Why didn't Disney Channel (and Disney XD) embrace TV PG cartoons like Cartoon Network did?
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Why didn't Disney Channel (and Disney XD) embrace TV PG cartoons like Cartoon Network did?
The Disney Channel is for 9-year old girls.
CN stopped handing out TV-PG to every new show like 4 years after they started doing that
I take it MAD CN was too edgy for them?
Remember when we thought early 2010s TV-PG era CN was the start of a new era of edgier envelope pushing animation, but it ended up being just a fluke resulting in CN doing a complete 180 and doubling down on infantilized shit content instead until we got shit like cartoonito
I hate the absolute let down the second half of the 2010s turned out to be
Problem Solverz was too soulful for mainstream audiences to handle.
Ill be honest, id rather take something like problem solverz or uncle grandpa then shit like apple and onion or fricking craig of the creek
The former shows actually have shit that happens in them, wheras shit like Craig of the Creek is just all the boring parts of SU put into a single show.
Exactly, COTC is just all the awful parts of the townie episodes enlarged to be its own series. How that shit has managed to get 6 seasons is beyond me
I agree, but again it proved that american animation is cucked by the "its for kids" mindset so while the early 2010s were surprisingly edgy everything afterwards had to become more baseline and sanitized for whatever reason, similarly what happened to the internet as well
This. I really liked how willing Cartoon Network was in the early 2010’s to experiment and just throw shit at the wall to see what sticks.
It was an especially ballsy move for them to think Problem Solverz was "too cute" for [as]
TV-PG CN was bordering on what I've been calling for since the early 2000s: something analogous to a Shonen demographic in America (aimed at 11-16 year olds)
We were almost there with Young Justice, Generator Rex, Ben 10: Ultimate Alien, Symbionic Titan, and Regular Show. If there had just been a second wave that pushed further still, touching the same demographic target as old-school Simpsons and Family Guy while keeping the energetic artstyle and animation of CN's usual fare, we might have really had something
The writing was on the wall when they screwed over Motor City and the Tron show
>implying shonenshit isn't primarily aimed at 7-12 year olds
What about Adventure Time? That got a huge middle school audience
let's be real for a moment, it's not the network's fault that a lot of these edgier creators couldn't handle running a series on their own. Almost every single show runner left on their own accord or because the network was forced to kick them out.
What are you talking about? The only example i can think of was pen ward leaving.
I mean, Robotomy walked so Superjail could run.
you fricking dumbass who can't get your timelines right. The other way around.
Both shows felt extremely similar to each other, so it was a win/win either way.
Get your timelines right you tard, otherwise shut up
Disney xd had gross out and for boys thing going for it. CN definitely was thr most edgy as having serious or more mature tones some pretty suprising underwear moments and adult jokes, guns and violence even showing blood and even regular show having swear words that were changed. Somw like the looney tunes show the tone and humor just seems like no one under 13 would understand it right
Is that thing on the right meant to be a Summer Camp Island parody? Curious when this was drawn, or if Gemmill ever got in any hot water for it. He's always worked on cartoonier shows so it's fun seeing him mock these other shows sometimes.
Disney's generally leans pretty hard into the Family Friendly(tm) aspect when it comes to TV animation. They have a stronger brand name than CN ever did, and anything that gets the Moral Panic on any one part of their operations may impact their wider brand as a whole.
I personally reckon that's bollocks, but that's what they were angling for.
Because disney is notorious for being saccharine and sanitized. This is the same company that kvetched over amphibia marcy stabbing scene and canceled the owl house for not being "on brand enough" IE: not being sanitized and babyish enough for them. They would never allow the edgy stuff that CN had in the early 2010s on disney channel unfortunately
it's a brand recognition deal. They know that families will pick them for their consistency. Parents wont be worried about Disney airing content that might cause their children exercise their critical thinking skills.
CN's slate of TV-PG shows was to make up lost ground for the failure of CN Real. Everything after Steven Universe was a return to regular form.
Nah shit like we bare bears and the like was even more infantilized then ore CN real cartoon network. CN lost its edge by that point that craig of the creek and summer camp island aired
>We're going to talk about friendship, and FEELINGS!
>hehe.
You have no idea how cathartic this was seeing this scene on here
I know, right? It genuinely made people seethe.
A shame it was part of The Patrick Show, something most Cinemaphilemrades already wrote off.
Bubble Bass made people appreciate it more, so there's that.
Patrick star show is great and im tired of pretending that its not
The issue with adult animation in the West (and Japan too, to a lesser extent) is that animation is inherently viewed as children's media, so when you are making something that isn't explicitly G-rated or aiming above TV-Y7, you run into the issue of audience alienation. It used to be that adults didn't want to waste their time watching something they thought was kiddy tripe and were self aware about this, so a cartoon that was actually subtle, mature, and didn't overexaggerate would quickly lose an adult audience who saw illustrations and could not dissociate colorful images from "kid show."
Especially when you're 14 years old, you're all about shedding baby shit and being grown up (at least back in my day). So you had to make it clear and obvious that an adult cartoon wasn't supposed to be for kids, which means excessive swearing, sex jokes, scat humor, racist humor, etc. Creators also get paranoid about their show being seen as too kiddy. It's only been in the past 5 or 10 years that enough adults regularly watch cartoons that it's even remotely possible to try for a more subtle PG/PG-13 style like with Infinity Train, but there's still way too much momentum to keep things the way they were
you have disney to blame for that mind set. Walt's strategy to aggressively go for the kids was the foundation for this mindset.
>It's only been in the past 5 or 10 years that enough adults regularly watch cartoons that it's even remotely possible to try for a more subtle PG/PG-13 style like with Infinity Train,
And look how that worked out.
I miss TV-PG programming animated cartoons so much, what the hell happened to cable? why did everyone let the current state of things occur? they even shoved a superman cartoon for kids on AS, that's pathetic.
Because the people in charge of CN now are pussy soccer moms who want to keep it castrated and sanitized. Thats why theres only been lifeless limp wristed soi toons on it for the better half of a decade now
I fricking hate that man so much its cathartic in a way seeing his company get ruined by women
I went to this seminar a few months back about popular culture and it was really fun hearing these disney scholars just have constant talks on how shit the company is.
> and it was really fun hearing these disney scholars just have constant talks on how shit the company is.
Care to give some highlights?
The most common thing I got from the presenters were just how hard they had to work to get sources because the disney company will straight refuse to give people access to their archives if they don't 100% write something that makes them look good.
Even just putting the words Disney or Mickey Mouse in their title will incur the wrath of the lawyers.
I'm also exaggerating the hate the presenters had for the company. Most of the hate was thrown in as side comments or when they got off stage and just talked with the crowd.
Most of the talks focused on the parks and were retrospectives on their failures or the culture around the park. One group looked at the failure of that starwars hotel and how it was mostly the repeat customer's fault for ruining the place.
Another looked at how disney manages to immerses people to become a part of the park and sort of how that immersion breaks when you're not really their target audience.
One looked at the women who helped develop the parks and hotels and sort of how they aren't recognized for their work.
There were also a bunch of other talks that I missed because these were all happening at the same time so you had to pick and choose.
Even if TV-PG animated shows were still being made you fricks would still be sitting here complaining that it's not tailored to your tastes. Why not discuss how you'd improve some of these shows you can't stand in their current form? Give yourself a better idea of what you actually want to see.
Im not like one of these other Cinemaphilentrarians who hates anything new, the issue i have is that just about every new show within the past few years that i liked has gotten cancelled
That was when CN was at its peak imo
> One group looked at the failure of that starwars hotel and how it was mostly the repeat customer's fault for ruining the place.
Oh that sounded like it couldve been interesting. How were repeat customers an issue with that?
>Another looked at how disney manages to immerses people to become a part of the park and sort of how that immersion breaks when you're not really their target audience.
You mean people who arent childless millennial disney fan girls? Pic related
Yes it is lol
Repeat customers were essentially speed running the entire experience. There was no way to separate first timers from the repeats as the entire point of the place was to be immersive as frick. So you'd have these starwars autists show up for their 8th time that year having the entire script memorized. So you're gonna have a first timer lose out on a cool experience because these rich losers wanted to play pretend rebel or empire soldier just to flex I guess. Even fricking weirder are some of these repeats were using the place as some sort of parasocial friendship experience. They would either pick an actor or character and trauma dump or become an emotional parasite for their entire duration of the stay.
For the immersion talk it was more than just disney fan girls. It was like this complex thing on how the park is designed for this "average" customer. If you're a cripple the park will accommodate and try to make you happy as everyone else, but the immersion gets pulled away because you're reminded that this is still an amusement park. Same deal with people of different religious, political, cultural beliefs.
For example: The pride flag. Some people will be like wow thanks for reinforcing my belief, but at the same time will be reminded that they're just being marketed to. Same deal with those who hate gays. They'll be like "oh the company is enforcing the gay agenda."
The conference was really interesting just because of how spread out these topics were. Not just disney shit, but like animation, horror movies, dnd, music, video games, anything pop culture related.
> Even fricking weirder are some of these repeats were using the place as some sort of parasocial friendship experience. They would either pick an actor or character and trauma dump or become an emotional parasite for their entire duration of the stay.
What the frick is actually wrong with these gays that they feel the need to just trauma dump to people in twilek costumes i cannot imagine being that pathetic
>So you'd have these starwars autists show up for their 8th time that year having the entire script memorized. So you're gonna have a first timer lose out on a cool experience because these rich losers wanted to play pretend rebel or empire soldier just to flex I guess.
I don't understand, so the repeat customers were like reciting the script or something?
No they knew what the event was going to be about/happening which usually required some sort of puzzle solving so these guys would just beeline to the answer. Sometimes they would be able to hog time with the characters because of this.
Because Mike Lazzo proved to Turner that there is an adult audience that loves cartoons.
>Mike Lazzo proved to Turner
The entire reason why Cartoon Network was created in the first place was BECAUSE half of the people who tuned in to watch cartoons on TNT and TBS were adults.
Really? That's cool. I thought it was because Turner owned HB & MGM's entire back catalog and wanted a place to show them. Like how TCM starts as a place to show all of the old movies that he owned. If it was seriously because they realized there was an untapped adult market for cartoons and that's what leads to airing Space Ghost Coast 2 Coast which leads to Adult Swim then bravo, Turner. You earned those billions.
>If it was seriously because they realized there was an untapped adult market for cartoons and that's what leads to airing Space Ghost Coast 2 Coast which leads to Adult Swim then bravo, Turner. You earned those billions.
Pretty much, yes. This is the original pitch for CN.
They had their grip on and leaned heavily into the sanitary image that appealed to the religious conservative parents of the 90s that didn't allow their kids to watch CN and Nickelodeon because they saw part of cow and chicken or ren and stimpy once and that was enough.
As this demograph died out with the new 00s parents, Disney channel kind of defaulted to live action and spamming KP, P&F, and now more recently GF. They've been known for bad decisions like killing a popular show like WoY by sending it to DXD so they could give it's timeslot to a live action show they were trying to boost ratings for, or for not giving GF more episodes before the finale and meddling with Svtfoe in numerous ways that degraded the show. Essentially they're stuck as they are because they've screwed up too many times to have never attracted a committed animation following like how Nick has the nostalgics and CN has AS fans and animation otakus.
Because Disney's always been lame and sanitized. The closest they got to their own Toonami was Jetix, which was Y7 stuff and didn't have its own equivalent to Toonami's Midnight Run. Disney much prefers the family friendly brand image no matter how hard they pretend they're shedding it.
Why do they stubbornly refuse to be edgy at all? Is it because a bunch of the execs are those "le wholesome reddit chungus" typa gays?
All western "kids" cartoons are lame and sanitized, although cartoons from some European countries may be slightly less sanitized than American cartoons..
>All western "kids" cartoons are lame and sanitized
And Disney's the most lame and sanitized of them all
Even things like Invader Zim or Megas XLR would not exist under them
>CN kids shows have the same rating as The Simpsons
What did they mean by this?
That The Simpsons is a kids show.