When Starfire was introduced, Dick had already been a college student for years, and the title specifically de-emphasized the "teen" part. Except for Changeling/Beastboy, they were all 18+
>Why does DC hate Starfire so much?
Batman editorial wasn't using Dick Grayson while the Titans title was, so they thought they could have him marry an alien with laser hands who flies by making her hair longer.
Then they realized what was happening right before the wedding and said "What the frick is wrong with you? Dick Grayson needs to fit into cartoons and movies where aliens don't exist."
What actually happened is that the Batman editorial didn't want Dick Grayson because he was too silly to include in their serious, mature stories about a billionaire ninja detective with a rocket car, so they let the Teen Titans editorial have control over the character. Then Teen Titans became DC's most popular book for over a decade and the Batman editorial was left seething as they no longer called the shots on the character. Once they got their hands on the character again they started pretending that ~15 years of the character's publication history didn't happen, despite the modern Dick Grayson entirely being a product of 80s Teen Titans. So now we get Dick Grayson as his one true, pure, and perfect usage as DC's diet Coke version of Daredevil playing second fiddle to Batman.
Outside some of the earlier stories where Dick was still Robin the Titans did frick all with Dick for 10 years. It was a disaster. The Batman books saved his character from sinking with the entire Titans franchise.
Dick was a Titans mainstay for 30 years. If Batman editorial of the 70s and 80s had their way Dick would have never appeared in a Batman book ever again.
What actually happened is that the Batman editorial didn't want Dick Grayson because he was too silly to include in their serious, mature stories about a billionaire ninja detective with a rocket car, so they let the Teen Titans editorial have control over the character. Then Teen Titans became DC's most popular book for over a decade and the Batman editorial was left seething as they no longer called the shots on the character. Once they got their hands on the character again they started pretending that ~15 years of the character's publication history didn't happen, despite the modern Dick Grayson entirely being a product of 80s Teen Titans. So now we get Dick Grayson as his one true, pure, and perfect usage as DC's diet Coke version of Daredevil playing second fiddle to Batman.
That didn’t stop Dick Tracey Jr from marrying an alien.
Dick Tracey’s granddaughter has antennae.
Funny you mention that because its the go-to when it comes to me mentioning why Dick/Kori won't work longterm; Moon Maid fricking dies. Overtime Honeymoon Tracy stopped being drawn like a half-alien and is just an ethereal looking girl.
That's the fate of Dick/Kori. Kori would die and Babs get a black haired stepchild.
It's so funny to me that almost everyone prefers Dick and Kori together, but the actual ship DC pushes is DickBabs. And I'm fine with that honestly, the less ties Dick has with the shitty Titans franchise, the better.
"Almost everyone" is basically just old boomer comic fans who hate modern Titans anyway, and Titan cartoon fans who don't read comics. Its no use to pander to them.
Cute fan art of a character who isn’t put through the wringer every time a new writer wants to relive their childhood nostalgia is a good draw for people who are interested in story and art rather than drama and stagnation.
If any of them do follow the comics, they seem to just have the same taste as the old boomer fans anyway.
Titans Academy used Dick/Kori.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Titans Academy was a steaming pile of hot garbage, and it didn't even fully commit to Dick/Kori.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I'd say that it was more committed than Nightwing is to DickBabs if for no other reason than Taylor writing a very sterile relationship between Dick and Babs. Also it will never not amuse me that it makes Dick look like a total frickboi.
2 years ago
Anonymous
In the first issue and then they barely interacted and Starfire was apparently over him in a later issue. But Titans Academy was a terrible book and is another example of Dick being written horribly in the Titans.
>Cartoon fans like Mar'i >Requires to read Kingdom Come and a Titans storyline to know she even exist >"
Because frick aliens, everyone should hate them
usually titans toon fans who aren’t actually following comics"
2 years ago
Anonymous
Because frick aliens, everyone should hate them
Didn't mean to reply to you, my bad
2 years ago
Anonymous
They're zoomers watching the Titans HBO show. There's a screencap of a little girl who's supposedly Mar'i. Forgive the quality of the image, it's from Season 3, Episode 12.
2 years ago
Anonymous
They like Mari as a concept, not a character. There’s more fanart of Mari as a little girl or teenager than the grown woman she was in Kingdom Come.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Requires to read Kingdom Come and a Titans storyline to know she even exist
They just read wikis or random pages on twitter or tumblr.
Maybe if Dick and Babs had a cute AU kid, the ship would be more liked.
The only AU kid of theirs I can think of right now, is the one from Snyder's Last Knight on Earth, and she was far from remarkable.
DC doesn’t push Dick Babs lmao they don’t push any Nightwing relationships. They put Babs with Dick because it keeps him in Gotham and they don’t have any other options for him. Just like they put Dick with Kori in to keep him with Titans because they don’t have any other options for him.
>Sex positive woman with BIG FLOOFY 80's HAIR is bad.
I want to pet her floof as she slowly flies away, leaving a trail of hair I can reach until she's 50 feet in the air.
DC has become more reliant on Batman than ever and bat editorial and writers hate Kory for being Dick’s true first love and that their relationship is more well liked outside of comics fandom
Because Batman editorial and Batman/batfamily writers run DC, and the most they know about Starfire is either the naive alien trope from the 2003 cartoon or thinking she a alien bimbo bawd who stole Dick away from Babs. The amount of Dickbabs shippers who think they were a thing back in the 70s is way too high, so I wouldn't be shocked if some Batwriters think that too.
Dick hasn't been in a good Titans story in over 30 years, but Starfire fans desperately want him anchored to the Titans because her character is barely anything without him but it has been proven that being in the Titans now does nothing for Dick. I can't think of any good Dick Titans stories since like the late 80s.
Dick has been pushed back to appear in Titans related books for years now. There’s always some NTT revival going on due to fanboys having nostalgia for the Wolfman/Perez stuff.
He's been in Titans books on a regular basis outside the few years he wasn't in them when the New 52 happened. They were all awful. I'd say Dixon, Seeley, King, and Tomasi all had better Nightwing/Grayson stories than anything Titans related with Dick in that same time frame. Then the Dickbats era you had Morrison and Snyder have good Dick stories too. The Titans are just a wasteland for Dick since the late 80s.
When a character's personality is built around the concept of naivety, there is only so much that can ever be done with that character over time. Either they are perpetually the fish out of water which gets boring and nonsensical over the years, or they become wiser and then don't even have the innocence-angle to draw upon. Painting oneself into a corner from a characterization standpoint
Didio was afraid of his silver age leaguers looking old.
When he brought Dick’s friends back, Wally got HIC'd, Dick got Ric’d, Donna got turned into an alcoholic, and Roy got killed. ALL WITHIN A YEAR.
The hilarity of this cannot be understated: Didio let the Rebirth Titans book exist in relative peace for about 14 issues before going back to his old ways and he just did everything at once.
The JL looking 'old' is Batman's fault. There's no way that a mid 30s Batman could have all the sidekicks and proteges that he does.
And even if the JL looks 'old', so what? WW is immortal. MMH, Aquaman, Superman and Flash age slower than most people. Not sure if GL rings slow down aging or not, but age was never a factor with GLs.
A mid 40s -early 50s Batman fighting crime isn't unbelievable or farfetched considering all the crazy things that happen in the DC universe.
I'd argue it's also partly the Titans fault for being written more and more as straight up adults, completely ignoring the fact that they were supposed to be the young ones.
Like, the Titans generation shouldn't be getting married and having kids unless you want the generation right above them look like grandpas, because that's what they become if the younger ones have kids.
Wally is a completely different can of worms, since Barry was dead, they thought just having him be an adult felt appropriate, ignoring the implications that would have for his generation and the generation above them.
Also, didn't Donna get married and have a kid? And while I think it was a teenage pregnancy, Roy also got a kid, turning heroes like Diana and Ollie into grandpas.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Donna's kid turned out to Lord Chaos and got retconed via time shenanigans. Her husband was Wolfman's second (or first) self-insert depending on your POV.
Roy's daughter, Liam, got killed off for shock value during Cry For Justice. She recently got brought back as an amnesiac teen and Catwoman's sidekick. Father and daughter have yet to reunite.
2 years ago
Anonymous
The fact that they even had kids was the problem, and part of the reason they got retconned/killed.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Fans didn't have a problem with Liam being alive, she got done in by a spiteful(I assume because no rational person would think Cry For Justice was a good idea) editorial.
I'm more interested in how they'll handle the inevitable reunion, Liam's current age makes no sense based on what's been established.
Even in New Teen Titans, all of them but Terra and Gar WERE adults. They were all 18 and 19.
Dick was literally in college in the 70s. It was a big thing in the Batman comics because Bruce got empty nest syndrome and moved into his penthouse because of that.
Didio is just afraid of his childhood heroes being as old as or older than him.
>They were all 18 and 19.
That's not what I mean by adult, 18/19 is still technically a teenager, and that would fall in the very young adult category.
Batman on the other hand, lives in the nebulous age range of 30s/40s, that's what I mean by adult.
What I'm saying is that they never should've made the Titans grow up too much if they wanted to avoid this problem. >Didio is just afraid of his childhood heroes being as old as or older than him.
While I believe that's true, you gotta remember DC is a business, so I think it makes sense for them to not want their main heroes look like grandpas.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>18/19 is still technically a teenager, and that would fall in the very young adult category.
But they were treated as full fledged adults, with jobs, having adult conversations and worries. Young adults weren't coddled as much back then, this was before "adulting" was treated a sa cutesy joke, all the Titans from that generation have been written like adults for years >inb4 boomer accusation; I'm in my late 20's.
>so I think it makes sense for them to not want their main heroes look like grandpas.
Its silly because what a 50 year old is has changed immensely. Tom Cruise is 60 and still an action star. DC wants to keep Bruce little more than half that.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>But they were treated as full fledged adults, with jobs, having adult conversations and worries. Young adults weren't coddled as much back then, this was before "adulting" was treated a sa cutesy joke, all the Titans from that generation have been written like adults for years
And that's exactly the problem, the Titans weren't supposed to be adults, since their inception, they were meant to be "the young ones", portraying them as straight up adults clashed with the portrayals of heroes older than them. >Its silly because what a 50 year old is has changed immensely.
I'd argue 50 still sounds like old age to the average person, and maybe DC just wants to be extra careful.
what an ugly drawing, the cartoon looked better.
I love how utterly wrong you are.
boomer.
You don’t have to be a boomer to appreciate this beautiful art piece.
Frick off weeb
Fpwp
cringe
Whatever nobody did this I can tell she traced some Japanese porn comic and that she claims to be a pro-trans feminist.
were you dropped at birth?
FP is a homosexual
Successful character.
You mean a sexually free attractive female character?
Jesus i wonder why do the modern woke feminist industry hate a character like her.
>You mean a sexually free attractive female character?
The term you want is loose. she has the loosest slot in Vegas.
Has a relatively low body count.
What are you talking about? Out of all the Titans she's among the least fricked over.
No, they love her on Tumblr and Twitter.
they are called the "teen" titans.
just so you know, teens are 13-17
When Starfire was introduced, Dick had already been a college student for years, and the title specifically de-emphasized the "teen" part. Except for Changeling/Beastboy, they were all 18+
teens are 13-19
>Why does DC hate Starfire so much?
Batman editorial wasn't using Dick Grayson while the Titans title was, so they thought they could have him marry an alien with laser hands who flies by making her hair longer.
Then they realized what was happening right before the wedding and said "What the frick is wrong with you? Dick Grayson needs to fit into cartoons and movies where aliens don't exist."
What actually happened is that the Batman editorial didn't want Dick Grayson because he was too silly to include in their serious, mature stories about a billionaire ninja detective with a rocket car, so they let the Teen Titans editorial have control over the character. Then Teen Titans became DC's most popular book for over a decade and the Batman editorial was left seething as they no longer called the shots on the character. Once they got their hands on the character again they started pretending that ~15 years of the character's publication history didn't happen, despite the modern Dick Grayson entirely being a product of 80s Teen Titans. So now we get Dick Grayson as his one true, pure, and perfect usage as DC's diet Coke version of Daredevil playing second fiddle to Batman.
Outside some of the earlier stories where Dick was still Robin the Titans did frick all with Dick for 10 years. It was a disaster. The Batman books saved his character from sinking with the entire Titans franchise.
Dick was a Titans mainstay for 30 years. If Batman editorial of the 70s and 80s had their way Dick would have never appeared in a Batman book ever again.
That's because he didn't have a place anymore
Dick does nothing major in the Titans from 88 onward except getting a fakeout marriage. He was there to carry the book, that's it.
That didn’t stop Dick Tracey Jr from marrying an alien.
Dick Tracey’s granddaughter has antennae.
They also eventually dropped all that sci-fi and space shit.
Funny you mention that because its the go-to when it comes to me mentioning why Dick/Kori won't work longterm; Moon Maid fricking dies. Overtime Honeymoon Tracy stopped being drawn like a half-alien and is just an ethereal looking girl.
That's the fate of Dick/Kori. Kori would die and Babs get a black haired stepchild.
We need a Starfire and Joker comic where Starfire gets mad at the titans and falls into the arms of a killer clown.
Too sexually positive for modern sensitivities, if you think about it Zoomer became as prude as boomers in their own way.
She's a Titans character dude, and she dared get between Dick and Barbara's love I guess.
It's so funny to me that almost everyone prefers Dick and Kori together, but the actual ship DC pushes is DickBabs.
And I'm fine with that honestly, the less ties Dick has with the shitty Titans franchise, the better.
>almost everyone prefers Dick and Kori together
"Almost everyone" is basically just old boomer comic fans who hate modern Titans anyway, and Titan cartoon fans who don't read comics. Its no use to pander to them.
Call me crazy, but I've seen "zoomers" also vastly prefer Kori over Babs as Dick's girlfriend.
Mar'i usually has something to do with it.
Cute fan art of a character who isn’t put through the wringer every time a new writer wants to relive their childhood nostalgia is a good draw for people who are interested in story and art rather than drama and stagnation.
Again, usually titans toon fans who aren’t actually following comics. Night fire is basically a canon OC for them.
Titans Academy used Dick/Kori.
Titans Academy was a steaming pile of hot garbage, and it didn't even fully commit to Dick/Kori.
I'd say that it was more committed than Nightwing is to DickBabs if for no other reason than Taylor writing a very sterile relationship between Dick and Babs. Also it will never not amuse me that it makes Dick look like a total frickboi.
In the first issue and then they barely interacted and Starfire was apparently over him in a later issue. But Titans Academy was a terrible book and is another example of Dick being written horribly in the Titans.
>Cartoon fans like Mar'i
>Requires to read Kingdom Come and a Titans storyline to know she even exist
>"
usually titans toon fans who aren’t actually following comics"
Didn't mean to reply to you, my bad
They're zoomers watching the Titans HBO show. There's a screencap of a little girl who's supposedly Mar'i. Forgive the quality of the image, it's from Season 3, Episode 12.
They like Mari as a concept, not a character. There’s more fanart of Mari as a little girl or teenager than the grown woman she was in Kingdom Come.
>Requires to read Kingdom Come and a Titans storyline to know she even exist
They just read wikis or random pages on twitter or tumblr.
If any of them do follow the comics, they seem to just have the same taste as the old boomer fans anyway.
Maybe if Dick and Babs had a cute AU kid, the ship would be more liked.
The only AU kid of theirs I can think of right now, is the one from Snyder's Last Knight on Earth, and she was far from remarkable.
DC doesn’t push Dick Babs lmao they don’t push any Nightwing relationships. They put Babs with Dick because it keeps him in Gotham and they don’t have any other options for him. Just like they put Dick with Kori in to keep him with Titans because they don’t have any other options for him.
Sex positive woman with BIG FLOOFY 80's HAIR is bad. Just like how Marvel hates She-Hulk
>Sex positive woman with BIG FLOOFY 80's HAIR is bad.
I want to pet her floof as she slowly flies away, leaving a trail of hair I can reach until she's 50 feet in the air.
Because frick aliens, everyone should hate them
>Because frick aliens, everyone should hate them
So frick aliens, marry human?
Doesn't have a bat on her chest
DC has become more reliant on Batman than ever and bat editorial and writers hate Kory for being Dick’s true first love and that their relationship is more well liked outside of comics fandom
Because Batman editorial and Batman/batfamily writers run DC, and the most they know about Starfire is either the naive alien trope from the 2003 cartoon or thinking she a alien bimbo bawd who stole Dick away from Babs. The amount of Dickbabs shippers who think they were a thing back in the 70s is way too high, so I wouldn't be shocked if some Batwriters think that too.
Dick hasn't been in a good Titans story in over 30 years, but Starfire fans desperately want him anchored to the Titans because her character is barely anything without him but it has been proven that being in the Titans now does nothing for Dick. I can't think of any good Dick Titans stories since like the late 80s.
For starters, Dick hasn't been on the Teen Titans since 1993. Second, name the good Nightwing stories in the past 30 years.
Dick has been pushed back to appear in Titans related books for years now. There’s always some NTT revival going on due to fanboys having nostalgia for the Wolfman/Perez stuff.
He's shown up in Titans which has had 3 volumes totaling about about 90 issues since 1999.
He's been in Titans books on a regular basis outside the few years he wasn't in them when the New 52 happened. They were all awful. I'd say Dixon, Seeley, King, and Tomasi all had better Nightwing/Grayson stories than anything Titans related with Dick in that same time frame. Then the Dickbats era you had Morrison and Snyder have good Dick stories too. The Titans are just a wasteland for Dick since the late 80s.
When a character's personality is built around the concept of naivety, there is only so much that can ever be done with that character over time. Either they are perpetually the fish out of water which gets boring and nonsensical over the years, or they become wiser and then don't even have the innocence-angle to draw upon. Painting oneself into a corner from a characterization standpoint
The real question is why does DC hate the Titans so much?
Didio was afraid of his silver age leaguers looking old.
When he brought Dick’s friends back, Wally got HIC'd, Dick got Ric’d, Donna got turned into an alcoholic, and Roy got killed. ALL WITHIN A YEAR.
The hilarity of this cannot be understated: Didio let the Rebirth Titans book exist in relative peace for about 14 issues before going back to his old ways and he just did everything at once.
The JL looking 'old' is Batman's fault. There's no way that a mid 30s Batman could have all the sidekicks and proteges that he does.
And even if the JL looks 'old', so what? WW is immortal. MMH, Aquaman, Superman and Flash age slower than most people. Not sure if GL rings slow down aging or not, but age was never a factor with GLs.
A mid 40s -early 50s Batman fighting crime isn't unbelievable or farfetched considering all the crazy things that happen in the DC universe.
I'd argue it's also partly the Titans fault for being written more and more as straight up adults, completely ignoring the fact that they were supposed to be the young ones.
Like, the Titans generation shouldn't be getting married and having kids unless you want the generation right above them look like grandpas, because that's what they become if the younger ones have kids.
The Titans never really felt like adults even when DC tried to push them as adults. The only one who successfully made it to adulthood was Wally
Wally is a completely different can of worms, since Barry was dead, they thought just having him be an adult felt appropriate, ignoring the implications that would have for his generation and the generation above them.
Also, didn't Donna get married and have a kid? And while I think it was a teenage pregnancy, Roy also got a kid, turning heroes like Diana and Ollie into grandpas.
Donna's kid turned out to Lord Chaos and got retconed via time shenanigans. Her husband was Wolfman's second (or first) self-insert depending on your POV.
Roy's daughter, Liam, got killed off for shock value during Cry For Justice. She recently got brought back as an amnesiac teen and Catwoman's sidekick. Father and daughter have yet to reunite.
The fact that they even had kids was the problem, and part of the reason they got retconned/killed.
Fans didn't have a problem with Liam being alive, she got done in by a spiteful(I assume because no rational person would think Cry For Justice was a good idea) editorial.
I'm more interested in how they'll handle the inevitable reunion, Liam's current age makes no sense based on what's been established.
Even in New Teen Titans, all of them but Terra and Gar WERE adults. They were all 18 and 19.
Dick was literally in college in the 70s. It was a big thing in the Batman comics because Bruce got empty nest syndrome and moved into his penthouse because of that.
Didio is just afraid of his childhood heroes being as old as or older than him.
>They were all 18 and 19.
That's not what I mean by adult, 18/19 is still technically a teenager, and that would fall in the very young adult category.
Batman on the other hand, lives in the nebulous age range of 30s/40s, that's what I mean by adult.
What I'm saying is that they never should've made the Titans grow up too much if they wanted to avoid this problem.
>Didio is just afraid of his childhood heroes being as old as or older than him.
While I believe that's true, you gotta remember DC is a business, so I think it makes sense for them to not want their main heroes look like grandpas.
>18/19 is still technically a teenager, and that would fall in the very young adult category.
But they were treated as full fledged adults, with jobs, having adult conversations and worries. Young adults weren't coddled as much back then, this was before "adulting" was treated a sa cutesy joke, all the Titans from that generation have been written like adults for years
>inb4 boomer accusation; I'm in my late 20's.
>so I think it makes sense for them to not want their main heroes look like grandpas.
Its silly because what a 50 year old is has changed immensely. Tom Cruise is 60 and still an action star. DC wants to keep Bruce little more than half that.
>But they were treated as full fledged adults, with jobs, having adult conversations and worries. Young adults weren't coddled as much back then, this was before "adulting" was treated a sa cutesy joke, all the Titans from that generation have been written like adults for years
And that's exactly the problem, the Titans weren't supposed to be adults, since their inception, they were meant to be "the young ones", portraying them as straight up adults clashed with the portrayals of heroes older than them.
>Its silly because what a 50 year old is has changed immensely.
I'd argue 50 still sounds like old age to the average person, and maybe DC just wants to be extra careful.
Late 40s -early 50s Batman makes more sense.