why are modern cartoons so okay with glorifying outsourcing?
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It's All Fucked Shirt $22.14 |
why are modern cartoons so okay with glorifying outsourcing?
why are modern cartoons so okay with glorifying outsourcing?
It's All Fucked Shirt $22.14 |
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It's All Fucked Shirt $22.14 |
Because if the leftists running the shows didn't have standards, they wouldn't have any at all.
Even cartoons form the right are outsource
No they aren't. That's why they look so hideous. Like that Board Apes cartoon thst Jacks off Elon Musk and the Paul Brothers.
Axe Cop was made by an publicly open conservative, worked in Daily Bee and now Daily Wire
The show is also outsourced
>Axe Cop was made by an publicly open conservative
Really? I always picture him as a Ryan North kind of guy
>cartoons form the right
Yeah, there's...
Butch Hartman, Doug TenNapel, and John K
>John K
Ren and Stimpy is also outsourced
To be honest pretty much all the cartoons made by
are outsourced
John K isn't rightwing. George Liquor is a criticism of conservatives.
George Liquor is from his alcoholic daddy complex, not a critique of conservatism.
his alcoholic daddy is a conservative
I mean, you're not wrong, John K. is definitely a conservative (or at least a LINO), but that doesn't make his dad (and George Liquor, by extension) not a conservative
Even if his dad is conservative, John K made more daddy issues characters (which he didnt address irl because he molested those girls) than critiques on conservative dad. His criticisms on conservativism is just "my daddy beat me because he was a dumb sexually predatory drunk but he was right and im gonna do the same shit"
>John K. is definitely a conservative
And you're basing this on what, him liking breasts?
He's an atheist, he's a democratic voter, he dresses like a 60s mod and uses "conservative" as a description for bland or boring art work. Also one of his last pieces of professional animation was making fun of Trump for a documentary.
To modern day liberals "conservative" just means "not a braindead prog."
Is the state of modern cartoons CN's fault or Fox's?
california's
Most of your favorite shows are outsourced.
why?
money
Animation is an expensive and time consuming medium to create, modern day cartoons are the culmination of decades of cost cutting measures implemented to ensure corporations can churn out content as quickly and efficiently as possible.
>Animation is an expensive and time consuming medium. It is very profitable otherwise why would non-artists want to manage it? They just like cartoons? Producers and VA are where a lot of the money goes. Artists are historically pushovers and moronic with money so studios exploite this and make bank because its actually the easiest money they make. Not all producers are bad but the ones who can't board, design or animate usually sucked a dick to get their job and are the reason shows have gone to shit.
Non-artists think animation is easy. Mostly because you can make everything from scratch, as oppose to building sets and scheduling for filming. Even for live-action actors, all they think you need to do is just talk into a microphone.
>Even for live-action actors, all they think you need to do is just talk into a microphone
This is why I will forever hate Hollywood celebs replacing genuine voice actors just because of star power. Using balto as an example they're either really good (Bob Hoskins as Boris) or absolute dogshit (Kevin bacon as balto)
Minimum wage is too expensive
paying people sensible rates is too hard for corporate heads
but titmouse is in-house!
Titmouse outsources too, when they're not already outsourcing it to their Canadian studio
>leftists
It’s just ‘thing I don’t like’ now right, what does this word even mean on Cinemaphile
It means people who don't hate gays, minorities and women inherently. They often do but if you don't open with how much you hate troons or Black folk then you are clearly a leftist Marxist troon lover.
>if you don't open with how much you hate troons or Black folk then you are clearly a leftist Marxist troon lover.
true
It's litmus test for post quality: the second you see anyone say "leftist" you can disregard their entire post because they are obviously moronic.
Indeed, what you should really call them is no brained cattle.
ah, there's a moron right now.
Project more dumbass
You homosexuals really trying to cram your dumb surface level politics into fricking everything jesus christ
Unlike the people making cartoons like SU? Suck a dick hypocrite.
That has nothing to do with it you stupid brain dead chimp
Perhaps
Cinemaphile really is moronic
It's true homosexual, these people complain about social justice unions and then enslave indentured minorities to do their work
You have crab mentality.
double.. you missed the word double.
Finally someone noticed. I expected every reply to be a bemused reaction image
The biggest sack of shit from this frame is even pretending that Rebecca or anyone who worked on either Vanilla or Future had "Reference Boards" to draw the characters with
Frick no they we're all being drawn completely by memory and it showed
To be fair, the reference board is way above her head. She ain't looking at it.
I'm sure they did have reference boards, they just didn't look at them.
They obviously did. It's just the references are just for one episode at a time customized for the individual storyboarder
Bullshit. Within the episode the proportions on characters would drastically change.
He's literally shrinking. This has to be edited.
They did have references, some were even posted on Cinemaphile at times. The thing is they were told that the storyboard artist don't need to look at them, that's the issue
So they don't have to do as much work and get paid more to do it.
Why is this accepted? Random South Koreans who could care less about some American cartoon being hired for every modern cartoon. What happened to in-house animation? How is animation more expensive than it was back then if people outsource to South Korea and pay animators pennies?
Shows have been outsourced since the 90s
They started doing it in the 70's
more like the 60s
I know, I'm asking why, not when. Answer my question.
It's less expensive, you crybaby
I'm a crybaby from wanting more from animation? It's just sad you've accepted less quality.
why are we okay with this
We tend to apply bandaids and ductape to problems rather than actually fixing them. I.e. immigration, outsourcing, affirmative action are all alternatives to actual solutions like adjusting for inflation, stoping racist government programs, and governmental incentives
Lmao, they seriously trying to suggest that South Korean outsourced animation studios look that fricking cush?
How can you be a "leftist" and support foreign outsourcing? Leftists are supposed to be pro-worker and against being sold out. All outsourcing does is build up competing infrastructure (while weakening your own) for the sake of business cheapness. It's short-sighted, and bad in the long-run. Even the idiots here must be able to understand this. You've been tricked pretty fricking bad.
I hate everything about he modern animation industry. It needs to go back to being treated like a skilled trade. They mostly like outsourcing because the union keeps them paid well enough to live in Cali while all they do is write, storyboard, and b***h on twitter. I would love to see the new animation deal people deal with old school cel animation.
>would love to see the new animation deal people deal with old school cel animation.
Since you're talking about storyboarders, they would actually love to do that considering vintage storyboards look like this
The boards are no better today. They act like they do everything to make a show though, which they don't because they send it all to Korea to get done for them. I don't see any of the current animation wave being able to do a hundred drawings a day to stay on schedule.
>The boards are no better today.
The boards ARE better today, and that's honestly not good, considering the other pic I sent doesn't look like the final animation, the dialogue is not finished, it doesn't have voice work nor it has SFX and BGMs.
That is not a story board you stupid frick. That is an animatic. I doubt it was done in house as well.
>I doubt it was done in house as well.
?
Do you know what a fricking animatic is, holy shit. Do you think these extra drawings that beat out the keyposes just magically appear when the board artist sends them their file to the editor?
Who do you think has to make these animatics?
The Korean animators because no one in the US has the skill to do it anymore.
Korean animators are hired to animate, not edit animatics. A Korean animator without an animatic is like a headless chicken.
Don't give them so much credit; they are assembly line drones.
And that is why modern cartoons look like shit all the time. Steven Universe sent them shitty boards so you get the weird size issues because no one actually has the skill to guide them. They rather show off for twitter and never improve their abilities.
There's no ability in storyboarding to show because it's never suppose to get seen.
I can also cherry pick things
This is good but I wouldn't expect less from a theatrical movie that's actually just a compilation of classic shorts.
A very valid point. TV animation storyboards and Film animation storyboards are two different beasts. TV storyboard...
...and movie storyboard.
Those xra storyboards are pretty kino
Not really. Film or TV, it's the skill/speed of the boarder themselves that determines how much details they precisely jot down within a limited timeframe. I'll still give you that the usual production times of films helps alleviate some of that crunch though.
Most old boards looked like that because layout, which where those rough scenes were 'polished' up to something the animators/other artists could comprehend, was more its own individual dept, and still even is depending on the studio/show.
Storyboards do not reflect how the final product looks. They are for staging and timing, they're supposed to be this rough.
You're correct, that's how they are SUPPOSED to look. But in the modern industry where the layout department is gone and things have been moved to digital, execs demand more and more of board artists while paying less. They realize they can get away with hiring right out of college and underpaying people who don't realize they shouldn't be doing four jobs in one because they're so starry-eyed to work at Nickelodeon or CartoonNetwork, they would never turn the job down.
I've worked in storyboards until I decided to take a few months break this year and the demand to be clean, on-model, track props, include backgrounds in every shot, put matte fills for everything, use the existing radioplay to draw to-- even sometimes being asked to match the voice actor performance and some of their inflections, and sometimes straight up key frame certain shots (Because they want to guarantee the Korean studio won't mess up the first pass of animation) has got increasingly worse since I started boarding in 2014.
Shit like pic related is not out of the norm.
What the frick? How is this acceptable?
I wanted to get into boarding, not fricking animation, so every time I see shit like this my heart sinks.
I remember people working on TMNT at Flying Bark posting their boards and it was honestly kind of disgusting, they were basically just doing rough animation and unwittingly making aspiring boarders think that shit was the standard.
Was layout phased out purely to cut costs, and when did it start being phased out? are you still in storyboards
Layout phased out naturally when digital became the standard. I wouldn't know exactly when because everything was digital by the time I got into the industry (Roughly 2011 for my first internship, but didn't get a boarding job until 2014).
I'm still in the industry but taking a short break because of arthritis issues.
yet none of the famous storyboarders in the industry are actually able to draw better, and still all piece of advertising about hteir shows pretend they are art geniuses.
Idpol shifting the argument from the struggle of workers and class divide. Now almost everyone sees the left vs right dichotomy pivoted around gays and trannies and brown people
Brown people is literally the same thing as outsourcing. Again, you've been tricked hard.
You guys do realize there's a difference between liberal and leftist, right? Going at length about trans rights and BLM and supporting Joe Biden and all that most certainly doesn't make you a leftist
There really isn't. There's just millennials
and boomers who haven't accepted thet they aren't hip and cool anymore.
because it's fricking cartoons and not anything actually important
I'd say art and it's effect on the populace is pretty fricking important. If all you have is low brow, low effort art the people will reflect that
If your main source of art is children's cartoons then you're lower than people who don't view art at all.
You're right, children should only get low quality trash.
Children get better quality content than the stuff Cinemaphile is obsessed with. What more do you want?
Based pbs chad
So when someone says they should try to make better art for shows you say it doesn't matter because they are kids shows. Now you are saying that kids shows should have good art?
I'm saying it's your own fault for focusing on shit.
It really isn't though. I watch good shit and ignore lazy garbage, which is almost all American shows. You are the one making excuses for them by saying it is for kids. That attitude gives them an easy out and keeps the industry stuck where it is.
Congratulations for discovering how capitalism works.
... are you a bot?
... are you moronic?
I'd apply the same logic to capeshit and it still stands. Our populace isn't challenged by or taught to ask questions by art (widely) anymore. It's used as the circus and we keep buying tickets to the show
Real artists don't do cartoons. They do graphic design and concept drawings.
These are kids shows.
It's just cartoons. Art doesn't matter.
That is my point. People in the American animation industry do not put in as much effort as they let on. They just write and board. There was a time when we did everything but now they just get a base form and idea and ship it overseas. I don't think they could handle the way things were even up to the 80s.
>there was a time when studios had one person doing every job
not really
They did. And every animator, designer and board artist had an assistant.
Animation used to be treated like a trade. Now it's treated like a factory.
>How can you be a "leftist" and support foreign outsourcing?
Because Americans warped the concept of "the left" to being half of the multinational corporations that run their country's economy and cultural sphere, instead of the actual left; workers and the disenfranchised.
Same issue can be found here with the redefining of what a liberal is
where instead of being about personal liberty and freedom from oppression, it's now mindwashing, black nationalism and means you have to vote for the liberal party instead of the other liberal party.
The Democrats have a tendency to betray blue-collar workers, so it's up to the Republicans to cater to them.
>Republicans
>Helping blue-collar workers
lol, both are the same shit
I'm talking history, Black. There was a point in time when the blue-collar voters were uniform Democrat voters, but at some point during the 60s and 70s the Democrats started to drift away from them over time and became increasingly concerned with cultural issues instead of the bread-and-butter issues that the blue-collars care about. They became more concerned with hippies than with workers. That's why you had a good chunk of this formerly solid blue voting base backing Nixon in the 60s.It didn't help too how the Democrats started to mimic the Republicans more and more as the decades rolled by, especially economically. It also pays off to cater to these people since they're easy to please and can be loyal as frick.
Both of them betray workers.
Repubs don't cater to anything but lip service and political stunts. They have no intention of actually changing the situation nor helping with bread-and-butter daily challenges.
Nice repeating dubs.
I'm aware that the Republicans aren't the party of workers either, but the Democrats decided to willingly frick up a solid voter base in favor of alienating them with their liberal nonsense. During this time weird shit went down, like the Hardhat Riot where you had blue-collar conservative guys beating the shit out of dirty hippies.
they are only cultural leftists, they dont give a frick about economics as much as they pretend to like communism and such, actual commies were culturally right
Liberal arent leftist
Shut up moron
I'm okay with outsourcing because I believe in capitalism. Tariffs and what not are government over reach
So you're a homosexual that doesn't care about local jobs and workers, got it
American animators have the option of forming their own company and doing animation in-house. You should be asking why it doesn't happen.
heres the real question
why have we been outsourcing to korea for 30 years? surely some other country is cheaper by now
From what I hear they are starting to. I think it is Philippians or Malaysia now.
im pretty sure some animaniacs and tiny toon eps got outsourced to flipland
wonder why its only now making a comeback
Probably just got to the point where they have enough talent for it to be worth the effort again.
There's been outsourcing to the Philippines and Indonesia, they're probably cheaper
I think the cost-comfort ratio still favors Korean studios. You outsource to the same team and you start to get used to their quirks. Though with Korea exporting more original animations, I imagine we'll see outsourcing shift somewhere else soon.
Canada has been getting most of the work from the US, Ireland for Europe, and any Southeast Asian country fro anything available
at some point animators convinced themselves they didnt go to animation school for the actual animating part of the work
what do they even do on the american side? draw the storyboards that koreans animate?
Character designs, backgrounds, storyboards, writing, voice acting and production.
Basically everything that isn't actually animating, ad even those can be outsourced.
Because it's preferable to pushing a lie that anything is still done domestically.
honestly, every last American animator should be replaced by anime
How many currently shows even use American animators? Smiling Friends is the last show I've seen where the animation credits weren't all Koreans
I think one of the studios behind Castlevania is largely American.
that still utilized Koreans iir
its just a fact of the industry that everything is outsourced
its honestly sad
i thought unions were suppsosed to protect jobs
Anime outsources as well.
JoJo's Bizarre Adventure is where I started noticing it because they at least have the decency to properly credit the Koreans who work on it.
>tfw the Jojo anime is as much of an anime as the Boondocks is
>JoJo's Bizarre Adventure is where I started noticing it because they at least have the decency to properly credit the Koreans who work on it.
Ive always seen Korean Names in credit rolls of Anime several times
i thought jojo was animated by vietnamese
because storyboarders actually literally believe they are the reason for the animation to exist, they send their soiled toilet papers, recever the blood and sweat of 150 slaves for it, and they officially tell on twitter how THEY worked so hard to mae this.
At least when shit was outsourced to the Japanese, shit could look good, but the Koreans are incompetent as frick.
One thing I don't get is why the salary for a Japanese cgi animator is the equivalent of $69,000 a year, but 2d animators get paid like 4x less for what is arguably more labor intensive arduous work than just rigging and manipulating a model
More demand or some weird union bs, maybe?
CGI programs have more technical complexity and using them at all takes longer to learn, so available candidates are scarcer. How "labor intense" a task is has little to do with pay, what matters is how much competition there is, and the harder something is to learn in the first place the more leverage you have to demand better compensation.
japanese would take instructions from the west and fill in the gaps, improving it. they often did character design as well
koreans take the instructions given to them literally. shit instructions, shit product
That godlike work ethic and commitment to quality is why Nihon triumphs over other Asians.
Japanese would be in the same situation as Koreans are today. There is no time in the modern animation pipeline to "improve" anymore.
>koreans take the instructions given to them literally. shit instructions, shit product
The history of animation in Korea is actually pretty fascinating. Most of them were established expressly to do outsource animation, but some were taught by Americans and follow western workflow, and some were taught by the Japanese and have a Japanese workflow.
Nearly all the studios that were set up by Americans have no sense of spacing and timing in their work, because they were only ever meant to do inbetweens. They didn't change even as more and more of the animation process became outsourced, which is why so many cartoons today look and move the way they do. So even when they are working with "anime-esque" designs like many of the DCAU movies, you can tell they're korean by how stiff they feel.
that era where japanese imports of any sort were banned, but they still did outsource work for anime studios led to some amazingly shit knockoffs coming out
and i love it
>that era where japanese imports of any sort were banned
Yeah, that was true of a lot of SE Asian countries (let's just say Japan's friendly, peace-loving image is a very recent development), which led to an interesting phenomenon of anime and manga adaptations made by local artists. I have a bunch of regional Doraemon books that are not part of the canon at all.
can these be read anywhere?
is that why I see so many anime-style artists from Indonesia and Malaysia? damn
Huh, that seems like a really good explanation for why all the 90s Marvel cartoons were so disjointed.
I believe Korean outsourcing was ironically more a Japanese invention than an American one even, as they were doing it as far back as the '60s (the 1967 Ougon Bat adaptation being an early example); though it was usually expected that, if time (this being the keyword here) allowed it, the AD would take that sort of work and correct at least most of it before the deadline, much like they handle work outsourced to 'in-country' studios.
It's why when you see famously infamous examples like pic related (yes, the animation for that episode was in fact Korean outsourced), you can bet 9 times out of 10 they had literally no time to polish up the work they received back, which makes a lot of sense for a show with a production as infamously fricked as Gundam 0079's.
That said,
I think people here have a bit (I'm being generous t b h) of trouble differentiating "off-model" and "poorly drawn". Most of SU's QC issues don't stem from being off-model, it's more that it's mostly handled by people who're clearly less than competent (or at the very least, grossly misguided) at executing the task efficiently.
>it's more that it's mostly handled by people who're clearly less than competent (or at the very least, grossly misguided) at executing the task efficiently.
This is the case. The board artists know how to draw, but they're told to be loose and shit, so when it goes overseas to an animation crew who only know to trace the boards, you get inconsistent results.
I found a Japanese wiki that attributes Gundam's Korean animation to the same source as Tatsunoko's as well.
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%A2%E3%83%8B%E3%83%A1%E3%83%95%E3%83%AC%E3%83%B3%E3%83%89
I guess Anime Friend was behind it all?
>I guess Anime Friend was behind it all?
Their name was featured in the key animation credits for that episode, so yeah.
I think cartoons and anime, old and new, are always gonna be filled with a higher concentration of mediocre to outright bad works than actually good ones. Even then, I at least find one or two highlights here and there regardless of the overall quality.
For me I wish the anime industry wasn't saturated with coomer otakus who flood the market with dime a dozen self insert harem fanservice shows. There's no substance, it's all borderline hentai. I mean don't get me wrong anime's always had male directed fanservice, but it wasn't nearly as all over the place in older series as it is in new ones, unless it was directly advertised as such
>I wish the anime industry wasn't saturated with coomer otakus who flood the market with dime a dozen self insert harem fanservice shows
You're right, but that's also a glass half empty way of looking at things.
Otaku shows are a consequence of an industry that is not only large and diverse, but scales. Studios can find survival and self-sufficiency at multiple levels. They can do big movies, or they can do esoteric shows, or they can do otaku shows that are only watched by 10,000 people that somehow is still commercially viable. That's a plus.
American cartoons don't really have that. If a cartoon doesn't have the backing of a major player like Disney/CN/Nick/Netflix, it pretty much doesn't exist.
Americans used to outsource to Japan until they realized Japan was outsourcing to Korea
That, and even cost can be a legitimate factor, as the "good" Japanese/Korean studios (like Telecom, Mir etc.) can cost quite a bit, at least for their "best" output.
>The board artists know how to draw, but they're told to be loose and shit, so when it goes overseas to an animation crew who only know to trace the boards, you get inconsistent results.
Exactly.
is that glorifying it? that was a 10 second gag.
I always wonder what the Koreans think when they have to animate something like pic related.
I remember the Clerks cartoon commentary saying it took a lot of negotion to get the Korean Animation Studio part of the BIG AMERICAN PARTY ending scene to be done. You know, the scene where they're drawn as scraps wearing indentured slaves as a hulking Mickey Mouse whips them to work.
Wnat glorifying? It was a joke
On paper it seems progressive.
>Giving jobs to non-whites
>Pretend it's fun and not slave labor they pay pennies for
>Mix some orientalism of "look are stuff comes from Korea, that's kinda like Japan!"
In home production will never be real because american (specially the kind to get into the animation industry) are:
a)Expensive as frick and want all to be paid 6 figures just for existing.
b)Problematic as frick with a controversy every 5 seconds (lol sexism, racism, ableism, etc).
c)Never work as hard as the literal sweatshops (like they average 2 hours of productive REAL work)
>glorifying outsourcing?
God forbid giving credit
Do you also believe that santa brings you toys every christmas, or you have been brught by a strok?
why isn't it all done in America
>why isn't it all done in America
Because exes would rather save money and pay a South Korean, Filipino or Taiwanese worker slave wages
>he's a Santa denier
is there even one (1) show in the last 40 years fully animated in the us and not korea/canada/mexico?
Smiling Friends main production company is Princess Bento, an offshoot of Bento Box, located in Australia.
That makes sense though since one of the two creators is descended from rapists and thieves.
Because AI is about to replace all the work that Koreans do right now.
Motion tweening exists already
How can an AI be?
Because Anglos are fricking lazy and very materialistic. Also thats why globohomosexual is a thing especially in Anglosphere.
>off-model during a joke about model sheets
My God
SU is always on model.
cant be off model when there is no model
>haha make it move XD
>greg realizes how off-model he is
Because Anglo Black folk are globohomosexual Black folk. Also they are absolutely creatively bankrupt.
It's a complicated. But basically, these third world nations need the work. And we're the reason they need it - so we have to take responsibility for it.
But Korea and Japan aren't third world nations
*South korea
>why are modern cartoons so okay with glorifying outsourcing
American animation always has and giving people some acknowledgment isn't a crime.
The real question is why are Cartoon fans so defensive of new shit? When someone says old Video games were better then new games there's a majority that agrees with them. Same with movies and Wrestling. Cartoons are the one medium where nostalgia is bad
Who the frick says new cartoons are better than older ones?
How is this "glorifying" anything?