What is your most hated writing meme that people often mistaken for good writing? >sympathetic villain

What is your most hated writing meme that people often mistaken for good writing?

>sympathetic villain

  1. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >reluctant hero
    >they spend way too much time saying they don't want to get involved and shit happens while they ignore it or are too scared to do anything about it

  2. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    ??? Dude was insane. He committed genocide because he was too much of a pussy to kill himself.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Season 4 ends with Dracula and Lisa getting resurrected and essentially having a hppy ending but they don't even tell Alucard

      twittertards liked it for muh feels, literally everyone else hated it
      I'd love to see how they retcon this retardation in the next show

  3. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >"If you kill him, you will be just as bad as him!"
    Fuck off with that shit, I didn't spend hours invested in this journey only to be cockblocked at the last minute because "muh superior morals".

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Remember when people like Kenshiro can explode people's head off and nobody calls him anything less than a hero?

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        what does Kenshiro have to do with this? He only ever targets actual serial killers/rapist bandits and raiders and they even try to pull that "You're actually more evil than me" schtick and he doesn't care

        >"redemption arc"

        I think it's funny how fags try to say how much of a """"""complex"""""" character Isaac was but he just came across like a wishy washy hypocrite coward in the end

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          >what does Kenshiro have to do with this? He only ever targets actual serial killers/rapist bandits and raiders and they even try to pull that "You're actually more evil than me" schtick and he doesn't care

          Kenshiro never kills innocent people retard. Are you one of those gays who thinks even violent criminals should be given second chances?

          >Kenshiro never kills innocent people retard. Are you one of those gays who thinks even violent criminals should be given second chances?
          I was saying that characters before could outright kill people in a brutal way and still be called hero and not anti-hero because they did deserve. Nowadays Superman kills the Joker and Injustice happens.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          >he just came across like a wishy washy hypocrite coward in the end
          Truth is that most people are wishy washy hypocrite cowards, because if you're a wishy washy hypocrite coward, you can pretend to be anything else on top of that. That's why someone who's willing to consistently fight and die for their ideals is so compelling.

          >"redemption arc"

          This is an almost entirely modern/wealthy/Western outlook, where we have the opportunity and resources to attempt to reform criminals at length. It's also a direct reaction to the totalitarian outlook of 'the enemy of the state must be destroyed', although they can also be compatible in a sort of doublespeak way.
          >Violent criminals that harm the common folk? Not directly threatening the government, can be reformed.
          >Violent terrorists that attack the government specifically? No mercy, no leftovers.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            >That's why someone who's willing to consistently fight and die for their ideals is so compelling.
            that's the thing, Isaac didn't really have ideals
            he was just very reactive and chimps out, including murdering women and children, at every opportunity and then tries too hard to justify everything he did, that conversation with Fly's Eyes was just corny because it just comes off like he's thinking "Oh if I feel bad about it I don't actually have to take responsibility"
            If he actually cared about helping he would've let himself and all his piece of shit demons die

            He literally only goes after remorseless strawmen who are so ridiculously evil it's comical. You can still be violent and morally ambiguous like Rei and still be his pal. Kenshiro only passes judgement on the absolute worst.

            >You can still be violent and morally ambiguous like Rei and still be his pal
            And even then Rei gets a pass because he knows the life he lives isn't a carefree one and chosing to be that way has consequences, he willingly chose to abandon his humanity if it meant saving Airi and he was brought back from despair thanks to Ken and Mamiya

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              >including murdering women and children
              that's what makes Season 4's weird "Oh these demons and vampires are actually not that bad and humanity is more bad!" bullshit so funny, Season 1 and 2 literally shows babies and children getting ripped apart by vampires and demons who show no remorse but you expect me to sympathize with them? Fuck off

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >humanity is more bad... just because, OK!?!
                This is the shit that bothers me the most. It's never done well and almost always relies on a bunch of assumptions and navel-gazing generalist horseshit.
                >Can't assume all demons are bad... but these humans bullied me so all humans are bad, mkay?
                It smacks of someone who wants to be an edgelord but doesn't have the guts, which is what, based on what I've heard, they did with Issac.
                I kind of went into that here

                >thinking "Oh if I feel bad about it I don't actually have to take responsibility"
                Haven't seen Castlevania myself because I don't watch Netflix, but this right there is why they consider him 'complex'. The reason I stated what I did is because most people are, like I said, wishy washy hypocrite cowards, so they pull the classic 'he's just like me' sympathetic play. When I see someone whose shitty character traits remind me of myself, I don't celebrate them, I get angry with myself. But it's a very human weakness to see someone that thinks the way you do justifying their actions and to re-actively agree with them simply because it shores up your own place and approach to life. I've done it more than once myself.
                [...]
                The implication is that the act of killing IS the consequence, where the person is affected by the decision to take a life, which will presumably affect their methods in the future. That's why a murderer is imprisoned or executed. Because you don't just expect a killer to stop killing, even or especially if that killing is justified. It raises a lot of unsettling questions about who deserves to be allowed to reform, so a lot of people use the no killing rule to sidestep the issue. It also neatly spares children from death, which feeds into ratings and what should be allowed material for children.

                but maybe I wasn't clear enough because I rambled: These people find shitty characters sympathetic because they're shitty people and refuse to accept it. Or they want to try and be as 'open minded' as possible to the point where their brain falls out of their fucking skull. Either way, it has no grounding in consequence and is entirely emotionally based, which is reasonable enough if you want to write a romance novel for thirty-five-year-old single women. It doesn't make a compelling or consistent narrative, but damn does it look pretty through rosy lenses.
                Guess who the audience is? Someone who doesn't care enough to think about it.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >Guess who the audience is? Someone who doesn't care enough to think about it
                eh it seems to have done some damage. When Season 4 premiered I saw a pretty big 50/50 split on people thinking the writing went full retard and people praising it for "muh feels" but when they showed the trailer for the next show I saw a lot of people hoping it just has more fights and less shitty writing
                It might not hit right away but eventually shitty writing always finds a way to bleed through

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Almost anything involving vampires seems to go down that route after a certain amount of time

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              >thinking "Oh if I feel bad about it I don't actually have to take responsibility"
              Haven't seen Castlevania myself because I don't watch Netflix, but this right there is why they consider him 'complex'. The reason I stated what I did is because most people are, like I said, wishy washy hypocrite cowards, so they pull the classic 'he's just like me' sympathetic play. When I see someone whose shitty character traits remind me of myself, I don't celebrate them, I get angry with myself. But it's a very human weakness to see someone that thinks the way you do justifying their actions and to re-actively agree with them simply because it shores up your own place and approach to life. I've done it more than once myself.

              I'm actually fine with this but only if it's phrased as:
              >"If you kill him you better be ready for whatever consequences come your way"
              you'd have to be pretty retarded to kill someone, villain or otherwise, and not expect trouble afterwards

              The implication is that the act of killing IS the consequence, where the person is affected by the decision to take a life, which will presumably affect their methods in the future. That's why a murderer is imprisoned or executed. Because you don't just expect a killer to stop killing, even or especially if that killing is justified. It raises a lot of unsettling questions about who deserves to be allowed to reform, so a lot of people use the no killing rule to sidestep the issue. It also neatly spares children from death, which feeds into ratings and what should be allowed material for children.

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              >If he actually cared about helping he would've let himself and all his piece of shit demons die

              >including murdering women and children
              that's what makes Season 4's weird "Oh these demons and vampires are actually not that bad and humanity is more bad!" bullshit so funny, Season 1 and 2 literally shows babies and children getting ripped apart by vampires and demons who show no remorse but you expect me to sympathize with them? Fuck off

              A Redemption arc is supposed to be triggered by a moment of humility but Isaac has the Captain treating him in a way nobody should and allows him to retain his pride. Hector on the other hand was reduced to a sex slave not for joining Dracula but betraying him and his "redemption" is helping Isaac kill Carmilla and attempting to bring back Dracula.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >but Isaac has the Captain treating him in a way nobody should and allows him to retain his pride
                see I think Isaac was supposed to be humbled by the Captain's conversation and how he didn't judge him, it was supposed to be a moment for him to think "hm I guess not all of them are bad"
                but then he pisses it all away when he sics his demons on that one town just because the guards were "being so darn heckin fuckin rude >:~~*" over him bringing literal killing machines into their town, he just comes across like a sociopathic child
                It's like Ellis wanted Isaac to be a bad guy who COULD have been good but doubles down on being bad and got cold feet when he saw retards praising how """"""""""NUANCED""""""""""""" his character was so Season 4 just feels like him course correcting all his retarded decisions
                >Hector on the other hand was reduced to a sex slave not for joining Dracula but betraying him and his "redemption" is helping Isaac kill Carmilla and attempting to bring back Dracula.
                and what's funny about that is he probably got the best end out of anyone save for the main trio. All his tormenters are either dead or ran away, he and Isaac are cool with each other I guess and he's a free man who can do as he pleases

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >but then he pisses it all away when he sics his demons on that one town just because the guards were "being so darn heckin fuckin rude >:~~*" over him bringing literal killing machines into their town, he just comes across like a sociopathic child
                1) The captain is black.
                2) The captain encourages him to act vengeful but also kind to those who were kind.
                3) That is done in the most ego sparing way possible.
                We are clearly supposed to think that the guards deserved it.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                I genuinely forgot he was black somehow and looking up the clip now I actually forgot that bit about
                >The captain encourages him to act vengeful but also kind to those who were kind.
                nevermind that shit really is just awful

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >he probably got the best end out of anyone save for the main trio
                lol Dracula and Isaac were rewarded for committing genocide, Dracula came back to life and got Lisa back while Isaac got a a kingdom to rule. After getting his ass grounded into dust Hector didn't even get an apology from Isaac for how Dracula and him used Hector like a tool and lied to him for their genocide plans, instead he's the one who has to "earn" forgiveness. The only thing he wanted was the vampussy and he doesn't even get that after all his simping. At the very best he's just back to where he was before meeting Dracula, but as Isaac's subject/prisioner. Just pointless torture porn, which I'm still surprised because I thought he had a better chance at an actual redemption than any other evil side character

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                well yeah when you put it that way yeah
                I guess I'm looking at it from the perspective of "Well at least he doesn't have to put up with that shit anymore"
                it doesn't matter anyway, I hated what they did to his character

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                It's super hard to think of anyone who's been done a bigger disservice in the adaptation of their game.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          >I think it's funny how fags try to say how much of a """"""complex"""""" character Isaac was but he just came across like a wishy washy hypocrite coward in the end
          Black people are taught that they have the right to be angry and to lash out on the world.

          He literally only goes after remorseless strawmen who are so ridiculously evil it's comical. You can still be violent and morally ambiguous like Rei and still be his pal. Kenshiro only passes judgement on the absolute worst.

          I was making fun of how people did buy into that bullshit before while they do now with the Joker.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Kenshiro never kills innocent people retard. Are you one of those gays who thinks even violent criminals should be given second chances?

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        He literally only goes after remorseless strawmen who are so ridiculously evil it's comical. You can still be violent and morally ambiguous like Rei and still be his pal. Kenshiro only passes judgement on the absolute worst.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      This is such a shitty trope I can't believe some people defend it

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Its especially silly since there are plenty of more pragmatic and plausible reasons to advocate not killing. I think a big one for me that related is when the non-killing hero has to deal with an anti-hero who does kill the anti-hero will always turn out to be a loon in order to make the moral argument much easier. You rarely ever see the conflict play out between two reasonable sides where the issue becomes murkier.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          >Its especially silly since there are plenty of more pragmatic and plausible reasons to advocate not killing.
          This
          >You can't kill him we need to know where he hid the bombs/hostages
          >You can't kill him, he has to be tried in a court
          Just a couple of examples
          The "no kill" shit is especially egregious in stories in which there is no other recourse for the villain

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Most writers have never known violence and want to preach from their ivory tower.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      not to defend the cliche but I suppose the general idea is that your average person can't handle murdering someone so casually even if it's for a justified reason. Not to say they're mentally weak but there's probably something wrong with your brain if you kill someone, piece of shit or not, and you don't feel anything from it
      plus it's the idea that a "good guy" should've already figured out other solutions other than "just kill them" instead of just defaulting to murder like the villain is already doing

      obviously it doesn't work but I think there have been a few examples of it working like Katara in ATLA

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        >but I think there have been a few examples of it working like Katara in ATLA
        That one was fine because she was a kid and no one but herself chose to spare him, notice how Zuko didn't interfere

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous
    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      I'm actually fine with this but only if it's phrased as:
      >"If you kill him you better be ready for whatever consequences come your way"
      you'd have to be pretty retarded to kill someone, villain or otherwise, and not expect trouble afterwards

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      The only way this works is if leaving them alive is more torture than killing them, because then they are receiving proper comeuppance.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      it's not about arbitrary moral rule you fucking retards, but about psycology altering effects of murder, especially if it was not an accident but a fully concious action
      this effect might damage a person sometimes even in a manner that will indeed make a so called hero into a problem

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Heres the thing the Hero (lets leave superheros out of this) is already neck deep in horrific amounts of violence on a day to day basis he already should be fucked up from that. Killing is such an arbitrary stop point when you've been breaking bones, crippling and maiming people for god knows how many chapters/episodes. If anything I find the idea of a person I've killed less scary than one I've grievously injured

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          >Heres the thing the Hero (lets leave superheros out of this) is already neck deep in horrific amounts of violence on a day to day basis he already should be fucked up from that
          I mean some people can put up with a lot of bullshit for a long time but sometimes one more fucked up thing happening could be the straw that broke the camels back when you don't even think it'll happen, mental stress is a giant trickster like that
          and I don't know mean some Joker shit where you go bananas over it, I mean "This last thing just happened and now I'm suddenly processing everything that just happened"

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            True, but still we treat the act of killing as some be all end all of fucked which is retarded. Like we're fine with heroes torturing, maiming and all other sorts of fucked up shit, we're fine with the lead up to killing and pretend that that doesn't effect people, it's just dumb

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              who said i'am fine with heroes torturing people? in fact i consider a torturer a complete lost cause. way worse than a killer, and he/she should be put down the moment they are no longer of immidiate use

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >who said i'am fine with heroes torturing people?
                I didn't, I was just pivoting back to how dumb "killing is bad" when the characters are doing just as if not more fucked up shit. I'm just saying we have some weird ass hang ups about some dumbass shit. Hell look at this apparently Iceman crippling a bunch of dudes in an act of rage is more okay than Punisher shooting a mook in the face, fiction is full of this shit

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                I mean it seems pretty obvious judging by Bishop's reaction (I'm assuming it's Bishop) that Iceman doing that isn't a good thing

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Again I'd agree, but the issue ends with this page so who knows what was going on in the minds of the author and writer

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                let me guess,Krakoan Iceman?.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      I think it exists because a lot of people don't like the idea of the hero executing defeated enemies. The solution nobody seems to take is having the hero finish the fight with the villain with a big fuck off killing blow instead

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      exactly

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        That is the most retarded picture I've seen in a long while

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        >democratically popular leader takes over as dictator whithout any cue
        >capitalism did this

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Star Wars is about how democracy is decadent and corrupt and leads to stagnation yet is still worth the last few good souls fighting for it because it's better than the alternative

        Also how butt cheeks should come in a literal rainbow of colors

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >"We killed 1000s of his mobs who all have lives and family but if we kill HIM, the mastermind behind all of the evil, we will be just as evil as him!"

  4. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Basically "depth" being used as a something self-evidently true.

  5. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >"redemption arc"

  6. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >the villains plan was just
    no a villain is never just

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      brainlet take

  7. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >muh therapy

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      This one I don't get, whats wrong with therapy? If you find those kids in social media saying therapy for everything is one thing but when you have a super hero seeing death and destruction on a regular basis and even having friends killed in combat what is wrong with seeking therapy?

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        What makes it annoying is the melodrama forced into it. Like you never just see people talking about shit. You can have people going to therapy without making it seem like the act of going to therapy is a major plot point and indicative of something really went wrong.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          Therapy is mostly paying someone to listen to you talk. You can write a story with that resolution without "hurr durr why don't they just go to therapy?".

          I wouldn't mind a villain being sympathetic if they're also irredeemable.
          For example: It could be argued that Hitler is a sympathetic villain if you've studied his personal history and the reasons why he is what he is and why he did what he did but he's still irredeemable to the vast majority of people.

          Dracula is irredeemable. It is just the writers think being a "man of science" and "not racist" magically makes him good guy that just did an oppies.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        because therapy is bullshit

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          Such a brave and rare opinion.

  8. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    I really don't like "the chosen one" conceit. That Harry Potter gimmick that a character is born for something special.

  9. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    He wasn't a "sympathetic villain", he was sympathetic BEFORE becoming a villain and even then, only to his wife. If he was ever convinced of what she told him about humans he wouldn't have commited genocide. He was just playing it cool for her while it lasted.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Bullshit. Season 2 was nothing but boo hoo how sad and finale depicted him coming back to life to be a good thing.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        >Season 2 was nothing but boo hoo how sad and finale depicted him coming back to life to be a good thing.
        to play doubles avocado here, at least in Season 2 he was still willing to genocide humans even when he was being a sad sack and all the sympathetic stuff relating to Alucard and Lisa was stuff they took from the games so it fit
        Everything else after that was completely retarded however

  10. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    I don't mind sympathetic villains but they should remain villains, I don't want them redeemed I want them to die at the end.

  11. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    I wouldn't mind a villain being sympathetic if they're also irredeemable.
    For example: It could be argued that Hitler is a sympathetic villain if you've studied his personal history and the reasons why he is what he is and why he did what he did but he's still irredeemable to the vast majority of people.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >Hitler
      We really need a Poe's law 2.0
      >The longer any discussion about villains and tropes related to them continues someone WILL bring up Hitler unprompted

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Hitler's an interesting guy anon

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          Yeah but there are countless other just as interesting dictators you could bring up that have less of a chance of derailing threads. Hitler is the normalfag dictator

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      If WW2 was an anime you know just before Hitler dies we get a flashback to when he was an innocent art student and how WW1 changed him so we feel bad for him despite him still being an evil guy who killed a bunch of people.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        It would have him finishing up a painting ready to present it to his teacher.

  12. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Quips and memes = witty banter/character traits. There is no trope I hate seeing defended more than the 500 MCU characters being given the exact same personality, types of speech, and quirks that's just the exact same thing written slightly differently. It's not even something writing that's inherently realistic anyway, nobody in history has talked remotely like that. It's even more noticable in Buffy the Vampire Slayer how unrealistic it is because the characters are meant to be ordinary high schoolers.

  13. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >relatable
    no one gives a shit

  14. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Villains actually getting a W instead of an L every now and then instead of almost always getting the L.

  15. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Whiny underdog "relatable" protagonist.

  16. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    I'm genuinely getting tired of sympathetic villains. The trope seems to also cause any mid with to automatically think the villain should win or "did nothing wrong" despite the mountains of evidence to the contrary.

  17. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Would this count as a trope?
    >men be mean to me, I must be lesbian now.
    >only female be nice to me, I am lesbian now.

  18. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Fuck the Castlevnia show. It didnt have to be 100% lore accurate but fuck man, that shit was disappointing. At least follow main beats goddammit. Literally undoing Dracula's motivation ruins the whole series' plot. Then doing the most normie thing and skipping straight to Rondo/Sotn. Ugh.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >doing the most normie thing and skipping straight to Rondo/Sotn
      Some people argue that this was the right move, and that Simon and Christopher's games had no story to pull from.

      I think that argument's kinda silly, especially seeing how the show's already torn apart a game with more story and background material than SOTN.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Yeah and those people are fucking stupid. They could have fused Chris' 2 games and that would have been fine. Simon's arc could have been a good one too with the 1st season being straightforward and then into Simon's Quest. If they made cool side characters and made the monsters fights cool and interesting there is no reason why it wouldnt work.

Your email address will not be published.