We make cape comics more accessible

How would you make DC/Marvel more accessible to a larger audience?

My idea (which you’re free to poke holes into since I’m no expert) is:

>mainline of all ages comics with every issue a self contained story. No more than 5 to 10 comics series in the same shared universe, but the status quo has to remain more or less the same always. The big inspiration is the DCAU
>adult and Elseworlds lines in which every team gets to make their own series in their own reality, shake up or completely change the status quo, setting, and concept to fit their story and experiment and make something more free to explore than the mainline

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  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Axe all titles and just focus on the movies.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Can the movies too. Just end it already. That's the only way to save whatever dignity is has left.

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You don't. Just move on to something else if you can't keep up with the BS.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      But from the perspective of the company, if casual readers get tired and leave, and the invested fanboys who put up with the mess keep getting older and dying, eventually there won’t be anyone. So it’s in their best interest to make things more accessible

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >But from the perspective of the company,
        It's their problem, tbh. 🙂

  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Kill all current characters off. Make new comics.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      this is how we got in this shit in the first place.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        What are you talking about? Spider-Man (and the Spider-Folks) and Batman (and the Batfolks) are still running around in all the comics.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          He means they already erased universes to supposedly start over.

          Crucially though, all they did was revamp past concepts again, or start a new universe with plenty of stuff from the previous one already present like Batman already having multiple robins.

          I’d be curious to see a full reboot with a ban on any previous concept. Like reboot the DC univers with the core origin story updated for everyone, and the obligation to not use the usual secondary cast and villains.

          I’m seeing marvel launch a new ultimate world, but tchalla is already set to date Storm, anf Spider-Man is already fighting the green goblin.

          And now they even invented canon events as a way to justify why characters tend to go through the same things from version to version, but I’d say it betrays an inability to move past their bloated history because «it’s iconic».

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Marvel Now and the failed 5G attempt.

            I guess I have to spell it out: kill the universes, the characters and any legacies.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Or you could just..make comics outside of the universes and market those without having to build them on razed ground or deal with any backlash or baggage.
              I get that you're trolling because you have a chip on your shoulder about capeshit, but this whole idea would be like killing off James Bond or Godzilla and following unrelated stories in their universe afterwords.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                If you keep the characters, you keep the baggage. It doesn't matter if you pluck them from their home universe. You don't seem to realize how fricked it gets when you've been using a character for 60+ years. Movies are not comics.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                A company can have separate publishing houses.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Marvel Now and the failed 5G attempt.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Why did they fail btw?

            Was it just an inability to make the new legacies interesting?

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Because no one wants legacies or to "kill off" characters they liked for the most part. It's an inorganic way to push new characters.
              You can make new product and maintain old characters. DC had a fruitful period in the late 80's/90's with Vertigo, creating a bunch of non-superhero titles and characters while also maintaining their superhero lines.
              The fact that you're so clueless about this tells me you're not familiar with comics at all.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Way I see it, you need legacies to TEMPORARILY "kill off" the old characters to get that publicity boost ingrained into the audience for a while, and then after a while the legacies can give back their identity back to the old characters.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Isn’t that exactly what happened?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                No one wants that, get it through your skull. If you want new characters, don't tie them to superheroes or legacies. We're full of them as is and the few people under 25 who get into comics are still preferring 90's era legacies to modern ones.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                No one wants that, get it through your skull. If you want new characters, don't tie them to superheroes or legacies. We're full of them as is and the few people under 25 who get into comics are still preferring 90's era legacies to modern ones.

                Ted Kord and Jaime Reyes are the best legacies because they're substantially different from their predecessors. more legacies should be like that instead of "the same hero again except he has a new name and maybe a slightly different personality".

  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Just make them cool.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      unironically this, big 2 comics are just lame, awful fight scenes, awful villain plans and motivations and constant "outragebait" twists that always hurt sales in the long run

  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Bring back romance comics in the vein of "Mary Jane Loves Spider-Man". Some shit like "Adventures of Lois Lane & Clark" or "Harley & Ivy's Playdates" or some other sappy shit like that.

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    "nothing is canon, everything is fanfic."

    that should be their guiding principle, do whatever and ignore the rules

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This tbh. Canon's a fricking mess with too many inconsistencies to bother keeping track.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Anyone with common sense knows there isn't a canon.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Anyone with common sense knows there isn't a canon.

        it really sucks when companies are so anal about "canon" stuff for their properties that they kill off their popular/profitable non-canon properties.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Canon trope is just to lure nerds into buying their trash. Don't fall for it.

  7. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    If your industry is failing then you don’t pigeon hole your merchandise to be only sold in one exceedingly rare type of store.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Even in big stores where people can buy trades, the cape comics presence is shrinking. It’s not just access it’s also marketing and streamlining things enough that people can see a direct adaptation of a thing and come buy the book.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Even in big stores where people can buy trades, the cape comics presence is shrinking. It’s not just access it’s also marketing and streamlining things enough that people can see a direct adaptation of a thing and come buy the book.

      went to a barnes and noble, and the manga section was 10 times bigger than the comics section.

      what a sad world

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        If your industry is failing then you don’t pigeon hole your merchandise to be only sold in one exceedingly rare type of store.

        https://i.imgur.com/CH8fFNM.jpg

        How would you make DC/Marvel more accessible to a larger audience?

        My idea (which you’re free to poke holes into since I’m no expert) is:

        >mainline of all ages comics with every issue a self contained story. No more than 5 to 10 comics series in the same shared universe, but the status quo has to remain more or less the same always. The big inspiration is the DCAU
        >adult and Elseworlds lines in which every team gets to make their own series in their own reality, shake up or completely change the status quo, setting, and concept to fit their story and experiment and make something more free to explore than the mainline

        One day an entrepreneur with some cash to burn will invest in the comic industry using what he saw in the manga industry and his own idea and probably change it forever for the better.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Manga also demands more shelf presenance because so many series that get brought over end up at least 5 volumes and they maintain in constant print. The big shonen titles alone will command permanent real estate. Just having sequential orders to collect them in goes a long way. Many Marvel/DC tpbs only see one print run and there's no guide how to get into most of them.

        [...]
        [...]
        One day an entrepreneur with some cash to burn will invest in the comic industry using what he saw in the manga industry and his own idea and probably change it forever for the better.

        scholastic already does close to that, they just have a limited scope of what they do. But they have the money and the audience to make a bigger reach than marvel or DC. Major book publishers getting into comics and funding series would go a long way. When we've gotten individual entrepreneurs with stuff like Crossgen it tends to fizzle out quickly because bookstores go by big publishing companies.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >and there's no guide how to get into most of them.
          the guide is "read whatever interests you". the only time you'll need to start from "the beginning" is if you want to read an entire run and even then it's as simple as starting with issue #1 and reading them in numerical order.
          this "ohhh where do i starrrt" bullshit is perpetuated by morons who haven't made any attempt to get into comics.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It's a nice sentiment, but in reality
            Manga succeeds because once you get volume 1, you know what to buy next conveniently, and having these massive collections means bookstores know what to order.
            DC got thousands of copies of DKR and Arkham Asylum in bookstores since the 80's Made millions of dollars to the point both their writers became millionaires, still in print to this day. But how many of those readers picked up comics consistently after?

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >Manga succeeds because once you get volume 1, you know what to buy next conveniently
              just like with comics

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                No...no it doesn't work like that

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                it does work like that. you read the issues, or volumes, in numerical order.

                yeah ones done by scholastic and companies outside the big two.

                and also big two ones.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                And then you get crossovers, Storylines ending in another book, and whatever else.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Storylines ending in another book
                you'll be told what issue to read to see the end of the story
                really proving my point about how these complaints come from people who don't read comics

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Yeah and then you have to track it down, assuming it’s accessible anywhere.

                It’s counterintuitive, annoying, and most people rightfully cant be bothered to do homework and detective work to figure out how to finish what should be light entertainment

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Yeah and then you have to track it down, assuming it’s accessible anywhere.
                it's sad that we've taken this long to get to the actual problem because assclowns like you are too fixated on "oh noes where do i start" because, like i said, you've never even tried to read comics.
                i would love to talk about making comics more accessible because i do think it's a major problem, but your opinions are worth less than the pixels the pixels that display them.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Aaand this is why kids read manga now

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Surprisingly it's not. It's because comics industry listened to stupid people like

                Yeah and then you have to track it down, assuming it’s accessible anywhere.

                It’s counterintuitive, annoying, and most people rightfully cant be bothered to do homework and detective work to figure out how to finish what should be light entertainment

                without thinking and made even dumber reader-unfriendly decisions.
                >Frick continuity. Let's reset characters for the new readers
                Now you have flanderized characters with less consistency than even the fricking 90s
                >We need new #1s constantly because no one wants to read issue #520
                Now you have a shitload of #1s and the new readers are even more confused

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                yeah ones done by scholastic and companies outside the big two.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Anon. There’s fifty #1s per character now. ASM was rebooted twice with #1s within two years.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >scholastic already does close to that,
          They don't have the proper branding either.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Even in big stores where people can buy trades, the cape comics presence is shrinking. It’s not just access it’s also marketing and streamlining things enough that people can see a direct adaptation of a thing and come buy the book.

      Comic shops came into existence because the newsstand was dying. Pretty much every book going to comic shops over newstands got a boost because newstand distribution was notoriously spotty. And they've been available online and at bookstores for decades.

  8. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Nobody gives a shit about your precious 22 page picture books for $5.99.

    DC and Marvel generate more money on t-shirts than they do your idiotic picture books. They make more money with merchandise than you the whole of there comic industries have ever produced in sales. They do not care and they will never care. You'll buy the toys, the t-shirts, the movies, the shows, etc.

    Comic books don't matter. And they never will. They've told the same Batman story repeatedly and nobody has batted an eye.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >They've told the same Batman story repeatedly and nobody has batted an eye.

      But have the Joker stories ever been clowned on?

  9. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    online archives for issues no longer on the shelves

  10. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Fluff, fluff and more fluff. Say what you guys want about WFA, but it's doing numbers, especially with younger folks

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Not saying it doesn't do better despite being a different kind of mediocre, you forgot to mention that it's free.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Free access means they get money elsewhere.

        Advertisers? If so, they often come with demands and that doesn’t impact the work very well usually.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Free, with the option to buy, along with tpbs that sell enough to stay in print.
        I think a key to it is that it’s character relationship /interaction driven. Yeah it’s fluff mostly, but making these characters interesting and bounce off each other is more engaging than trying to sell the billionth crossover where EVERYTHING CHANGES, YOU MUST READ ALL 200 ISSUES

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Boring fluff only works at attracting the tumblr audience.
      If you want anything more than that your fluff needs to be in addition to something else, like good action, or decent comedy, or filling some niche with a specific audience beyond the tumblr types.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Boring fluff only works at attracting the tumblr audience.
        boomer anon tumblr's been irrelevant for 6 years now. fluff romance webtoons get published and sold in Wal-marts now. I know grown women who are otherwise normies but read a bunch of romance and fluff webtoons.
        And WFA is mostly comedy anyway.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >fluff romance webtoons get published and sold in Wal-marts now.
          The only webtoons I see in Walmart are the Korean ones.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >published korean webtoons

            how the frick does that work? Webtoon format is geared towards reading it on your phone on your way to work on the subway.
            you just keep scrolling down with your thumb.
            The paneling must be awkward for a physical book medium.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            that doesn't change the point does it? They're also largely romance fluff. That said I see them from European and American creators as well.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >They're also largely romance fluff.
              No, not really, most of the Korean webtoons I see in places like Walmart are action or drama, and the romance stuff is usually super smutty instead of having tons of fluff.
              Stuff like Solo Leveling, Villains are Destined to Die, 7fates, etc. etc. is what tends to show up the most.
              I think the only romance fluff webtoon I've seen consistently is Lore Olympus, if that even counts as fluff.

  11. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Are direct market shops obsolete? Seems a rather limited business model.

    I often wonder if things shouldn’t be published as trades to begin with. Sold in bookstores and such. Or if we keep floppies, we drop the price and quality of the paper and sell them in big stores and various other places.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Getting rid of floppies/monthly releases is like getting rid of chapter releases of manga in favor of just releasing them as volumes. There's no reason to sit on pages as they accumulate for 2 tpb releases a year. Floppies cost about the same to print proportionally as the tpbs, and regular releases are what keeps discussion and interest alive. Just look at how dead discussion on European albums tends to be because so many of them are yearly or biyearly releases, if that.
      And the floppies make more than the tpbs a lot of the time anyway. It shouldn't make any sense as a model because tpbs have been sold in bookssotrs for over 30 years, yet somehow outside of a select few evergreen trades they still sell more in direct market shops than in national chain stores.
      Making cheaper floppies is a good idea but there's a base level of how cheap we can charge for print in general in the western world. Manga benefits from the cheap cost of living and printing in Japan meaning the whole model is far lower cost than it is in America, where costs bump up the prices considerable.
      Just to put it into perspective- a WSJ is like 250 yen/$2 USD, for all original content. A magazine in America, which can largely be nothing but fluff pieces made by college grads, is like $10 these days. And those have wider circulation than comics.

  12. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Make comics fun, cheap, and accessible. The big two had no problem doing this month in and month out for like seven decades.

  13. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >The big inspiration is the DCAU
    The DCAU ended 20 years ago and people saying we need to make DC media as a whole more like that need to move on, and are just as bad as guys like Waid and Morrison and their obsession with the Silver Age.

  14. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Step 1: stop printing and publishing floppies entirely, announce a switch to digital/infinite canvas/webtoons, with the option to then print these stories in trades/omnibuses
    Step 2: relaunch both universes and character origins, Ultimate-style
    Step 3: limit the number of ongoing series to 8-10 max. For DC it should be Batman, Superman, WW, Green Lantern, Flash, Aquaman, JLA, Teen Titans, maybe LOSH and an anthology/Elseworlds comic where young writers and artists are given complete creative freedom to do whatever they want. For Marvel - Spidey, X-Men, Avengers, FF, GotG, Daredevil, Wolverine, Dr. Strange, Captain Marvel and an anthology/team-up/What If series, again, with young talent given creative freedom to do whatever they want.
    Step 4: ¡no "guided view" bullshit, only scrolling/webtoon format!
    Step 5: (re)print only stories that have been favorably received by the audience
    Step 6: pander to your audience and show respect to it - no teenager wants to read comics about 30+ y.o. Peter Parker, a depressed loner, so either make him a permanently ~16 y.o. "cool nerd" or just replace him with Miles already, ffs. No grown man wants to read about Bruce Wayne being dumped/cucked by every woman he's ever had feelings for, so don't do that shit. No young adult woman wants to read about WW or Cap Marvel being raped with tentacles by some villainous alien creature, so instead write realistic stories about these characters that are geared towards women.
    That's it, I guess. These 6 steps will fix most of the issues.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >step 6
      Fricking this. Contrary to what these writers think, people are tired of constant misery porn

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >step 6

      you don't think teens or adults read depressing/angsty manga?

  15. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You can't.
    These comics soley exist to keep the trademark.
    Quality and story be damned. Parent companies want the merch. They don't give a shit about "canon." Otherwise why release movies that are drastically different from them?

  16. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Stop making every character gay or black.

    Stop making White Male characters look weak and incompetent that is shit on by everyone (Peter Parker especially).

    Boom. Industry saved.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      NO

      I want a comic about a sissy white boi who fights crime with the power of BBC.

  17. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Go back to how they were written for most of their history: simple episodic story telling. Combined with tight editorial limits and creative scripts, it should be right as rain.

  18. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    1. Pare down the line substantially. No more than 12 comics per month and 1 book per character. This makes every title more essential and your brand less diluted
    2. Tell good stories in self contained runs. Make it clear to readers that they can jump in at #1 with any new series. When the story/run ends, end the series and start with a new #1. This could be a long story and there could be smaller arcs within the larger storyline, but the reader knows it will have a beginning, middle and ending.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      i dunno, that sounds like leaving quite a bit of money on the table, not to mention quite a few less employed folks in the industry.

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