I'm all for it but I couldn't care less about the pairing. It's just that chaining her to Dick is convenient. The guy is way more popular than her so even the waifugays can make her hogs the limetlight as her character usually do. Or he can recovers easily from the blow and frick the new girl next door. It's like two black holes that cancel each other out.
>Babs being a neurotic mess
She's not portrayed as such atm. Same for the age gap who is almost non-existent nowaday.
Well yes a neurotic, aging Christmas cake being teased by a young, fit handsome guy in his prime is also an interesting dynamic.
But their age gap has been lessened lately.
Dick doesn't care about age, he doesn't even pay attention to who's eating, he just gets inside.
Besides, didn't he date a vampire when he was in college? Dala was her name, decades and decades older than him
It's okay, like Damian, Jason was like 2 apples tall.
7 months ago
Anonymous
No. He died at 14-15. He becomes Robin at 12, and he used to be 10 early in post-crisis. DC just magically aged him up to kill him, and then again when he came back.
people who know him primarily from batman will gravitate towards batgirl, since it will naturally feature those two more often
fans of teen titans will prefer him with starfire
while it hasnt been an official thing since the literal 80s with the new teen titans, it has been influential enough that 2003 titans paired him with stafire as well and that perpetuated the pairing to this very day despite not being a thing in the comics
people also fondly remember kingdom come for having starfire and nightwing have their own child, nightstar
Because Taylor writes them as a boring couple. They can and have worked well together in the past but in the last 3ish their dynamic has devolved into sappy one note crap.
Imagine getting heightmogged, hairmogged, superpowermogged, chestmogged, sexmogged, and fitnessmogged all in the span of five seconds.
How does that poor girl keep on living afterwards?
>Mirage rapes Dick, putting a wrench in Dick and Kory's relationship >Tarantula rapes Dick and ends Dick and Bab's relationship >constant brain and status quo rapes end his relationships since New 52
DC is savage as hell, the only way to break up Dick's relationship is to rape him. Who's next?
Hopefully never, a Dickbabs child is literally the most boring option for either of them.
If it's a boy, the next Robin, if it's a girl the next Robin or Batgirl, and if there's two kids, one is Robin and the other is Batgirl. How riveting.
Kory or Kara provides a half alien with powers, Rose provides the drama of Dick’s baby being his archenemy’s grandkid, and Tarantula or any female villain also provides tons of drama and ensures Dick actually keeps one of his villains for once.
I will elaborate from the pov of a zoomer. >Grew up on Teen Titans cartoon, got invested in Dick/Starfire relationship >Grew up on Re-runs of BTAS, Dick and Babs were replaced by Bruce/Babs >Eventually read comics around age 8, Barbara is currently in wheelchair and called Oracle. In the comics I read at the library she dated Blue Beetle further separating her from Dick in my mind. >New 52 launches and Barbara is Batgirl again, Dick is not with her >Rebirth and Dick dates some grafiti girl and a string of randos >Modern day, Dick is dating Barbara a relationship that I've pretty much never seen outside of old comics/flirting in some issues
I accept Dick/Babs but i couldn't give a frick less about it, in my time being invested with DC they pretty much weren't a thing except for "Old flame" moments.
Mostly this
But consider that in the wider context: what are the good works that have DickxBabs? Like, if you were a crotchety old fan and being the gate keeper of taste for future buttholes who go online and ask "what's good old timer," what would you recommend? People still talk about that run of Teen Titans. There's a reason the cartoon, which is relatively ancient now really, went with that stuff.
DickxBabs has the problem of being assumed to be the default and has no fricking stories. It's the Wonder Woman x Superman thing. Why are they together any time they're together? Because they're The Heroine and The Hero. But there's nothing actually there. As actual characters there's nothing. That's Dick and Babs. Why are they together this time? Because they're The Sidekick Boy and Sidekick Girl who are approximately around the same age. That's it. They've got nothing and no one's bothered to give them anything, because why would you need to? It's obvious!
>People still talk about that run of Teen Titans.
And then you read it and realize that it was no wonder Marvel was kicking DC's ass, if that was the best DC was offering then I'd gladly pick up an X-Men or Spider-Man.
It wasn't their "best" but it was their best selling because it was the most in tone like a Marvel comic. Then they used the Crisis to Marvelize their entire line-up to greater success.
Marvel's market share domination is just the norm. It boosted sales for a lot of their titles regardless. People were interested in reading Batman and Superman again, JLI was also a hit.
DickBabs is mostly a very modern creation based on the idea that it "makes sense" given that they're Batman's two most notable sidekicks. This ignores that there was never much there pre-Starfire since Babs was older and largely did her own thing more than act as a sidekick. Dick had a crush on her but his main love interests were more Bette Kane and fricking Duela Dent (well, one-sided on Duela's part). It's Clark/Diana levels and Connor/Cass levels of bad as a ship.
Not that the ship being modern or not change anything like some anons claim it but >put together in media for 30 years now
What media aside YJ in its later seasons, or the GK game IF you play as Babs or maybe Dick? The whole Timmverse aside one movie give no shit about dickbabs or write it off as a fling while Babs is pinning after Bruce. What else is there?
>Timmverse
3 decades, Dick and Barbara have been a constant in DC for 3 decades, you might not like it. But denying this is just a fantasy in your head.
>you might not like it
Don't care, moron. Babs can suck or thirst after the wiener of whoever she wants in canon or in your fanfics. >denying this is just a fantasy
Denying what? That Timm likes BruceBabs? Just asking if there was actually something else.
The BTAS started it and by the mid to late 90s it was already being set up in the comics. That is 30 years.
>in the comics.
I'm specifically asking about the other medias. This is not about whenever dickbabs is legit or not. It's about whenever you shippers are once again reaching when you claim your shits have been mainstream for the past 30 years or not.
Bro, a large chunk of the '90s up until he get his brains blown out, Ted was Babs' main love interest (and that's ignoring the people who shipped ehr with Dinah).
>Bro, a large chunk of the '90s
It's like 5 issues from 98-2000 and after they meet they agree they're better off as friends. The only reason it ever cropped up again was Simone writing about them cyber-sexing after Ted died, and recently in HiC
Not really. Dixon started up BoP with Dick/Babs as end-game, but he wanted it to be a slow burn. So he did the Dick-Babs-Ted and Babs-Dick-Helena love triangles, and had Dick dating Clancy, all for drama.
He didn't do Dick/Helena for love triangle bullshit, he was mad Devin beat him to Dick fricking somebody. Hence why his Helena was written like absolute garbage in the 2-3 issues she actually showed up in his book during No Man's Land.
7 months ago
Anonymous
funny that, becauseDixon was the only batwriter out of him, Moench, and Grant who otherwise wanted to use Helena. Granted Helena usually needs to be wrangled in his stories...
Dixon didn't start up BoP with Dick/Babs as endgame, he didn't even see them as a couple who would last. Dick/Babs has always been a top-down development from editorial.
Cassgays didn't read YJ. Cassgays didn't read 90s Superboy or Byrne's WW. Cassgays don't read anything but Cass.
Why the frick would anyone want to read Byrne's WW?
problem is going by that logic it makes even less sense.
babs should be much much older compared to dick.
to the point where a relationship between them wouldn’t even make sense.
babs original love interest was batman as weird as that sounds.
honestly the bat family time line is all sorts of screwed since new batman writers & editors have fricked with it so much introducting their own oc and trying to “canonize” it.
even if you try to make them same age and screw the timeline it’d still be weird since dick would be the equivalent of an brother to babs in that sense.
its just as off putting as batdad banging batgirl.
>John’s’ boring Superjock/wonder-cheerleader was But the Superboy/Batgirl one is good
moron, Conner/Cassie goes back to PAD where Connor was the lovable meathead jock and Cassie was the awkward ugly duckling. Cass/Connor was some weird ship that was pushed for some reason by a couple of writers even though nobody liked it because it was being pushed while Connor and Cassie were an active and long time couple.
Cass shouldn't be paired with anyone and should just be asexual or something because her only good ship (Steph) should be with Tim.
Cass/Jason is still one of the better options than Cass/Steph or Jason/Steph just because it'd be pretty fricking funny to see pussy do what Bruce never could and get Jason to calm the frick down.
>Cass/Jason
Have those even had any meaningful interactions? I know Jason and Steph have been interacting a lot ever since Task Force Z, but what about Cass?
7 months ago
Anonymous
By all rights, Cass should be utterly disgusted with Jason's numerous murders.
>Cass/Jason
Have those even had any meaningful interactions? I know Jason and Steph have been interacting a lot ever since Task Force Z, but what about Cass?
weirdos
7 months ago
Anonymous
I'm just asking a question, I think everyone in the Bat-Family should have at least 1 meaningful interaction with everyone else, I don't think Cass has spent any real time with Damian or Jason.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Jason doesn't run in the family, and with Damian she had a good interaction in Gates of Gotham
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Jason doesn't run in the family
He became part of the family the moment he became Robin, they care about him and he cares about them.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Bruce, Dick, Jason, Tim, and Damian should be the only ones having meaningful interactions, and maybe Barbara as she's so closely tied to Dick. Cass should remain on the periphery as an affiliate or associate of the "family", nothing more.
>Cass/Jason is still one of the better options
no it's not. It's fricking stupid. >pussy do what Bruce never could and get Jason to calm the frick down.
are you Johns and want Jason to beg for crumbs of pussy to be a good boy?
>Cass/Jason
have a nice day. Jason worked fine with Artemis and in general needs someone who will be able to counter his hothead nature and who won't put up with his shit. Honestly Jason should have never come back but that's neither here nor there.
Cass doesn't need to be with anyone because romance doesn't work with her character. She doesn't need to be a silent badass but she needs a core group of close friends that she values to counter her father's cold indifference to personal relationships. A romantic relationship cheapens that because she doesn't really have the mindset or emotional maturity for one.
>Bro, a large chunk of the '90s
It's like 5 issues from 98-2000 and after they meet they agree they're better off as friends. The only reason it ever cropped up again was Simone writing about them cyber-sexing after Ted died, and recently in HiC
It comes up because it was a cute relationship between two characters with natural chemistry. Babs is the hot librarian who Ted feels is out of his league but Ted's a nice, reliable, caring guy who can also make her laugh. They're both normal, grounded people without a lot of hang ups and can connect in a way where their superhero work doesn't even enter into it.
>In the comics I read at the library she dated Blue Beetle further separating her from Dick in my mind.
They never dated and Ted was in less than 20 BOP issues lmao
but most of Dickbabs happened in Nightwing where Babs was pretty much the second protag until Devin Grayson broke them up and Bludhaven got blown up.
BOP, Gotham Knights, Batgirl YO and other bat titles were the secondary Dickbabs sources.
Comic vine says 64 but I'd say at least a dozen of those are after Devin Grayson's run. Nightwing YO, a few cameos, and a couple ship teases in Tomasi's run.
Here's my POV as a millennial. >Grew up watching BTAS/TAoB&R which pushed DickBabs >Watched Batman & Robin in 1997 which pushed DickBabs >Started reading Nightwing in 1997 which also pushed DickBabs >Grow out of comics. >Discover Z-Cult FM in 2004 and read every post-crisis Batman comic and every Titans comic ever published. >Watch Dick/Babs get treated as end-game over the next 20 years. >Watch Kory get treated as the friendly ex you hook up with once every few years for nostalgia's sake.
I didn't watch the later DCAU stuff and didn't watch the Teen Titans cartoon.
Crazy how just a couple years difference completely changes someone's take on a gorup of characters.
I think that difference is what's going to keep DC in cycles. My GL was John Stewart/Hal Jordan but plenty of people miss Kyle, Wally got replaced by Barry by gen x writers who missed Barry, I Miss Nightwing as Batman etc. Eventually we're gonna get returns to these things because the people who grew up with them will one day write comics bringing it back, I assume we'll get a starfire/dick relationship again unless they commit to marrying babs/dick like they did for Arrow/Canary.
>Grew up watching BTAS/TAoB&R which pushed DickBabs
It's peculiar how so many people ended up with this impression. He was her bothersome college friend in Batgirl Returns (interrupting her Batman fantasy), they got together in the SubZero DTV, and then TNBA had them broken up with her pining for him but him wanting nothing to do with her. >Watched Batman & Robin in 1997 which pushed DickBabs
That wasn't Barbara Gordon, it was Alfred's blonde niece, Barbara Wilson.
I mean, I clearly said I didn't watch TNBA. I remember her dreaming of Batman but dating Dick, not realizing that Bruce and Dick were actually Batman and Robin. And in B&R she was Batgirl and her name was Barbara. That's like saying the 70s Hulk series wasn't about Bruce just because they called him David.
>I remember her dreaming of Batman but dating Dick
She only dated Dick in the movie. >And in B&R she was Batgirl and her name was Barbara. That's like saying the 70s Hulk series wasn't about Bruce just because they called him David.
That's a superficial change because the tv producers thought Bruce wasn't masculine enough. B&R Barbara has an entirely different background and origin.
Gordon was a such a small character in Burton/Schumacherverse, it made sense to make her Alfred's niece instead of Jim's.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Earth One Jim Gordon wasn't exactly a fully-developed character. It was Barbara Gordon's very existence that made him more of one since he had to have a more prominent role in her solo adventures on account of being her father. And then it was Frank Miller who really pushed Gordon in the 80s.
>It's peculiar how so many people ended up with this impression. He was her bothersome college friend in Batgirl Returns (interrupting her Batman fantasy), they got together in the SubZero DTV, and then TNBA had them broken up with her pining for him but him wanting nothing to do with her.
Their chemistry was THAT good. Plus the BTAS tie-in comics also teased it. What;'s funny is that people were already comlaining about Babs/Bruce by 2004.
https://dcanimated.com/WF/batman/btas/backstage/animato/ >Fans of the series will be delighted at references to earlier episodes (some will even recognize the officer from "P.O.V") but be disappointed at the change in Batgirl's affections. Both the previous Batgirl episode and in the "Batman Adventures" comics have established chemistry between Batgirl and Robin. But the dream sequence in the first act shows that she is crazy about Batman-- something never even hinted at in the show's continuity.
It's just because they assume "Younger guy on team and Younger girl on team=dating or interested eachother by default" like
Mostly this
But consider that in the wider context: what are the good works that have DickxBabs? Like, if you were a crotchety old fan and being the gate keeper of taste for future buttholes who go online and ask "what's good old timer," what would you recommend? People still talk about that run of Teen Titans. There's a reason the cartoon, which is relatively ancient now really, went with that stuff.
DickxBabs has the problem of being assumed to be the default and has no fricking stories. It's the Wonder Woman x Superman thing. Why are they together any time they're together? Because they're The Heroine and The Hero. But there's nothing actually there. As actual characters there's nothing. That's Dick and Babs. Why are they together this time? Because they're The Sidekick Boy and Sidekick Girl who are approximately around the same age. That's it. They've got nothing and no one's bothered to give them anything, because why would you need to? It's obvious!
said. The closest thing to Chemistry they've ever had was back when Barbara used to tease him to manipulate him back when she used to thirst after Bruce.
A lot of it is just being purposefully obtuse. Dick/Kory's most prominent thing in the last 30 years has been the TT cartoon..who's fans are infamous for NOT caring about the comic versions, anyway. Then there's the DCAMU movies..which got no where near the amount of watchers as BTAS, or the Titans HBO Max show, which is an embarrassment.
And then you have people act as if Bruce/Babs was a major thing in the DCAU...it's all of 2 minutes, tops. a dream sequence in BTAS, a mention in one Beyond episode, and Bruce looking at a photo of the two in another. They aren't together in TNBA. The Batwoman movie hints at it but being that it came out years after TNBA ended and was a DTV, it got fewer viewers.
>A lot of it is just being purposefully obtuse.
He said while being purposefully obtuse >The TT show was and still is massively popular also TTGO is a thing >BTAS being more popular doesn't matter when you now have an entire generation n that never saw it, while the DCAU starfire clip goes viral every few months. >Titans sucks but it apparently rakes in a pretty large audience >Bruce/Babs wasn't a major thing in the DCAU...but it was still very prominently there. Not to mention Killing Joke cementing it in the current era.
The fact is that their just hasn't been any major Batgirl Nightwing media.
Nobody is being purposely obtuse, your ship is just lame and boring which is why most people hate it. DickBabsgays have to constantly pull from outside media to justify it since there's nothing in the comics that supports it before the past like 15 years.
Wasn't she with Bruce, I think she even got pregnant while Dick was away in a mission or sole shit.
Why do you want Dick to be with that cheating prostitute?
Other people have already explained it very well, but it's worth mentioning that at the time of their introduction Babs was already a full adult while Dick was still 10. So that's partly to blame for why there's no real history there to draw from.
Babs was first introduced in the Adam West Batman TV show. Dick was meant to be around 18 then and Babs was in her 20s. Babs was then introduced into the comics in 1967 and by then Dick was already an older teen. Since 2 years later in 1969 Dick started college.
I've enjoyed the fun parts of Taylor's run where it is more the day to day life of a superhero with Dick and Babs together instead of the longer plots he has tried to do.
>It's entirely one-sided for Dick Grayson and trivialize Babs into just being his gf.
This sounds more like any Bruce Wayne ship. As much as I loath that smelly Australian, Tom Taylor's has been doing a good job of making Babs' Dick's equal instead of a sidekick.
I'd be fine with Dickbabs if they were both older, but that would require them to actually retire Bruce and they never will. Mid-20s "le quirky just like me! xD" Babs will never be a good character no matter how much they push it.
For Batgirl fans, the one true Batgirl is the one who existed from 1967-1983 before Len Wein benched the character because he hated her. The 25 year old PhD who became a House Representative. Making her the same age as Dick and his love interest is a downgrade in status.
>For Batgirl fans, the one true Batgirl is the one who existed from 1967-1983 before Len Wein benched the character because he hated her. The 25 year old PhD who became a House Representative. Making her the same age as Dick and his love interest is a downgrade in status.
Speak for yourself, I like Babsgirl, I like Dickbabs, DC does some shit but I'm glad her legs are working again.
The same people who get angry at me for liking Bruce/Babs will be like herrderrr he cucked Dick herrderrr and then turn around and tell me Dick/Starfire is better than Dick/Babs.
personally it's because in the 70s she was like 10 yrs older than him and in congress while he was in college and was much closer in age to bruce. plus I just genrally like starfire more
Babs isn't really interesting and their dynamic wasn't really that good even before Babs had the baggage of trying to be every positive female stereotype at once.
What I don't get is why do casuals like Dickkory so much more?
All they have is a cartoon from 20 years ago, TTG (which most people hate), and the recent live action show (which most people hate).
Dickbabs has DCAU/BTAS (much more beloved, and no, the average casual doesnt know about the cuckery), Young Justice, the 2004 Batman show, the Arkham games, and Gotham Knights.
I literally never see Dickbabs go viral outside of comic book twitter like Dickkory does.
>What I don't get is why do casuals like Dickkory so much more?
Because of the terrible cartoon which dumbed down Starfire and Dick into palpable characters unlike the terrible comic which meandered for years.
>the 2004 Batman show,
They acted more like stepsiblings. Barbara was also way too tall for him. >the Arkham games,
They ended up going with the crackship of Tim/Babs.
Kori was created to be Dick's love interest and has a personality that just meshes well and has better chemistry with him. Babs doesn't have that and never will because that's not what her character was created for, so you have to make an actual concentrated effort to give them a natural-seeming romance without also sabotaging Babs' character.
>Kori was created to be Dick's love interest and has a personality that just meshes well and has better chemistry with him.
I still can’t think of a story with Kory that gif me hooked like BOP did with Dick and Babs at the circus. Wolfman can’t write romance or females to safe his life.
Because "More serious but still approachable "cool" guy who broods occasionally" and "Bubbly sex bomb with a heartfelt and hopeful side" is a very simple set up that creates a clear and organic dynamic, and it helped build Dick's character by highlighting that his difference and thus independence from Bruce since it gave him a strong relationship that worked off of mutual trust and support where he lets someone in, as well as the obvious and simple contrast of "Dick actually works with people who he doesn't basically own body and soul" compared to how most of the Batfamily is usually near completely dependent on Bruce to some extent or another.
Starfire in general seems to be more popular with casuals. The only time Babs gets attention is casuals mad her movie got canned and deluding themselves into believing it was gonna be good.
Starfire is a beautiful woman who's strong and has an enjoyable personality that's mostly bubbly, free spirited, and confident but can be a strong warrior when she needs to be. No fricking shit she's popular.
Unironically it's because black women/gays latched onto her after they made her black in the Titans show. The dude who made that thread in your pic is a black gay dude and I guarantee you most of his mutuals are black women.
It's also helps that Perez nailed her aesthetics and color scheme when first designing her, making drawing her fun for artists. If she were a generic white looking alien like Superman she wouldn't have near as much fanart. But the big hair, solid green eyes and orange skin make her pop.
> Babs was in 2 episode f the 3 season of BTAS > Qhe lust after Batman > Nightniwg make 2 cameos in TNBA > he shut off Babs when she start flirting with him at Bruce's marriage
The average casual doesn't know about dickbabs in BTAS either. It's a "squint your eyes to see it" thing, even when you aren't a normie. >the Arkham games
She is married to Tim and nothing else is ever hinted at. Nightwing is an afterthought or DLC in these games.
They moved in to Internet forums and anime, a toxic combination
TT2003 fans barely like comics(Perez art is too ugly for them) and when they do they just try to shape it to what they want it to have been (see the Gabriel Picolo books where Beast boy is a brown brazillian guy who dates Raven)
because there's like zero good comics featuring the relationship? Plus, whenever Babs shows up Dicks has to get super nerfed so hype her up, the current run being a perfect example.
Dick Starfire is the OTP, Babs is for Mothman, or being a lonely cat lady. Babs is just fricking boring.
Babs being a neurotic mess is way more interesting than anything Kory’s been
I'm all for it but I couldn't care less about the pairing. It's just that chaining her to Dick is convenient. The guy is way more popular than her so even the waifugays can make her hogs the limetlight as her character usually do. Or he can recovers easily from the blow and frick the new girl next door. It's like two black holes that cancel each other out.
>Babs being a neurotic mess
She's not portrayed as such atm. Same for the age gap who is almost non-existent nowaday.
Isn’t babs over a decade older than Dick?
Well yes a neurotic, aging Christmas cake being teased by a young, fit handsome guy in his prime is also an interesting dynamic.
But their age gap has been lessened lately.
Dick doesn't care about age, he doesn't even pay attention to who's eating, he just gets inside.
Besides, didn't he date a vampire when he was in college? Dala was her name, decades and decades older than him
>lately
They’d been the same age since 2006
Ised to be, but she's been retconned to being his contemporary.
So you’re telling me I won’t get my /ss/ where college aged Barbara is seduced by middle schooler Dick?
Yes
Better
This is more like Jason and Babs.
Jason becomes Robin at 14 or 15.
It's okay, like Damian, Jason was like 2 apples tall.
No. He died at 14-15. He becomes Robin at 12, and he used to be 10 early in post-crisis. DC just magically aged him up to kill him, and then again when he came back.
Pre-Crisis she was ~7 years older.
Post-Crisis it was 2-3 years.
Since Final Crisis they've been the same age.
She was initially aged down because DC didn't think BatGIRL should be in her late 20s.
Babs is for Batwing Luke.
the pairing that the fangirls memoryholed?
people who know him primarily from batman will gravitate towards batgirl, since it will naturally feature those two more often
fans of teen titans will prefer him with starfire
while it hasnt been an official thing since the literal 80s with the new teen titans, it has been influential enough that 2003 titans paired him with stafire as well and that perpetuated the pairing to this very day despite not being a thing in the comics
people also fondly remember kingdom come for having starfire and nightwing have their own child, nightstar
You don't think Starfire x Dick is a thing in the comics? because uhh
Because, the only one who can frick babs is me. Yeah I said it, everyone else is thinking about it.
Because Taylor writes them as a boring couple. They can and have worked well together in the past but in the last 3ish their dynamic has devolved into sappy one note crap.
Yeah on Planet moron
Why does Babs look like a boy
They aged her down to Dick's age in that run, guess she's a late bloomer.
Image source?
Is this the most brutal mogging in all of DC?
Maybe this one.
Mirage doesn't seem to be enjoying it
until she used Kory's image to frick Dick.
Imagine getting heightmogged, hairmogged, superpowermogged, chestmogged, sexmogged, and fitnessmogged all in the span of five seconds.
How does that poor girl keep on living afterwards?
What really makes this funny is that Barbara is in heels.
dick, you dick
Dick wasn't a dick here.
The page clearly spells it out.
Barbara waited too long, Dick found somebody else.
Kory literally gets cucked in this one, but you homies don’t read.
>Mirage rapes Dick, putting a wrench in Dick and Kory's relationship
>Tarantula rapes Dick and ends Dick and Bab's relationship
>constant brain and status quo rapes end his relationships since New 52
DC is savage as hell, the only way to break up Dick's relationship is to rape him. Who's next?
Pregnant arc when
Hopefully never, a Dickbabs child is literally the most boring option for either of them.
If it's a boy, the next Robin, if it's a girl the next Robin or Batgirl, and if there's two kids, one is Robin and the other is Batgirl. How riveting.
Dick having a kid with Babs would be so boring.
Kory or Kara provides a half alien with powers, Rose provides the drama of Dick’s baby being his archenemy’s grandkid, and Tarantula or any female villain also provides tons of drama and ensures Dick actually keeps one of his villains for once.
I will elaborate from the pov of a zoomer.
>Grew up on Teen Titans cartoon, got invested in Dick/Starfire relationship
>Grew up on Re-runs of BTAS, Dick and Babs were replaced by Bruce/Babs
>Eventually read comics around age 8, Barbara is currently in wheelchair and called Oracle. In the comics I read at the library she dated Blue Beetle further separating her from Dick in my mind.
>New 52 launches and Barbara is Batgirl again, Dick is not with her
>Rebirth and Dick dates some grafiti girl and a string of randos
>Modern day, Dick is dating Barbara a relationship that I've pretty much never seen outside of old comics/flirting in some issues
I accept Dick/Babs but i couldn't give a frick less about it, in my time being invested with DC they pretty much weren't a thing except for "Old flame" moments.
Mostly this
But consider that in the wider context: what are the good works that have DickxBabs? Like, if you were a crotchety old fan and being the gate keeper of taste for future buttholes who go online and ask "what's good old timer," what would you recommend? People still talk about that run of Teen Titans. There's a reason the cartoon, which is relatively ancient now really, went with that stuff.
DickxBabs has the problem of being assumed to be the default and has no fricking stories. It's the Wonder Woman x Superman thing. Why are they together any time they're together? Because they're The Heroine and The Hero. But there's nothing actually there. As actual characters there's nothing. That's Dick and Babs. Why are they together this time? Because they're The Sidekick Boy and Sidekick Girl who are approximately around the same age. That's it. They've got nothing and no one's bothered to give them anything, because why would you need to? It's obvious!
>People still talk about that run of Teen Titans.
And then you read it and realize that it was no wonder Marvel was kicking DC's ass, if that was the best DC was offering then I'd gladly pick up an X-Men or Spider-Man.
It wasn't their "best" but it was their best selling because it was the most in tone like a Marvel comic. Then they used the Crisis to Marvelize their entire line-up to greater success.
>Then they used the Crisis to Marvelize their entire line-up to greater success.
You mean the great success that lasted for four months?
Marvel's market share domination is just the norm. It boosted sales for a lot of their titles regardless. People were interested in reading Batman and Superman again, JLI was also a hit.
DickBabs is mostly a very modern creation based on the idea that it "makes sense" given that they're Batman's two most notable sidekicks. This ignores that there was never much there pre-Starfire since Babs was older and largely did her own thing more than act as a sidekick. Dick had a crush on her but his main love interests were more Bette Kane and fricking Duela Dent (well, one-sided on Duela's part). It's Clark/Diana levels and Connor/Cass levels of bad as a ship.
Can you call it modern when Dick and Babs have been put together in media and comics for 30 years now?
Not that the ship being modern or not change anything like some anons claim it but
>put together in media for 30 years now
What media aside YJ in its later seasons, or the GK game IF you play as Babs or maybe Dick? The whole Timmverse aside one movie give no shit about dickbabs or write it off as a fling while Babs is pinning after Bruce. What else is there?
>Anon wants Geoff's fanfic to be canon
Shesh...
The BTAS started it and by the mid to late 90s it was already being set up in the comics. That is 30 years.
>Timmverse
3 decades, Dick and Barbara have been a constant in DC for 3 decades, you might not like it. But denying this is just a fantasy in your head.
>you might not like it
Don't care, moron. Babs can suck or thirst after the wiener of whoever she wants in canon or in your fanfics.
>denying this is just a fantasy
Denying what? That Timm likes BruceBabs? Just asking if there was actually something else.
>in the comics.
I'm specifically asking about the other medias. This is not about whenever dickbabs is legit or not. It's about whenever you shippers are once again reaching when you claim your shits have been mainstream for the past 30 years or not.
Bro, a large chunk of the '90s up until he get his brains blown out, Ted was Babs' main love interest (and that's ignoring the people who shipped ehr with Dinah).
>Bro, a large chunk of the '90s
It's like 5 issues from 98-2000 and after they meet they agree they're better off as friends. The only reason it ever cropped up again was Simone writing about them cyber-sexing after Ted died, and recently in HiC
Not really. Dixon started up BoP with Dick/Babs as end-game, but he wanted it to be a slow burn. So he did the Dick-Babs-Ted and Babs-Dick-Helena love triangles, and had Dick dating Clancy, all for drama.
He didn't do Dick/Helena for love triangle bullshit, he was mad Devin beat him to Dick fricking somebody. Hence why his Helena was written like absolute garbage in the 2-3 issues she actually showed up in his book during No Man's Land.
funny that, becauseDixon was the only batwriter out of him, Moench, and Grant who otherwise wanted to use Helena. Granted Helena usually needs to be wrangled in his stories...
Dixon didn't start up BoP with Dick/Babs as endgame, he didn't even see them as a couple who would last. Dick/Babs has always been a top-down development from editorial.
Why the frick would anyone want to read Byrne's WW?
problem is going by that logic it makes even less sense.
babs should be much much older compared to dick.
to the point where a relationship between them wouldn’t even make sense.
babs original love interest was batman as weird as that sounds.
honestly the bat family time line is all sorts of screwed since new batman writers & editors have fricked with it so much introducting their own oc and trying to “canonize” it.
even if you try to make them same age and screw the timeline it’d still be weird since dick would be the equivalent of an brother to babs in that sense.
its just as off putting as batdad banging batgirl.
>Connor/Cass levels of bad as a ship
John’s’ boring Superjock/wonder-cheerleader was But the Superboy/Batgirl one is good
>John’s’ boring Superjock/wonder-cheerleader was But the Superboy/Batgirl one is good
moron, Conner/Cassie goes back to PAD where Connor was the lovable meathead jock and Cassie was the awkward ugly duckling. Cass/Connor was some weird ship that was pushed for some reason by a couple of writers even though nobody liked it because it was being pushed while Connor and Cassie were an active and long time couple.
Cass shouldn't be paired with anyone and should just be asexual or something because her only good ship (Steph) should be with Tim.
Cass/Jason is still one of the better options than Cass/Steph or Jason/Steph just because it'd be pretty fricking funny to see pussy do what Bruce never could and get Jason to calm the frick down.
>Cass/Jason
Have those even had any meaningful interactions? I know Jason and Steph have been interacting a lot ever since Task Force Z, but what about Cass?
By all rights, Cass should be utterly disgusted with Jason's numerous murders.
weirdos
I'm just asking a question, I think everyone in the Bat-Family should have at least 1 meaningful interaction with everyone else, I don't think Cass has spent any real time with Damian or Jason.
Jason doesn't run in the family, and with Damian she had a good interaction in Gates of Gotham
>Jason doesn't run in the family
He became part of the family the moment he became Robin, they care about him and he cares about them.
Bruce, Dick, Jason, Tim, and Damian should be the only ones having meaningful interactions, and maybe Barbara as she's so closely tied to Dick. Cass should remain on the periphery as an affiliate or associate of the "family", nothing more.
That makes no sense.
>Cass/Jason is still one of the better options
no it's not. It's fricking stupid.
>pussy do what Bruce never could and get Jason to calm the frick down.
are you Johns and want Jason to beg for crumbs of pussy to be a good boy?
>Cass/Jason
have a nice day. Jason worked fine with Artemis and in general needs someone who will be able to counter his hothead nature and who won't put up with his shit. Honestly Jason should have never come back but that's neither here nor there.
Cass doesn't need to be with anyone because romance doesn't work with her character. She doesn't need to be a silent badass but she needs a core group of close friends that she values to counter her father's cold indifference to personal relationships. A romantic relationship cheapens that because she doesn't really have the mindset or emotional maturity for one.
It comes up because it was a cute relationship between two characters with natural chemistry. Babs is the hot librarian who Ted feels is out of his league but Ted's a nice, reliable, caring guy who can also make her laugh. They're both normal, grounded people without a lot of hang ups and can connect in a way where their superhero work doesn't even enter into it.
The fact that they're both called Cassandra makes it a bit confusing, even if they're usually referred as Cass and Cassie.
Cassgays didn't read YJ. Cassgays didn't read 90s Superboy or Byrne's WW. Cassgays don't read anything but Cass.
Oh don't get me wrong, David's take on it was cute. But John's version lessened them both as characters.
>In the comics I read at the library she dated Blue Beetle further separating her from Dick in my mind.
They never dated and Ted was in less than 20 BOP issues lmao
How many issues was Dick in?
comic vien says 23
but most of Dickbabs happened in Nightwing where Babs was pretty much the second protag until Devin Grayson broke them up and Bludhaven got blown up.
BOP, Gotham Knights, Batgirl YO and other bat titles were the secondary Dickbabs sources.
>Gotham Knights
So much potential
Why is she of all people kicking a cop
you say this as if her dad's biggest story doesn't involve him beating the shit out of another cop and leaving him nude.
How many Nightwing issues is Barbara in? Nightwing is more important than Birds of Prey.
Comic vine says 64 but I'd say at least a dozen of those are after Devin Grayson's run. Nightwing YO, a few cameos, and a couple ship teases in Tomasi's run.
Anon, we're talking comics here.
That cover looks like a a Kinnikumam tag finisher
Here's my POV as a millennial.
>Grew up watching BTAS/TAoB&R which pushed DickBabs
>Watched Batman & Robin in 1997 which pushed DickBabs
>Started reading Nightwing in 1997 which also pushed DickBabs
>Grow out of comics.
>Discover Z-Cult FM in 2004 and read every post-crisis Batman comic and every Titans comic ever published.
>Watch Dick/Babs get treated as end-game over the next 20 years.
>Watch Kory get treated as the friendly ex you hook up with once every few years for nostalgia's sake.
I didn't watch the later DCAU stuff and didn't watch the Teen Titans cartoon.
Crazy how just a couple years difference completely changes someone's take on a gorup of characters.
I think that difference is what's going to keep DC in cycles. My GL was John Stewart/Hal Jordan but plenty of people miss Kyle, Wally got replaced by Barry by gen x writers who missed Barry, I Miss Nightwing as Batman etc. Eventually we're gonna get returns to these things because the people who grew up with them will one day write comics bringing it back, I assume we'll get a starfire/dick relationship again unless they commit to marrying babs/dick like they did for Arrow/Canary.
>Grew up watching BTAS/TAoB&R which pushed DickBabs
It's peculiar how so many people ended up with this impression. He was her bothersome college friend in Batgirl Returns (interrupting her Batman fantasy), they got together in the SubZero DTV, and then TNBA had them broken up with her pining for him but him wanting nothing to do with her.
>Watched Batman & Robin in 1997 which pushed DickBabs
That wasn't Barbara Gordon, it was Alfred's blonde niece, Barbara Wilson.
I mean, I clearly said I didn't watch TNBA. I remember her dreaming of Batman but dating Dick, not realizing that Bruce and Dick were actually Batman and Robin. And in B&R she was Batgirl and her name was Barbara. That's like saying the 70s Hulk series wasn't about Bruce just because they called him David.
>I remember her dreaming of Batman but dating Dick
She only dated Dick in the movie.
>And in B&R she was Batgirl and her name was Barbara. That's like saying the 70s Hulk series wasn't about Bruce just because they called him David.
That's a superficial change because the tv producers thought Bruce wasn't masculine enough. B&R Barbara has an entirely different background and origin.
Gordon was a such a small character in Burton/Schumacherverse, it made sense to make her Alfred's niece instead of Jim's.
Earth One Jim Gordon wasn't exactly a fully-developed character. It was Barbara Gordon's very existence that made him more of one since he had to have a more prominent role in her solo adventures on account of being her father. And then it was Frank Miller who really pushed Gordon in the 80s.
>It's peculiar how so many people ended up with this impression. He was her bothersome college friend in Batgirl Returns (interrupting her Batman fantasy), they got together in the SubZero DTV, and then TNBA had them broken up with her pining for him but him wanting nothing to do with her.
Their chemistry was THAT good. Plus the BTAS tie-in comics also teased it. What;'s funny is that people were already comlaining about Babs/Bruce by 2004.
https://dcanimated.com/WF/batman/btas/backstage/animato/
>Fans of the series will be delighted at references to earlier episodes (some will even recognize the officer from "P.O.V") but be disappointed at the change in Batgirl's affections. Both the previous Batgirl episode and in the "Batman Adventures" comics have established chemistry between Batgirl and Robin. But the dream sequence in the first act shows that she is crazy about Batman-- something never even hinted at in the show's continuity.
It's just because they assume "Younger guy on team and Younger girl on team=dating or interested eachother by default" like
said. The closest thing to Chemistry they've ever had was back when Barbara used to tease him to manipulate him back when she used to thirst after Bruce.
A lot of it is just being purposefully obtuse. Dick/Kory's most prominent thing in the last 30 years has been the TT cartoon..who's fans are infamous for NOT caring about the comic versions, anyway. Then there's the DCAMU movies..which got no where near the amount of watchers as BTAS, or the Titans HBO Max show, which is an embarrassment.
And then you have people act as if Bruce/Babs was a major thing in the DCAU...it's all of 2 minutes, tops. a dream sequence in BTAS, a mention in one Beyond episode, and Bruce looking at a photo of the two in another. They aren't together in TNBA. The Batwoman movie hints at it but being that it came out years after TNBA ended and was a DTV, it got fewer viewers.
>A lot of it is just being purposefully obtuse.
He said while being purposefully obtuse
>The TT show was and still is massively popular also TTGO is a thing
>BTAS being more popular doesn't matter when you now have an entire generation n that never saw it, while the DCAU starfire clip goes viral every few months.
>Titans sucks but it apparently rakes in a pretty large audience
>Bruce/Babs wasn't a major thing in the DCAU...but it was still very prominently there. Not to mention Killing Joke cementing it in the current era.
The fact is that their just hasn't been any major Batgirl Nightwing media.
Nobody is being purposely obtuse, your ship is just lame and boring which is why most people hate it. DickBabsgays have to constantly pull from outside media to justify it since there's nothing in the comics that supports it before the past like 15 years.
Babs starts at 25 when Dick was 13-15.
Dick's love life needs a good kick in the balls. Any day now, DC.
sauce?
Wasn't she with Bruce, I think she even got pregnant while Dick was away in a mission or sole shit.
Why do you want Dick to be with that cheating prostitute?
That was just in the comic based off the Batman Beyond series that came out 15 years later or something.
Other people have already explained it very well, but it's worth mentioning that at the time of their introduction Babs was already a full adult while Dick was still 10. So that's partly to blame for why there's no real history there to draw from.
Babs was first introduced in the Adam West Batman TV show. Dick was meant to be around 18 then and Babs was in her 20s. Babs was then introduced into the comics in 1967 and by then Dick was already an older teen. Since 2 years later in 1969 Dick started college.
Yeah, Dick was in high school whereas Babs literally had a phD. She was way too old for any serious romance to happen.
I've enjoyed the fun parts of Taylor's run where it is more the day to day life of a superhero with Dick and Babs together instead of the longer plots he has tried to do.
I liked Barbara better when she was significantly older than Dick and was a sexy librarian before becoming Batgirl.
When will she find Jason's letter?
Three Jokers was the DC equivalent of One More Day
Babs would fricking kick Jason in the nuts if she found that letter.
Batfamily?
More like Bat-incestous-harem, holy frick!
Only 3 men can satisfy Babs’ needs:
1. James Gordon Jr
2. Killer Moth
3. Luke Fox
Dick Grayson, Jason Bard, Ted Kord are lame for her.
It's entirely one-sided for Dick Grayson and trivialize Babs into just being his gf.
>It's entirely one-sided for Dick Grayson and trivialize Babs into just being his gf.
This sounds more like any Bruce Wayne ship. As much as I loath that smelly Australian, Tom Taylor's has been doing a good job of making Babs' Dick's equal instead of a sidekick.
Yeah and just like the Dixon and Devin runs he's emulating he just had to dumb Dick down severely for her to be his equal.
>Why are people so against Dickbabs?
Because its boring and it's been so many time. Kinda like how every writer tries to cripple Babs.
most people like starfire better because of the teen titans cartoon while babs is too "safe" & predictable from a writing standpoint.
because babs as a cripple was a more interesting character. babs from the new 52 onward just feels like a YA protagonist.
>babs from the new 52 onward just feels like a YA protagonist
God forbid someone makes Batgirl for teenage girls.
Harley appeals to teenage and millennial women far more than Babs ever will.
God forbid DC uses Steph for that instead of deaging Babs again while infantilizing her and changing her whole personality.
They changed Steph's personality more then they changed Bab's.
Maybe people would like uncrippled babsgirl if she had any good comics but...
She had more good comics then Cass or Steph tho.
Cass has Kelley Puckett, Steph has Bryan Q Miller, Barbara has uh...
NTA but if people asked for good Babs comics I'd send them Beatty/Dixon's Batgirl Year One, Dixon, Simone, and Bedard BoP, and Larson Batgirl.
>Larson Batgirl.
Nah, I’d point them to Scott Batgirl.
>because babs as a cripple was a more interesting character.
It doesn't when it's been done a hundred times
the idea of batgirl is immensely hot
>female batman
>young and inexperienced
>sucks
>gets kidnapped or captured a lot
>bondage
>occasional catfights
isnt she fricking batman currently?
I'd be fine with Dickbabs if they were both older, but that would require them to actually retire Bruce and they never will. Mid-20s "le quirky just like me! xD" Babs will never be a good character no matter how much they push it.
Boring and bland, it’s just like Superman and Wonder-Woman.
people seethe at this?
For Batgirl fans, the one true Batgirl is the one who existed from 1967-1983 before Len Wein benched the character because he hated her. The 25 year old PhD who became a House Representative. Making her the same age as Dick and his love interest is a downgrade in status.
>For Batgirl fans, the one true Batgirl is the one who existed from 1967-1983 before Len Wein benched the character because he hated her. The 25 year old PhD who became a House Representative. Making her the same age as Dick and his love interest is a downgrade in status.
Speak for yourself, I like Babsgirl, I like Dickbabs, DC does some shit but I'm glad her legs are working again.
Unironically yes
Dick flirting is too much fun to lose
The same people who get angry at me for liking Bruce/Babs will be like herrderrr he cucked Dick herrderrr and then turn around and tell me Dick/Starfire is better than Dick/Babs.
I laughed when people even got upset at this. I’ll never understand how people want the same story over and over and over again.
personally it's because in the 70s she was like 10 yrs older than him and in congress while he was in college and was much closer in age to bruce. plus I just genrally like starfire more
Babs isn't really interesting and their dynamic wasn't really that good even before Babs had the baggage of trying to be every positive female stereotype at once.
What I don't get is why do casuals like Dickkory so much more?
All they have is a cartoon from 20 years ago, TTG (which most people hate), and the recent live action show (which most people hate).
Dickbabs has DCAU/BTAS (much more beloved, and no, the average casual doesnt know about the cuckery), Young Justice, the 2004 Batman show, the Arkham games, and Gotham Knights.
I literally never see Dickbabs go viral outside of comic book twitter like Dickkory does.
>What I don't get is why do casuals like Dickkory so much more?
Because of the terrible cartoon which dumbed down Starfire and Dick into palpable characters unlike the terrible comic which meandered for years.
I'm pretty sure Babs was actually with Tim in the Arkhamverse.
>the 2004 Batman show,
They acted more like stepsiblings. Barbara was also way too tall for him.
>the Arkham games,
They ended up going with the crackship of Tim/Babs.
Kory got this big boost from shitty fanartists when the Titans TV show made her black. So you can have your DickKory but is it work it?
Kori was created to be Dick's love interest and has a personality that just meshes well and has better chemistry with him. Babs doesn't have that and never will because that's not what her character was created for, so you have to make an actual concentrated effort to give them a natural-seeming romance without also sabotaging Babs' character.
>Kori was created to be Dick's love interest and has a personality that just meshes well and has better chemistry with him.
I still can’t think of a story with Kory that gif me hooked like BOP did with Dick and Babs at the circus. Wolfman can’t write romance or females to safe his life.
Because "More serious but still approachable "cool" guy who broods occasionally" and "Bubbly sex bomb with a heartfelt and hopeful side" is a very simple set up that creates a clear and organic dynamic, and it helped build Dick's character by highlighting that his difference and thus independence from Bruce since it gave him a strong relationship that worked off of mutual trust and support where he lets someone in, as well as the obvious and simple contrast of "Dick actually works with people who he doesn't basically own body and soul" compared to how most of the Batfamily is usually near completely dependent on Bruce to some extent or another.
Starfire in general seems to be more popular with casuals. The only time Babs gets attention is casuals mad her movie got canned and deluding themselves into believing it was gonna be good.
To make a comparison to Frozen, Starfire is Elsa while Babs is Anna to most people.
Starfire is a beautiful woman who's strong and has an enjoyable personality that's mostly bubbly, free spirited, and confident but can be a strong warrior when she needs to be. No fricking shit she's popular.
Unironically it's because black women/gays latched onto her after they made her black in the Titans show. The dude who made that thread in your pic is a black gay dude and I guarantee you most of his mutuals are black women.
It's also helps that Perez nailed her aesthetics and color scheme when first designing her, making drawing her fun for artists. If she were a generic white looking alien like Superman she wouldn't have near as much fanart. But the big hair, solid green eyes and orange skin make her pop.
>Starfire in general seems to be more popular with casuals
Because of the cartoon
> Babs was in 2 episode f the 3 season of BTAS
> Qhe lust after Batman
> Nightniwg make 2 cameos in TNBA
> he shut off Babs when she start flirting with him at Bruce's marriage
The average casual doesn't know about dickbabs in BTAS either. It's a "squint your eyes to see it" thing, even when you aren't a normie.
>the Arkham games
She is married to Tim and nothing else is ever hinted at. Nightwing is an afterthought or DLC in these games.
Wonder if the person knows Ryan’s actually paternally black.
It took Dickbabs for Jimenez to draw something that looks shitty
He draws a good DickBabs usually. That homie Campbell who does the covers for Nightwing does a good one.
His Babs looks fine in his Batman run, and he also drew them fine here
The kids who grew up on Teen Titans 2003 have now entered online discussion but has not entered any type of major decision making role at DC yet.
They moved in to Internet forums and anime, a toxic combination
TT2003 fans barely like comics(Perez art is too ugly for them) and when they do they just try to shape it to what they want it to have been (see the Gabriel Picolo books where Beast boy is a brown brazillian guy who dates Raven)
because there's like zero good comics featuring the relationship? Plus, whenever Babs shows up Dicks has to get super nerfed so hype her up, the current run being a perfect example.
What do Starfire fans even want? She is kind of just there in the comics which has been the status quo for ages now.