Why are Star Wars fans so afraid of change?
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Why are Star Wars fans so afraid of change?
Why are Star Wars fans so afraid of change?
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This was fricktarded.
Just like everything Star Wars since Disney bought it.
>since Disney bought it
Yes, force speed, midiclhorians and jar jar binks were all masterpieces
All of those things are interesting and worthy of further discussion. Nothing Disney has made has any value beyond memes about their awful theme park.
Midichlorians are fine. It's just the dumbass fans who completely misunderstood Qui-Gon's explanation. They're not the Force itself, but are instead how the Force interacts with the material world. They're a middleman, nothing more. Everyone has them in their system, but only a minority of people have them in abundance. This allows that minority to use the Force.
Let's be honest, disney star wars fans have no clue what worldbuilding is or how important internal consistency is
All they really needed to do was make it require turning off a bunch of safety mechanisms on the hyperdrive and shut off the computer navigation completely for manual steering. Maybe require more than one person, too. Make it a suicide maneuver that requires heavy losses to accomplish.
How about this? Make it the Achilles Heel of the new tracking tech. Two birds with one stone. Sure, now you can track ships through Hyperspace, but only one ship at a time, and that ship you’re attuned to can also obliterate you.
So like active sonar in space.
>Give me a ping, Vasily, one ping only
>All they really had to do was make the original trilogy and most of the motivations in the prequel trilogy pure nonsense because the most powerful weapon in the universe was hidden by a few safety protocols
that doesn't fix the problem that it makes FTL torpedoes possible and everyone in the OT morons for not using them
still doesn't work
the core problems are these:
1. hyperdrives have existed for millennia with only incremental improvements. there are no fundamental differences between the hyperdrives used in the old republic era and those used in the sequels.
2. this maneuver isn't an established part of warfare with ships designed specifically to exploit it.
making it suicidal doesn't fix anything, star wars has droids and most people treat them as objects despite indications they're sapient. droid suicide ships would absolutely be a standard part of warfare if you could get the kind of results holdo does.
trillions of people over thousands of years looked at this technology and didn't see a way to weaponize it.
Still doesn't explain the glaringly obvious question of why they don't just do it on purpose regularly in universe. Just pre program coordinates or use a droid pilot or even just a willing kamikaze volunteer.
TFA already fricked up enough by having Han just time casually hyperdriving through a planetary shield based on manual timing. If it's that easy, shields should mean nothing and every enemy spaceship should be covered in buzz droids.
All they needed to do was make up a consistent reason. Hell, maybe the secret star killer that's supposed to be hidden just doesn't have giant obvious shields, or maybe he's a SMUGGLER and knows how to slip under their radar while the shields are currently down due to not currently being under attack, and sneak and in blow them up so the X-Wings can fly in. The story beats wouldn't change.
It has been evident from the start that they just made it up as they went along. Even the original trilogy is like this, no internal consistency, no planning. It's made one movie at a time and it shows.
I remember when nu-trek started transporting through shields and across the entire galaxy, stupid homosexuals would make the same arguments as OP's picture.
By breaking fundamental, plot point based rules with no explanation, you destroy any investment or reward for paying attention to the story. Also it's lazy and cheap.
Basic story structure demands you have cause an effect. Otherwise it's just a bunch of stuff that's happening for no discernable reason.
If Disney wars wants change why is every ship and weapon just a copy of the original trilogy?
The prequels was the actual attempt at change, and these same frickers b***hed about it for decades
Not even close moron
>ME CLAP BECAUSE X-WING! BIGGER AT-AT! AT-AT! AT-AT!
>The prequels was the actual attempt at change, and these same frickers b***hed about it for decades
This. The one aspect that I liked from the prequels was the different look to the ships, creatures and environments and the evolution over the three films.
They were the same ships but with a blue stripe, the frick change are you talking about
work on your reading comprehension
It makes no fricking sense that nobody figured out you could hyperdrive kamikaze in the 25,000 years they've been around.
software limitation
can't print money on printers
that's a hardware limitation it's physically impossible, fricking uninstall your cerebellum
they would've had huge rockets with hyperdrives if this was possible.
1 huge rocked would have more power than any deathstar
just shoot one of those into a planet and it's gone
So... kind of like Star Wars Dark Empire's Galaxy Gun missiles?
Relativistic bombs ruin any sci fi / sci fa setting they're introduced in.
And it ruins the setting afterwards.
Anyone got a webm or YT link for the "fixed" version were she just crashes into their shields and then everyone else get blasted?
Nevermind, I Googled again and found it.
One of the comments
>how can this happen but then later Poe is "hyperspeed skipping" or some shit where he just goes through solid walls and planets while going in hyperspeed?
kek did that actually happen? Was it the third movie? I never even bothered watching that since TFA and TLJ were so bad.
They don't have ship shielding in the Star Wars universe either, otherwise all the star fighting wouldn't work.
>doesn't shield the entire ship
>draws massive amounts of energy so it can't be used constantly
Do we ever see any ship shielding in action in any SW movies? Even on small ships like fighters or smuggling ships?
Yes. In the OT, the shielding was indicated by flashing explosions due to the special effect tech available. In Episode One, the fighter had visible shields that reflected blasters and the droidekas did as well
Which fighter?
I remember the driods, but a small shield is much more doable in SW tech than large shields.
The yellow one. Anakin hops inside and the shields come on, then the droids can't kill him and he slowly turns while blasting them before flying out
Are fighter shields ever shown in flight, or was that the only time?
Besides the Deathstar and the Trade Federation Doughnut, I don't think so.
Anon, how did you watch all the Star Wars movies without remembering how many battles revolve around ships having shields up?
Why didn't they just divine wind the frick out of the Death Star?
Or better yet, attach a hyperdrive to an asteroid and use a drone to crash that into the Death Star.
>Or better yet, attach a hyperdrive to an asteroid and use a drone to crash that into
Fricking bug, you'll pay for LA.
you mean BA?
Wrong place. Never seen the movie. Sad state of affairs.
>LA
Back 2 reddit pls.
>wanting to avenge LA in any universe or setting
>Or better yet, attach a hyperdrive to an asteroid and use a drone to crash that into the Death Star.
I had to think about this one for a second.
I don't think that's feasible with the resources the Rebellion had on hand. The Death Star's hyperdrive is ludicrously massive and takes up a large portion of the interior space of sphere.
This implies that a hyperdrive big enough to move a sizable asteroid through hyperspace would also need to be enormous.
The Rebellion could possible construct a hyperdrive large enough to send a Star Destroy sized asteroid through hyperspace and ram it into the death star in real space at very high speed.
However, there are some issues with this.
The original Death Star had shields. The X-wing attacked slipped between gaps in the shields.
I don't think these gaps would be big enough for anything that could harm the Death Star to get through.
The Death Star also had turbolaser batteries and tractor beams to protect itself from an asteroid impact. And it could simply move itself out of the way given enough lead time.
Because being able to pull that move means that the nature of space combat, and defense of space combat, the reason for building super weapons, all of it is pointless when you can load a ship up with a simple ai and have it ram into planets and fleets and everything else without danger to your army, tech or cost of life, its basically a costless superweapon created with the base nature of the universe being unlocked with a simple hyperdrive.
It is beyond idiotic. The entire universe would be different, every aspect of it.
Pirates would slam fleets with snub fighters going into hyperdrive, planets would have had to revolutionize how they defend against it, trade, economies would be different because it could be use against you at any time. The list goes on beyond even those things and that is just a few off the top of my head.
This. Star Wars was built around giabt flagships since the 1st movie.
This shit complestly invalidates existance of everything made in pre Disney decades from Death Star 1 to Melevolence
So, the oldest trope from the golden age of scifi, the RKKV, has no validity in the the arguably most popular sci to of all time?
Star Wars is space opera, it's the furthest thing from hard SF, science is irrelevant in it.
Which is fine, but the "science" in it has to play by it's own rules. The "hyperspace ram" doesn't and is just the result of shit writing.
I fully agree.
It's been decades. Which battles?
Most of them. All their ships have shields/deflectors, but they’re nowhere near as robust as Star Trek shields, and little fighters barely have any at all. They burn out after a few hits.
That’s one of the main reasons they have fighters in the first place. The shields on the massive ships/space stations effectively prevent capital ships from engaging each other directly until some of their fighters go inside the field and knock out their shield generators. One of the coolest, most subtle moments in all the films happens in A New Hope, where you hear the comms quality degrade as the X-Wing pilots enter the Death Star’s shields.
Relativistic bombs have to be completely ignored in galactic scifi or the whole story has to be about them. It's the most basic storytelling rule when dealing with FTL travel. Disney is just so moronic nobody knew that, and are even more moronic for not figuring out the repercussions for themselves.
because the RKV, while realistic, is gay as shit for telling stories set in space
if you want realism in scifi, go read the uniform crime report
Couldn't force users just do that? Wasn't hitting the death star vent a 1 in a million as well?
It was something like that.
If you wanna get meta about it, it makes more sense that a character pulls over something that has a super high probability of not working cuz these motherfrickers are pulling shit out of their ass all the time.
>3000 years of hyperdrive tech
>this one twat is the first one to think of something so basic you could just do it from the captain chair
If she was first to do it, why was mr. I am the Spy yelling 'NOOOO!!!'?
That would probably be the first thing you think of when going light speed, if you will get obliterated by running into something while moving at that speed and how to prevent it, like are you going to explode if a tiny rock runs into the ship going faster than light. That person is actually moronic.
>no one thought about launching one heavy object into another before
for MILLENNIA no less
I feel bad for people trying to defend Rian's work, it's even more obvious with his knives out films that his schtick is subverting expectations even if it's stupid to do so in a consistency sense
>I feel bad for people trying to defend Rian's work
Why? Libshits aren't human.
It's almost as if Rian Johnson is a very dumb person.
underrated post
With all the ships in the galaxy that have FTL, even like junker ships, it's so insanely common, accidents like this should probably just happen a bunch of time naturally if it's only a 1 in a million.
>nobody ever thought of it before
Yeah, nobody who ever piloted a vehicle has ever thought "it would be bad if I hit something with it".
When you learn to ride a bicycle, a car, a motorbike or whatever else, that's definitely the last of your concerns. Nobody really ever thought about it. The first person who ever came up with it was the eponymous Shaquonda Caraccident, the first trans body of color to invent vehicular collision in Africa, thousands of years before they invented the wheel.
> Shaquonda Caraccident, the first trans body of color to invent vehicular collision in Africa
Kek
Not going into the fundamental change it introduces to warfare, I don't think it's consistent with how hyperdrives work.
Essentially, in SW, hyperspace is a different dimension, you're not going "Faster than light" in a physical sense, you're entering a different dimension that bridges the gap between 2 points in real space, like the nether in minecraft. Every object leaves a mass shadow, which is why you can't hyperdrive through planets, but if you did try to, your realspace ship would hit the mass shadow of the planet but not the realspace planet.
Simply put, the scene doesn't work because holdo's ship will have driven into the supremacy's hyperspace mass shadow and not the actual realspace supremacy. Obliterate herself and only herself.
So...Folding?
Yes.
I still have never seen Rise of Skywalker and intend to keep it that way.
You can't really recommend it on any level. At least with TLJ you can be like "Look at how badly they fricked up Star Wars", Skywalker has nothing.
By far, it's most interesting quality is how hard it's trying to run away from TLJ
Wow, it's almost like the mechanics and lore of Star Wars fundamentally crumble once you really start to think about it.
It's been that way since '77.
you're not wrong on the wider point, the Republic is an absolute incoherent mess that only works because they don't go into detail for instance, but wrong in this specific instance.
is right that based on the old lore that particular maneuver should be impossible
>but wrong in this specific instance.
The Holdo maneuve is stupid as frick, has zero explaination, and is just handwaved away as something that simply cannot ever be replicated again.
I'm not wrong in this instance. It's another in yet a long line of things that completely fall apart when you start to think about it.
you misunderstood me anon
yes that shit was fricktarded but that particular point isn't an indictment of star wars lore in general (which again, has plenty of other stuff that does fall apart if you think about it), it blatantly disregards how they setup hyperdrive travel mechanically in previous lore
>nobody thought about throwing a big ass object at high speed against your enemies
We have been doing that since we were chimps. It's stupid nobody thought it before
It's also stupid it's 1 in a million chance because literally did it lots of times in RoS and other media after LoJ
>space craft are seen coming out of hyperspace nearly still in the intro of Rian's own stupid fricking movie
So if the big fleet vehicles dropping out of hyperspace are doing so with zero inertia, why does Holdo's ship maintain hers?
Rian is a fricking moron and I'm sick of dealing with people that think he's not.
the thing with Rian is he doesn't give a shit about internal consistency, his schtick is subverting audience expectations no matter how dumb they are if you think about it
it's really obvious in his knives out detective films, I'll take the glass onion one as an example.
half the film is straightforward setting up the mystery only for the second half to be endless twists, culminating with the ending having the supposed super detective just fricking off to sit on the beach while the mary sue sister burns down the bad guys house and the mona lisa with it.
Star Wars is done, they need to move on. Make a new sci-fi universe.
Star Wars was mismanaged to death to the point even the originals are now retroactively bad.
they will rape 40k next since rebel moon flopped.
at least FTL in that serting is well defined despite the in universe inconsistency of it so hopefully less chance of nonsense around that
>they will rape 40k
You're probably right. part of me is still kinda wants it though. I'd love to see a movie with the T'au in it.
same, even if just to aee a compilation of the cool bits
I'd love to see a movie with a female T'au on male human sex scene
>Pay gorillion of dollars to buy a franchise to make money of
>Run it into the ground in a span of 5 years
Why are people like this?
Is not about the money, is about sending a message
>a message
that rian johnson is a hack?
no matter how much they'll claim he did nothing wrong it is very telling he has basically done nothing but murder mystery shit since, and not much of it at that. it's literally all his style is even good for
They're not even murder mysteries. The first one is blindingly obvious, and so is the second. They're so blatant that Rian has to try and trick you by making flashbacks that were impossible.
they're exactly what you'd expect rian johnson to do, they're "subversions" of the genre, so the bad guy in the second one is just a smooth brain (ignore how this makes zero sense for how he ingratiated himself into the friend group), the detective basically does nothing of importance, and the entire mystery was essentially meaningless since that's not how they catch him anyway.
it's just that unlike with the murder mystery genre this is at least kinda passable, insofar as you aren't paying much attention at least, in a way that didn't fly with a non mystery setting
I just couldn't accept the movie learning that the bad guy murders someone, burries the body, has someone who looks exactly like her show up and present themselves as the murdered individual, and somehow this doesn't cause any reaction or somehow alter his plans.
he actually didn't bury the body, he staged it to look like a suicide so in theory he could have just assumed she miraculously survived.
but given as I typed that I remember the detective dude explicitly telling the sister that the killer would know it wasn't the dead woman I'm actually putting more effort in to excuse rian's dogshit than rian did himself. which I guess gets back to the point of him caring for plot twists and subversion over story coherency
Even if he assumes she somehow survived, that means he's in the clear, he murdered nobody and he has the one piece of evidence that could allow Andi to win her case against him.
Why did he keep the napkin Rian? Why did he not burn it?!
yeah fair enough kek, the more you think about it the shittier it gets
>Why did he keep the napkin Rian? Why did he not burn it?!
so he could have his big subversion moment where he's confronted with the evidence and then ninjas his way close enough to just burn it
mein fuhrer... it's been 9 years
We are now 4 years below the ground.
Why didn't Vader's Avenger got destroyed in Rogue One? literally rebel ships went into hyperspace in front of it at the end of the movie
They came out of HS. That cruiser simply crashed into it.
>many people died for these secret plans
>but we found a weakness, here, in this pipe directly connected to darth vader bathroom
>if we... somehow, can manage to fire some molotov wienertails in there...
>It's almost a suicide mission...
>what if... we ram some x-wings at hyperspeed into that base and that's it?
>Don't be ridiculous, that's 1 in a million chance, is not like there were space rocks by the quintillions out there that we could launch using cheap as frick hyper engines the size of a astromech
Are people still shilling for this pile of crap film.
What if they just started ramming ships like this into planets?
If you can do this regularly then you've just destroyed any need for space lasers or planet-sized doom stations. You can just strap a hyperdrive on a rock and slam it into whatever you don't like. Fans hated this scene because it was fricking gay and basically made every single movie before it redundant.
>Palpy goes out of his way to build the Death Star. Twice.
>Could've just hyperdrive'd a Star Destroyer into a planet the whole time.
Why are Star Wars fans so afraid of Bigger Luke?
>instead of building a Death Star you can just put R2-D2 in a small ship and ram into planets or whatever
>instead of a suicide mission to destroy the Death Star you can just put R2-D2 in a small ship and into it instead
>the guys producing ships are pretty much the owners of the universe because they can just ram everything with it
The Franchise killed Cinema
Nothing more to see here
Thousands of people produced this movie without a single one of them saying "hey, that is moronic".
>*hollywood makes steaming pile of shit related to established franchise*
>>You're afraid of change!
>>This franchise isn't for you!
>>You're sexist!
>>You're racist!
>I rather have the full moron answer of a galaxy of people never having once thought of one of the first things that would come to mind for offensive uses of faster than light travel before this point and also the longstanding repercussions of it suddenly being "discovered" would have on the galaxy at large afterwards(spoilers:everything would be fricked), than it being a extreme outlier because of "that's character growth(not really) and it would be le interesting"
What an idiot, that's not even getting into the "star wars characters never have the ability to change" BS which Han Solo alone proves wrong(at least until this wanker's beloved disney SW films retconned him back into being a selfish loner who dodges responsibility again ,40 years later for some reason). In fact, the "character growth" of the Disney films is such dogshit that these dipshits trying to prop it up as some "superior form of SW storytelling" is fricking laughable.
It’s staggering to me how stupid these people are. That’s the only explanation for their complete lack of imagination. I honestly can’t fathom being so stupid that it never occurs to them that in a setting where this was not only possible, but the tech making it so having existed for centuries, it would have been discovered and weaponized long ago.
I've never seen that movie. Can someone explain to me what that post is talking about?
In one of the star wars sequels a commander makes their ship go into hyperspace and crash into a huge enemy fleet and takes it all out.
what
Yeah the visuals aren't bad in the scene, but even while watching it the first time I was thinking "Wait why didn't they do this before? Why build a Death Star if you can just do this? Why not just build a space-based droid with a hyperdrive in it and program it to destroy anything you want? Or an army of them?"
It'd be like if someone made a sequel to Lord of the Rings and Gandalf revealed he could actually teleport anywhere in Middle Earth with magic and just never mentioned it in any previous stories. It's not only stupid in the context of this movie, it makes the other movies stupid too.
Exactly. Matter of fact, some dude behind me said in an out-loud, matter-of-fact tone, “What the frick.” Just like that. He wasn’t confused, wasn’t asking a question, just stating outright his complete disbelief. The best part was that the theater was dead silent, too. Then what I assumed to be him and the 5 or 6 other people with him just got up and left.
For me, it was the audible "why?" in the theater when they did that weird fake-out with the clothing iron.
moron Johnson completely misunderstood how hyperdrives work and had his brave danger-haired admiral OC ram another ship by jumping to Hyperspace. Even worse, everyone involved, even her, acted like this was a known thing.
the whole movie is literally just a chase through empty space where both spaceships move at the exact same speed.
3 characters drop out and do an excursion on casino island.
Nothing about the situation changed when they return, so dyke commander evacuates the ship and does a self sacrifice by turning the ship and crashing it into ebil guys novel giant B-2 Spirit.
It feels like they tried to do the AtLA chases scene, but in the most uninspired moronic way.
It's so much worse than you realize, because the actual canon Star Wars galaxy shows just how far away casino island is.
Finn and Rose traverse a hundred thousand light years in the span of a couple hours, while the rebels are having a slow sublight chase with the empire. It's so fricking moronic I still get mad about it.
This doesn't get brought up enough. They travel across the galaxy as if it's a trip to the local mall. RotS rightfully makes Obi-Wan's trip to Utapau look like a long drawn out mission that keeps him far away from Anakin while Palpatine enacts his scheme. TLJ shrinks the entire galaxy down to a few cities, which is probably way they felt the need to introduce a whole new galaxy.
Also the fact that major characters can just fricking leave and return completely undetected in a movie that LITERALLY REVOLVES AROUND A CONFLICT OF THE HEROES TRYING TO ESCAPE FROM THE VILLAINS infuriates me to no end. Nevermind the FO not scanning for escape ships IN A MOVIE ABOUT HEROES TRYING TO ESCAPE THE VILLAINS or that one fricking moronic officer who notices something off about his radar and just taps it a few times and ignores it.
To some degree Hyperspace always had a "It's as fast as the plot needs it to be" aspect to it, but the Sequels kept attaching moronic ticking clocks to it like the space chase or the "You have two days to go on a treasure hunt before Palpatine kills everyone" shit in 9. And then they had "Frick it, we're doing Star Tours 2.0 shenanigans now" with Hyperspace skipping.
Yeah, there were always some issues. But the OT and PT always kept things vague enough that there was some plausible deniability on the passage of time. Having explicit timers and countdowns is so fricking moronic and the worst part of it is that the hack screenwriters can barely even think past the scope of the movie runtime itself. So we end up with the first two movies in the trilogy literally taking place over the course of like a day and a half. It's so unbelievably fricking stupid for a setting that's meant to be expansive and grand.
>you can hyperdrive into an enemy ship and destroy it
Fine
>it will also splinter off and destroy every single other ship in the fleet
Ok what the frick
That's not an interesting change that's an absolute destruction of the laws of the universe.
Though it would be nice to see a sci-fi universe where they do have space bullets with hyperdrive attached to shred other ships.
it gets even more moronic because you'd think that now everyone starts using that strat but even the showrunner must realize that's a stupid fricking idea.
>why doesn't everyone in the universe want to kill themselves?!
Holdo had to be on board to do it. People don't sign up for suicide willy-nilly.
They could have suicide droids piloting suicide ships packed with explosives. Don't even need hyperdrive to come into it.
Leia should've been the one who did that. It both would've given her a more heroic and fitting end, and also you could explain it saying 'only a force user could pull it off'
This would be such an easy fix to the canon if these morons didn't go with their first draft. The slightest bit of revision would let you have your cake and eat it too.
Here's my headcanon fix: The plot should have been based around the Empire's ability to track ships through hyperspace, using a new type of technology that everyone previously thought impossible. Instead of having Rose and Finn go to some moronic casino planet, they should have infiltrated an Imperial prison to break the inventor of the tracking device out of jail and try to find a weakness or workaround.
When Finn and Rose rescue the scientist (you can even have it still be Benicio Del Toro), he reveals that as long as the device is "locked on" to a ship, it entangles itself and the ship it's tracking through hyperspace, meaning that the two ships can fundamentally interact. The scientist regarded the tracking device as a failure for this reason, but the Imperials ignored his warnings, stole his tech, and threw him in jail to rot.
When this information is relayed back to the fleet; the rebels know that their only option is to attempt a suicide attack on the Supremacy. The Imperials never see it coming because they don't know about the weakness of the hyperspace tracker, and the rebels successfully destroy the imperial flagship and most of the fleet with the Holdo Maneuver.
You get the big spectacular finale, you get rid of Holdo, you preserve all previous canon of Star Wars by relegating hyperspace ramming to a niche interaction of experimental tech that will never be used again due to this glaring problem, and the movie is much less moronic as a result. The franchise is still not saved, but at least this is fixed.
Much better than what they came up with
>some random anon on Cinemaphile is a better writer than the best that Disney can come up with
DEI has killed Hollywood
His story literally sounds like a wookiepedia article, anon. Lore, lore and lore. And no meaning to it. He's a terrible writer.
>making a coherent plotline that actually makes sense instead of just "OOOOO BIG EXPLOSION YASSSSS QUEEEEEN GIRL POWER!" is now considered terrible writing
I hate Zoomers so much.
>coherent plotline that actually makes sense
Except it doesn't. It's a Macguffin hunt, ultimately, that amounts to nothing. It's kinda like Rogue One. Only thing missing is a gratuitous Vader cameo and terrible CGI faces.
LMAO this guy literally does think that ANH is too complex. Rogue One was just an expansion of a major plot point from ANH: The Bothans stole the Death Star plans to find a weakness. Which is basically what
is doing.
But to be fair, there wasn't Tik Tok in 1977 so kids could actually pay attention to the plot and people cared whether it made sense or not.
>Rogue One was just an expansion of a major plot point from ANH:
No. It was an attempt to close a "plot hole" from the original Star Wars (or "ANH" as you call it) that never actually as a plot hole, but just fanboys online being literally too stupid to understand what an exhaust is or why a giant battle station might need one.
And that's all there was to it. It's not "complex", it's bullshit that amounts to nothing.
Bothans stole death star II plans.
Kyle Katarn stole the original death star plans and I'd much rather watch a movie about that.
Actually no, I take it back, please don't ruin Kyle Katarn.
Even the original Death Star plans had multiple stories in the EU.
And I'll die on the hill that Dark Forces / Jedi Knight is canon. Shadows of the Empire is canon. And Disney Wars is just billion dollar fanfiction.
>no meaning to it
the meaning is that it gives a plausible way for the Holdo Maneuver to actually work. What the frick else do you want for it to have "meaning"? Do you also cry about the Bothans stealing the Death Star plans to find a weakness because you don't understand the meaning of it? Would you have preferred if Luke just shot a few lasers at the Death Star and it blows up with no explanation of how it happens? Is your generation really so ruined by Tik Tok that you think A New Hope is too complex of a plot?
>the meaning is that it gives a plausible way for the Holdo Maneuver to actually work.
Case in point. That's not a meaning, that's lore autism and plothomosexualry. Alfred Hitchwiener used to call this kind of thing fridge logic and found the notion of catering to it ridiculous.
The stories you want revolve around lore, not around characters. But that's not good storytelling, it's its antithesis.
>meaning
Define what this is to you.
>plothomosexualry
Frick off
>revolve around lore, not around characters
Shockingly, you can have both
>Define what this is to you.
Meaning is the substance there is to a story. The meta-level to the events happening in the plot. Themes. Motives. Anything that audiences can actually take away from a film (or readers from a book) for their own lives.
>Shockingly, you can have both
Not so shockingly, you actually cannot. Focus on one means no focus on the other. But, again, plothomosexualry keeps you from seeing a difference.
A theme that is not supported by the events in the story is hollow and meaningless, no better than the film just being a static image of the theme written out on a notecard.
Example theme: Self-sacrifice is the ultimate expression of love.
>Dave stays behind to hold off a swarm of fast zombies while Linda works to start a plane, ultimately sacrificing himself so she can escape
Plot and theme are working together. Dave's actions make sense both logically and from the character's perspective, the theme is naturally drawn from the events.
>Dave stays behind to hold off a handful of slow zombies while Linda takes off in a plane, despite the fact that nothing prevented him from jogging over to join her
Plot and theme are in direct conflict. Dave's now a fricking moron and the theme is broken because the sacrifice was entirely unnecessary.
>A theme that is not supported by the events in the story is hollow and meaningless
A theme that is not supported by the story is not a theme at all, moron. The point of themes is that they're interwoven in the story. If they aren't, they're simply not there.
>Example theme: Self-sacrifice is the ultimate expression of love.
That's not a theme of TLJ. That's your headcanon.
>theme that is not supported by the story is not a theme at all
In that case you're actually harsher on TLJ than I am, since I just think it's themes are broken, as opposed to being entirely absent
>That's not a theme of TLJ. That's your headcanon
Please look up what the word "example" means before responding again
>since I just think it's themes are broken, as opposed to being entirely absent
That's because you do not understand what a theme is.
>Internal consistency is the antithesis to good storytelling
Did you respond to the wrong post?
Post made sense, you're just moronic and probably gay too.
>Verification not required.
didn't they have hyperspace tracking in the first film
You mean when they tracked the Falcon to Yavin? No, they specifically say they planted a homing beacon on the inside of the ship, which is what they're tracing rather than the ship itself. Even then it takes them time to relocate it, it wasn't instant.
Yes basically what this guy said
It's so obvious and coherent that Rian Johnson probably had the idea himself, then made the plot convoluted and stupid on purpose to subvert his own expectations.
kek, reminds me of how the original plot to the Matrix was that humans were being used as supercomputers, which would actually make sense, but then they changed the plot so they were human batteries which is stupid.
>>you preserve all previous canon of Star Wars by relegating hyperspace ramming to a niche interaction of experimental tech that will never be used again due to this glaring problem.
No, you have now exposed the galaxy to a new method of combat that make super weapons pointless and a galactic arms race to get it.
To a degree sure but anon's idea leaves juuuust enough room to be able to justify this as a one-and-done piece of tech.
>tech requires resources that are either exceptionally rare or in unsustainable quantities
>scientist kept the blueprints and the Imperials never figured out how to make more
>limit the amount of people who actually understand what makes it work, and either kill them off by story's end or have the remaining good guys agree to just quietly put it away and not mention it
You have a couple of options right here to close it off, and that's just me bullshitting in 5 minutes
>just me bullshitting
Only thing worth reading in your post.
It's still a problem since somebody could just put the hyperspace tracker on a ship, track what they want to hit, and hyperspace into it.
It's exactly as bad but having the process be one extra step makes morons forget the issue because they're incapable of consideration.
Why cultural vandals are so afraid of leaving existing things as they are?
>muh modern myth
The gayest
if it's a 1 in a million shot, why would you even attempt it?
Cajonically shevwas trying to run awayband abandon the rebels, but accidentally killed herself instead
You know, this shit could have been interesting and engaging had they developed it properly, but I don't think that was on the table in the first place.
Frick KK and Ryan Johnson and his legion of cope gays.
There are numerous reasons why it's moronic, the biggest one being that going into hyperspace doesn't make u go superduper fast, it takes you into subspace.
It's a grim time for pop scifi. At least trekkies can go back and watch hundreds of hours of good content. Unfortunately for wars fans, the recent slough of shit content has brought up discussion regarding the merit of the franchise. Once you start looking at these films with a critical eye, it's impossible to go back to the old ones without applying the same logic and realizing that they are silly kid's movies designed to sell reskinned gi joes.
Disney Wars and Lucas Wars are not the same.
Franchise fanboys aren't excatly the most literate people to watch films. And that's not limited to Star Wars, but a general phenomenon. Pavlovian conditioning: Give them something they're familiar with, some instant gratification, nostaliga bait, lore autism, etc, and they'll clap like trained monkeys. Try to challence their preconceived notions and make them think, and they'll throw a massive tantrum because they don't know how to process this new information.
Would've been way more kino if Leia had done it. Her last scene would be a mirror of her first one: From running away from a huge ship on a smaller one, to ramming into one with hers.
This thing is like a naturally occuring IQ test. It outs everyone that has a sub-grade school level of understanding of physics and totally lacks critical thinking abilities to understand the implication of it.
It's amazing how many super dumbs are out there, just living life. Often to success at even the highest levels of Hollywood.
>Do something completely moronic that goes against established lore and ruins future space fights
>AT LEAST IT WAS DIFFERENT
This movie really did wake me up to the fact that morons will “subvert” something and not care about the execution, making it complete shit.
Back in the early 2010s, fans had decided to bury the hatchet against George and chose to have faith in Disney, everyone was giving the sequels a chance based on nothing. Then Disney spat in the face of that blind faith and took a dump on their child afterward.
Hyperspace ramming being possible would completely change the way warfare in the Star Wars universe works. Everyone would be held together in a weird peace because of MAD.
The whole point of hyperspace was you’re dropping into a different part of reality, not just moving very fast. That’s why Han tells Luke to wait for the computer cause if you don’t you can drop out into an exploding star
The "hyperspace kamikaze" was never an issue. Star Wars fanboys simply have low IQ and are unable to think for themselves without huge doses of verbal exposition explaining things for them.
Okay fine, anon: How would YOU have fixed the sequel trilogy?
Conditions: You have to keep Rey, Finn and Poe as the main characters throughout.
Luke, Leia and Han have to die at some point.
The overall plots of each movies have to remain somewhat similar to what we got.
Just try to find a way to keep Colin Trevorrow for episode 9, give his script a few more iterations and film it. Don't ever even consider bringing Abrams back. Or Palpatine. And don't cater to the fanboys in any other way either.
>Lists everything wrong
>fix everything but THIS
It was fricked, mate
None of those things are what made the sequel trilogy bad.
Finn ruined the trailer for part 7, and it only got worse with everything after. Everyone knows this.
That shit made sense since Han had to take the Falcon out of hyperdrive when Alderan was blown up so not to crash on pieces of it.
But we are/were in the 2010s where remote control is a thing and not having a fleet of drones doing this shit is weird.
But in the SW universe, remote control isn't really there, so any shit like that is suicide, which explains why it's not done. I doubt she was the first to think of it since they took that bit from the EU but whatever.
>I doubt she was the first to think of it since they took that bit from the EU but whatever.
The closet EU had was the Sun Crusher, which turned out to work better as invincible space bullet than as a tool to destroy suns.
They could have droids do it.
Does the Empire seem like the kind of people who would give a single frick about sacrificing a single person or even a full ship of people to take out a fleet/planet?
How about the Hutts or any of the other criminal orgs?
The Sith sure in the frick don't give a frick, why was this not their main weapon in space?
The Mandolorians don't use it as their final gamble?
The "Holdo Maneuver" was a thing added to the movie just because it looks really cool on the big screen and the wrote themselves in to a corner and needed a way out. So we got a very pretty scene that makes no fricking sense in universe.
>That shit made sense since Han had to take the Falcon out of hyperdrive when Alderan was blown up so not to crash on pieces of it.
that's incorrect, he tells luke and obiwan they're about to come out of hyperspace, they go to the wienerpit and exit hyperspace and are confused by the new asteroid field and lack of alderaan
t.rewatched ANH a couple days back
I think that has a lot to do with the threat a true AI could pose to the galaxy. Every system needs a biological sapient in control because AI can't truly be trusted. Droids need regular mind wipes or else they can go crazy. R2 is a good example of this. Dude is mad as a hatter as far as astromechs are concerned. Or IG-88. Broke free from his programming and became a bounty hunter so he could legally kill and torture organics. In old EU he uploaded his consciousness into the DSII with plans to genocide the galaxy.
WHY DIDN'T AMERICANS USE NUCLEAR BOMBS BEFORE WWII????
AMERICANS RUINED THE WARFARE LORE
False equivalency. Try harder.
I'd watch the Star Wars Oppenheimer movie about developing the Holdo Device if it was directed by GL in 2010.
This was Admiral Ackbars idea he gets to say *evil laughs* IT WAS A TRAP thereby rhyming it except it was a secret attack that only he knew about that kills him and entire crew so the attack dies with him
There I just easily fricking saved Star Wars yw
There is good changes/addictions to the setting and there are bad ones.
Hyperspace ramming is insanely moronic. Mainly because it's SO overpowered that it breaks the universe's space combat. If you can take out a whole fleet of ships with a single ship ramming into the lead ship while in Hyperspace, why in the frick would you waste resources and man power on having ships engage in a battle? Why not a swarm of droid driven kamakaze ships? Why would you have your fleet in such a tight formation if this can happen?
No, "Yea well no one thought of it before" is not a good excuse. It's fricking hitting something with a ship while in Hyperspace. SOMEONE, SOME WHERE, at some point in the 25k years of the Star Wars history would have hit something and learned of the "Hyperspace shotgun" effect. Not some kind of complex maneuver that requires cutting edge tech. You don't need to be a Force User. All that needs to happen is pointing the ship right at another ship and engage the Hyperspace engine. This is the kind of thing Rose would have done every other week. You know, being a chink and a women n all.
>single-handedly wins the clone wars with a bottom-of-the-barrel aftermarket hyperdrive welded on
Nothing personal kid.
Why not just make a good movie ?
Nice Death Star you have there, Imperials.
Be a real shame if we welded an R2 unit to one these bad boys....
Alternatively,
>Nice planet you have there, Rebellion scum...
>a traumatized ex slave Force sensitive kid shows up in your system with the quantum diamond ice cream cone
What now?
SOI WARS got taken over by women, homosexuals, troonys and israelites. It's over
TLJ apologists are baffling, it's impossible to imagine anyone actually thinking that movie is some sort of avant garde masterpiece.
Here is a hot take.
TLJ is the best of the sequels because one line, "Let the past die, kill it if you have to." This is how I feel about all these Old IPs that keep getting dragged out by hacks who want to use the IP's popularity for their "brand" and political platform.
Don't get me wrong, it's a horrible movie and a slap in the face to Star Wars fans, but it's still better for that one message than the other two movies and their lust of nostalgia pandering. Which are both still slaps in the face but with the mask of a memory from long ago. The Past if you will.
>"Let the past die, kill it if you have to."
>that one message
That's not the message. That's what the villain says, and he's proven wrong within the story, as is Luke.
The conclusion you're meant to come to is that neither forgetting the past, nor blind reverance for the past are good. Instead, accepting the past and learning from past mistakes is the way to go.
FRICK what happens in the shitty movie. It's the correct message. Hell, I think Rian was outright trying to kill Star Wars. You know how fricking bad the movie was, does that seem like the actions of someone who wants to keep the IP(the past) alive?
The Sequel Trilogy can be broken down like this
>YAAAAY NOSTALGIA!
>FRICK MORE STAR WARS MOVIES, MAKE SOMETHING NEW!
>YAAAAAAY NOSTALGIA!!!!!!!
It's the Hollywood's version of DmC: Devil May Cry.
If a chuddy is confused the world is a better place. Stick to your clownfish.fart.tv and Joe Crowder threads. Big conversations will just make you furrow your brow in a vain attempt to understand the situation.
Frick your change. If you want to try new ideas, then grow some creativity and produce new properties instead of using other people's creations as your personal platforms.
And what is that "change?" Team diversity as led by women who are better than men at everything (except professional sports) defeating evil whiteness?
>Hello fellow teens
>Here's a screenshot designed to make you mad
>But you only know that if you're a speshul sekrut klub member
>And remember, stay angry at this random twitter screenshot!
>And if you mess up the thread, jannies will save me!
So much homosexualry contained in such a small amount of space.
"Nobody thought of it" is multitudes more moronic than it being 1 in a million.
Reminder that the novelization, which released 3 months after the movie, was making excuses to explain how it was a complete fluke because even the people that let Rian go ahead with including the scene realized how much it fricked with the setting.
>brave and powerful blue haired holdo btfo out of a big white ship called Supremacy
somehow this is the fan's fault
>ship called Supremacy
Let me guess: You haven't ever heard that word used outside of a socio-political context and cannot fathom that it could refer to one single individual's hybris?
I doubt that midwit rian has.
So that's a "no" then. Figures.
Your argument is that Snoke named the ship Supremacy because of his hubris? Any in-universe support for this?
>Your argument is that Snoke named the ship Supremacy because of his hubris?
So your argument is that Snoke named his ship Supremacy because he's a fan of a particular niche of 20th century earth politics? Yeah, doesn't seem like a stretch at all!
>disney star wars execs saying on twitter that empire is human supremacist
do you really think they didnt call it that in a sociopolitical context?
>execs saying on twitter
Kek. You're actually seriously trying to make this argument, aren't you?
Are you really trying to argue modern films don't inject political subtext at every opportunity? Why?
Not in ship names.
Also, if you want to complain about political subtext in Star Wars, you should forget about the mostly a-political sequels and concentrate on Lucas' films, which are filled to the brim with strong political (left-wing) messaging. I'm sure you hate Return of the Jedi for its blatant Vietnam War parallels and the prequels for their bastardized retelling of Hitler's rise to power in Weimar Germany, right?
What do you care what I like or don’t like? Why are ship names immune from politics?
>What do you care what I like or don’t like?
I don't, really. I'm just trying to get you to reflect on your double standards.
>Why are ship names immune from politics?
Because it would be moronic to try to use a ship name for political messaging. It wouldn't work, because nobody but q-anon followers like yourself would pick up on such a thing, instead assuming that there's a perfectly fine in-universe explanation for such a name. Like, say, the guy owning the ship considering himself "surpreme"? Maybe even giving himself a title like "Surpreme Leader", because he's an arrogant piece of shit?
You know, normal people would draw a connection there. Not to some political movements outside the story's context.
> double standards.
Where did deny other movies have political messaging as well? Are you actually moronic?
>blah blah blah
No thanks
>Where did deny other movies have political messaging as well?
You kept going on about "muh modern movies", by which I assume you mean contemporary ones, and not those from 40 years ago?
It originally was the color of all prototype SDs, titanium white. Its right wing was cut through. How many SDs behind it are destroyed?, 14.
Wut? Please go back to explaining how the moon landing was faked and 9/11 was an inside-job instead.
More specifically Vice Admiral Tumblr destroyed the right wing of the Supremacy, after Mary Poppins Leia flew through the same part of the hologram.
The song I heard in my head when Leia did that shit.
In professional analysis of Star Wars, it’s already well established that The Last Jedi is the paragon of the franchise, far superior to the rest. Its detractors are motivated by racism and fear and will not be remembered.
>mom, come see! I'm winnin duh infowar!
>Its detractors are motivated by racism and fear
You can be racist against the Irish? Eriephobia is a thing now?
Yes?
1. They are not white.
2. They are the Black folk of the UK.
3. They drunken buffoons from birth. Men and Women.
4. They are so moronic they decided to grow only on crop year after year. So when an infection showed up, it destroyed the whole years crop. It gets in to the soil, and they plant the same fricking spuds again for it all to happen over again. This is how the famine happened.
5. Then, like the Black folk they are blamed everyone else for their frick up and fled to the Americas to escape the consequences of their own actions.
Star Wars fans get everything they deserve.
bing bong
Makes sense that the people with sub 80 IQ have trouble grasping the concept that smart people can actually consider something so basic and obvious.
>durrr what if nobody just thought about it?
Thankfully, not everyone is as dumb as you.
It's funny to me that there seems to be some narrative pushed that the angry fanboys don't want to think or be challenged, when they seem to be the only ones willing to put any thought whatsoever into the implications of shit like this.
They haven't put any thought into anything. I've yet to see a self-described fan of anything put forward a coherent plot or story. Let alone an entertaining one. Maybe a chuddy loves fan fics or wahtever. But regular people don't.
Nobody who uses "chuddy" has any right to talk about regular people as if he had any clue about that at all.
a droid would have told them to do that 3000 years ago
>hyperspace ramming
The fact of the matter is if the scene only has the white supremacists damaged by the ramming itself and no hyperspace jump or being shattered into thousand of pieces following by the other ships behind smashed into pieces too, the scene would not have the fans flip out. It would also explain where they get the rest of the walkers from on the salt planet; being most of the fleet are intact
When you turn against the fans it's over.
does someone have the vid of some guy stretching a star destroyer into that crap
When you eat shit for 25 years you eventually get used to it.
No one ever thought of a kamikazi attack before?
At least, in Dune it makes perfect sense why no one did this because space flight is in the hands of a single organization, and most of it's members are mutated creatures living in the future anyway.
Any setting where people can FTL easily means that any group of terrorists can start slinging rocks into planets at lightspeed and there is nothing you could do about it.
Hell, it's an argument that explains why you should fire at aliens first if you ever detect them. Because if they decide to throw a rock at you, even if you shot it down the debris would frick up your planets forever.
That sounds like should lead to an intergalatic version of mutually assure destruction, with every galactic power having hidden rock flinging ships everywhere, to retaliate if someone decided to start space-WWIII and shoot rocks at someone else.
NTA, but is there any in-universe support for any other reason for the name?
Jedi being able to use force push to move in zero-G environment makes more sense than the Holdo Maneuver and doesn't break the universe.
It's basic game theory, and is why plenty of people are opposed to projects like SETI. When the possible outcomes are making friends or being annihilated without warning, it's best to not play the game and go dark.
Leia both being able to use the Force as well as using the Force to propel you through zero-G are both fine ideas it's just that the scene is exceptionally moronic and looks very very bad
>looks very very bad
I'm sure they had reshot it had Carrie Fisher not had that ... scheduling conflict.
Sure sure, but is Leia a Jedi?
If fricking Star Killer, one of the most powerful and well trained force users in the old EU setting could not survive the vacuum of space...Leia the princess who has never been shown to be training as a Jedi, who has never displayed any kind of Force sensitivity beyond MAYBE "always knowing" that Luke was her brother in Return. Which is a far step from being able to survive in space unprotected and pull yourself into safety.
I was under the impression that Leia was always able to use the force? She's not an top-tier expert like her brother but I thought she was always force sensitive and had some abilities.
Never played the game with Starkiller, what happens to him? If you get spaced it's an instant game over or something?
>I was under the impression that Leia was always able to use the force?
In some ways, but mostly subconsciously. She "knows" that Luke needs help at the end of Empire Strikes Back and where to find him, via the Force, but she doesn't actively reach out to communicate with him like Vader and Luke do in the following scene.
Return of the Jedi doesn't show her using it either, other than maybe for knowing that Luke made it off the Death Star at the very end, once again.
And you could also argue that what she does in TLJ isn't a conscious use of the force, but more of a subconscious or half-conscious instict. It is just a force pull afterall, every jedi's first trick.
Her feats in the OT are very vague and not really something you see the other Force users doing.
It could be the Force.
It could be Women's intuition
It could be something to do with them being Twins.
This all would not have been an issue if they did a simple fricking scene of Luke training Leia some where before Leia got sucked out into space. Hell, have her flash back DURING the suck.
But no, they just left it completely unexplained how she got the ability to use the powers.
The powers she used are so beyond the scope of other force users that it requires some kind of explanation or set up. She did telekinesis a weapon. She didn't even jump high, run fast, or mind trick someone. She literally bubbled herself like some Wizard Of Oz shit in the Hell of space from an explosion and flew. What the frick is that? It's beyond Emperor level power. Just dropped in and you're expected to never question it.
>She literally bubbled herself like some Wizard Of Oz shit in the Hell of space from an explosion and flew.
She didn't "fly". She used force-pull.
Flying would be moving through a gas, using its friction, flow or density to counteract gravity. What Leia did was to create an impulse to propell herself in a low-fiction environment. This requires very little force, physically speaking. Much less than pulling a weapon stuck in snow.
>She pulled the ship back to her
That makes it better?
She didn't pull the ship. She pulled herself to the ship. When there's a force between a small body and a large body, the small body will be attracted to the larger one moreso than the other way around (because you need less force to move little mass than you need to move a huge mass).
So Yoda was pulling himself to the X-Wing in the swamp?
>So Yoda was pulling himself to the X-Wing in the swamp?
No, because the force he applied was an upwards force. That means the force working on him was an additional downwards force. So he was pulling himself towards the ground. I's like when you're lifting up bad of groceries. You're working against gravity there to pull the bag, so the gravity working on the bag also affects you.
This is all really simple Newtonian mechanics, anon.
He lifted it up and then pulled it towards him, why didn't he get pulled towards it?
>why didn't he get pulled towards it?
Friction. Have you ever seen a strongman pull a truck with a rope? It's all about friction. If he lacks friction, he might get drawn towards the truck. But if he has a good opposition to the ground, he'll be able to pull the truck towards him (the wheels help overcome the friction that the truck has with the ground).
Reminder that the ship was moving. And that, objects in space keep moving and they canonically used fuel, it was constantly accelerating. So Leia didn't just pull herself to the ship. She moved faster than an already accelerating spacecraft to catch up to it.
Anyway, doesn't matter what hoops you jump through. It looked fricking stupid and, putting aside the feasibility of her surviving such an incident, it did almost nothing for the movie and would have worked better narratively if she had just died there.
>So Leia didn't just pull herself to the ship. She moved faster than an already accelerating spacecraft to catch up to it.
If you hold onto a moving car, anon, with a constant of force, what happens to you?
Really, why do you idiots not understand simple physics but think you can bash a film for once not being completely unscientific.
lol we're just mocking you for trying to apply physics to space magic.
>mocking you for trying to apply physics to space magic.
Sure thing, brainlet. Apparently physics don't apply then anywhere in Star Wars?
>If you hold onto a moving car, anon, with a constant of force, what happens to you?
You certainly don't move faster than the car, which is what Leia must have done to close the distance and return to the ship, you fricking moron. Not to mention I think it's dubious at best to treating the force as some sort of mage hand for the sake of your argument. We know it can move you, and it can move things around you. I think it's reasonable to say the force could be used to propel yourself through a space with no resistance, it's a stretch to start ambiguously assigning it the properties of an invisible rope.
>but think you can bash a film for once not being completely unscientific.
As I already said, the science doesn't even really matter. The scene is still stupid, visually and narratively. Normalgays aren't considering the physics properties when they mock it. They're laughing at her flying through space like Dracula.
>not really something you see the other Force users doing
It's actually something you see force users do all the time. Yoda always "senses" shit, both in the OT and the prequels. Obi-Wan senses the destruction of Alderaan. Vader senses Obi-Wan and later Luke and even later he senses that Luke thinks of Leia as his sister.
It's definitely something the Force is used for, repeatedly.
>would not have been an issue if they did a simple fricking scene of Luke training Leia
Do you really need everything spelled out to you?
>Do you really need everything spelled out to you?
When the story we're given is
>The Force requires a lot of training
>Luke gave up training after his nephew went school shooter
>Leia never meditates, wears Jedi robes, uses a lightsaber, or does any other obvious Jedi stuff before this point
>If she's so powerful in the Force, why the big search for Luke?
then yes, I need it spelled out that Leia has her Jedi license.
The Force is Female, chud. That's all you need to know.
>her Jedi license
You don't need your "Jedi license" for a simple force pull. Luke could do it with no formal training at all.
Luke had already been coached by 0b-1 by the time he could move object on Hoth, and had already passed his force initiation at the end of ANH. Leigh was never shown to ever do anything even slightly force related, except forcing my wiener to grow three sizes.
>Luke had already been coached by 0b-1 by the time he could move object on Hoth
Not according to the film. He seemed rather surprised when Obi-Wan appeared to him as a force ghost "in the flesh" on Hoth.
But even if he had been been taught that trick between films by Obi-Wan, why are you okay with that, but not with Leia's training being offscreened, to the point where you demand a flashback (something Star Wars usually avoids doing)?
Did you not watch the end of ANH where obi appears and coaches Luke on using the force? Then he uses it. Then boom, he is a level 1 jedi, and can get move object, a first level force power. Leigh only ever took levels of diplomat, despite possibly being force sensitive. West End and WotC confirm this.
>the end of ANH where obi appears and coaches Luke on using the force?
He tells him to use the force to target. He never teaches him to force-pull stuff.
Just like Leia is clearly shown using the force to "feel" stuff, but not to force-pull it the OT.
You are intentionally missing that Obi taught Luke the force, and no one ever taught Leigh anything. Don't get hung up on the specifics of the powers and levels.
>Obi taught Luke the force, and no one ever taught Leigh anything.
Leia used the Force in the OT. You can try denying that, but it's made pretty clear in TESB at the very least. She didn't learn any tricks, but neither did Luke. All Obi-Wan taught him to be sensitive to it.
She was able to sense Luke but that's the most basic thing to do as it comes down to the bonds you have with others. Telekinesis is something you have to learn.
>but that's the most basic thing to do
Well, then Luke sensing where to shoot at in the trench run also is the most basic thing, right?
>Telekinesis is something you have to learn.
Okay. And when are we shown Luke learn it?
>Well, then Luke sensing where to shoot at in the trench run also is the most basic thing, right?
Yes, because he's done it before when he'd shoot at Womprats back on Tatooine. Pay attention to the dialogue.
>Okay. And when are we shown Luke learn it?
In ESB, when Yoda teaches him. Again, pay attention.
>Yes
Good. Then we agree that both Luke and Leia were shown doing only the most basic things before they used force-pull for their respective first times, and were never shown studying that technique.
>In ESB, when Yoda teaches him.
Luke used force-pull before even meeting Yoda. You cannot argue that Luke knew how to do it on Hoth because he learned it a month later on Dagobah.
>a simple force pull
Imagine being this disingenuous
>disingenuous
Do you even know what that word means?
Explain why a force pull wouldn't result in exactly what we've seen. And, no, "Mauler said so" is not an argument.
Luke, son of the chosen one, couldn't force pull an F-16 after training from Grand Wizard Yoda, but Leia can yoink a whole fricking capital ship?
>Yeah but Luke pulls his laser dildo out of the ic-
A LIGHTSABER IS SMALLER THAN A CAPITAL SHIP!!!
>Leia can yoink a whole fricking capital ship?
Except she didn't "yoink a ship". What made pulling the X-Wing difficult was gravity. That ship Leia "yoiked" (according to you) didn't need to be moved, and there was minimal gravity involved (because no massive objects were anywhere near). That means all Leia needed to do was to apply a modicum of force to gain a momentum towards the ship. And that momentum would do the rest. If she kept applying that little bit of force over time, she'd not only move towards the ship, but also accelerate towards it (building more and more momentum over time), since there was no friction to reduce the momentum. She'd also get accelerated by any momentum of the ship in the same direction.
You really should do yourself a favour and refresh your basic physics knowledge.
>physics
>Soft science fiction
Pick ONLY ONE. Nobody ever complained the hyperspace ram was unscientific, they complained it was moronic and broke the lore. Star Wars isn't realistic, and it isn't meant to be. Your dumb ass is arguing how physics applies to magic telekinesis. I'm trying to beat into your iron skull how it clashes with the established rules of the fictional universe.
Physics generally apply in Star Wars. Like it or not. Very little in the films outright contradicts physics, other than maybe laser-weapons ... and sound in space, of course.
All it does is to add a bit of magic/telekinesis and ficticious inventions into the mix, but even then things do not disobey the general laws of physics. For example, gravity still exists and affects things. Light works like you'd expect it to. Thermodynamics apply. And so on.
If physics didn't work as they do, it'd be quite messy, if not surreal.
nta but star wars has always been about the characters and the worldbuilding and any similarities to real world physics is coincidental. The point the other anon is trying to drill into your ancephalic skull is not that the holdo maneuver is physically impossible (we can’t know because we don’t have hyperspace drives) but that in the star wars galaxy it completely ruins everything about how conflicts are handled due to how destructive it is and how cheaply it could be done. The force in general is in a similar situation. It doesn’t have to be “realistic” (heck it might even be better if it isn’t) but holy shit make it self-consistent
>any similarities to real world physics is coincidental.
I never said that physics were the focus or that the creators tried hard to keep physics intact.
Nonetheless, they did, probably because there was never any reason to alter physics.
>The point the other anon is trying to drill into your ancephalic skull is not that the holdo maneuver is physically impossible
This discussion is not and was never about the Holdo maneuver. It was about Leia pulling herself to the ship. And some rather ignorant people here insisting that she could not have done that with a simple force pull, when that's exactly what a force pull would do, according to the physics that generally apply, both in the real world and in Star Wars.
If you cannot follow a discussion on a fricking image board, don't try to butt in.
You're being disingenuous and you know it
In the movies, which is the only thing most people have seen, she has never once showed Force abilities besides maybe the thing with "knowing" about Like. That could be explained away as a twin thing or just family, or it could be the Force but it's never explained.
As for Starkiller,He was knocked out of...the deathstar...maybe a super star destroyer's window(it's been literally nearly 20 years since I played it) and died in the first game. He was not able to pull himself back in, he just fricking died. He was trained from a very young age and is very strong with the force. If ANYONE could have pulled it off in the "modern" setting, it was him
>He was not able to pull himself back in
That's more of a jab on the game then, because force pulling yourself towards something is fricking easy when there isn't a (physical) force acting on you in the other direction.
No, it's an issue with how Modern Star Wars is written.
Getting ejected in to space was treated as a very dangerous thing and nearly instantly incapacitates you. Now it's something that someone who might of dabbled in some training years ago can survive. They have upped the "power levels". People who were not strong with the Force are now able to use the Force without explanation. People are pulling new powers out of their ass left and right. Like Force Healing, Force Astral Projection, Force Heart Attacks, Good Force Lightning, and Force Teleportation. Now would any of these really be an issue? No, unless you ask the question "why was none of these abilities used during the PT When they Jedi where at the pinnacle of their power? Why did Obi-Wan not Force Heal Qui-Gon? Seems like the type of ability the Jedi Council would really like everyone to know. Why did Yoda not call upon the power of Force Zeus to smite Palpatine in the Senate?
"well they did not know about it!" BULLSHIT! Baby Yoda knows how to Force Heal. He was from the Republic and the Jedi Temple. Someone had to teach him that. Unless it's something innate to the species, which again brings up more issues. Why does Yoda not use Force Heal on Ani and Obi-Wan after the fight with Dooku? Why did he not teach it to the other...Non-Yodaling Masters/Jedi? We know humans(ones that have like a business week's worth of Jedi training from someone who have never Force Healed) can do it, so again why keep this ability secret?
>Getting ejected in to space was treated as a very dangerous thing and nearly instantly incapacitates you.
That makes no sense. Why would it? There's nothing in space that would do this to your body.
Are you applying Hollywood logic, where your head explodes due to the pressure difference or something?
It's a space fantasy, not the real world. The rules are whatever has been established. Zoomers really don't know about internal consistency?
>The rules are whatever has been established.
And the only rules established in the film about being "in space" were in TESB, on two occasions:
Once when Luke is hanging below Cloud City on Bespin, which might or might not be within an atmosphere.
And then when Han and Leia take a stroll in some strange critter's stomach, which is loceted in an asteroid, which is in outer space.
Not the best examples, but the best have from the films before TLJ.
None of those contradict "the real world".
Some parts of the EU might, but they're irrelevant.
>"Within a very short time, a matter of 10 to 15 seconds, you will become unconscious because of a lack of oxygen," according to Stefaan de Mey, a senior strategy officer at the European Space Agency (ESA) charged with coordinating the strategy area for human and robotic exploration. The oxygen starts expanding and rupturing your lungs, tearing them apart — and that would cause boiling and bubbling of your blood, which immediately will cause embolism and have a fatal impact on your body," de Mey said. In the best-case scenario, you'd have a few seconds before the oxygen in your bloodstream would be used up, causing you to pass out. Because you'd be unable to alter your dire situation, brain death would follow within minutes, unless you were rescued and brought back to the safety of the pressurized, oxygen-rich environment of a spacecraft and resuscitated.
Care to revise your statement, Einstein?
>Within a very short time, a matter of 10 to 15 seconds, you will become unconscious because of a lack of oxygen,
That's 10 to 15 seconds after running out of oxygen. As long as you still have some in your system, you won't. If you hold your breath, that can last you half a minute plus.
>The oxygen starts expanding and rupturing your lungs, tearing them apart — and that would cause boiling and bubbling of your blood, which immediately will cause embolism and have a fatal impact on your body
Now this is complete and utter nonsense. Not sure where you got that quote from, but it's not at all in accord with what actual cases of animals and even people being exposed to a vacuum have shown. Those cases are rare, of course, but they do exist.
>>Just hold your breath, bro
>The oxygen starts expanding and rupturing your lungs, tearing them apart — and that would cause boiling and bubbling of your blood, which immediately will cause embolism and have a fatal impact on your body
>>Durr, what's your source?
>Stefaan de Mey, a senior strategy officer at the European Space Agency (ESA) charged with coordinating the strategy area for human and robotic exploration
In other words, you won't give the source of that claim.
Are you moronic?
Source or frick off.
Out of context quotes won't do.
Lol you were the original claimant, where's your source? Anyways, I provided mine, if you can't google the article that's your problem, gaygio.
>I provided mine
Except you did not. Good day to you, troll.
Yeah, the big issue is that nothing is built or foreshadowed. It's like they completely ignored the very concept of a story structure.
You're remembering wrong. He was thrown through the window and then immediately taken by a droid. He survived, but it took like six months of recovery in an Imperial medical station before he was conscious again.
Pretty much anyone can afford a spaceship with a hyperdrive in star wars. A ship has enough mass by itself to destroy a planet at ftl speed so you wouldn't even need a rock. A suicidal person could take out a billion people if they wanted.
then why did they ever build a star destroyer or anything other big weapons
when hyperspace missiles is all they needed for anything..
why build big ships ???
It doesn't make any fricking sense
>here are Kamikaze droids that are attached to giant chucks of metal with Hyperdrive engines and basic controls to engage the engine
>Fleets, shipyards, and whole planets are obliterated for the cost of one droid and some Hyperdrive engines. The metal used for the body of the ship can be reclaimed along with all the other scrap/resources.
>Droids
>A suicidal person
Bros, you could just pilot the ship from your fricking phone.
The Last Jedi was the best Star Wars movie to ever be created.
To bad it didn't end with Rey and Kylo's marriage as the Winter Queen and King destroying the Jedi and Sith orders and ruling the galaxy in peace.
You know how SWgays reacted when Lucas did something new.
autism
This scene and concept were so fricking stupid and called out and ridiculed by so many people they had to immediately retcon it with dialogue in the next movie calling it a one in a million thing because otherwise it totally ruins every aspect of space combat in Star Wars and like many other aspects of TLJ just breaks the lore. The only people who defend this shit are weird Disney obsessed leftists. They act like this is the only off part of that film when it's the one that had to the flying Leia scene too, just a massive pile of shit
>had to
No one "had to" do anything.
But you do know JJ Abrams. He desperately seeks approval from those fanboys on the internet.
only morons that know nothing about weapon research will say shit like this
It's stupid either way. If it normally works that way it's fricking ridiculous literally no one ever thought of this really obvious and useful thing. If it was 1 in a million then basically she never had a plan and it was pure desperation.
>she never had a plan
Of course she never had the plan to do this. Did you even watch TLJ? She does it because Poe spills her actual plan to the enemy and they then start discovering and firing on the other ships.
If the Millennium Falcon can just travel to and from the low speed chase at will, why didn't they just do like 30 trips and evacuate the entire resistance?
I count myself lucky for not being a Star Wars fan.
Galaxy full of trillions of people, advanced robots, etc. Of fricking course at least one person has thought of using a spaceship as a hyperspeed weapon
I think ship ramming would be a cool thing but not hyperspace initiated
if i made the sequels that is what i would have introduced
like a star destroyer with a hard front and frontal facing cannons that rams into enemy ships and then salvo the remains
cause it was big dumb
one of the first rules for any story is to establish boundaries and rules
star destroyers don't fly in the atmosphere, you don't hyperspace ram, the force is not caused by midichlorians, etc
plus they've been able to prevent enemy ships from entering hyperspace for, oh I dunno, thirty years at that time?
You have to be a maximum brainlet not to get why this 'change' was dumb.
Because Star Wars is personal and Star Wars fans relationship to the series is nearly completely defined by the era in which they grew up--it's also a fanbase practically entirely comprised of adults. Star Wars iconography and toys are immortal but that creates young Star Wars "fans" the same way a lot of kids in the 90s and early 2000s got into James Bond via the video games. And then of course, when we finally see a James Bond film, it's completely disappointing because we're hoping for something to match all the rooty-tooty shooting we have been doing on the PlayStation 2.
The more they flesh out the world of Star Wars, the less interesting it all becomes. More is less, and over time the ambiguity of an unseen world and unseen timelines that led to the films people loved originally feels more and more boxed in when we see the same stories play out with the same characters. And then in the new films they brought the main cast back and made the two most important characters related to characters from the old films--big oopsy daisy. there's only one good Star Wars film and it's the very first one.
It's no surprise to me that opinions have softened on the Prequel Trilogy now that all the kids who grew up with those on VHS and DVDs are grown-ups now, just like it was no surprise when manbabies made a huge stink about Disney setting the novels and novelization shit on fire--as if any of that shit was actually good. It was just people who are 35 now who read about The Extended Adventures of Dag Mashtar in middle school and thought it was peak. I'm sure we're 10-20 years away from the youtube essayists of tomorrow deciding that Solo is "pretty good, ackshually". If you haven't done so already, go check out one of those newer 4K scans of an original print of A New Hope. So so good.
Decades of EU lore disagrees with you. The prequels expanded the universe immensely, and revitalized the brand for more than a decade.
the only prequel that anyone even halfway liked at the time was Episode III, which wasn't very good either. Of course that didn't stop people from seeing them. But it didn't fool anyone either. Soft sci-fi doesn't play nice when you keep jamming lore into it, because it either all fits together and is stupid or doesn't fit together and it's stupid.
Quit being a pretentious nerd. You losers hate on everything.
>the only prequel that anyone even halfway liked at the time
Children liked all of them, anon. Because children don't have high standards in film in general and don't come with preconceived notions about specific franchises.
EU fans made a huge deal about the Thrawn Trilogy like its the greatest shit ever. I read through it and quickly realized how ass it all was. Those geeks got no taste.
>morons arguing about things not making sense or being unrealistic in Star Wars
nerds always miss the point. just like Blade Runner--I love that the big questions dorks like to ask is "B-B-BUT IS HE A ROBOT OR NOT?" Talk about missing the point.
The prequels were a much bigger "change" to Star Wars in pretty much every respect than the sequels though. And while the movies themselves were shat on, the setting was very well received by fans.
Just two different ways to fail. The prequel trilogy tried to take the series in a new direction and failed, but the sequel trilogy kept inviting comparisons to movies and scenes and characters that they were doing a worse job of.
>The prequel trilogy tried to take the series in a new direction and failed
It absolutely did not. Were you even alive when they came out?
Are you seriously fricking kidding me? The Phantom Menace was a laughing-stock and their were parodies of how fricking boring Episode II was for YEARS afterward.
Is it ALL a total wash? I would guess not. But just because something "ain't that bad" doesn't mean it's worth wasting your time on. Terminator 3 and Aliens 3 are both "not that bad". They are still a waste of time compared to their counterparts. And every time they do yet another bad Star Wars film or TV show, it just creates a thicker line between the few good bits and everything else. Star Wars? Great! Empire? Good! Return? OK! Prequels? Pretty bad! Sequels? Really bad! Spinoffs? Mixed bag, mostly bad! It just creates more and more and more media the exists under the fold of the good ones. The more there is, the more it all feels like a waste to try and rehab something from a 4/10 to a 6/10.
women ruin everything. Everything sucks now because woke women were let into male spaces and instead of being gatekept. Good thing I don't give a damn anymore.
>women ruin everything.
Not a single woman was involved in writing any of the sequel scripts.
In fact, the only time a woman was ever involved in any Star Wars feature screenplay was Leigh Brackett for The Empire Strikes Back. And it's pretty much universally agreed upon that she's the one responsible for structuring the whole thing properly, improving it massively from what Lucas and Kasdan could have produced.
George Lucas' wife had an extremely significant contribution in editing the first film.
>in editing the first film.
Yes. But editing is not the same as writing a screenplay. It is making certain story decisions, but that's after all of it has already been shot. It can alter, can even create new connections. But it cannot create something entirely new. You can do that when writing a script.
ok you have one example. Of course there are women who loved nerd stuff for the same reasons we do/did and are skilled and make good entertainment, but those are far and few. I said we should have gatekept woke women , which lead to all the horseshit that we see in literally EVERY IP that has a dedicated nerd community(mostly men) that has been decimated because woke women were let in and they decided things needed to change.
Always get a kek out of slop wars man babies middle aged neckbeards REEEEing over space ships
TAKE A SHOWER
HIT THE WEIGHTS
GET A CLUE
It's almost like this is a franchise made specifically to sell toys to children and you're not supposed to think about it.