>First, let us agree that Wayne/Batman is not insane. There is a difference between obsession and insanity. Obsessed the man surely is, but he is in the fullest possession of his mental and moral faculties. Everything with the exception of his friends' welfare is bent to the task he knows he can never accomplish, the elimination of crime. It is this task which imposes meaning on an existence he would otherwise find intolerable.
>He is tough, but not brutal. He uses violence willingly and often, but never to excess, and never with pleasure. He does not enjoy it. And he never kills. Let's repeat that for the folks in the balcony: Batman never kills. The trauma which created his obsession also generated in him a reverence for that most basic of values, the sacredness of human life. If he was not consumed with the elimination of crime, he would not be the Batman. And if he did not consider human life inviolable, he would not be the Batman, either.
>He is compassionate. His determination to stop crime is exceeded only by his compassion for crime's victims. He can never forget that once he was a small boy weeping over his murdered parents.
Miller wrote him like that in Year One. TDKR Bruce is meant to be someone who went through shit.
It's only later that he decided to always write Batman with own extreme spin on him and have all of his entries share some apparent continuity.
I would agree, and I defend Miller's later work as well even if it isn't my preference. All-Star is an incomplete work. But overall, I think Batman works best for me in short form adventure/mystery stories, and Denny did more of that (as well as preceding over that) than Miller so his take is my preferred.
I prefer this approach. If you make Batman too violent he just becomes Daredevil. Murdochs vigilantism comes out of an addiction to violence justified by his holy mission. Batmans mission is out of compassion and empathy
Without Denny, Miller would not have his iconic Batman runs. Same with Daredevil. Not only was O'Neil a writer that molded the characters before Miller, I am pretty sure he was Miller's editor on both DD and Batman. He was also editor of Batman for years and years while Frank went and did creator owned stuff.
Yeah, but he's building on that shit that Denny wrote or edited. Hell, I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Denny was the line editor when DKR came out, so there is a good chance that wouldn't have happened without his okay either. Either way, you don't get to DKR without the bronze age Batman.
Without Denny, Miller would not have his iconic Batman runs. Same with Daredevil. Not only was O'Neil a writer that molded the characters before Miller, I am pretty sure he was Miller's editor on both DD and Batman. He was also editor of Batman for years and years while Frank went and did creator owned stuff.
O'Neil actually fired Daredevil's writer after the first few Miller-drawn issues so Miller could become the writer
but Miller is unquestionably the better creator, even if he is standing on the shoulders of giants
That's true.
Denny is a godsend, in part for delivering Miller to Daredevil and Batman. I will always have great respect for the man that coached and gave gigs to one of my favorite comics creators. Same goes for Neal Adams for giving Miller his first gig in comics.
Miller without question
I like Denny but prefer Miller.
You mean after Bob Kane, the greatest, God-chosen artist of the twentieth century?
Denny easily.
>First, let us agree that Wayne/Batman is not insane. There is a difference between obsession and insanity. Obsessed the man surely is, but he is in the fullest possession of his mental and moral faculties. Everything with the exception of his friends' welfare is bent to the task he knows he can never accomplish, the elimination of crime. It is this task which imposes meaning on an existence he would otherwise find intolerable.
>He is tough, but not brutal. He uses violence willingly and often, but never to excess, and never with pleasure. He does not enjoy it. And he never kills. Let's repeat that for the folks in the balcony: Batman never kills. The trauma which created his obsession also generated in him a reverence for that most basic of values, the sacredness of human life. If he was not consumed with the elimination of crime, he would not be the Batman. And if he did not consider human life inviolable, he would not be the Batman, either.
>He is compassionate. His determination to stop crime is exceeded only by his compassion for crime's victims. He can never forget that once he was a small boy weeping over his murdered parents.
Miller wrote him like that in Year One. TDKR Bruce is meant to be someone who went through shit.
It's only later that he decided to always write Batman with own extreme spin on him and have all of his entries share some apparent continuity.
I would agree, and I defend Miller's later work as well even if it isn't my preference. All-Star is an incomplete work. But overall, I think Batman works best for me in short form adventure/mystery stories, and Denny did more of that (as well as preceding over that) than Miller so his take is my preferred.
I never liked this safe approach.
A safe approach is needed for a more extreme approach like DKR to make any impact.
That's true. Good point.
I prefer this approach. If you make Batman too violent he just becomes Daredevil. Murdochs vigilantism comes out of an addiction to violence justified by his holy mission. Batmans mission is out of compassion and empathy
>compassion and empathy
That's ghey.
Without Denny, Miller would not have his iconic Batman runs. Same with Daredevil. Not only was O'Neil a writer that molded the characters before Miller, I am pretty sure he was Miller's editor on both DD and Batman. He was also editor of Batman for years and years while Frank went and did creator owned stuff.
O'Neil actually fired Daredevil's writer after the first few Miller-drawn issues so Miller could become the writer
but Miller is unquestionably the better creator, even if he is standing on the shoulders of giants
Denny. Miller hasn't actually written that much Batman.
He didn't have to. He made tremendous impact with just four chapters.
Yeah, but he's building on that shit that Denny wrote or edited. Hell, I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Denny was the line editor when DKR came out, so there is a good chance that wouldn't have happened without his okay either. Either way, you don't get to DKR without the bronze age Batman.
That's true.
Denny is a godsend, in part for delivering Miller to Daredevil and Batman. I will always have great respect for the man that coached and gave gigs to one of my favorite comics creators. Same goes for Neal Adams for giving Miller his first gig in comics.
Bill Finger
Who?
O'Neil is the second daddy, but Miller is the third
Do we need to pit them against each other? They're both great but in different ways
Frank Miller is the dad that went out for a pack of cigarettes
O'Neill, with Adams, Novick and Brown, was responsible for his rebirth.
Miller was responsible for his second rebirth.