Why did Sandman fail?
>excellent acting
>perfect casting
>Neil Gaiman said it was accurate to the comics
>amazing CGI
>critics loved it
>number one show in the world
>no season 2 renewal
Just doesn’t make sense
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Rape you in the mouth
case closed
It’s a mystery to me anon
You’re not real fans
But why black Gaiman? Why is she black? Why not asian?
A hot asian girl would've been great.
Thats what they dont get it. Thats like casting a harpy for atlantis citizins.
People loved Death for "who she was" and who she was was a perky goth chick, not a generic African woman wearing an ankh.
yeah I stopped giving a frick about what Gaiman thinks when he apologized for daring to show an abusive lesbian relationship or whatever the frick wasn't woke enough about Wanda, the fact that the show is what it is didn't surprise me in the least
>Have a character look a certain way and people like it
>DUUUUR YOU CAN'T DISLIKE ME CHANGING THE LOOKS OF THE CHARACTER LOOK WHAT'S ON THE INSIDE
If her looks didn't matter you wouldn't have changed it in the first place.
>the writers literally changed her from a hot white goth chick to another moronic WEWUZer
She's still reasonably cute, it's just sad it's such a blatantly political move. They didn't even bother to give her the swirly eyeshadow.
This right here. I can move past hiring someone who looks nothing like the character INHERENTLY as long as they use makeup or something to compensate. If they don't bother with even that they can go frick themselves because it's just lazy. Frankly I as a black dude am insulted that they think just race swapping is appealing to me. Give me some of the cool black characters from the comics instead of changing something. Or God forbid be original and make a new story. Blood Syndicate show never ever although seeing as DC is so gutless today maybe that's good.
> Frankly I as a black dude am insulted
Larp
All they had to do was give her white facepaint
Actress was great, but her acting wasn't the problem.
>no eyeliner
>not even black lipstick
Damn not even trying.
Black death is the least of the shows issues. The acring, the script, the cgi, the complete dullness of it all.
>spent thirty years fighting off adaptations to the work only to find yourself ten years to late to make a quality adaptation
I’m surprised he didn’t try to push this for HBO when GoT started
I want to see more Tweets of this guy. It's hilarious.
why is the guy who wrote sandman talking like a sixteen year old girl
End result of someone up to their eyeballs in counter culture during most of their youth and adult life.
It's what happens when people are terminally online.
Twitter rots your brain.
>I don't give a frick
>argues with people on Tw*tter almost daily about the things he "doesn't give a frick" about
What a chump.
>insults people
>immediately asks them to watch his show
Lol
Yeah, it's not the show, everyone else just has hang ups!!
Frick off
You can frick off too, Neil, you disingenuous business man.
You spent all that time looking for the right deal, not the right adaptation, you litigious little nerd. The conditions of the deal compensating you were right, not the writing, which comes way after. Frick you. Btw, black people can be goth too.
>perfect casting
>Neil Gaiman said it was accurate to the comics
>critics loved it
You explain yourself
In all fairness sandman looks super boring to watch
It's going to be another decade or more before you could afford to do an actual recreation of the panels. Sandman should be animated.
Mostly this. You could've fixed the casting and it would still be "meh" for most folk
>perfect casting
It’s like the comic became real.... whoa...
Fricker looks like Lord Farquad when he interrogated the Ginger Bread Man.
Is there a reason he looks so CGI there? Is it just the camera? Wouldn’t that shot just be him standing there with the tiny people being CGI for the illusion?
It didn't even need to cost a crazy amount. You can do camera tricks and then hide the flaws with cgi, instead of wasting hundreds of thousands.
THIS is the perfect example.
No style. No authenticity. No courage to do anything beyond a 'vanilla' taste of corporate tv series. It's a disgrace.
Casting a black actress in a role that has been originally portrayed as white and putting that on the front is just yet another abusive and racist attempt to use a POC as a shield for criticism when making a shit product.
No matter what the criticism is it's always hut down by crying 'racism' even if it was never part of the criticism.
I've seen YT projects with more heart and style done for less then the frickers that made this crap pay for dinner.
Fricking hell, this. I’m sick of minorities and “woke shit” being used as a defense to a shitty product, and I’m as lefty as they come. I hate that producers use it as a catch 22 where either the product does well and they suck themselves off about how progressive they are, or if the product tanks they cry “oh the chuds rallied and killed our baby, how tragic!”
Worst part is it works every fricking time. Can’t have a conversation about the new Saints Row being another dogshit mess of no QA and bugs because “get woke go broke”, and we can’t have a discussion about how cheap and boring Sandman looks because it immediately pans to “you’re just being racist because we cast a black death.”
I’ve never read sandman. I don’t read a lot of comics in general outside of things that catch my eye or interest, and the only thing that ever interested me about sandman was the art, those depressed, highly stylized and detailed black and white images. I’ve read plenty of mechanical takes on divinity, and it’s not a selling point for me, so I don’t give a shit how impressive Gaimin thinks his writing is or his lack of perspective because he’s a big fish in his small pond.
Yeah I wish it had bolder and more surreal visuals. This shit is a minor plot beat and images like this isn't ever the big events when they should be.
American Gods looked better.
Even if everyone who read sand man binged it twice, it wouldn’t have made a blip on Netflix’s radar. Asians don’t care about sandman and Americans wanted a cute goth death
This
I don't like this shit
I need my cute goth gf
On one hand I really like how they did Merv and the Corinthian, on the other hand the presentation is just so fricking dry and boring. I don't even hate blackwashed Death on principle, I just how how all the Endless are so uninspired looking because the actors probably didn't want to wear makeup. I mean the least they can do is make Dream's hair a little more messy and his eyes a little more otherworldly.
It costs way too fricking much per episode
Quality costs money.
>god tier casting
>amazing effects
It was required
Granted. But if it costs a lot, the money men are far less willing to hand over more unless it's a mega success. A "normal" success isn't good enough, it needs to be a flagship program. Everyone who had Netflix and wasn't on Cinemaphile liked Sandman. But nobody GOT Netflix to watch Sandman. There's your problem.
>Quality costs money
So it's the most successful money laundering scheme ever?
Jeez, I'm half expecting her to say I'm looking skinny and she's gonna cook me a big dinner.
Nobody has ever given a shit about Sandman, it's the book that gets tossed into lists of high concept capeshit that people then don't read.
Hullo sad person. It’s the biggest show in the world so clearly people DO care about it
>It’s the biggest show in the world
Um, sorry sweetie, but that's not THE Amazon EXCLUSIVE RINGS OF POWER™ WATCH IT YOU NEED TO WATCH IT, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WE SPENT OVER A BILLION FRICKING DOLLARS ON THIS STEAMING PILE OF SHIT YOU NEED TO WATCH IT.
This character actually isn’t bad. The previews made her costume look stupid but in context she doesn’t feel forced at all. I think it works.
For all of Sandman's faults, at least it wasn't Rings of Power.
>the biggest show in the world
>it failed
>getting dabbed on by Dougchads
Based Shimshamposter
It was disappointing to see Gaiman have a typical Twitter meltdown as though he were ducking Seth Rogan.
>high concept
That doesn't mean what you think it does
Pretty sure it means artsy crap which is why Sandman ends up on those lists.
>Perfect casting
Not even going to comment on the Death shit but "Johanna Constantine" bullshit was fricking stupid
It’s accurate to the comics. Johanna Constantine was in those.
>It’s accurate to the comics
Oh frick off. JOHN Constantine was involved in the bag of sand story. They also didn't have the fleshy walls in the show. Frick that
So they fixed the show to make it more representative for modern audiences. That’s a good thing.
(You)
Mmmmmm nice bait
>more representative for modern audiences
(hurr)
it has a bloated budget for a cheap-looking show
no one actually cares about sandman so normies aren't gonna be interested in it unless there's some serious hype
half the fans were divided because they miscast an iconic character
their only explanation was calling people racist and guilting the leftover fans to watch the serious
gaiman is a b***h
turns out you can't make a multimillion dollar project off spite
It is still weird that they never attempted to goth out Black Death, I wasn’t interested in the show in general but they really went with the most generic look for the most recognizable character in the franchise
I really have to wonder what they were thinking. How do you frick up Death that badly?
And rose, Miranda and unity.
The only raceswaps that didn’t matter were Kane and Abel
They don't give half a shit, anon. Writers rooms are not made up of fans. They're made up of people who failed to make it with their own original stories, and they hate the people who did.
In hindsight, nothing in this show is goth. Like none of the characters, none of the backgrounds and not even the music. It's just another generic mcu-esque Netflix show.
>an iconic character
You say this like they only did it to one. Half the cast was miscast. Lucifer, death, the entire kincaid bloodline.
Isn’t their a Lucifer show that’s supposed to use the same Lucifer? Was he miscast?
Yes Tom Ellis was woefully miscast. Tilda Swindon should have been Lucifer but they never would have paid the price.
While he definitely did not look like Lucifer he definitely was closer characterization wise
>no one actually cares about sandman
Incorrect. Mall goth/Hot Topic girls from the late '90s to mid-2000s care about it. But you can't broadcast TV shows through time so with them died Sandman, The Nightmare Before Christmas and Invader Zim.
It was too late to make a Sandman show you think?
I know that Invader Zim movie came and went without much fanfare.
A Sandman show/movie in like 2005-2010 would've been the best time for it. Yes, it's way too late for a Sandman adaptation.
Oh damn like right after the Keanu Constantine came out.
Oh that would have been great
And it probably would've been as bad of an adaptation as Constantine. Which is probably exactly what he didn't want.
>Constantine
It wasn't *bad* it was *adapted*
Theres a lot of deviation from the source material
Because tumblr is a shadow of its former self.
I just wanted to see Martian manhunter. They disappointed
I didn't watch the show because I had no interest in a watered down, generic looking version of Sandman, since a big appeal of the original was the distinctive art style. From the clips I saw, it just looks like any other TV show out there in terms of style and cinematography, so that bothered me.
Doing special effects to make it look like the comic wouldve been to expensive, small indie company plz understand
apparently fans watched it wrong
If Dream didn't look like Robert Pattinson at home, Death was a cute unnaturally white goth girl, and Lucifer wasn't ugly I would have watched it.
Just about none of those were true lol
Gaiman sold out and didn't defend his work, also they cast a terrible Lucifer lol
He’s been defending his work for months now
If people aren't binging it they aren't liking it lol
They aren't letting anything sink in lol
They just didn't like it
>Show dropped August 5th
>Data analysis finished on September 21st
>People had a month and a half to finish 11 episodes
Even if I take his theory at face value, it's probably fair to say that enthusiasm for this show isn't high among people watching it. It's not a priority.
He’s aware it’s people not wanting to watch it because it sucks deep down. He’s just in denial and needs the money to help settle his divorce
I’m pretty sure they announced they’re not getting divorced
Ah yes, the old corporate damage control of blaming the consumer, instead of the product.
I always thought that this just a kind wording of
>People watched the episode, than binge watched other stuff till they are through hot stuff than remember Sandman watch one episode than binge watch new hot stuff again.
Kinda like people put it on the backburner and watch it if they dont have anything to watch.
Way too much of this now and people really need to be more aware of it, how many of them have become useful idiots personally attacking critics of the product
The late 80s/early 90s storytelling doesn't lend itself to binging 10 episodes asap.
>episodic storytelling has people watching it at a more casual pace
Neil tried to spin it about people spending time thinking about the episode, resulting in less immediate binging the next episode.
I don't care. Adaptations are all trash and you are all trash people for supporting inferior genres' It's called cartoons and comics. Not comics and live adaptations.
casting
Honestly I already re read the comic and listened to the audio book. I saw no reason to watch it unless the effects were mind blowing and they weren't so nah nothing worth while in it to me.
I don't think any of those things you listed are true.
Look up rotten tomatoes. It’s one of the best shows ever. Critics know better than plebs like you
acting
Death was so shit in Cruella they cut out 90% of her role out of the script and she was Anita Darling, one of the main characters in the original. If that was how she acted in Cruella, I can't imagine how bad she was in Sandman.
She just just a glorified teaser
They made Anita black?
There is still a chance it gets renewed
The question is really why Sandman failed with casual audiences who did not have expectations of what the characters should be like. I think the answer is that the backlash from fans does sway casuals.
The early offense and race / gender / political-baiting strategy simply isn't working, and they need to accept it. Either take a conciliatory approach ("we understand some of you might be angry, but we did our best and hope you give our new interpretation a chance"), or gag the cast and staff. Better yet, just stop playing the virtue signaling game. It'll just piss off old fans, and never go far enough for the weirdos.
>I think the answer is that the backlash from fans does sway casuals
Somehow I doubt the bulk of the Netflix casual audience even knew Sandman was an adaptation of a comic, much less felt any ripple of outrage surrounding the casting.
>Somehow I doubt the bulk of the Netflix casual audience even knew Sandman
That's part of the problem. A small number of fans exert outsized influence, and they're the ones who actively evangelize for a show. If they refuse to support a show, then many causals won't here about it. If they outright talk shit about the show, then that's going to color the initial impressions of casuals.
>If they refuse to support a show, then many causals won't here about it
A large amount of people who stream avoid most parts of the media (or even entirely) though. And vocal internet communities do not always represent the majority opinion. If you took the word of this site alone, you'd think stuff like Rings of Power was universally despised
>A large amount of people who stream avoid most parts of the media (or even entirely) though.
I think you're misunderstanding how things spread through "osmosis." The entire idea behind memes is that they escape the confines of their origin and mutate. People don't need to have gotten the bad vibes about Sandman from first-hand sources.
The amazon rings show is a complete failure though.
House of the Dragon has utterly destroyed it in viewership AND critic reviews. Despite it costing a fricking billion dollars to make rings.
I like House of the Dragon more and agree that it's the better show, but that doesn't automatically make Rings a failure
>House of the Dragon has utterly destroyed it in viewership AND critic reviews
Currently the metacritic scores are pretty close(71 vs 69). Not sure about viewship numbers though, can't find any hard comparisons for those
I was expecting rings to be utter shit due to all the anti-hype it was getting around here, but I actually think it’s good. The worst part about it is the forced romance subplot, but the diversity in cast doesn’t even register as an issue in that world.
Feels like a sarcastic post given that it didn't excel in any of those.
Sandman failed because most sandman fans dont care about the actual story and only want to frick Death.
And that includes female sandman fans.
Death is one of those characters I just can’t look at in a sexual way.
>number one show in the world
why did Gayman try to make this claim? it's such a bad lie.
What is the most watched show in the world then??
Head and Shoulders
>Head and Shoulders
what
Because nobody outside of the comics scene cares for Sandman? People want capeshit not 90ties goths talking about dreams.
because it was too expensive to make in a time netflix has no money
story is boring as hell
characters are uninteresting
dream looks like a twilight character
everyone is gay
forced diversity
>perfect casting
none of the actors knew how to do an american accent. it was an embarrassment.
>tfw it's taking so long because netflix is working on a 10-year deal to make this the BIGGEST series with a $50b budget for 50 seasons, which will premiere in all streaming services + theaters while making 10000% profits.
>Neil Gaiman said it was accurate to the comics
Lmao but also frick you
Go woke go broke my homie
Just a rough edit out of curiosity. Wondering what if they had used a wig and some filters.
Original.
>excellent acting
Exceptionally weak bait
>didn't read comic
>went into the show expecting death to be a main character throughout the series
>shows up for an episode, makes an appearance on another, and then fricks off for the rest of the show