Why do Alan Moore and Michael Moorcock hate Grant Morrison so much?

Why do Alan Moore and Michael Moorwiener hate Grant Morrison so much? They both did a lot of pastiches and works based on other artists work in their careers, but Morrison does it to them and they both hate him for it

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  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Have you never met a nerd? 90% of being a nerd is getting angry at people for doing the things they themselves do. Et aliud cum id faciam would be the nerds school motto.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      you've never met a nerd
      Ignorantia non excusat

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        You've never been on the Internet.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          i'm here right now.

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Moore realized he wasted his writing career on children's books while Morrison is seemingly content with writing capeshit and outright adores it. That's why he hates him.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      If he is content why did he lose his hair

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Holy frick! Bald bros, our response?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          We blind all of the hair havers with our shiny bald heads.
          BALDHEADS ASSEMBLE!

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Just thankful I'm not from whatever dumbass country that watches that horse shit

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >ESL
          OH NO NO NO NO NO

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        How does someone even respond to this without sounding mad?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          They both lost being involved in a sport for flailing homosexuals that's excelled at by children.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Mourinho
        Of course.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Mourinho is a flop and known for having bad relationships with players while guardiola has won 5 leagues consecutively so history proved him wrong

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Morrison is seemingly content with writing capeshit and outright adores it.

      No he doesn't. Read his editorials in the 90's about how much he hates capeshit and that Vertigo was the way of the future. Then in the early 00's he was all about Manga. Then he hit middle age, realized he needed to make money and suddenly he loved capeshit again in time to blackmail DC into letting him create Damien/Robin which guarantees him a small participation check for the rest of his life.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Morrison made a name for himself in the mainstream in the late 90s with JLA, then he went to Marvel to do X-Men because he was upset that DC sold him out to WB so they could rip off The Invisibles with The Matrix without paying him and also wouldn't let him on Superman because they had a "No A-list writers on the Batman and Superman ongoings" policy at the time. Then he left Marvel because DC offered him an exclusive sweetheart deal that let him do anything he wanted. And what he wanted to do was a bit of We3, Seaguy, and Vimanarama for Vertigo to start things off followed by Seven Soldiers, Batman, All Star Superman, 52, Final Crisis, and so on.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Read his editorials in the 90's about how much he hates capeshit and that Vertigo was the way of the future

          Anon, Morrison wrote SuperGods. It's not like DC forced Morrison to do that.

          Read his capeshit bashing Vertigo stuff if you can ever take the wieners out of your mouths.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            what specifically are you referring to

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Seaguy Eternal never ever

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I remember Seaguy being boring.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Read his editorials in the 90's about how much he hates capeshit and that Vertigo was the way of the future

        Anon, Morrison wrote SuperGods. It's not like DC forced Morrison to do that.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          He also campaigned to be able to do Superhero cape stuff in 2000ad with Zenith way back in the day, when nobody else really wanted to and the comic still mostly avoids that sort of thing.

          I didn't know Moorwiener cared, but Allen hates him because Morrison talked shit about him for attention in the old days. He also thinks Morrison ripped him off but I'm not sure on what specifically. I think I heard McCarthy and Milligan dislike him for ripping off Paradax with Zenith. I haven't read either no idea how similar they are besides the jacket.

          Brendan McCarthy went into a bit more detail with Paradax here
          https://www.comicsbeat.com/mad-mental-crazy-the-true-life-of-the-fabulous-zenith-part-2/#comment-569818

          In the same post Milligan also claims he had an important unacknowledged role in Doom Patrol, coming up with Danny the Street among other things.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Then in the early 00's he was all about Manga
        At least he aknowledged that manga was absolutely taking over the industry unlike the other writers that pretend anyone still read Marvel nowadays

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >implying capeshit isn't children books.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Anon, I don't think that was implied at all.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      spbp

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It's wrong.

  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I was going to say it's a generational thing but wtf they're only 6 years apart in age. Morrison has aged really fricking well, damn.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's the lack of hair that keeps him looking relatively more stable

  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    morrison is pretty whacky but he's also a plagiarist and mostly derivative when he's not ripping other comic artists like Bryon Talbot off. He's a hypocrite (for example, stirring shit up claiming that Alan Moore writes too much about rape while also replicating fricking 100 days of Sodom for Invisibles. I can't for the life of me think of a single Morrison comic that isn't neck deep in rape) and often an idiot (his nonsense about who puts air in the batmobile's tires, he says lots of dumb shit without thinking) as well as shock value dependent. Unlike Mark Millar who is a million times worse, so obsessed with shocking audiences he makes no fricking sense (bombs in wombs, whatever) Morrison gets away with his stupidity for focusing on surreal weirdness and sci-fi chaos magick nonsense over just disgusting prurience. People think his 'important' comics mean something, which is a little sad, nauseating for what it says about people easily tricked by poorly thought out or stolen ideas, and lets him pump out more dreck than most other comic writers.
    He stirs up personal drama with creators he's jealous of, which is why those guys in particular can't stand him.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >I can't for the life of me think of a single Morrison comic that isn't neck deep in rape
      this is truly one of the weirdest things I've ever read about Morrison

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      And Moore's most important work lifts liberally from an old sci Fi TV show

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        From Hell?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          No.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Swamp Thing?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It lifts liberally from a multitude of sources. That you point out one that is also acknowledged within the work is not news.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        moore wears his influences on his sleeve and doesn't try to hide his sources
        Morrison didn't sue the Watchowski bros/sister despite obvious plagiarism due to the fact Morrison also plaigerized his comics from Bryan Talbot and Moorwiener while trying to hide the connection.
        Parody, homage, all that is great, it's in fact how creativity works, but stealing without acknowledging the source and not providing anything new while pretending you're a genius who invented all possible concepts is a bad look.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          There is one part in Invisibles that is a pastiche of Jerry Cornelius, that is explicitly a pastiche, like in universe. The whole "Grant ripped off Moorwiener" is deep frickin' nonsense.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      always so strange when I read paragraphs like this. makes me realize how different some people's brains are compared to mine. I mean, I know it's Cinemaphile and it's not exactly a site that attracts high human capital, but you wrote out all of this and the only comic you mention is The Invisibles. don't you think it would help your point if you picked out a few of Morrison's comics and explain exactly what was bad about them, instead of screeching about all of it and making a bunch of vague generalizations that can't even be argued?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Morrison has it easy in that respect. Moore has loads of schizophrenic haters.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Bryon Talbot
        No one gives specifics here, it is perceptions of perceptions

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          He worked with Bryan Talbot in Near Myths. They were friends, both doing Moorwiener rip-offs until Talbot stepped it up a notch (Talbot had Moorwiener's blessing for some reason, while Morrison did not). You could trace back several parallels to Talbot's early comics
          >"I can see you!" from Animal Man to Talbot's Chester P. Hackenbush stoner meta comics
          >several parallels in The Invisibles to The Adventures of Luther Arkwright, though the visual parallels may just be references and the concepts may come from Moorwiener, PKD and Robert Anton Wilson, just like Arkwright
          It's kind of a stretch as it is, but also know that these "plagiarism" accusations are bullshit because all three of these, like most creatives, borrowed from someone else.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Didn't mean to quote the bryan talbout. My point was more, no one specifies which work they think is x, they just give these weird takes based off of snippets of information.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The first Allan Moore story I ever read was a Thargg's Future Shock in 2000 AD that very blatantly plagiarized Steven King's short story Trucks.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        And anecdote says that Watchmen's alien stuff ripped off an Outer Limits episode (which even is mentioned in the comic) and Len Wein called him out on it and didn't want to work on the book.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          The ending is largely a combination of a major plot point in The Sirens of Titan by Kurt Vonnegut and "The Architects of Fear" from The Outer Limits. Having read/watched both of these, and of course having read Watchmen, the similarities don't end there, but to call it a rip-off is silly. You could draw many parallels between The Sirens of Titan and Watchmen, but they are ultimately very different works.
          I'm actually working through finding a good portion of the sources of inspiration of Watchmen because I like it so much, because it's fun, and knowing the full context at a deeper level only makes my penis harder.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            show me whatchu got homie
            sounds interesting

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              I don't have much yet, but so far I've read/watched:
              >The Sirens of Titan by Kurt Vonnegut
              >"The Architects of Fear" (The Outer Limits)
              >Slaughterhouse-Five by Kurt Vonnegut
              >Moby-Dick by Herman Melville
              >"Ozymandias" by Percy Bysshe Shelley
              >Taxi Driver
              >Mad Max
              >The Question by Steve Ditko
              >Mr. A by Steve Ditko
              >Love and Rockets v1 by Jaime Hernandez and Gilbert Hernandez
              >The Adventures of Luther Arkwright by Bryan Talbot
              >Nexus v1 by Mike Baron and Steve Rude
              >Squadron Supreme by Mike Gruenwald and co.
              >"Master Race" by Al Feldstein and Bernard Krigstein
              Haven't read/finished:
              >Blue Beetle, Captain Atom by Steve Ditko
              >Peacemaker by Joe Gill and Pat Boyette
              >Peter Cannon, Thunderbolt by Pete Morisi
              >The Amazing Spider-Man by Stan Lee and Steve Ditko
              >The Spirit by Will Eisner
              >The Threepenny Opera by Bertolt Brecht
              >The Comedians by Graham Greene
              >the Satires by Juvenal
              >Gladiator by Philip Wylie
              >the Son of Sam letters (via Lawrence D. Klausner)
              Some of these influences play a very, very minor role in Watchmen.
              I may have forgotten some. If you noticed other influences, let me know.

              >but to call it a rip-off is silly
              I'm not calling it a rip off but I am saying there is an anecdote that Len Wein called it a rip off and though Alan Moore was a hack.

              I wasn't accusing you directly.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >I wasn't accusing you directly.
                Never said you were, just clarifying it was more about what Len supposedly said.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Mike Gruenwald
                Mark Gruenwald, sorry.
                I probably missed other EC stuff.

                >I wasn't accusing you directly.
                Never said you were, just clarifying it was more about what Len supposedly said.

                Got it. They must have had some other problems, because that seems like a flimsy excuse to quit a project.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Neat.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Dont forget The Shield from Archie Comics, The Comedian was partially based on him as well as Peacemaker.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Plus Nick Fury.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Moore said Rorschach's speech pattern is based on Herbie's

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >but to call it a rip-off is silly
            I'm not calling it a rip off but I am saying there is an anecdote that Len Wein called it a rip off and though Alan Moore was a hack.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >bombs in wombs, whatever
      It was even more moronic than that.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        God, I forgot all about just how moronic Nemesis was.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >I can't for the life of me think of a single Morrison comic that isn't neck deep in rape
      You mean like the vast majority of his work?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Post some of these Morrison rape scenes. Do one from every work of his, in chronological order, if you can.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          not him but the only rapes I can think of are Crazy Jane and maybe Talia raping Batman.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You can't think of them because they don't exist. Crazy Jane had unspecified abuses in her past, and Talia/Bruce is a Mike W Barr scene.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              She was raped by her dad and a homeless guy, that's why she's crazy

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          He doesn't do it in every book, but rape or attempted rape have definitely been present in quite a number of books. Nothing wrong with that, but he was tooting his own horn a little too hard by claiming he never did a book with rape in it in decades of comics unlike Moore.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >can't post a single rape scene by Morrison
            There's literally DOZENS of actual rape scenes penned by Moore.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              He posted one, is attempted rape not edgy enough?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Keep trying to move those goalposts, homosexual. The fact is Morrison doesn't have well full of rape hacks, Moore does.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The Filth certainly got pretty filthy.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Yes, it's a well-known meme that Moore couldn't write a comic without involving rape in it in some way. He still exaggerated his own history.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Anon, those are syringes.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Dan Dare's getting raped in the ass hence "think of England"

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I think the only books that I enjoyed that Morrison wrote were Doom Patrol and Marvel Boy because they felt like you were experiencing somebody else's acid trip (also fricking Cosmic Jihad)

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >bombs in wombs
      written English really needs a complete overhaul

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        what, you have a problem with womb bombs resulting from Sean Bean riding rough through with a cough?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          7/10, gave me a sensible chuckle.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Do not bomb the wombs.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >I can't for the life of me think of a single Morrison comic that isn't neck deep in rape
      Glorious bait.

      >can't post a single rape scene by Morrison
      There's literally DOZENS of actual rape scenes penned by Moore.

      Yes, it's a well-known meme that Moore couldn't write a comic without involving rape in it in some way. He still exaggerated his own history.

      Sex and death are subjects of interest for Moore. He includes both in some manner in almost all of his comics, but death is depicted way, way more than sex, and non-rape sexual content is depicted more than rape sex.
      Watchmen, for example, has
      >millions of deaths, including the civilian massacre, a man being completely disintegrated, twice, several animals, several vigilantes, a toddler, a pregnant woman, casualties of war, a boatload of people by explosive, death by immolation, death by electrocution, death by natural causes, familicide, etc.
      >multiple sexual encounters, including Jon and Janey, Jon and Laurie, Dan and Laurie, three times, Walter's mother with a customer, and a writer and an artist, not to mention all the sex talk and implications
      >one off-screen rape and one on-screen rape

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >I can't for the life of me think of a single Morrison comic that isn't neck deep in rape
      All Star Superman

  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    everyone hates morrison cause he's a hateable homosexual
    the fact that he's aping anything that makes an impression on him doesn't help

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Moore doesn't care about Morrison, Morrison fuels the "feud" to profit off of it.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This, Morrison is a messy b***h who feeds off of the drama.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This, Morrison is a messy b***h who feeds off of the drama.

      Morrison doesn't "fuel the feud" much at all actually. he made fun of Morrison's comics in the 90's in (I think) 2000 AD Magazine. Then there was that back and forth they had like over a decade ago. They really barely mention each other at all. in fact, Morrison speaks pretty highly of Moore over on his substack.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        yeah its an old thing that moore doesn't remember nor cares especially now that he is out of the medium and that morrison already left behind decades ago as par of the shock persona, it only exists in the minds lf mentally moronic people in places like this that only know one single snapshot of any authors lives, forever focusing and losing sleep to it.

  7. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Grant Morrison isn't a very good writer.

  8. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    All three of them suck.

  9. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Because he's so smug about it.

  10. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Satanist pagans

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      They're not satanists, they're Chaos Magicians. Satanism is another thing entirely, and is closer to just being about contrarian atheism. Chaos Magick is someone misunderstanding Schrodinger's Box and thinking we can all be gods if we're high enough.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Only Morrison is a chaos magician.
        Moore practices a more traditional form of magic based on Thelema and the writings of John Dee.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >traditional
          You mean 'kosher'. Celtic traditional magic is about poultices and singing inside tree circles.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I said *more* traditional, I didn't say it was the most traditional form of magic that exists.
            And regardless it is part of a long established tradition, whether that tradition is Celtic in origin or not is really beside the point.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              israeli demon summoning is only traditional to israeli subverters of host nations, anon. 'Traditional' actually means something, it doesn't just indicate age or muh prestige.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        nah homie, its all satanism, only the names change. The pervasive doctrine doesnt change much.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Do you even know what satanism is?
          Just look at orthodox israelitery, feral Black folk and lgbt homosexuals as example of actual satanism.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            How brown are you?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Satanism, as in people who actually call themselves satanists as an organization. Are contrarian atheists and Paradise Lost fans, they only say they worship satan ironically.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              they're essentially shitposting at Christians who hate that freedom of religion is protected in the Constitution

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        If they’re chaos magicians, why didn’t Moore just use the chaos emeralds to become Super Moordow and get back the rights to Watchmen. Hmmmm?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          He just cursed DC, we're seeing the results now.

  11. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Because they are brit leftists. That's what Moorewiener and Moore have in common.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Morrison is a troony, do you think he is not a leftist too?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        They hate him because of class differences.
        >by his own admission Grant Morrison had spent most of the Punk era in his room for fear of being spoken to roughly by some uncouth person with a pink Mohawk and a U.K. Subs T-shirt. I’m afraid I didn’t see how appealing to completely unearned teen rebel credentials made any difference to the spoiled-child behaviour of a deeply unpleasant middle-aged man.
        Contrast with Moore
        >Alan Moore was born in 1953 in The Boroughs, a working-class section of Northampton, England. He grew up in a small house with his parents, Ernest Moore and Sylvia Doreen, and his brother and grandmother. The Boroughs struggled economically after WW2 and had some of Northampton's highest illiteracy rates.
        And Moorwiener who was a bit more well-off but had street cred
        >Moorwiener was born on 18th December, 1939, in Mitcham, South London, shortly after the outbreak of World War Two. As the war came to an end, his father left the family home and young Michael was brought up an only child by his mother, whose employer — Ernst Jellinek, an Austrian israelite and disciple of Rudolf Steiner’s strange brand of Christian mysticism — became an important, early educational influence on Moorwiener (who was the first pupil ever to be expelled from Michael Hall School in Sussex, an enlightened, liberal Steiner school).

        >His upbringing was as varied as his schooling was unorthodox, with relatives across the whole social spectrum (from factories to 10, Downing Street).

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Ah that makes sense, I always pegged Morrison as a wishy washy coward who's bark is worse than his bite. At least that was the impression I got from Milligan not wanting to divulge info on their cancelled collaboration cause it might hurt his PR.

          Still I like Zenith, Doom Patrol, and Animal Man and will probably continue to do so.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            What bark

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              He pretends he's this big transgressive punk, it's part of his image. Though when you get down to it he's just maintaining an image, a facade, desperately trying to seem cool.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          This is true. As a leftist that grew up poor, I have contempt for anyone who has never eaten a hot dog wrapped in a slice of bread.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          So, basically, the problem is that they're Brits.

          If they were Irish, they could've settled the whole thing with a bar fight and gone on afterward as best buds.

  12. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Moorwiener hates Morrison because he feels he lifted a ton of shit from him, like Gideon Stargrave being his version of Moorwiener's Jerry Cornelius. Moore hates Morrison because Morrison has been a prick that takes shots at him in the press but when they've met in person he had nothing to say, so he comes across as a spineless little b***h.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      > he lifted a ton of shit from him
      Hearing Moorewiener call GW thieves in an interview had me laughing.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Hearing Moorewiener call GW thieves in an interview had me laughing.
        Too be fair, it isn't more of a rip-off because they lost Malal.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          GW's properties are a mish mash of everything the founders and designers found awesome. Like how Eldar and Tyranid architecture were taken from Krall, the Godwyn bolter was taken from War in the Pocket, and Ciaphas Cain is 40k's version of Flashman. The company never acknowledged or denied it's influences but it isn't a public person that talks to people like a writer does. Hell, it isn't even the same group anymore. All the old guard has left. I wouldn't call them thieves in the sense that Moorewiener did.

          >it isn't more of a rip-off because they lost Malal
          Do tell. I only know that Malal used to exist as a tidbit of lore that fell into obscurity.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Jerry Cornelius
      More like Lewis Carnelian

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Moorwiener and Moore hate people who are influenced by them
      Autism 101.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      So what did he say, exactly? And where?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Moore hates Morrison because Morrison has been a prick that takes shots at him in the press but when they've met in person he had nothing to say, so he comes across as a spineless little b***h.

      Morriston and Mark Miller both. Back in their 2000ad days they made a point of pissing off the old guard. Alan Grant told a story in the Future Shocks documentary about how when they were new he invited them both round his house to dinner, had a very pleasant evening, then found out a few weeks later that they'd written an editorial for the comic taking potshots at suburban middle class types writing for the comic from their nice houses, while they were the real deal. Grant was an old Scottish socialist type, wasn't terribly well off and had been messed about by publishers just as much as the other creators of Moores era, but it was the rudeness that got to him the most. He was still angry about it decades later
      >Ah gave them their tea!

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I mean, thats is a tremendously b***h move on their part. I'd be furious too.

  13. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    For Moore, I'm pretty sure it's because Morrison made it so that his name became synonymous with Moore's while being a c**t at him for many years. That's basically it.
    Not sure about Moorwiener.

  14. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Morrison fricked over comics creators who were still alive by using their creations uncredited on his Zenith strip at the start of his career

    Moore (among others) hated the fact that he'd himself worked on Mick Anglo's Marvelman without Anglo getting a penny, when Anglo had in fact owned the rights all along and various big-mouth comics guys like Todd McFarlane who like to talk up creator rights had been involved in screwing Anglo out of his creation

    Moorwiener is a full on no gods, no masters type and doesn't give a shit about a latecomer wannabe like Morrison who obsesses over and elevates old continuity as some kind of cult veneration, apparently unaware that the still-living people who created it did so over lunch because they had a deadline and didn't really give a shit about what it would mean to a junkie thirty years later, Moore has some of the same attitudes specifically toward the endless regurgitation of stories despite his League series, but probably in this instance dislikes Morrison for the same reason people who can see with their eyes dislike Zack Snyder films, because a lot of his work is just showy crap that doesn't even serve the purpose of hitting deadlines as Morrison apparently agonizes over every word

    for personal reasons I'd guess just because Morrison is as a guy totally awful to be around, completely up his own arse about his own work, unwilling to accept the same criticisms of his work that he levels at others, still delusionally acting like a teenager about to hit the big time even though he's a tubby 60 year old double smackhead

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I think a major reason is that despite selling himself as the iconoclast rebel a lot of Morrison's work is fairly conservative/prudish in subtext. He's fairly sex-negative, pro-authority, and traditional family oriented.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >He's fairly sex-negative, pro-authority, and traditional family oriented.
        Of all the things one could say about Morrison, this one just doesn't make any sense at all. His New X-Men run is exactly the opposite of all this. And not a single comic he's written in the past decade is "pro-authority" in any meaningful way. And I have no idea where you are getting the "traditional family oriented" thing from.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          He went full Space Cop with his Green Lantern run and defended himself to ths seething lefties on his substack by saying he has personally known good cops.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            He says he met a few police officers who "seem okay" while also decrying the entire institution. He also says the only reason Green Lantern is a good cop is because he's fictional, as the entire institution of real life police is rotten to the core. Why do you distort his words so much to fit your world view?

            by the way, in this same substack where you say he is "defending himself from seething lefties" he is arguing that Hal Jordan is pansexual and talking about how he got accused of being "woke" for this.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >I was able to relate to them, have a laugh, and get on as with normal people. They do exist among the ranks.
              In other words, he's known good cops.
              >he is arguing that Hal Jordan is pansexual
              Nothing like this exists within the work itself. The alt-u Hal being gay with Sinestro isn't our Hal.
              >he got accused of being "woke" for this.
              Well Season Two was trying so hard to be woke that it forgot to be entertaining, yes.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                'Hal is pansexual' is the same as saying James Kirk is 'pansexual'. They frick alien b***hes. Ha ha.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Honestly though it says something that the ones complaining about Green Lantern being a cop back when Morrison started his run were the worst Culture Cops.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I don't know why people bring up things that happened 30 years ago as evidence of people character today. Morrison has been pretty vocal about creator rights and the way DC in particular has screwed creators out of money, especially recently.

      >for personal reasons I'd guess just because Morrison is as a guy totally awful to be around, completely up his own arse about his own work, unwilling to accept the same criticisms of his work that he levels at others, still delusionally acting like a teenager about to hit the big time even though he's a tubby 60 year old double smackhead
      what is the point of just making up this random shit???

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Morrison has been pretty vocal about creator rights and the way DC in particular has screwed creators out of money, especially recently.

        Yeah, because now HE is the one with something to lose in that fight.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Morrison has been pretty vocal about creator rights and the way DC in particular has screwed creators out of money, especially recently.

        Anon, look up what Morrison was saying about Siegel and Shuster back in 2010-11.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I find it really fricking suspect that literally every time in this thread you attribute some out there position to Grant, you don't actually have a fricking quote or a source, it's just "look it up dude, crazy stuff."

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >From Siegel and Shuster through later chapters on Kirby or Jim Starlin, you cover a lot of the creative life of the people behind comics and how one informs the other, and you make some particular observations about Siegel and Shuster's desires as artists as well as professionals. There's so much chatter over the lawsuits over Superman and what not, but for you, did you feel like the characters transcend some of those debates on their own terms, or is that creative personality something that informs how our whole industry works even to today?
            >Morrison: Well, to me it's never been honestly what's interesting about this stuff. I think the stories outlast all of those complications. You look at the people who created those characters, and they're all dead. But the characters will still be around in 50 years probably – at least the best of them will. So I try not to concern myself with that. These are deals made in times before I was even born. I can say from experience that young creative people tend to sell rights to things because they want to get noticed. They want to sell their work and to be commercial. Then when they grow up and get a bit smarter, they suddenly realize it maybe wasn't so good and that the adults have it real nice. [Laughs] But still, it's kind of the world. I wouldn't want to comment on that because it was something I wasn't around for. I can't tell why they decided to do what they did. Obviously Bob Kane came in at the same age and got a very different deal and profited hugely from Batman's success. So who knows? They were boys of the same age, but maybe some of them were more keen to sell the rights than others. It all just takes a different business head.
            He does make a good point though.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Metacommentary in his Action Comics run as well.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Moore hates Morrison because Morrison practically harassed him and accused him of being obsessed with rape.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Moore is obsessed with rape, though. It's not even subtle.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          He seems to have been part of a feminist rape survivor group in his early adult years. His first wife and mistress may have been victims as well. Moore himself was molested, and so were his classmates in grade school.
          He said something about including rape in his stories because he's known so many people that were victims of sexual abuse, and it never really comes up in comics compared to murders. Even his own comics have a crazy number of murder victims with a sprinkle of rapes, but all anyone ever brings up is the rapes.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >without Anglo getting a penny
      I've read all the Marvelman legal shit, and Anglo certainly DID get paid every step of the way

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >every step of the way
        the entire chain of events was predicated on the misconception that he didn't retain the rights to the characters, so he didn't see any money until the final step when Marvel swooped in and bought it out from under McFarlane. Moore was the only one who smelled something fishy in how Dez Skinn acquired the property (and only several years after the fact). Skinn even said Anglo was never paid for the original stories that were reprinted in Eclipse. And further, it's extremely unlikely Anglo ever saw a dime from the money McFarlane himself made off Marvelman/Miracleman.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Utter fricking bullshit, in fact at times he was the ONLY one getting paid. Dez Skinn was making sure he was getting something even as he was regularly not paying his artists. This is some dumbfrick excuse Moore invented out of thin air when in reality be fell out with both Skinn and Gary Leach. Moore doesn't give two fricks about Anglo (and why would he? Anglo is a massive hack).

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >in fact
            >in reality
            Except it sounds like pure conjecture.
            He fell out with Alan Davis. I never heard anything about Garry Leach.

  15. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I think you guys are kind of overthinking it and self inserting yourselves on one you like more

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Anon have you read the shit Moore said about Morrison?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I have and I don't think it's as deep as everyone here is trying to make it out to be. I think

        Have you never met a nerd? 90% of being a nerd is getting angry at people for doing the things they themselves do. Et aliud cum id faciam would be the nerds school motto.

        summed it up best.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          see

          you've never met a nerd
          Ignorantia non excusat

  16. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    This thread is a hard read. I really liked Invisibles, Filth, and his Doom Patrol run but learning what the guy is actually lis making me rethink him

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      you don't have to like a creator on a personal level to like his work

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You're weak minded.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        This. I've heard all sorts of awful shit about some of my favorite creators, but that does not affect my enjoyment of their work.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      most the people in this thread are just straight up inventing rumors and lying about the past. don't take it seriously.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Don't let it get to you. Moore's a gigantic fricking homosexual too and hasn't written anything decent in decades but no one here will tell you that

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Moore is based. His ABC comics and Providence are great.
        I like Morrison too, but not as much.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Only thing I ever liked of his was From Hell and that's more for the art than anything. Glad DC keep giving him the shaft by putting out Watchmen. Frick that bitter old homosexual.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You've got him all wrong.

            ?si=auIwDY67XSBwqSpT

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I don't know why people bring up things that happened 30 years ago as evidence of people character today. Morrison has been pretty vocal about creator rights and the way DC in particular has screwed creators out of money, especially recently.

      >for personal reasons I'd guess just because Morrison is as a guy totally awful to be around, completely up his own arse about his own work, unwilling to accept the same criticisms of his work that he levels at others, still delusionally acting like a teenager about to hit the big time even though he's a tubby 60 year old double smackhead
      what is the point of just making up this random shit???

      There's dedicated shills here on this board spreading lies and innuendo about Morrison in particular. He pissed off some high ranking CCP homosexual. The same reason he became 'they/them', but still doesn't work much anymore.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Like I said before, Moore has it way worse.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This thread is a hard read because half the posters are Brits and several generations ago the British forgot how to speak (let alone type) the language that they invented.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Its our language yank. Speak Spanish if it makes you mad, or just admit you don't even speak it and only use a derivative.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Oi bruv, you bloody wanker.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            WELLLL I DO DECLARE THAT THIS HE'UH BRIDISH FELLA MIGHT JUST BE RUSTLIN UP MAH CATTLE MHMM NOW I GOTTA TAKE MAH SON TO SIGMA JUNIOR HIGH (Sponsored by Lockheed Martin, glory to our master, the glorious nation of Israel) WHERE HE WILL GRADUATE WITH UNDER MAJOR HONOURS

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Keep clear of the moors and lay off your sheep-shagging ways, tosser.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Hispanic here
      This thread is full of homosexuals

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        What does your race have to do with it?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Hispanic here
        Y ESO QUE TIENE QUE VER

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          PUTO

  17. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >his name is Moorwiener
    >it's not a pseudonym

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      There are worse names out there. I've known a Woodwiener and a wienerburn.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I know a couple Sukdeeps and even a Sukmandeep.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I went to high school with a family with the name Dick

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Same, but it was spelled 'Dyck'. The girl in my class was named Naomi, which is ironic when spelled backwards. Of course her parents were drug-head 'hippies'.

  18. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    ITT millargays

  19. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It's kind of funny to see people just uncritically repost shit that Moore has said about it. From the other side, apparently Moore was always a huge butthole to Morrison from the beginning, for seemingly no reason, so Morrison played up the """feud""" for attention, something that they've said they've come to regret. The classism angle is insane, GM wasn't living some posh upper middle class life or something.

    I think the truth is (like it usually is) somewhere in the middle. Moore was probably a prickly sumb***h to a maybe coming-on-strong Morrison when they first met, then Morrison used the "feud" to bump their own notoriety, and Moore played into super hard because he's Moore.

    The Moorwiener stuff is nonsense. He's friends with Moore so he hates Morrison. He's said that literally everything that Grant's ever published is ripping him off, which is just untrue. I doubt he's ever seen a page of anything Morrison has ever wrote, he's just parroting what his good buddy Alan Moore told him.

    I can see it from Moore's side even though I am definitely biased towards Morrison. It seems like Grant genuinely regrets the shit they did in the past (and who doesn't do stupid shit when they are in their twenties) while Moore is still super salty about it.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >The classism angle is insane, GM wasn't living some posh upper middle class life or something.
      Morrison himself said he was too afraid to hang out with punks back in the 70s. He's a safe-edgy nerd. To a drug dealer who grew up poor like Moore or a guy who actually got himself expelled from a prestigious school like Moorwiener, that makes him a contemptible poseur.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Have you met punks? They're all fricking horrible. That only raises Morrison in my esteem.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Oh please, Moorwiener was just a posh bint. Getting expelled from a posh school doesn't suddenly mean he was a rough-and-tumble tough from the streets.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I think at the beginning, Morrison wanted to write some Miracleman stories while Moore was still wrestling with the clusterfrick of the publishing between Warrior and Eclipse. Then there's the threatening letter, though its existence and origins are dubious.
      Moore may or may not have namedropped Morrison to Karen Berger when she was scouting for talent.
      But Morrison definitely talked shit over the years, in and out of his comics, whereas there's very little of that coming from Moore. One of the few recorded instances I remember of Moore talking Morrison before the big explosion (where Moore refers to Morrison as "herpes-like"), is that he liked the art for Arkham Asylum, but not the writing. He also may have been referring to Morrison when he said something to the effect of "merely referring the Burroughs cut-up technique doesn't make your comics innovative" or something like that.
      Moore has a self-proclaimed bad memory, but Morrison is also a self-proclaimed bullshitter, so who knows.

  20. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Based Grant got a medal from the Queen, the other 2 are jelly af

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Moore accepting an honour
      He’s literally an anarchist, no way in hell would he accept the blessing of the establishment.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >He’s literally an anarchist
        He larps as one but he's a standard issue left-liberal when push comes to shove

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Eh, it kinda makes sense Moore would support Corbyn, if anyone was likely to actually shake up politics a bit in this country it was him, everyone else is just some flavour of neolib. Also that looks like the Guardian, the middle class liberals' paper, they hated Corbyn because he's an actual economic socialist who would have made them pay more tax and lowered the value of their investment property portfolios rather than simply declaring that trannies are women and heckin' valid and immigrants are welcome. I imagine their angle with that article was:
          >Meet an average Corbyn supporter: Mad bearded anarchist comics nerd who thinks he's a wizard

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Alan Moore is a philosophical analyst, but on voting issues has always been Old Labour (back when they wre socialists, before Blair pulled them into being a neoliberal party)

  21. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I recently tried reading Moorwiener's Elric books but couldn't get into it. Am I reading it wrong?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I have been enjoying them.
      I am on the third to last book and the whole thing has basically just been Elric fricking up in more and more catastrophic ways as the series goes on and becoming more miserable about it.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Elric is weird in that the original line of short stories started with The Dreaming City which is now the start of Book Three in the mainline reading order and then wrote the content of books 4-6 after, which then made up the "Mainline Elric Content". After which Moorwiener went back and wrote a bunch of other short stores and novels across the timeline that came to make up the rest of the main 6 books.
      So basically the bulk of books 1 and 2 are prequel stories rewritten over the years to flow better as part of the greater whole and other stories that were written after the fact have been tucked into the greater narrative is sometime disjointed places.

      Its a common thing in collections of old school pulp magazine writers works where if there is a chronology they tent to place them in timeline order not order written.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Eh, I recently read the original two, and they are pretty mid. I don't really get the hype.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      No, they're dogshit

  22. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I didn't know Moorwiener cared, but Allen hates him because Morrison talked shit about him for attention in the old days. He also thinks Morrison ripped him off but I'm not sure on what specifically. I think I heard McCarthy and Milligan dislike him for ripping off Paradax with Zenith. I haven't read either no idea how similar they are besides the jacket.

  23. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Iirc didn't the Moore/Morrison feud start when Grant sent Alan an unsolicited spec script for Miracle man to try and get work at Eclipse Comics?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The one thing they agree on is that they met in the mid/late eighties. Grant says they tried to be friendly and was brushed off, Moore says Morrison wanted him to be their mentor and wanted nothing to do with it. My guess is that Morrison, who has said they were and are a fan of Moore's work, probably came on a little strong, and Moore read too much into it. Morrison stoking the fire for notoriety kept it going.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Grant says they tried to be friendly
        >they

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          /co/mblr

  24. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I like Morrison, but I'd think he's a weirdo too if I was Moore.

  25. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Moore seems to be the reason Morrison got into cape comics. Morrison was writing trippy underground comics until he came across Marvelman and Captain Britain, which inspired him to write capes.

  26. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Morrison casually makes them both look like utter hacks, that's why.

  27. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Just looking at Moorwiener beard I can tell he is a homosexual.

  28. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Doesn't Moore hate Morrison because they're members of rival wizard schools? Or was that somebody else?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I sort of get what Moore is getting at with magic (he sees it as work that can effect people's consciousness, and art is perhaps its ultimate manifestation: if a work of art moves you to think or to change a tiny aspect of your life or self, then that's magic at work) but Morrison is all over the place. Sometimes he'll say things like "it's just exploring aspects of your mind, like when you summon the spirit of John Lennon you're just emptying your mind of everything that isnt' John Lennon." But on other pieces he's more like "oh yeah you can totally summon anyone you want and chat with them, and aliens will take you to the end of the universe and show you everything. It just works."

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        That isn't Morrison, that's just Chaos Magick. That's kind of the point.

  29. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Neil Gayman is a sex offender

  30. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You know, I never really thought about it, but why is Moore so pissed off about the Watchman rights? He'd still be getting royalties (I believe he gives them all to Gibbons), and I feel like if he had the rights he just wouldn't publish it anymore because he seems to hate it so much. It stays in print because it keeps selling, it seems like less DC fricking him over and more being a victim of success, unless I'm missing something.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Alan Moore just likes being pissed off. Miserable frick.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      He's upset with the fact that DC is using his name to sell their crap comics and adaptations, he doesn't like the fact that he got israeliteed out of the rights in the first place via the up-and-coming trade paperback, and he had a friend that was going to write a novelization of the movie to help a sick family member or something but got denied by DC. It was more than one thing.

      Alan Moore just likes being pissed off. Miserable frick.

      Journalists keep asking him the same questions. He's always happy to talk about new projects, but they tend to ask him about Watchmen regardless.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The comics with Alan Moore's name on them are Alan Moore's crap comics, anon. You literally can't use his name to sell anything else.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I doubt he's angry about it any more, but he was promised the rights after it went out of print, at a time when the trade paperback market we know today and "evergreen" books as a concept didn't exist. He had the reasonable expectation that it would go out of print within a reasonable timeframe, which is why he signed the contract with DC. It's unlikely DC created the trade paperback market basically out of thin air just to frick over Moore, but they still fricked him over.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Neil Gaiman has also said that when it became clear that the tpb / graphic novel format wasn't going away, he and other creators renegotiated with DC and got new agreements that took it into account. Gaiman supposedly got Moore to agree to a similar deal to what he had with Sandman, but DC declined. Its not just Moore being intransigent, somebody in the corporate structure wanted to discipline him specifically for causing trouble. Then later there's that whole thing with ABC and Jim Lee, of course.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        They never 'fricked him over', anon. He signed the contract to the deal he made. It's his own fault if he's a moron who can't into anticipated consequences.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          They did frick him over the toy rights by calling the Watchmen action figures "collectibles" and not toys. Though I don't think he cared as much about the money at that point.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          The deal was made with the intent of allowing him to keep the rights, that was the point of the deal. They did frick him over in that regard.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Alan Moore bet against himself so he deserved to fail. He thought the book would go out of print and DC wouldn't care about it anymore so he'd get to do whatever he wanted with a proven failure of a property.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              I don't think he bet against himself, he bet against the market changing. TPBs were new at the time if I recall correctly, and he thought it would be a limited print thing like most floppies.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              I don't think expecting a book to go out of print for a while eventually is the same expecting it to fail, especially when you have a deal written to give you those rights in that circumstance. That was the point, it was a way to give him something that wasn't done by the company at the time. His mistake was thinking they were trustworthy. If he thought it was that much of a failure he probably wouldn't have bothered with the deal at all.

              They didn't do shit but sell his books, anon. Should they have gone back on the deal and not sold them?

              Literally yes, that was the whole point.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                moron alert. All opinions discarded.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                God you are fricking moronic

                Explain.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Watchmen has been a solid seller for decades. There's not a company in existence that would have purposely let it go out of print.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The modern trade paperback market did not exist when Moore signed the deal. The "evergreen" comic book that is kept in print in perpetuity did not exist as a concept. Moore had no reason to believe the book wouldn't go out of print, even if it sold well in floppy form and in an initial collected edition.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Then he's stupid.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                God you are fricking moronic

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Alan got greedy, anon. That's it.
                They offered him lifelong royalties and all sorts of payments, but he wanted the rights. And unfortunately for him, Watchmen became a big hit and the rights never reverted. It's similar to what happened to Sapkjowski with the Witcher videogame.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >he wanted control of stuff he created that would probably lead to less money overall
                >that means he was greedy

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                They're brand bootlickers

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            They didn't do shit but sell his books, anon. Should they have gone back on the deal and not sold them?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          You a bloodsucking lawyer or something? Contracts are more than just the literal text. That's the entire point of a loophole, it's an unforeseen ambiguity that allows one party to ignore the spirit and intention of the contract. Why even offer a rights reversion clause if they never had any intention of honoring it? Moore/Gibbons were even willing to try and renegotiate despite being fricked over and DC flat out refused to hear them.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            They absolutely had the intention of honoring it if Watchmen sold so poorly that it went out of print. It never did.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              That's moronic, comics always go out of print. Watchmen is popular but nowhere near popular enough to justify constant annual printings for 40 years DC are intentionally taking advantage of this for the sole reason of keeping the rights. It's the same deal as V for Vendetta, that one is even less popular.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Dark Knight Returns has never gone out of print either.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Not even for a year? I don't believe that. That's the entire point, the comic didn't have to go out of print in perpetuity, it just needed a single year of no new printings for the rights to revert.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                It and Watchmen have always been two of DC's top selling books on Amazon. They were the first and they'll always be big.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                But so big that it requires a printing every year for 40 years? You don't think the ulterior motive of DC keeping the rights might be the main purpose here? I think you're giving a company notorious for treating their creatives badly over the lifetime way too much of a benefit of a doubt here.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I think they like money and Watchmen is a huge seller that gives them a solid payout every year.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                If it isn't 'that popular', then in what way are they 'taking advantage of it'? You mooregays are mad inconsistent and flat-out moronic.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The IP is valuable moron, I doubt the TPB is selling gangbusters right now.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                It's consistently one of the top selling trade paperbacks every single year, actual moronanon.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >It's consistently one of the top selling trade paperbacks every single year
                Show me some hard numbers, I keep hearing this touted by I never see it pop up on any top 50 sales list for any year outside of new edition releases

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-DC-Comics-Graphic-Novels/zgbs/books/193766 #6 on Amazon right now

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I said hard numbers, ranking on Amazon is useless info. Show me some actual sales here, then maybe you would have an argument.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >ranking on one of the biggest online bookstores is useless
                Those numbers are only known to DC Comics. Though it's pretty obvious that a comic from 1986 being DC's #6 best selling tpb and #12 best selling hardcover at this moment is proof that its popularity is eternal.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                When I said hard numbers I was talking about shit like this non-moronic anon

                if by "top-selling" you mean #305 last year

                >has to restrict down specifically to DC only
                Watchmen sold around 24,000 copies in 2023
                https://www.comicsbeat.com/tilting-at-windmills-297-bookscan-2023-comics-sales-sag-but-scholastic-was-still-a-powerhouse/

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >has to restrict down specifically to DC only
                Watchmen sold around 24,000 copies in 2023
                https://www.comicsbeat.com/tilting-at-windmills-297-bookscan-2023-comics-sales-sag-but-scholastic-was-still-a-powerhouse/

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Yes, DC only gives a shit about how Watchmen does in comparison to its other books. It's been known for a while that cape fiction is finally on the way out.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                then I guess Watchmen will be going out of print sooner rather than later after all

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >DC’s #1 book via Circana BookScan reporters in 2023 is Teen Titans: Robin by Kami Garcia and Gabriel Picola, which sells 34k. This is v4 of the YA Titans graphic novel series, originally branded as being from Zoom. V3, Teen Titans: Beast Boy Loves Raven is #10, selling a little bit over 10k.

                At #2 is the paperback of Alan Moore & Dave Gibbon’s Watchmen, for about 24k copies, while the hardcover edition is #9, with almost 11k more sold.
                Only if DC itself goes out of business. But if WB turns them into a reprint imprint Watchmen will last for quite a while yet.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Only if DC itself goes out of business.
                Yes, that's the joke

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                scholastic only has those numbers because schools buy in bulk for their libraries.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                you're underestimating the absolute grip Dog Man and FNAF have on kids

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                if by "top-selling" you mean #305 last year

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                No, the top-selling graphic novels every year are Dav Pilkey, Raina Telgemeier, Art Spiegelman, Scott Cawthon, about a hundred Japanese people, THEN Watchmen

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Art Spiegelman
                I don't think Maus sold all that well outside of that time it was getting banned, unless it's part of a college curriculum?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                A lot of middle schools use it in their curriculum

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >can't into what makes the IP valuable
                >calls others demonstrating actual knowledge 'moron'
                moron

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >can't into what makes the IP valuable
                Of course I can, the book historically sold well but that hasn't been the case outside of isolated events like the release of the movie, show, or Before Watchmen. No sane company would keep perpetual printing every year for the past 40 years unless it was consistently topping the top 100 charts, it is flagrantly done so they can retain ownership of the rights and no amount of bootlicking will make the argument "they're just doing it for the sales!" a rational argument.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Except the merchandising rights part of the conflict, that was absolutely a loophole moment. Though again Moore didn't care at that point.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            DC did the right thing.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Moore didn't care much about the money, it was still work but the money was only part of it. He made a deal with DC and DC gave their word which they went on to break then refused to renegotiate in good faith until years after Moore had lost all interest in Watchmen and no longer wanted to touch it or DC ever again. Gibbons and him still wanted to play around with the Watchmen universe and had a plan for a Minutemen prequel but DC fricked all that up in favor of keeping the rights in perpetuity.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Imagine not wanting an easy check for the rest of your life

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          He was already comfortable enough, he made a deal and that deal was broken. He also could be making bank on all the shitty movie adaptions of his stuff but would prefer not to be involved at all.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          literally Dobson-tier mentality

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Basically the relationships at DC were not transactional and corporate like, they were personal. A large proportion of the British Invasion and subsequent comics were built on these relationships. Karen Berger especially went out to get a lot of people and helped build Vertigo. A lot of it was formed via agreements and discussions. It wasn't like they set out to screw people over necessarily, they made assurances that he would get the work back but the agreement ends when it stops being published so they just never stopped publising it.

      Alan Moore was actually pretty chill about it even into the 00s, he had said his piece but they never let it go. When the movie was being made a friend of his (Stephen Moore, no relation, just has the same name) was offered a job writing the novelisation. Alan accepted on the basis that Stephen needed the money as Stephen's brother was dying. DC found out about this and pressured Alan Moore. Eventually Stephen lost the job.

      This is not the only time DC has used friends to pressure Alan Moore. This means for Alan it is personal. Even AFTER the movie, you could meet Alan Moore and get Watchmen signed. I got my copy of Watchmen signed by Alan. But things changed. A combination of Moore getting over, online narratives (like what play out on Cinemaphile everyday) and more just meant Moore was over it and didn't care anymore. So he gave a lot of angry quotes when people sort him out for comment even though he had moved on.

      You see Alan has a legitimate reason for being angry because it was personal, because it involved friends and former friends, because a company used relationships, influence and money to create problems. And even after two decades Alan, despite being angry, was still carrying on. But it reached a breaking point with the Stephen Moore thing and he just wanted to be left alone.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Moore getting over
        *older

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        > When the movie was being made a friend of his (Stephen Moore, no relation, just has the same name) was offered a job writing the novelisation. Alan accepted on the basis that Stephen needed the money as Stephen's brother was dying. DC found out about this and pressured Alan Moore. Eventually Stephen lost the job.

        DC offered Stephen the novelization and then retired the offer because Alan agreed?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Alan was fine with Steve doing the job because of his circumstance. DC later pressured Alan and then the job for Steve disappeared.

          https://bleedingcool.com/comics/recent-updates/alan-moore-speaks-watchmen-2-to-adi-tantimedh/

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >It was a little while after that that I had a phone call from Steve Moore saying that he'd been contacted by Warner Books, for whom he'd done an extraordinary job of writing the novelisation fo the V FOR VENDETTA movie. He wrote the entire book in a month, which is something very few writers these days would even think about doing. And they had talked to him about how he would be the only possible writer they knew that I would be happy with writing the WATCHMEN novelisation. And they offered him the job. This was at a time when Steve really needed the money because he didn't have any work and it was the year in which he expected to lose his brother. So that money was a very welcome cushion, and the thought that he might have an income in that year was a great consolation to him because it meant that in the expensive and unfortunate time around Chris' impending death that he'd at least have the wherewithal to take care of all of the things that might arise. So I said that I was really happy to hear that and yes, there wasn't anybody else that I would have cheerfully allowed to do the film adaptation, and that he would be the best person for the job, so we left it at that.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              ... (there is a paragraph of context about Dave Gibbons between these posts)
              >Then a couple of weeks thereafter, I got a phone call from Steve Moore saying he'd been contacted by Warner Books and that they told him that they weren't going to be doing a WATCHMEN book and that the job was off. At that point, it seems to me, I understood what 'Alan will be quietly compliant' had meant. It seems to me that what they meant by that was that "Alan realises that if he says no to this or kicks up any trouble, then we're going to take away the money from his friend, as we've been informed, whose brother is dying from Motor Neuron Disease." So it seems to me that they were exerting a kind of pressure upon me through Steven and his dying brother that was execrable, that was inhuman. At this point, I made my feelings known about the matter and went and spoke to Dave Gibbons about it. He still professed not to know what 'Alan will be quietly compliant' was supposed to mean. He was certain that his friends at DC would never have done anything like that. I said that actually, the only perceptions that were important in this were mine. This was what I perceived had happened. I didn't need it proven in a court of law, I mean these people had deniability. But that was the only explanation and short of an explanation of what 'we expect Alan to be quietly compliant' meant, which I've never received, that still is the only scenario that makes any sense to me. So I said to Dave Gibbons, "For the sake of our friendship, Dave, I think it would be better if you and I did not discuss WATCHMEN ever again." Obviously, it was something that both of us felt a little upset about, but it was the only way that I could stop Dave from ever being used to pass on creepy little messages to me, with or without his knowledge. So Dave agreed to that.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >It seems to me that what they meant by that was that "Alan realises that if he says no to this or kicks up any trouble, then we're going to take away the money from his friend, as we've been informed, whose brother is dying from Motor Neuron Disease." So it seems to me that they were exerting a kind of pressure upon me through Steven and his dying brother that was execrable, that was inhuman.
                Key point here from Moore's perspective.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Thanks

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Also the direct reason Moore left DC wasn't directly about the ownership of Watchmen, but due to the whole ratings system debacle.

        Back in the late 80s DC proposed a new ratings system more akin to the one seen in movies. This led to multiple DC creatives from that era like Miller, Moore, Wolfman and Chaykin signing a petition fearing censorship.

        Moore was already angry with DC for cancelling a book. But also due to DC trying to use a technicality to not pay him and Gibbons for a bunch of Watchmen merchandising, but in the end they managed to resolve it. So Moore signs this petition to strike back at DC even though he didn't really care about it.

        The thing is, Wolfman wasn't just a writer/artist like the others but also an editor. DC's policy was that editors could only make internal complaints, not public ones. So Wolfman started fearing he was gonna get fired (which he eventually wasz although only from his editorial position). So when Moore learned about this he told Wolfman that any company that fires somebody for taking a moral position could not count on his services in the future.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Damn.

  31. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Moore, Moor, and Morri

  32. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Moorwiener doesn't count except for a small few.

    Moore originally started it because he's a imbecile angry sad frick. HIS fans carry it well past it sell by date because Morrison gets treated with respect and literature whereas people treat Moore no better than they treat say any decently respected comic writer (say current Tom King), whereas it feels to them that Grant Morrison gets treated like literature with scholarly articles and the like.

  33. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Moore hates everything that isn't his own work because he's a fart huffing, 'I'm so subversive', communist homosexual..
    Michael Moorwiener is basic pattern recognition if you read the first sentence.

  34. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Moore just kind of seems like a c**t. He may have some legitimate takes, and legitimate grievances, but he's also the kind of man who is going to find a problem with absolutely anything. And that's because he hates himself deep down, and he hates his fans because he hates that they enjoy the shit he writes.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      by all accounts he's actually a pretty pleasant guy and only gets annoyed if you're annoying

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >don't step on my completely arbitrary lines in the sand, and I wont explode at you
        Yeah, I've met those buttholes.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          are you an annoying fanboy to them too?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I'm not an "annoying Alan Moore fanboy", I think he peaked with Swamp Thing, and even V for Vendetta is kind of mediocre.
            He would hate me for saying that, is the thing. He hates the fact that anyone likes Swamp Thing, because he thinks the fact that he ever wrote that kind of material is beneath him.
            I picked up his newest short stories compilation. It was kind of pretentious and insufferable. Also very old mannish. You can tell he thinks he's making salient points, but it sounds like he's describing a world stuck in the mid 00's. You can tell he thinks he's being mad edgy by writing about trans stuff, and the "new right". I can just do without it.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >hey I think all your recent works sucks!
              yeah imagine not liking someone who walked up to you and said that

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                It does suck. He's like 80, and senile.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >He would hate me for saying that
              >a creative person would hate me for saying that they haven't been good since the 80s
              Kek, Cinemaphile continues to show they're the most socially inept board on this site.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                His attitude is that people who even like his older work are scum though.
                And his new work is fricking bad, and that isn't my fault.
                >dude, read this Lovecraft rape fiction I wrote!
                No, Alan.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous
              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Is it? Or is his attitude that annoying fanboys who suck off Rorschach for being badass and cool are annoying?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Moore's become deeply embarrassed of ever having been an adult superhero fan and finds being an adult who likes superheroes to be utterly disdainful. His daughter blames it on how he became disillusioned by how the people who make superhero comics are some of the worst people on Earth.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I'm sure if you told him you loved Promethea or Tom Strong he'd be overjoyed to hear someone talking about something other than Watchmen for once.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >His daughter blames it on how he became disillusioned by how the people who make superhero comics are some of the worst people on Earth.
                And he's magically, conveniently exempt from being painted with that brush, huh?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Well, yeah, they fricked him and others over many times.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Good. He's an butthole. Thanks DChads.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                To be fair, adult superhero fans have gotten infinitely more cringe over the years and have proven him right

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Ah yes. This entire world must accommodate me or we are gonna have a long running soap opera feud over nonsense. This dude is a dipshit and if it were any other creator no one would be defending him.

  35. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    All three are idiotic petulant manchildren with delusions of grandeur. Hope that helps clear things up.

  36. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Moore had, early on, actually been kind to Grant Morrison:
    When Morrison was first starting out, Moore agreed to meet him and talked to him about the business, etc.
    Then, when Moore quit DC, he was asked by Karen Berger who were some other writers he might recommend: Morrison was one of the names he mentioned.

    Morrison owes his American career to Moore not only quitting DC, but staying quit (until the Jim Lee sale to DC). Morrison was ungrateful enough to further exploit Moore by attempting to gin up some publicity battle with him -- which Moore ignored until that one interview a few years ago in which Moore finally, after many years of being asked about it, thoroughly spoke about it.

    Morrison's work has certainly had phases of being derivative of Moore (among others), but Morrison's even more derivative public magician persona must also have rankled Moore, as it further connects them by lazy writers in the press. (And beyond -- as evidenced by the wizard duel memes that continue on...)

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      None of this seems correct

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Alan Moore fans, in a nutshell.
        One of the original deluded cults.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      None of this mattered as soon as Animal Man was a hit and Arkham Asylum went multiplatinum. In fact, it's just sour grapes.

  37. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Kek at the Moore-hating schizos peppering the thread.

  38. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    No joke, I had an English class all about Michael Moorwiener in college. To this day, it's my only exposure to his work. Something about time travelling to become Jesus. Was crap.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Moorwiener is known for like three things because he was the first to do them comprehensively on a widespread stage.
      Those being
      >Elric
      The doomed prettyboy dark elf of pale androgynous appeal with a cursed sentient sword. Father to all modern mopey fantasy pretty boys, and cursed Runeswords like Frostmorne form Warcraft.
      >The Eternal Champion
      The concept that the majority of his main characters are the same soul reincarnated across the multiverse to struggle for eternity.
      >A Law and Chaos Cosmology'
      Moorkock wrote the literal book('s) on the concept of a multiversal conflict between Law and Chaos in which neither side is good in an extreme which then got introduced into D&D and spread from there while his depiction of Chaos was basically lifted wholesale for Chaos in Warhammer.
      The truth is that he is not that good of an actual writer he just got to the initial ideas first and wrote it well enough to stoke the imaginations.of people a few years younger than him.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >he is not that good of an actual writer
        Behold the Man seems to say otherwise, although so much Elric and JC stuff will never let us know.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Don't forget being an early afopter and coining the modern usage of "multiverse"

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Moorwiener's whole thing is "The Eternal Champion", which is kind of like the multiverse with different people trying to fight the forces of evil. The most recognizable is Elric, an albino wizard price who wants to sleep with his cousin

      But there's TONS of Eternal Champion stories all told in different styles. My favorites are Jerry Corneilus (a super spy in the near future) and Hawkmoon (a German prince in a medieval steam punk world where England is made up of warlords who want to conquer all of Europe)

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That'll be the novel "Behold The Man". As far as I know, it's its own thing.

  39. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Damn, reading this thread and others like it, Moore and Morrison have the most batshit haters. I guess we don't deserve good comics.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      They're both overrated midwits and their comics are mediocre at best.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        They're both great comic book writers and have multiple masterpieces to each of their names.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I find myself wishing we could have seen a full-on, all-out war between them in the funnybooks.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      We unironically don’t. The current state of the industry is the logical end result of nobody enjoying anything, ever, and in turn the companies being run by Didiot-tier management.

  40. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The question should be have you ever met a wizard that wasn't insufferable?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah, the Wizzard. Like yeah, he just uses his magic to urinate a lot, but he's a surprisingly down to earth dude.

  41. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Grant Morrison back in the 80s tried to present themselves as the edgy boy of the comicbook industry and started trashtalking other creatives.

  42. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    All homosexuals who couldn't make it as real writers so had to stick to writing capeshit for man childern

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >man childern
      OH NO NO NO

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Does Moorwiener even write comics, aside from adaptations of books he already wrote?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The Multiverse by DC Comics, now Titan Comics, and a couple Tom Strong issues and another one I don't remember, I think.

  43. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Moore's been like this since Morrison called him out for plagiarizing Superfolks.

    Fun fact: Moore autistically sperged out over the historical accuracy of a single line in Miller's 300 where a Spartan calls one of the Greek soldiers a boy-fricker. Moore then went on an unhinged rant about how all Spartans were ACHKSHUALLY pedophiles that he learnt in a gay agenda pop pseudo-history book from the 70s, except the vast majority of contemporary historians now completely deny this claim.

    Even more bizarre is that he had no problem basing From Hell off the most insane Jack the Ripper conspiracy book (also from the 70s).

    He also basically called Robert E. Howard a misogynist incel after he killed himself (guy lived with depression his entire life). Moore is just a massive piece of shit.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >depressed people can't be misogynists

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Moore didn't call him a misogynist for anything he specifically said or did besides writing generic 1930s sword and sorcery fantasy novellas.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Generic 1930s anything is probably misogynist/racist/etc

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Howard had a girlfriend and defended women in a letter.
        >You’re right; women are great actors. But I can’t agree with you in your statement that the great women can be counted on the fingers of one hand. Men have sat at the feet of women down the ages and our civilization, bad or good, we owe to the influence of women.

        >Women have always been the inspiration for men, and just as there are thousands of unknown great ones among men, there have been countless women whose names have never been blazoned across the stars, but who have inspired men on to glory. And as for their fickleness– as long as men write the literature of the world, they will rant about the unfaithfulness of the fair sex, forgetting their own infidelities. Men are as fickle as women. Women have been kept in servitude so long that if they lack in discernment and intellect it is scarcely their fault.
        Moore has a habit of being a feminist pick-me, like how in From Hell when he depicted Sir William Gull as a misogynistic killer when in reality he did a lot to get women into the field of medicine. Creepy Alan thinks he's the only good one.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Moore has a habit of being a feminist pick-me
          Look far enough in any male feminist's history and there's sick disgusting porn somewhere in there. Or a domestic battery charge. Or a child sex abuse charge.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Look far enough in any male feminist's history and there's sick disgusting porn somewhere in there
            Don't need to look hard at Moore, he puts weird sex shit in pretty much everything. The sexual violence just scratches the surface. Also notable that he had a poly relationship with two woman and they both found him so insufferable that they left him for each other.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              is that Jaime Hernandez?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Yep.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                love that guy

                speaking of weird sex stuff lol

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >image of two people drinking and then having sex
              there's nothing "weird" about this you terminally online frickwit just die

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                A woman drinking to the point of vomiting and then fricking an alien is pretty weird.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Look far enough in any male feminist's history and there's sick disgusting porn somewhere in there
            Don't need to look hard at Moore, he puts weird sex shit in pretty much everything. The sexual violence just scratches the surface. Also notable that he had a poly relationship with two woman and they both found him so insufferable that they left him for each other.

            You're misreading the kind of feminist Moore is if you think he'd consider that to be at all a blow against his feminist credentials. He's a hippieish free love type feminist, not a radical feminist so-and-so. He put the weird sex shit in Swamp Thing, it's not really buried. Him being personally insufferable is widespread knowledge

            If you want to call Moore a pedo you could've just brought up Lost Girls

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >autistically sperged out
      >went on an unhinged rant
      You're projecting this bit. Moore called him out, and Miller ultimately agreed with him but defended his choice to write it that way.
      Moore's outspoken and I respect that, even if he tends to be wrong half the time.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Maybe he should be more knowledgeable about things before opening fricking mouth. Can't wait til this moronic hack is dead.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          That's easy to say in hindsight.
          He's the only remaining Cinemaphile person I will feel sad about when he goes.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >He also basically called Robert E. Howard a misogynist incel after he killed himself
      you're saying this like he's commenting on the suicide days after it happened and not as if Howard died in the fricking 30s.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Fair point, I worded that poorly,. I didn't mean to imply that, I just wanted to highlight that he dabbed on a guy who was severely depressed for writing silly fantasy stories that Moore personally found distasteful

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      spartan cities specifically accepted pederast relationships. there are literal artifacts of pederasty relationships in stone. like a stonemason chiseled out the images of these things. it's on pottery, it's on stone reliefs, it's in philosophical writings by plato, quoting socrates

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        There's probably 10,000 images of people fricking anthropomorphic animals on this website alone, and I'm sure you don't think our society at large condones that on a policy level.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          False equivalence.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >He also basically called Robert E. Howard a misogynist incel after he killed himself
      you're saying this like he's commenting on the suicide days after it happened and not as if Howard died in the fricking 30s.

      Moore was merely parroting the misrepresentations of L. Sprague De Camp years before anyone tried to debunk him

      Kind of like Poe getting his biography written posthumously by a guy who hated him and so we think he's a suicidal alcoholic

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >and so we think he's a suicidal alcoholic
        instead he was just a neurotic pedophile

        Goth Woody Allen

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Poe's great.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >except the vast majority of contemporary historians now completely deny this claim
      This is entirely untrue. You sound like a moron and a fascist who dislikes that your gay propaganda piece was criticized. 300 sucks, you suck, and I mean literally you suck wiener as in you are a closet gay.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        But enough about you

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >This is entirely untrue
        It's ENTIRELY true. The sources you pedophiles cherrypick (like Xenophon) even stress that the relationships were purely platonic and akin to a parent and child or two brothers.

  44. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Honestly 90s Morrison irl sounds like they might've been very annoying. That whole rock star persona thing, which shit talking elders is part of. I like Morrison's stuff and I remember getting annoyed by the whole persona

  45. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Morrison loves the artistry of comic books. Moore used to.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I never really got that feeling from Morrison.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Morrison loves the artistry of comic books.
      Not really. I think he's only really shined in this respect with his work with Frank Quitely, on Seven Soldiers, and on Multiversity.

  46. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Moore's been doing to "I revolutionized comics, nobody has made anything worthwhile since" shtick for what, at least thirty years now?

    I know interviews bait him into it but gods, what a boring old man.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Moore was still putting out comics semi-regularly until about 5 years ago. His criticisms of comics are usually about superhero comics by the big 2 specifically, and in terms of artistry and literary value, from the perspective of a huge snob like Moore, you can certainly round it off so that Marvel/DC have put out nothing or nearly nothing worth mentioning for decades. He's also a huge contrarian who just doesn't read cape comcis anymore so it's not like he'd know

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Moore actually has pretty normie taste.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Finding out that he was a fan of zombie Simpsons and Family Guy and not discerning at all when it comes to things that aren't related to capes was a bit of a shock.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I hate to admit it, but most popular media is better than comics, even on a lower tier.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Most of it's the same slop to me.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Then you're oblivious.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                To what?

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              This. Comics are made by a handful of people in a medium that doesn't pay well and isn't very respected, so the writing hires aren't all that talented. Moore is a rare case of someone with a modicum of talent that worked hard and very quickly became synonymous with good comics.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            He comes off as a massive pseud, so it's not that shocking.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Moore only shits on DC/Marvel capeshit regularly, he never had any issue with the other folks. Also the state of capeshit has been fricking dire since the 90s.

  47. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Moore is actually a great writer.

  48. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Because unlike the two morons, Grant actually enjoys superhero stuff. He doesn't think himself above them.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I think Moore loved superhero stuff at one point too, he just hates the nature of the beast.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        He was a pretty big cape fanboy, though he was never too happy with the industry itself. Moore is pretty much the reason Morrison is into capes.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Must be painful for him to know Morrison is better than him

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Moore is easily better than Morrison.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              That's a hard no from me, chief

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                That's too bad. You're wrong.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Incorrect.

  49. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I honestly think it's a bit.

  50. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous
  51. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Two Moore threads?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Why not?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Because I want MOORE than two of course.

  52. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    essentially if you don't write comics for literal 7 year olds, you won't make money in comics

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Or be Japanese in Japan.

  53. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    even doing dishwater numbers, Watchmen is still DC's second best selling graphic novel.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Combine the sales of the paperback and hardcover and it's #1.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      pretty grim for DC

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        At least they're not Marvel.
        >As for Marvel? Their very first appearance isn’t until all the way down at #557 with Spider-Punk (about 12k).

  54. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Much of the "feud" is a meme perpetuated by fans and comic news media.
    That said, Morrison likes to act like he would never do a mean deconstruction.
    Meanwhile Skrull Kill Krew and his Dan Dare comic are right there. You won't find anything meaner than the latter.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Much of the "feud" is a meme perpetuated by fans and comic news media.
      Sure, but Morrison stoked the flames early on.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >You won't find anything meaner than the latter.
      DARE was just the usual Thatcher Derangement Syndrome that was common in writers from the UK. I like how Milligan was one of the few nuanced voices.

  55. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The other Moore thread got deleted. I know they're kind of spammy in nature, but can they stop fricking deleting comics threads? We're barely hanging on over here.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      And it's always in the middle of a really good discussion. Actual discussion.

  56. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Maybe he was a c**t?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Probably.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Like Moore hasn't been his entire life?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Both have inferiority complexes and Moore is just an butthole besides that.

        He seems nice.

  57. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Having met Alan Moore and seen a bunch of his interviews, he is actually a kind and considerate person who barely raises his voice. The narratives around Moore have created this angry caricature. People who know him even say he is too nice. Morrison comes across as the inverse sometimes, his narrative makes him seem like a nice affable person but in person he comes across as quite abrasive.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I remember his blog from the early 00s, Grant's definitely way up his own ass.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      There was this YouTube interview with Alan a walking autist I'm subscribed to did recently, I haven't had the time to check it out yet but it seems cool

      ?feature=shared

  58. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Both have inferiority complexes and Moore is just an butthole besides that.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Moorwiener is probably the biggest butthole, followed by Morrison. Moore is an butthole, but he's the least assholish of the three.

  59. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Moore and moorwiener are students of ritualistic magic, and Morrison is too. But Morrisons magic is an opposing school of thought to moore/moorwiener.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Magic is gay as frick in every way. I can't imagine being a grown man and believing in this stupid shit.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Yeah, it's silly.

        ?si=so1pmjeAO5wTuv-6

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Cheeky dry banter to be honest

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            People don't understand his humour m8

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >no fun allowed!
        No, being obsessed over conformity, normality and idealogical purity in general is way, way gayer, literal homosexual.
        >and believing in this stupid shit.
        You believe in official narrative.

  60. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >two limeys hate a Celt
    News at 11.

  61. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Wizard stuff

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That's called magic.

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