He legitimately might have been the biggest piece of shit out of the 5 kings, he didn’t even know about the Jaime/Cersei incest meaning he was trying to usurp and murder his dead brothers children and his surviving brother just out of his own greed.
He legitimately might have been the biggest piece of shit out of the 5 kings, he didn’t even know about the Jaime/Cersei incest meaning he was trying to usurp and murder his dead brothers children and his surviving brother just out of his own greed.
as he said 'nobody wants Stannis as King'.
Renly thought he could win over as the most popular king. Given the state of the Lannisters its a good argument.
His prob was Renly was more of an egomaniac than a serious contender.
>as he said 'nobody wants Stannis as King'
After Renly is killed all of his former supporters immediately defect to Stannis (the guy they were just about to go to war against) or frick off completely without caring to avenge him. After Stannis is defeated and his cause seems hopeless many of his supporters who were captured choose death rather than renouncing their support for him and those who escaped follow Stannis to the ends of the Earth to fight Wildlings and the Others. Maybe the high lords wouldn’t like Stannis because he wouldn’t be as easily corrupted or walked over as Robert or Renly but the people who actually knew him were as loyal to him as the North was to Ned.
If he was smart, he should have at least joined forces with Stannis to wipe out the Lannisters, and then figure out how to usurp him later. At the very least, that removes one major enemy from the conflict.
If it's true that "nobody wants Stannis as King", Renly could have easily created a public campaign (after the Lannisters were gone) that turned the common citizenry against having the Seven Kingdoms ruled by Stannis and presented himself as a better alternative.
Seriously. If he'd just supported his brother in the first place, they would have stomped the others so hard there'd have been no story
[...]
as he said 'nobody wants Stannis as King'.
Renly thought he could win over as the most popular king. Given the state of the Lannisters its a good argument.
His prob was Renly was more of an egomaniac than a serious contender.
It was all Loras' idea. He was buttdrunk on twink bussy and his boywife convinced him he should be king.
He was moronic. He should have have backed up his big brother, stannis unironically regretted everything, especiallycucking his wife, letting his baby bro get killed and especially his baby girl get burned
>be competent, well liked Baratheon sibling >your eldest brother is a sexless neet who everyone hates >other one is a fat moron who can't even run up a flight of stairs >literally everyone, and I mean, everyone would prefer a Renly-run Kingdom because nothing he does rocks the boat, he's not particularly controversial and the small folk like him >all Ned had to do was not be a raging autist for three seconds to allow him to marry the Tyrell girl and have them pay off the kingdom's debts >literally would have been the easiest way to pay off the Iron Bank
A younger brother usurping his elder brother is a horrible precedent to set, basically every time a lord dies now his children and brothers will be fighting for his title because Renly becoming king de facto says that’s how succession works now.
>t. first time in Westeros
And Aegon just decided everything was free real estate, have you read the fricking books mongo? None of it matters, Renly had the power and the money to solidify his reign. The country would have been fine with it. From a practical standpoint, Renly is safe.
Aegon’s conquest was 300 years ago tard. Renly betraying his elder brother and nephews would be virtually unprecedented and would do massive damage to the stability of Westeros because of what it means for normal succession law. Basically saying “to the strongest”
>showgay who didn't read the books
lol moron the Ninepenny Kings war was pretty recent all things considered, ever since Aegon arrived it's been Targs killing Targs, "muh succession" and "muh rights" doesn't matter, it's literally never mattered. Aegon didn't deserve Westeros because he was good at debates or looked good on a poster, he had dragons. Do...do you just not get the books?
>lol moron the Ninepenny Kings war was pretty recent
t. moron who just read the wiki instead of the books or show. The Ninepenny kings didn’t even make it to fricking Westeros. They have nothing to do with and no impact on Westeros laws of succession. >Targs killing Targs, "muh succession" and "muh rights" doesn't matter, it's literally never mattered
There have been civil wars and usurpations before yes, there has never been in the history of Westeros a king like Renly who not only didn’t have a claim but didn’t even try to justify his rebellion. The moron intentionally didn’t give a justification to his rebellion because he believed so strongly in his might makes right moronation.
4 months ago
Anonymous
I don't think you understood the point I was trying to make about the Ninepenny Kings... >There have been civil wars and usurpations before yes, there has never been in the history of Westeros a king like Renly who not only didn’t have a claim but didn’t even try to justify his rebellion.
Kek yes there absolutely has. That's just objectively incorrect. Is this bait?
4 months ago
Anonymous
>I don't think you understood the point I was trying to make about the Ninepenny Kings
Please explain what the Ninepenny kings have to do with Renly fricking over Westeros’s succession then >Kek yes there absolutely has. That's just objectively incorrect. Is this bait?
Please list one that has happened within the last 100 years of Westeros history
4 months ago
Anonymous
The point was that, unless you are a dumb homosexual, Blackfyres have a legitimate claim to the throne, but got "certain point of view'd" to make it look like they don't, because none of this shit matters, much of it is probably bullshit anyway, it's the entire throughline of ASOIAF that it doesn't matter you drooling moron. "Power resides where men BELIEVE it resides" it's why Fake Aegon is most likely, as a subversion, actually the Elia's kid, because the irony is that nobody will fricking believe him anyway. >please list one
The Dance of Dragons you absolute fricking mongo.
4 months ago
Anonymous
>The point was that, unless you are a dumb homosexual, Blackfyres have a legitimate claim to the throne, but got "certain point of view'd" to make it look like they don't
Are you legitimately moronic? The fact that the Blackfyres had a claim proves my point. Every single fricking civil war or usurpation in Westerosi history has had a claim, real or false, except Renly who didn’t even try. His claim was literally just “I have the biggest army lol” >it's the entire throughline of ASOIAF that it doesn't matter you drooling moron. "Power resides where men BELIEVE it resides" it's why Fake Aegon is most likely, as a subversion, actually the Elia's kid, because the irony is that nobody will fricking believe him anyway.
Yes fake Aegon has power because people believe he might be a Targaryen, ie people think he has a claim which gives him power. If Renly sets the precedent that you don’t even have to pretend to have a claim, that just having the ability to take the throne also gives you the right, then what happens the next time any lord of Westeros dies? What’s stopping his brothers, subjects, and younger sons, from murdering his eldest son and taking over because hey the king did it so why can’t I?
Power lies where people believe it lies, if people believe that succession laws have massive power and are sacrosanct they are, if people believe they’re meaningless it is as well which is an unprecedented blow to Westeros stability. That’s why the Freys spitting on guest right was seen as such a big deal. Guest right itself doesn’t have any power except what it’s given. These are simple concepts the book uses how did you not understand it?
4 months ago
Anonymous
I think you might be ESL if you aren't understanding what my very simple points are. Last (you).
4 months ago
Anonymous
I accept your concession
4 months ago
Anonymous
It's not a concession newhomosexual, I explained my point and you didn't like it. Characters in ASOIAF go as far as to manifest their own bullshit reasons for succession all the time, this isn't Lord of the Rings rules where you have magic king blood, it's a facade. Renly had his own justifications for it and in both the books and show, Westeros at large seemed fine with his reasons. So you are having an argument with yourself and I'm not biting anymore.
4 months ago
Anonymous
>Characters in ASOIAF go as far as to manifest their own bullshit reasons for succession all the time
How the frick do you still not get my point? Yes plenty of people make up claims, Renly not even trying to and LARPing as Aegon the Conqueror without dragons while trying to murder his brother and nephews is utterly unprecedented and a horrible standard to set for future succession.
4 months ago
Anonymous
I'm saying I disagree with you that he "didn't even try" to make claims.
4 months ago
Anonymous
Please quote the line where Renly presented his justification
4 months ago
Anonymous
Nah I don't want to.
4 months ago
Anonymous
Once again I accept you concession
4 months ago
Anonymous
>implying having the largest army isn't a valid reason
So Aegon having dragons wasn't a valid reason, ok good point.
4 months ago
Anonymous
Renly literally justified his claim by saying Stannis was unfit and possibly mad and that his nephew was born of incest. That happens in the books.
4 months ago
Anonymous
Renly didn’t even believe the incest claims. That was all Stannis who spread them.
4 months ago
Anonymous
>there has never been in the history of Westeros a king like Renly who not only didn’t have a claim but didn’t even try to justify his rebellion.
What about Maegor? That guy simply claimed the throne despite his nephew being the rightful heir.
4 months ago
Anonymous
has never been in the history of Westeros a king like Renly who not only didn’t have a claim but didn’t even try to justify his rebellion.
Though ironically, there have been queens who tried
4 months ago
Anonymous
Maegor, the one everyone considers an butthole, evil and sustained on dark magic.
Politics does not a realm make, out of all of them Stannis is the best administrator and general
He could've been on the small council and heir to Stannis if he wasn't up his own (and Renly's) ass
>stannisgay shidding and farding
my dude, when the second richest House puts all their chips into a Renly reign and you decide that's somehow not best for the economy, you are making a bad long term decision.
>when the second richest House puts all their chips into a Renly reign and you decide that's somehow not best for the economy
Robert had the support of the richest house and the realm still ended up in massive debt because the king was an idiot and Littlefinger was scheming master of coin. Under Renly the king would still be a lazy idiot and Littlefinger would almost certainly remain master of coin. Stannis was legit the only real option
That’s a show only plot line that made no sense and had no impact on the plot line outside of one throwaway line
4 months ago
Anonymous
George wrote it, bud.
4 months ago
Anonymous
Lannisters aren’t running out of gold, and even with their gold they’re still occasionally out-riched by people like the Velaryons—because exotically acquired gold is better than normie mined gold.
4 months ago
Anonymous
George literally confirmed they are out of gold, it's why Tywin is so bothered by the war because if it challenges the established power dynamic, it means his House isn't secure.
4 months ago
Anonymous
Show me the interview where he said this.
4 months ago
Anonymous
>episode written by....
4 months ago
Anonymous
TV Show and books are unique products, next argument
4 months ago
Anonymous
All the major plot points from the show are more or less going to be the same in the books, all the ones that don't deviate too hard. This is like saying Jon isn't a targ because it's only in the show.
4 months ago
Anonymous
Jon being a Targ is heavily hinted at throughout the series, there is not a single bit of evidence in any of the books the Lannister are running out of money
4 months ago
Anonymous
>he just insists Joff marry the Tyrells because uh...well...it has nothing to do with maybe the Lannisters not having as much money as they claimed!
Again, episode written by...
4 months ago
Anonymous
He insists Joffrey marries the Tyrell’s because at that point in the series it’s the Lannisters alone against the North, the Riverlands, and the Stormlands with the Reach having a massive army and food supplies. Paying off debt doesn’t come into play in the slightest
>Despite his oath to the Mad King Stannis rises up to support his brother during the rebellion, spending a year starving at Storms End to protect Robert’s capital >Renly immediately betrays and prepares to kill Stannis the second he sees the opportunity for social advancement
Given that Stannis was an unlikable tard who everyone thinks fell for black magic from a foreign religion I'd assume Renly thinks he's a bad day away from committing a Columbine
Stannis is bound to regret it because he's a man of character. Renly is a prostitute with a name, he would regret it from fear until the position was secured and rationalize it afterwards. When the next thief of the crown comes for Renly, he might have the perspective to understand what he did was wrong, but Stannis would know while performing the act.
Renly he killed in self-defense and doesn't seem to fully understand how the shadow babies work. Joffrey, Myrcella, and Tommen he knew weren't Roberts children before rebelling, Renly didn't know and was going to kill them anyways.
I'm ok with him killing Renly given he was in open rebellion. He doesn't really "know" Joff and co aren't Robert's though. And he did already try to kill Edric Storm.
>He doesn't really "know" Joff and co aren't Robert's though
By the dumb GRRM laws of genetics he did, which is the only thing that matters >And he did already try to kill Edric Storm
What is the life of one boy against the tens of thousands who would have been saved ending the war?
4 months ago
Anonymous
>What is the life of one boy against the tens of thousands who would have been saved ending the war?
All.
4 months ago
Anonymous
Not an argument
4 months ago
Anonymous
If Davos didn’t save Gendry there wouldn’t be anyone to run the fabled haunted forest marathon in record time to go get Daenerys. Which woulda meant Jon died without showing the wight to Cersei, and Dany woulda just conquered kings landing and visirion wouldn’t have become undead. in other words David is responsible for some of the worst writing in television history
Renly was a Chad IN THE BOOKS. He's basically a clone of Robert but more charismatic and gayer.
Show!Renly is a mincing homosexual who needs Loras to tell him to make a claim for the throne.
It's the complete opposite, book Renly is a vain, empty man only interested in becoming king because of the aesthetics of power. GRRM was very explicit in Catelyn noting his army was holding feasts and jousts to display how completely unserious he was and unprepared for what he was getting into. Show Renly is borderline a progressive stand in for the writers and is shown to a good character killed for being good.
>GRRM was very explicit in Catelyn noting his army was holding feasts and jousts to display how completely unserious he was and unprepared for what he was getting into.
Kings Landing was starving and effectively under siege, and the Starks and Lannisters are beating the shit out of each other while he has an entirely fresh army. Caitlin is an idiot for thinking that's a bad course of action
>Renly shrugged. "Tell me, what right did my brother Robert ever have to the Iron Throne?" He did not wait for an answer. "Oh, there was talk of the blood ties between Baratheon and Targaryen, of weddings a hundred years past, of second sons and elder daughters. No one but the maesters care about any of it. Robert won the throne with his warhammer." He swept a hand across the campfires that burned from horizon to horizon. "Well, there is my claim, as good as Robert's ever was.
>He swept a hand across the campfires that burned from horizon to horizon. "Well, there is my claim, as good as Robert's ever was.
thanks for proving me right
If Renly had been smart, or had cared somewhat about the kingdoms he intended to rule, he'd have supported Stannis, easily won the war by his side, and then poisoned him in the aftermath. Stannis had no descendants besides a sickly girl with fantasy AIDS, Renly would have gotten the throne upon his death.
If he was smart, he should have at least joined forces with Stannis to wipe out the Lannisters, and then figure out how to usurp him later. At the very least, that removes one major enemy from the conflict.
If it's true that "nobody wants Stannis as King", Renly could have easily created a public campaign (after the Lannisters were gone) that turned the common citizenry against having the Seven Kingdoms ruled by Stannis and presented himself as a better alternative.
Stannis would've named him heir over Shireen, wouldn't he? Or didn't he even say it?
He promised to make him his heir over Shireen yeah, Renly is moronic for turning that offer down. The only reason not to accept it is how similar in age they would be so it would be a while before he becomes king but still, being heir basically gives Renly all he wanted. All the trappings of power with none of the duties.
>Renly had no reason to accept it
Other than the fact that his army led by Stannis and Randyl Tarly would easily beat the Lannisters alone, not to mention Stannis actually was the rightful king >it would have crippled what reputation he had
His reputation as a usurper and would-be kinslayer? A younger brother doing their duty and helping their older brother claim their rightful throne would not have hurt his reputation it would have improved it. >He figured Stannis would roll over or be swept aside
He is canonically a dumbass >And to be fair, it took an insane deus ex machina for Stannis not to be annihilated
Stannis might have won the battle even without Shadow Demon tricks. Renly (moron he is) was planning on allowing Loras to lead a charge of all cavalry uphill staring into the rising sun against Stannis's heavily fortified position.
>Other than the fact that his army led by Stannis
he didn't need Stannis, Randyll was more than enough >His reputation as a usurper and would-be kinslayer?
he was already crowned before the stormlords and the reach lords. setting aside his crown would be humiliating and appear weak to the tyrells, redwynes and others >He is canonically a dumbass
stannis? well yeah, and that's why he canonically loses. he's a moron, imagine getting flanked by 100,000 men by surprise. >Stannis might have won the battle even
lol, lmao even. scarcely 4,000 smallfolk militia backed by a handful of knights and freeriders against 20,000 knights
4 months ago
Anonymous
>he didn't need Stannis, Randyll was more than enough
Clearly not because he ignored Randyll and put fricking Loras in charge >he was already crowned before the stormlords and the reach lords. setting aside his crown would be humiliating and appear weak to the tyrells, redwynes and others
The Stormlords were his bannermen, they would have supported him after joining Stannis just like they defected to Stannis when he died. They were in it for duty, money, and glory, they didn't actually care for Renly. The Reach would have b***hed but there was nothing they could do with Margaery already married to Renly. Renly and Margaery's child would have eventually become king so they would have still supported him anyways. >stannis? well yeah, and that's why he canonically loses. he's a moron, imagine getting flanked by 100,000 men by surprise
Stannis is canonically the greatest military mind in Westeros. He was not flanked at the Blackwater either those were deus ex reinforcements. >lol, lmao even. scarcely 4,000 smallfolk militia backed by a handful of knights and freeriders against 20,000 knights
t. Renly, that hubris in thinking his victory was guaranteed was why he left behind his main army to attack Stannis's entrenched position with only the 20,000 men of his cavalry.
4 months ago
Anonymous
>Clearly not because he ignored Randyll and put fricking Loras in charge
all that says is randyll is overkill lol >The Stormlords were his bannermen >The Reach would have b***hed
and their respect would have tanked for a man giving up his crown despite outnumbering his autistic brother 25-to-1. just too moronic to imagine taking stannis' offer seriously. >Stannis is canonically the greatest military mind
that's why he got rekt by tyrion and outflanked in a surprise attack by a horde of infantry lol >only the 20,000 men of his cavalry.
aka the killing blow of an army, ask stannis at the wall about that
The fact that Renly admitted to Ned that he coveted the throne was the first major red flag that showed how much of an idiot he was. If only he kept quiet, Ned probably would have accepted Renly's offer to lend him his troops in this scene https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx1azK3QxdU. But no. Renly is impulsive and arrogant as frick. He would have made a terrible king.
Even if Shireen were official heir, once Stannis died no one would care. She was a dying little girl no one expected would live much longer. She would have no support.
In the books, he's an idiot being manipulated by his boyfriend's family. There's a big emphasis placed on how he treats everything like a big game, holding tournaments and feasts instead of strategizing, and mostly just sitting around looking pretty while the Tyrells make all the actual decisions. His childishness is emphasized in the famous "peach scene", where he mocks stannis at parley by tossing him a peach. That childish act later comes to haunt Stannis after he murders Renley.
In the show they tried to play up the idea that he's potentially a good king so that his death is more tragic, but it doesn't really work. Renley seems confident he could be an actual ruler, but doesn't display much sensible leadership beyond being open to working with the Starks as allies of convenience (which everyone else rejects on absurd personal grounds).
He's a politician >Problem: My brother is dying and my nephew who hates me an who I've spent years openly mocking and his psycho mother are about to be in charge of country >Plan A: me and Ned kill Cersei secure Joffrey and dare the Lannisters to try anythi- Oh shit Neds a moron >Plan B: OK its war Only way to raise a massive army is promise to make Mace father in law to the king. Yeah screw it why not I hate Stannis anyway
Renly's bid for kingship is more a developing plan to save his own neck. Would probably have worked too if not for heathen ginger women
How would the reigns of each king look like if the whole "War of the Five Kings" wasn't a thing and the Others weren't the horizon? Personally, with Renly, I have the impression he woulod make for a bad ruler like Robert. I think he'll be wasteful and arrogant, but I think it'll at least be a relatively peaceful reign.
I don't know with loras in his ear, and ass, and Robert's military career being the backbone of his rule I think renly would start foreign wars or internal ones over stupid shit just for a chance to prove himself.
Would Loras really adovocate for that? I think upon securing the throne, I feel he'll try to make sure Renly doesn't do anything to endanger it. They would already have won the game, so why try and push?
Because he's an arrogant prick and soldier who would get bored really fast. People act like his suicide mission to dragonstone was his loss of renly but I think he's just a braggart and glory hound.
I think the stupidest "king" was balon by far. Like what was that guy really hoping to achieve? He wasn't going to suddenly go back to the old days and have this super strong navy and raider force that could openly attack the others with impunity. It was only a matter of time before the other kings stopped being distracted then the Iron Islands would have been wiped off the map and depopulated for good.
He didn’t take it Harren the Black fricking built it, it was supposed to be his impenetrable fortress to rule his Kingdom of Rivers and Islands from and then Aegon the Conqueror showed up and melted him in it
The Iron Islands are so stupid. Like vikings had an actual culture and weren't just brutish invaders. I have no idea how a bunch of dipshit islanders on a bunch of rocks manage to do as much as they did, nor how a place like Westeros didn't just kill them off, or at least, made serious changes to that damnec archipelago.
homosexualry is a mental illness
1. He was a gay who thought gay kings last long.
2. He underestimated the power of black magic
3. He was a bottom.
He legitimately might have been the biggest piece of shit out of the 5 kings, he didn’t even know about the Jaime/Cersei incest meaning he was trying to usurp and murder his dead brothers children and his surviving brother just out of his own greed.
Seriously. If he'd just supported his brother in the first place, they would have stomped the others so hard there'd have been no story
as he said 'nobody wants Stannis as King'.
Renly thought he could win over as the most popular king. Given the state of the Lannisters its a good argument.
His prob was Renly was more of an egomaniac than a serious contender.
>as he said 'nobody wants Stannis as King'
After Renly is killed all of his former supporters immediately defect to Stannis (the guy they were just about to go to war against) or frick off completely without caring to avenge him. After Stannis is defeated and his cause seems hopeless many of his supporters who were captured choose death rather than renouncing their support for him and those who escaped follow Stannis to the ends of the Earth to fight Wildlings and the Others. Maybe the high lords wouldn’t like Stannis because he wouldn’t be as easily corrupted or walked over as Robert or Renly but the people who actually knew him were as loyal to him as the North was to Ned.
>source for Stannis being hated
>the guy actively trying to murder his brother
Great argument
If he was smart, he should have at least joined forces with Stannis to wipe out the Lannisters, and then figure out how to usurp him later. At the very least, that removes one major enemy from the conflict.
If it's true that "nobody wants Stannis as King", Renly could have easily created a public campaign (after the Lannisters were gone) that turned the common citizenry against having the Seven Kingdoms ruled by Stannis and presented himself as a better alternative.
Stupid play, the moment Stannis gets the throne he will be on that throne until he dies.
He would kill and or remove from power anyone who he evens suspects would be working against him
It was all Loras' idea. He was buttdrunk on twink bussy and his boywife convinced him he should be king.
he did it so his butt buddy's sister can be queen
How does basically a prince of a region get molested without anyone noticing?
He was his squire
I mean Renly himself but good point, Loras shouldn't be gay either
It's common practice to send noblechildren to be wards of other great allied noble houses.
Very easy for a young vulnerable child to be abused in that kind of situation.
He was moronic. He should have have backed up his big brother, stannis unironically regretted everything, especiallycucking his wife, letting his baby bro get killed and especially his baby girl get burned
>be competent, well liked Baratheon sibling
>your eldest brother is a sexless neet who everyone hates
>other one is a fat moron who can't even run up a flight of stairs
>literally everyone, and I mean, everyone would prefer a Renly-run Kingdom because nothing he does rocks the boat, he's not particularly controversial and the small folk like him
>all Ned had to do was not be a raging autist for three seconds to allow him to marry the Tyrell girl and have them pay off the kingdom's debts
>literally would have been the easiest way to pay off the Iron Bank
A younger brother usurping his elder brother is a horrible precedent to set, basically every time a lord dies now his children and brothers will be fighting for his title because Renly becoming king de facto says that’s how succession works now.
>t. first time in Westeros
And Aegon just decided everything was free real estate, have you read the fricking books mongo? None of it matters, Renly had the power and the money to solidify his reign. The country would have been fine with it. From a practical standpoint, Renly is safe.
Aegon’s conquest was 300 years ago tard. Renly betraying his elder brother and nephews would be virtually unprecedented and would do massive damage to the stability of Westeros because of what it means for normal succession law. Basically saying “to the strongest”
>showgay who didn't read the books
lol moron the Ninepenny Kings war was pretty recent all things considered, ever since Aegon arrived it's been Targs killing Targs, "muh succession" and "muh rights" doesn't matter, it's literally never mattered. Aegon didn't deserve Westeros because he was good at debates or looked good on a poster, he had dragons. Do...do you just not get the books?
>lol moron the Ninepenny Kings war was pretty recent
t. moron who just read the wiki instead of the books or show. The Ninepenny kings didn’t even make it to fricking Westeros. They have nothing to do with and no impact on Westeros laws of succession.
>Targs killing Targs, "muh succession" and "muh rights" doesn't matter, it's literally never mattered
There have been civil wars and usurpations before yes, there has never been in the history of Westeros a king like Renly who not only didn’t have a claim but didn’t even try to justify his rebellion. The moron intentionally didn’t give a justification to his rebellion because he believed so strongly in his might makes right moronation.
I don't think you understood the point I was trying to make about the Ninepenny Kings...
>There have been civil wars and usurpations before yes, there has never been in the history of Westeros a king like Renly who not only didn’t have a claim but didn’t even try to justify his rebellion.
Kek yes there absolutely has. That's just objectively incorrect. Is this bait?
>I don't think you understood the point I was trying to make about the Ninepenny Kings
Please explain what the Ninepenny kings have to do with Renly fricking over Westeros’s succession then
>Kek yes there absolutely has. That's just objectively incorrect. Is this bait?
Please list one that has happened within the last 100 years of Westeros history
The point was that, unless you are a dumb homosexual, Blackfyres have a legitimate claim to the throne, but got "certain point of view'd" to make it look like they don't, because none of this shit matters, much of it is probably bullshit anyway, it's the entire throughline of ASOIAF that it doesn't matter you drooling moron. "Power resides where men BELIEVE it resides" it's why Fake Aegon is most likely, as a subversion, actually the Elia's kid, because the irony is that nobody will fricking believe him anyway.
>please list one
The Dance of Dragons you absolute fricking mongo.
>The point was that, unless you are a dumb homosexual, Blackfyres have a legitimate claim to the throne, but got "certain point of view'd" to make it look like they don't
Are you legitimately moronic? The fact that the Blackfyres had a claim proves my point. Every single fricking civil war or usurpation in Westerosi history has had a claim, real or false, except Renly who didn’t even try. His claim was literally just “I have the biggest army lol”
>it's the entire throughline of ASOIAF that it doesn't matter you drooling moron. "Power resides where men BELIEVE it resides" it's why Fake Aegon is most likely, as a subversion, actually the Elia's kid, because the irony is that nobody will fricking believe him anyway.
Yes fake Aegon has power because people believe he might be a Targaryen, ie people think he has a claim which gives him power. If Renly sets the precedent that you don’t even have to pretend to have a claim, that just having the ability to take the throne also gives you the right, then what happens the next time any lord of Westeros dies? What’s stopping his brothers, subjects, and younger sons, from murdering his eldest son and taking over because hey the king did it so why can’t I?
Power lies where people believe it lies, if people believe that succession laws have massive power and are sacrosanct they are, if people believe they’re meaningless it is as well which is an unprecedented blow to Westeros stability. That’s why the Freys spitting on guest right was seen as such a big deal. Guest right itself doesn’t have any power except what it’s given. These are simple concepts the book uses how did you not understand it?
I think you might be ESL if you aren't understanding what my very simple points are. Last (you).
I accept your concession
It's not a concession newhomosexual, I explained my point and you didn't like it. Characters in ASOIAF go as far as to manifest their own bullshit reasons for succession all the time, this isn't Lord of the Rings rules where you have magic king blood, it's a facade. Renly had his own justifications for it and in both the books and show, Westeros at large seemed fine with his reasons. So you are having an argument with yourself and I'm not biting anymore.
>Characters in ASOIAF go as far as to manifest their own bullshit reasons for succession all the time
How the frick do you still not get my point? Yes plenty of people make up claims, Renly not even trying to and LARPing as Aegon the Conqueror without dragons while trying to murder his brother and nephews is utterly unprecedented and a horrible standard to set for future succession.
I'm saying I disagree with you that he "didn't even try" to make claims.
Please quote the line where Renly presented his justification
Nah I don't want to.
Once again I accept you concession
>implying having the largest army isn't a valid reason
So Aegon having dragons wasn't a valid reason, ok good point.
Renly literally justified his claim by saying Stannis was unfit and possibly mad and that his nephew was born of incest. That happens in the books.
Renly didn’t even believe the incest claims. That was all Stannis who spread them.
>there has never been in the history of Westeros a king like Renly who not only didn’t have a claim but didn’t even try to justify his rebellion.
What about Maegor? That guy simply claimed the throne despite his nephew being the rightful heir.
has never been in the history of Westeros a king like Renly who not only didn’t have a claim but didn’t even try to justify his rebellion.
Though ironically, there have been queens who tried
Maegor, the one everyone considers an butthole, evil and sustained on dark magic.
>muh books
Completely irrelevant to discussion homosexual
The show is an adaptation. Its failures to do that accurately are completely relevant.
No way this isn’t bait
who don't any of you actually read the books?
Great idea! Who needs a king?
>No king no king lalalalalala
>A fricking lion king reference
nice
Yeah, he would've been the best choice.
Renly was a vain dipshit who would have been just as lazy and wasteful as Robert as king. Stannis was the only real choice.
>Stannis
Too autistic for the job. Renly was a natural politician.
Politics does not a realm make, out of all of them Stannis is the best administrator and general
He could've been on the small council and heir to Stannis if he wasn't up his own (and Renly's) ass
>stannisgay shidding and farding
my dude, when the second richest House puts all their chips into a Renly reign and you decide that's somehow not best for the economy, you are making a bad long term decision.
>when the second richest House puts all their chips into a Renly reign and you decide that's somehow not best for the economy
Robert had the support of the richest house and the realm still ended up in massive debt because the king was an idiot and Littlefinger was scheming master of coin. Under Renly the king would still be a lazy idiot and Littlefinger would almost certainly remain master of coin. Stannis was legit the only real option
>richest
>"richest"
>just Lannisters pretending the mines are still producing gold
That’s a show only plot line that made no sense and had no impact on the plot line outside of one throwaway line
George wrote it, bud.
Lannisters aren’t running out of gold, and even with their gold they’re still occasionally out-riched by people like the Velaryons—because exotically acquired gold is better than normie mined gold.
George literally confirmed they are out of gold, it's why Tywin is so bothered by the war because if it challenges the established power dynamic, it means his House isn't secure.
Show me the interview where he said this.
>episode written by....
TV Show and books are unique products, next argument
All the major plot points from the show are more or less going to be the same in the books, all the ones that don't deviate too hard. This is like saying Jon isn't a targ because it's only in the show.
Jon being a Targ is heavily hinted at throughout the series, there is not a single bit of evidence in any of the books the Lannister are running out of money
>he just insists Joff marry the Tyrells because uh...well...it has nothing to do with maybe the Lannisters not having as much money as they claimed!
Again, episode written by...
He insists Joffrey marries the Tyrell’s because at that point in the series it’s the Lannisters alone against the North, the Riverlands, and the Stormlands with the Reach having a massive army and food supplies. Paying off debt doesn’t come into play in the slightest
Stannis was a b***h who listened to a c**t for no reason
Based Truth poster
ONE REALM
ONE GOD
>kinslays most of his extended family
>burns his daughter to alive
Killing Renly was self defense and Shireeb burning was character assassination by D&D because they hated his character
I BEND THE KNEE
And the dozen or so Florents he burned?
Traitors all, also not actual blood family
>mfw I spot the rightful heir
>Despite his oath to the Mad King Stannis rises up to support his brother during the rebellion, spending a year starving at Storms End to protect Robert’s capital
>Renly immediately betrays and prepares to kill Stannis the second he sees the opportunity for social advancement
VOLUMES
>all three brothers are rebels and oathbreakers
Must run in the family.
I BEND THE KNEE
I BEND THE KNEE
I BEND THE KNEEE
I BEND THE KNEE
i bend the reeeeeee
I BEND THE KNEE!
I BEND THE KNEE
stannis hasnt died in the books yet, right?
No he is about to rape the Frey's at the Battle of Ice before besieging Winterfell.
The rules of succession were clear. Stannis was heir, Renly wasnt. It was real greaseball shit.
Yet stannis was fricking Melisande . Renly was engaging in sodomy, not sex
no he wasn't. stannis doesn't even think about sex, he fricks his wife once or twice a year and that's it.
Yet he made shadows with her you c**t
>renlygays could never
he had the gay
He didn't have the power of light on his side. Otherwise he could have banished that nasty little demon.
PANCAKE breasts
Do you guys think if Renly won and killed Stannis he’d regret it like Stannis regrets killing Renly? Or would he have not cared?
Given that Stannis was an unlikable tard who everyone thinks fell for black magic from a foreign religion I'd assume Renly thinks he's a bad day away from committing a Columbine
Stannis is bound to regret it because he's a man of character. Renly is a prostitute with a name, he would regret it from fear until the position was secured and rationalize it afterwards. When the next thief of the crown comes for Renly, he might have the perspective to understand what he did was wrong, but Stannis would know while performing the act.
Young, dumb and full of cum (his and Loras')
Gay
homosexual mind-control worm-parasites.
That crown is kino as frick.
Of course chuds like their fellow chud Stannis. But Renly remains the most righteous and chad pretender.
>righteous
What’s righteous about trying to murder your brother and nephews?
>What’s righteous about trying to murder your brother and nephews?
Good question.
Renly he killed in self-defense and doesn't seem to fully understand how the shadow babies work. Joffrey, Myrcella, and Tommen he knew weren't Roberts children before rebelling, Renly didn't know and was going to kill them anyways.
I'm ok with him killing Renly given he was in open rebellion. He doesn't really "know" Joff and co aren't Robert's though. And he did already try to kill Edric Storm.
>He doesn't really "know" Joff and co aren't Robert's though
By the dumb GRRM laws of genetics he did, which is the only thing that matters
>And he did already try to kill Edric Storm
What is the life of one boy against the tens of thousands who would have been saved ending the war?
>What is the life of one boy against the tens of thousands who would have been saved ending the war?
All.
Not an argument
If Davos didn’t save Gendry there wouldn’t be anyone to run the fabled haunted forest marathon in record time to go get Daenerys. Which woulda meant Jon died without showing the wight to Cersei, and Dany woulda just conquered kings landing and visirion wouldn’t have become undead. in other words David is responsible for some of the worst writing in television history
Renly was a Chad IN THE BOOKS. He's basically a clone of Robert but more charismatic and gayer.
Show!Renly is a mincing homosexual who needs Loras to tell him to make a claim for the throne.
It's the complete opposite, book Renly is a vain, empty man only interested in becoming king because of the aesthetics of power. GRRM was very explicit in Catelyn noting his army was holding feasts and jousts to display how completely unserious he was and unprepared for what he was getting into. Show Renly is borderline a progressive stand in for the writers and is shown to a good character killed for being good.
>GRRM was very explicit in Catelyn noting his army was holding feasts and jousts to display how completely unserious he was and unprepared for what he was getting into.
Kings Landing was starving and effectively under siege, and the Starks and Lannisters are beating the shit out of each other while he has an entirely fresh army. Caitlin is an idiot for thinking that's a bad course of action
He was the true king
Even Renly didn't believe that
yeah he did, cope
>Renly shrugged. "Tell me, what right did my brother Robert ever have to the Iron Throne?" He did not wait for an answer. "Oh, there was talk of the blood ties between Baratheon and Targaryen, of weddings a hundred years past, of second sons and elder daughters. No one but the maesters care about any of it. Robert won the throne with his warhammer." He swept a hand across the campfires that burned from horizon to horizon. "Well, there is my claim, as good as Robert's ever was.
>He swept a hand across the campfires that burned from horizon to horizon. "Well, there is my claim, as good as Robert's ever was.
thanks for proving me right
Read between the lines, he is saying Robert never had a claim and only took the throne through conquest and that he is doing the same thing.
Read between the lines, and remember Varys' riddle about power.
>and remember Varys' riddle about power.
Power resides in shadow demons?
well that too
>Couldn't even let Loras make him cum from anal into Margaery's twat
Renly is the biggest moron in the world
he would have been the best king, my lady, he was so good, he . . .
>we never got to see Fatman Manderly bow and kowtow to the Freys while secretly plotting to kill them and feed them their own family members
Sigh.
they stole it and gave it to Arya to be le badass
god I fricking hate their OC Arya
Did this work or was it just a coincidence?
Little bit of option A, little bit of option B
Me in the back.
If Renly had been smart, or had cared somewhat about the kingdoms he intended to rule, he'd have supported Stannis, easily won the war by his side, and then poisoned him in the aftermath. Stannis had no descendants besides a sickly girl with fantasy AIDS, Renly would have gotten the throne upon his death.
But only women poiso...wait actually that would work.
Stannis would've named him heir over Shireen, wouldn't he? Or didn't he even say it?
He promised to make him his heir over Shireen yeah, Renly is moronic for turning that offer down. The only reason not to accept it is how similar in age they would be so it would be a while before he becomes king but still, being heir basically gives Renly all he wanted. All the trappings of power with none of the duties.
Renly had no reason to accept it, for one it would have crippled what reputation he had.
He figured Stannis would roll over or be swept aside.
And to be fair, it took an insane deus ex machina for Stannis not to be annihilated.
>Renly had no reason to accept it
Other than the fact that his army led by Stannis and Randyl Tarly would easily beat the Lannisters alone, not to mention Stannis actually was the rightful king
>it would have crippled what reputation he had
His reputation as a usurper and would-be kinslayer? A younger brother doing their duty and helping their older brother claim their rightful throne would not have hurt his reputation it would have improved it.
>He figured Stannis would roll over or be swept aside
He is canonically a dumbass
>And to be fair, it took an insane deus ex machina for Stannis not to be annihilated
Stannis might have won the battle even without Shadow Demon tricks. Renly (moron he is) was planning on allowing Loras to lead a charge of all cavalry uphill staring into the rising sun against Stannis's heavily fortified position.
>Other than the fact that his army led by Stannis
he didn't need Stannis, Randyll was more than enough
>His reputation as a usurper and would-be kinslayer?
he was already crowned before the stormlords and the reach lords. setting aside his crown would be humiliating and appear weak to the tyrells, redwynes and others
>He is canonically a dumbass
stannis? well yeah, and that's why he canonically loses. he's a moron, imagine getting flanked by 100,000 men by surprise.
>Stannis might have won the battle even
lol, lmao even. scarcely 4,000 smallfolk militia backed by a handful of knights and freeriders against 20,000 knights
>he didn't need Stannis, Randyll was more than enough
Clearly not because he ignored Randyll and put fricking Loras in charge
>he was already crowned before the stormlords and the reach lords. setting aside his crown would be humiliating and appear weak to the tyrells, redwynes and others
The Stormlords were his bannermen, they would have supported him after joining Stannis just like they defected to Stannis when he died. They were in it for duty, money, and glory, they didn't actually care for Renly. The Reach would have b***hed but there was nothing they could do with Margaery already married to Renly. Renly and Margaery's child would have eventually become king so they would have still supported him anyways.
>stannis? well yeah, and that's why he canonically loses. he's a moron, imagine getting flanked by 100,000 men by surprise
Stannis is canonically the greatest military mind in Westeros. He was not flanked at the Blackwater either those were deus ex reinforcements.
>lol, lmao even. scarcely 4,000 smallfolk militia backed by a handful of knights and freeriders against 20,000 knights
t. Renly, that hubris in thinking his victory was guaranteed was why he left behind his main army to attack Stannis's entrenched position with only the 20,000 men of his cavalry.
>Clearly not because he ignored Randyll and put fricking Loras in charge
all that says is randyll is overkill lol
>The Stormlords were his bannermen
>The Reach would have b***hed
and their respect would have tanked for a man giving up his crown despite outnumbering his autistic brother 25-to-1. just too moronic to imagine taking stannis' offer seriously.
>Stannis is canonically the greatest military mind
that's why he got rekt by tyrion and outflanked in a surprise attack by a horde of infantry lol
>only the 20,000 men of his cavalry.
aka the killing blow of an army, ask stannis at the wall about that
The fact that Renly admitted to Ned that he coveted the throne was the first major red flag that showed how much of an idiot he was. If only he kept quiet, Ned probably would have accepted Renly's offer to lend him his troops in this scene https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx1azK3QxdU. But no. Renly is impulsive and arrogant as frick. He would have made a terrible king.
>Renly is impulsive
if he was he'd have crushed the lannister in weeks
Even if Shireen were official heir, once Stannis died no one would care. She was a dying little girl no one expected would live much longer. She would have no support.
He figured Stannis would roll over or be swept aside.
And to be fair, it took an insane deus ex machina for Stannis not to be annihilated.
In the books, he's an idiot being manipulated by his boyfriend's family. There's a big emphasis placed on how he treats everything like a big game, holding tournaments and feasts instead of strategizing, and mostly just sitting around looking pretty while the Tyrells make all the actual decisions. His childishness is emphasized in the famous "peach scene", where he mocks stannis at parley by tossing him a peach. That childish act later comes to haunt Stannis after he murders Renley.
In the show they tried to play up the idea that he's potentially a good king so that his death is more tragic, but it doesn't really work. Renley seems confident he could be an actual ruler, but doesn't display much sensible leadership beyond being open to working with the Starks as allies of convenience (which everyone else rejects on absurd personal grounds).
He was a disgusting homosexual and should have been killed long before he eventually was...
Renly's thoughts and plans are too complex and monumental for us to understand. He was planing to build a Jupiterian reign.
I should have been the king
Uncle, please sit
Chadmure should have gotten out of his seat and b***hslapped her for that, disrespectful prostitute
Parasitic anal infection.
He's a politician
>Problem: My brother is dying and my nephew who hates me an who I've spent years openly mocking and his psycho mother are about to be in charge of country
>Plan A: me and Ned kill Cersei secure Joffrey and dare the Lannisters to try anythi- Oh shit Neds a moron
>Plan B: OK its war Only way to raise a massive army is promise to make Mace father in law to the king. Yeah screw it why not I hate Stannis anyway
Renly's bid for kingship is more a developing plan to save his own neck. Would probably have worked too if not for heathen ginger women
catelyn was the most moronic character in the books
I should add that she's even more moronic than victarion, who was probably born with down syndrome so it's not really his fault
>Asha smiles at Victarion
>Victarion immediately assume she wants to frick
He's just moronic enough to win it all.
Reminder.
Is victarion really moronic? I mean not the smartest tool but not full moron
Not full moron just alittle slow. George wrote him to be "dumb as a stump" and "a dullard and a brute"
How would the reigns of each king look like if the whole "War of the Five Kings" wasn't a thing and the Others weren't the horizon? Personally, with Renly, I have the impression he woulod make for a bad ruler like Robert. I think he'll be wasteful and arrogant, but I think it'll at least be a relatively peaceful reign.
I don't know with loras in his ear, and ass, and Robert's military career being the backbone of his rule I think renly would start foreign wars or internal ones over stupid shit just for a chance to prove himself.
Would Loras really adovocate for that? I think upon securing the throne, I feel he'll try to make sure Renly doesn't do anything to endanger it. They would already have won the game, so why try and push?
Because he's an arrogant prick and soldier who would get bored really fast. People act like his suicide mission to dragonstone was his loss of renly but I think he's just a braggart and glory hound.
I think the stupidest "king" was balon by far. Like what was that guy really hoping to achieve? He wasn't going to suddenly go back to the old days and have this super strong navy and raider force that could openly attack the others with impunity. It was only a matter of time before the other kings stopped being distracted then the Iron Islands would have been wiped off the map and depopulated for good.
there was that one iron island king who took harrenhal and did pretty well for himself. he was probably trying to emulate that guy
He didn’t take it Harren the Black fricking built it, it was supposed to be his impenetrable fortress to rule his Kingdom of Rivers and Islands from and then Aegon the Conqueror showed up and melted him in it
He would have got away with it too if it weren't for those pesky dragons
The Iron Islands are so stupid. Like vikings had an actual culture and weren't just brutish invaders. I have no idea how a bunch of dipshit islanders on a bunch of rocks manage to do as much as they did, nor how a place like Westeros didn't just kill them off, or at least, made serious changes to that damnec archipelago.
idk why they chose to make him such a homosexual in the show. when in the books he wasn't one. I mean in the sense of him being effeminate