moronic writers think "subverting expectations" is clever. It can be when it's done in a way that is smart. But more often nowadays, it's just "let's disappoint viewers by not giving them what they want."
It's like I could give you a glass of water and then reveal that it was from the toilet after you drink it. That subverts expectations. But it's also going to piss you off.
When has this ever happened with the MCU. One of the biggest criticisms with the franchise is that nearly every entry ends with the main characters having to fight a bad guy to stop the countdown clock to a thing that will kill tons of people or the MC.
It's also a lot easier to disappoint viewers and intentionally do the opposite of what they want when you can simply claim that the only negative comments are coming from evil racist misogynist bigoted chuds who hate seeing a woman as a main character.
It makes for the perfect deflection of all criticism. Also helped along with a lot of critics and outlets not wanting to be labeled as bigots praising ti anyway because they assume they have to.
First, you're gonna need to provide more than two examples.
Anyway, they're taking an IP with a male MC and don't want to make a cartoon with a male MC.
To make sure the old fans at least give the show a chance, they keep the old MC in for a little, then swap them out for the "real" MC.
Free views, AND you get to take down the patriarchy!
If they did, it was probably because literally nobody liked the new girl.
[...]
It's not as common as OP is implying, but it's happened a few times. >reboot an old show with a straight white man as the protag >show the guy in all the marketing >episode 1, he's doing his hero thing the way the fans want and people are happy >episode 1/2 ends with the old protag dying, losing his powers, or getting captured >is replaced by a spunky feminist woman, often retconned as brown, lesbian or with funny hair >show then spends a bunch of time having the writers circlejerk the woman, often with characters outright stating they prefer the new one or that she's stronger than him emotionally and/or physically and call the old one a, quote, "misogynist" and/or "pig" >as viewer counts dip to nothing, the show's writers whine and complain on Twitter, slinging "-isms" and "-ists" everywhere as journalists spin something like "alt-right review-bombs this perfect show" >if the show gets a second season, they either try to force the protag and it flops completely, or they bring the old one back but the damage is done and view counts stabilize at some awful medium-low amount
He-man did this about as badly as you can imagine, ALL the early marketing was Heavy Metal Manliness, then WHOOPS.
Scott Pilgrim at least used the concept for fun and was way better received.
There is a very simple explanation for what is going on with Netflix and their output over the last few years.
The application process has a what looks to me like the most detailed menu asking for every diversity point imaginable that one must complete before they can finish applying to any major position. It claims to be voluntary but be real for a minute, you better fill it out and fill it out with what they want or else no one is ever going to even humor your resume or portfolio for a second.
They have been filtering anyone that does not fit the current trend mold so much that they now have a massive amount of employees that tank their own projects in protest of Dave Chappelle appearing on the service.
https://techcrunch.com/2021/10/21/netflix-employees-stage-a-trans-solidarity-walkout-pose-list-of-demands/
So of course their output is a mix of subvery with strong woman, or cartoons about 13 year olds in puberty, or Cuties. It makes sense when you see who they are hiring.
This.
Subverted expectations should be leading the viewer/reader/player into thinking they're experiencing a mid, run of the mill story that's just interesting enough to keep them going, then wham you hit them with a fricking freight train in the form of a much better story.
Perfect example of subverted expectations: Spec Ops: The Line.
You assume it's another run of the mill Call of Duty style soldier bro story, but turns out to be a deep dive into PTSD and schizophrenic delusions, the horrors of war turning fine upstanding young men into monsters.
>Perfect example of subverted expectations: Spec Ops: The Line. >You assume it's another run of the mill Call of Duty style soldier bro story, but turns out to be a deep dive into PTSD and schizophrenic delusions, the horrors of war turning fine upstanding young men into monsters.
Tell me how well did that game sell? Especially after the devs had a hizzy fit when people criticised their precious game.
>and then reveal that it was from the toilet after you drink it.
Uhm, you DO know that toilet was filled by a marginalized POC, RIGHT? You sound awfully close like a *eugh* Drump voter.
They don't even bait and switch properly anymore, just jerk themselves off. Not to spread Helluva Boss onto here, but perfectly acceptable subversions of expectations with good timing would do it wonders. Not beat off how coolio the dipshit main character is and then do mental olympics to justify his potential rapist qualities into being just an unironic sadboi.
What actually began it was the Hollywood millennial obsession with game of thrones. Genuinely well done subversion of expectations was executed by GRRM with the death of Ned, death of Khal Draigo, Tyrions trial, Red Wedding, etc. and it caused huge social buzz. That whole trend of group watching an episode in a bar with your fat trans friends and screaming/crying when something “shocking” happened. The Hollywood writers scenes became obsessed with capturing that effect again and shocking audiences with subversion of expectations/what a tweest. Once the writers ran out of GOT book material their attempts to mimic the shock of the red wedding ended up killing the show with plot stupidity because like most millennial writers they’re incompetent.
It became really popular with Star Wars TLJ, a meta-tantrum against Star Wars and its fans as a concept. Which while it killed Star Wars as a franchise was adored in Hollywood for its political messages and the way it pissed off the much despised fans. TLJ was the only Disney Star Wars movie to not have any reshoots or rewrites, because Kathleen Kennedy was so thrilled with it.
This of course is only tangentially related to OPs question. The obsession of subversion is only part of it. The protagonist switch is mostly done by writers/producers who want to make one thing but know it won’t succeed, so they have to market it as something else to trick audiences into seeing it. Nobody would see a She-Ra show, so you have to market it as He-Man. Nobody would see ugly Kathleen Kennedy self insert beat up Nazis, so you need Indiana jones and Harrison Ford out of the nursing home. Nobody was gonna watch the HBO show about blacks oppressing white peoples and fighting a Neo-KKK, so they just slapped the name Watchmen on it.
The bait and switch tactic can work. Barbie is one of the most “woke” movies ever made but was marketed as a silly fun movie for valley girls and wine moms. And it raked in billions.
Why is there such a loyalty to this narrative? South Park is fine with shitting on TFA but not TLJ. The shills are perfectly fine with shitting on TRoSW to defend TLJ's reputation.
>Takes off worked
Sure it did <sarcasm>. Can't wait until all the marketing shills disappear in a couple months. Just another body on the woke "kill male protagonist" dumpster fire.
>moving the goalpost from "you'll stop talking about it" to "you'll move on to your corner"
I accept your concession, enjoy scott pilgrim threads all throughout 2024.
>as people continue to make art and discuss the show.
The only thing people are going to remember from this are yurigays, troons and twitter lesbos overanalyzing the 3 second clip of Kim and Roxy kissing down to its last atom, and fujos watching 10 minute long "joke" of Todd and Wallace fricking.
It's pure shit, much like the rest of the show, but it's fanservice that panders to the noisiest portions of the internet, it'll have a longer lifespan than the rest of it.
What's with this bait-and-switch protagonist trend?
He-Man worked while Takes Off didn't.
He-Man was still prominently featured in every episode through extended flashbacks and Teela's entire personal motivation is Adam. It's a mediocre and very manipulative show, but He-Man is absolutely in it.
Takes Off was set to be the first animated adaptation of the comic after more than a decade and instead it was basically Scott Pilgrim: What If?..." with the main character actually totally gone from the story until the very ending
Yeah Revelations is a “meh” show but there’s a He-Man fight in every episode. Takes Off only has Scott in 3 out of 8 episodes. You can argue which approach is worse but you cannot say Revelations was really lacking that much of He-Man if you watched the show, also his name isn’t even in the title.
>featured in every episode through extended flashbacks and Teela's entire personal motivation is Adam. It's a mediocre and very manipulative show, but He-Man is absolutely in it.
By that sense Takes Off is also the same, because every episode is about Ramona trying to search for Scott Pilgrim, discussing with his friends how he was as a person, and more, including flashbacks. There's a movie made of him, then turned into a musical, and then the finale is all about him and his future self.
Takes Off at least keeps the tone of the original while Revelations spends a long time saying He-Man and everyone you love from the original series sucks
>By that sense Takes Off is also the same even though Scott's not in it while He-Man is
Eat shit you disingenuous c**t
I could get into the actual writing and how Teela giving a shit about Adam actually makes sense while Ramona caring so much about Scott is just to make the narrative happen, but you're just trolling either way >Revelations spends a long time saying He-Man and everyone you love from the original series sucks
Literally doesn't happen
>I could get into the actual writing and how Teela giving a shit about Adam actually makes sense
Anon she literally criticized him for being dead like that's a selfish act, it does not.
No, it’s not the same because He-Man gets actual fight sequences and dialogue. There’s like two flashbacks to Scott and one of which was something we already saw and the other is like 10 seconds long. Revelations absolutely does not say He-man sucks unless you take that out of context screenshot of Teela being mad at Adam for lying to her as her being reasonable, especially since she decides to go back to his side and reconcile.
>Teela's entire personal motivation is Adam
Only in so much as "WWAD". Which honestly given the stakes isn't really what would adam do and more what would any sane responsible person do.
Teela was done with the magic and the secrecy and the bullshit. The only reason she went on the quest was because Eternia dying due to the loss of magic would also lead to the death of the universe. She was never vested in seeing him again in Preternia nor bringing him back from it.
With Takes Off Ramona's whole reason in the story is to find and bring Scott back. In essence, even without his presence Scott Pilgrim was still the main driving force of the story.
She's done with all the magic bullshit because it made Adam lie to her and took him away.
Her whole arc is coming to terms with being in love with him
It's not a great show but it's all about He-Man and He-Man is in every episode.
>It's not a great show but it's all about He-Man
It really wasn't. Teela doesn't even think of Adam until they meet in Preternia. Hell, Kevin Smith even pokes fun at people who think it is in the last fight when Adam goes "this isn't about us" at Skeletor.
Anon she has a flashback to him being a badass literally every episode
stop making me defend mediocrity
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Anon she has a flashback to him being a badass literally every episode
She doesn't. It was just in episode 3, and it was because her sidekick asked her to tell a he-man story. Said sidekick even questions the story because of Adam's puns. >stop making me defend mediocrity
Stop misremembering and making up bullshit about it then.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>stop misremembering
no u
7 months ago
Anonymous
>he thinks i'm going off memory
It doesn't take a lot of effort to punch it up on 2x speed and skimming through the track bar to find glimpses of he-man captain tardo.
>strong male protagonists for centuries >culture thrives >they start getting replaced >multiple entertainment industries suddenly start crashing and burning
hmm...
>You already have a 1000+ year back catalogue
My favorite cartoons are the medieval ones, did you know that Da Vinci was an animator?
He's such a great polymath.
No matter how hard you try to train them by pop culture, women will never be heroes. Rather than trying to make the unheroic desirable, you should be inculcating the value of strength in young men.
>No matter how hard you try to train them by pop culture, women will never be heroes. Rather than trying to make the unheroic desirable, you should be inculcating the value of strength in young men.
Debunked!
Inuyasha
Sailor moon
Bakarina
Gundam the witch from mercury
Violet evergarden
Magic Knight Rayearth
My Neighbor Totoro
Spirited away
Frieren: Beyond Journey's End
Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind
>You already have a 1000+ year back catalogue. Don't be greedy.
Then why buy any new products? Hollywood can either make products for me, or rely on woman and minorities to fund them.
First, you're gonna need to provide more than two examples.
Anyway, they're taking an IP with a male MC and don't want to make a cartoon with a male MC.
To make sure the old fans at least give the show a chance, they keep the old MC in for a little, then swap them out for the "real" MC.
Free views, AND you get to take down the patriarchy!
If they did, it was probably because literally nobody liked the new girl.
>bait-and-switch protagonist trend
The what? I'm genuinely ignorant
It's not as common as OP is implying, but it's happened a few times. >reboot an old show with a straight white man as the protag >show the guy in all the marketing >episode 1, he's doing his hero thing the way the fans want and people are happy >episode 1/2 ends with the old protag dying, losing his powers, or getting captured >is replaced by a spunky feminist woman, often retconned as brown, lesbian or with funny hair >show then spends a bunch of time having the writers circlejerk the woman, often with characters outright stating they prefer the new one or that she's stronger than him emotionally and/or physically and call the old one a, quote, "misogynist" and/or "pig" >as viewer counts dip to nothing, the show's writers whine and complain on Twitter, slinging "-isms" and "-ists" everywhere as journalists spin something like "alt-right review-bombs this perfect show" >if the show gets a second season, they either try to force the protag and it flops completely, or they bring the old one back but the damage is done and view counts stabilize at some awful medium-low amount
He-man did this about as badly as you can imagine, ALL the early marketing was Heavy Metal Manliness, then WHOOPS.
Scott Pilgrim at least used the concept for fun and was way better received.
doesn't change the fact that, because of marketing, everyone expected HE-MAN doing HE-MAN things and not Teela dicking around with her totally not girlfriend.
not to mention how salty she was while meeting Adam and
Kyleanon made a better He-man/She-ra continuation than whatever that was.
This, one of the main problems was that Teela b***hes way too much, just like the director, talking about that butthole, didn't he openly admit he didn't care about He-man and that he was doing the show just because they offered him to direct it?
>didn't he openly admit he didn't care about He-man and that he was doing the show just because they offered him to direct it?
Kevin Smith said that several years ago and forgot that people have actual proof him saying never liked He-Man show. Come year 2020-2021 and suddenly he was the biggest fan of He-Man there ever was and he watched the orginal series. So yeah.
She's so changed that she may as well be new, and being alive =/= going back to being the main character.
For all intents and purposes, they probably wanted He-Mxn alive just to use him as a strawman for one thing or another.
Scott Takes Off was BLOM wanting to do more stuff with the characters, and with him saying it was a different story before release, I’m willing to bet the bait and switch was all on Netflix’s marketing team.
He-Man was headed by people who hated the source material and had to use the IP, understandable since the OG He-Man is also a huge pile of crap.
>I’m willing to bet the bait and switch was all on Netflix’s marketing team.
The faithful first episode up until the point of his fight with Patel begs to differ. BLOM knew what he was doing but I liked Takes Off even if it wasn't what I expected.
>bait-and-switch protagonist trend
The what? I'm genuinely ignorant
Reboot a long running IP which has always been about a straight white male, market it as a faithful adaptation, then kill/sideline them in the first episode and make the actual story about the love interest dealing with their loss and the protagonist's absence, then bring them back right at the end.
>he did nothing with Knives
What? Knives has a whole arc about self discovery in Takes Off. It’s completely different from the Comics and Movie where she’s just obsessed with Scott the whole time
>Yeah, five minutes of it.
The finale literally couldn’t happen without her and Stephen because they wrote the score for the musical. Out of all characters to say they didn’t do new things with Knives isn’t one of them. You could have at least said Envy
Danganronpa V3 did this to and people are still debating about it. Granted I see the frustration when they bait and switched the first female protagonist with another soft boi
It's not just the protagonist. It's common for a show or comic to be presented as one thing when it's something entirely different. Reading the early Poppy Opossum strips you'd t never guess it was going to laser focus on politics and the lesbian relationship and Helluva Boss LOOKED like a show about IMP killing people before it became 100% about gay relationships. This is a deliberate decision by the writers to try to lure you on so you may hang around to see the story they actually want to tell.
You must be new here. It's a webcomic that was popular on Cinemaphile for a while before the writer got tired of writing it, turned it into an illustrated novel and then abandoned it altogether.
The worst thing about Helluva Boss when doing that was removing the aspects that would have worked and if they wanted to subvert expectations then they pick the most moronic courses of action possible. Blitzo if he was to be likable should be wanting genuine intimacy and more romancing his employees than waiting for them to let him to ruin their buttholes. Or even better, let the cast be a bunch of depraved morons like Its Always Sunny and have them be amusing for being sick fricks in the art style of a PS2 platformer.
>Get more content in the Scott PIlgrim universe with the Scott Pilgrim characters in supplement to the original comic as opposed to the same story being rehashed beat for beat for the fourth time
Show is the definition of a pleb filter.
You are being disingenious in this argument, of course people want to see things adapted instead of a pseudo sequel with time travel.
Imagine you where watching Harry Potter for the first time and instead of giving you an adaptation of the book they gave you a weird time travel story that changes the events of the book? You'll be pissed.
>You are being disingenious
I'm not being disingenuous at all. I'm aware of people's irrational desire for getting the exact same content again, and I'm being completely honest with my contempt for that mentality. If I like the author of a piece of medium, and I like the characters in it, I'm more interested in getting a new story if that's what the author wants to tell. Now I have both the comic and a new story. You're booty-blasted because you aren't getting a rehash. I find that laughable and thus, I'm laughing at you.
I find you fascinating, tell me is this same contempt apply to everything you experience? Do you get annoyed when a movie adaptation of a book covers what happens in the book?
What do you think of the 80s Mario movie do you think is good because it tells a new story that reflects the artistic vision of the directors instead of rehashing the plot of the game?
7 months ago
Anonymous
>artistic vision of the directors
The directors of that film aren't the creators of Super Mario, so your example already falls flat on its face like an anime schoolgirl late for class, not even getting into that it's adapting from a medium that doesn't emphasize narrative to begin with.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Creator or not it was an artistic vision to make Mario a Cyberpunk dinosaur adventure.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Creator or not
My argument was solely on the basis of the creator's vision, so your counterpoint is irrelevant.
7 months ago
Anonymous
And they created the movie
your semantic pedantry convinces no one
7 months ago
Anonymous
Wait, what happened to >Creator or not
Holy shit, at least keep track of your moronic arguments lol.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>here's a second rebuttal to the thing someone else said, I'm ignoring what you said because it's devastating to my non-argument
Ok
7 months ago
Anonymous
What you said is irrelevant to my argument, so I don't care.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Not the anon you're talking to but you sound like a pretentious schizo that continues to change goal posts. You're not trying to find the correct answer, you're looking for the answer that makes you right. I've met plenty of douche bags like you irl and every single one of you is obnoxious and disconnected from reality. I have no stake in this conversation, just wanted to let you know you're a homosexual.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Well the creator of the movie had a vision didn't he?
7 months ago
Anonymous
And that vision was antithetical to the creator of the original games. Still a cool movie in my opinion but that has nothing to do with that guy's argument.
NTA but the game is a nice novelty, but it doesn’t really count. And the Movie’s good, but it rushes through the plot (and cuts some stuff like Lisa) for screen time.
An ideal anime series would’ve told the complete story, maybe some added filler for more character moments.
STO is good, but it should’ve come after a real adaptation
Here's the thing though, I don't think it's feasible for to adapt the story into an anime series. I felt similarly about the series of cancelled Bone adaptions that were floated around in the past. I think a limited Graphic Novel series is the best way of delivering these stories. Any movie or TV show would inevitably have to truncate details and would end up feeling shallow in comparison. I even feel that way with the movie. You just end up with an ultimately inferior version of the story now tagging along.
[...] >exact same
The Movie and the game both rush through and cuts out large portions of the story. None of them tell the exact same story of the original books, the anime could’ve changed that
Like I just said here, the anime absolutely would not have changed that.
People who think SP would be better as a cartoon are people who didn’t actually read the comic and just watched the movie first. Even if there was a “faithful” cartoon adaptation I can guarantee you it still wouldn’t be like the comic.
Are we just going to forget how much of anime is directly adapted from Manga? Accurately enough to the point where you can compare scenes to their original panels?
No reason to think it can’t be done for Scott Pilgrim
7 months ago
Anonymous
First half of the movie did this and it ended up with a shit ton of jokes falling flat because they didn't translate mediums well. Similar thing happened with Azumanga Daioh.
7 months ago
Anonymous
A live-action movie probably would have actually been better suited for this alt-reality story. The best jokes in the movie are wholly original stuff like Scott jumping out the window
7 months ago
Anonymous
I think both the movie and the TV show were at their best when they were diverging from the comic.
7 months ago
Anonymous
BLOM specifically stated if he were to revisit SP he would change things for years now. That’s not really a good comparison because most Mangaka aren’t really involved with the Anime because they usually run concurrent with the comic and nowadays making filler arcs isn’t really a thing anymore.
7 months ago
Anonymous
why should anyone give a flying frick what that hack wants
writing anything people liked was an accident and letting him ruin it is a crime
7 months ago
Anonymous
Because unlike most anime, Takes Off has new scripts with the input of the original author. The only anime that I can think of off the top of my head that has new material with the author’s input is Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure and a lot of it is minimal things.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Because unlike most anime, Takes Off has new scripts with the input of the original author
And I just told you that guy sucks and him making something people liked was an accident.
Him being involved was a bad thing.
There it is lol. >The author shouldn't get to decide what to do with their characters!
unironically yes
George Lucas syndrome is way too common
7 months ago
Anonymous
>him making something people liked was an accident.
This statement is moronic because people liked Seconds AND Takes Off
7 months ago
Anonymous
>people liked Seconds
lol nobody read Seconds and I sure as shit don't see a fricking Seconds movie
Most people don't even know BLOM made Scott Pilgrim, they think Edgar Wright did
7 months ago
Anonymous
Seconds can be summed up in a half hour special. Not really a movie.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Since when does not getting a move = nobody liked it. By that metric nobody liked The Sandman until it’s Netflix adaptation decades later.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Seconds is on the same level of quality and notoriety as Sandman!
lol get the frick out of here
7 months ago
Anonymous
Ok so any beloved indie comic that doesn’t get a movie is not well liked
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Seconds >Beloved
7 months ago
Anonymous
You're trying to pretend American Graffiti was popular in anywhere near the same realm as Star Wars
Stop it
7 months ago
Anonymous
>reading comprehension
7 months ago
Anonymous
This would be the opposite of George Lucas syndrome, since Lucas had more external oversight in the original trilogy, as opposed to BLOM where he had full control over the comic but had more collaborators working with him on this project.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>George Lucas syndrome
BLOM didn’t release new editions of the original comic that overwrote the previous publications that added new scenes and redraws of panels. Call me when stuff from Takes Off is retconned into future publications of Scott Pilgrim comics
7 months ago
Anonymous
It's funny that people will literally pretend the prequels don't exist
7 months ago
Anonymous
He's insecure about of how is old work wasn't feminist enough
7 months ago
Anonymous
source?
7 months ago
Anonymous
There it is lol. >The author shouldn't get to decide what to do with their characters!
>exact same
The Movie and the game both rush through and cuts out large portions of the story. None of them tell the exact same story of the original books, the anime could’ve changed that
>You are being disingenious
I'm not being disingenuous at all. I'm aware of people's irrational desire for getting the exact same content again, and I'm being completely honest with my contempt for that mentality. If I like the author of a piece of medium, and I like the characters in it, I'm more interested in getting a new story if that's what the author wants to tell. Now I have both the comic and a new story. You're booty-blasted because you aren't getting a rehash. I find that laughable and thus, I'm laughing at you.
Thing is, people really wanted an animated adaptation the entire time. The live movie is kind of weird and goofy at times. And then Adult Swim put out an animated short, and then everyone really wanted an animated movie or series that does a much better job of adapting the books. People were claiming for a decade how it would be so much better as a cartoon etc, and then Netflix finally announced that they were making one so it got everyone's decade long hopes up really high
..only to be let down even more when it turned out to not be the perfectly accurate 1:1 adaptation they were waiting so long for.
So yes, they did in fact want a third incarnation of the exact same story they already knew.
>they did in fact want a third incarnation of the exact same story they already knew
Yes, I'm aware of this, as I've said multiple times. Doesn't change the fact that it's a dumb desire.
People who think SP would be better as a cartoon are people who didn’t actually read the comic and just watched the movie first. Even if there was a “faithful” cartoon adaptation I can guarantee you it still wouldn’t be like the comic.
>wants a direct adaptation >get told you don't actually want the same story and if I do I just have to reread the comics >still want a direct adaptation >some homosexual who praises a subversion tells me I don't know what I want
7 months ago
Anonymous
you already had what you wanted all along. It's called the fricking comics that have existed for two decades. go read them and frick off already.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Some homosexual
Excuse me, that's a poorly paid marketing agent pajeet. Not even the gays will defend this tripe.
>literally says that he wants a direct adaptation >somehow this makes him a fricking child that has no idea what he wants
7 months ago
Anonymous
What he wants is something the creator has no interest in making. If a creator forces themselves to work on a project they're uninterested in, you'll end up with an objectively poor product. What he wants is what would be a poor product, but he has no idea of that fact.
7 months ago
Anonymous
The creator doesn't have to be involved in an anime
In fact they typically aren't
7 months ago
Anonymous
Which is how you end up with shit like the Azumanga Daoih anime or the first season of Kekkai Sensen which shit all over the source material because the creators had no inherent understanding of what they were adapting. If you think a work of art is separable from the visionary, you don't have as much respect for the work as you think you do.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>shitting on Azumanga >calling BLOM a "visionary"
7 months ago
Anonymous
>reading comprehension
I'm shitting on the anime adaption. The manga is a 10/10 work of comedic genius that the anime butchers with shitty pacing and timing. >calling BLOM a "visionary"
Apparently you think so too, since you're so desperate to see the story he wrote retold.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>I am a colossal homosexual with no taste
7 months ago
Anonymous
How did Azumanga Daioh the animation shit on the source material? A good portion of it is directly adapted from the manga
7 months ago
Anonymous
It's bait.
It's be decent bait if not for the visionary remark
7 months ago
Anonymous
Because the jokes were translated poorly and padded out with dead air. Seeing Osaka trip like a moron is funny. Seeing it played back over slowly on repeat for two minutes kills the joke.
>I am a colossal homosexual with no taste
Your words.
7 months ago
Anonymous
It's fairly overrated but by no means a bad show. I don't remember them doing the "instant reply" joke, but they might have. There are still a lot of memorable moments that it shares with the manga.
7 months ago
Anonymous
I'm referring to shit like this
In the manga this was a simple 4 panel gag and then it moves on, here it gets dragged out to nearly a minute, despite not being funny enough to warrant it.
Don't forget >They fleshed out the ex's! (they didn't) >O'Malley didn't want to retell the story! (who cares?) >A-at least the animation was good! (it wasn't)
>it wasn't
Cool, then it's no big loss the original wasn't animated then, right?
7 months ago
Anonymous
>He's still posting
7 months ago
Anonymous
So are you
7 months ago
Anonymous
Then the creator should hand the work to someone else so THEY could adapt it.
And that's why Harry Potter 2001 was a massive failure
You silly sausage, you're a fridge stuffed with nothing but potatoes and onions
If ignorance is bliss you're the happiest person alive
This attitude.
This one right here.
This is why the MCU is failing. When creatives and corporate bean counters alike think the audience MUST fit a certain formula and rail against them for refusing to consoom, surprisingly enough they end up creating bad products.
It's that simple. It's like making an adaptation of Hamilton, suddenly switching it to be a plot about a random milkmaid, and then being surprised why people are disappointed.
>>God forbid an author want to tell a new story with the characters after telling the same story 3 times
Yes. you want to make something NEW then make something NEW instead of taking the cushy safe job of working on an establish IP with an established fanbase that has supported it and have established expectations. It's not the audiences job to give you even the chance to explore your vision that completely contradicts everything and trying to blame the audience is just a cheap stunt because you're a hack loser who didn't have the balls to even try his own thing and needed to hide behind the mask of established brand.
George Lucas also made the prequels, what's your point?
7 months ago
Anonymous
The point is that considering the author created the "brand" you hold so sacred and the "established" fanbase, the author has very much the right to do what he wants with the brand and the characters. You disagree, because you're a mindless consumer that only sees art as a product to be consumed and not an expression of one's ideas. If you think the show is bad on its individual merits that's fine. You don't though, you're just booty-blasted because they aren't getting a rehash, which is hilarious.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>the author has every right to...
No one said he didn't you fricking clown
He has every right to shove a thousand wieners up his ass too, I don't have to like or respect it.
It's time to stop posting, you've done nothing but embarrass yourself repeatedly.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>No one said he didn't you fricking clown
>>>God forbid an author want to tell a new story with the characters after telling the same story 3 times >Yes.
Anyway, you should take a break anon, you sound upset.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Anon do you not speak english? Do you not know the difference between "this is a shit thing to do" and "he CAN'T do this?"
You seem pretty stupid but I'm willing to chalk it up to a poor grasp of the language
Also you missed.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>"this is a shit thing to do" and "he CAN'T do this?"
Splitting hairs. And nothing shit about making something new with your own characters. Not everyone cares to see the Wayne's or Uncle Ben get shot every other year.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>me not understanding how words work is splitting hairs!
7 months ago
Anonymous
>the author has very much the right to do what he wants
And so doesn't the audience. But you know what the big difference is? The author needs the audience more than the audience needs the author. Everyone can do what they want but at the end of the day the author is the one looking for an audience not the other way around so don't spit out all that garbage when it cuts just much the other way.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Yes, you're free to have moronic opinions, and I'm free to call you a moron for having them, glad we're on the same page
7 months ago
Anonymous
>the author has very much the right to do what he wants with the brand and the characters.
Counterpoint: George Lucas made the prequels.
Authors can do whatever they want, yes, but the audience is not forced to like it, because what really matters is the objective quality of the media the author is making.
Want to know why the OG trilogy was good? it was because there were people with Lucas that told him "NO", being the creator of something doesn't make you immune to ruining the thing you created, being the creator of something doesn't mean that everything you do with that thing is good, being the creator of something doesn't mean that your "artistic vision" is the right thing for the thing you made.
The prequels are what happens when an author is left with their own means in a room full of yes-men after an ego boost the size of Saturn, the same for Metal Gear Solid 4. Sometimes, to create great art, you need someone to tell you that your vision is shit.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>What really matters is the objective quality of the media the author is making
I agree. But like I said, most people here aren't mad about the quality of the show, they're mad because it's not a rehash, and thus worth mocking. Sorry if you disagree.
7 months ago
Anonymous
If people want a rehash, then let them have a rehash. How is that a difficult concept to get?
7 months ago
Anonymous
It's not difficult. But it is moronic.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Why is it moronic?
7 months ago
Anonymous
Because getting mad that you now have another story featuring the characters you supposedly love in addition to the original story is moronic. >B-but it's a bad-
Nope, you already established quality wasn't a factor in your disgruntlement.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Sometimes, stories aren't meant to have "another story set in the same world". The story of Scott Pilgrim is that, "the story of Scott Pilgrim", if you do something else it's no longer "The story of Scott Pilgrim", and at that point, why not do something completely original? >Nope, you already established quality wasn't a factor in your disgruntlement.
I never said anything about the quality of the show, so it being bad is still on the table, what i said is that quality is what matters, which can also apply to takes off.
7 months ago
Anonymous
If someone says "you shouldn't take your child's phone away" and I respond, "The parent has the right to take the child's phone away" the implication is not that I thought the other person was saying that it should be illegal to do so. I'm arguing the merits of the action. Sorry the nuances of conversation evade you.
>Sometimes, stories aren't meant to have "another story set in the same world
Who gets to decide that? And why? >why not do something completely original
Because you want to do more with the characters in the established universe but don't want to repeat the same story beats.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>but what about what BLOM wants?
Who fricking cares?
7 months ago
Anonymous
If you don't care, why do you care about Scott Pilgrim in the first place?
7 months ago
Anonymous
Maybe because he likes the original story, you know, the one that matters.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Who wrote the original story?
7 months ago
Anonymous
Anon, do you think Brian Lee O'Malley is a comic book?
Do you not understand that Scott Pilgrim the comic and Brian Lee O'Malley the hack are two different objects?
7 months ago
Anonymous
Anon, do you think Brian Lee O'Malley is a comic book?
Do you not understand that Scott Pilgrim the comic and Brian Lee O'Malley the hack are two different objects?
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Separate the art from artist
This has always been a moronic mantra.
7 months ago
Anonymous
So no, you don't understand that a comic book and a human being are two different things.
Because you're a moronic child.
Last (you)
7 months ago
Anonymous
What do you think about Harry Potter?
7 months ago
Anonymous
Never read it. I do agree with Rowling on the trans issue though, if that's what you were really asking. Sorry if that's not the answer you were expecting ¯_(ツ)_/¯
7 months ago
Anonymous
>I do agree with Rowling on the trans issue though
You realize that people who thinks like you would wish for nothing but having your guts out of your belly, right?
7 months ago
Anonymous
Ironic that the kinds of people who would hate the views of
Never read it. I do agree with Rowling on the trans issue though, if that's what you were really asking. Sorry if that's not the answer you were expecting ¯_(ツ)_/¯
share a commonality with people groaning about this scott pilgrim stuff : they're both seething against things that the creator had intended.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>they're both seething against things that the creator had intended.
No, people who hates J.K Rowling, does it because of hr personal beliefs, and they think that those beliefs somehow also taints her works, even if they are good.
On the other hnd, we don't care about O'Malley's views or actions, we just didn't like how he handled his work and we would have preferred if he did a faithful adaptation instead.
Not the same thing, buddy.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>No, people who hates J.K Rowling, does it because of hr personal beliefs
Wasn't talking about Harry Potter. Was talking about her beliefs, as a Christian, that the creator aka God made man and woman. And trannies are seething at her believing men that God made do not menstruate.
7 months ago
Anonymous
/misc/ chuddies actually came out against Rowling now because she’s pro-Israel
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Christian >Pro-Israel >Anti-Trans
Pretty based ngl
7 months ago
Anonymous
it's almost like no one does or should give a flying frick about Rowling outside of the most popular work of hers
Can you imagine the shit that would fly if they made an animated Harry Potter and he got killed by Voldemort at the start of the show?
7 months ago
Anonymous
i think an alternate-universe show about harry getting killed/kidnapped and guys like Neville stepping up in his wake would do pretty well. Call it The Boy Who Died
7 months ago
Anonymous
Are you kidding? That's awful.
7 months ago
Anonymous
If you let people know it's going to happen it's not a good analogy
You'd advertise it with some of the most recognizable scenes of Harry at the Dursley's animated interspersed with flashes of new scenes with no context
Then in the actual show you'd get up to the owls giving harry the letter and then a cultist that followed the owl kills Harry, end episode.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Maybe, but I can separate current author from one 20 years ago
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Separate the art from artist
This has always been a moronic mantra.
[...]
like scott pilgrim comic
'ate the movie
'ate the show
'ate brian lee o malley
simple as
7 months ago
Anonymous
>The story of Scott Pilgrim is that, "the story of Scott Pilgrim"
It's not really just the story of Scott though because of all the other characters developing along the way, with some of their developments like Stephen's on and off relationship with Julie only for him to come out gay in the end, had nothing to do with the story or with Scott at all.
It's just the downfall of the franchise being named "Scott Pilgrim" instead of something like 'Hipster life in Toronto'. Harry Potter has this same issue where game makers can't do any of it set in modern times without attaching his name to the title even if he barely makes an appearance, like Harry Potter Hogwarts Mystery and Harry Potter Magic Awakened.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Its easy to give audiences what they want, but that'd be moronic
Holy shit, the people making media really think like you. That's "based moron" levels of logic, I think I respect it.
7 months ago
Anonymous
You know a significant portion of EEnE fans would have wanted the show to end with Edd and Eddy becoming a couple. Obviously, fans know best after all.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Obviously, fans know best after all.
Who said that? You? Listening to the fans too much can be just as bad as not listening to them at all. A creator needs to find a balance between "fan service" and realizing a large portion of the audience just wants to see the characters frick.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Fans should be listened to only in so far as the feedback is constructive in the context of how or why the story should play out, not what should play out in the story. Fan feedback worth listening to is: >This character could've done more in the story >This revelation didn't work and ruined the story because so and so >X character isn't as sympathetic as you think they are
Fan demands that should be ignored include: >These characters should get together because I want them to >Bring back this character you killed off even though his story has concluded >Tell this story again instead of this other story
7 months ago
Anonymous
You're wrong for one reason: If the fans are disappointed; that's it. As I said, its about balance. You don't have to listen to fans, but remember that there is a reason DC keeps bringing back The Joker. There's a reason why shows like Santa Inc failed.
And sure, fans may be with the show now; they were for Steven Universe and Adventure Time. And as we all know, people speak SO highly of those shows nowadays, right?
I guess my point is simple: consequences have actions, pimp.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>they were for Steven Universe and Adventure Time >Adventure Time >The show that ended by hooking up Bubblegum and the vampire because the fans wanted it
lol
>New fans fallacy
Did it gain new fans or just alienate the existing fanbase? He-man, Star Wars, insert current year sequel here, the end result is always the same: Franchise death
>Franchise death
This is a meaningless moniker, because it implies that a Franchise NEEDS to go on forever. That a story can't be one and done. Particularly ironic in this case, because you're implying that this franchise in question should go on in perpetuity just singing the same song over and over.
7 months ago
Anonymous
And fans still think the show is shit. Outside of shippers, I guess, but its not like anyone respects them. Oh, and you should know by now: lesbian pairings aren't made "for the fans". Its made by the writers who want to wank about being progressive.
And thanks for sublty saying I was right about steven universe, but again, it really seems like everyone's turned on them nowadays, right?
7 months ago
Anonymous
NTA but most people outside of Cinemaphile still like Adventure Time, I think you guys forget this place has the minority opinion on most things
7 months ago
Anonymous
Not where I'm looking; people have been saying Adventure Time fell off around the time Steven Universe was new.
7 months ago
Anonymous
ye it's pretty much agreed both of those shows fell off with gumball regular show still being good.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>More fallacy
If you say this wasn't created to make money, sequels, merchandise, and all that capitalistic greed, I'd call you a liar. The fact that I gotta bring this old meme out just makes it the more stupid.
A failure is a failure. And Failure leads to death of an IP. If Brian wanted to sunset the series, he would have denied Netflix and instead had them adapt his other comics. But he didn't.
7 months ago
Anonymous
If you want the franchise dead, why direct it? Why cheer for something to be corrupted and destroyed so it can "end"?
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Anon says that by not rehashing the same story, the result is "franchise death" >Thus anon's view is that the optimal state of a franchise is an eternal purgatory of regurgitating the same thing over and over
Scott Pilgrim before this show came out could have been considered a "dead franchise" and that was alright because the story had been told. It has now been temporarily revived because the author had a new story he wanted to tell. Now that that's done it can (and should) go back to being dormant unless there's an actual novel idea to do something with it.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>franchises shouldn't go on for too long telling the same story >but it's good that this franchise can be squeezed dry with a total remake >it's bad for a franchise to die >but it's good to when it happens after subverting the story for a quick buck
He's right. You are disingenuous.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>but it's good that this franchise can be squeezed dry with a total remake
How is doing something new with the characters "squeezing it dry" any more than rehashing the story you already told? >but it's good to when it happens after subverting the story for a quick buck
As opposed to rehashing the story for a quick buck. All you're doing is saying >Thing I want honest >Thing I don't want dishonest
Which you're free to say, but don't try and obfuscate the fact that it's what you're saying
7 months ago
Anonymous
>How is doing something new with the characters "squeezing it dry" any more than rehashing the story you already told?
Because you're using the brand as a mask to sell instead of just making the story it's own actual thing. >As opposed to rehashing the story for a quick buck.
As opposed to subverting the story for a quick buck. What's the moral difference here?
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Because you're using the brand as a mask to sell instead of just making the story it's own actual thing.
You're moronic. The story in the show is explicitly written to supplement the original story. There's no mask. BLOM felt that he was interested in revisiting these characters and did so. >What's the moral difference here
One takes significantly less creative effort than the other.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>supplement
It's practically it's own thing. You could watch this, call yourself a "fan" and not know anything about the other works of the series. Not a good thing. >less creative effort
Effort is not the sole mark of what makes for good entertainment. Something slaved over and revised heavily by an artist can be total garbage compared to what another can effortlessly put out. Just because it can take more effort doesn't make it the better option.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>not know anything about the other works of the series
lol >Effort is not the sole mark of what makes for good entertainment
You set the argument in the Bailey of "what's more moral" and now you're retreating to the Motte. And yes, a work that a creator puts effort into is always better than one that a creator passionlessly churns out, out of obligation.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>a work that a creator puts effort into is always better than one that a creator passionlessly churns out, out of obligation
When people enjoy a Breen or Wiseau film, they're doing it as a joke, anon. If you want to make yourself look like an idiot, then go ahead and defend the works of Paul W.S. Anderson while you're at it.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>And yes, a work that a creator puts effort into is always better than one that a creator passionlessly churns out
Not that I'm siding with that anon but It's not always passion v obligation. Sometimes it's just passion v talent, like the conflict in Amadeus.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Fair enough
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Tell this story again instead of this other story
You lost me at this, it's not entitlement to want a faithful adaptation when clearly we don't have one >Comic
More people watch series than reads comics >Movie
It's not entirely faithful and misses a lot of characterization of the secondary characters and it also have an OC ending. >Game
The only way to buy the game is a badly made port of the game, and according to what people on steam says, they have problems with Ubisoft connect which doesn't let them play it. it also have the same issues of the movie and it cuts the development of secondary characters. >Adult swim short
It's just that, a short, not a full series adapting the comic.
Considering the above, there's no problem in wanting a faithful adaptation of the comic in anime form, considering that we don't have that, and it would be maningful since that would be the way for people who don't read comics to finally experience this particular story.
7 months ago
Anonymous
A loud niche of fujos flicking their collective beans isn't a "significant portion" of the fanbase.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Perhaps you're right. Perhaps a very vocal group of people isn't truly representative of the audience reception.
7 months ago
Anonymous
You know what that is fair, I would say Adaptation instead of Rehash but tomatoes tomatos, here is the thing, the trailers don't sell this as a sequel to the comic or something different, they sell it with scenes that where in the OG comic. The advertisement makes you expect a rehash not something different. And that bait and switch is what gets people mad.
7 months ago
Anonymous
I can kind of get being annoyed with that, but I don't see it as cheap or dishonest, I'd say it's misguided at worst, since the intention was to surprise people who are familiar with the comic, though at the expense of people who hadn't read the comic.
7 months ago
Anonymous
people seem both mad that it sucks and mad that it's not what they wanted/were promised
you just seem like kind of a dumb c**t
>Yes. you want to make something NEW then make something NEW instead of taking the cushy safe job of working on an establish IP with an established fanbase that has supported it and have established expectations
Ah yes of course. Just like how Adam West was a dark and grim crimefighter who would hang the mentally ill by their necks and not have any issues with doing so, just like the batman comics before.
Oh wait.
Did the commercials and advertisement for Adam West batman make the serious out to be like it was going to be a grim and dark take? No? The series presented itself the same way start to finish. It didn't hype itself one way and then SUBVERT expectations.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Ah yes, just like how the Scott Pilgrim trailer advertised itself as a 1:! adaptation by...
Having Lucas Lee skateboarding on anything but a crappy railing and fighting skateboarding papparazi ninjas.
And Matthew Patel appearing in his pirate costume as well as some leathery matrix coat, as well as a three piece suit in front of a helicopter while flanked by ninjas.
As well as Gideon dual wielding.
And Knives Chau helping with the forcefield, in her fighting clothes.
And Ramona blocking a giant fist with her hammer.
And Envy getting crowded by ninja papparazi.
Or the Anti Kiss field that was totally a thing in the comics.
All of this shit totally happened in the comics, who could ever forget any of that.
7 months ago
Anonymous
The Masters of the Universe trailers were literally nothing but He-man jumping around on Battlecat while it blasted I NEED A HERO!! in the back ground.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Cool bruh. Now how is that related to this trailer not being 1:1 from the comics? The he-man shit you keep fellating wasn't doing 1:1 shit from the old cartoons either. Hell, one of the first glimpses of "he-man" was him wearing a dust cloak and hood riding a robot horse, which was never a thing in the old cartoons.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>this again >pretending it wasn't a meta tweest based on false advertising when without that it's not a tweest at all
ok, he gave up the ghost, you can all stop pretending you're having an intellectually honest discussion with this festering anal c**t
his next line is "but Scott takes off! It says it right there in the name!"
7 months ago
Anonymous
Anon, that image is straight from the trailer. You're gonna have to come up with one hell of a mental gymnastics routine to explain how it's "um ackshually he can do that and still be a faithful adaptation".
7 months ago
Anonymous
fma 2003 is different from the manga but it's still about the elric brothers trying to get their bodies back. the scott comic was about scott becoming a better person and fighting the exs, the anime is nothing about that. imagine if fmab focused on humanising the homunculi into good guys instead of being about the elric brothers, that's basically what the scott pilgrim anime did.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>if you just cover broad strokes it's totally the same
But in the anime Scott still learns to be a better person and Scott still fights and beats all the exes.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>if you just cover broad strokes it's totally the same
never said it's the same but to add to that fma 2003 atleast give it's seld enough episodes to do what it need to do and a movie where as, takes off clearly doesn't have enough episodes. >But in the anime Scott still learns to be a better person and Scott still fights and beats all the exes.
he doesn't even beat patel dude. >But in the anime Scott still learns to be a better person
the only thing he learns is stuff about the other scott and what he did to knives was bad. even than we don't see that progress he just becomes good when he comes back.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Anon, Scott literally goes and kills everyone except Scott and Ramona, forcing them to respawn back in the past.
How is that not "Scott fighting the exs"? >the only thing he learns is stuff about the other scott and what he did to knives was bad.
He learns all the lessons that Scott did by watching the musical because Ramona wanted Scott to know about it instead of just letting it get erased and forgotten.
Like I said, if you just paint the premise in the broad strokes you still get what "the scott comic was about" because they do the shit you went on about, even with methods, circumstances (and Scotts) being different.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Sounds like a bunch of legalese bullshit.
7 months ago
Anonymous
It's no more "legalese bullshit" from "fma2k3 edward loses alchemy because he travels to a different world where he can't get alchemy that's powered by WW1 but brotherhood edward loses alchemy because he makes a bargain with the gate of truth to give it up so he can come back to armestris."
7 months ago
Anonymous
Old Scott is just Scott in the future anon.
You should not be allowed to write. Absolutely.
7 months ago
Anonymous
i said scott not old scott moron. >Like I said, if you just paint the premise in the broad strokes you still get what "the scott comic was about" because they do the shit you went on about, even with methods, circumstances (and Scotts) being different.
what are you talking about? we aren't shown him learning that through own decisions and actions he just watch a musical but we shown that he learned from that musical you are making the assumption the he did, when it wasn't shown because the show ends.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Old Scott is just Scott in the future anon.
7 months ago
Anonymous
they became different scotts the moment scott got taken to the furture by old scott.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>they became different scotts
They didn't. Old Scott before the last fight talks about his memories being overwritten by changes in Scott's past, and how he still ended up with Ramona in spite of the shit he tried to pull.
Some threads when the anime came out even pointed out how asinine Scott Pilgrim's time travel shit is because it made use of both branching timelines approach and back to the future's "single timeline that gets overwritten by changes in the past" approach.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>anime
Cartoon.
7 months ago
Anonymous
ye and just like the first time he time travelled they became separate scotts. so when he time travelled came back hes no longer the same scott and that was the scott that beat the exs. aslo memory swapping doesn't change the fact how we the audience don't see how they ended up being where they are. this is like steins gate but if we never got to see the progress that occurs after the first time travel trip before it loops back to the events before the first time travel trip.
7 months ago
Anonymous
It's like you don't understand how moronic the time travel in the show was. He fought the exes, won, then went and plucked himself from the past to stop himself from winning, yet still was the one who fought the exes and won. Then he gets changed by the past, yet somehow still is the one that knows he went back to kidnap himself and plant the anti kissing shit, which is a memory that should have been erased by the past Scott going and not doing the shit that turns him into such a jerk.
The long and short of it is that the setting being moronic with time travel is how Scott still fought the exes and won, yet is also the Scott that never got to fight them.
>You are being disingenious
I'm not being disingenuous at all. I'm aware of people's irrational desire for getting the exact same content again, and I'm being completely honest with my contempt for that mentality. If I like the author of a piece of medium, and I like the characters in it, I'm more interested in getting a new story if that's what the author wants to tell. Now I have both the comic and a new story. You're booty-blasted because you aren't getting a rehash. I find that laughable and thus, I'm laughing at you.
Think of what the demon slayer anime did for the franchise. It brought a ton of new fans on board. It also brings a new experience to manga fans because it, enhances the visuals, adds fleshed out visualisations for how the author imagined for the scenes playing out. You get to hear the characters voices, see them move , hear the explosions. It's more immersive than ink and paper. If you like a written story, you will want to see it in the best possible format. Movies and games water things down, to make them fit their restrictions. There's nothing wrong with a faithful definitive adaptation
The source material will always be superior in any story worth a shit. Demon Slayer was a mediocre manga that got an adaptation that let people look at pretty ufotable but look at something like the FSN adaptations? They have single-handedly ruined a lot of anime-onlies perception of a character because it turns out that being able to have space for a character's thoughts is important.
Even then in the case of Scott Pilgrim Takes Off, the title was different from the movie and what the book series as a whole is usually referred to as due to said movie and BLOM had stated before this was something different because he didn't want to tread old ground. A typical adaptation only really has the creator around to greenlight things the showrunner wants to do, and even then sometimes the level of involvement is so minimal it's literally just telling them "Follow the scipt, you're good to do whatever else". Takes Off will get new fans even while being made for old ones because it's already getting talked about by those old fans, attracting attention to it and making others curious but pretending like it should've been a 1:1 job when there's not really anything else on the horizon. Plus considering Netflix is pretty fricked up when it comes to animation, BLOM and the team probably figured even if they wanted to do a straight work one season is probably all they'd get so they wanted to do the story BLOM was interested in doing.
>New fans fallacy
Did it gain new fans or just alienate the existing fanbase? He-man, Star Wars, insert current year sequel here, the end result is always the same: Franchise death
All I'm saying the massive success of anime proves that people love straight adaptions and you don't need a massive rewrite to "sell it" the same story with enhanced sensory detail, color, sound, fluid movement, voices is all that's needed. This is a western problem
lol I remember when Revelations and that Thundercats Roar came out and both times Cinemaphile pretended that their original shows were anything but cheap Filmation garbage
The Netflix MOTU show pisses me off for a different reason. It falls into that same >Let's depower the hero and then see the adventures of normal guy doing normal things until the final episode when we finally get to see the hero guy being cool and heroic with powers again!
That the last three Dr Strange runs have done and the last Green Lantern run did.
I'm not reading over the top scifi fantasy to see normal non-powered guy struggle with normal shit. I'm reading to see a man god punch meteors back into space, I want to see space cops shoot black holes shut and then go brawl with eldrtich abominations. If I want to see normal human guy struggle I would go read some Gotham shit.
The preoccupation - should we say obsession? - with replacing the extraordinary with the ordinary is an old problem with postmodernist writing. Some say it stems from a lack of confidence in the heroic and the exemplary, but I think the problem is more obvious: no imagination on the part of the writer. Or, nearly as bad, predictable courses of imagination that simply boil down to that good old word, "deconstruction", because it takes less effort to dissemble something that was already created than to invent and develop an entirely new cast and story.
Why is Scott Pilgrim still generally well-received despite the bait-and-switch, while He-man's is universally hated?
>Why is Scott Pilgrim still generally well-received despite the bait-and-switch, while He-man's is universally hated?
Scott Pilgrim is still a young enough franchise that it can afford to play with the formula, even when the results are divisive. He-Man and the Masters of the Universe needed a shot in the arm several yesterdays ago to stay relevant, and Kevin Smith pitched MOTU Revelation as not only the return of the saga, but an epic, apocalyptic power ballad continuation of the original Filmation series (though he predictably walked back any connection to the OG show on Twitter like two weeks before airtime), helmed by a studio that's turned out some of the best Western 2D animation in the last ten years, scored by Bear McCreary, and star-studded with a voice cast that would drop the jaw of every sci-fi and fantasy nerd born in the last 40 years.
For all that bombast, he turned in a lazy retelling of Death, World Without, and Return of Superman that limped into a second half where he somehow managed to make a battle of barbarians and sorcerers and tech-soldiers for the very fate of the universe feel like horseplay on a high school playground. McCreary's score is never given a chance to distinguish itself over the sub-MCU-tier dialogue, which the voice cast recorded in isolation during COVID.
Basically, MOTU needed Revelation to be a runaway hit, and ended up with a fart in the wind.
Very simply, because it makes you discuss it
Every time there’s a heartwarming, traditional, straightforward adaption you all ignore it, won’t view it and let it fail. Every time they “subvert expectations” in an ugly way you will watch, discuss, outrage and debate so more people see it, watch it, discuss years past expiration and lead to more views and revenue for Netflix.
If this was a 1:1 adaption you’d all say it was cool and then never bring it up again. Now everyone knows there’s a twist and need to subscribe to Netflix to find out
From what I have seen it's more a contempt for anything that came before on part of a lot of modern writers. They always view any older material as outdated, shallow, surface level shit that they could do miles better if THEY were allowed to write the series. So they overhaul everything because they were never really fans and assume technically no one was ever a fan because X series was always so stupid and simple. It just needed a REAL writer to finally make it into art!
This is just the modern version of 10-15 years ago when everyone thought amazing, deep, adult writing was writing all the characters as dead and in purgatory. Post 2018 media is main character vanishes, some low level side character steps up.
I wonder what is going to be the deep, insightful, cool adult method everyone will imitate in all things a few years from now...
Or maybe, just maybe they could just give us what we wanted and what they advertised instead of blatantly lying for them to sweep the rug from under us.
>Every time there’s a heartwarming, traditional, straightforward adaption you all ignore it, won’t view it and let it fail. >heartwarming, traditional, straightforward adaption
There it is. Then hollywood should stop making ~~*adaptations*~~, rehashed sequels, etc. Also >heartwarming and traditional
Lol, lmao even. If you really were earnest about respecting the integrity of everything that is "traditional" you wouldn't be making shitty sequels in the first place, you'd just keep the original as it is. It's okay to say that it's really all about making money. People are righteously upset at all of these big name studios taking little to no risks when it comes to coming up with original, creative stories. That's what happens when all of your new hires are all "family friends' kids" and all part of the same clique in calarts. Talentless hacks.
>Every time there’s a heartwarming, traditional, straightforward adaption you all ignore it, won’t view it and let it fail.
Jojo's Bizarre Adventure and anime in general are the biggest counter argument to your bullshit argument. People LOVE faithful adaptations.
Majority of people who watch Jojo have never read the Manga, so they wouldn't know (or care) if it's faithful or not. Case in point, Soul Eater, MAGI, Hellsing, FMA 2003, and many others are all acclaimed despite diverging from the source material.
>Soul Eater, MAGI, Hellsing, FMA 2003, and many others are all acclaimed despite diverging from the source material.
The only reason why these adaptations diverge is because their manga hadn't been finished during production. The original plotlines in those adaptations came out of necessity. They were also actually good, unlike Takes Off. However, their quality doesn't diminish the demand for an accurate adaptation, that's why FMA Brotherhood exists.
Anime adaptations with different story content make up very few anime. DBZ, YYH, and even modern anime like My Hero Academia, Jujutsu Kaisen and Spy x Family are some of the biggest titles out there, with active viewer-bases that read the manga, then watch the anime when it airs on TV.
>The only reason why these adaptations diverge is because their manga hadn't been finished during production.
That doesn't really stop them from going to the source material. A topical example here is Scott Pilgrim itself. The final book came out 7 days before the movie, which means that the script for how the movie ends was made well before the final book was done.
It's pisspoor writing for an author to not have a clear view of how their story ends, and revealing it in one medium that came after the original does not take anything away from said original because they can portray how it gets there in a different manner visually, or make references to it in a "remember the thing in the thing" kind of manner. But none of that happens in any of the works that anon cited.
...Anime is made to sell the manga, ya idiot.
Why would they do the ending in the anime if they haven't gotten to it in the manga?
7 months ago
Anonymous
Anime is made to sell the most money out of the franchise.
Case in point Goblin Slayer anime is ahead of the manga now and it retains an acceptable level of deviation from the light novel.
>The final book came out 7 days before the movie, which means that the script for how the movie ends was made well before the final book was done.
>In the film's original ending, written before the release of the final Scott Pilgrim book, Scott gets back together with Knives. O'Malley objected to the first ending because he felt it would dilute Knives's character. After the final book in the series, in which Scott and Ramona get back together, was released, and with divided audience reaction to the film's original ending, a new ending was filmed to match the books, with Scott and Ramona getting back together.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>After the final book in the series, in which Scott and Ramona get back together, was released, and with divided audience reaction to the film's original ending, a new ending was filmed to match the books, with Scott and Ramona getting back together.
You mean test audience right? I distinctly remember watching this on opening night and the ending was him ending up with Ramona.
>Soul Eater
Deviated because it caught up with the manga.
>MAGI
Still largely remains faithful to the manga's story.
>Hellsing
Deviated because it caught up with the manga, and got remade when the manga finished.
>FMA 2003
Deviated because it caught up with the manga. It got remade when the manga was finished. The remake being, at the very least
, on par with 2003.
>Majority of people who watch Jojo have never read the Manga
Very true, I have not read the manga. In fact, I even ask a friend who is a bigger fan got me into the anime and said I don't need to read the manga. The anime is better than the manga as it cuts a lot of the fluff.
>The final book came out 7 days before the movie, which means that the script for how the movie ends was made well before the final book was done.
>In the film's original ending, written before the release of the final Scott Pilgrim book, Scott gets back together with Knives. O'Malley objected to the first ending because he felt it would dilute Knives's character. After the final book in the series, in which Scott and Ramona get back together, was released, and with divided audience reaction to the film's original ending, a new ending was filmed to match the books, with Scott and Ramona getting back together.
Not true ever since they started the adaption I always saw people say they can't wait for certain parts to get animated this is happening now with jujutsu, but when the anime fails to keep up visually some will read the manga like mha for example, got clowned on for its visuals compared to the manga so people ended up reading the manga. the same thing happened with one punch man season 2, it fell off visually so most one punch man fans are reading the manga instead of waiting. Bleachs currently season pretty much only being watched by people that have read the manga.
Scott Pilgrim is only a ten year old franchise that still has a lot of fans. Plus it's for an older crowd.
While MOTU is a 40+ year old franchise that overwhelming majority of the fans grew out of three decades ago, has long since been forgotten by the public at large, and only really has aging action figure collectors as a fanbase these days.
The preoccupation - should we say obsession? - with replacing the extraordinary with the ordinary is an old problem with postmodernist writing. Some say it stems from a lack of confidence in the heroic and the exemplary, but I think the problem is more obvious: no imagination on the part of the writer. Or, nearly as bad, predictable courses of imagination that simply boil down to that good old word, "deconstruction", because it takes less effort to dissemble something that was already created than to invent and develop an entirely new cast and story.
[...] >Why is Scott Pilgrim still generally well-received despite the bait-and-switch, while He-man's is universally hated?
Scott Pilgrim is still a young enough franchise that it can afford to play with the formula, even when the results are divisive. He-Man and the Masters of the Universe needed a shot in the arm several yesterdays ago to stay relevant, and Kevin Smith pitched MOTU Revelation as not only the return of the saga, but an epic, apocalyptic power ballad continuation of the original Filmation series (though he predictably walked back any connection to the OG show on Twitter like two weeks before airtime), helmed by a studio that's turned out some of the best Western 2D animation in the last ten years, scored by Bear McCreary, and star-studded with a voice cast that would drop the jaw of every sci-fi and fantasy nerd born in the last 40 years.
For all that bombast, he turned in a lazy retelling of Death, World Without, and Return of Superman that limped into a second half where he somehow managed to make a battle of barbarians and sorcerers and tech-soldiers for the very fate of the universe feel like horseplay on a high school playground. McCreary's score is never given a chance to distinguish itself over the sub-MCU-tier dialogue, which the voice cast recorded in isolation during COVID.
Basically, MOTU needed Revelation to be a runaway hit, and ended up with a fart in the wind.
Scott Pilgrim got a resounding "it's ok" from critics (fresh does not mean good, it means not-bad) and didn't even break the top ten for netflix shows the week of its release
It's as much of a fart in the wind as MOTU was
There are already articles going up begging people to give it a chance despite the bait and switch
Ultimate it comes down to the showrunners
1) not actually liking the property itself
and
2) realizing that "Teela and the Masters of the Universe" or "Ramona Flowers vs. the World" would not do as well as a show titled He-Man/Scott Pilgrim.
Thing is, would they not do well because of recognition alone? Or because not that many people are genuinely interested in a series starring a side character? It kind of sounds like it was set up for failure by shoving the side character into the spotlight.
Calling them that wouldn’t even make sense because they both have the original protags taking over again in their back halves. MOT:R has Adam reconciling with his father and him being the catalyst for Evil-Lynn realizing Skeletor cares more about fighting Adam than their love. Takes Off has future Scott completely losing it to the point of realizing he couldn’t emotionally cope properly which helps Ramona realize she’s been running away the whole time which causes her to make a new timeline to make sure she’s emotionally open to Scott.
Don't forget >They fleshed out the ex's! (they didn't) >O'Malley didn't want to retell the story! (who cares?) >A-at least the animation was good! (it wasn't)
>>They fleshed out the ex's! (they didn't) >Ignoring everything with Matthew, Roxy, and Gideon
Yeah ok you can not like this but saying that this show didn’t add more to their characters is legitimately lying about the source material and the show
Roxy is the only ex whose character was expanded
That you actually pretend Matt and Gideon got development and not a bunch of crappy jokes tells me how honest you're willing to be about the show
>characterization out the window once it gets in the way of what they think is cool
But they still wiil go "...Then Barman does this and this etc, as they are taking the role of batman just going to wild hijinks that only child can come up with, pretty similar than Silver Age Batman comics or the Adam West series.
And you just know that if this bait and switch was done to say the new Tomb Raider show, everyone would be crying Misogyny. Like say Lara dies in the second episode and the show follows that Nerd she had a crush on in the first game.
Then Lara comes back by the end and says to the Nerd, "No, you truly are the Tomb Raider." and she fights off a secondary threat while Nerd battles the main threat with Lara's iconic dual pist...bow and arrow.
You can't have a competent straight white male protagonist in CURRENT YEAR. They have to be evil and/or hilariously incompetent, preferably both. Oh, and bonus points if they're constantly being upstaged by women and/or minorites.
Wait, why isn't anyone watching cartoons anymore? Ah, they must all be bigots, that's it!
Not only that, but the bait and switch not only benefited the narrative, the bait and switch was the narrative. The game is about media manipulation and how we act acording to the truths we hold to. We were lied to as much as Raiden, Fortune, Ocelot, or even Snake himself. The outrage we felt when playing Raiden is part of the story, and is part of what the patriots wanted to archieve in game. That element is diluted nowadays because everyone knows and loves Raiden thanks to Rising Revengeance, but tha doesn't take away the brilliance in narrative that is this game, even if it was unintentioal because Kojima only added Raiden because he wanted the fujo audience.
I guess masterpieces sometimes are made by accident..
Plus, don't you play as Snake in the first level? Like, not as a interactive cutscene where snake walks around and talks, but as an actual level where you stealth around, beat enemies, and then fight a boss.
Teela was so fricking bad in Revelations, it bewilders me how someone could look at a draft of her in it and think it was a good idea.
Like holy shit she's offensively c**tish and a piece of shit in it.
I am sick to death of the constant vilification of the fans. Like it's somehow always our responsibility to eat up whatever slop the studios want to put out and if we don't like everything we're just being unreasonable. It is not the fandoms job to like you. It's not even their job to be fair. The creators are the ones asking for our patronage not the other way around. It's on them to get us invested.
It’s an entitlement attitude with millennials, they’re very combative and view everything in a political lens so if you don’t like their material you’re the problem
It's literally just whoever signs on to a project deciding they're going to do something NEW and EXCITING with it instead of the simple job everyone wants them to do. Creatives are constantly up their own ass about the work they do having to be special and unique and significant.
They're like a chef being asked to make a burger but they think that's too passe' so they so some avant-bullshit deconstruction that nobody wanted with kelp pearls instead of lettuce and a bechemel instead of cheese
>What's with this bait-and-switch protagonist trend?
For at least 5 years we've had tons of male-oriented franchise reboots and sequels where the main male character is supplanted by a female character, surely you can't have noticed this just now ?
It is a corporate push for 4th wave feminism, fueled by Blackrock investment threats.
This is the reason Budweiser decided to use a man pretending to be a 14 year old girl as a spokesperson, and then after market destroying backlash, refuse to acknowledge that they made a massive mistake.
Pretty much every franchise in the western world has at least one female in it, right?
I don’t think there is any that has none.
Even Regular Show eventually had Eileen join the main cast.
When you post this shit, you're just screaming to everyone that you're arguing in bad faith. The issue isn't "a twist". The issue is that people want to see a character being great, and those people get screwed over.
And then, fans of that character will get belittled by people like you making false comparisons. People are unironically told "Who cares if you barely got SCOTT PILGRIM in the SCOTT PILGRIM show?" and other nonsense. Of course, you don't care. You're one of the people making moronic arguments to put others down. Frick off and stop poisoning the discourse just because you disagree with the opinions of others.
>Who cares if you barely got SCOTT PILGRIM in the SCOTT PILGRIM show
Exactly. It reminds me of this old shitty adult swim showI watched called "the Venture Bros". It barely features the Venture Bros, and instead is about this moron in a butterfly suit and this gay midget and his albino boyfriend.
>Exactly. It reminds me of this old shitty adult swim showI watched called "the Venture Bros".
And that's where you went wrong. Firstly, I seem to remember the actual brothers being featured enough in the show to justify the name, but you're missing a few steps here regardless:
1.) I said the main issue is that people didn't get to see the character they liked in his own show...Did you like the actual Venture Brothers that much? I didn't; I actually liked the butterfly dude more.
2.) The Venture Bros is inherently satirical. Parodying comic books and such. If you're expecting a straight forward show from them, you're an idiot.
3.) You don't understand anything about the shit you're talking about if you're comparing VENTURE BROS to SCOTT PILGRIM, holy shit.
>Firstly, I seem to remember the actual brothers being featured enough in the show to justify the name
They were treated like secondary characters practically from start to finish
>They were treated like secondary characters practically from start to finish
Where they there, though? As in, in the show? And doing things that effected other things? Unless the answer is "no, they weren't there", you seem to be trying to move the goal posts.
It reminds me more of this book called Moby Dick where they spend more time going on about making soup out of turtles and the nature of the whaling industry than showcasing the aforementioned Dick.
Calling it "Scott Pilgrim". You know, at least "Masters of the Universe: Revelations" removed He-man from the title. Still lies about it being a sequel to the 80's show when its anything tho.
>Calling it "Scott Pilgrim".
But Scott Pilgrim is in the show and is the main reason the story moves forward.
You sound like a moron that whines about Metroid having that name because of Metroids only ever appearing near the end of the game. Or whine about a movie being named Jaws because of how little screen time the shark gets.
Marketing shills are all the same. See you in six months when the paychecks stop coming.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>reee stop defeating my nonsense with the same old logic!
You have yet to debunk Scott being the main driving force of the story because you can't.
Keep seething moron.
7 months ago
Anonymous
It's been debunked. Long since been debunked. Shooter in the grassy knoll debunked.
>But Scott Pilgrim is in the show and is the main reason the story moves forward.
Ah, you're arguing in bad faith. I might have known if I cared.
>NB4 "You cared enough to repsond ;););)
Yeah, I did. To respond. I didn't care about your point and that's clear by the context of my comment.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Uh huh. Go on then and tell me how the story isn't about Ramona going off and looking for this guy that she went on one date with because she just loves him now.
Go ahead, I'll wait.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Go on then and tell me how the story isn't about Ramona going off and-
No. I didn't say I would, and I'm under no obligation to type multiple paragraphs that you won't accept anyway. Just accept the fact that you don't agree, and I'll accept the fact that you're disingenuous.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>can't disprove it >just call them disingenuous
Concession accepted then.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Accept your delusions if you like. Whatever makes it easier for you. The fact is that I told you I wouldn't waste my time typing sentences for you to ignore. That's reality.
What's with this bait-and-switch protagonist trend?
Ive always seen "bait and switch" marketing as a sign when they have little to no faith in their product so they have to lie through their teeth and essentially false advertise to get people into it. I liked Scott Pilgrim back in the day so I wouldve gave an honestly marketed Ramona show a chance but this just give a bad impression and it was literally He-man all over again
Final Fantasy XII did something different.
The "main character" the game promoted and the one who you play as the most is actually just the comic relief, who is also the audience surrogate and fangirl bait.
And he doesn't do much to the plot, except giving the player someone more relatable in a world of fantasy anime politics that may become confusing.
It's like if The Phantom Menace made Jar-Jar Binks the protagonist from which we see the story unfold, even when he doesn't do much to the story.
To sum up this and every other thread: >I'm mad because the show sucks, I wanted an adaptation of the comic and I was misled >You weren't misled even though if that were true no one would be mad and this thread wouldn't exist! Also you have no right to have any desires, only BLOM gets to want things!
There, now you can be free of this garbage topic.
Whenever I see any new animation with a globohomosexual brand attached to it (ie, Netflex, Amazon, Hulu, etc.), I always make a mental note that those globohomosexual companies will either frick up, retcon, or complete censor parts or all of the source material for a higher ESG rating so they can get higher tax breaks, while alienating their own fans.
>Netflex, Amazon, Hulu,
I'm almost not surprised by this type of "reinterpretations" of the material with the company that produces it (Netflix in this case)... it seriously seems like they do it on purpose and by force; And I daring to say, and may to sound kinda conspiranoic, that underneath the controversy it seems that they want or try to send the propaganda that female side-chara is better than the main protagonist. (And I clarify, I only mention the despotic way they execute this in entertainment, and not the characters who have really stood out without resorting to these current forms)
Don't make sense, really. Conan already had a cartoon come out that deviated from the source material that Cinemaphile didn't have a meltdown about. Though admittedly that's probably because the Cinemaphile that would have had a meltdown about it wasn't even born when it came out.
>Netflex, Amazon, Hulu,
I'm almost not surprised by this type of "reinterpretations" of the material with the company that produces it (Netflix in this case)... it seriously seems like they do it on purpose and by force; And I daring to say, and may to sound kinda conspiranoic, that underneath the controversy it seems that they want or try to send the propaganda that female side-chara is better than the main protagonist. (And I clarify, I only mention the despotic way they execute this in entertainment, and not the characters who have really stood out without resorting to these current forms)
>It's a conspiracy!
It's never a fricking conspiracy
It's always a confluence of a bunch of shitty chaotic individual decisions
You're seeing more and more reboots that pull this shit because studios will only greenlight reboots with recognizable IP's but the current crop of writers that got in during the previous writers' strike are a bunch of fart-sniffing c**ts that won't "lower themselves" to doing a normal reboot. They have to leave their shit-mark on anything they make even if they're just hired to make 80's Toy Property Reboot 23.
The simplest way to do that, and the one that appeals most to insular LA artist circles, is to make the most prominent female into the protagonist.
Writers will have characters/scripts that they want to sell, but because it's shit nobody buys it. Once they've infiltrated a writers room for a popular IP, that's when they insert their character/script ideas and take over the show/movie. How many times have we seen "Character A" marketed as "A's show" only to be hit over the head with "Character Z" who ultimately doesn't matter in the long run but will still be around to spout off the writer's politics.
Both these shows were produced by Netflix and had similar adverts, plot twist, and story beats with the main characters dyingvatcthe start to created a deconstruction of the story.
Are Netflix producers just bruteforcing these kind of samey scripts onto their shows?
Writers want to tell their own stories but what sells is reviving some shit from 1-3 decades ago. So you get sold nostalgiabait that has nothing to do with the original work beyond the characters’ names.
The entirety of multimedia batman contradicts this shit though. The 66 Adam West campy shit was received well in spite of "shit from 1-3 decades ago" being a vastly darker tone. Likewise the Bruce Timm animated series was very well liked in spite of, and this is using Conroy's own familiarity with the material, the previously famously known shit was campy West stuff.
Then after BTAS you had The Batman, where while different in animation it carried the same dark tones that BTAS did, and wasn't liked anywhere near BTAS. Following that you had The Brave and the Bold which not only embraced camp but mixed in the zanier adventures Batman has had, and people ate that shit up.
moronic writers think "subverting expectations" is clever. It can be when it's done in a way that is smart. But more often nowadays, it's just "let's disappoint viewers by not giving them what they want."
It's like I could give you a glass of water and then reveal that it was from the toilet after you drink it. That subverts expectations. But it's also going to piss you off.
>moronic writers think "subverting expectations" is clever
This. The MCU and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race
imagine unironically thinking the MCU subverted anyone's expectations.
It was an excercise on how to fill a check list.
That's a funny way of spelling Frozen
>MCU
>Subvert expectations
When has this ever happened with the MCU. One of the biggest criticisms with the franchise is that nearly every entry ends with the main characters having to fight a bad guy to stop the countdown clock to a thing that will kill tons of people or the MC.
Mandarin caused a great deal of butthurt
It's also a lot easier to disappoint viewers and intentionally do the opposite of what they want when you can simply claim that the only negative comments are coming from evil racist misogynist bigoted chuds who hate seeing a woman as a main character.
It makes for the perfect deflection of all criticism. Also helped along with a lot of critics and outlets not wanting to be labeled as bigots praising ti anyway because they assume they have to.
w-why do i want to frick vaaty??
Goddamn do I want a new game with Actual Vaati and not the demon eye
There is a very simple explanation for what is going on with Netflix and their output over the last few years.
The application process has a what looks to me like the most detailed menu asking for every diversity point imaginable that one must complete before they can finish applying to any major position. It claims to be voluntary but be real for a minute, you better fill it out and fill it out with what they want or else no one is ever going to even humor your resume or portfolio for a second.
They have been filtering anyone that does not fit the current trend mold so much that they now have a massive amount of employees that tank their own projects in protest of Dave Chappelle appearing on the service.
https://techcrunch.com/2021/10/21/netflix-employees-stage-a-trans-solidarity-walkout-pose-list-of-demands/
So of course their output is a mix of subvery with strong woman, or cartoons about 13 year olds in puberty, or Cuties. It makes sense when you see who they are hiring.
Sounds based. Might drop a subscription.
>
Bad bait.
This.
Subverted expectations should be leading the viewer/reader/player into thinking they're experiencing a mid, run of the mill story that's just interesting enough to keep them going, then wham you hit them with a fricking freight train in the form of a much better story.
Perfect example of subverted expectations: Spec Ops: The Line.
You assume it's another run of the mill Call of Duty style soldier bro story, but turns out to be a deep dive into PTSD and schizophrenic delusions, the horrors of war turning fine upstanding young men into monsters.
>Perfect example of subverted expectations: Spec Ops: The Line.
>You assume it's another run of the mill Call of Duty style soldier bro story, but turns out to be a deep dive into PTSD and schizophrenic delusions, the horrors of war turning fine upstanding young men into monsters.
Tell me how well did that game sell? Especially after the devs had a hizzy fit when people criticised their precious game.
The idea of subversion relies on falsely predicting those expectations and pre-empting for them. Woke writers view themselves as being psychic
>and then reveal that it was from the toilet after you drink it.
Uhm, you DO know that toilet was filled by a marginalized POC, RIGHT? You sound awfully close like a *eugh* Drump voter.
They don't even bait and switch properly anymore, just jerk themselves off. Not to spread Helluva Boss onto here, but perfectly acceptable subversions of expectations with good timing would do it wonders. Not beat off how coolio the dipshit main character is and then do mental olympics to justify his potential rapist qualities into being just an unironic sadboi.
pulling a bait and switch through marketing is the lowest of the low
if you need meta knowledge for the twist to work it's a fricking shitty twist
I think it actually is clever
The problem is that it's (rightfully) getting lumped in with the female protagonist trend people are sick of.
What actually began it was the Hollywood millennial obsession with game of thrones. Genuinely well done subversion of expectations was executed by GRRM with the death of Ned, death of Khal Draigo, Tyrions trial, Red Wedding, etc. and it caused huge social buzz. That whole trend of group watching an episode in a bar with your fat trans friends and screaming/crying when something “shocking” happened. The Hollywood writers scenes became obsessed with capturing that effect again and shocking audiences with subversion of expectations/what a tweest. Once the writers ran out of GOT book material their attempts to mimic the shock of the red wedding ended up killing the show with plot stupidity because like most millennial writers they’re incompetent.
It became really popular with Star Wars TLJ, a meta-tantrum against Star Wars and its fans as a concept. Which while it killed Star Wars as a franchise was adored in Hollywood for its political messages and the way it pissed off the much despised fans. TLJ was the only Disney Star Wars movie to not have any reshoots or rewrites, because Kathleen Kennedy was so thrilled with it.
This of course is only tangentially related to OPs question. The obsession of subversion is only part of it. The protagonist switch is mostly done by writers/producers who want to make one thing but know it won’t succeed, so they have to market it as something else to trick audiences into seeing it. Nobody would see a She-Ra show, so you have to market it as He-Man. Nobody would see ugly Kathleen Kennedy self insert beat up Nazis, so you need Indiana jones and Harrison Ford out of the nursing home. Nobody was gonna watch the HBO show about blacks oppressing white peoples and fighting a Neo-KKK, so they just slapped the name Watchmen on it.
The bait and switch tactic can work. Barbie is one of the most “woke” movies ever made but was marketed as a silly fun movie for valley girls and wine moms. And it raked in billions.
Why is there such a loyalty to this narrative? South Park is fine with shitting on TFA but not TLJ. The shills are perfectly fine with shitting on TRoSW to defend TLJ's reputation.
I kicked you in the nuts when you were not expecting it. I am a master storyteller.
this, also another proof that Cinemaphile are still better than the Cinemaphileutists who are going to to praise any garbage that does this
FPBP
9 centuries of cartoons never existed
FPBP
Can't trust gayMAN companies for respecting the source material
Takes Off worked while Revelations didn't. Both shouldn't have lied though, that was messed up.
>Takes off worked
Sure it did <sarcasm>. Can't wait until all the marketing shills disappear in a couple months. Just another body on the woke "kill male protagonist" dumpster fire.
Can't wait for you to keep saying this 6 months from now as people continue to make art and discuss the show.
>shills will stop any day now!
you gays have been circlejerking for 13 years in your little corner of the internet
we'll be happy when it's back in that corner
>moving the goalpost from "you'll stop talking about it" to "you'll move on to your corner"
I accept your concession, enjoy scott pilgrim threads all throughout 2024.
AHHHHHHHHHHH OH GOD NOT THE FANART IT IS MAKING ME HEAVILY RECONSIDER HOW SHITTY THIS SHOW IS
It happened to He-man...Revolutions got two trailers and nobody noticed cause of how bad the expectations got subverted.
>Show is a hate letter to fans
>attention spans more than a couple weeks
>in the 2020s
I'm just thankful for the sexy Julie art. Curse my addiction to b***hy girls.
I want Julie to verbally and physically abuse me.
Hillary lost
>as people continue to make art and discuss the show.
The only thing people are going to remember from this are yurigays, troons and twitter lesbos overanalyzing the 3 second clip of Kim and Roxy kissing down to its last atom, and fujos watching 10 minute long "joke" of Todd and Wallace fricking.
It's pure shit, much like the rest of the show, but it's fanservice that panders to the noisiest portions of the internet, it'll have a longer lifespan than the rest of it.
Source for the art?
He-Man worked while Takes Off didn't.
He-Man was still prominently featured in every episode through extended flashbacks and Teela's entire personal motivation is Adam. It's a mediocre and very manipulative show, but He-Man is absolutely in it.
Takes Off was set to be the first animated adaptation of the comic after more than a decade and instead it was basically Scott Pilgrim: What If?..." with the main character actually totally gone from the story until the very ending
Yeah Revelations is a “meh” show but there’s a He-Man fight in every episode. Takes Off only has Scott in 3 out of 8 episodes. You can argue which approach is worse but you cannot say Revelations was really lacking that much of He-Man if you watched the show, also his name isn’t even in the title.
>featured in every episode through extended flashbacks and Teela's entire personal motivation is Adam. It's a mediocre and very manipulative show, but He-Man is absolutely in it.
By that sense Takes Off is also the same, because every episode is about Ramona trying to search for Scott Pilgrim, discussing with his friends how he was as a person, and more, including flashbacks. There's a movie made of him, then turned into a musical, and then the finale is all about him and his future self.
Takes Off at least keeps the tone of the original while Revelations spends a long time saying He-Man and everyone you love from the original series sucks
>By that sense Takes Off is also the same even though Scott's not in it while He-Man is
Eat shit you disingenuous c**t
I could get into the actual writing and how Teela giving a shit about Adam actually makes sense while Ramona caring so much about Scott is just to make the narrative happen, but you're just trolling either way
>Revelations spends a long time saying He-Man and everyone you love from the original series sucks
Literally doesn't happen
>I could get into the actual writing and how Teela giving a shit about Adam actually makes sense
Anon she literally criticized him for being dead like that's a selfish act, it does not.
>I have autism
cool story bro
No, it’s not the same because He-Man gets actual fight sequences and dialogue. There’s like two flashbacks to Scott and one of which was something we already saw and the other is like 10 seconds long. Revelations absolutely does not say He-man sucks unless you take that out of context screenshot of Teela being mad at Adam for lying to her as her being reasonable, especially since she decides to go back to his side and reconcile.
>Teela's entire personal motivation is Adam
Only in so much as "WWAD". Which honestly given the stakes isn't really what would adam do and more what would any sane responsible person do.
Teela was done with the magic and the secrecy and the bullshit. The only reason she went on the quest was because Eternia dying due to the loss of magic would also lead to the death of the universe. She was never vested in seeing him again in Preternia nor bringing him back from it.
With Takes Off Ramona's whole reason in the story is to find and bring Scott back. In essence, even without his presence Scott Pilgrim was still the main driving force of the story.
She's done with all the magic bullshit because it made Adam lie to her and took him away.
Her whole arc is coming to terms with being in love with him
It's not a great show but it's all about He-Man and He-Man is in every episode.
>It's not a great show but it's all about He-Man
It really wasn't. Teela doesn't even think of Adam until they meet in Preternia. Hell, Kevin Smith even pokes fun at people who think it is in the last fight when Adam goes "this isn't about us" at Skeletor.
Anon she has a flashback to him being a badass literally every episode
stop making me defend mediocrity
>Anon she has a flashback to him being a badass literally every episode
She doesn't. It was just in episode 3, and it was because her sidekick asked her to tell a he-man story. Said sidekick even questions the story because of Adam's puns.
>stop making me defend mediocrity
Stop misremembering and making up bullshit about it then.
>stop misremembering
no u
>he thinks i'm going off memory
It doesn't take a lot of effort to punch it up on 2x speed and skimming through the track bar to find glimpses of he-man captain tardo.
/thread
Ignore homosexuals who claimed SP sucked
>ignore those who don't think as I do
How very Roman of you
Modern cartoons are terrified of male protagonists for some reason
You already have a 1000+ year back catalogue. Don't be greedy.
and yet they think they still need to market their shows like this to succeed
>Reject modernity
I thought that was a bedsheet and now I want a cave painting duvet.
That's a thing. Just google "cave art blanket".
Damn, where do I find the other 900 years of cartoons?
And we need to continue considering most of this stuff is garbage
You are JUST almost touching the bedrock.
Ask yourself *whhhhyyy* the backlog of what is done in stories as the norm is how it is and goes well pass a thousand+ years.
You people are insufferable
>strong male protagonists for centuries
>culture thrives
>they start getting replaced
>multiple entertainment industries suddenly start crashing and burning
hmm...
>culture thrives
Open a fricking history book, tard.
Name a single matriarchal state. Much less an empire.
they are exploiting an established viewerbase to try and tell a story no one gives a frick about. Dishonest cartoonmaking
All cartoonmaking is dishonest. The characters aren't moving, it's a successive series of images used to to portray the illusion of movement.
nta but, cartoons have always been the perception of movement not movement it's self, so it's not dishonest if its doing the thing it was known to be
>You already have a 1000+ year back catalogue
My favorite cartoons are the medieval ones, did you know that Da Vinci was an animator?
He's such a great polymath.
No matter how hard you try to train them by pop culture, women will never be heroes. Rather than trying to make the unheroic desirable, you should be inculcating the value of strength in young men.
I don’t want to see Scott’s wiener.
I want to see Ramona’s breasts!
>BLOM art style
>breasts
lmao choose one
unless its envy
>No matter how hard you try to train them by pop culture, women will never be heroes. Rather than trying to make the unheroic desirable, you should be inculcating the value of strength in young men.
Debunked!
Inuyasha
Sailor moon
Bakarina
Gundam the witch from mercury
Violet evergarden
Magic Knight Rayearth
My Neighbor Totoro
Spirited away
Frieren: Beyond Journey's End
Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind
>Debunked!
>Inuyash-
ywnbaw
>You already have a 1000+ year back catalogue. Don't be greedy
This. Male protagonists are overrepresented
why is it that the argument is always that people need new and current representation, unless they're of THAT demographic?
Nice fallacy and bad faith answer. Just like a good liberal. Rules for thee, not for me.
>You already have a 1000+ year back catalogue. Don't be greedy.
Then why buy any new products? Hollywood can either make products for me, or rely on woman and minorities to fund them.
Gtfo stinky hoe
"cough" Helluva Boss "cough"
The only reason that show has a male protagonist is that Viv is a massive fujo and is only interested in writing about guys fricking each other.
Maybe it's because men are fricking trash and ruin everything they touch?
But you're trash and I doubt a man has ever touched you?
>some reason
Well, they have to put a chick in it then make it somewhat lame and make her somewhat gay.
Watch Pantheon
>b-but maddie!
caspian is the main protagonist of half of the story and is the main driver of the show
Is it complete or still airing more episodes?
complete, both seasons
If only this show wasn't so needlessly difficult to watch it legally
I mean AMC+? Seriously?
Didn't Revelations have Adam for the protag, just not for the first season?
First, you're gonna need to provide more than two examples.
Anyway, they're taking an IP with a male MC and don't want to make a cartoon with a male MC.
To make sure the old fans at least give the show a chance, they keep the old MC in for a little, then swap them out for the "real" MC.
Free views, AND you get to take down the patriarchy!
If they did, it was probably because literally nobody liked the new girl.
It's not as common as OP is implying, but it's happened a few times.
>reboot an old show with a straight white man as the protag
>show the guy in all the marketing
>episode 1, he's doing his hero thing the way the fans want and people are happy
>episode 1/2 ends with the old protag dying, losing his powers, or getting captured
>is replaced by a spunky feminist woman, often retconned as brown, lesbian or with funny hair
>show then spends a bunch of time having the writers circlejerk the woman, often with characters outright stating they prefer the new one or that she's stronger than him emotionally and/or physically and call the old one a, quote, "misogynist" and/or "pig"
>as viewer counts dip to nothing, the show's writers whine and complain on Twitter, slinging "-isms" and "-ists" everywhere as journalists spin something like "alt-right review-bombs this perfect show"
>if the show gets a second season, they either try to force the protag and it flops completely, or they bring the old one back but the damage is done and view counts stabilize at some awful medium-low amount
He-man did this about as badly as you can imagine, ALL the early marketing was Heavy Metal Manliness, then WHOOPS.
Scott Pilgrim at least used the concept for fun and was way better received.
>new girl
The girl wasn't new. And the first season ended with the reveal that Adam was alive. It was clearly all written far in advance.
doesn't change the fact that, because of marketing, everyone expected HE-MAN doing HE-MAN things and not Teela dicking around with her totally not girlfriend.
not to mention how salty she was while meeting Adam and
Kyleanon made a better He-man/She-ra continuation than whatever that was.
This, one of the main problems was that Teela b***hes way too much, just like the director, talking about that butthole, didn't he openly admit he didn't care about He-man and that he was doing the show just because they offered him to direct it?
>didn't he openly admit he didn't care about He-man and that he was doing the show just because they offered him to direct it?
Kevin Smith said that several years ago and forgot that people have actual proof him saying never liked He-Man show. Come year 2020-2021 and suddenly he was the biggest fan of He-Man there ever was and he watched the orginal series. So yeah.
>Kyleanon made a better He-man/She-ra continuation
Can someone give a rundown for us less informed individuals?
She's so changed that she may as well be new, and being alive =/= going back to being the main character.
For all intents and purposes, they probably wanted He-Mxn alive just to use him as a strawman for one thing or another.
>whe want the audience of the original
>actually whe just wanted the easy money
Scott Takes Off was BLOM wanting to do more stuff with the characters, and with him saying it was a different story before release, I’m willing to bet the bait and switch was all on Netflix’s marketing team.
He-Man was headed by people who hated the source material and had to use the IP, understandable since the OG He-Man is also a huge pile of crap.
>I’m willing to bet the bait and switch was all on Netflix’s marketing team.
The faithful first episode up until the point of his fight with Patel begs to differ. BLOM knew what he was doing but I liked Takes Off even if it wasn't what I expected.
Reboot a long running IP which has always been about a straight white male, market it as a faithful adaptation, then kill/sideline them in the first episode and make the actual story about the love interest dealing with their loss and the protagonist's absence, then bring them back right at the end.
>wanting to do more stuff with the characters
Which is why he did nothing with Knives, Wallace, Twins and almost everyone else.
>he did nothing with Knives
What? Knives has a whole arc about self discovery in Takes Off. It’s completely different from the Comics and Movie where she’s just obsessed with Scott the whole time
Yeah, five minutes of it.
>Yeah, five minutes of it.
The finale literally couldn’t happen without her and Stephen because they wrote the score for the musical. Out of all characters to say they didn’t do new things with Knives isn’t one of them. You could have at least said Envy
>bait-and-switch protagonist trend
The what? I'm genuinely ignorant
Danganronpa V3 did this to and people are still debating about it. Granted I see the frustration when they bait and switched the first female protagonist with another soft boi
It's not just the protagonist. It's common for a show or comic to be presented as one thing when it's something entirely different. Reading the early Poppy Opossum strips you'd t never guess it was going to laser focus on politics and the lesbian relationship and Helluva Boss LOOKED like a show about IMP killing people before it became 100% about gay relationships. This is a deliberate decision by the writers to try to lure you on so you may hang around to see the story they actually want to tell.
>Poppy Opossum
Literal who
You must be new here. It's a webcomic that was popular on Cinemaphile for a while before the writer got tired of writing it, turned it into an illustrated novel and then abandoned it altogether.
The worst thing about Helluva Boss when doing that was removing the aspects that would have worked and if they wanted to subvert expectations then they pick the most moronic courses of action possible. Blitzo if he was to be likable should be wanting genuine intimacy and more romancing his employees than waiting for them to let him to ruin their buttholes. Or even better, let the cast be a bunch of depraved morons like Its Always Sunny and have them be amusing for being sick fricks in the art style of a PS2 platformer.
>Get more content in the Scott PIlgrim universe with the Scott Pilgrim characters in supplement to the original comic as opposed to the same story being rehashed beat for beat for the fourth time
Show is the definition of a pleb filter.
God forbids I want to see the story of the comic being animated
Play the video game then.
>God forbid an author want to tell a new story with the characters after telling the same story 3 times
You are being disingenious in this argument, of course people want to see things adapted instead of a pseudo sequel with time travel.
Imagine you where watching Harry Potter for the first time and instead of giving you an adaptation of the book they gave you a weird time travel story that changes the events of the book? You'll be pissed.
>You are being disingenious
I'm not being disingenuous at all. I'm aware of people's irrational desire for getting the exact same content again, and I'm being completely honest with my contempt for that mentality. If I like the author of a piece of medium, and I like the characters in it, I'm more interested in getting a new story if that's what the author wants to tell. Now I have both the comic and a new story. You're booty-blasted because you aren't getting a rehash. I find that laughable and thus, I'm laughing at you.
I find you fascinating, tell me is this same contempt apply to everything you experience? Do you get annoyed when a movie adaptation of a book covers what happens in the book?
What do you think of the 80s Mario movie do you think is good because it tells a new story that reflects the artistic vision of the directors instead of rehashing the plot of the game?
>artistic vision of the directors
The directors of that film aren't the creators of Super Mario, so your example already falls flat on its face like an anime schoolgirl late for class, not even getting into that it's adapting from a medium that doesn't emphasize narrative to begin with.
Creator or not it was an artistic vision to make Mario a Cyberpunk dinosaur adventure.
>Creator or not
My argument was solely on the basis of the creator's vision, so your counterpoint is irrelevant.
And they created the movie
your semantic pedantry convinces no one
Wait, what happened to
>Creator or not
Holy shit, at least keep track of your moronic arguments lol.
>here's a second rebuttal to the thing someone else said, I'm ignoring what you said because it's devastating to my non-argument
Ok
What you said is irrelevant to my argument, so I don't care.
Not the anon you're talking to but you sound like a pretentious schizo that continues to change goal posts. You're not trying to find the correct answer, you're looking for the answer that makes you right. I've met plenty of douche bags like you irl and every single one of you is obnoxious and disconnected from reality. I have no stake in this conversation, just wanted to let you know you're a homosexual.
Well the creator of the movie had a vision didn't he?
And that vision was antithetical to the creator of the original games. Still a cool movie in my opinion but that has nothing to do with that guy's argument.
For the love of god you all need to learn what the word “disingenuous” means
NTA but the game is a nice novelty, but it doesn’t really count. And the Movie’s good, but it rushes through the plot (and cuts some stuff like Lisa) for screen time.
An ideal anime series would’ve told the complete story, maybe some added filler for more character moments.
STO is good, but it should’ve come after a real adaptation
Here's the thing though, I don't think it's feasible for to adapt the story into an anime series. I felt similarly about the series of cancelled Bone adaptions that were floated around in the past. I think a limited Graphic Novel series is the best way of delivering these stories. Any movie or TV show would inevitably have to truncate details and would end up feeling shallow in comparison. I even feel that way with the movie. You just end up with an ultimately inferior version of the story now tagging along.
Like I just said here, the anime absolutely would not have changed that.
Are we just going to forget how much of anime is directly adapted from Manga? Accurately enough to the point where you can compare scenes to their original panels?
No reason to think it can’t be done for Scott Pilgrim
First half of the movie did this and it ended up with a shit ton of jokes falling flat because they didn't translate mediums well. Similar thing happened with Azumanga Daioh.
A live-action movie probably would have actually been better suited for this alt-reality story. The best jokes in the movie are wholly original stuff like Scott jumping out the window
I think both the movie and the TV show were at their best when they were diverging from the comic.
BLOM specifically stated if he were to revisit SP he would change things for years now. That’s not really a good comparison because most Mangaka aren’t really involved with the Anime because they usually run concurrent with the comic and nowadays making filler arcs isn’t really a thing anymore.
why should anyone give a flying frick what that hack wants
writing anything people liked was an accident and letting him ruin it is a crime
Because unlike most anime, Takes Off has new scripts with the input of the original author. The only anime that I can think of off the top of my head that has new material with the author’s input is Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure and a lot of it is minimal things.
>Because unlike most anime, Takes Off has new scripts with the input of the original author
And I just told you that guy sucks and him making something people liked was an accident.
Him being involved was a bad thing.
unironically yes
George Lucas syndrome is way too common
>him making something people liked was an accident.
This statement is moronic because people liked Seconds AND Takes Off
>people liked Seconds
lol nobody read Seconds and I sure as shit don't see a fricking Seconds movie
Most people don't even know BLOM made Scott Pilgrim, they think Edgar Wright did
Seconds can be summed up in a half hour special. Not really a movie.
Since when does not getting a move = nobody liked it. By that metric nobody liked The Sandman until it’s Netflix adaptation decades later.
>Seconds is on the same level of quality and notoriety as Sandman!
lol get the frick out of here
Ok so any beloved indie comic that doesn’t get a movie is not well liked
>Seconds
>Beloved
You're trying to pretend American Graffiti was popular in anywhere near the same realm as Star Wars
Stop it
>reading comprehension
This would be the opposite of George Lucas syndrome, since Lucas had more external oversight in the original trilogy, as opposed to BLOM where he had full control over the comic but had more collaborators working with him on this project.
>George Lucas syndrome
BLOM didn’t release new editions of the original comic that overwrote the previous publications that added new scenes and redraws of panels. Call me when stuff from Takes Off is retconned into future publications of Scott Pilgrim comics
It's funny that people will literally pretend the prequels don't exist
He's insecure about of how is old work wasn't feminist enough
source?
There it is lol.
>The author shouldn't get to decide what to do with their characters!
>exact same
The Movie and the game both rush through and cuts out large portions of the story. None of them tell the exact same story of the original books, the anime could’ve changed that
Thing is, people really wanted an animated adaptation the entire time. The live movie is kind of weird and goofy at times. And then Adult Swim put out an animated short, and then everyone really wanted an animated movie or series that does a much better job of adapting the books. People were claiming for a decade how it would be so much better as a cartoon etc, and then Netflix finally announced that they were making one so it got everyone's decade long hopes up really high
..only to be let down even more when it turned out to not be the perfectly accurate 1:1 adaptation they were waiting so long for.
So yes, they did in fact want a third incarnation of the exact same story they already knew.
>they did in fact want a third incarnation of the exact same story they already knew
Yes, I'm aware of this, as I've said multiple times. Doesn't change the fact that it's a dumb desire.
People who think SP would be better as a cartoon are people who didn’t actually read the comic and just watched the movie first. Even if there was a “faithful” cartoon adaptation I can guarantee you it still wouldn’t be like the comic.
A LOT of people only watch media and never read the print material. That has been common since the invention of the film adaptation of any book.
Because you are a fricking child that has no idea what you want.
>wants a direct adaptation
>get told you don't actually want the same story and if I do I just have to reread the comics
>still want a direct adaptation
>some homosexual who praises a subversion tells me I don't know what I want
you already had what you wanted all along. It's called the fricking comics that have existed for two decades. go read them and frick off already.
>Some homosexual
Excuse me, that's a poorly paid marketing agent pajeet. Not even the gays will defend this tripe.
>literally says that he wants a direct adaptation
>somehow this makes him a fricking child that has no idea what he wants
What he wants is something the creator has no interest in making. If a creator forces themselves to work on a project they're uninterested in, you'll end up with an objectively poor product. What he wants is what would be a poor product, but he has no idea of that fact.
The creator doesn't have to be involved in an anime
In fact they typically aren't
Which is how you end up with shit like the Azumanga Daoih anime or the first season of Kekkai Sensen which shit all over the source material because the creators had no inherent understanding of what they were adapting. If you think a work of art is separable from the visionary, you don't have as much respect for the work as you think you do.
>shitting on Azumanga
>calling BLOM a "visionary"
>reading comprehension
I'm shitting on the anime adaption. The manga is a 10/10 work of comedic genius that the anime butchers with shitty pacing and timing.
>calling BLOM a "visionary"
Apparently you think so too, since you're so desperate to see the story he wrote retold.
>I am a colossal homosexual with no taste
How did Azumanga Daioh the animation shit on the source material? A good portion of it is directly adapted from the manga
It's bait.
It's be decent bait if not for the visionary remark
Because the jokes were translated poorly and padded out with dead air. Seeing Osaka trip like a moron is funny. Seeing it played back over slowly on repeat for two minutes kills the joke.
Your words.
It's fairly overrated but by no means a bad show. I don't remember them doing the "instant reply" joke, but they might have. There are still a lot of memorable moments that it shares with the manga.
I'm referring to shit like this
In the manga this was a simple 4 panel gag and then it moves on, here it gets dragged out to nearly a minute, despite not being funny enough to warrant it.
>it wasn't
Cool, then it's no big loss the original wasn't animated then, right?
>He's still posting
So are you
Then the creator should hand the work to someone else so THEY could adapt it.
And that's why Harry Potter 2001 was a massive failure
You silly sausage, you're a fridge stuffed with nothing but potatoes and onions
If ignorance is bliss you're the happiest person alive
This attitude.
This one right here.
This is why the MCU is failing. When creatives and corporate bean counters alike think the audience MUST fit a certain formula and rail against them for refusing to consoom, surprisingly enough they end up creating bad products.
It's that simple. It's like making an adaptation of Hamilton, suddenly switching it to be a plot about a random milkmaid, and then being surprised why people are disappointed.
>>God forbid an author want to tell a new story with the characters after telling the same story 3 times
Yes. you want to make something NEW then make something NEW instead of taking the cushy safe job of working on an establish IP with an established fanbase that has supported it and have established expectations. It's not the audiences job to give you even the chance to explore your vision that completely contradicts everything and trying to blame the audience is just a cheap stunt because you're a hack loser who didn't have the balls to even try his own thing and needed to hide behind the mask of established brand.
>needed to hide behind the mask of established brand
The show was written by the original author, nobody's "hiding" behind anything.
>I didn't understand a single word of that anon's post
cool story bro
aren't you tired of being moronic ITT?
George Lucas also made the prequels, what's your point?
The point is that considering the author created the "brand" you hold so sacred and the "established" fanbase, the author has very much the right to do what he wants with the brand and the characters. You disagree, because you're a mindless consumer that only sees art as a product to be consumed and not an expression of one's ideas. If you think the show is bad on its individual merits that's fine. You don't though, you're just booty-blasted because they aren't getting a rehash, which is hilarious.
>the author has every right to...
No one said he didn't you fricking clown
He has every right to shove a thousand wieners up his ass too, I don't have to like or respect it.
It's time to stop posting, you've done nothing but embarrass yourself repeatedly.
>No one said he didn't you fricking clown
>>>God forbid an author want to tell a new story with the characters after telling the same story 3 times
>Yes.
Anyway, you should take a break anon, you sound upset.
Anon do you not speak english? Do you not know the difference between "this is a shit thing to do" and "he CAN'T do this?"
You seem pretty stupid but I'm willing to chalk it up to a poor grasp of the language
Also you missed.
>"this is a shit thing to do" and "he CAN'T do this?"
Splitting hairs. And nothing shit about making something new with your own characters. Not everyone cares to see the Wayne's or Uncle Ben get shot every other year.
>me not understanding how words work is splitting hairs!
>the author has very much the right to do what he wants
And so doesn't the audience. But you know what the big difference is? The author needs the audience more than the audience needs the author. Everyone can do what they want but at the end of the day the author is the one looking for an audience not the other way around so don't spit out all that garbage when it cuts just much the other way.
Yes, you're free to have moronic opinions, and I'm free to call you a moron for having them, glad we're on the same page
>the author has very much the right to do what he wants with the brand and the characters.
Counterpoint: George Lucas made the prequels.
Authors can do whatever they want, yes, but the audience is not forced to like it, because what really matters is the objective quality of the media the author is making.
Want to know why the OG trilogy was good? it was because there were people with Lucas that told him "NO", being the creator of something doesn't make you immune to ruining the thing you created, being the creator of something doesn't mean that everything you do with that thing is good, being the creator of something doesn't mean that your "artistic vision" is the right thing for the thing you made.
The prequels are what happens when an author is left with their own means in a room full of yes-men after an ego boost the size of Saturn, the same for Metal Gear Solid 4. Sometimes, to create great art, you need someone to tell you that your vision is shit.
>What really matters is the objective quality of the media the author is making
I agree. But like I said, most people here aren't mad about the quality of the show, they're mad because it's not a rehash, and thus worth mocking. Sorry if you disagree.
If people want a rehash, then let them have a rehash. How is that a difficult concept to get?
It's not difficult. But it is moronic.
Why is it moronic?
Because getting mad that you now have another story featuring the characters you supposedly love in addition to the original story is moronic.
>B-but it's a bad-
Nope, you already established quality wasn't a factor in your disgruntlement.
Sometimes, stories aren't meant to have "another story set in the same world". The story of Scott Pilgrim is that, "the story of Scott Pilgrim", if you do something else it's no longer "The story of Scott Pilgrim", and at that point, why not do something completely original?
>Nope, you already established quality wasn't a factor in your disgruntlement.
I never said anything about the quality of the show, so it being bad is still on the table, what i said is that quality is what matters, which can also apply to takes off.
If someone says "you shouldn't take your child's phone away" and I respond, "The parent has the right to take the child's phone away" the implication is not that I thought the other person was saying that it should be illegal to do so. I'm arguing the merits of the action. Sorry the nuances of conversation evade you.
>Sometimes, stories aren't meant to have "another story set in the same world
Who gets to decide that? And why?
>why not do something completely original
Because you want to do more with the characters in the established universe but don't want to repeat the same story beats.
>but what about what BLOM wants?
Who fricking cares?
If you don't care, why do you care about Scott Pilgrim in the first place?
Maybe because he likes the original story, you know, the one that matters.
Who wrote the original story?
Anon, do you think Brian Lee O'Malley is a comic book?
Do you not understand that Scott Pilgrim the comic and Brian Lee O'Malley the hack are two different objects?
>Separate the art from artist
This has always been a moronic mantra.
So no, you don't understand that a comic book and a human being are two different things.
Because you're a moronic child.
Last (you)
What do you think about Harry Potter?
Never read it. I do agree with Rowling on the trans issue though, if that's what you were really asking. Sorry if that's not the answer you were expecting ¯_(ツ)_/¯
>I do agree with Rowling on the trans issue though
You realize that people who thinks like you would wish for nothing but having your guts out of your belly, right?
Ironic that the kinds of people who would hate the views of
share a commonality with people groaning about this scott pilgrim stuff : they're both seething against things that the creator had intended.
>they're both seething against things that the creator had intended.
No, people who hates J.K Rowling, does it because of hr personal beliefs, and they think that those beliefs somehow also taints her works, even if they are good.
On the other hnd, we don't care about O'Malley's views or actions, we just didn't like how he handled his work and we would have preferred if he did a faithful adaptation instead.
Not the same thing, buddy.
>No, people who hates J.K Rowling, does it because of hr personal beliefs
Wasn't talking about Harry Potter. Was talking about her beliefs, as a Christian, that the creator aka God made man and woman. And trannies are seething at her believing men that God made do not menstruate.
/misc/ chuddies actually came out against Rowling now because she’s pro-Israel
>Christian
>Pro-Israel
>Anti-Trans
Pretty based ngl
it's almost like no one does or should give a flying frick about Rowling outside of the most popular work of hers
Can you imagine the shit that would fly if they made an animated Harry Potter and he got killed by Voldemort at the start of the show?
i think an alternate-universe show about harry getting killed/kidnapped and guys like Neville stepping up in his wake would do pretty well. Call it The Boy Who Died
Are you kidding? That's awful.
If you let people know it's going to happen it's not a good analogy
You'd advertise it with some of the most recognizable scenes of Harry at the Dursley's animated interspersed with flashes of new scenes with no context
Then in the actual show you'd get up to the owls giving harry the letter and then a cultist that followed the owl kills Harry, end episode.
Maybe, but I can separate current author from one 20 years ago
like scott pilgrim comic
'ate the movie
'ate the show
'ate brian lee o malley
simple as
>The story of Scott Pilgrim is that, "the story of Scott Pilgrim"
It's not really just the story of Scott though because of all the other characters developing along the way, with some of their developments like Stephen's on and off relationship with Julie only for him to come out gay in the end, had nothing to do with the story or with Scott at all.
It's just the downfall of the franchise being named "Scott Pilgrim" instead of something like 'Hipster life in Toronto'. Harry Potter has this same issue where game makers can't do any of it set in modern times without attaching his name to the title even if he barely makes an appearance, like Harry Potter Hogwarts Mystery and Harry Potter Magic Awakened.
>Its easy to give audiences what they want, but that'd be moronic
Holy shit, the people making media really think like you. That's "based moron" levels of logic, I think I respect it.
You know a significant portion of EEnE fans would have wanted the show to end with Edd and Eddy becoming a couple. Obviously, fans know best after all.
>Obviously, fans know best after all.
Who said that? You? Listening to the fans too much can be just as bad as not listening to them at all. A creator needs to find a balance between "fan service" and realizing a large portion of the audience just wants to see the characters frick.
Fans should be listened to only in so far as the feedback is constructive in the context of how or why the story should play out, not what should play out in the story. Fan feedback worth listening to is:
>This character could've done more in the story
>This revelation didn't work and ruined the story because so and so
>X character isn't as sympathetic as you think they are
Fan demands that should be ignored include:
>These characters should get together because I want them to
>Bring back this character you killed off even though his story has concluded
>Tell this story again instead of this other story
You're wrong for one reason: If the fans are disappointed; that's it. As I said, its about balance. You don't have to listen to fans, but remember that there is a reason DC keeps bringing back The Joker. There's a reason why shows like Santa Inc failed.
And sure, fans may be with the show now; they were for Steven Universe and Adventure Time. And as we all know, people speak SO highly of those shows nowadays, right?
I guess my point is simple: consequences have actions, pimp.
>they were for Steven Universe and Adventure Time
>Adventure Time
>The show that ended by hooking up Bubblegum and the vampire because the fans wanted it
lol
>Franchise death
This is a meaningless moniker, because it implies that a Franchise NEEDS to go on forever. That a story can't be one and done. Particularly ironic in this case, because you're implying that this franchise in question should go on in perpetuity just singing the same song over and over.
And fans still think the show is shit. Outside of shippers, I guess, but its not like anyone respects them. Oh, and you should know by now: lesbian pairings aren't made "for the fans". Its made by the writers who want to wank about being progressive.
And thanks for sublty saying I was right about steven universe, but again, it really seems like everyone's turned on them nowadays, right?
NTA but most people outside of Cinemaphile still like Adventure Time, I think you guys forget this place has the minority opinion on most things
Not where I'm looking; people have been saying Adventure Time fell off around the time Steven Universe was new.
ye it's pretty much agreed both of those shows fell off with gumball regular show still being good.
>More fallacy
If you say this wasn't created to make money, sequels, merchandise, and all that capitalistic greed, I'd call you a liar. The fact that I gotta bring this old meme out just makes it the more stupid.
A failure is a failure. And Failure leads to death of an IP. If Brian wanted to sunset the series, he would have denied Netflix and instead had them adapt his other comics. But he didn't.
If you want the franchise dead, why direct it? Why cheer for something to be corrupted and destroyed so it can "end"?
>Anon says that by not rehashing the same story, the result is "franchise death"
>Thus anon's view is that the optimal state of a franchise is an eternal purgatory of regurgitating the same thing over and over
Scott Pilgrim before this show came out could have been considered a "dead franchise" and that was alright because the story had been told. It has now been temporarily revived because the author had a new story he wanted to tell. Now that that's done it can (and should) go back to being dormant unless there's an actual novel idea to do something with it.
>franchises shouldn't go on for too long telling the same story
>but it's good that this franchise can be squeezed dry with a total remake
>it's bad for a franchise to die
>but it's good to when it happens after subverting the story for a quick buck
He's right. You are disingenuous.
>but it's good that this franchise can be squeezed dry with a total remake
How is doing something new with the characters "squeezing it dry" any more than rehashing the story you already told?
>but it's good to when it happens after subverting the story for a quick buck
As opposed to rehashing the story for a quick buck. All you're doing is saying
>Thing I want honest
>Thing I don't want dishonest
Which you're free to say, but don't try and obfuscate the fact that it's what you're saying
>How is doing something new with the characters "squeezing it dry" any more than rehashing the story you already told?
Because you're using the brand as a mask to sell instead of just making the story it's own actual thing.
>As opposed to rehashing the story for a quick buck.
As opposed to subverting the story for a quick buck. What's the moral difference here?
>Because you're using the brand as a mask to sell instead of just making the story it's own actual thing.
You're moronic. The story in the show is explicitly written to supplement the original story. There's no mask. BLOM felt that he was interested in revisiting these characters and did so.
>What's the moral difference here
One takes significantly less creative effort than the other.
>supplement
It's practically it's own thing. You could watch this, call yourself a "fan" and not know anything about the other works of the series. Not a good thing.
>less creative effort
Effort is not the sole mark of what makes for good entertainment. Something slaved over and revised heavily by an artist can be total garbage compared to what another can effortlessly put out. Just because it can take more effort doesn't make it the better option.
>not know anything about the other works of the series
lol
>Effort is not the sole mark of what makes for good entertainment
You set the argument in the Bailey of "what's more moral" and now you're retreating to the Motte. And yes, a work that a creator puts effort into is always better than one that a creator passionlessly churns out, out of obligation.
>a work that a creator puts effort into is always better than one that a creator passionlessly churns out, out of obligation
When people enjoy a Breen or Wiseau film, they're doing it as a joke, anon. If you want to make yourself look like an idiot, then go ahead and defend the works of Paul W.S. Anderson while you're at it.
>And yes, a work that a creator puts effort into is always better than one that a creator passionlessly churns out
Not that I'm siding with that anon but It's not always passion v obligation. Sometimes it's just passion v talent, like the conflict in Amadeus.
Fair enough
>Tell this story again instead of this other story
You lost me at this, it's not entitlement to want a faithful adaptation when clearly we don't have one
>Comic
More people watch series than reads comics
>Movie
It's not entirely faithful and misses a lot of characterization of the secondary characters and it also have an OC ending.
>Game
The only way to buy the game is a badly made port of the game, and according to what people on steam says, they have problems with Ubisoft connect which doesn't let them play it. it also have the same issues of the movie and it cuts the development of secondary characters.
>Adult swim short
It's just that, a short, not a full series adapting the comic.
Considering the above, there's no problem in wanting a faithful adaptation of the comic in anime form, considering that we don't have that, and it would be maningful since that would be the way for people who don't read comics to finally experience this particular story.
A loud niche of fujos flicking their collective beans isn't a "significant portion" of the fanbase.
Perhaps you're right. Perhaps a very vocal group of people isn't truly representative of the audience reception.
You know what that is fair, I would say Adaptation instead of Rehash but tomatoes tomatos, here is the thing, the trailers don't sell this as a sequel to the comic or something different, they sell it with scenes that where in the OG comic. The advertisement makes you expect a rehash not something different. And that bait and switch is what gets people mad.
I can kind of get being annoyed with that, but I don't see it as cheap or dishonest, I'd say it's misguided at worst, since the intention was to surprise people who are familiar with the comic, though at the expense of people who hadn't read the comic.
people seem both mad that it sucks and mad that it's not what they wanted/were promised
you just seem like kind of a dumb c**t
>Yes. you want to make something NEW then make something NEW instead of taking the cushy safe job of working on an establish IP with an established fanbase that has supported it and have established expectations
Ah yes of course. Just like how Adam West was a dark and grim crimefighter who would hang the mentally ill by their necks and not have any issues with doing so, just like the batman comics before.
Oh wait.
Did the commercials and advertisement for Adam West batman make the serious out to be like it was going to be a grim and dark take? No? The series presented itself the same way start to finish. It didn't hype itself one way and then SUBVERT expectations.
Ah yes, just like how the Scott Pilgrim trailer advertised itself as a 1:! adaptation by...
Having Lucas Lee skateboarding on anything but a crappy railing and fighting skateboarding papparazi ninjas.
And Matthew Patel appearing in his pirate costume as well as some leathery matrix coat, as well as a three piece suit in front of a helicopter while flanked by ninjas.
As well as Gideon dual wielding.
And Knives Chau helping with the forcefield, in her fighting clothes.
And Ramona blocking a giant fist with her hammer.
And Envy getting crowded by ninja papparazi.
Or the Anti Kiss field that was totally a thing in the comics.
All of this shit totally happened in the comics, who could ever forget any of that.
The Masters of the Universe trailers were literally nothing but He-man jumping around on Battlecat while it blasted I NEED A HERO!! in the back ground.
Cool bruh. Now how is that related to this trailer not being 1:1 from the comics? The he-man shit you keep fellating wasn't doing 1:1 shit from the old cartoons either. Hell, one of the first glimpses of "he-man" was him wearing a dust cloak and hood riding a robot horse, which was never a thing in the old cartoons.
>this again
>pretending it wasn't a meta tweest based on false advertising when without that it's not a tweest at all
ok, he gave up the ghost, you can all stop pretending you're having an intellectually honest discussion with this festering anal c**t
his next line is "but Scott takes off! It says it right there in the name!"
Anon, that image is straight from the trailer. You're gonna have to come up with one hell of a mental gymnastics routine to explain how it's "um ackshually he can do that and still be a faithful adaptation".
fma 2003 is different from the manga but it's still about the elric brothers trying to get their bodies back. the scott comic was about scott becoming a better person and fighting the exs, the anime is nothing about that. imagine if fmab focused on humanising the homunculi into good guys instead of being about the elric brothers, that's basically what the scott pilgrim anime did.
>if you just cover broad strokes it's totally the same
But in the anime Scott still learns to be a better person and Scott still fights and beats all the exes.
>if you just cover broad strokes it's totally the same
never said it's the same but to add to that fma 2003 atleast give it's seld enough episodes to do what it need to do and a movie where as, takes off clearly doesn't have enough episodes.
>But in the anime Scott still learns to be a better person and Scott still fights and beats all the exes.
he doesn't even beat patel dude.
>But in the anime Scott still learns to be a better person
the only thing he learns is stuff about the other scott and what he did to knives was bad. even than we don't see that progress he just becomes good when he comes back.
Anon, Scott literally goes and kills everyone except Scott and Ramona, forcing them to respawn back in the past.
How is that not "Scott fighting the exs"?
>the only thing he learns is stuff about the other scott and what he did to knives was bad.
He learns all the lessons that Scott did by watching the musical because Ramona wanted Scott to know about it instead of just letting it get erased and forgotten.
Like I said, if you just paint the premise in the broad strokes you still get what "the scott comic was about" because they do the shit you went on about, even with methods, circumstances (and Scotts) being different.
Sounds like a bunch of legalese bullshit.
It's no more "legalese bullshit" from "fma2k3 edward loses alchemy because he travels to a different world where he can't get alchemy that's powered by WW1 but brotherhood edward loses alchemy because he makes a bargain with the gate of truth to give it up so he can come back to armestris."
You should not be allowed to write. Absolutely.
i said scott not old scott moron.
>Like I said, if you just paint the premise in the broad strokes you still get what "the scott comic was about" because they do the shit you went on about, even with methods, circumstances (and Scotts) being different.
what are you talking about? we aren't shown him learning that through own decisions and actions he just watch a musical but we shown that he learned from that musical you are making the assumption the he did, when it wasn't shown because the show ends.
Old Scott is just Scott in the future anon.
they became different scotts the moment scott got taken to the furture by old scott.
>they became different scotts
They didn't. Old Scott before the last fight talks about his memories being overwritten by changes in Scott's past, and how he still ended up with Ramona in spite of the shit he tried to pull.
Some threads when the anime came out even pointed out how asinine Scott Pilgrim's time travel shit is because it made use of both branching timelines approach and back to the future's "single timeline that gets overwritten by changes in the past" approach.
>anime
Cartoon.
ye and just like the first time he time travelled they became separate scotts. so when he time travelled came back hes no longer the same scott and that was the scott that beat the exs. aslo memory swapping doesn't change the fact how we the audience don't see how they ended up being where they are. this is like steins gate but if we never got to see the progress that occurs after the first time travel trip before it loops back to the events before the first time travel trip.
It's like you don't understand how moronic the time travel in the show was. He fought the exes, won, then went and plucked himself from the past to stop himself from winning, yet still was the one who fought the exes and won. Then he gets changed by the past, yet somehow still is the one that knows he went back to kidnap himself and plant the anti kissing shit, which is a memory that should have been erased by the past Scott going and not doing the shit that turns him into such a jerk.
The long and short of it is that the setting being moronic with time travel is how Scott still fought the exes and won, yet is also the Scott that never got to fight them.
>same story being rehashed beat for beat
Return to reddit.
Think of what the demon slayer anime did for the franchise. It brought a ton of new fans on board. It also brings a new experience to manga fans because it, enhances the visuals, adds fleshed out visualisations for how the author imagined for the scenes playing out. You get to hear the characters voices, see them move , hear the explosions. It's more immersive than ink and paper. If you like a written story, you will want to see it in the best possible format. Movies and games water things down, to make them fit their restrictions. There's nothing wrong with a faithful definitive adaptation
The source material will always be superior in any story worth a shit. Demon Slayer was a mediocre manga that got an adaptation that let people look at pretty ufotable but look at something like the FSN adaptations? They have single-handedly ruined a lot of anime-onlies perception of a character because it turns out that being able to have space for a character's thoughts is important.
Even then in the case of Scott Pilgrim Takes Off, the title was different from the movie and what the book series as a whole is usually referred to as due to said movie and BLOM had stated before this was something different because he didn't want to tread old ground. A typical adaptation only really has the creator around to greenlight things the showrunner wants to do, and even then sometimes the level of involvement is so minimal it's literally just telling them "Follow the scipt, you're good to do whatever else". Takes Off will get new fans even while being made for old ones because it's already getting talked about by those old fans, attracting attention to it and making others curious but pretending like it should've been a 1:1 job when there's not really anything else on the horizon. Plus considering Netflix is pretty fricked up when it comes to animation, BLOM and the team probably figured even if they wanted to do a straight work one season is probably all they'd get so they wanted to do the story BLOM was interested in doing.
>New fans fallacy
Did it gain new fans or just alienate the existing fanbase? He-man, Star Wars, insert current year sequel here, the end result is always the same: Franchise death
All I'm saying the massive success of anime proves that people love straight adaptions and you don't need a massive rewrite to "sell it" the same story with enhanced sensory detail, color, sound, fluid movement, voices is all that's needed. This is a western problem
I can't wait for HIM
>Woke trash
>Pleb filter
lol sounds like something a pleb would say...
Subversion
lol I remember when Revelations and that Thundercats Roar came out and both times Cinemaphile pretended that their original shows were anything but cheap Filmation garbage
Excuse you, this was high art
God I love the vehicles in He-Man, they are wonderfully stupid.
Traffic accidents would disappear if this was the main mode of transportation in our world.
That cheap Filmation garbage doesn't make me want to kill myself instead
It's cheesy and wonky, but not depressing
>2
>trend
The irony is that they exhibit the same frothing kneejerk behavior of the feminists they like to lambast.
The Netflix MOTU show pisses me off for a different reason. It falls into that same
>Let's depower the hero and then see the adventures of normal guy doing normal things until the final episode when we finally get to see the hero guy being cool and heroic with powers again!
That the last three Dr Strange runs have done and the last Green Lantern run did.
I'm not reading over the top scifi fantasy to see normal non-powered guy struggle with normal shit. I'm reading to see a man god punch meteors back into space, I want to see space cops shoot black holes shut and then go brawl with eldrtich abominations. If I want to see normal human guy struggle I would go read some Gotham shit.
The preoccupation - should we say obsession? - with replacing the extraordinary with the ordinary is an old problem with postmodernist writing. Some say it stems from a lack of confidence in the heroic and the exemplary, but I think the problem is more obvious: no imagination on the part of the writer. Or, nearly as bad, predictable courses of imagination that simply boil down to that good old word, "deconstruction", because it takes less effort to dissemble something that was already created than to invent and develop an entirely new cast and story.
>Why is Scott Pilgrim still generally well-received despite the bait-and-switch, while He-man's is universally hated?
Scott Pilgrim is still a young enough franchise that it can afford to play with the formula, even when the results are divisive. He-Man and the Masters of the Universe needed a shot in the arm several yesterdays ago to stay relevant, and Kevin Smith pitched MOTU Revelation as not only the return of the saga, but an epic, apocalyptic power ballad continuation of the original Filmation series (though he predictably walked back any connection to the OG show on Twitter like two weeks before airtime), helmed by a studio that's turned out some of the best Western 2D animation in the last ten years, scored by Bear McCreary, and star-studded with a voice cast that would drop the jaw of every sci-fi and fantasy nerd born in the last 40 years.
For all that bombast, he turned in a lazy retelling of Death, World Without, and Return of Superman that limped into a second half where he somehow managed to make a battle of barbarians and sorcerers and tech-soldiers for the very fate of the universe feel like horseplay on a high school playground. McCreary's score is never given a chance to distinguish itself over the sub-MCU-tier dialogue, which the voice cast recorded in isolation during COVID.
Basically, MOTU needed Revelation to be a runaway hit, and ended up with a fart in the wind.
Very simply, because it makes you discuss it
Every time there’s a heartwarming, traditional, straightforward adaption you all ignore it, won’t view it and let it fail. Every time they “subvert expectations” in an ugly way you will watch, discuss, outrage and debate so more people see it, watch it, discuss years past expiration and lead to more views and revenue for Netflix.
If this was a 1:1 adaption you’d all say it was cool and then never bring it up again. Now everyone knows there’s a twist and need to subscribe to Netflix to find out
From what I have seen it's more a contempt for anything that came before on part of a lot of modern writers. They always view any older material as outdated, shallow, surface level shit that they could do miles better if THEY were allowed to write the series. So they overhaul everything because they were never really fans and assume technically no one was ever a fan because X series was always so stupid and simple. It just needed a REAL writer to finally make it into art!
This is just the modern version of 10-15 years ago when everyone thought amazing, deep, adult writing was writing all the characters as dead and in purgatory. Post 2018 media is main character vanishes, some low level side character steps up.
I wonder what is going to be the deep, insightful, cool adult method everyone will imitate in all things a few years from now...
Well in this case the OG creator pulled an Hideaki Anno after his divorce.
Despite all the buzz the Scott Pilgrim show didn't even make it to the Netflix top ten in its premiere week
What did he mean by this?
Those are just the to shows in your country, not the global top ten for last week
had no idea there was a publicly available steam charts but for Netflix.
What is it with Netflix and making Michael Cera look at a girl to his left?
>Puts the girl on the cover looking bad ass and not the mc
What did they mean by this?
>Strong Girl Nam Soon
sue me
Is that a show about all the strong girls in a futuristic vietnam war
Or maybe, just maybe they could just give us what we wanted and what they advertised instead of blatantly lying for them to sweep the rug from under us.
>Very simply, because it makes you discuss it
>Instead of watching it
Brilliant marketing strategy.
Explain the JoJo: Vento Aureo anime adaptation then. JoJo hype was at its peak while it was out.
>Every time there’s a heartwarming, traditional, straightforward adaption you all ignore it, won’t view it and let it fail.
>heartwarming, traditional, straightforward adaption
There it is. Then hollywood should stop making ~~*adaptations*~~, rehashed sequels, etc. Also
>heartwarming and traditional
Lol, lmao even. If you really were earnest about respecting the integrity of everything that is "traditional" you wouldn't be making shitty sequels in the first place, you'd just keep the original as it is. It's okay to say that it's really all about making money. People are righteously upset at all of these big name studios taking little to no risks when it comes to coming up with original, creative stories. That's what happens when all of your new hires are all "family friends' kids" and all part of the same clique in calarts. Talentless hacks.
>Every time there’s a heartwarming, traditional, straightforward adaption you all ignore it, won’t view it and let it fail.
Jojo's Bizarre Adventure and anime in general are the biggest counter argument to your bullshit argument. People LOVE faithful adaptations.
Majority of people who watch Jojo have never read the Manga, so they wouldn't know (or care) if it's faithful or not. Case in point, Soul Eater, MAGI, Hellsing, FMA 2003, and many others are all acclaimed despite diverging from the source material.
>FMA 2003
To add to this fact, you got 2003tards bemoaning Brotherhood even though that's the one that's a faithful adaptation of the manga.
>Soul Eater, MAGI, Hellsing, FMA 2003, and many others are all acclaimed despite diverging from the source material.
The only reason why these adaptations diverge is because their manga hadn't been finished during production. The original plotlines in those adaptations came out of necessity. They were also actually good, unlike Takes Off. However, their quality doesn't diminish the demand for an accurate adaptation, that's why FMA Brotherhood exists.
Anime adaptations with different story content make up very few anime. DBZ, YYH, and even modern anime like My Hero Academia, Jujutsu Kaisen and Spy x Family are some of the biggest titles out there, with active viewer-bases that read the manga, then watch the anime when it airs on TV.
>The only reason why these adaptations diverge is because their manga hadn't been finished during production.
That doesn't really stop them from going to the source material. A topical example here is Scott Pilgrim itself. The final book came out 7 days before the movie, which means that the script for how the movie ends was made well before the final book was done.
It's pisspoor writing for an author to not have a clear view of how their story ends, and revealing it in one medium that came after the original does not take anything away from said original because they can portray how it gets there in a different manner visually, or make references to it in a "remember the thing in the thing" kind of manner. But none of that happens in any of the works that anon cited.
...Anime is made to sell the manga, ya idiot.
Why would they do the ending in the anime if they haven't gotten to it in the manga?
Anime is made to sell the most money out of the franchise.
Case in point Goblin Slayer anime is ahead of the manga now and it retains an acceptable level of deviation from the light novel.
>The final book came out 7 days before the movie, which means that the script for how the movie ends was made well before the final book was done.
>In the film's original ending, written before the release of the final Scott Pilgrim book, Scott gets back together with Knives. O'Malley objected to the first ending because he felt it would dilute Knives's character. After the final book in the series, in which Scott and Ramona get back together, was released, and with divided audience reaction to the film's original ending, a new ending was filmed to match the books, with Scott and Ramona getting back together.
>After the final book in the series, in which Scott and Ramona get back together, was released, and with divided audience reaction to the film's original ending, a new ending was filmed to match the books, with Scott and Ramona getting back together.
You mean test audience right? I distinctly remember watching this on opening night and the ending was him ending up with Ramona.
>Soul Eater
Deviated because it caught up with the manga.
>MAGI
Still largely remains faithful to the manga's story.
>Hellsing
Deviated because it caught up with the manga, and got remade when the manga finished.
>FMA 2003
Deviated because it caught up with the manga. It got remade when the manga was finished. The remake being, at the very least
, on par with 2003.
Scott Pilgrim has no excuse.
>Majority of people who watch Jojo have never read the Manga
Very true, I have not read the manga. In fact, I even ask a friend who is a bigger fan got me into the anime and said I don't need to read the manga. The anime is better than the manga as it cuts a lot of the fluff.
Not true ever since they started the adaption I always saw people say they can't wait for certain parts to get animated this is happening now with jujutsu, but when the anime fails to keep up visually some will read the manga like mha for example, got clowned on for its visuals compared to the manga so people ended up reading the manga. the same thing happened with one punch man season 2, it fell off visually so most one punch man fans are reading the manga instead of waiting. Bleachs currently season pretty much only being watched by people that have read the manga.
It was the Netflix release schedule that killed it
Why is Scott Pilgrim still generally well-received despite the bait-and-switch, while He-man's is universally hated?
Scott Pilgrim is only a ten year old franchise that still has a lot of fans. Plus it's for an older crowd.
While MOTU is a 40+ year old franchise that overwhelming majority of the fans grew out of three decades ago, has long since been forgotten by the public at large, and only really has aging action figure collectors as a fanbase these days.
Scott Pilgrim got a resounding "it's ok" from critics (fresh does not mean good, it means not-bad) and didn't even break the top ten for netflix shows the week of its release
It's as much of a fart in the wind as MOTU was
There are already articles going up begging people to give it a chance despite the bait and switch
These are created by Marxists who hate men for being the leaders of society.
he's not wrong
Two cartoons over a two year period are not a trend.
Ultimate it comes down to the showrunners
1) not actually liking the property itself
and
2) realizing that "Teela and the Masters of the Universe" or "Ramona Flowers vs. the World" would not do as well as a show titled He-Man/Scott Pilgrim.
Bryan himself was involved with Takes Off though.
Thing is, would they not do well because of recognition alone? Or because not that many people are genuinely interested in a series starring a side character? It kind of sounds like it was set up for failure by shoving the side character into the spotlight.
Calling them that wouldn’t even make sense because they both have the original protags taking over again in their back halves. MOT:R has Adam reconciling with his father and him being the catalyst for Evil-Lynn realizing Skeletor cares more about fighting Adam than their love. Takes Off has future Scott completely losing it to the point of realizing he couldn’t emotionally cope properly which helps Ramona realize she’s been running away the whole time which causes her to make a new timeline to make sure she’s emotionally open to Scott.
>trend
>two shows over two years
Must be bored huh
We will never get the version of this we deserve where it's TMNT but actually about hot April doing hot April things without the turtles
I’d watch that as a spin-off.
Blah blah blah, Still not watching/reading/playing Scott Pilgrim
most quality post here
>trend
>two shows
Its truly an epidemic.
Notice how nobody acknowledged this post because they know its correct.
Reject modern cartoon.
Return to anime.
Gatekeep anime.
Females are weak.
LE SUBVERSIVE WRITING
It's kind of incredible how the same three opinions just get repeated over and over and over
Exactly
>They didn't lie!
>You just want a rehash!
>The change was good! Scott is the worst part of Scott Pilgrim
Don't forget
>They fleshed out the ex's! (they didn't)
>O'Malley didn't want to retell the story! (who cares?)
>A-at least the animation was good! (it wasn't)
>>They fleshed out the ex's! (they didn't)
>Ignoring everything with Matthew, Roxy, and Gideon
Yeah ok you can not like this but saying that this show didn’t add more to their characters is legitimately lying about the source material and the show
Roxy is the only ex whose character was expanded
That you actually pretend Matt and Gideon got development and not a bunch of crappy jokes tells me how honest you're willing to be about the show
>>You just want a rehash!
That’s not an opinion though. People are literally saying that ITT
It's almost as if a marketing firm/Netflix employees are damage controlling or something.
https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/hbo-casey-bloys-explains-fake-twitter-accounts-troll-critics-1235775997/
This is why forums need to come back.
they hate men
>THEY HATE THE AUDIENCE -/co/
>The audience:
very interesting if true.
I’m surprised you don’t post this under more threads on Cinemaphile where they apply.
Are we seriously gonna pretend little boys will not throw characterization out the window once it gets in the way of what they think is cool
Yes I am aware of the times I had Joker try and solve Riddlers games to find Harley, but not all the time!
>characterization out the window once it gets in the way of what they think is cool
But they still wiil go "...Then Barman does this and this etc, as they are taking the role of batman just going to wild hijinks that only child can come up with, pretty similar than Silver Age Batman comics or the Adam West series.
Everyone wants to be Hideo Kojima.
And you just know that if this bait and switch was done to say the new Tomb Raider show, everyone would be crying Misogyny. Like say Lara dies in the second episode and the show follows that Nerd she had a crush on in the first game.
Then we get to say "it's still about Laura because he misses her alot and thinks about her"
To be fair, it’s called “Tomb Raider” not “Lara Croft” so you could get away with it
It's called "Lara Croft Heads Out" and she says aight imma head out at the start of the series! It's your fault you thought she'd be in it!
Then Lara comes back by the end and says to the Nerd, "No, you truly are the Tomb Raider." and she fights off a secondary threat while Nerd battles the main threat with Lara's iconic dual pist...bow and arrow.
You can't have a competent straight white male protagonist in CURRENT YEAR. They have to be evil and/or hilariously incompetent, preferably both. Oh, and bonus points if they're constantly being upstaged by women and/or minorites.
Wait, why isn't anyone watching cartoons anymore? Ah, they must all be bigots, that's it!
Why’d the post disappear ?
Metal Gear Solid 2 worked because while Snake wasn't the playable character, he still played a major role in the story as Raiden's mentor.
Not only that, but the bait and switch not only benefited the narrative, the bait and switch was the narrative. The game is about media manipulation and how we act acording to the truths we hold to. We were lied to as much as Raiden, Fortune, Ocelot, or even Snake himself. The outrage we felt when playing Raiden is part of the story, and is part of what the patriots wanted to archieve in game. That element is diluted nowadays because everyone knows and loves Raiden thanks to Rising Revengeance, but tha doesn't take away the brilliance in narrative that is this game, even if it was unintentioal because Kojima only added Raiden because he wanted the fujo audience.
I guess masterpieces sometimes are made by accident..
Plus, don't you play as Snake in the first level? Like, not as a interactive cutscene where snake walks around and talks, but as an actual level where you stealth around, beat enemies, and then fight a boss.
They played Danganronpa 3.
People like it if it's actually done well. See Raiden compared to Venom Snake.
It's a sign the system is run by stupid gay clowns.
Teela was so fricking bad in Revelations, it bewilders me how someone could look at a draft of her in it and think it was a good idea.
Like holy shit she's offensively c**tish and a piece of shit in it.
I am sick to death of the constant vilification of the fans. Like it's somehow always our responsibility to eat up whatever slop the studios want to put out and if we don't like everything we're just being unreasonable. It is not the fandoms job to like you. It's not even their job to be fair. The creators are the ones asking for our patronage not the other way around. It's on them to get us invested.
It’s an entitlement attitude with millennials, they’re very combative and view everything in a political lens so if you don’t like their material you’re the problem
All these subversions seem to rely on the idea the original is still common or popular to be know so the subversion can springboard off it.
It's literally just whoever signs on to a project deciding they're going to do something NEW and EXCITING with it instead of the simple job everyone wants them to do. Creatives are constantly up their own ass about the work they do having to be special and unique and significant.
They're like a chef being asked to make a burger but they think that's too passe' so they so some avant-bullshit deconstruction that nobody wanted with kelp pearls instead of lettuce and a bechemel instead of cheese
I don't think 2 examples released years apart counts as a trend.
>What's with this bait-and-switch protagonist trend?
For at least 5 years we've had tons of male-oriented franchise reboots and sequels where the main male character is supplanted by a female character, surely you can't have noticed this just now ?
It is a corporate push for 4th wave feminism, fueled by Blackrock investment threats.
This is the reason Budweiser decided to use a man pretending to be a 14 year old girl as a spokesperson, and then after market destroying backlash, refuse to acknowledge that they made a massive mistake.
Pretty much every franchise in the western world has at least one female in it, right?
I don’t think there is any that has none.
Even Regular Show eventually had Eileen join the main cast.
Maybe Beavis and Butt-Head.
>plot includes a twist
NNNOOO FALSE ADVERTISING I WAS LIED TO BOYCOTT NNNOOO
He-Man fricking sucked, Scott was fine.
When you post this shit, you're just screaming to everyone that you're arguing in bad faith. The issue isn't "a twist". The issue is that people want to see a character being great, and those people get screwed over.
And then, fans of that character will get belittled by people like you making false comparisons. People are unironically told "Who cares if you barely got SCOTT PILGRIM in the SCOTT PILGRIM show?" and other nonsense. Of course, you don't care. You're one of the people making moronic arguments to put others down. Frick off and stop poisoning the discourse just because you disagree with the opinions of others.
>Who cares if you barely got SCOTT PILGRIM in the SCOTT PILGRIM show
Exactly. It reminds me of this old shitty adult swim showI watched called "the Venture Bros". It barely features the Venture Bros, and instead is about this moron in a butterfly suit and this gay midget and his albino boyfriend.
>Exactly. It reminds me of this old shitty adult swim showI watched called "the Venture Bros".
And that's where you went wrong. Firstly, I seem to remember the actual brothers being featured enough in the show to justify the name, but you're missing a few steps here regardless:
1.) I said the main issue is that people didn't get to see the character they liked in his own show...Did you like the actual Venture Brothers that much? I didn't; I actually liked the butterfly dude more.
2.) The Venture Bros is inherently satirical. Parodying comic books and such. If you're expecting a straight forward show from them, you're an idiot.
3.) You don't understand anything about the shit you're talking about if you're comparing VENTURE BROS to SCOTT PILGRIM, holy shit.
>Firstly, I seem to remember the actual brothers being featured enough in the show to justify the name
They were treated like secondary characters practically from start to finish
>They were treated like secondary characters practically from start to finish
Where they there, though? As in, in the show? And doing things that effected other things? Unless the answer is "no, they weren't there", you seem to be trying to move the goal posts.
It reminds me more of this book called Moby Dick where they spend more time going on about making soup out of turtles and the nature of the whaling industry than showcasing the aforementioned Dick.
>oh oh le bad faith
>um actually false comparisons
>heckin poisoning the discourse
Go back.
All what happened is that we thought we get Scott Pilgrim vs The World. But we got Scott Pilgrim Takes Off. Technically it's our fault.
Maybe not lie by omission in the show description?
Where's the lie though?
Calling it "Scott Pilgrim". You know, at least "Masters of the Universe: Revelations" removed He-man from the title. Still lies about it being a sequel to the 80's show when its anything tho.
>Calling it "Scott Pilgrim".
But Scott Pilgrim is in the show and is the main reason the story moves forward.
You sound like a moron that whines about Metroid having that name because of Metroids only ever appearing near the end of the game. Or whine about a movie being named Jaws because of how little screen time the shark gets.
>Same old deflections
>Same old insults
Marketing shills are all the same. See you in six months when the paychecks stop coming.
>reee stop defeating my nonsense with the same old logic!
You have yet to debunk Scott being the main driving force of the story because you can't.
Keep seething moron.
It's been debunked. Long since been debunked. Shooter in the grassy knoll debunked.
Anyway Taco lemon salsa if ken blue dafoildil.
>It's been debunked.
But it hasn't.
moron.
It has.
>But Scott Pilgrim is in the show and is the main reason the story moves forward.
Ah, you're arguing in bad faith. I might have known if I cared.
>NB4 "You cared enough to repsond ;););)
Yeah, I did. To respond. I didn't care about your point and that's clear by the context of my comment.
Uh huh. Go on then and tell me how the story isn't about Ramona going off and looking for this guy that she went on one date with because she just loves him now.
Go ahead, I'll wait.
>Go on then and tell me how the story isn't about Ramona going off and-
No. I didn't say I would, and I'm under no obligation to type multiple paragraphs that you won't accept anyway. Just accept the fact that you don't agree, and I'll accept the fact that you're disingenuous.
>can't disprove it
>just call them disingenuous
Concession accepted then.
Accept your delusions if you like. Whatever makes it easier for you. The fact is that I told you I wouldn't waste my time typing sentences for you to ignore. That's reality.
Dumb baby man with sword is dumb baby man
Dumb baby man with guitar is dumb baby man
Dumb baby men love dumb baby man with things, no like girls
"Let's try and trick those ignorant buttholes into watching propaganda!"
I mean it works, but it also makes you look bad.
Ive always seen "bait and switch" marketing as a sign when they have little to no faith in their product so they have to lie through their teeth and essentially false advertise to get people into it. I liked Scott Pilgrim back in the day so I wouldve gave an honestly marketed Ramona show a chance but this just give a bad impression and it was literally He-man all over again
Small hats take every opportunity to humiliate their nemesis
at this point their nemesis is literally the entire world. The "chosen people" have become demons.
Is this actually good? because I personally am surprised with all the changes it feels more like a scott pilgrim epilogue with time travel thing
It’s a sequel actually, and yes it’s good.
How can a trailer be better than the entire show?
>thing wildly deviates from the already finished source material
>Cinemaphile doesn't have a b***hfit about it
I miss those olden days.
Was that ever a thing? People were b***hing about this stuff all the way back in 2003 with the Teen Titans cartoon.
>Was that ever a thing?
Yes.
Also, Starship Troopers.
Character portrayals in Captain N.
And so on and so forth.
You act like that is a good thing.
And you act like
was a bad thing.
It's unreal both of these properties had cool as frick trailers and both ended killing the MC in the first episode.
What is this school of writing called? Toy Commercial trailers? Toy Ad animation?
Because once you get the real toy, it feels like a letdown compared to the advertisements.
Final Fantasy XII did something different.
The "main character" the game promoted and the one who you play as the most is actually just the comic relief, who is also the audience surrogate and fangirl bait.
And he doesn't do much to the plot, except giving the player someone more relatable in a world of fantasy anime politics that may become confusing.
It's like if The Phantom Menace made Jar-Jar Binks the protagonist from which we see the story unfold, even when he doesn't do much to the story.
Scott Pilgrim and its consequences have been a disaster for the female race
Scott Pilgrim Ruined a Whole Generation of Women
400 posts and the same homie is still pretending no one was misled by the advertising
To sum up this and every other thread:
>I'm mad because the show sucks, I wanted an adaptation of the comic and I was misled
>You weren't misled even though if that were true no one would be mad and this thread wouldn't exist! Also you have no right to have any desires, only BLOM gets to want things!
There, now you can be free of this garbage topic.
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Whenever I see any new animation with a globohomosexual brand attached to it (ie, Netflex, Amazon, Hulu, etc.), I always make a mental note that those globohomosexual companies will either frick up, retcon, or complete censor parts or all of the source material for a higher ESG rating so they can get higher tax breaks, while alienating their own fans.
>he says, as Edgerunners exists
Mindless consumers like you are the reason companies like cdprojekt will never go under.
Ah yes, of course. How could I forget that cdprojekt red is the one that animated edgerunners.
Edgerunners is fricking awful and people praising it as a return to form for Trigger let me know they'd never ever be good again
>Netflex, Amazon, Hulu,
I'm almost not surprised by this type of "reinterpretations" of the material with the company that produces it (Netflix in this case)... it seriously seems like they do it on purpose and by force; And I daring to say, and may to sound kinda conspiranoic, that underneath the controversy it seems that they want or try to send the propaganda that female side-chara is better than the main protagonist. (And I clarify, I only mention the despotic way they execute this in entertainment, and not the characters who have really stood out without resorting to these current forms)
The Conan series didn't come about for a reason.
Don't make sense, really. Conan already had a cartoon come out that deviated from the source material that Cinemaphile didn't have a meltdown about. Though admittedly that's probably because the Cinemaphile that would have had a meltdown about it wasn't even born when it came out.
>It's a conspiracy!
It's never a fricking conspiracy
It's always a confluence of a bunch of shitty chaotic individual decisions
You're seeing more and more reboots that pull this shit because studios will only greenlight reboots with recognizable IP's but the current crop of writers that got in during the previous writers' strike are a bunch of fart-sniffing c**ts that won't "lower themselves" to doing a normal reboot. They have to leave their shit-mark on anything they make even if they're just hired to make 80's Toy Property Reboot 23.
The simplest way to do that, and the one that appeals most to insular LA artist circles, is to make the most prominent female into the protagonist.
Writers will have characters/scripts that they want to sell, but because it's shit nobody buys it. Once they've infiltrated a writers room for a popular IP, that's when they insert their character/script ideas and take over the show/movie. How many times have we seen "Character A" marketed as "A's show" only to be hit over the head with "Character Z" who ultimately doesn't matter in the long run but will still be around to spout off the writer's politics.
Both these shows were produced by Netflix and had similar adverts, plot twist, and story beats with the main characters dyingvatcthe start to created a deconstruction of the story.
Are Netflix producers just bruteforcing these kind of samey scripts onto their shows?
Writers want to tell their own stories but what sells is reviving some shit from 1-3 decades ago. So you get sold nostalgiabait that has nothing to do with the original work beyond the characters’ names.
The entirety of multimedia batman contradicts this shit though. The 66 Adam West campy shit was received well in spite of "shit from 1-3 decades ago" being a vastly darker tone. Likewise the Bruce Timm animated series was very well liked in spite of, and this is using Conroy's own familiarity with the material, the previously famously known shit was campy West stuff.
Then after BTAS you had The Batman, where while different in animation it carried the same dark tones that BTAS did, and wasn't liked anywhere near BTAS. Following that you had The Brave and the Bold which not only embraced camp but mixed in the zanier adventures Batman has had, and people ate that shit up.