A bit of both, JJ setting up the entire trilogy just to frick off for some reason, only to then decide to come back and fix the mistakes Ryan made even though it was JJs fault in the first place for leaving, the whole thing was a clusterfrick
His. JJ set up plenty of interesting stories, and yeah I'm sure JJ had no payoff written down, but that was Rian's job. Instead of doing his job, Rian just threw everything into the garbage bin and didn't replace it with anything. Disney knew JJ's mystery box bullshit weaknesses, brought somebody in to mitigate it, and then that somebody just didn't do their job.
Ultimate blame lies with Kathleen Kennedy though. She shouldn't have let JJ start a story with no ending (or hired JJ at all), she shouldn't have let Rian throw everything into the trash, she shouldn't have taken the biggest money making IP in Hollywood history and let it turn into something that gets outdone by Guardians of the Galaxy.
You'll never acknowledge it because you're a midwit contrarian reddit refugee, but the fandom was abuzz with speculation after TFA. People wanted to know who Rey and her parents were, who Snoke was, where did the First Order come from, why did Luke leave, what happened between him and Kylo, and a thousand other things.
Rian threw every bit of that in the trash, and what did he replace it with? It really has nothing to do with whether you liked TFA or not, from a franchise/trilogy perspective, it was a huge blunder, and Disney has been ignoring their own trilogy ever since.
Nope. Sorry.
If you didn’t realize TFA was absolute dogshit from the first time you saw it, you’re not a midwit, you’re a moron.
The plot is entirely antithetical to the original trilogy and the sequels were ruined from the start.
Isn’t it interesting how much of those theories were about trying to plug pre-existing bits of the IP into TFA instead of speculating or just enthusing about how the new characters might interact with each other?
Exactly this. Stuff like Rey's background was interesting at the time. Snoke was actually menacing and mysterious in TFA. The First Order had a lot of potential.
Thing is, it was all just potential. Without any thought-out plan to realize it, which we didn't know at the time. There were also homosexuals like
Nope. Sorry.
If you didn’t realize TFA was absolute dogshit from the first time you saw it, you’re not a midwit, you’re a moron.
The plot is entirely antithetical to the original trilogy and the sequels were ruined from the start.
who spouted hate since the beginning because popular thing bad. Their opinion never mattered, but after the TLJ fiasco it was validated to an extent.
It would have made more sense that the empire was a huge sprawling military power and beauracracy and that while they celebrated success at the end of rotj, the empire managed to pull itself back together and come back swinging. But the first order itself was moronic - some fringe sect that became even more powerful than the original empire? A planetary death star with splitting beams? A vader wannabe with a moronic background? Muh desert planet jedi saviour part 2? Completely sidelining the most popular characters for unlikeable ones?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>It would have made more sense that the empire was a huge sprawling military power and beauracracy and that while they celebrated success at the end of rotj, the empire managed to pull itself back together and come back swinging
That's basically what happened in the eu. The new republic spent 20 years mopping up.
We're you here opening night when tfa was being torn to shreds? Anyone who was invested in star wars saw the lack of continuity with the old movies instantly.
You'll never acknowledge it because you're a midwit contrarian reddit refugee, but the fandom was abuzz with speculation after TFA. People wanted to know who Rey and her parents were, who Snoke was, where did the First Order come from, why did Luke leave, what happened between him and Kylo, and a thousand other things.
Rian threw every bit of that in the trash, and what did he replace it with? It really has nothing to do with whether you liked TFA or not, from a franchise/trilogy perspective, it was a huge blunder, and Disney has been ignoring their own trilogy ever since.
>People wanted to know who Rey and her parents were
RJ making her a nobody was the one saving grace of TLJ.
You're either a larping zoomer, or telling the truth about being too stupid to recognize what the prequels did. I'll let you pick your own flavor of shame here.
You're sucking nu wars wiener, you don't have a leg to stand on.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I'm "sucking nu wars wiener", even though I greatly dislike the sequels, have never even seen the third one, and literally wish death on JJ, Rian, and KK?
You're not able to make a coherent argument with exaggeration and mind reading, so I'll go ahead and assume my original statement was correct, and you're a larping zoom zoom.
2 years ago
Anonymous
tfa completely lacked any logical consistency with the other star wars movie and lacked any internal logical consistency even as a stand alone movie.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Okay. That has nothing to do with what I'm saying. I can dislike the prequels and the sequels at the same time, knuckle dragger.
JJ turned off the engines in the Star Wars plane by creating the most boring, generic and bland story you could imagine. If Rian Johnson didn't exist Star Wars would still have crashed, just in a slow and painful descent.
Rian decided to turn the engines back on and nosedive the whole thing so we wouldn't need to necessarily suffer over multiple years but just end it with the second movie. We should be thankful really.
Sure a skillful pilot might have been able to save the crashing plane and you might be bummed out that nobody saved Star Wars but maybe this is really for the better. It was only a matter of time before Star Wars ran out of fuel anyway.
So really we should thank Johnson for giving Star Wars the mercy kill. At least we can appreciate the OT and Prequels that way and view them completely separately from Disney Shit because RJ gave gave us a direct point where we all can agree that Star Wars turned to shit.
Why didn’t they do something with the Old Republic? Why didn’t they make a story following Revan? Why didn’t they make a story following Bane or the plethora of other characters that have already been autistically fleshed out by 35 year old Star Wars man children? It would have taken less effort and budget on their part while simultaneously being scores more interesting than a Black person/chink romance in some galactic space israelite casino with these comically one dimensional Mr. Monopoly characters. What the frick were they thinking?
Both.
JJ kneecapped the ST by pushing the reset button and then doing absolutely nothing with it, but a competent director could have bypassed that by simply ignoring all of the implications. Remember that TFA established NOTHING about the state of the galaxy, instead relying on memberberries to imply, so Rian could easily have brushed it aside.
However even considering what JJ did, the excuse doesn't fly because Rian took every single one of JJ's implications, cemented them into fact and then doubled down. Don't believe me? >JJ implies the first order has moronic resources. Rian states they take over the galaxy in a fortnight >JJ implies the republic has no standing army. Rian confirms it was all blown up in one strike >JJ implies Luke was a useless homosexual that ran away rather than helping. Rian triples down >JJ implies Snoke was a powerful force user. Rian shows him effortlessly pulling tricks that killed Luke
Etc
>JJ undoes all gains made by the Rebels in the OT, undoes Hans growth, sets up "mystery boxes" with no payoff, and rehashes everything from it, including the starfighters >Rian uses this as a springboard for his ultimate franchise destroying vanity project >Yidsney then gives JJ shekels to salvage their trilogies reputation when he lacks the talent and creative ability to do so >Sequel Trilogy is now both radioactive as a setting and culturally irrelevant
He literally did nothing wrong. Stupid normies/zoomers went apeshit because: >not muh luke, luke would never hurt anybody 🙁
luke foresaw what kylo ren would become and reacted for a split second in panic >they killed muh snoke 🙁
Dumb idiots don't realize that his death works perfectly in the context of the film showing that kylo ren is more powerful than anyone anticipated, and in true star wars fashion the apprentice kills the sith master >muh leia can't float in space >:(
morons who haven't seen roj wouldn't know that it's well established leia is force sensitive >muh rey's parents were supposed to be special >:(
It works better that they were literal nobodies as it adds more dimension to her character but you can't expect idiots to care about good characterization, they just want to be fed generic inconsequential backstories >it's not muh star wars >:(
Normies back in the day also attacked empire for not following the same formula of its immediate predecessor, but even they turned around and later acknowledged it's the strongest of the original trilogy. just because something is slightly different doesn't mean it's bad
And then of course you have the chuds who think it's bad only because apparently it's too "progressive" which is an utterly moronic contention
How about Finn, a somehow unblooded child soldier who despite now being an adult raised his entire life in first order indoctrination, somehow wasn't actually indoctrinated and nobody ever noticed? How about his devestation at his best friend being killed and shorty after becoming instant best friends with the guy who killed his former best friend? How about him whooping and hollering with glee while his new best friend kills his former brothers?
In that case. Tfa was completely inconsistent with the estsblished characters that Luke and Han would sit back and watch the first order become more powerful than the empire, it was completely illogical that the new Republic would allow it to happen either. Or that the only resistance to them would be leia and a handful of her friends which somehow didn't include Luke or Han or Chewie or Lando. Reys use of the force and instant mastery the day after learning it was a real thing was completely inconsistent with what was shown in the other movies, even Anakin needed a decade of training to reach a tier consistent with other jedi, rey cut down the grandson of the chosen one who had been trained for years by both the strongest light side and dark side force users in the galaxy the day after she found out the force was real. Snoke is presented as having lived though the events of both other trilogies and shown to be as powerful if not more so than palpatine but for some reason played no part in anything and neither Yoda or Palpatine knew he existed.
>normies back in the day attacked empire
TLJoids love to claim this but where’s the beef? Every person I’ve ever talked to who saw it in theaters said they and their friends loved it and every contemporary review of it I’ve found is positive
TFA seemed to establish that the Republic existed, and was funding a Resistance within the territory of an Imperial rump state, which was itself separate from the First Order, which it was funding. But after TFA, it all just blends together and its not clear anyone else even watched the movie, its all muddied.
In that case. Tfa was completely inconsistent with the estsblished characters that Luke and Han would sit back and watch the first order become more powerful than the empire, it was completely illogical that the new Republic would allow it to happen either. Or that the only resistance to them would be leia and a handful of her friends which somehow didn't include Luke or Han or Chewie or Lando. Reys use of the force and instant mastery the day after learning it was a real thing was completely inconsistent with what was shown in the other movies, even Anakin needed a decade of training to reach a tier consistent with other jedi, rey cut down the grandson of the chosen one who had been trained for years by both the strongest light side and dark side force users in the galaxy the day after she found out the force was real. Snoke is presented as having lived though the events of both other trilogies and shown to be as powerful if not more so than palpatine but for some reason played no part in anything and neither Yoda or Palpatine knew he existed.
>could have had a Cold War scenario with the Republic growing in strength and resources while Imperial remnants scrape up all the resources they can >we will never see what the galaxy would be like if Mon Mothma didn't do that disarmament shit >we will never see shiny new New Republic starfighters and spacecraft, or experimental fighters remniscent of the Cold Wars X-Planes >could set a multitude of self-contained stories where the New Republic and Imperial Remnants have mininal to no involvement >could essentially print money by having Luke run his own successful Jedi Academy and introduce new characters that way
>midichlorian shit
Only fricking morons who get their opinions from youtube videos have a problem with them. Besides that the concept art looked fantastic and at least George would have pushed star wars and cinema forward again.
People had a problem with them before you and youtube were born. Disagreeing with anything and everything so a stranger on Cinemaphile will notice you isn't a sustainable way to live your life, you need to get psychiatric help.
>People had a problem with them before you and youtube were born
Buy most people regurgitating the opinion here weren't even born themselves when it came out and are unable to articulate why they're a problem, they're just following the script.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>why they're a problem
They turn mysticism and religion into (bad) science. It isn't complicated. Not everything needs to be explained in Treknobabble.
2 years ago
Anonymous
They're not the force, that's a morons interpretation. I don't find it remotely odd that space aged monks would have investigated their powers. The whills, the nature of the force, the chosen one prophecy are all steeped in mysticism.
Both of them were at fault along with a lot of other people.
Iger was at fault for wanting a Star Wars movie every years
Kennedy was at fault for not overseeing effectively
JJ was at fault for making TFA the way he did with stupid mystery boxes and memberberries, and not leaving concrete plans to follow
Rian was at fault for going in directions that caused people to lose interest without adding real hooks
JJ was at fault again for doing Episode 9, which somehow made the Trevorrow ideas look good
JJ didn't make episode 1
Both
A bit of both, JJ setting up the entire trilogy just to frick off for some reason, only to then decide to come back and fix the mistakes Ryan made even though it was JJs fault in the first place for leaving, the whole thing was a clusterfrick
>JJ setting up the entire trilogy
tfa ruined star wars, there was no coming back from that. Don't take that as a defence of anything rian did
His. JJ set up plenty of interesting stories, and yeah I'm sure JJ had no payoff written down, but that was Rian's job. Instead of doing his job, Rian just threw everything into the garbage bin and didn't replace it with anything. Disney knew JJ's mystery box bullshit weaknesses, brought somebody in to mitigate it, and then that somebody just didn't do their job.
Ultimate blame lies with Kathleen Kennedy though. She shouldn't have let JJ start a story with no ending (or hired JJ at all), she shouldn't have let Rian throw everything into the trash, she shouldn't have taken the biggest money making IP in Hollywood history and let it turn into something that gets outdone by Guardians of the Galaxy.
Kathleen Kennedy has been a parasite in the industry for 40 years
>JJ set up plenty of interesting stories
Remaking A New Hope with worse characters and a completely moronic plot isn’t an interesting story.
You'll never acknowledge it because you're a midwit contrarian reddit refugee, but the fandom was abuzz with speculation after TFA. People wanted to know who Rey and her parents were, who Snoke was, where did the First Order come from, why did Luke leave, what happened between him and Kylo, and a thousand other things.
Rian threw every bit of that in the trash, and what did he replace it with? It really has nothing to do with whether you liked TFA or not, from a franchise/trilogy perspective, it was a huge blunder, and Disney has been ignoring their own trilogy ever since.
Nope. Sorry.
If you didn’t realize TFA was absolute dogshit from the first time you saw it, you’re not a midwit, you’re a moron.
The plot is entirely antithetical to the original trilogy and the sequels were ruined from the start.
You're not smart enough to have this conversation with me.
Isn’t it interesting how much of those theories were about trying to plug pre-existing bits of the IP into TFA instead of speculating or just enthusing about how the new characters might interact with each other?
Yes, much of the speculation about the seventh film in a long running franchise involved other aspects of said franchise. What a genius observation.
If you can’t distinguish between parasitic interest and constructive interest I can’t help you
>midwit
Opinion discarded
Exactly this. Stuff like Rey's background was interesting at the time. Snoke was actually menacing and mysterious in TFA. The First Order had a lot of potential.
Thing is, it was all just potential. Without any thought-out plan to realize it, which we didn't know at the time. There were also homosexuals like
who spouted hate since the beginning because popular thing bad. Their opinion never mattered, but after the TLJ fiasco it was validated to an extent.
None of it ever made any sense tfa is one of the stupidest movies ever made.
It would have made more sense that the empire was a huge sprawling military power and beauracracy and that while they celebrated success at the end of rotj, the empire managed to pull itself back together and come back swinging. But the first order itself was moronic - some fringe sect that became even more powerful than the original empire? A planetary death star with splitting beams? A vader wannabe with a moronic background? Muh desert planet jedi saviour part 2? Completely sidelining the most popular characters for unlikeable ones?
>It would have made more sense that the empire was a huge sprawling military power and beauracracy and that while they celebrated success at the end of rotj, the empire managed to pull itself back together and come back swinging
That's basically what happened in the eu. The new republic spent 20 years mopping up.
true but the morons here won't accept it
We're you here opening night when tfa was being torn to shreds? Anyone who was invested in star wars saw the lack of continuity with the old movies instantly.
Tell that to Kanjiklub.
>People wanted to know who Rey and her parents were
RJ making her a nobody was the one saving grace of TLJ.
>JJ set up plenty of interesting stories
jj ruined star wars, fricking idiot.
Episode 1 ruined Star Wars before you were born. The average Cinemaphile shitter has no idea what it was like in the before time.
I'm 38 years old.
You're either a larping zoomer, or telling the truth about being too stupid to recognize what the prequels did. I'll let you pick your own flavor of shame here.
You're sucking nu wars wiener, you don't have a leg to stand on.
I'm "sucking nu wars wiener", even though I greatly dislike the sequels, have never even seen the third one, and literally wish death on JJ, Rian, and KK?
You're not able to make a coherent argument with exaggeration and mind reading, so I'll go ahead and assume my original statement was correct, and you're a larping zoom zoom.
tfa completely lacked any logical consistency with the other star wars movie and lacked any internal logical consistency even as a stand alone movie.
Okay. That has nothing to do with what I'm saying. I can dislike the prequels and the sequels at the same time, knuckle dragger.
He didn't want to work off of any mystery boxes JJ left Disney with and I don't blame him. Too bad his movie still sucks.
*subverts you*
He ruined SW on purpose and I applaud him for that. 'Fans' deserve TLJ
JJ turned off the engines in the Star Wars plane by creating the most boring, generic and bland story you could imagine. If Rian Johnson didn't exist Star Wars would still have crashed, just in a slow and painful descent.
Rian decided to turn the engines back on and nosedive the whole thing so we wouldn't need to necessarily suffer over multiple years but just end it with the second movie. We should be thankful really.
Sure a skillful pilot might have been able to save the crashing plane and you might be bummed out that nobody saved Star Wars but maybe this is really for the better. It was only a matter of time before Star Wars ran out of fuel anyway.
So really we should thank Johnson for giving Star Wars the mercy kill. At least we can appreciate the OT and Prequels that way and view them completely separately from Disney Shit because RJ gave gave us a direct point where we all can agree that Star Wars turned to shit.
Take that back
Why didn’t they do something with the Old Republic? Why didn’t they make a story following Revan? Why didn’t they make a story following Bane or the plethora of other characters that have already been autistically fleshed out by 35 year old Star Wars man children? It would have taken less effort and budget on their part while simultaneously being scores more interesting than a Black person/chink romance in some galactic space israelite casino with these comically one dimensional Mr. Monopoly characters. What the frick were they thinking?
JJ gave him a wet fart but he chose to throw a nihilistic b***h fit instead of trying to repair what had been broken. Both share blame
Reminder all nu wars is homosexual shit
The sequels were terrible, but this trailer was hype in a bottle.
Both.
JJ kneecapped the ST by pushing the reset button and then doing absolutely nothing with it, but a competent director could have bypassed that by simply ignoring all of the implications. Remember that TFA established NOTHING about the state of the galaxy, instead relying on memberberries to imply, so Rian could easily have brushed it aside.
However even considering what JJ did, the excuse doesn't fly because Rian took every single one of JJ's implications, cemented them into fact and then doubled down. Don't believe me?
>JJ implies the first order has moronic resources. Rian states they take over the galaxy in a fortnight
>JJ implies the republic has no standing army. Rian confirms it was all blown up in one strike
>JJ implies Luke was a useless homosexual that ran away rather than helping. Rian triples down
>JJ implies Snoke was a powerful force user. Rian shows him effortlessly pulling tricks that killed Luke
Etc
>JJ undoes all gains made by the Rebels in the OT, undoes Hans growth, sets up "mystery boxes" with no payoff, and rehashes everything from it, including the starfighters
>Rian uses this as a springboard for his ultimate franchise destroying vanity project
>Yidsney then gives JJ shekels to salvage their trilogies reputation when he lacks the talent and creative ability to do so
>Sequel Trilogy is now both radioactive as a setting and culturally irrelevant
Remember how they made pic-related to hype up TLJ? I do.
He literally did nothing wrong. Stupid normies/zoomers went apeshit because:
>not muh luke, luke would never hurt anybody 🙁
luke foresaw what kylo ren would become and reacted for a split second in panic
>they killed muh snoke 🙁
Dumb idiots don't realize that his death works perfectly in the context of the film showing that kylo ren is more powerful than anyone anticipated, and in true star wars fashion the apprentice kills the sith master
>muh leia can't float in space >:(
morons who haven't seen roj wouldn't know that it's well established leia is force sensitive
>muh rey's parents were supposed to be special >:(
It works better that they were literal nobodies as it adds more dimension to her character but you can't expect idiots to care about good characterization, they just want to be fed generic inconsequential backstories
>it's not muh star wars >:(
Normies back in the day also attacked empire for not following the same formula of its immediate predecessor, but even they turned around and later acknowledged it's the strongest of the original trilogy. just because something is slightly different doesn't mean it's bad
And then of course you have the chuds who think it's bad only because apparently it's too "progressive" which is an utterly moronic contention
How about Finn, a somehow unblooded child soldier who despite now being an adult raised his entire life in first order indoctrination, somehow wasn't actually indoctrinated and nobody ever noticed? How about his devestation at his best friend being killed and shorty after becoming instant best friends with the guy who killed his former best friend? How about him whooping and hollering with glee while his new best friend kills his former brothers?
>morons who haven't seen roj wouldn't know that it's well established leia is force sensitive
How the frick is thus even an argument?
It's about being contrarian for (you)s, not about having reasonable and logically coherent things to say.
In that case. Tfa was completely inconsistent with the estsblished characters that Luke and Han would sit back and watch the first order become more powerful than the empire, it was completely illogical that the new Republic would allow it to happen either. Or that the only resistance to them would be leia and a handful of her friends which somehow didn't include Luke or Han or Chewie or Lando. Reys use of the force and instant mastery the day after learning it was a real thing was completely inconsistent with what was shown in the other movies, even Anakin needed a decade of training to reach a tier consistent with other jedi, rey cut down the grandson of the chosen one who had been trained for years by both the strongest light side and dark side force users in the galaxy the day after she found out the force was real. Snoke is presented as having lived though the events of both other trilogies and shown to be as powerful if not more so than palpatine but for some reason played no part in anything and neither Yoda or Palpatine knew he existed.
>normies back in the day attacked empire
TLJoids love to claim this but where’s the beef? Every person I’ve ever talked to who saw it in theaters said they and their friends loved it and every contemporary review of it I’ve found is positive
>TLJoids love to claim this but where’s the beef?
Their example is only one critic's review.
TFA seemed to establish that the Republic existed, and was funding a Resistance within the territory of an Imperial rump state, which was itself separate from the First Order, which it was funding. But after TFA, it all just blends together and its not clear anyone else even watched the movie, its all muddied.
See
>could have had a Cold War scenario with the Republic growing in strength and resources while Imperial remnants scrape up all the resources they can
>we will never see what the galaxy would be like if Mon Mothma didn't do that disarmament shit
>we will never see shiny new New Republic starfighters and spacecraft, or experimental fighters remniscent of the Cold Wars X-Planes
>could set a multitude of self-contained stories where the New Republic and Imperial Remnants have mininal to no involvement
>could essentially print money by having Luke run his own successful Jedi Academy and introduce new characters that way
They should have just let George make his stories
He described what he wanted to do, it was more midichlorian shit, so frick no.
>midichlorian shit
Only fricking morons who get their opinions from youtube videos have a problem with them. Besides that the concept art looked fantastic and at least George would have pushed star wars and cinema forward again.
People had a problem with them before you and youtube were born. Disagreeing with anything and everything so a stranger on Cinemaphile will notice you isn't a sustainable way to live your life, you need to get psychiatric help.
>People had a problem with them before you and youtube were born
Buy most people regurgitating the opinion here weren't even born themselves when it came out and are unable to articulate why they're a problem, they're just following the script.
>why they're a problem
They turn mysticism and religion into (bad) science. It isn't complicated. Not everything needs to be explained in Treknobabble.
They're not the force, that's a morons interpretation. I don't find it remotely odd that space aged monks would have investigated their powers. The whills, the nature of the force, the chosen one prophecy are all steeped in mysticism.
Both of them were at fault along with a lot of other people.
Iger was at fault for wanting a Star Wars movie every years
Kennedy was at fault for not overseeing effectively
JJ was at fault for making TFA the way he did with stupid mystery boxes and memberberries, and not leaving concrete plans to follow
Rian was at fault for going in directions that caused people to lose interest without adding real hooks
JJ was at fault again for doing Episode 9, which somehow made the Trevorrow ideas look good
He made kino
the truth is its YOU who is the problem as you consoome corporate garbage.