I tried watching it for a couple seasons back in its heyday and it just didn't click. Honestly I can't even remember much of it. It was so forgettable, I can't even remember what circumstances compelled me to watch past the first season.
Forgettable I think is the best word. I enjoyed it for several seasons but looking back I barely remember it
I don’t think there’s as much substance as it appears at first
Does it get better?
Season 1 gave me heavy mad men vibes with shitty jokes sparkled in, S2 was worse but still okay and S3 is disappointing so far, the only upside was underwater no dialogue episode.
I'll probably finish this S3 and say goodbye to the show, unless later seasons are worth it for at least some creative fun like underwater episode, gimmick probably wasn't worth enitre runtime of it, but I still liked it
It's just a soap opera but a horse guy says the words.
You get the strong feeling that the creators find their stupid little puns and jokes to be the raison d'être for all of the rest... and it shows.
The puns and animation are a hook to draw in fence sitters. If it were a live action show just called Bob Jackson and was about Bob Jackson the 90s sitcom star it wouldn’t be nearly as popular despite having the exact same substance. Hence the meme
I don't understand why some people hold it in high regard.
it's not well animated, doesn't have an interesting style either. the underwater episode might be the one exception to this.
it doesn't succeed as a comedy, since it's not funny. As a drama, it's not compelling. it's not saying anything interesting about any of the characters or addiction or self-sabotage or living in the past or anything else.
Are these just people who've never read a non-Harry Potter book and never watched a drama movie?
I'm sorry I just posted but people like this, have they lost their ability to enjoy life at all? Like everything is a problem has to be hard on the mind.
I'll have to stand up for the show. It does a great job of analyzing the modern world around us and personal relationships. I'll admit it's kind of depressing. You can't just view it at surface level like what a rich cry baby. Him not worrying about money for the most part is kind of refreshing vs the most of life explored elsewhere is hurrdurr I can't pay the rent. It's not even about him or Hollywood a lot of the time. I like how they deal with the news and interviews and all that. Lots of laughs mixed in.
For those part way I recommend continuing. It starts to get more trippy and explore other animation styles and tropes.
You genuinely have to know what it's like to be a drug addict among those close around you (those who do it with you and want you to stop) to get the show's emotional beats. They are incredibly well portrayed.
Yeah, that typo (assuming it is one) makes the post incomprehensible.
Do you have to be, or have been, an addict or just be close to one? I've known plenty of addicts and the show doesn't particularly hit any emotional beats to me
He’s saying you need to be self-destructive and have a large group of social contacts who want you to stop being self-destructive, but can’t really say or do anything to help.
Which is bullshit, of course. There really isn’t that much going on. It’s just endless histrionic “woe is me” nonsense. Which means he’s really saying something like “you need to have pretended to be depressed/addicted for attention to get the show.”
an awful lot of substance abuse stems from past/present isolation and by definition is a cry for attention.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Thanks for helping my argument.
3 months ago
Anonymous
i don't think think it's a good idea to isolate billions of people but we'll agree to disagree
3 months ago
Anonymous
The idea that even a noteworthy percentage of addiction or self-destruction is motivated by attention seeking is absurd.
3 months ago
Anonymous
I mean there's an argument to be made that a lot of the abuse Bojack did was for attention, to relive his idea of what's "cool" and distract from his life falling apart. They make it a point to address that a lot in the series. But the bulk of it was him genuinely being caught up in addiction and using at the most inappropriate times just for his enjoyment.
3 months ago
Anonymous
It’s funny how fans of the show seem to have watched a completely different show than anyone else.
what typo? functional "low level" addiction that cycles through periods of mania and destruction is very common and the show does depict it well vs most that go for trainspotting levels of junkieness to get the point across to a public whos idea of drug use and alcoholism is having a joint at a party once a year and thinking two bottles of wine on a wednesday night is excessive.
[...] >There really isn’t that much going on.
His closest friend dies to an overdose when they both relapse. He strangles his co-star because of how fricked his head is. The last season centers around him going to rehab. There's plenty that goes on in relation to all of that. I'm not saying it's the best show to do it and it sacrifices a lot of merit to keep up the cartoon tone, but I really haven't seen such a portrayal of how drug abuse affects people done so accurately since Breaking Bad.
>You genuinely have to know what it's like to be a drug addict among those close around you
That is in no way a proper phrasing of that idea, but it is mighty close to "You genuinely have to know what it's like to have a drug addict among those close to you"
3 months ago
Anonymous
Good morning sir
3 months ago
Anonymous
You're changing the meaning of that statement entirely. I don't think you know how words work.
He’s saying you need to be self-destructive and have a large group of social contacts who want you to stop being self-destructive, but can’t really say or do anything to help.
Which is bullshit, of course. There really isn’t that much going on. It’s just endless histrionic “woe is me” nonsense. Which means he’s really saying something like “you need to have pretended to be depressed/addicted for attention to get the show.”
>There really isn’t that much going on.
His closest friend dies to an overdose when they both relapse. He strangles his co-star because of how fricked his head is. The last season centers around him going to rehab. There's plenty that goes on in relation to all of that. I'm not saying it's the best show to do it and it sacrifices a lot of merit to keep up the cartoon tone, but I really haven't seen such a portrayal of how drug abuse affects people done so accurately since Breaking Bad.
So you’re just further hammering home the idea that to “get” bojack horseman, you need to have engaged in self-destructive behavior, for attention, for years of your life.
You genuinely have to know what it's like to be a drug addict among those close around you (those who do it with you and want you to stop) to get the show's emotional beats. They are incredibly well portrayed.
the depression episode was good. the rest of the show could have been written about a lowly warehouse wagie and it would have hit far closer to home for many more people. "rich c**t struggling with existentialism" is a boring trope.
It's good for the first few seasons, but it overstays its welcome and unfortunately also gets really quite far up its own ass in the process.
I appreciate that the show wants to make a point about how "depression/self-abuse is a cycle," but when every season follows the same basic beats of >Bojack doing well >Bojack fricks up for whatever reason >Bojack fricks over his career and/or irreversibly ruins a friendship >start over again next season
it loses its power and, more importantly, doesn't make for compelling television by the end.
There's still enough in it to maybe make a full watchthrough worthwhile at least once. The main cast performances are consistently great all around, though Will Arnett uses his deep, curt 'sad mode' voice so much to the point where I just find it funny to think about now. And certainly the fact that each season attempted one unconventional, high kino episode towards the end and nailed it almost every time is absolutely commendable. But I've no real desire to rewatch the show and, though I enjoyed it as it came out, I really don't think it's that great in retrospect.
>and confuses going deeper up its own ass for depth.
Well it's depth in a way.
Yeah you're right that it's already a little bit pretentious at the start, but imo it was balanced out with a lot more comedy (which they kind of lost sight of as the show went on) and the fact that, again, the show's self-flagellating tone and repetitive story beats hadn't overstayed their welcome yet.
Nothing really makes it stand out.
Out of all the shows about similar topics, this handles it in a particularly hamfisted way.
Relegated to a world where mediocrity is king, it does nothing special
Most people would find it cringy and dull.
Almost every opportunity it has to do something amazing is lost due to poor writing
Long takes and boring drivel conversation drag it down.
Worst of all, it could just as easily have been a normal comedy show with people.
Overall, it's a boring setting with animals for the sake of animals.
Relationships between animals are jokes at best and ignored at worst.
Due to this, the show only occasionally utilizes its setting to comedy.
So many opportunities lost.
Better shows have came and went.
Ultimately, Duckman, Daria, and Archer are better, more accurate representations of narcissism and its relation to depression
There are also other shows, live action, that do it better, including Always Sunny and Arrested Development
At most, Bojack serves as a stark reminder to the quality of today's TV: dull and overrated due to a lack of quality productions
Hell, we've been waiting for truly good shows for years.
Outliers exist, but we've been stuck with high production values but low writing values.
Realizing this, we suffer the machinations of rich Hollywood liberals who think their woes are worse.
So many opportunities to tell good stories lost to who knows who and who sucks up to who
Everything we watch has this tinge of nepotism
Generation after generation, TV has gotten worse.
Under the umbrella of an industry trying to cut costs everywhere but special effects, our shows are made for the dispassioned millenial or the dopamined zoomer.
You fall into one of those two categories, and Bojack Horseman was made to satiate both of categories, making it pointedly awful to anyone who doesn't align with those two groups.
It either should have ended one episode sooner or back during the teacher arc when he found peace. They pussied out and chose an unsatisfying middle ground.
It's a fantastic show and the ultimate pla filter. Everyone here is obsessed with repeating 'the Cinemaphile opinion' to show how much they are not reddit/trannies/boogeyman-of-the-week, which is usually, for any given show, "Season X was the last good one". Seeing the entire show as one entity to be judged without breaking it down to seasons is too high for the average midwit here. There are, of course, examples where you need to cut off a show after a season and see it as complete and everything after that as fan fiction. House of cards is one of rhe most notable recent examples. Also as someone already pointed out, it hits too close to home, for all the self-destructive behaviour they show on a daily basis. That in combination with what anons see as 'reddit aesthetics', 'reddit humor' or 'lefty X' because it's set in california filters most.
yeah irl addicts never relapse, you autists are so out of touch it's crazy
>Let's make a show about a guy sitting alone in a cubicle, trying to procrastinate as much as possible while doing just enough work to avoid getting fired. That should make for compelling television, since it's a realistic depiction of an office worker.
Honestly should have ended like 1 season earlier. It started to run it's course by the end. Characters started to become exaggerated versions of themselves. Also, that beanie guy is the worst fricking character in the show. Apart from that, I enjoyed it overall.
>that episode where diane goes back to vietnam to discover her "roots" >despite being born in america and not engaging with vietnamese culture in any way >doesn't even know the language
What an absolute waste of an hour.
Entire episode is just >Hey guys did you know Diane is a dumb moronic hypocrite? >50th episode of the show, as if we didn't know that from the 1st.
How come no one ever mentions Dianes weight gain? Being obese is one of the worst things that could possibly happen to you, yet the characters just let her pig out
Gay shit for sadsack millennials. I bet money every person that enjoys this show sucks.
I tried watching it for a couple seasons back in its heyday and it just didn't click. Honestly I can't even remember much of it. It was so forgettable, I can't even remember what circumstances compelled me to watch past the first season.
Forgettable I think is the best word. I enjoyed it for several seasons but looking back I barely remember it
I don’t think there’s as much substance as it appears at first
Does it get better?
Season 1 gave me heavy mad men vibes with shitty jokes sparkled in, S2 was worse but still okay and S3 is disappointing so far, the only upside was underwater no dialogue episode.
I'll probably finish this S3 and say goodbye to the show, unless later seasons are worth it for at least some creative fun like underwater episode, gimmick probably wasn't worth enitre runtime of it, but I still liked it
It's just a soap opera but a horse guy says the words.
You get the strong feeling that the creators find their stupid little puns and jokes to be the raison d'être for all of the rest... and it shows.
The puns and animation are a hook to draw in fence sitters. If it were a live action show just called Bob Jackson and was about Bob Jackson the 90s sitcom star it wouldn’t be nearly as popular despite having the exact same substance. Hence the meme
It gets worse
It's good, drags at parts but overall does what it makes out to do well.
Most anons hate it because it hits close to home for them.
>Most anons hate it because it hits close to home for them.
Yeah most anons are washed-up formerly famous people. Big brain on you.
I still think he had no real reason to be depressed.
Depression is something that whiny gays like to put in a show as an excuse for a character to be a moronic whiny homosexual.
Yeah that's all I meant, you sound snarky and self loathing btw, seems to fit the thread theme quite well :^)
What if a cartoon but depressing and up its own ass
It appeals to narcissists who get depressed because the world doesn’t appreciate their actions enough :^(
>I’M RICH AND MY LIFE IS HARD! 🙁
The show.
you sound poor and bitter
I don't understand why some people hold it in high regard.
it's not well animated, doesn't have an interesting style either. the underwater episode might be the one exception to this.
it doesn't succeed as a comedy, since it's not funny. As a drama, it's not compelling. it's not saying anything interesting about any of the characters or addiction or self-sabotage or living in the past or anything else.
Are these just people who've never read a non-Harry Potter book and never watched a drama movie?
never watched it, but why is he a horse anyway? is it treated like an oddity, directly explained or is it just never addressed ?
A bunch of characters are animal people. It’s just used as way to differentiate characters with the occasional “joke” about how the animals behave.
israeli misery porn.
I'm sorry I just posted but people like this, have they lost their ability to enjoy life at all? Like everything is a problem has to be hard on the mind.
I'll have to stand up for the show. It does a great job of analyzing the modern world around us and personal relationships. I'll admit it's kind of depressing. You can't just view it at surface level like what a rich cry baby. Him not worrying about money for the most part is kind of refreshing vs the most of life explored elsewhere is hurrdurr I can't pay the rent. It's not even about him or Hollywood a lot of the time. I like how they deal with the news and interviews and all that. Lots of laughs mixed in.
For those part way I recommend continuing. It starts to get more trippy and explore other animation styles and tropes.
>It does a great job of analyzing the modern world around us and personal relationships.
Please provide a single example
see
Yeah, that typo (assuming it is one) makes the post incomprehensible.
Do you have to be, or have been, an addict or just be close to one? I've known plenty of addicts and the show doesn't particularly hit any emotional beats to me
He’s saying you need to be self-destructive and have a large group of social contacts who want you to stop being self-destructive, but can’t really say or do anything to help.
Which is bullshit, of course. There really isn’t that much going on. It’s just endless histrionic “woe is me” nonsense. Which means he’s really saying something like “you need to have pretended to be depressed/addicted for attention to get the show.”
an awful lot of substance abuse stems from past/present isolation and by definition is a cry for attention.
Thanks for helping my argument.
i don't think think it's a good idea to isolate billions of people but we'll agree to disagree
The idea that even a noteworthy percentage of addiction or self-destruction is motivated by attention seeking is absurd.
I mean there's an argument to be made that a lot of the abuse Bojack did was for attention, to relive his idea of what's "cool" and distract from his life falling apart. They make it a point to address that a lot in the series. But the bulk of it was him genuinely being caught up in addiction and using at the most inappropriate times just for his enjoyment.
It’s funny how fans of the show seem to have watched a completely different show than anyone else.
what typo? functional "low level" addiction that cycles through periods of mania and destruction is very common and the show does depict it well vs most that go for trainspotting levels of junkieness to get the point across to a public whos idea of drug use and alcoholism is having a joint at a party once a year and thinking two bottles of wine on a wednesday night is excessive.
>what typo?
>You genuinely have to know what it's like to be a drug addict among those close around you
That is in no way a proper phrasing of that idea, but it is mighty close to "You genuinely have to know what it's like to have a drug addict among those close to you"
Good morning sir
You're changing the meaning of that statement entirely. I don't think you know how words work.
I don't think you know how grammar works
C'est nuit, fieu
Your reading comprehension sucks.
>There really isn’t that much going on.
His closest friend dies to an overdose when they both relapse. He strangles his co-star because of how fricked his head is. The last season centers around him going to rehab. There's plenty that goes on in relation to all of that. I'm not saying it's the best show to do it and it sacrifices a lot of merit to keep up the cartoon tone, but I really haven't seen such a portrayal of how drug abuse affects people done so accurately since Breaking Bad.
So you’re just further hammering home the idea that to “get” bojack horseman, you need to have engaged in self-destructive behavior, for attention, for years of your life.
>for attention
For fun.
Attention = fun, for normies
I liked the theme song.
You genuinely have to know what it's like to be a drug addict among those close around you (those who do it with you and want you to stop) to get the show's emotional beats. They are incredibly well portrayed.
>show with anamorphic animals
Sure, I can get into
>normal humans still exist
Utter moronation
the depression episode was good. the rest of the show could have been written about a lowly warehouse wagie and it would have hit far closer to home for many more people. "rich c**t struggling with existentialism" is a boring trope.
It's good for the first few seasons, but it overstays its welcome and unfortunately also gets really quite far up its own ass in the process.
I appreciate that the show wants to make a point about how "depression/self-abuse is a cycle," but when every season follows the same basic beats of
>Bojack doing well
>Bojack fricks up for whatever reason
>Bojack fricks over his career and/or irreversibly ruins a friendship
>start over again next season
it loses its power and, more importantly, doesn't make for compelling television by the end.
There's still enough in it to maybe make a full watchthrough worthwhile at least once. The main cast performances are consistently great all around, though Will Arnett uses his deep, curt 'sad mode' voice so much to the point where I just find it funny to think about now. And certainly the fact that each season attempted one unconventional, high kino episode towards the end and nailed it almost every time is absolutely commendable. But I've no real desire to rewatch the show and, though I enjoyed it as it came out, I really don't think it's that great in retrospect.
More like it starts up it’s own ass and confuses going deeper up its own ass for depth.
>and confuses going deeper up its own ass for depth.
Well it's depth in a way.
Yeah you're right that it's already a little bit pretentious at the start, but imo it was balanced out with a lot more comedy (which they kind of lost sight of as the show went on) and the fact that, again, the show's self-flagellating tone and repetitive story beats hadn't overstayed their welcome yet.
NORMAL
Nothing really makes it stand out.
Out of all the shows about similar topics, this handles it in a particularly hamfisted way.
Relegated to a world where mediocrity is king, it does nothing special
Most people would find it cringy and dull.
Almost every opportunity it has to do something amazing is lost due to poor writing
Long takes and boring drivel conversation drag it down.
Worst of all, it could just as easily have been a normal comedy show with people.
Overall, it's a boring setting with animals for the sake of animals.
Relationships between animals are jokes at best and ignored at worst.
Due to this, the show only occasionally utilizes its setting to comedy.
So many opportunities lost.
Better shows have came and went.
Ultimately, Duckman, Daria, and Archer are better, more accurate representations of narcissism and its relation to depression
There are also other shows, live action, that do it better, including Always Sunny and Arrested Development
At most, Bojack serves as a stark reminder to the quality of today's TV: dull and overrated due to a lack of quality productions
Hell, we've been waiting for truly good shows for years.
Outliers exist, but we've been stuck with high production values but low writing values.
Realizing this, we suffer the machinations of rich Hollywood liberals who think their woes are worse.
So many opportunities to tell good stories lost to who knows who and who sucks up to who
Everything we watch has this tinge of nepotism
Generation after generation, TV has gotten worse.
Under the umbrella of an industry trying to cut costs everywhere but special effects, our shows are made for the dispassioned millenial or the dopamined zoomer.
You fall into one of those two categories, and Bojack Horseman was made to satiate both of categories, making it pointedly awful to anyone who doesn't align with those two groups.
Dispassioned millennial here, it’s shit
It either should have ended one episode sooner or back during the teacher arc when he found peace. They pussied out and chose an unsatisfying middle ground.
It got bad around the last 3 seasons, apparently because they were mindbroken Harvey Weinstein liked an episode
>last line of the series isn't "hey aren't you the horse from horsin around"
The wacky comedy bits were actually pretty good, like Randy and the tongue twisters
I quite liked it in several ways when I watched, maybe I'll watch it again, and I won't elaborate
It's a fantastic show and the ultimate pla filter. Everyone here is obsessed with repeating 'the Cinemaphile opinion' to show how much they are not reddit/trannies/boogeyman-of-the-week, which is usually, for any given show, "Season X was the last good one". Seeing the entire show as one entity to be judged without breaking it down to seasons is too high for the average midwit here. There are, of course, examples where you need to cut off a show after a season and see it as complete and everything after that as fan fiction. House of cards is one of rhe most notable recent examples. Also as someone already pointed out, it hits too close to home, for all the self-destructive behaviour they show on a daily basis. That in combination with what anons see as 'reddit aesthetics', 'reddit humor' or 'lefty X' because it's set in california filters most.
Anon it’s a show for narcissists who think depression is “everything isn’t going my way”
Who ever claimed otherwise? He's an absolute narcissist. How does that invalidate anything i said?
Reddit
>bojack finally goes to rehab
>it's hard but he does well and is sober
>OH ACTUALLY HE LEAVES AND STARTS DRINKING BECAUSE UHHHH
Yeah, you're right, when has that ever happened? Addicts being addicted
It's clear the writers didn't want Bojack to succeed because he heckin ruined lives, that's why the college arc was so bad too
>Let's make a show about a guy sitting alone in a cubicle, trying to procrastinate as much as possible while doing just enough work to avoid getting fired. That should make for compelling television, since it's a realistic depiction of an office worker.
Why are you describing The Office?
yeah irl addicts never relapse, you autists are so out of touch it's crazy
yes?
Honestly should have ended like 1 season earlier. It started to run it's course by the end. Characters started to become exaggerated versions of themselves. Also, that beanie guy is the worst fricking character in the show. Apart from that, I enjoyed it overall.
I found every woman in this show to be utterly unlikeable and basically come across as some idealised self-insert for a female writer.
>that episode where diane goes back to vietnam to discover her "roots"
>despite being born in america and not engaging with vietnamese culture in any way
>doesn't even know the language
What an absolute waste of an hour.
Entire episode is just
>Hey guys did you know Diane is a dumb moronic hypocrite?
>50th episode of the show, as if we didn't know that from the 1st.
How come no one ever mentions Dianes weight gain? Being obese is one of the worst things that could possibly happen to you, yet the characters just let her pig out
First two seasons were alright but it got so far up its own ass that I refuse to finish it.