Why did show start diminishing Finn's abilities when in early episodes he was shown to be strong and competent.
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Why did show start diminishing Finn's abilities when in early episodes he was shown to be strong and competent.
Can't have him outshining lesbians
Fpbp
Spbp
Korra was a mistake.
Adam Muto became the showrunner
Muto was responsible for boarding sections that Pen thought made Finn look too powerful, but were cool enough that he left them in, like the fights in Morituri te Salutamus and Dad's Dungeon. Pen never intended for Finn to be any more powerful than a normal teenage boy. The whole point of the season 1 dungeon episode was to show how easily Finn got bodied without Jake around. Finn is just a normal, regular human, and expecting him to be able to take on vampires or eldritch gods in a fair fight is silly. The Lich was just a jobber that was able to be defeated with magic each time. He's a hero in spite of those limitations though, which is what makes him a badass.
The arm was used as a visual metaphor for Finn's emotional state. He was able to project an arm through his anger alone in The Tower episode. It should've been extended out more, but there's nothing wrong with how he got it back in Breezy. The arm itself isn't what was important and focusing on that element misses the point completely.
>But it's a metaphor
And it's a shit metaphor. People obviously are gonna see through it from the physical perspective first and foremost because it's a fricking IRL DISABILITY, if you undo it in only 4 episodes through the power of bad sexual allegories then people will never take it seriously again which it's what happened when he lost it the 2nd time
>He's a hero in spite of those limitations though, which is what makes him a badass.
I thought his good nature was also a major factor in why early Finn was so likable. Like when he was instructed to kill an ant and he refused to do it because the ant wasn't sufficiently evil.
Yes but then he manipulated his girlfriend into fighting the ice king because it gave him a boner so we know he is thoroughly rotten, irredeemable and thankfully cancelled
It's okay though, dreaming of her gave him wet dreams. That justifies his actions... kinda... sorta... h-he saw Cosmic Owl, okay!
To attempt a charitable answer, because he was growing more doubtful about the world and himself so his confidence wavered. Also he lost an arm which will throw off anyone's physical capabilities
I think it's mostly that the writers just didn't like him and wanted him to suck though
It seems stupid he couldn't couldn't find some magic spell or macguffin to heal it. I thought he did heal it with honey? What happened to it again?
It was some kind of multiversal constant thing where all Finns are destined to lose an arm.
>macguffin
Technically he still had the magic tears, right?
>heal it with honey
Not really, it was just lazy artists who didn't want to draw his cursed plant arm differently, because reasons. Said cursed arm combined with dead Finn sword and created Fern soon after he jobbed to random b***h princess.
>Finn as a creep
It never made any sense, as if Bonnie couldn't introduce him to some candy brothel or robo wife. It was just writers needlessly shitting on him.
Finn becoming a creep like the Ice King does kind of make sense. Sometimes you become what you hate.
Maybe, but the show did a shit job of showing that development. He was just a creep all of a sudden.
He gradually became a creep after PB re-aged herself in Too Young, with his teenage awkwardness towards PB reaching it’s height in Incendium and later with Flame Princess in season 5. The problem was that Finn went for women that were either extremely difficult to have or maintain. PB’s cold nature and old age as well FP’s volatile temper and trust issues made it easy for Finn to lose them and consequently become a “creep” once they made it clear that they wouldn’t return his feelings.
>creep after PB re-aged herself
b***h literally started the whole romance and then turned him down pretty much randomly, and somehow he was at fault for having feelings? Show at that point didn't criticise Finn for anything.
>YES, abuser.
>exhibit A: Frost & Fire
Muto's fanfiction
an abuser and a womanizer
>exhibit B: Breezy
Literally some storyboarder telling his life story about getting molested by some fat b***h on party, might as well be non canon.
>on party
at a*
>westernized quasishounen power fantasy protagonist
That was never a case. Finn wasn't the strongest, the smartest, most competent or the swiftest. He was great at coming up with solutions on a fly and was more of a "batman" equivalent at best. He constantly made mistakes but always quickly learned from them. He was a hero because of his intentions, empathy and determination. That is until he was "subverted".
>on party
>at a*
Are you seriously correcting someone when you wrote "you're" instead of "your" here?
>You in contrast decided to be direct with you're mannerisms.
Imagine being so full of yourself in fricking Cinemaphile, are you one of the writers? Would make sense, you homies to have nothing to do right now after all
That second post wasn't even mine. And about "breezy", this isn't speculation, that was stated by the crew themselves. Season 6 is full of very personal stories that only use Finn as a mouthpiece.
>Imagine being so full of yourself in fricking Cinemaphile, are you one of the writers?
I'm starting to suspect this, daily reminder that Pen, Sugar and the rest of the crew used to lurk and even post on Cinemaphile in the early seasons and this board is known for by being used by people in the industry
>b***h literally started the whole romance and then turned him down pretty much randomly
Not random. She did it on purpose. Finn was a useful tool for her. The Makima comparison is apt.
I meant that she turned him down after growing up again which wasn't her plan from the get go. So the feelings, definitely for more than a while, were genuine. But the messy retcons just made her into even worse person than she started as.
Of course, this is the place where Fionna and Cake were created after all.
>some storyboarder telling his life story about getting molested by some fat b***h on party
Please name this quote on quote "some storyboarder" eitherwise it's just rumors and an excuse to out a womans value/desirability in relation to whether or not she is plus sized. I'm not going to dispute your opinion on the matter if you're unwilling to change your mind though.
Hence why I used the prefix quasi when describing Adventure Time's potential trajectory towards a shounenesque IP.
>minor spelling mistake therefore you're invalid
I accidentally omitt words due to my ADHD but people usually are still able to understand what I'm saying. It's only when they desperately need a straw to grasp at do they bring it up, sssooooooo...
>Please name this quote on quote "some storyboarder"
it's Jesse Moynihan who used to post here and was popular up until he boarded "Breezy", which he said was very personal for him. being taken advantage of by an IRL Lumpy Space Princess is probably a baseless theory tho.
Now I feel bad about the condensing tone I used, I was anticipating something more hostile as these threads typically go.
Thank-you; much obliged.
So if someone finally got with the girl they've been pining for for forever and then she just arbitrarily breaks up with them because “they’re too young” despite the fact that she was still the same age as she was before only her body and mind are altered. And then she wants to pretend like it was nothing, they’re a creep for having a hard time processing it and moving on?
The problem is that Finn didn’t at least wait until he was an adult to start flirting with PB. Even after PB said he was too young, he didn’t take the hint and kept on outwardly crushing on her despite his understanding of the age difference.
Again the problem is the writing. You don't love bomb someone and then act like nothing happened later in the same day. And PB based on how she acted before shouldn't have been as detached and cold with Finn as she was.
Yeah if she really was interested she should have explained how things had changed and that while she still cared about him and felt the same their situation made it impossible at the moment and then end it with “Finn I want you to be happy and live your life not chasing after something that can’t be. But when the time comes and if you still feel the same just know that I’ll be there… hero”, Or something like that.
Reminds me a lot of how the show initially portrayed Jake wanting to be a responsible father as smothering his kids, especially since they're matured enough to be 100% fine without him, but then spent the rest of the show basically treating him like a deadbeat dad. The writers really seem to love pretending that all the plot convenient shit, ex. forcibly re-aging PB so she can get her title back or Finn having romantic misunderstandings cause he's an immature kid, are the kinds of things the protagonists have to live with the consequences of while everyone else can truck along just fine continuing to be jackasses.
Yeah Ocarina just felt really weird, like if the pups matured that fast then they would have saw or at least heard about Jake busting his ass to make sure they were taken care of. Not to mention why did Marcy just sell him the treehouse?
>Marcy just sell him the treehouse?
Because NuMarceline's only personality trait was to be in love with bubblegum while at best tolerating everyone else, especially the guy that went back to hell to save her life, the one she admired before so much.
>The problem was that Finn went for women that were either extremely difficult to have or maintain.
The problem was the writers period
Yes, because having a frickdoll makes one less of a creep.
The writers focused on Finn as a creep, and creeps shouldn't be competent or else they become villains.
Now we're talkin
i genuinely think its cause the writers just didn't like him that much, seasons 5 and 6 especially seem to make finn very incompetent like every episode, it is a bit annoying. this is coming from someone who likes bubbline!
BRO!!! HE'S LITERALLY 5 YEARS OLD!! OMG!!!
Lazy writing. Dumb and incompetent characters are easier to write as funny.
>Lazy writing
As if. In many aspects it was meticulously cruel. Like that ending montage that wastes time and specifically shows you some random characters getting happily together, but not Finn, he will be sad and alone his entire life after his only friend croaks.
Well no he maybe had Huntress Wizard, possibly, we think ... they didn't really bother to let us know
>Lazy writing
Listen, I know half of Cinemaphile wanted Finn to be this westernized quasishounen power fantasy protagonist whom saves the day and gets the girl (as if we haven't seen that cliché arch half a myriad times over and over). However it would be dishonest to simply slander direction the show went as “lazy writing”. As the show aged it got more mature and philosophical which is preeminently kino amongst other contemporary cartoons.
The Adventure Time writing team gets a lot of flack for doing something experimental such as Cookie Princesses depression & possibly trans allegory, Finn's gradual maturation from an abuser and womanizer, Simon's loss of sanity & very on the nose dementia allegory (most children's show, hell not even Steven Universe would have the balls to explore that shit) and the Lich's symbolic representation of the inevitability of death.
It may not be the show (You) wanted and it sure as hell didn't start as the masterpiece it became, but it couldn't have risen to it's merits had it been written by lesser writers.
Also before you say anything, NO brown girl coombait and NO, capeshit from mid 2000s don't even hold a candle to Adventure Time. (we both know that's the only shows Cinemaphile likes)
>Finn's gradual maturation from an abuser and womanizer
>Abuser
Finn was a literal child, go frick yourself
YES, abuser.
exhibit A: Frost & Fire
>wasnt an abuser and a womanizer
exhibit B: Breezy
>go frick yourself
stay classy Cinemaphile please never change, reddit would be passive-aggressive with their troony jannies locking threads. You in contrast decided to be direct with you're mannerisms.
Have a swell day, I think you'll need it.
finn wasnt an abuser and a womanizer, he was an exploited child soldier.
>masterpiece
Adventure time is the definition of lazy writing and bad drama
>Oh no!, Finn lost his arm by trying to get with his father, I wonder what gonna happen next
>nvm, it's back in just 4 eps in lol lmao
>no wait! It's gone now for good, please keep watching!!! (Nobody fricking cares by then and didn't have the same emotional weight)
Frick off with your bs
You know what would be great? Lets make Finn someone who would manipulate his girlfriend into harm! Everyone will love that!
Oh no our ratings are dropping hard.
Please do the world a favor and jump feet first into a wood chipper.
>Listen, I know half of Cinemaphile wanted Finn to be this westernized quasishounen power fantasy protagonist
Very true. Frick shonenshitters and finncels (same thing really).
It's annoys me when people say the show got lazy, when it pushed the boundaries of what a cartoon on mainstream tv could be. Coasting along with the same vibe as season 1 would've been the easy thing to do. Even if you fricking despised what the show became, at least they didn't play it safe which warrants respect in its own right.
>Finn's gradual maturation from an abuser and womanizer
He acted like an ass, but it's much too harsh to call him an abuser. He was a kid, and it was one incident. He was never a womanizer, he was upfront with all those ladies he smooched in Breezy.
Please have a nice day you moronic yurihomosexual redditor.
Chainsaw man.
I wonder if Makima was a lesbian would they handwave all of her crimes like they did with PB.
In the West yes, in japan no they'd still kill her.
Character assassination is one thing, but saying his abilities were diminished is exaggerating. Grass Sword Finn was pretty busted
steven universe got popular
Finncels remain the lowest form of life
adventure time 😀
idk if i wanted finn to be a shonen protagonist but the first few seasons had the best tone imo
>White male with blonde hair
I can imagine the meltdown israelite had after taking over the show and how he was rubbing his hands together in anticipation to write worst dogshit ever imaginable because of his insecurities
Adam muto is a shit writer and ruined Finn and Jake. It wasn’t natural progression of Finn being a shitty person as it happened on a flip of a dime and was literally enabled by Jake. Honeslty PB becoming shittier felt more natural because it was the show showing the true version of her and her real motives. The cooler episode for pb was like the fire and ice episode, both were the absolute worst for each character. Bubbleline was good however and felt realistic.
>Bubbleline was good
You lost me. What can someone even like about it other than superficial aesthetics? What was realistic about it? It was the worst written relationship in the show and was antithetical to both characters, even required complete reshaping of one. It was comically forced and seemed more like a statement than anything that could naturally occur. I honestly see it as a parasite that was slowly killing the series from within, for many reasons.
I obviously exaggerated the details a bit
>Moynihan describedBreezyas “a deeply personal episode, based on things that have happened to me in my life. I hope people find transcendence and beauty in it.”
And I don't even hate the episode by itself, except for the hand regrowth, it was well made, but it simply was barely about Finn the character.
My sister is a lesbian and growing up it was interesting to see how she would mirror marcaline and her relationship with bubble gum. One could say I could relate to how Finn was just a stupid boy while marcaline had big girl problems to deal with. Kys with the
>it came from nowhere and had no legs to stand on.
It was built up more then huntress wizard and Finn or built up more then fricking orgalorg. It was built up since season 3, if you don’t want to acknowledge that, then that’s not my problem. However, I will agree that the show suffered from it as they stopped focusing on giving Finn good character moments and as mentioned before, their whole relationship might arguably be the most built up thing in adventure time. Which as I’m typing that is kind of frustrating as the litch and orgalorg was a cool concept that didn’t have as much build up or episodes. I think the only thing that comes close is Finn’s parents
Why would you insult your sister like that?
>Adventure Time Studios, 3:30 AM
>A dark corner
>Pendleton Ward is scribbling away
>He has finished, at long last, the full story for the Adventure Time movie
>It's not perfect, nothing ever is, but it's as close to the memories of his tabletop games and comic books that motivated him to make that fateful pilot episode years ago
>The story is simple enough, Finn fights the Ice King to save Peebles, and then contends with the Lich. The structure is effective, but it's in the humor where the film truly shines
>Suddenly, the door to Pen's office bursts open
>He is blinded as light fills the room
>Jesse Moynihan, Steve Little, Somvilay Xayaphone, and even Rebecca Sugar walk into the office
>Pen has not heard from them in months
>He hasn't seen Rebecca for years
>"W-what's up, guys?", he asks, a mix of fear and hope in his voice
>"We heard you finished the movie, Pen.", Little says, an eerie smile on his face
>"We wanted to offer feedback.", Moynihan chips in
>Ward clenches his teeth. "There's- there's no need for that, guys."
>"Oh, I insist.", Jesse says, and snatches the 500 storyboards from Pen's hand as he takes out a bright red sharpie.
>"This is no good at all.", Xayaphone says, as he crosses off a picture of the Gumball Guardians and replaces them with Betty.
>"This plot point is too direct. You need to be more experimental and philisophical with your ending.", Moynihan mutters as he tears the final story board of Finn killing the Lich into pieces.
>"I like this panel.", Rebecca Sugar says, as she holds up a picture of Finn kissing Princess Bubblegum as Marceline cheers them all.
>"But it would work even better if you switched Finn with Marceline, don't you agree?"
>"N-no I- I don't agr-" Pen starts to mutter.
>He is met not with glares, but looks of incredulity.
>"Y-yes, you're right.", Pen says
>"I- I just wanted an Adventure, but maybe... maybe that's not what kids want. Go ahead and make the changes.
>AND YOU COULD HAVE IT ALL
>MY EMPIRE OF DIRT
This bummed me out, all I ever wanted was for Finn to finish off the Lich in the finale ever since I was a little kid. They couldn't even let it happen in his own special.
Why did the show cuck Finn with a half baked Cinnamon Roll?
someone post the picture of the storyboarder's tweet about how his dad told him to repent after he said that Finn deserves to suffer
No idea, but the seethe it generates is funnie asf
Imagine unironically getting cucked by a moronic pastry XD
Stealth Finn self inserting harem thread.
>not wanting protagonist to get constantly shit on for no reason is self-inserting
Post nose
>wanting a harem means the Mc is a cool well written character
Post height fricking manlet. Go spam dipper threads.
The assassination of Finn's character and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race
It's consequences have just been that CN made less money and the show is not remembered nearly as fondly as it could have been
The same pattern as Game of Thrones
I don't even watch this show but seeing how it was hijacked made me realize the inherent evil of lesbians.
Hey at least you learned a valuable lesson that can be applied in real life
I don't have a problem with Finn doing something terrible to ruin his first relationship and result in character growth but Frost and Fire is just stupid and there's no getting around that.
The only way people ever try to defend it is by saying "Yeah but Finn's just a stupid kid teenagers make mistakes" which is obviously moronic because
>Finn is not a normal teenager he's a literal knight with the moral fiber of a superhero
>it's not even "realistic" because not every teenage boy is an butthole to their girlfriends, and if any teenager is undeserving of it then it's Finn The Fricking Human
People also try to link it to how Finn messed around with the dolls' lives in All the Little People which is also stupid because they were fricking toys dude it's debatable and ambiguous if they were alive at all, AND Finn learned the lesson in that episode not to frick with people to satisfy his "little Finn" but Frost and Fire gleefully demonstrates Finn learned frick all.
Red Throne is a worse episode though.
>Finn learned the lesson in that episode not to frick with people to satisfy his "little Finn" but Frost and Fire gleefully demonstrates Finn learned frick all
I know this thread has already mentioned the suboptimal writing prowess but why are the writers the way they are?
Like honestly… this shit seems like basic story archs and the seemingly aren't capable of properly concluding them.
Probably poor communication between them and a desire to one-up each other and undo one another's bright ideas
He was sabotaged by the Cosmic Owl, so it wasn’t even his fault.
if Finn just fricked one of the hotter princesses everything over the course of this show would have improved drastically
all Jake and PB had to do was give this blue bawd 50 OooBucks to show Finn her arse and the rest is history
I mean do they even really need to pay them? Most of the princesses have been shown to be attracted to Finn in some way. I’m pretty sure if Jake and PB just brought it up casually they would probably fight to see who’d get the honor.
The problem is that Finn didn’t want any of the easy princesses, he went after the hardest ones to have. Must be because he likes a good challenge.
Why are finncels such fatherless homosexuals?
The show ended 5 years ago, move the frick on.
You know why.
>Must be because he likes a good challenge
That wasn't the case for Finn before the forced breakup with FP, he wasn't bubblegum's dog, often disagreed with her, for better or worse, and was attracted to other women. He just knew PB the best and the longest. And even his late simping phase wasn't really resolved with any fanfare, Muto simply got bored of it over time so Finn stopped it.
Adventure time is like the cartoon equivalent of mass effect 3
I will always be mad about this shit
go back to your isekai haremshit chud
>isekai haremshit chud
Bro fr just described 80% of Adventure Time
Finny is such a winny