss off Batman.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I don't see how tearing apart the entire Gl franchise vs re-killing a side character who only exists becasue of Batman are comparable.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Because the editors were dumb enough to blame the character for the failing when it was theirs all along.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                > Batman and his other sideckicks have good books
                Maybe it's just you being too dumb to see the three in the forest.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                *tree

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                > Batman and his other sideckicks have good books
                they're better characters

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >I don’t think anyone really likes him.
            See? You guys are just moronic AND delusional.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Jason's fans are children anon, not dudes in their late 20s.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              I'd say most of Jason's fans are now guys in their late 20's/30's who watched the UtH movie as a teenager (15 years ago now) and thought it was the coolest shit ever

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Plus the guys that got into him from Arkham Knight. Either way, they're edgy tools or the "i can fix him" type girls the edgy tools inevitably marry.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The vintage Jason fujoshi types from Livejournal like Monkeycrackmary paved the way for some wild shit back in the day too. Social media kids might yell at each other over Bat-Family kid ships being incest, but some of these Jason fans of old went far and hard with their fetishes.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >Anon be real if they were to kill him off again nobody would be truly upset. He hasn’t had anything good in at least a decade. His character offers nothing and I really doubt he’s popular with children like suggests. He has some fanboys from that movie and that’s really it. Nobody wanted him back before.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Because it's true.
        It's not. Jason is one of those characters that needed to come back because the editorial did dirty much like they did to Hal Jordan.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >editorial did dirty
          And the Jason that came back is nothing like the Jason that was done dirty and entirely like Starlin's shit Jason.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >the editorial did dirty
          They did him dirty twice. The Jason they brought back exist to cement two decades of retcons that present Jason as a rotten apple. It's a strawman.

          >editorial did dirty
          And the Jason that came back is nothing like the Jason that was done dirty and entirely like Starlin's shit Jason.

          No, it's not. Starlin is a shit writer but his narrative was to say the thing Jason did as Robin fricked-up the kid and Bruce is terrible with kids. What came back says the opposite.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >but his narrative was to say the thing Jason did as Robin fricked-up the kid and Bruce is terrible with kids. What came back says the opposite
            Didn't Batman take Jason to see a woman's suicide?

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              The diplomate's son storyline:
              > be Robin
              >stop a violent rape scene
              >comfort the victim
              >rapist has diplomatic immunity
              >Gordon and Batman can't do shit
              >is told to wait and see
              >wait and see
              > victim hang herself when her rapist start harrassing her again
              >discover her corpse
              > doesn't listen when told to wait and see this time
              > rapist slip off his balcony and dies
              My favorite part is that Bruce offers zero support whatsoever toward the kid or the victim at ANY given point.

              Him tossing off the diplomat's son was framed as being entirely on him. That made the readers turn against him. starlin can insist that he meant it was because Batman was raising him poorly, but readers won't see it that way.

              >the diplomat's son was framed as being entirely on him. That made the readers turn against him
              That just tell me Starlin can't frame his narrative for shit and DC readers are moronic drones.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Him tossing off the diplomat's son was framed as being entirely on him. That made the readers turn against him. starlin can insist that he meant it was because Batman was raising him poorly, but readers won't see it that way.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              That man beat and raped that woman and he was there when they found the body. He was like 14 too I don’t think he was meant to take the full blame, hence why they kept it ambiguous if he had actually pushed the thug or not.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >Him tossing off the diplomat's son was framed as being entirely on him. That made the readers turn against him. starlin can insist that he meant it was because Batman was raising him poorly, but readers won't see it that way.
              Denny's job was keeping the quality in check, why did he let this shit happen?

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Starlin wanted him to die of AIDs I think he just really wanted the kid gone.

  16. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Jason should rape Tim.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You can't rape the willing.

  17. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    How the frick does Gotham ever have any problems when it has one Batman, four robins, four batgirls and at least one Azrael?

  18. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I actually liked RHatO. Just give him his own small team of misfits, a half-decent writer, quit trying to ship him with Barbara, and quit pulling him into every single Bat event that happens.

  19. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I think we should get a book where Jason and Steph team up.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That's what The Hill should have been instead of Jason and some crew of no name jobbers.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Unironically they should've had sex a long time ago.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous
    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Jason deserves better than Tim's sloppy seconds.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Did never got to make it sloppy.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        You remember that episode of The Simpsons where Lisa is getting married and she tells Marge that Milhouse was her first? Exact same thing here.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Tim really is the Milhouse of the Robins.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Jason deserves better than Tim's sloppy seconds.

      He will never get a girl btw

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I hope so. DC female characters are so shit.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        He already has Rose Wilson thirsting over him.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          If he’s too gay to acknowledge that then he’s a lost cause.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          She should've let him die.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Pitch a story then.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Hard Traveling Heroes only Steph tags along because Bruce wants someone to keep an eye on Jason and Steph’s wants an excuse to leave town for a bit because of Tim.

  20. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I like the premise of Jason being the savior of Gotham more than I do Bruce, Tim, or Damian. Dude came from the streets while Bruce, Tim, and Damian are bougie homies.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That's the one reason I'm opposed to the idea of Jason leaving Gotham for good, he's arguably more Gotham than Bruce, if any Robin should save the city, I think it should be him.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That's the one reason I'm opposed to the idea of Jason leaving Gotham for good, he's arguably more Gotham than Bruce, if any Robin should save the city, I think it should be him.

      And yet Dick still mogs him there

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >And yet Dick still mogs him there
        Except he doesn't. Dick had the blessing of parents to raise him before their death. Jason didn't even get that.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Dick, out of all Robins, is the one that shouldn't stick to Gotham, he's from a traveling circus, don't you think he should, you know, travel?
        Gotham is Bruce's city, Dick just lost his parents there.

  21. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Tim's gay now. That's his entire character.

  22. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    There's something very condensing about an uber-rich dude dictating justice for society for the sake of unsullying his idea of justice even though it's almost always the lower class who face the brunt of violence at the hands of Joker and pals.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Gee what Twitter did you dig this up from?

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Twitter? Frick that shithole, you know I'm right. If Red Hood emptied a .44 into Joker's head clean, the locals would cheer and turn Joker's body into a pinata like Mussolini's... and Batman would do everything in his power to prevent it.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Wouldn’t he just come back to life somehow. All it’s gonna get hood is another beating from daddy.

  23. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >I ate RATS Tim
    >Just like Bruce did when he was your age

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Wonder Woman is now the best Robin

  24. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Is TT03 Robin the first real Tim Drake adaptation?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That was still Dick

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That was still Dick

      By the writer's own commentary, TT03 was meant to be a general representation of the Robin identity rather than anyone in particular. So there was a little bit of all three.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Honestly it feels more like TT03 copied the hits but used Young Justice as a character template because Wolfman really can't write teenagers.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          That's more or less what happened.
          Young Justice 2010 was weirdly enough closer to Johns Titans.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Yeah sure, but it was actually still Dick.
        The thing is, with a character who's been around for 80 years, virtually every interpretation of the character has been done before.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      No, he's closer to how Dick was in NTT, down to how determined and driven he was. People forget NTT wasn't the modern interpretation of him
      TTGO! Robin is, unironically, a closer adaptation to Tim

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >"Nobody cares about Tim Drake!"
        >-Dick Grayson, TTGO! Robin

  25. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Why does someone have to think of something new for them to do? Jason is in the niche he's been in since he came back, and Tim's old thing he "did" was fighting crime by himself, with his friends or with Batman in between managing his civilian personal life, which he can still do now.

  26. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Frick sidekicks up the ass

  27. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    DC doesn't know what to do with any of these characters. It's a multifaceted problem of there being too many of them yet not expanding the setting/world to accommodate them and writers being wholly uninterested in writing around what makes each character unique beyond some super lazy general personality traits so you get just a blob of seemingly redundant characters. This isn't even just a Batman/Robin issue and is a problem for most DC heroes and their extended casts. Just the natural result of telling never ending stories without a tight editorial/leadership to guide them

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >DC doesn't know what to do with any of these characters. I
      This. People want Jason to get a good run and the best DC can do is the RH: The Hill? What the hell is wrong with editorial?

  28. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Tim should just retire.

  29. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    So we've got:
    >good Robin
    >bad Robin
    >good Robin 2
    >bad Robin 2
    I think I can see the problem here. The Batfamily should have stopped growing in 2000.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Before Damien it felt more like each Robin represented a piece of Bruce taken to the extreme or lacking something.

      >Dick
      Bruce but more natural athletic ability, and more mentally balanced.
      >Jason
      Bruce but less morality and more anger.
      >Tim
      Bruce but more intelligence and skill with tools (resist lewd joke).

      Even the Batgirls kinda fit with this, but even more skewed:
      >Barbara
      Bruce but entirely tech reliant, no physical prowess.
      >Cass
      Bruce but entirely physical, no detective skills.

      Damien is just... Bruce but little, or Bruce but born an butthole? I don't know, obviously it's all headcanon shit but whatever.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Bruce but entirely tech reliant, no physical prowess.
        It's telling that the most beloved rendition of Babs is the one where she's a glorified GPS.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Oh yeah, the retroactive promotion of a glorified cheerleader Batgirl Barbara into some combat-ready femme fatale is among the more blatant manipulations from both DC and certain "fans." She was better as a rolling Siri than she ever was as Batgirl.

          Damien is Bruce but with parents

          So... worthless? A spoiled brat that has everything handed to him?

          We could lose Damien, Jason, Tim and Barbara's legs and Batman comics would only improve.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Oh yeah, the retroactive promotion of a glorified cheerleader Batgirl Barbara into some combat-ready femme fatale is among the more blatant manipulations from both DC and certain "fans." She was better as a rolling Siri than she ever was as Batgirl.
            Nah that's bullshit, Babsgirl being incompetent and not capable is like 80% Kelly Puckett's vendetta against the character, nothing in Pre-Crisis except the first few stories painted Babs as anything less than capable. She wasn't even really a bat-sidekick, all the Batgirl backups in 80's detective have her on her own.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Recommend me some great pre-crisis Batgirl stories, please.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                NTA and I wouldn't say great, but my favorite Batgirl stories are the Robin team-ups. Their early Detective Comics backup team-ups and then the costar thing in Batman Family. The solo Batgirl stuff always seemed dull in comparison.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I never said they were /great/, but any of the Detective Comics Batgirl backups have her as a perfectly competent hero.
                You don't have to like Babs as Batgirl, but acting like she was a mess that should've given up in Pre-Crisis is being purposefully deceiving.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              I never said she was incompetent, just that she really wasn't anything special. She was just kind of there, she was in a few backups, and Bat Family titles, she even had her own series but it was never popular. She didn't really leave an impression and was largely retired as a character by the time Killing Joke came around.

              When they started pimping her hardcore to new audiences they suggested that she was a much bigger deal than she was. You could argue that the boy's club at DC treated her like a nothing c-lister until they were criticized for not promoting more female characters, so they dusted her off and said "look we have this bad ass Batgirl from the 60's right here!"

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You said she was a glorified cheerleader, which isn't the case,and deliberately downplaying her portrayal. She was no less heroic than any other character, bland as that might be.
                If it was just a matter of needing to promote female characters, they would've just kept using Steph(who was effectively the way they wanted Babs to be) or kept Cass around. But they wanted Babs specifically as Batgirl.
                "Nothing special" describes most of DC before the 80's, really.
                Truth is, people's attachment to a lot of these characters is largely superficial. And that's ok. At the end of the day the initial draw to a lot of these characters is how they look and which one people saw first. It doesn't matter Barry had almost nothing going on to set him apart, he was the Flash when ___ started reading so he'll be special to them and he's special to them because he discovered him when he was a kid. It's fine to take a character that only has superficial interest and try to give them a push. I would agree Babsgirl failed to live up to the push DC gave her in New 52, but giving her the mantle back was reasonable given everyone else having a second shake at their mantle when they lost them.
                There are really no legitimately great Hal Jordan GL comics before Rebirth, that doesn't mean rebirth should've never happened.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >There are really no legitimately great Hal Jordan GL comics before Rebirth
                Hal had a great Post Crisis run wdym?

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Hal had a great Post Crisis run wdym?
                He really didn't. Out of all the major heroes, Hal probably had it harder than most because fans of Denny and Neal Adams' awful Hard Travelling Heroes couldn't let go of it, so they had to fit it in which actually aged Hal while everyone else stayed young. There's also Steve Englehart who made Hal look like a nonce because he thought it would be cool and mature to add sex to the GL comics.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >they had to fit it in which actually aged Hal while everyone else stayed young.
                Not seeing how that's having it harder since the more mature Hal was an interesting take.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Not seeing how that's having it harder since the more mature Hal was an interesting take.
                It was a terrible take and nobody liked it. Dude was nearing his late 40s and complained about the job like we hadn't seen this premise before a decade ago when he didn't want the job anymore and passed it to John Stewart, no wonder kids opted for Mosaic instead. It was more fun seeing John put through crazy bullshit than watching an old mope bring up the old days and doubting himself.

                Wasn't DC already going in a more Marvel inspired direction by then?

                By the early 80s, their biggest success was a diet X-Men comic, it wasn't until the arrival of new writers, many from the UK, who spiced it up and gave DC a fighting chance.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Seems like you got filtered hard by older Hal stories.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I love 60s Green Lantern and some of the late 70s/early, early 80s stuff, but not the 90s stuff because it stinks of the Denny/Adams era. As much as I dislike Emerald Twilight, it was probably the first time in a long time that the rest of the DC actually took a Green Lantern seriously.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >By the early 80s, their biggest success was a diet X-Men comic
                I think that's a crude way to describe New Teen Titans when everyone was using the more soap opera style of story telling. And while it was the biggest, it wasn't their only success.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                This! Cass and Steph sucked as Batgirls; it was unfair to have Babs title silent and then run into the ground.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I'm sorry... you seem reasonable and genuine, but the basis for everything you say is based on the presumption that DC comics were "nothing special" prior to the 80's ...which is just so ridiculous that I am just inclined to say that we should agree to disagree.

                I was prepared to discuss Barbara's place of importance (or lack thereof) in the greater DC landscape but I'm too tired to debate the importance of the first 4 decades of DC comics. It's late.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >I'm sorry... you seem reasonable and genuine, but the basis for everything you say is based on the presumption that DC comics were "nothing special" prior to the 80's ...which is just so ridiculous that I am just inclined to say that we should agree to disagree.
                NTA but there's a reason why Marvel started kicking DC's ass for much of the 70s and early 80s.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Wasn't DC already going in a more Marvel inspired direction by then?

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >, but the basis for everything you say is based on the presumption that DC comics were "nothing special" prior to the 80's ...which is just so ridiculous that I am just inclined to say that we should agree to disagree.
                I'm not saying there's not enjoyable comics, or that there weren't great comics, but there's nothing that makes Babsgirl any less special or worthy of bringing back than countless other DC characters that get brought back or reworked time and time again
                Most of the anger over her being Batgirl again comes from(reasonably) people upset over her overshadowing her successors, or people upset that the sense of progression her being Oracle brought.
                I'm just saying it's entirely reasonable that even though Babsgirl's stories weren't particularly important or notable, there's still people who enjoyed her enough who wanted to see her in the role again.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Based Didio mindbroke this board by screwing over their favorite toys. There's a reason first installment always wins.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I'd argue that most of the people demanding Barbara come back as Batgirl were working at DC, rather than organic demand from fans. Same with Barry Allen. The fans had long since accepted the replacement (Barry fans embracing Wally) or simply never cared about the original (Barbara fans). Hal had memorable stories, hence the decade+ whining from H.E.A.T.

                You need only look at the results of the reboots to discern which characters were popular.

                >Hal
                Wildly successful reboot fueled by fans
                >Barry
                Moderately successful reboot by mixed fans, then Wally's return popped sales charts for months.
                >Barbara
                Series of failed titles that were each canceled quicker than Cassandra Cain's solo title.

                At the end of the day; GL had some fun Silver Age issues, Flash had his moments and Barbara was... around.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Cass had 81 issues over seven years, Babs had 109 issues over nine years.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >"Nothing special" describes most of DC before the 80's, really.
                I feel that's really unfair and underselling Bronze Age writers like Elliot S! Maggin and Cary Bates.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >Babsgirl being incompetent and not capable
              We have had 10 years of babsgirl stories and they all suck. You got what you wanted and it sucked.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                That's still better than letting Cass or Steph take up the role.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                how? Their runs both stomp Babs. Steph in particular is the kind of batgirl people wish comic babs was

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                See

                Because she checks a lot of boxes that can maximize DC's ESG score...POC, woman, moronic, etc.

                Explain how she isnf

                Cass is an ESG character and Steph isn't much better

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Steph at least has an original costume and outline. Cass is just a full body suit and has dark hair. Wow. Imaginative.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Steph at least has an original costume and outline.
                Not really. It's still inferior to the trad Batgirl who isn't a degenerate.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Except we aren't comparing Steph and Barbara, we are comparing Steph and Cassandra

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >pic
                I cant tell the difference between those two characters just by looking at their faces wtf

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                No it isn't.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You mean you want a asiatic or a lesbo taking up the mantle? Batgirl as a concept is bad enough.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >or a lesbo taking up the mantle?
                >lesbo
                Are you moronic? But yes, if something on the level of Batgirl 2009 came out today I'd pick it up in a heartbeat.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Bi is the same as gay. Anyways, I'd rather stick with Babs since she pisses more people off by existing than Alita did.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >I'd rather stick with Babs since she pisses more people off by existing than Alita did.
                you are a miserable, miserable person

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Oh but Batboy would be OK, right?

                Sexism is brainrot.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Unironically yes.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          organizing and telling people what to do is usually reserved for the elites and it fit her established skillset. It's sort of weird with capes because the action usually is the point but a chick turning a crippling injury into an objectively better position is an oddly interesting and inspiring story/setup and quite frankly nothing she's done as batgirl has ever even come remotely close to it

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Damien is Bruce but with parents

  30. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Tim is the type of homie to complain about moving into a smaller mansion while Jason would be the type to be grateful that he doesn't have to check his bedroom for rats and heroin needles anymore.

  31. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Theyre the middle children. So they're middling.

  32. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    DC doesn’t know what to do with any characters they own

  33. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Just get Jason out of Gotham and let him be DCs Frank. Problem solved.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Frick off we're shitting on newbies

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >DCs Frank
      god no

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        There's literally no reason not to. Jason will NEVER escape Under the Red Hood. He will never fit in the infinitely expanding bat family. He will never do anything shackled to batman and the "redeemed antihero" crap. Cut him lose and let him be a killer far away from Bruce and his bullshit. He doesn't have to be a blood thirsty psycho or mad bomber, but there is nothing to lose by letting him be a tacticool killer batman who actually gets to do his own thing.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          The reason is that Frank sucks.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I'm using him as an example of a killer vigilante, im not saying Jason should literally be replaced by frank castle you dense mother fricker.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              b***h the Shadow is right over there!

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The shadow has had plenty of bad books too.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Nah, Jason needs to stay in Gotham, or at the very least New Jersey to clean the trash that Batman is too chickenshit to get rid of.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        That can't happen he has to get away from Bruce

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Nah, because Jason is as Gotham as it gets, it would make him look like a b***h if he left home permanently.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >it would make him look like a b***h
            Well, if it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            But Jason IS a b***h.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >stay in Gotham

        Dc won't let him kill villains any more. He needs to start slaying D-listers. Maybe give him Clownhunter as a sidekick.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >DUDE JUST KILL D-LISTERS AS CANNON FODDER
          See this is why murderous heroes never work in comics that are meant to go forever.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I'm not seeing a coherent objection.

            If losing fodder villains is what bothers you, just make OCs. It's really not that hard to introduce a one arc villain or two from scratch.

            Nobody is gonna cry for some single-issue OC literally who when they get smoked.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Not him, but if it were up to me I'd introduce an immortal villain that Jason has to kill over and over.
              Make him his new archenemy, it gives him an excuse to actually kill, even if it's only temporary.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Jason could use an actual archenemy of his own.
                Instead of having to fight Daddy's baddies.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Who would you suggest from the existing roster of possibilities? An OC would probably be ideal, but...

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >from the existing roster of possibilities?
                I'd rather not give him old villains, make new OCs for him to fight, edgier, stronger, more durable villains that actually require him to go all out.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                It has filler written all over it. Just a way to make due with a. promise to the writer done 3 years ago. It will never be brought up again unless the writer gets another shot at Jason.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              because it quickly becomes "why isn't Jason killing the Joker or even fricking Zsysz"

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Have them be in Arkham when it happens. Limit his options.

                I understand it's a risk, but there is room to work with if you think outside the box anon

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              The problem is that single issue OCs won't make any difference, it's the same problem as the Punisher, no one fricking cares about new OCs that exist solely to die, and if they care enough, they'll be brought back, going against the whole point of their existence.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Nah, because Jason is as Gotham as it gets, it would make him look like a b***h if he left home permanently.

        Did you eat lead paint chips as a child

  34. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Jason would be much better as a solo character or with his own team. He's held back by Bruce. Needs to go rogue.

  35. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It seems our superiority has offended the DChuds

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      at their normal level Marvel is better than DC, i mean just look at the current state, half their catalog is batman shit, and has been this way for years now.

      at their best probably DC just because they have a lot of memorable and special one off stories, even tho Marvel characters are overall better.

      at their worst is honestly a toss up
      DC is moronic and doesn't or cannot manage anything. their frick ups are a byproduct of incompetence and they being stupid
      Marvel frick ups are mostly intentional and born out of spite from writters and editorial against readers
      i could dumb things down to say dc at its worst is gay shit and batman/joker/harley want and marvel at his worst is race bait shit and spider-man getting cucked

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        What a moronic post.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Im sorry DC characters suck anon

  36. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >we live in a world where Jason was right and Batman was wrong
    The absolute state of Denny O'Neil.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Batman has always been wrong. Throwing Joker in jail has never stopped him.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Batman isn't wrong, the writers are wrong for making these meta issues in-story issues

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Exactly, and it's usually bad writers who want to touch on this subject. Winick wrote UTHR, obviously it would be shit and give rise to a bunch of gays who talk shit on the internet.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      if you keep trying maybe your "Denny O'Neil. sucks, ackshually" meme will catch on.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >she thinks it's a meme
        Dude thought this was groundbreaking stuff in the 70s.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Blame Neal Adams more for that one.
          Doesn't discredit the fact that most people would consider O'neil a fine writer.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Doesn't discredit the fact that most people would consider O'neil a fine writer.
            Most people consider Hush a top-ten Batman story. The world is full of morons. Dude is responsible for making the world of Batman more violent and dark and Batman more ineffective as a result.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >Dude is responsible for making the world of Batman more violent and dark and Batman more ineffective as a result.
              It's not that simple. Other writers. Frank Robbins and David V Reed were writing darker Batman stories along with Denny in the 70's and they were writers from the 50's and 60's. The push to make Batman darker was likely always going to happen O'Neil gets the credit because his stories were better written and more modern than the others.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >muh nig nogs
          Black folk should have been genocided generations ago

  37. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Let Joker kill Tim to piss off the worst comic book fans

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Tim is bisexual now, he can't die.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Tim is homosexual now, he can't die.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >homosexual
        bisexual

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Same difference, the point is that he likes dudes now.

  38. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Dan Slott here. Just intercepted the next issue starring Jason.

    I'll tldr this rq so I can get back to X...

    >Dick is tied to a chair and forced to watch as Jason rawdogs Starfire in the ass. He sobs, starts crying, then Barbara rolls in on her wheelchair and gets eaten out by Jason(who is still fricking Kori). Then Jason grabs Dick by the face, asks "Why so Serious?", and kicks him into a vat of joker gas.

  39. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Did anyone read Red Hood: The Hill? They're making Jason a metrosexual hipster who eats at trendy restaurants and housewarming parties at his apparent.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I read a few issues but got bored of it, how did it go?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I am and I like it and that's not it at all. They're making Jason into one of those brave whites who goes into the hood during the first wave of gentrification, gets himself an ethnic girlfriend, and ingratiates himself to the community while living in a shithole apartment, all without revealing that he's the son of a billionaire.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >They're making Jason into one of those brave whites who goes into the hood during the first wave of gentrification, gets himself an ethnic girlfriend, and ingratiates himself to the community while living in a shithole apartment, all without revealing that he's the son of a billionaire.
        They definitely went into this comic with Tim Drake in mind but then had to change it to Jason. The sad thing is that the black femMC is actually pretty cute, but man is the rest of the comic ass.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          No, Martinbrough clearly meant this for Jason. Tim wouldn't be caught dead in this neighborhood. He's way too bougie. He considers going to Steph's working class suburban neighborhood slumming it.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Martinbrough clearly meant this for Jason.
            KEK good joke, anon.

  40. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Should Jason be ugly?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      No.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That's a face hit by a crowbar alright

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >A face only a mother could– oh wait
      It’s funny when they randomly make him ugly and look ten years older than he actually is.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      He should look like an off-brand Dick.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        His two bangs are what separate him.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Ugly and red-headed.

  41. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Jason would be better if he was a girl.

    Cass would be better as a guy.

    That's the comment.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous
    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      but Steph is good Jason and Cass is good Damian

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Nobody cares about Steph though. She's the least relevant of the entire bat family apart from the black token character

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          people cared so much about Steph that they forced the company to give her an apology book and in-universe validation

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          The fact that she was intended as a one-off character yet is still around is a force-multiplier of fandom appeal though. DC's attempted stronger pushes for characters that stuck around less time. There's been more money spent on characters that have less fanart internationally than she does with almost no adaptations. She's by no means a big character, but she's a character with enough fan interest to make her more viable than many others.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Nobody cares about Steph though.
          More people would care if they actually put her into something instead of making her Cass' Jannetty.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I mean I agree, but that's also not gonna happen. DC is all up Cass's coochie for some reason. Lord knows why. Her outfit fricking sucks and her personality may as well be dry wood.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >n. DC is all up Cass's coochie for some reason. Lord knows why.
              Because Gunn said he liked her so now they have to scramble to
              Same thing with Waller, Gunn(for whatever fricking reason) has one of the first things on his slate be a Waller series so now DC's pushing Waller hard(without realizing that her appeal was being used sparingly as a supporting player). Her own creator ran out of ideas and burned out of comics right after his initial run with her for years.
              People like Cass more for her potential than how she was actually written for most of her history.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Because she checks a lot of boxes that can maximize DC's ESG score...POC, woman, moronic, etc.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Cass is now an ESG character
                I fricking hate /misc/

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Explain how she isnf

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                She was created in 2000.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                And she was Completely irrelevant for many years after her creation

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                So were many other DC characters white and nonwhite.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Cass was relevant until Bruce Wayne Murderer/Fgitive ends. Hush not using her signaled that the Shreck bat offices did not consider her important and just a leftover lion cub that could be culled in time.
                Cass' entire early momentum is "you should follow this breakout character from NML!".

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Casa is bait for losers who like the anime cliche of a no bullshit serious tomboy who is always prepared for combat BUT IS ACTUALLY A KISSLESS AUTIST VIRGIN?!?

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                She can DEFEAT BATMAN(click here) But you know she'd totally blush if a boy..held her hand!
                M-maybe YOU(yes, you reader). She has no concept of social cues so she wouldn't care that you're an unfrickable loser, she loves you for your true self!

  42. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Tell me one good reason why Jason hasn't murdered the Joker yet. Sure, Bruce stopped him ONCE, years ago. Why hasn't he just tried again?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The Joker is very hard to kill.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        he's not, he's actually kind of putting his ass on the gun sight all the time, it's just that having him die would suck for sales (most of the time)

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >it's just that having him die would suck for sales
          That's the out of universe reason, in-universe, he really is just hard to kill.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      They’ve been slipping pills into his food that specifically make him not do that.

  43. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Press the big red button
    GIVE THEM TO THE FUJOS

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      They already gave Tim to the fujos, not all of them are happy, but I've seen some unironic Bernard fans.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >not all of them are happy
        You mean none of them are happy

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >but I've seen some unironic Bernard fans.
        Dafuq

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          They already gave Tim to the fujos, not all of them are happy, but I've seen some unironic Bernard fans.

          There's a moderate amount of buy-in because he's objectively better than Jay. It's not Kon, but Jason was obviously never going to happen and Jon torpedoed a superbats ship, so some will find this 'fine' if they're trying to work with the new canon instead of the usual fujo practice of throwing out everything after Identity Crisis.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      No, it's a shit pairing for Jason.

      Jason is very lucky that Babs never got to read that letter, she would've been PISSED because of Jason basically saying
      >I'll be good if you let me your bf 🙂
      Seriously the most pathetic thing he's ever done.

      That's just why Babs is a shit character. She is entirely reliant on writers making people simp for her. Otherwise, she is useless and a ginger.

  44. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Didn’t Jason get lobotomized recently? Is this a last ditch effort to fix him?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Kinda but not really.
      Long story short, Bruce while influenced by Zur mind raped Jason so he'd feel fear in situations where he would usually try to save the day, in an attempt to stop Jason from being a vigilante.
      That of course didn't stop him, Jason kept being a hero, just a very mentally fricked hero, and Joker, of all people, ended up reversing that in his book because Rosenberg wanted to use Jason in his normal state of mind he actually wants Jason to be in top condition while he's trying to kill him.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Aw joker and Jason are bros now. Nice of him to make him normal again.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I think it's more like Joker thinks they're bros, while Jason hates his guts.
          And I just imagined Joker and Jason having a dynamic similar to Wander and Lord Hater.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Forehand or backhand?
            >Forehand or backhand?
            >Forehand or backhand?
            >Forehand or backhand?

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Batman gives Jason a mental disability and refuses to get rid of it; then Joker is the one who frees him from it
        Lmao

  45. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Did they ever bring up Jason canonically being in heaven? If he was in heaven, I can assume he didn’t drop that rapist off a building.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Imagine Jason telling Tim that he’ll never make it to heaven because he’s a gay atheist.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah I don’t think he pushed him but he did let him die. He was mostly a good kid and a hero though. Died an awful selfless death. The funniest thing is he’s not going to go to heaven next time. He gave that up for nothing.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        If someone who has killed before, like Green Arrow, then Jason can definitely make it back.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >I can assume he didn’t drop that rapist off a building.
      Somehow I don't think killing a rapist that was going to get away with it would bar you from heaven, that would be insanely fricked up.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah I don’t think he pushed him but he did let him die. He was mostly a good kid and a hero though. Died an awful selfless death. The funniest thing is he’s not going to go to heaven next time. He gave that up for nothing.

      >I can assume he didn’t drop that rapist off a building.
      Somehow I don't think killing a rapist that was going to get away with it would bar you from heaven, that would be insanely fricked up.

      that might have just been an illusion, since it was all spirits of people Ollie admired and liked then in that same issue Ollie sees himself in heaven too talking back at him and Spectre reveals he constructed the "soul Ollie" as an illusion formed out of Ollie's memories
      A different Batman issue had Batman see Jason burning in hell with his eyes poked out

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >A different Batman issue had Batman see Jason burning in hell with his eyes poked out
        Somehow I feel like you're ignoring some context here.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          that was also most likely an illusion made by hell to make Bruce feel guilty, which is what I'm getting at sincen it's the inverse with heaven

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Day of Judgment had Jason as one of the damned souls in purgatory, who would be given consideration to ascend to Heaven at the end for their good deeds in helping the heroes.

        There's also a Batman story where Alfred cleans the mansion, and claims to see a Robin ghost hanging out there that he has tea with.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          damn is everyone who hangs with bruce just a schizo they're all seeing fricking ghosts

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Bruce should get the mansion checked for black mold and asbestos.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Maybe his soul was actually there just chilling because he couldn’t move on.

  46. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    If they don’t know what to do with Jason, then they should call Winick.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      God no, Winick would probably make him gay.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Why? There’s already a gay one.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >he thinks they're gonna stop at one

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Winick would probably make him gay.
        Or he would give Jason an asian wife.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        If they don’t know what to do with Jason, then they should call Winick.

        Winnick wanted to make him a child prostitute

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          hot

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Tragedy is what makes Jason more interesting than the other Robins.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Whoop-dee-doo, every member of the Bat-Family has experienced tragedy.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Jason suffers more than any of them.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                That’s because he’s in the unfortunate position to be the in universe call out to the writers moronation and contrivance. He plays the role of pointing out how absurd shit is getting for Batman and how the code is being stretched because you have to have your villains do edgy shit and be mass murderers if you want to sell comics nowadays.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                No, he doesn't, he's an overly dramatic and emotional pussy b***h.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                But enough about yourself

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I dunno Dick has gotten raped like 50 times and I see a lot of women who say they'd rather be killed (like Jason) than raped (like Dick)

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                imagine if a woman would rather get beaten to death with a crowbar than have sex with you
                The Joker was right, we live in a society

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                It’s one thing to be killed and another to be brutally tortured and then left trapped with a ticking bomb.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >raped like 50 times
                women can't rape

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Even Ace?

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                His most recent origin was that Ace was a fighting dog for Joker, but Joker just made them all fight eachother to the death and Ace killed all the other fighting hounds to survive. When Batman found him he was the only one left

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                If Ace tried to bite Joker would Bruce put him down?

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Yes but the others are loved by the family and have that understanding and support. He does not because they are inherently incompatible due to opposing beliefs and extreme circumstances. He will always be the black sheep.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I think that's mostly because of Dad. It's hard to imagine Damian or Tim 'Nuke the League from Orbit' Drake having too much of an issue.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                He doesn’t really know them that well. People like to paint all of them as brothers but how true is that when it comes to him? He doesn’t really have a bond with any of them. Realistically none of them should want anything to do with him.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      He did enough damage. If DC doesn't know what to do with Jason they can not use him.

      [...]
      Winnick wanted to make him a child prostitute

      That was his least bad idea.

      Whoop-dee-doo, every member of the Bat-Family has experienced tragedy.

      And? Archetypes like Damian and Tim don't interest me while Dick is just okay.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >He did enough damage.
        Stop being such a pussy. I know you don't like him because his story's tone is too mature for a manchild like you, but Winick was the only one who truly cared about Jason.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          NTA but if Winick really did care then he wouldn’t have pitched Jason as a bisexual child prostitute who probably has AIDS.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Being bi means absolutely nothing, and there are bi characters who end up with the opposite gender. Most people just hate it because comic writers keep forcing them to read cringy romance. As for the next part, we don’t know if he was a child prostitute or if he just got Donovan’d, but either way, it’s just “suffering builds character”.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >Being bi means absolutely nothing
              It means everything as a male character.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                No one cares about your tiresome homosexualry, go cry somewhere else.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Lmao look at what they did to Tim. Bisexuality is popularity death for make characters.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                No, it doesn’t mean anything. Romance in comics means nothing.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Look at Tim’s run and tell me it means nothing you liar.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                They literally turned Jason into a tentacle monster before. Do you think it means anything now?

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Being a tentacle monster is infinitely preferable to being gay.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                What about a gay tentacle monster that feels up all the other Bat-boys?

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Being a tentacle monster is infinitely preferable to being gay.
                Okay homosexual

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Characters don't ever get ungayed

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            lol yeah, Judd Winick of all people shows dislike of a character by invoking LGBT. That must be it.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You have to understand that Winnick is the kind of liberal who fancies himself a patron saint of troubled causes and people on the outskirts.
            His whole breakout was telling people how he was friends with a gay guy..with AIDS! in the early 90's. Making Jason any of those things would just be to show how special and important poor baby is.

  47. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Given his history and what he went through you would have expected Jason Todd to have found solid ground, but goddamn how can someone not be a doomer with how DC treats their properties.

  48. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    DC doesn't know what to do with fricking any of their IPs anymore. It's been wheel-spinning for the last 15 years.

  49. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The Batfam is so insanely bloated and they keep adding new members and yet writers STILL only want to focus on the same old core characters.

  50. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Why can’t Jason just get his own city? I mean isn’t there a DC equivalent to Newark they can put him where he can start taking down crime families?

  51. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    This is what DC should have done.

    >Jason
    Stays an anti-hero, doesn't relax on the idea that Bruce's methods don't work. Fully becomes DC's Punisher and is allowed to take B-F villains off the board. Establish The Outlaws again and have him team with people who fall into that code, but don't always have him teaming up.

    >Tim
    Should have retired, gone to college, married Tam, and worked at WayneTech under Lucious and then ultimately took over Lucious's position in the company. He gets to keep the Batfam secret, but isn't involved in the life... Unless shit hits the fan. Give him a new codename and suit, or make him Red X for these returns. Boom, done.

    >Barbara
    Put the b***h back in the wheelchair, have her train Cass/Steph and have her run interference as Oracle.

  52. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I think Jason should have stayed dead, not because I dislike him, but because a proper character arc for him as Red Hood does not lend itself to an infinitely ongoing story. Plus all the historical revisionism about his tenure as a Robin. DC doesn't want to commit to any particular permanent direction for him, but he more than anyone else in the Batfamily besides Bruce needs that in order to function. Everything about him Post-Flashpoint has been painful to watch.

  53. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    How would Pre-Crisis Jason react if he died and came back the same way Post-Crisis Jason did? Given he was essentially a redheaded Dick clone?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I think there was some weird consideration of Red Hood being the Pre-Crisis Jason that survived somehow and went mad at learning his Post-Crisis self's fate, but that's a thought experiment for sure.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Its because the initial idea of the IC tie-ins was pre-crisis remnants popping up in the mainline titles. Winnick managed to change it to be another Post-crisis Jason from an unseen timeline where he lived(barely, was still about to die)who swapped places with Jason's body- effectively it's still the main universe Jason though.
        Also kinda fun fact- they never actually revealed what changed or retconned the superboy punch post-flashpoint. They glaze over it which makes people think it was the Lazarus pit, but Talia says they found him in a debilitated state like he was pre-flashpoint before tossing him in the pit.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          they should make it that Joker somehow brought him back to life lol just rub more and more salt in the wound

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The Joker sees killing and reviving Jason as part of the chase, until he gets bored and wants to off him for good.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          There was also talk of Red Hood being an Earth-Two Jason which only begs the question of what other unseen counterparts would be like in that world. Johns had some weird unexplained shit in IC with having Bette get transported to that world, implying there was some Bat-Girl there too (which was only a theory presented by DC editorial and never confirmed on-panel like the Earth-Two Batwoman).

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Its because the initial idea of the IC tie-ins was pre-crisis remnants popping up in the mainline titles. Winnick managed to change it to be another Post-crisis Jason from an unseen timeline where he lived(barely, was still about to die)who swapped places with Jason's body- effectively it's still the main universe Jason though.

          There was also talk of Red Hood being an Earth-Two Jason which only begs the question of what other unseen counterparts would be like in that world. Johns had some weird unexplained shit in IC with having Bette get transported to that world, implying there was some Bat-Girl there too (which was only a theory presented by DC editorial and never confirmed on-panel like the Earth-Two Batwoman).

          >There was also talk of Red Hood being an Earth-Two Jason which only begs the question of what other unseen counterparts would be like in that world. Johns had some weird unexplained shit in IC with having Bette get transported to that world, implying there was some Bat-Girl there too (which was only a theory presented by DC editorial and never confirmed on-panel like the Earth-Two Batwoman).

          Can I get a source on these? This sounds fascinating.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I'll have to attempt to dig it up, CBR, newsarama and other comic book websites nuking THEIR ENTIRE BACKLOG of articles and interviews is hell for the
            DC used to have comic con panels audio recorded on the site, those are gone too. It's insane how much information that was out there is just lost now.
            That said all the ideas for resurrected Jason's alternate possible identities were likely more after the fact than

            It’s a good thing he got swapped with another version of himself because knowing what they do to corpses it sounds even more painful to be revived like that.

            Jason didn't actually get autopsied, as popular as the idea that he has a big autopsy scar seems to be. Bruce managed to get his body in without needing it examined. Also had a closed casket ceremony that was handled quickly so possibly not embalmed either. Though as is it wouldn't matter since his body was regressed to one before he died.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              I remember pre-Prime Punch reveal, some fans theorized the League of Assassins stole the body before it actually shipped to the USA and the incredibly decomposed mummy Bruce had to see in Africa was somebody else's corpse.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                wasn't that what happened in the animated movie? They swapped out Jason's corpse with a fake before Bruce got back to America.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                It works better than the punch, that's for sure. And to explain away some previous canon drop in one Batman or Detective Comics issue where they explained Bruce had to do a closed casket because the coroner in Africa's embalming standards weren't to those of the USA. Made sure to show us a rotting Jason just to seal it.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Whoops I brain farted the whole first part
              * interviews is hell for the archival of all this information.
              * were likely more after the fact than the plan from the start. Winnick was writing a post-resurrection Jason with only the tangential idea of it being tied to crisis. The idea of it being the superboy punch wasn't finalized until some time later.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Wait so you’re telling me my guy never got embalmed? Bastards wanted my boy to rot

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Nope, as with

                It works better than the punch, that's for sure. And to explain away some previous canon drop in one Batman or Detective Comics issue where they explained Bruce had to do a closed casket because the coroner in Africa's embalming standards weren't to those of the USA. Made sure to show us a rotting Jason just to seal it.

                , it got explained that Ethiopia doesn't take care to preserve their corpses the way Americans would so Bruce had to not only see Jason dead and bloody but THEN see him as a stinking, deformed corpse decomposing to the bones.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Oh I just assumed he’d get a good guy to take care of him because he’s rich. Also in

                Its because the initial idea of the IC tie-ins was pre-crisis remnants popping up in the mainline titles. Winnick managed to change it to be another Post-crisis Jason from an unseen timeline where he lived(barely, was still about to die)who swapped places with Jason's body- effectively it's still the main universe Jason though.
                Also kinda fun fact- they never actually revealed what changed or retconned the superboy punch post-flashpoint. They glaze over it which makes people think it was the Lazarus pit, but Talia says they found him in a debilitated state like he was pre-flashpoint before tossing him in the pit.

                he should’ve been rotting way more if he wasn’t preserved at all.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Yeah, the glimpse of decomposed Jason there is a lot "prettier" than what they'd showed in that one story with the corpse lore. You'd even wonder the point of putting it a suit and not just zipping it up in body bag with deodorizing powder, but I guess Bruce was all about the formalities.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Do you have the page? Sounds interesting.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Not on me at the moment, but it should be in Batman: Gotham Knights #44 and is pretty gnarly.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Not on me at the moment, but it should be in Batman: Gotham Knights #44 and is pretty gnarly.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                poor lil guy. Crazy to think this was just a year or so before he was brought back.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                man that's fricked up.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Poor boy. And then they bury him alongside the woman who got him killed. Did he ever say anything about what she did?

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                imagine if sheila had been rezzed in blackest night to go after jason

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The worst thing is he would probably still forgive her if she came back.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          It’s a good thing he got swapped with another version of himself because knowing what they do to corpses it sounds even more painful to be revived like that.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Wait, doesn't this mean there's a universe where effectively Jason never came back? Assuming that timeline's Bruce didn't his Jason going missing and just thought the corpse he found was his own Jason.

            Imagine the multiverse custody battle if the truth is ever revealed.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              That'll be the event if DC is running short on ideas: Crisis of Infinite Jasons.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Batman has to team up with Joker to beat their leader to death with crowbars

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Which Jason is most qualified to be the leader of all of them?

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                It’s the original Jason from DITF. Reveal he got bodyswapped after death with an AU counterpart who survived

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I nominate a third protagonist so that Jason Prime may experience the almighty three crowbar beating

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Two-Face, since he killed Jason's dad?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Probably a bit better because this guy had a loving home before he was orphaned and his adoptive father and brother really cared about him. Also he had a girlfriend. It’s tragic the only thing they brought back from this guy was the ginger hair before it was retconned again.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        One on hand, it'd be nice if somebody acknowledged Rena. But on the other, knowing DC, we'd probably get her killed or corrupted in some way.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Rena having her existence acknowledged in some way would be nice. I wouldn’t want her to be brought back either though.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Pre-Crisis Jason is still pissed that he wasn't avenged, but his better foundation means he understands why Bruce didn't kill the Joker.
        >he accepts that Bruce is an unhinged weirdo barely holding on by a thread most of the time and that killing the Joker would send him over the edge.
        >no, what really pisses him off is how Bruce let the Joker kill his capacity to care about other people.
        >in a way, he let the Joker win by becoming a darker Batman than he was before.

  54. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Estrogen might save him.

  55. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Jason AND Tim thread
    >no one talks about Tim
    lol

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Tim needs more bizarre fricky canon to roast, quickly, before the Jasonposters win!

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Jason has always been more interesting. Usually to his detriment.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *