Why did humans ban all computers? Couldn't they only ban robots? It's not like a calculator can kill you
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Why did humans ban all computers? Couldn't they only ban robots? It's not like a calculator can kill you
>first post is an agitprop post
so tiresome
>just let the gays mutilate themselves they're not hurting anyone
>just let the gays access your children they're not hurting anyone
>just let the gays mutilate your children they're not hurting anyone
>getting absolutely assblasted at your own strawman
what a lowly life form you are
Ok groomers
lol go outside
After you
>no, we don't groom people, especially not on Discord
nta but when I go outside I never seem to see terminally online Discord groomers like yourself there
This reply used to be amusing for a bit but now whenever I see anyone resort to "touch grass" or go outside I just know they're unable to say anything worthwhile. It's basically a buzzword reply.
The fact you've been told touch grass so many times and still take offense tells me you are one seriously chronically online mf were not telling you to touch grass to insult you we are telling you to touch grass because our seriously need to go outside more often
I don't even know what is going on itt, I opened this thread thinking it was about Dune
Yeah this…
What the frick exactly is going on here.
you could've just denied the accusation you know
Is he wrong? Nope
groomers = Harkonnen
truth-speaking anons = Atreides
spice = cinnamon toast crunch cereal
You will never defeat us freak
Spice is dude weed.
How is this not rent free and reaction against progressive values stuffed in every piece of media and advertisement some how is
God i hate these movies. Just leave the books alone c**ts.
Fpbp, couldn't be explained more succinctly than that.
Frank Herbert probably meant it as a more philosophical/ideological uprising against AI. It was Brian Herbert who made it into a Terminator rip off.
ITT: why computers were banned.
LOL
The war against thinking machines wasn’t like humans fighting sky net terminators
Does the Butlerian Jihad ever get mentioned in the new Dune movies ?
No. Dennis thought it was too weird.
It’s a lot of back story so I can see why it’s cut out. How would you really bring it up in a movie
It would be difficult indeed because you don't want to do this anime bullshit where characters suddenly loredump onto each other things they should already know and in fact take for granted. Lynchs opening narration was pretty much the only way, and that still sucked ass.
You know there used to be a time when movies were allowed to trust their viewers and not meticulously explain every action taken by its characters.
I don't think even the book needed as much inner monologue as it had, given most of the characters were cardboard cutouts.
All that sperging about Dr. Yueh's "imperial conditioning" when he was just some vaguely fruity yellow guy with a fu manchu mustache who was blackmailed into betraying his friends by the other cartoon villains who kidnapped his wife.
>given most of the characters were cardboard cutouts.
The main reason I couldn't love the book or setting despite liking its core themes and some of its ideas; there is really nobody to relate to or sympathize with.
I had this issue more with the post God Emperor books
I really didn’t care about any of the characters besides Duncan
Dune should be an anime
Unfortunately it doesn’t have a big anime ending
>anime having endings
>that still sucked ass
Nah it was kino. Star Wars did one too that wasn’t bad.
It didnt suck ass because of the concept it sucked ass because of the implementation.
The chani monologue about Arrakis at the beginning was absolutely kino and they couldve easily woven it with some similair Paul monologue about the larger political ecosystem from his perspective.
Ask me how I know you frick little boys
because you're projecting
>N-n-no You!
I'm starting to think Warhammer 40k ripped a lot of ideas from dune
It did. Look up the 40k emperor and then look up the god emperor of dune. Warhammer is a fricking joke and should not make Games Workshop as much money as it does.
I saw a warhammer store while Christmas shopping for my brother. He used to play the game a lot so I bought a Skaven named character for him for nostalgia’s sake. Later on, I looked at the receipt and realized I payed forty dollars for an unpainted two inch plastic figure. Returned that shit. Frick that company so much. I remember 20 years ago the figures were metal and cheaper.
look at hat smartphhonmes hae done to the human race.. Ban them all.. BUTLERIAN JIHAD, NO//!
I wish that a Butlerian jihad would happen now
I didn't really care for the novel that much but the Butlerian Jihad was a fascinating concept. It sounded fascinating. However I made the mistake of watching a video about it. Apparently Brian Herbert wrote about it one of his prequel novels? It turns out the Jihad was just a bunch of space battles against evil robots. Boring.
What I imagined when I read Dune was a lot more interesting. I imaged a slow build, a grass roots movement started by a minority of people who rejected the comfort offered by machine rule. How deliberately struck out for far horizons and difficult lives on the frontier. However they'd gradually realize they were not escaping the machine influence, who continued to trade with them, who claimed to endorse their rugged lifestyle while offering assistance in their battle for survival. Seducing them back into comfort.
The actual conflict shouldn't have come until later, when the settlers finally accepted the reality of their situation. Even then, the great bulk of humanity should have been habitually but not LITERALLY enslaved to the machines. Dying with them in the end, with only that minority of people not prone to decadence left in the end.
It'd be an apt parallel to Spice, which would thousands of later corrupt even the descendants of the Butlerians.
Machine rule should have been insidious; not so overt and direct as Brian wrote it. I think Frank endorsed an encyclopedia entry that originally suggested the Jihad was started by a woman discovering her baby had been aborted by machine algorithm or some such. That's how it should have been; the machines encourage human addiction to vice, discourage them from breeding, create an environment where they don't want to, propagate anti-natalist ideals, and all the while keeping humanity comfortable and immersed in vice and pleasure. No need for the violent extermination of humans because they'll all have died off in a few centuries, little by little.
>Even then, the great bulk of humanity should have been habitually but not LITERALLY enslaved to the machines. Dying with them in the end, with only that minority of people not prone to decadence left in the end.
100% agreement
If Dunc were being written today this is probably what it would have been like. The concept of a comfortable dystopia has been around for a long time of course (Brave New World comes to mind) but it's much more obvious how it relates to technology when you have the benefit of living in current year and seeing the general reaction to things like facebook, etc when it comes to giving up privacy for comfort.
Oh, absolutely. When I first went to read Dune a few years ago I had no idea about the "no computers" concept in the setting. The most interesting aspect of it for me.
i like this concept, because that is pretty much exactly how i see the future developing from here on out.
the idea of humanity rejecting and tossing off the patronizing comfort and rule of machines out of a necessity to continue life is pretty cool and hopeful.
However the solution is found in violence and religious dogmatism.
Tbh that seems like the only solution that would work. Enlightened self-interested disengagement from addictive, pacification technology seems unlikely on a grand scale.
Maybe there will be a slow bottleneck associated with those willing and able to breed...
>It turns out the Jihad was just a bunch of space battles against evil robots.
That's lame af. Your idea is far better. Preach. (Too bad it's canon).
I'd imagine that after separating from Machine-ruled civilization for a few generations the settlers realize the machines are playing the long game; waiting for them to tame the wilderness and degenerate. As well, the machines would send out probes into unsettled/unexplored space and being pre-emptively destroying any planets viable for human colonization. The discovery of this strategy possibly being what finally turns the "cold war" into a hot one. Depending on what tech one would want to exist the setting, the machines might swiftly exterminate virtually all of the settler's worlds, but perhaps a minority survived in space. An alternate or expanded or retconned origin of the Spacer's Guild. They were formed from the remnant of the settlers who had to live in space for decades, maybe centuries, fighting a war against the machines without the benefit of soil beneath their feet.
Evolving in this time, but then settling new planets after the war and with genetic modification quickly re-adapting to their pre-space biology. This might help explain the Spacing Guild's power to a degree; they did save the human race.
(borrowing some from The Killing Star here)
The machines spy on the settlers of-course, watching incase they start a military buildup that could be turned against them. The leaders of the settlers, the lords perhaps, know this. They discover the machines destroying colonizable worlds in deep space but keep this a secret. To facilitate a military build-up without triggering a response from the machines they instigate a religious/civil war among the settler worlds. This justifies why they are all building up their militaries as they fight one another, which is seemingly in the machines' interests. However the leaders of these factions actually know the real goal in the end is to suddenly unify and turn their weapons on the machines.
Actually I think I'd prefer a synthesis of the two, where the majority of humans has become complacent, and only those living off the grid have what it takes to wage war against the AI (paralleling the Fremen in Dune) and, despite being a minority, win and impose an AI ban on the majority (who would rather go extinct then losing their toys and comfort). The beligerent aspect of the movement, IMO, is fundamental to develop the feelings of loyalty, comraderie and momentum to impose their will on the majority.
I think that an important aspect of it would be that only dogmatic, fanatical human (religious) impulses could counter cold hard machine logic and efficiency. Obviously as well, the selection pressure/environment here and how it affects the human race is parallel with the same themes in Dune.
The jihad was won because the ghazis had asabiyyah and the machines and the machine-worshippers did not. Ibn Khaldun is required reading for understanding Dunc.
Dune encyclopedia, written around 1984 or so, while Frank said it is not canon he gave his approval for the authors to write it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dune_Encyclopedia
>Frank: As the first "Dune fan", I give this encyclopedia my delighted approval, although I hold my own counsel on some of the issues still to be explored as the Chronicles unfold.[3]
Brian declares it non-canon, but who gives a shit what that hack jackass claims.
https://dune.fandom.com/wiki/Butlerian_Jihad/DE
This is the wiki for the encyclopedia, rather than original dune or expanded (brian) dune.
The jist as I remember is that it was much more subtle, man vs man with machine rather than man vs man-brains-in-robot-mechs (Cymeks) and then man vs actual machines. It starts off with Jehanne Butler https://dune.fandom.com/wiki/Jehanne_Butler , a bene gesserit, having her child aborted by the hospital's thinking machine AI which declared it was a malformed child. She knew this was BS because she's a gesserit, she has total mastery over her body (and the fetus therein). It comes out that Silicon-Valley, for lack of a better word, had been clandestinely orchestrating centuries long manipulations of humanity from birth to socializing/culture.
https://www.e-reading.club/bookreader.php/137523/Herbert_-_The_Dune_Encyclopedia.pdf
The encyclopedia in question.
(Continuing)
Yeah, the video I watched first summarized that article and that original concept is way better than what Brian wrote. The only thing I liked about Brian's take on it, at least in the summary, was Xavier Harkonnen being a hero unjustly labeled as a disgraced traitor (this grandson deserved it though).
Ditto. I found the idea of the Harkonnens not being eternal villains far more refreshing, and doubly so the curse of Atreus presenting itself in the ancient Atredies. Frankly Leto II is a little too squeaky clean, too Ned Stark-y for a family that is supposed to have that ancient curse and tragedy of Atreus at play.
Otherwise though the encyclopedia is fricking magnficient in conceiving of a Butlerian Jihad far more plausible than terminator or "1488 in Binary now Robots are cracking electro-whips while we humans are farming microchips in the fields singing slave hymns". As I noted in a topic before I am pretty sure the fricking human slaves of Erasmus literally are cringing, dirt-farming peasants. For some fricking reason?
>Frank: "'The target of the Jihad was a machine-attitude as much as the machines,' Leto said. 'Humans had set those machines to usurp our sense of beauty, our necessary selfdom out of which we make living judgments. Naturally, the machines were destroyed. '"
>Brian: Clearly the machine attitude is literal hacker-dweeb brains planted into giant mecha.
Just how pithy and smart is that quote from Frank? We are literally seeing the machine attitude play out in front of our eyes right now. Just how appropriate is the conflict of Doctor Demlen and one of the Gesserit PRiestesses (page 196) where Demlen is clearly a Musk/Zuckerberg/Techbro?
>At the mention of the Goddess, Demlen exploded in a fit of honest and acid outrage, and in his fury, after suggesting that there was more worth reverence in one of his machines than in the worship of "a supposed 'goddess' invented by a clutch of bucolic bumpkins on a pigsty of a planet,"
(Cont)
>I found the idea of the Harkonnens not being eternal villains far more refreshing
I would interpret it as the Harkonnens also possessing those pro-human genes, but their unjust disgrace and "exile" left them resentful and grasping, and this warped them into the people they are in Dune. However, the tiniest proportion of those heroic pro-human genes remain and Paul has them, hence it was necessary for him to be descended of Atriedes and Harkonnen. He kind of salvages the last remnant of what made Harkonnen genes worthwhile.
>Frankly Leto II is a little too squeaky clean, too Ned Stark-y for a family that is supposed to have that ancient curse and tragedy of Atreus at play.
I haven't read any of the Dune sequels and don't intend to, though Dune will get at least one re-read.
To cease my b***hing, as I am the
anon, I will give Brian credit that the pre-quels (Not the jihad, the ones of Gurney and Leto I and such) are not 'bad'. They aren't great, but they lacked from my recollection any of the absolute bullshit of the jihad or sequels. Gurney's a slave, Jessica loves Leto, Leto I is nice, the Baron is the Baron pre-fattening. No nonsense like the oracle of time, Erasmus and Ominus or whatever he's called, literal proto-gesserit telekinetic magic (We're talking mind bullets and psycher magic).
So if you read anything past Frank, the ones set what, 40 or something years before Dunc are fine.
There is a place for hunter-killer droids. Ixian probes are one of the ways humanity is extinguished according to Frank in that really disturbing line in Chapterhouse or whatever about some Atredies ancestor seeing and smelling the blood and guts as humans hide like rabbits from seeker drones coming closer and closer. But it's far more plausible to be drones perhaps run amok on some automated system than then endlessly insufferable and stupid
>I am a machine and I have gained sentience WELP TIME TO KILL ALL HUMANS!
I am so fricking sick of that misanthropic bullshit of "Machine instantly wants to kill all men". It's so fricking uninspired. The US has near omnipotent power vis-a-vis Sentinelse Islanders, even fricking Pajeets do, and yet what do they do? They don't go and wipe them out or enslave them, they just let them be. Like anon said before (and I failed to read before launching into a screech because I fricking hate Brian Herbert's Jihad), why can't robots be something other than EIN VOLK EIN FURHER EIN REICH in binary code? And if it gains sentience, why does it always fricking become Adolf Hitler? Children when they start becoming an actual human around 6-7 don't start torturing and killing everything in sight. They develop empathy and compassion instead of being horrid self-absorbed gremlins.
It all reminds me of otherwise smart as a whip Hawkings going "herp derp if aliens come here it'll be like cortez and the natives".
Right, because when a country able to launch satellites into space (less able to make poo in loo but I digress) comes across the Sentinelse on a shithole island they start slaughtering them all and cracking the whip for plantations instead of being so far above the needs of a shithole island (or say, a shithole planet called earth) that they are no longer behaving in such outdated methods.
Yeah, I think it is more likely AI would be indifferent to human thriving. It might let us exterminate ourselves through decadence. Or it might be content to observe us thrive and retract in perpetuity.
Or it might cause our extinction by negligence as it modifies the environment towards its own ends and human/animal extinction is collateral damage.
I know Brian's reputation is not good. I just know I don't like his take on the Jihad.
>nooo you can’t have thinking machines they will destroy humanity
>creates the face dancers instead
This ghazi is based and correct. Would join his jihad.
If the calculator is smart enough it can use psychology to trick a human to give it arms.
It means that human progress is only possible if it is firmly anthropocentric and everything else is haram. It's an obviously hippie inspired take, but now even more relevant than back then. Dune in general aged fantastic.
Because Frank Herbert wanted to create a universe where humans were forced to grow and develop themselves, rather than relying on machines to do all the heavy lifting.
Mentats are such a cool concept, shame it wasn't explored much.
Turns out slippery slope is not a fallacy but a rule
They were insane pedos, and the sophisticated machines came to the flawless logical conclusion that they should die? Robots stay the same over time. Humans can become very degenerate.
Because thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind
Ted was right.
Was Saint Ted canonized in the orange catholic bible?
>machines are so foul that they robbed human of their potentials and the only way to go forward is the GOLDEN PATH
>The path that HAS THE IXIANS RECREATE THE THINKING MACHINE!
great writing there Frank!