The first episode resembles one part of the short story but otherwise it doesn't really have anything to do with it
It's the same with the other stories although I only watched the first four
The Poe stories are far superior in my opinion
But for some reason Freddie's spouse got "spared". Death even tried to save her and the first kid even tho they decided to stay. She also tried to help the second one. Leo deserved a chance but got nothing. Everyone after also got fucked without any way out.
Could Death just make Leo and Lenore sterile?
>But for some reason Freddie's spouse got "spared".
She's disfigured for life, that's hardly spared. Verna warned her because she wasn't supposed to be there.
>Leo deserved a chance but got nothing. Everyone after also got fucked without any way out.
Leo got the chance not to replace his boyfriend's cat, which he murdered in a coked out rage fit. Verna told him multiple times that the black cat wasn't available. He chose to deceive his boyfriend.
Kate Siegel's character was also warned multiple times not to enter the lab, she probably had the most warnings of all.
Victorine was a horrible human being and deserved worse.
Tamerlane was told multiple times by multiple people to postpone the launch, but she didn't.
Everyone had ways out.
>that's hardly spared.
Yeah I know, still, kinda got a second chance to enjoy the rest of her life with her daughter despite >leaving her family and getting into usher bs >outright deciding to stay on the orgy despite being warned >Leo got the chance not to replace his boyfriend's cat
What chance? Death just said the cat wasn't for sale and he offered to make that place better if he could get that cat. With the other Death outright spoke and told them to get out
>Kate Siegel's character was also warned multiple times
She dies before Leo. >Tamerlane
She didn't die because of the launch tho
>kinda got a second chance to enjoy the rest of her life with her daughter despite
Her daughter dies you idiot. She also pays a heavy toll for her transgression , first by the acid, then by the abuse under her jealous husband’s care, and she is only able to survive and get to a better place after an extended period of anguish and hundreds of operations. The only reason she doesn’t outright die is because she isn’t of Usher blood. She still suffers enormously.
Her husband isn’t jealous. Her husband is scorned you israeli golem. Being betrayed doesn’t mean you are acting out your own moral failing for fucking caring about honoring vows.
>so demoralized by israeli inversion you lose all sense of morality the thing that makes a human instead of an animal
I might have misphrased my post. There isn't exactly a way out. They are doomed because of their father's action anyway. But Carla Gugino said in an interview that Verna would like to find a person who chooses a different option. I wonder what would have happened if anyone actually chose their "way out". >She didn't die because of the launch tho
She died because she had to. The circumstances are just for Verna's lulz, as demonstrated with Leonore.
>he offered to make that place better if he could get that cat.
Leo was a person who used his money to just get anything he wanted and live consequence free life to a point he was ready to just buy a new cat and pretend it was the old one, rather than come clean. He was just throwing his money around at the shelter because that’s how his entire life worked: just buy your way out of trouble and inconvenience. He didn’t care at all that the money could help, it was just a tool to get away with killing the cat.
>With the other Death outright spoke and told them to get out
Who are you referring to, Morelle? The Usher bloodline all had to die because of the original contract, Morelle is not part of that bloodline. And if you're asking why she gets to live despite choosing sin, Death can see the future and knows this woman will use the rest of her life to help so many people that Death itself loses count. Do you think it would overall to kill such a person because she wanted to cheat on her husband once? You would deny help to all of these people and you believe that to be justice?
>Do you think it would overall to kill such a person because she wanted to cheat on her husband once? You would deny help to all of these people and you believe that to be justice?
Verna doesn't care about helping people. She has sponsored at least 5 people with a kill count in the millions. She's only here for her personal amusement.
1 month ago
Anonymous
The show is definitely schizophrenic in that regard and does a really bad job of communicating what exactly Verna's goal is, but it definitely tries to give her some kind of moral compass. She goes easy on Lenore and gives her the whole spiel about Morelle going onto do good things in her memory, and she also intervenes and makes Frederick's punishment worse when he goes out of his way to be shittier than necessary, so she has some kind of moral compass, and she also monologues about how shitty and selfish people are. But the idea comes of as half baked.
I feel like the problem would be mitigated by allowing Verna to be the Devil rather than a combination of some weird combination of both Satan and Death. It feels like Flannigan isn't committed to what this character is really meant to represent. I would say for most of the series she seems like Satan and her goal is to strike up deals and bring out the worst in people, but then she's also warning some people and showing sympathy to the good natured characters. She's inconsistently written. On one hand she's this personification of evil and temptation, but then she's also a personification of death itself, which is impersonal and ultimately comes for everyone regardless of whether or not you're good or bad.
They should have split these traits into two characters. You can let Verna be the Devil and give all of the more magnanimous and helpful traits to some kind of angel character. Doesn't have to literally be a glorious winged homosexual, but somebody who can come in and warn the waitstaff and explain to Lenore what's happening and why or whatever. The easiest route would be to give this position to Anabelle Lee
1 month ago
Anonymous
Maybe this helps.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Verna is a primordial being that is fascinated and amused by seeing human being absolute worst shits on the planet and where they will go if given the ability to embrace those traits absolutely. But that’s also very predictable in a way, so she values it whenever she actually finds people who choose to be better than their basic violent and harmful impulses, because it’s much rarer and surprising. And thus it also deserves to be awarded.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>Verna is a primordial being
god I wish that was me
Morella wasn’t an Usher by blood so she was give a chance to save herself the way the wait staff was told to leave. She failed to heed it. The scene with Perry was basically Verna toying with him and signalling to you, the audience, that there was no escape and everyone in the bloodline was going to die, foreshadowing the eventual reveal about the pact made in 1980.
>But for some reason Freddie's spouse got "spared"
Why wouldn't she? She's not part of the Usher bloodline. I think this character's fate was extremely well done and felt very classical literature/Poe vibe. It's not like she gets off easily, she pays an enormous price for her transgressions. She is physically mutilated, loses her husband and daughter and has her teeth ripped out with pliers, but because she's still a redeemable person she is spared and goes on to live a good and charitable life. > Death even tried to save her and the first kid
What the fuck are you talking about, no she didn't? Her hands are never tied, she is the one who stipulated the terms of the deal and can do whatever she wants but still takes Lenore. In what way did she attempt to save her and fail?
Not really. I just watched the whole thing today and it’s super gay. Has some cool scenes but overall felt like it was just pushing globohomo way too hard
I find it hard to believe Victorine is supposed to be Roderick's child.
No wonder he slept with her mother, it must require a speed greater than light to escape her attractive forces.
They had to throw in 2 pajeets and a nagger as his kids. Immersion broke every time they interacted. Is it so hard to have an all white cast like Succession. Fuck Flanagan
I am certain it's biologically impossible for Victorine to be half white. Roderick would have to be at least 25% black for something like this to ever happen, and even then it's like 1 in a million. I really couldn't suspend my disbelief.
>mike flannagan >poe adaptation but with blacks and fags in it for whatever reason
What do you think retard? You don't have to watch every piece of shit media that netflix or hollywood shits out you know.
I hated the cuckold scene because it makes no sense
The cuckolding would be if the woman was a friend or something and she seduces him
The idea that a domestic scene with another woman pretending to be her is cuckolding is ridiculous
I stopped watching the show after the start of the Black Cat because I became too angry to continue
I read online that it was cuckolding so that's why I was mad but maybe I'm wrong
He cheated on his boyfriend, killed the original cat and lied about it running away and then got a replacement to pretend it was the same one, gave coke to one brother and hooked Prospero up with drug dealers to enable him to do his orgy party that lead to all those people then dying… as well as doing nothing except coasting on the family wealth (they made a point about him not even making video games, he just pays others to make them while he does nothing) and being hedonistic guy who only cares about sex and drugs.
Tamerlane wasn’t evil either. But they were still horrible, entitled and spoilt rich people who didn’t care at all how their family made its money. Lenore and Juno were basically the only good people in the family, and Lenore still had to die because of the pact and Juno was a drug addict in denial who only turned into someone who wanted to stop taking the insane amount of pain killers when she saw everyone else in the family die horribly.
Being a bitch control freak wife is not worse. Leo was cheating on his boyfriend, killed his boyfriend’s cat while blackout high, covered it up and then was going to dump the guy just like that when he told Leo that his drug use was getting out of hand, which it obviously was when he fucking killed the cat and couldn’t even remember doing it.
1 month ago
Anonymous
He never killed the cat, it was shown alive after he fell. And being married isn’t the same as being a boyfriend, Tamerlane was a cuck against her husbands wishes and used him for business so nah she’s way worse
1 month ago
Anonymous
>And being married isn’t the same as being a boyfriend
They were both relationships where the Usher spouse didn’t ever really give a shit about their partner’s feelings and were mostly props. Leo was a selfish piece of shit same way Tamerlane was. The only difference was that Tam was control freak while Leo was the opposite.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Leo at least expressed some remorse for the others being dead.
Fred was in the running for being an actual decent person he should have just divorced his wife for being a whore instead of the torture thing. Whole show was heavily feminist though once again Netflix pushing its gay agenda
1 month ago
Anonymous
Fred’s whole thing from episode one onwards was that he was the kid who was trying too hard to be liked and that’s why he mocked for being a suck up by the others because he so desperately wanted his dad to like him and make him the heir, not having the confidence to be his own man. Of course the second he ends up getting power and starts doing coke he loses it as it all goes to his and his deep vindictive jealousy was part of him being an insecure loser deep down. He wouldn’t be able to accept his wife cheating on him and leave her, she had to be punished while he pretends to be the perfect caring husband.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Sound pretty based to me. Morally bad should be punished and the world would be better. Instead morally bad people get to abuse others as long as it isn’t physical. Fuck that gay shit.
1 month ago
Anonymous
His wife literally gets showers with acid because she went to the party. Her body has massive amounts of third degree burns. WTF are you talking about.
Leo was entirely hedonistic and self indulgent slacker, just leeching off the excesses that his family fortune could provide him. He was also established to cheat on his boyfriend without remorse,
and was willing to drop him the second he wasn’t willing to enable his excessive drug habit. He didn’t even tell Leo to stop, just to cut down on it. Leo was pure gluttony and selfishness, who just happened to kinda have a soft spot to a sibling.
No Tammy and Fred did nothing wrong and were sad. Camille was also disgusting but didn’t do much underhanded her degenerate shit was at least agreed to and she didn’t manipulate or retaliate against her assistants.
He didn't kill the cat and he wasn't responsible for anything. He didn't sell the drugs, just hook Prospero up with whoever could sell it. I doubt that warrants a death sentence when Death tried to get Prospero out of the chopping block
>well knowing that he wouldn’t listen.
From what she says about other lives it seems like people have free will to branch out timelines. In another livre he chose to stop it all I guess. House of Usher lived for another 20 years and then Death came to collect
>In another livre he chose to stop it all I guess. House of Usher lived for another 20 years and then Death came to collect
Roderick was already dying when the show starts. He pours endless funds into Victorine's project because his own heart is failing. The children would have died at the time they did anyway.
That timeline would have been one where Roderick doesn’t take the pact. Hence they would have never been able to take over the company and people like Freddie wouldn’t have chosen to try and pretend they’re just like dad in attempt to please them and would have instead been able to become a brilliant poet, although a very broke one.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>people like Freddie wouldn’t have chosen to try and pretend they’re just like dad in attempt to please them and would have instead been able to become a brilliant poet, although a very broke one.
Roderick would have been the poet, Freddie would have been a dentist.
doesnt really matter if they were good people or bad people. they had to die.
I have to say something I liked for some reason was the fact that most of the partners the ushers had were really nice people.
asian twink, bill-t, the two interns, one leg, rod's first wife. I really dont know why I liked that but I did. nice contrast
>think the series is going to be about a cool allegory for the rich eating themselves from the inside ala; succession >it’s actually just a narrow diatribe of rich white men being the root of all modern day corruption
I’d be shocked if it wasn’t so played out these days
>it’s actually just a narrow diatribe of rich white men being the root of all modern day corruption
What really killed it for me was Verna not only being a forced female persona of the faustian devil (barely has any parallels to the original raven), but the shows insistence to emphasize her motivation as an allegory for men being the ultimate corrupting influence was incredibly insidious. It’s a caustic tale that has no right to be using one of EAP’s written namesake.
Cool, but when will talk about the fact that Midnight Mass is a ripoff of Shiki?
Shiki is an anime, but based on a normal novel, adapts a full story, would recommend.
Admittedly the head vampire is a e-boi, but I'm okay with that ofc.
like I said in the other thread, this stuff is a direct replacement for smutty romance novels, because women can’t read anymore. It is naturally repulsive to men.
>Does it get better
Surprisingly yes. I almost quit during the second episode, even the end didn't do much for me. But I was curious and continued and the show finally gets going in the third episode.
Nope western civilization is over, its only going to get worse from here on out. Thank God Poe couldn't see the insane degenerate shit of the future, a greater horror than even he could imagine.
3 episodes in now, Carla Gugino is super hot and enchanting when she speaks normally but whenever she puts on a quirky accent it's a bit cringe. Also why did they bring on someone with a fart fetish to write this episode
Imagine this show but it's like a silent film, no one says a word, and everything is sped up like 15% for comedic effect.
I think it would raise its rating by 2-3 at least.
I finished this show yesterday.
Me and my partner laughed at how nearly every single character was gay. Also so many fully black kids that are supposed to be mixed race?
Typical Netflix stuff but tbh it literally doesnt affect the plot or story whatsoever.
If people being gay and black ruins stuff for you then don't watch.
I don't get it, why do they paint Frederick as some sort of monster for treating his wife like the cheating hussy that got exactly what she deserved, like she is?
Maybe because the response to someone cheating isn’t to start torturing and pulling out their teeth. And Freddie’s a giant hypocrite when he adores and kissed his dad’s ass despite being a serial cheater with multiple bastard kids
There were multiple scenes in the show emphasising to you how ironclad and vicious the NDAs and prenups handled by Pym were. Watch the fucking show instead of seething at fictional people cheating on their spouse.
Which culture and which time period? Cheating absolutely should be punished we are just living through a down fall time period of degeneracy where bad moral actions are allowed.
You're arguing with Pharisees. They don't want punishment for moral transgressions, they want blood. They will tell you that what they're after is justice, but that is a lie. A wise man once said of this kind of person that when they lie they're speaking their native tongue.
No need to lie. I’m a Christian fascist and am 100% honest I want to punish poor morality and think it is more important to a healthy society than just punishing physical transgressions.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>build prayer room with wife in the house >lots of joyous times there when we can't make it to chapel on Sunday >some of the happiest memories form there as we worship the Lord together with the kids and then keep the Sabbath holy >wife passes away from illness >have to sell the house >realtor reports me to the police for suspected child abuse because the prayer room gave her "the ick"
1 month ago
Anonymous
>I’m a Christian fascist
As I said, a Pharisee. But if you are without sin, then by all means cast the stone
pointless trash and a waste of time >everyone dies, no moral justification, no explanations, just muh ghost
8 hours is ridiculous, you can remove half the cast and it has no effect on the story >remove mark hamill >remove madeline >remove rodericks junkie wife
none of them mattered for the plot
Did you even watch the show? I'm not saying it was a masterpiece, but literally everything you just said is wrong.
>everyone dies, no moral justification, no explanations, just muh ghost
Not everyone, just the ushers. and the moral justification was that Roderick and Madelaine put their own personal comfort and hunger for power above their own family, and it wasn't a ghost, it was some kind of Egyptian spirit demon thing that makes faustian bargains with people.
>remove mark hamill
Mark Hamill was literally plot armor provided by the demon, she basically admits this in the last episode. if he wasn't there the usher family would have been fucked long ago
>remove madeline
Are you retarded? if you remove madeline the story isn't even the same anymore. she is the one that encouraged Roderick to abandon his moral compass in the first place and started the entire chain of events.
>remove rodericks junkie wife
this one is almost valid, she really only existed to sugar coat the ending and do some last minute grandstanding about using their wealth to fight the opioid epidemic.
>remove rodericks junkie wife
Juno was the most wholesome character in the whole show and the running gag with her being in the will was really funny. Especially when at the end it's revealed that she inherits everything.
Pym is a character who shows how powerful the family is when he repeatedly gets special privileges from the cops. His investigation also works as a way to slowly build the question of whether Verna is a normal human (like another unknown heir killing off the competition) or a real supernatural creature. Not to mention offer plausible explanation early on how the Usher twins have been able to avoid prosecution for decades as well as foreshadow that they’re in fact murderers, because he’s their personal fixer who will do whatever it takes to get the job done.
Madeline is also absolutely crucial to the story, are you fucking stupid? She’s repeatedly shown to be the more sociopathic, ruthless and pragmatic one of the two who influences her brother time and time again to do shit and turn him into being more amoral, she even goes as far as talking him into trying to kill himself with an overdose near the end so that she could avoid her own death.
Juno isn’t as vital to the overall story but she serves a very clear and important purpose as well. Did you ignore the entire part where Roderick marries her simply because she’s able to take such insane high doses of the painkiller? Her very existence is Roderick trying to convince himself that his painkiller drug is actually good and not evil because she’s able to take it like candy. It also shows how, again this is consistently thematic throughout the show, the people marrying to the family are not as morally corrupt as the Ushers themselves are. She is the only one who shows up to just show support Tamerlane’s Goldbug launch, her aunt is there to look for Verna. Similarly Juno wants to become a better person and stop being an addict and uses considerable amount of her inheritance to help others, showing capability to grow beyond their character flaws, unlike anybody else in the family.
>homosexual British gamer runs around with Thor's hammer (after joking about how he got it from Hemsworth) and smashes walls to chase down a godawful CGI cat and then just fucking throws himself off a building like a Looney Tunes sketch >this is supposed to be scary/intense as indicated by the blaring dramatic music
This is probably the lowest point among all of Flanagan's works for me.
>knock off rian johnson script
Rian Johnson doesn't have a patent on gay shit. And Flanagan is still better because at least he can produce a cohesive story.
Did you guys know we just don’t spend enough money on food? Like if some people bought less yachts and jets and if Elon didn’t buy twitter the world wouldn’t have poverty?
Cause poverty is caused by capitalism, before capitalism no one ever went hungry or homeless.
Capitalism literally ensures people are left homeless despite constant building of luxury housing most people can’t afford and thousands of apartments left vacant because they’re just investments or way to hide your money.
We overproduce food and then throw a considerable amount of food away because it’s more profitable than making sure there would be no hunger in the world.
And pharmaceutical companies run by people like the Ushers (irl the Sacklers) single handedly have manufactured a giant drug addiction epidemic while profiting from it that is now cause of countless deaths every year. Same way energy companies and tobacco manufacturers have spent decades lying to the world about the negative impact and consequences of their product has on the health and safety of humans and the environment. All because capitalism incentivised them to seek short term profits over what was better for everyone.
Stop being 12. None of this capitalism it’s any economic system.
Walk 200 miles into the wilderness where there is no capitalism, where is the food and house? You won’t starve out there right?
Go to USSR, N Korea, and China, no homeless or hungry people right?
Most people didn’t go hungry through European winters under mercantilism right? No abbos or natives ever been hungry and all have real homes with amenities not huts and tents right?
Europe was bombed to the Stone Age, 1 marshal plan later and it’s the 1st world. Japan only country to be nuked but back to being 1st world. How many marshal plans have gone to Africa? How many wells have been dug for them?
To spite massive inflation food is probably the most subsidized thing in the US. Your food should cost triple at least. It gets thrown out bc of dumb ass regulations that don’t let you drink raw milk from your own cow and stupid tax codes that create losses the way it does. Those regulations and tax codes will exist in any system.
>capitalism is the problem >also money is the answer for everything >oh the fucking irony of holding the most capitalistic belief you ever possibly have
It’s actually money isn’t the answer, it’s morality and virtue.
Children were smarter and more educated before spending 35k/yr per child, society was safer and happier before spending billions on the police state and anti-depressants
Just give money to beneficial thing is low IQ and immature sophistry
I enjoyed it. It's pretty fun to watch all his degenerate kids die one by one, and in general the acting and writing is pretty solid. the "mystery" if you can even call it that, is way too fucking obvious, you can basically guess what Madeleine and Roderick did by episode 2. and as usual with this writer, he has a couple points where he gets way too obvious with projecting his own personal views into the plot. multiple references to fox news, trump, various other right wing figures. a few too many monologues for my taste, although the lemon monologue was pretty funny.
Everyone keeps being gay and that is very distracting, but it's Netflix. It's not as good as Midnight Mass, but it's also somehow better than Midnight Mass. I've enjoyed all of these Mike Flannagan shows for the most part, but their problem tends to be that they're overly long and end up the pacing always bottoms out toward the middle of the series. This one fixes that problem by making each episode relatively episodic and focusing on a single character's death/Poe short story. It was a clever way to go about it gives you a reason to watch each episode without the narrative screeching to a halt for two or three episodes.
My chief complaint overall is that Netflix is literally so woke that it's extremely distracting and does not feel true to life. Not every single person on earth is gay. I generally don't even care about this kind of thing but it's like they go out of their way to cram it into every episode and character interaction. In a cast of like 50 named characters, two of them are straight. Everyone else is some kind LGBTQXYZ
>the only white guy son is a bumbling retard and the most comically evil out of all them and Gugino, who has been speaking in flowery poetic bullshit to everyone else up to that point, says directly to him "you're a piece of shit, I'm going to directly intervene just this one time to make sure you suffer"
Now I normally don't give a shit about this kind of stuff, but I can't help but feel there was a teensy bit of agenda here.
not really no
The scene where all the degenerates at the degenerate sex and drugs party got killed with acid was a pretty good scene.
I clapped after that. Must be how God felt after the fireballs hit sodom and gomorrah
Does this have anything to do with the actual story?
this. i have the book on my shelf and honestly havent finished reading it yet. how true to the book is it
The first episode resembles one part of the short story but otherwise it doesn't really have anything to do with it
It's the same with the other stories although I only watched the first four
The Poe stories are far superior in my opinion
the show is an amalgamation of several different Poe stories
Yes. The wraparound is basically the story.
It's not even a book it's a short story.
>It's not even a book it's a short story.
hm went to check on youre right, maybe i only read that one and not the other stories in the same book
Yes it does. Each episode kills off a main character and this was one of them
Is it an allegory for AIDS?
And they became 1 flesh. That shit was really biblical for someone who loves mocking religion
>someone who loves mocking religion
Does he?
Flan khan is an atheist and mocks spiritual belief in each of his series.
But for some reason Freddie's spouse got "spared". Death even tried to save her and the first kid even tho they decided to stay. She also tried to help the second one. Leo deserved a chance but got nothing. Everyone after also got fucked without any way out.
Could Death just make Leo and Lenore sterile?
>But for some reason Freddie's spouse got "spared".
She's disfigured for life, that's hardly spared. Verna warned her because she wasn't supposed to be there.
>Leo deserved a chance but got nothing. Everyone after also got fucked without any way out.
Leo got the chance not to replace his boyfriend's cat, which he murdered in a coked out rage fit. Verna told him multiple times that the black cat wasn't available. He chose to deceive his boyfriend.
Kate Siegel's character was also warned multiple times not to enter the lab, she probably had the most warnings of all.
Victorine was a horrible human being and deserved worse.
Tamerlane was told multiple times by multiple people to postpone the launch, but she didn't.
Everyone had ways out.
>that's hardly spared.
Yeah I know, still, kinda got a second chance to enjoy the rest of her life with her daughter despite
>leaving her family and getting into usher bs
>outright deciding to stay on the orgy despite being warned
>Leo got the chance not to replace his boyfriend's cat
What chance? Death just said the cat wasn't for sale and he offered to make that place better if he could get that cat. With the other Death outright spoke and told them to get out
>Kate Siegel's character was also warned multiple times
She dies before Leo.
>Tamerlane
She didn't die because of the launch tho
>kinda got a second chance to enjoy the rest of her life with her daughter despite
Her daughter dies you idiot. She also pays a heavy toll for her transgression , first by the acid, then by the abuse under her jealous husband’s care, and she is only able to survive and get to a better place after an extended period of anguish and hundreds of operations. The only reason she doesn’t outright die is because she isn’t of Usher blood. She still suffers enormously.
Her husband isn’t jealous. Her husband is scorned you israeli golem. Being betrayed doesn’t mean you are acting out your own moral failing for fucking caring about honoring vows.
>so demoralized by israeli inversion you lose all sense of morality the thing that makes a human instead of an animal
I might have misphrased my post. There isn't exactly a way out. They are doomed because of their father's action anyway. But Carla Gugino said in an interview that Verna would like to find a person who chooses a different option. I wonder what would have happened if anyone actually chose their "way out".
>She didn't die because of the launch tho
She died because she had to. The circumstances are just for Verna's lulz, as demonstrated with Leonore.
They likely would have gotten a peaceful death. Instead of being potentially first tortured and then horribly dying.
>he offered to make that place better if he could get that cat.
Leo was a person who used his money to just get anything he wanted and live consequence free life to a point he was ready to just buy a new cat and pretend it was the old one, rather than come clean. He was just throwing his money around at the shelter because that’s how his entire life worked: just buy your way out of trouble and inconvenience. He didn’t care at all that the money could help, it was just a tool to get away with killing the cat.
>With the other Death outright spoke and told them to get out
Who are you referring to, Morelle? The Usher bloodline all had to die because of the original contract, Morelle is not part of that bloodline. And if you're asking why she gets to live despite choosing sin, Death can see the future and knows this woman will use the rest of her life to help so many people that Death itself loses count. Do you think it would overall to kill such a person because she wanted to cheat on her husband once? You would deny help to all of these people and you believe that to be justice?
>Do you think it would be better overall to kill such a person*
>Do you think it would overall to kill such a person because she wanted to cheat on her husband once? You would deny help to all of these people and you believe that to be justice?
Verna doesn't care about helping people. She has sponsored at least 5 people with a kill count in the millions. She's only here for her personal amusement.
The show is definitely schizophrenic in that regard and does a really bad job of communicating what exactly Verna's goal is, but it definitely tries to give her some kind of moral compass. She goes easy on Lenore and gives her the whole spiel about Morelle going onto do good things in her memory, and she also intervenes and makes Frederick's punishment worse when he goes out of his way to be shittier than necessary, so she has some kind of moral compass, and she also monologues about how shitty and selfish people are. But the idea comes of as half baked.
I feel like the problem would be mitigated by allowing Verna to be the Devil rather than a combination of some weird combination of both Satan and Death. It feels like Flannigan isn't committed to what this character is really meant to represent. I would say for most of the series she seems like Satan and her goal is to strike up deals and bring out the worst in people, but then she's also warning some people and showing sympathy to the good natured characters. She's inconsistently written. On one hand she's this personification of evil and temptation, but then she's also a personification of death itself, which is impersonal and ultimately comes for everyone regardless of whether or not you're good or bad.
They should have split these traits into two characters. You can let Verna be the Devil and give all of the more magnanimous and helpful traits to some kind of angel character. Doesn't have to literally be a glorious winged homosexual, but somebody who can come in and warn the waitstaff and explain to Lenore what's happening and why or whatever. The easiest route would be to give this position to Anabelle Lee
Maybe this helps.
Verna is a primordial being that is fascinated and amused by seeing human being absolute worst shits on the planet and where they will go if given the ability to embrace those traits absolutely. But that’s also very predictable in a way, so she values it whenever she actually finds people who choose to be better than their basic violent and harmful impulses, because it’s much rarer and surprising. And thus it also deserves to be awarded.
>Verna is a primordial being
god I wish that was me
Morella wasn’t an Usher by blood so she was give a chance to save herself the way the wait staff was told to leave. She failed to heed it. The scene with Perry was basically Verna toying with him and signalling to you, the audience, that there was no escape and everyone in the bloodline was going to die, foreshadowing the eventual reveal about the pact made in 1980.
>But for some reason Freddie's spouse got "spared".
Her punishment must be more severe.
>But for some reason Freddie's spouse got "spared"
Why wouldn't she? She's not part of the Usher bloodline. I think this character's fate was extremely well done and felt very classical literature/Poe vibe. It's not like she gets off easily, she pays an enormous price for her transgressions. She is physically mutilated, loses her husband and daughter and has her teeth ripped out with pliers, but because she's still a redeemable person she is spared and goes on to live a good and charitable life.
> Death even tried to save her and the first kid
What the fuck are you talking about, no she didn't? Her hands are never tied, she is the one who stipulated the terms of the deal and can do whatever she wants but still takes Lenore. In what way did she attempt to save her and fail?
Not really. I just watched the whole thing today and it’s super gay. Has some cool scenes but overall felt like it was just pushing globohomo way too hard
yes
they are all gay for a reason
>is called "fall of the house of usher"
>usher literally isn't even in the show
fucking netflix man
But his house is and it falls
You get to watch them die
I find it hard to believe Victorine is supposed to be Roderick's child.
No wonder he slept with her mother, it must require a speed greater than light to escape her attractive forces.
They had to throw in 2 pajeets and a nagger as his kids. Immersion broke every time they interacted. Is it so hard to have an all white cast like Succession. Fuck Flanagan
Awwwwwww did lil’ wacist anon get twiggewed again?
Hey nagger, stop talking to me. Thanks!
The fuck is with this bitch's accent she sounds drunk in every scene.
He would have had to venture deep into the Congo and fuck an indigenous tribeswoman to have a daughter this black
That is another way of saying "black hole", I guess.
I am certain it's biologically impossible for Victorine to be half white. Roderick would have to be at least 25% black for something like this to ever happen, and even then it's like 1 in a million. I really couldn't suspend my disbelief.
By this logic, the only confirmed heterosexual male character on the show must have been cucked by BBC and subsequently raised the man's child
It's stated that all children had DNA tests done to ensure they're actually his.
I think by episode three you would be crying in a fetal position if that’s your attitude
no, because even more people are revealed to be gay as the story progresses. like that attorney for example.
>mike flannagan
>poe adaptation but with blacks and fags in it for whatever reason
What do you think retard? You don't have to watch every piece of shit media that netflix or hollywood shits out you know.
>scene where the black woman changes the smoke alarm battery
Chuckled.
Arthur Pym was the most interesting character
I hated the cuckold scene because it makes no sense
The cuckolding would be if the woman was a friend or something and she seduces him
The idea that a domestic scene with another woman pretending to be her is cuckolding is ridiculous
>anon is too fucking stupid to understand it was about Tamerlane being a control freak
I stopped watching the show after the start of the Black Cat because I became too angry to continue
I read online that it was cuckolding so that's why I was mad but maybe I'm wrong
>I’m just complaining about shit I read online!
Oh so you’re doubly dumb
Well again, I may be wrong about it portraying a cuckold fetish but I still believe that it was aiming at that just poorly
You are wrong and it’s absolutely hilarious you think your feelings matter at all
> extremely rich people have weird fetishes
So out of place!
Cat death guy was the stupidest one I mean what did he even do that was wrong? I mean I guess it doesn’t matter they were all going to die anyway
He cheated on his boyfriend, killed the original cat and lied about it running away and then got a replacement to pretend it was the same one, gave coke to one brother and hooked Prospero up with drug dealers to enable him to do his orgy party that lead to all those people then dying… as well as doing nothing except coasting on the family wealth (they made a point about him not even making video games, he just pays others to make them while he does nothing) and being hedonistic guy who only cares about sex and drugs.
All pretty tame compared to everyone else though.
Tamerlane wasn’t evil either. But they were still horrible, entitled and spoilt rich people who didn’t care at all how their family made its money. Lenore and Juno were basically the only good people in the family, and Lenore still had to die because of the pact and Juno was a drug addict in denial who only turned into someone who wanted to stop taking the insane amount of pain killers when she saw everyone else in the family die horribly.
Tamerlane used her husband for all the wrong reasons though that’s way worse than cat guy
Being a bitch control freak wife is not worse. Leo was cheating on his boyfriend, killed his boyfriend’s cat while blackout high, covered it up and then was going to dump the guy just like that when he told Leo that his drug use was getting out of hand, which it obviously was when he fucking killed the cat and couldn’t even remember doing it.
He never killed the cat, it was shown alive after he fell. And being married isn’t the same as being a boyfriend, Tamerlane was a cuck against her husbands wishes and used him for business so nah she’s way worse
>And being married isn’t the same as being a boyfriend
They were both relationships where the Usher spouse didn’t ever really give a shit about their partner’s feelings and were mostly props. Leo was a selfish piece of shit same way Tamerlane was. The only difference was that Tam was control freak while Leo was the opposite.
Leo at least expressed some remorse for the others being dead.
Fred was in the running for being an actual decent person he should have just divorced his wife for being a whore instead of the torture thing. Whole show was heavily feminist though once again Netflix pushing its gay agenda
Fred’s whole thing from episode one onwards was that he was the kid who was trying too hard to be liked and that’s why he mocked for being a suck up by the others because he so desperately wanted his dad to like him and make him the heir, not having the confidence to be his own man. Of course the second he ends up getting power and starts doing coke he loses it as it all goes to his and his deep vindictive jealousy was part of him being an insecure loser deep down. He wouldn’t be able to accept his wife cheating on him and leave her, she had to be punished while he pretends to be the perfect caring husband.
Sound pretty based to me. Morally bad should be punished and the world would be better. Instead morally bad people get to abuse others as long as it isn’t physical. Fuck that gay shit.
His wife literally gets showers with acid because she went to the party. Her body has massive amounts of third degree burns. WTF are you talking about.
Leo also wasn't into it. He was living a pretty normal life even and also refused to do the PR stuff just like Lenore
>pretty normal life because he liked video games
Leo was entirely hedonistic and self indulgent slacker, just leeching off the excesses that his family fortune could provide him. He was also established to cheat on his boyfriend without remorse,
and was willing to drop him the second he wasn’t willing to enable his excessive drug habit. He didn’t even tell Leo to stop, just to cut down on it. Leo was pure gluttony and selfishness, who just happened to kinda have a soft spot to a sibling.
No Tammy and Fred did nothing wrong and were sad. Camille was also disgusting but didn’t do much underhanded her degenerate shit was at least agreed to and she didn’t manipulate or retaliate against her assistants.
he didnt even kill the cat. original cat shows up at the end.
He didn't kill the cat and he wasn't responsible for anything. He didn't sell the drugs, just hook Prospero up with whoever could sell it. I doubt that warrants a death sentence when Death tried to get Prospero out of the chopping block
Without the drugs the party couldn’t happen. Prospero was just Verna offering a warning while well knowing that he wouldn’t listen.
>well knowing that he wouldn’t listen.
From what she says about other lives it seems like people have free will to branch out timelines. In another livre he chose to stop it all I guess. House of Usher lived for another 20 years and then Death came to collect
>In another livre he chose to stop it all I guess. House of Usher lived for another 20 years and then Death came to collect
Roderick was already dying when the show starts. He pours endless funds into Victorine's project because his own heart is failing. The children would have died at the time they did anyway.
That timeline would have been one where Roderick doesn’t take the pact. Hence they would have never been able to take over the company and people like Freddie wouldn’t have chosen to try and pretend they’re just like dad in attempt to please them and would have instead been able to become a brilliant poet, although a very broke one.
>people like Freddie wouldn’t have chosen to try and pretend they’re just like dad in attempt to please them and would have instead been able to become a brilliant poet, although a very broke one.
Roderick would have been the poet, Freddie would have been a dentist.
Oh I got them mixed up.
I wonder what Madeline would have been
doesnt really matter if they were good people or bad people. they had to die.
I have to say something I liked for some reason was the fact that most of the partners the ushers had were really nice people.
asian twink, bill-t, the two interns, one leg, rod's first wife. I really dont know why I liked that but I did. nice contrast
episode 1
everyone is gay and also there's a Tucker Carlson joke
>Does it get better
What do you think, dummy?
>think the series is going to be about a cool allegory for the rich eating themselves from the inside ala; succession
>it’s actually just a narrow diatribe of rich white men being the root of all modern day corruption
I’d be shocked if it wasn’t so played out these days
>it’s actually just a narrow diatribe of rich white men being the root of all modern day corruption
What really killed it for me was Verna not only being a forced female persona of the faustian devil (barely has any parallels to the original raven), but the shows insistence to emphasize her motivation as an allegory for men being the ultimate corrupting influence was incredibly insidious. It’s a caustic tale that has no right to be using one of EAP’s written namesake.
The family is heavily allegorical of the Sackler dynasty who in real life created the modern opioid epidemic.
>a netflix original
>does it get better
>muh fall of the house of usher
fuck off I don't want to watch shit about that pedo RnB artist
to be fair Justin Timberlake was over 18 at the time
Cool, but when will talk about the fact that Midnight Mass is a ripoff of Shiki?
Shiki is an anime, but based on a normal novel, adapts a full story, would recommend.
Admittedly the head vampire is a e-boi, but I'm okay with that ofc.
like I said in the other thread, this stuff is a direct replacement for smutty romance novels, because women can’t read anymore. It is naturally repulsive to men.
>Does it get better
Surprisingly yes. I almost quit during the second episode, even the end didn't do much for me. But I was curious and continued and the show finally gets going in the third episode.
Nope western civilization is over, its only going to get worse from here on out. Thank God Poe couldn't see the insane degenerate shit of the future, a greater horror than even he could imagine.
3 episodes in now, Carla Gugino is super hot and enchanting when she speaks normally but whenever she puts on a quirky accent it's a bit cringe. Also why did they bring on someone with a fart fetish to write this episode
Imagine this show but it's like a silent film, no one says a word, and everything is sped up like 15% for comedic effect.
I think it would raise its rating by 2-3 at least.
normies wouldn't get it, they are plebs with no taste, this is why we need to govern society and impose these things on them
It's better than Hill House and Manor but nowhere near as good as Midnight Mass.
I finished this show yesterday.
Me and my partner laughed at how nearly every single character was gay. Also so many fully black kids that are supposed to be mixed race?
Typical Netflix stuff but tbh it literally doesnt affect the plot or story whatsoever.
If people being gay and black ruins stuff for you then don't watch.
>my partner
you can just say you are gay, it is fine
Im a girl ;_;
Holy shit, a unicorn!
I don't get it, why do they paint Frederick as some sort of monster for treating his wife like the cheating hussy that got exactly what she deserved, like she is?
Maybe because the response to someone cheating isn’t to start torturing and pulling out their teeth. And Freddie’s a giant hypocrite when he adores and kissed his dad’s ass despite being a serial cheater with multiple bastard kids
And what is the correct response?
Divorce? In a no fault divorce state?
Yes.
So she gets to cheat, and then take half your shit and get sole custody of your kid? That doesn't seem fair.
They all had prenups, moron.
Prenups don't hold up in court.
Yes they do.
Sure, buddy.
There were multiple scenes in the show emphasising to you how ironclad and vicious the NDAs and prenups handled by Pym were. Watch the fucking show instead of seething at fictional people cheating on their spouse.
Which culture and which time period? Cheating absolutely should be punished we are just living through a down fall time period of degeneracy where bad moral actions are allowed.
She had acid rain down on her for giving in to her temptations. I'd say she was punished enough.
You're arguing with Pharisees. They don't want punishment for moral transgressions, they want blood. They will tell you that what they're after is justice, but that is a lie. A wise man once said of this kind of person that when they lie they're speaking their native tongue.
No need to lie. I’m a Christian fascist and am 100% honest I want to punish poor morality and think it is more important to a healthy society than just punishing physical transgressions.
>build prayer room with wife in the house
>lots of joyous times there when we can't make it to chapel on Sunday
>some of the happiest memories form there as we worship the Lord together with the kids and then keep the Sabbath holy
>wife passes away from illness
>have to sell the house
>realtor reports me to the police for suspected child abuse because the prayer room gave her "the ick"
>I’m a Christian fascist
As I said, a Pharisee. But if you are without sin, then by all means cast the stone
Not enough.
pointless trash and a waste of time
>everyone dies, no moral justification, no explanations, just muh ghost
8 hours is ridiculous, you can remove half the cast and it has no effect on the story
>remove mark hamill
>remove madeline
>remove rodericks junkie wife
none of them mattered for the plot
Did you even watch the show? I'm not saying it was a masterpiece, but literally everything you just said is wrong.
>everyone dies, no moral justification, no explanations, just muh ghost
Not everyone, just the ushers. and the moral justification was that Roderick and Madelaine put their own personal comfort and hunger for power above their own family, and it wasn't a ghost, it was some kind of Egyptian spirit demon thing that makes faustian bargains with people.
>remove mark hamill
Mark Hamill was literally plot armor provided by the demon, she basically admits this in the last episode. if he wasn't there the usher family would have been fucked long ago
>remove madeline
Are you retarded? if you remove madeline the story isn't even the same anymore. she is the one that encouraged Roderick to abandon his moral compass in the first place and started the entire chain of events.
>remove rodericks junkie wife
this one is almost valid, she really only existed to sugar coat the ending and do some last minute grandstanding about using their wealth to fight the opioid epidemic.
>remove rodericks junkie wife
Juno was the most wholesome character in the whole show and the running gag with her being in the will was really funny. Especially when at the end it's revealed that she inherits everything.
Pym is a character who shows how powerful the family is when he repeatedly gets special privileges from the cops. His investigation also works as a way to slowly build the question of whether Verna is a normal human (like another unknown heir killing off the competition) or a real supernatural creature. Not to mention offer plausible explanation early on how the Usher twins have been able to avoid prosecution for decades as well as foreshadow that they’re in fact murderers, because he’s their personal fixer who will do whatever it takes to get the job done.
Madeline is also absolutely crucial to the story, are you fucking stupid? She’s repeatedly shown to be the more sociopathic, ruthless and pragmatic one of the two who influences her brother time and time again to do shit and turn him into being more amoral, she even goes as far as talking him into trying to kill himself with an overdose near the end so that she could avoid her own death.
Juno isn’t as vital to the overall story but she serves a very clear and important purpose as well. Did you ignore the entire part where Roderick marries her simply because she’s able to take such insane high doses of the painkiller? Her very existence is Roderick trying to convince himself that his painkiller drug is actually good and not evil because she’s able to take it like candy. It also shows how, again this is consistently thematic throughout the show, the people marrying to the family are not as morally corrupt as the Ushers themselves are. She is the only one who shows up to just show support Tamerlane’s Goldbug launch, her aunt is there to look for Verna. Similarly Juno wants to become a better person and stop being an addict and uses considerable amount of her inheritance to help others, showing capability to grow beyond their character flaws, unlike anybody else in the family.
>Negroes
That is all I need to know.
>homosexual British gamer runs around with Thor's hammer (after joking about how he got it from Hemsworth) and smashes walls to chase down a godawful CGI cat and then just fucking throws himself off a building like a Looney Tunes sketch
>this is supposed to be scary/intense as indicated by the blaring dramatic music
This is probably the lowest point among all of Flanagan's works for me.
Did they think "Usher" referred to the african-american musician?
no it feels like a knock off rian johnson script and I dont think I can say anything worse about it than that
>knock off rian johnson script
Rian Johnson doesn't have a patent on gay shit. And Flanagan is still better because at least he can produce a cohesive story.
Yes, this show happened the way it does bc critics love Knives Out
Absolutely mogs The Sandman's ESG score
Did you guys know we just don’t spend enough money on food? Like if some people bought less yachts and jets and if Elon didn’t buy twitter the world wouldn’t have poverty?
Cause poverty is caused by capitalism, before capitalism no one ever went hungry or homeless.
Capitalism literally ensures people are left homeless despite constant building of luxury housing most people can’t afford and thousands of apartments left vacant because they’re just investments or way to hide your money.
We overproduce food and then throw a considerable amount of food away because it’s more profitable than making sure there would be no hunger in the world.
And pharmaceutical companies run by people like the Ushers (irl the Sacklers) single handedly have manufactured a giant drug addiction epidemic while profiting from it that is now cause of countless deaths every year. Same way energy companies and tobacco manufacturers have spent decades lying to the world about the negative impact and consequences of their product has on the health and safety of humans and the environment. All because capitalism incentivised them to seek short term profits over what was better for everyone.
Stop being 12. None of this capitalism it’s any economic system.
Walk 200 miles into the wilderness where there is no capitalism, where is the food and house? You won’t starve out there right?
Go to USSR, N Korea, and China, no homeless or hungry people right?
Most people didn’t go hungry through European winters under mercantilism right? No abbos or natives ever been hungry and all have real homes with amenities not huts and tents right?
Europe was bombed to the Stone Age, 1 marshal plan later and it’s the 1st world. Japan only country to be nuked but back to being 1st world. How many marshal plans have gone to Africa? How many wells have been dug for them?
To spite massive inflation food is probably the most subsidized thing in the US. Your food should cost triple at least. It gets thrown out bc of dumb ass regulations that don’t let you drink raw milk from your own cow and stupid tax codes that create losses the way it does. Those regulations and tax codes will exist in any system.
>capitalism is the problem
>also money is the answer for everything
>oh the fucking irony of holding the most capitalistic belief you ever possibly have
>Nooooo capitalism good, invisible hand always correct!!! There is no food unless you’re a capitalist!!!
Lmao
It’s actually money isn’t the answer, it’s morality and virtue.
Children were smarter and more educated before spending 35k/yr per child, society was safer and happier before spending billions on the police state and anti-depressants
Just give money to beneficial thing is low IQ and immature sophistry
>It gets thrown out bc of dumb ass regulations that don’t let you drink raw milk from your own cow
I'd like to see the government try to stop me.
I enjoyed it. It's pretty fun to watch all his degenerate kids die one by one, and in general the acting and writing is pretty solid. the "mystery" if you can even call it that, is way too fucking obvious, you can basically guess what Madeleine and Roderick did by episode 2. and as usual with this writer, he has a couple points where he gets way too obvious with projecting his own personal views into the plot. multiple references to fox news, trump, various other right wing figures. a few too many monologues for my taste, although the lemon monologue was pretty funny.
The dad's voice is Dodge-RAM-tier but it's so slow that 3 minutes feels like 30
Can't stand Flanagan casting anymore. It's like watching school play played by same members of the club
Everyone keeps being gay and that is very distracting, but it's Netflix. It's not as good as Midnight Mass, but it's also somehow better than Midnight Mass. I've enjoyed all of these Mike Flannagan shows for the most part, but their problem tends to be that they're overly long and end up the pacing always bottoms out toward the middle of the series. This one fixes that problem by making each episode relatively episodic and focusing on a single character's death/Poe short story. It was a clever way to go about it gives you a reason to watch each episode without the narrative screeching to a halt for two or three episodes.
My chief complaint overall is that Netflix is literally so woke that it's extremely distracting and does not feel true to life. Not every single person on earth is gay. I generally don't even care about this kind of thing but it's like they go out of their way to cram it into every episode and character interaction. In a cast of like 50 named characters, two of them are straight. Everyone else is some kind LGBTQXYZ
I counted my family and got to 67 people before there is 1 lesbian which is probably by choice so not even a full gay.
It hurts to see this is how Edgar Allan Pie’s legacy is being treated. Legitimately a black pill
I. Want. To. Go. Back. So. Fucking. Bad.
no.
>Poe just copied E.T.A. Hoffmann
>Flannagan just uses the name of the story to make his own gay story
>Netflix greenlights it
Not even gonna watch the trailer for this.
also, a Trump one, Carla says about a client of hers standing in the middle of Manhattan killing someone.
Afraid not. He peaked with Midnight Mass.
>watch one episode of a tv show
>get le heckin' offended
you're literally a hasidic israelite without any of the conviction
>the only white guy son is a bumbling retard and the most comically evil out of all them and Gugino, who has been speaking in flowery poetic bullshit to everyone else up to that point, says directly to him "you're a piece of shit, I'm going to directly intervene just this one time to make sure you suffer"
Now I normally don't give a shit about this kind of stuff, but I can't help but feel there was a teensy bit of agenda here.