These videos of him fricking around in his back yard really didn't age well at all. How long ago did he film that, over a decade? Over a decade and still no book?
lmao you guys are fricking moronic. that's not him, that's some random fat guy they hired for a skit on Conan or something, if grrm did those jumps he would immediately have a heart attack and die on the spot
These videos of him fricking around in his back yard really didn't age well at all. How long ago did he film that, over a decade? Over a decade and still no book?
I thought Preston Jacob's Winds of Winter fan fiction was terrible until I read his depiction of the Golden Company versus the Reach knights outside Storm's End.
Surprisingly passable as GRRM's own work honestly.
The problem is he had prophecies in the start, only to upend them for funsies. His whole shtick is subverting expectations. He has nothing left to subvert except to make a shit ending at this point.
No, he said himself that if you set up that the butler killed someone, like in a murder mystery, in the end it will be the butler who did it, you can't change it because people realized it was the butler. There have been numerous prophecies that have been fulfilled.
He also openly stated that he's seen someone somewhere on the internet correctly predict the entire ending, wholesale. Still not changing it
Thanks for not being moronic, GRRM
This will shock you, but there exists a sizeable portion of fiction consoomers, particularly literature consoomers, who are totally one-note obsessed with the idea of a prophecy and they will never even look twice at any work that doesn't contain prophecies
Detective novel? No prophecy, not reading that. Epic fantasy series about dragons and sorcerers and time manipulation? OHEMGEE I CAN'T WAIT TO SEE HOW THE TIME MANIPULATION ITNERACTS WITH THE PROPHECY!!!!!!!
Some people aren't looking for entertainment at all. They're looking for a prophecy, and this is how they get their fix. It's kind of pathetic when you start to notice this.
yeah i relize that, dont get me wrong i love those games but frick me do i hate the way it tells the story mostly because it barely tells you anything plus most of it is head canon. what sucks is that other games for some reason copy this kind of "story telling" for example blasphemous, great game, but i have no fricking clue what is going on, there is a bunch of items with entire paragrpahs of story, could not give a single frick about them because they are talking about people that i havent met and probably wont ever meet.
>"Do not engage with fromhomosexuals, they think having barely any story makes a game have a great story" >I need to have every piece of story spoon fed to me because i cant interpret anything for myself!
>Truth is the tv show finale was the ending he wrote and everybody hated it.
There are numerous characters alive in the books and dead in the show. There is literally no way it can be the ending because things are so dramatically different at this point.
Bro just face facts, tell me honestly, that in a different reality where the general audience thought this ending we have is good. Tell me George wouldn't take sole credit for that ending if people liked it instead.
I'm sure no matter how shit George's ending is it makes more sense in context. For instance, if the White Walkers still lose in a single battle, maybe it's because of the new pact theory and they just retreat beyond the Wall. Maybe Dany going fricking insane was supposed to take an entire season or Bran really was supposed to ward her. GoT's ending was so shit I seriously doubt a functional identical ending with A Song of Ice and Fire's plot beats instead of Game of Throne's could possibly be even half as shit. That's like comparing TROS to TLJ. No matter how bad it is, it's not so determined to be shit that it gets downright experimental with it.
If it was done well and fleshed out properly I don’t see how it could be bad. Weren’t most people predicting Danny was gonna go nuts anyway? It’s literally in her vision from the first book. Normalgays praised the show up until season 8 but the entire show shat the bed from season 5 and on. Danny going crazy is like the least of the problems with the story.
The show had deviated so far from the books that honestly the ending that George had in mind doesn’t make any sense. In my opinion the show should’ve had a different ending.
Not to mention D&D had pretty much checked out after S6 and wanted to be done with it. Which is why many consider the S6 to be the true final season.
Yeah people forget George isnt some based genius writer. He's a fat liberal whose just good at writing medieval characters, he doesn't actually like the characters for the reasons you like them and that ending was 100% the cliffnotes version he put forward.
He also copied some of England's actual history but the real events don't end in a super cool way involving ice demons so he has no idea how to finish it in a cool way.
This is definitely it. I also believe however that the show ending was more rushed and the book ending would've been a bit better/more interesting even if it had the same events.
Yeah, this is pretty much it. Sure some details would be different but the ones people are actually mad about (Jon, Dany, Bran) were clearly going to be the same even if done better.
...that still makes no sense in that context. Its a fact that the TV series drastically departed from the events of the books after season 4, its impossible that that was the ending GRRM wrote for the books. What don't you understand?
3 months ago
Anonymous
Be honest, do you really believe the fat frick wouldn't take sole credit had it been a massive success instead?
Yes the work deviated, I guarantee you they didn't do shit without Martin's involvement in any way.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Even if that’s true, if George Lucas tried to tell someone circa Star Wars what he “planned” for Return of the Jedi, the end result would still have been completely different
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Yeah, but these oranges tho!
I don't give a frick about Lucas.
We are not talking about Lucas.
Oh, so you really don't know? Its common knowledge that George stopped getting involved in the TV series around season 4 or 5. He couldn't take any credit for it even if he wanted. And are you really suggesting that he wrote two different endings, one for the TV series and another for his book series? lol
lmao, even.
Stop sucking off your messiah and open your eyes. The fat frick would have happily taken credit, its not beneath him to do such things. Many writers do so they are not infallible saints.
3 months ago
Anonymous
so what if he took credit? Its still not the ending hes written for the books. He would be lying if he took credit, the show ending was purely the brainchild of D&D
3 months ago
Anonymous
This. It's abundantly obvious if you paid attention to the behind the scenes and interviews from everyone involved. D&D are hacks.
3 months ago
Anonymous
That's a cope.
We’re talking about writers and their propensity to be full of shit
I addressed that in my comment as well.
I don't think George is infallible, far from that. I think he wrote himself into a dead end and has no idea how to properly untie all the knots to make the last two books possible. That being said, its ridiculous to blame him for the TV ending, or even the later 4 seasons for that matter.
The tv ending might have not been so bad had they had time to establish and flesh it out a bit more. It's just they dropped the ball hard, the changes were radical and completely against the original intentions of several characters. They just didn't have the time or the money.
This. It's abundantly obvious if you paid attention to the behind the scenes and interviews from everyone involved. D&D are hacks.
The show is only as good as it's writer.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>That's a cope.
No you are coping >The show is only as good as it's writer.
And its writers are D&D
I can't see how it's the same as the show. The 'white walkers' are speechless ice zombies where as the books they are elf like beings with a bizarre language and led by a pale lady. Can't see how they'd be created by the children with a motivation of 'lol kill everything'
>led by a pale lady
They arent led by a pale lady, thats just an in-universe myth. Bran sees something he calls the "heart of winter" and Melisandre keeps talking about the "Great Other" so it sounds more like they're led by an evil god or ice cthulhu
3 months ago
Anonymous
We’re talking about writers and their propensity to be full of shit
3 months ago
Anonymous
I don't think George is infallible, far from that. I think he wrote himself into a dead end and has no idea how to properly untie all the knots to make the last two books possible. That being said, its ridiculous to blame him for the TV ending, or even the later 4 seasons for that matter.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>he wrote himself into a dead end and has no idea how to properly untie all the knots to make the last two books possible
that about sums it up for Martin
he's just a bad writer
3 months ago
Anonymous
Oh, so you really don't know? Its common knowledge that George stopped getting involved in the TV series around season 4 or 5. He couldn't take any credit for it even if he wanted. And are you really suggesting that he wrote two different endings, one for the TV series and another for his book series? lol
I can't see how it's the same as the show. The 'white walkers' are speechless ice zombies where as the books they are elf like beings with a bizarre language and led by a pale lady. Can't see how they'd be created by the children with a motivation of 'lol kill everything'
Jon Snow enters the throne room to find Daenerys sitting on the Iron Throne. Jon commands Drogon to blast Daenerys. Drogon recognizing Jon’s authority as the true king obeys his command. Daenerys is encased in the steel of the Iron Throne like Han Solo in The Empire Strikes Back. Two hundred years pass by. Westeros is at war with Essos and winning. A Red Witch and Faceless Man man sneak into the Red Keep. The Red Witch uses a flame kept inside of a lantern from Drogon the Last Dragon to revive Daenerys. The descendant of Jon Snow must now confront his great aunt Daenerys.
If he wanted to finish the books he could hire a ghostwriter/small team thereof, and provide plot direction & editing
Let them do the bulk of the actual writing and he manages and guides
I feel like that's pretty obvious. Series is about how all power is corrupt or corrupts, and ultra violence is unsustainable and ultimately socially defeating (bug it's fun to write about).
Turns out in the end the dramatic war of Kings accomplished nothing except the equivalent of the magic deep state illuminati playing them all for saps and running things from the shadows. Which will probably be for everyone's lack of benefit since the 3 eyed raven is heavily coded evil and demonic. It has GRRM all over it. And actually think he could pull it off if he was younger and still had juice in him.
the fact that the books ending will hit the same general points of the tv series says nothing about the quality of the writing, in fact the plot could have worked even in the show if it had been fleshed out with like a dozen more episodes instead of being so rushed
I got so sick of waiting, I just started writing my own ensemble cast epic fantasy schlock. I'm a novice writer with no credentials, experience, or contacts, but I guarantee my entire trilogy will be published and completed before Winds.
Based. I wrote a ya romantasy. Took me about 5 years and 6 or 7 top to bottom rewrites. I also don't have any formal credentials but I'm happy with it.
tl;dr hunks of ancient eldritch tech fall from the moon's ring onto a late medieval/early gunpowder tech planet full of people who don't understand it (not even the reader will), which causes problems.
It's a mishmash of all the things I like to see. >gunpowder >autismal worldbuilding with a bunch of different cultures that clash with one another >muscle b***hes >humans only >body horror
>muscle b***hes
I would very much like to read these anons
Based. I wrote a ya romantasy. Took me about 5 years and 6 or 7 top to bottom rewrites. I also don't have any formal credentials but I'm happy with it.
tl;dr hunks of ancient eldritch tech fall from the moon's ring onto a late medieval/early gunpowder tech planet full of people who don't understand it (not even the reader will), which causes problems.
It's a mishmash of all the things I like to see. >gunpowder >autismal worldbuilding with a bunch of different cultures that clash with one another >muscle b***hes >humans only >body horror
I'm planning my own fantasy story but holy frick it's annoying that I find it easier to do creative writing exercises than to fricking hunker down and write my phd dissertation
he did; what you saw in the series are ideas he shared with the couple of morons and since everybody hates it the fat frick will save face dying and leaving that shit like it is
He won't finish it because he can't.
He wrote himself into a corner and isn't capable of sorting it out, so he stopped and started a series of new projects instead.
this, he thinks his work somehow is supposed to translate into politics, according to his depressing blogs. he is also clearly worried about a shitty ending hence the rewrites.
The shitty last few seasons of GoT were based on his his cliff notes for how he planned to end the series. I think when he saw how poorly it was received it mindbroke him.
if the show had made more episodes and provided more context and time and actually follow through with the abandoned plot lines then maybe it wouldn't have been as shitty
D&D were rushing to get to their star wars show. They were sick and tired of Game of Thrones, but also didn't want to give the show to anyone else. And they had their next show lined up waiting for them. Then they did such a shit job, their star wars show got canceled.
3 months ago
Anonymous
I’d say it’s unbelievable how badly they botched it but I recall finding out one of those morons is just a trust fund nepotism baby and responsible for that awful Wolverine movie where Deadpool had no mouth.
I’ve been thinking of myself as a writer in my head for over five years but the only story I ever finished and shared with others was about 8,000 words.
For me it’s just I’m bad at writing scenes. Lore building is fun, sometimes think up a plot and the plot progression is neat, but whenever I sit down and write a scene it’s always awkward I don’t know how to end it or what exactly I’m working towards with the dialogue
For me it’s just I’m bad at writing scenes. Lore building is fun, sometimes think up a plot and the plot progression is neat, but whenever I sit down and write a scene it’s always awkward I don’t know how to end it or what exactly I’m working towards with the dialogue
I understand your apprehension, anon.
I myself have been sitting on a Tiny Tim book for years now, but I think it’s going to release soon despite life doing everything it can to stop me.
I just need to reach out some feelers to some publishers I know.
It's crazy that there are supposed to be another two books after Winds of Winter. It's insane to think about it. He shit on his entire legacy, just like Joseph Anderson.
He wrote himself into a corner. Whilst he may have tried at first, he quickly stopped when he got distracted with the fame the show brought and deliberately distracted himself with other projects rather than put in the actual focus required to move the series forward. At some point he probably realised he was avoided it, although at that point he realised he just doesn't give a shit - and his ego won't allow someone else to finish his series. Gene Wolfe is the actual American Tolkien.
I like Wolfe but i have reservations comparing any of these guys to Tolkien. The legacy is like Michael Jordan. Wolfe is great though. Dangerously based.
Apparently, GRRM said he doesn't want anyone finishing the series if he were to die, although who can say if his estate will respect that wish. GRRM may shock everyone and live another 20 years. In any case, is there even going to be any real hype for a new ASOIAF novel? It has been that long, people have seen the ending of GOT, and if GRRM is the one to deliver it is not as if the series would have been completed so the fans will just be in a situation no different to what they are now.
>Apparently, GRRM said he doesn't want anyone finishing the series if he were to die
This won't mean shit the moment he kicks the bucket. The publisher is going to find someone to finish the books before his body is cold and there's frick all his seething ghost can do about it.
>doesn't work on his main series >writes a 736 page - irrelevant to the main series but, which only has any interest due to the main series - background lore book
I don't get it.
It really hasn't. A FEW of the main beats have been hit, while tons more were missing and abandoned. And it really is never about the destination, but the journey. And the journey was extremely bungled in the show. If he put out anything that was similar quality to the previous books, then fans would be overjoyed. Which doesn't seem like a tall order for him to do since he already has all the necessary ideas and plotlines to achieve the finish he planned. No one is expecting them to somehow be 10x better than all previous novels and come up with brilliant new twists no one ever saw coming in decades of thinking about them.
everyone that says "he can't" is making shit up.
If he couldn't why would he go infront of cameras and audiences again and again and outright say that the opposite is true?
If he really couldn't all he has to say "its fricked"
Sales of the current books would drop if he came out and said "I can't finish it". There could also be legal problems with his publisher if he flat out said no to completing the series.
Because nobody gives a shit about anything else he does other than ASOIAF. If he admits that he won't finish, his book sales will drop horribly, and his reputation will be in the shitter.
He told the publisher in the original pitch for Game of Thrones that he loses interest in writing a story when he knows the ending. And HBO made him sketch an outline for the ending. It's Joever
Yea I think you and others are spot on. They ran the show till the end at HBO regardless of how much input he had and it didn't land gracefully. That's a hard act to follow since it would be compared to the show.
'm convinced George already finished Winds like 4 years ago and is just sitting on it because he's not happy, he's probably re-read it like 500 times in the last year alone and has literal manuscripts of varying sizes to swap into the story, he probably even has two stacks of paper that are essentially two different endings that he can't decide on, approximately 80 pages vs 134 pages
He lost all motivation after everyone panned the TV series ending knowing that nobody liked the idea of Sansa ruling an independent North, Bran randomly becoming King, and Daenerys dying.
Okay I'm taking a second look at the map and it's clearly all a joke.
Pretty fricking good though lmao >The Dothraki [thing] scattered all over the world >Lands of [time] [season] all over the place
love it
Dothraki thing is because there is a huge steppe/grassland area called the Dothraki Sea
Lands of time season is because in the far north there is a region called the Lands of Always Winter, where the evil ice elves come from
If you look at his writing production over his entire career you'll notice he only wrote when he was hungry or in danger of being hungry. Now that he's fully established there is no reason for him to keep going. It's too much work.
I've written 6 screenplays in this time and even more if i'd actually get my ass to it.
What the frick is wrong with him? I'd kill if i could just pitch everything i finish.
He's fat. He's always been fat. And mind, he comes from a working class family, so he might've been a bit malnutritioned as a child. And he still got fat by his 20's. And you don't just randomly get fat. It takes effort, you need to continuously ingest more calories than you can spend. Meaning, he's gluttonous. Meaning, he's prone to indulgence. And when such a person become extremely rich, as really did after he got the tv show deal, not to mention the popularity that came with it - it's very easy to let yourself go. Especially at his age.
Like Patrick Rothfuss he realised that he doesn't have a way to actually finish the story so is just going to run out the clock until people stop asking or he dies.
Endings are the easiest thing ever. Just have the main characters win. Or if you're writing a sad story have them die. It's really not complicated. This is what Rothfuss doesn't understand. The planning doesn't matter. As a writer stories don't have to be perfect they have to make money
I think the problem with the Kingkiller "trilogy" was that he wrote WAY too much story into the first two books to finish it off in three books, basically the first steps on the heroes journey but set the narration in a time well after the events of the books were set leading the reader to believe that shit loads more stuff happened between the beginning and end.
Ironically he should have just written like Jim Butcher and just churned out book after book until people just got bored and fricked off of their own accord while making money hand over fist in the process.
I think the problem with the Kingkiller "trilogy" was that he wrote WAY too much story into the first two books to finish it off in three books, basically the first steps on the heroes journey but set the narration in a time well after the events of the books were set leading the reader to believe that shit loads more stuff happened between the beginning and end.
Ironically he should have just written like Jim Butcher and just churned out book after book until people just got bored and fricked off of their own accord while making money hand over fist in the process.
What's so good about Kingkiller anyway?
All I hear about it secondhand is that it's about a gary stu who fricks every woman he sees and wins "but the prose is flowery and that's what makes it popular" and all defenses about being a gary stu are met with "he's an unreliable narrator"
Because he's a contrarian. Literally the entire series and his logic and his interviews are just a contrarian trying to be edgy. So when a bunch of people didn't like the ending to the show (which 100% is the actual ending to the books, he gave them notes on what happens) he threw his hands in the air and went FINE YOU CAN'T HATE ME BECAUSE I HATE YOU like a petulant Cinemaphile user
if you look at careful breakdowns of his progress based on his own words, he basically did nothing for 5-8 years and this was way before the show ended.
GRRM writes his books in a super complex way that midwits will never be able to grasp. It’s not “A leads to B and then C happens” it’s more like “A leads to B but actually if you read carefully there’s a passage in book 2 which can be retroactively applied to what’s happening in book 5 which paints the situation so differently that it’s like an entirely new story, and C happening was a red herring”
He’s writing his books to be decoded by high IQ people for decades to come. That takes time and constant re-writing.
>his writing is so High IQ fans figured out the entire ending with jon being azhor ahai as well as a secret targaryan, with it alluding to "a song of ice and fire"
that's quite insane, it's so high iq you really can't predict anything. cercei won't be killed by arya, sansa definitely won't use baelish as a political bargaining chip and jaime DEFINITELY won't die keeping an oath, really need to rack your brain to think about how this all ends
lol Martin is the biggest fraud in the history of literature
overcomplicated plots and overly long, excruciatingly descriptive scenes aren't a sign of brilliance
he had some good ideas and the discipline to expand on them on paper
but he doesn't really know how to develop a story from start to finish which is why you'll never see another book of his before he croaks
plot twists are just devices to move the story forward, but he keeps using them over and over again as if they're means to their own end to elicit ooohs and aaaahs from the hapless reader
he was lucky the series was far superior in quality than his shitty books, when it's usually the other way around
>overcomplicated plots and overly long, excruciatingly descriptive scenes aren't a sign of brilliance
What the frick are you talking about? Is ASOIAF the only book series you've ever read? Go read Cormac McCarthy and then come back to tell me how GRRM has ''excruciatingly descriptive scenes''.
There's no satisfying ending that could be written so the best thing is to leave it open-ended and up to the imagination. Be glad he's not finishing the story.
Even if he did, there's still A Dream of Spring. Our best hope was the show, but he dropped out of it during season 4, so it over... or is it? One could feed the books to a decent AI to shart out Winds AND Spring! Is a foolproof plan.
People are still pulling this card when it's one of the biggest literary franchises in existence. If it was so easy they'd be doing it every other year.
>If it was so easy they'd be doing it every other year
That's not how it works, popularity is not always built on complexity
For example, she might have thought about a world that is more appealing to a bigger demographic, that doesn't make that world harder to write or take longer to put on page when it has already been thought.Mass appeal is also not always a consequence of quality. I'm not saying she's completely talentless, yet you are defending against this argument nobody has made.
Yeah, that was hilarious. It was like fate itself was telling him to hurry the frick up. >"lock me into a cabin with nothing but a type writer if I don't have it finished for the 2020 convention" >2020 lockdowns happen >Uhh yes there was some progress in 2020, but less progress in 2021 so please stop asking about the progress
>I know, I know, for many of you out there, only one of those projects matters. I am sorry for you. They ALL matter to me. Yes, of course I am still working on THE WINDS OF WINTER. I have stated that a hundred times in a hundred venues, having to restate it endlessly is just wearisome. I made a lot of progress on WINDS in 2020, and less in 2021… but “less” is not “none.” The world of Westeros, the world of A SONG OF ICE & FIRE, is my number one priority, and will remain so until the story is told. But Westeros has become bigger than THE WINDS OF WINTER, or even A SONG OF ICE & FIRE.
The World of Westeros (i,e, the tv shows) are more important to him now than the main book series. He later switched his tune in order to hype up HOTD, but predictably he hasn't actually done work on the main series since 2022 (he has admitted so if you pay attention), and likely hasn't done any significant work on the main series since 2020. He really just wants to be an ideas guy for TV now.
Furthermore, I would expect a vague but optimistic update from George on Winds now that he needs to get people to watch HOTD season 2. Remember that he is probably lying.
how does hyping TWoW add hype for HoTD? nothing in twow will have any bearing on hotd. its like hyping a batman comic for the new superman movie coming out
>I know, I know, for many of you out there, only one of those projects matters. I am sorry for you. They ALL matter to me. Yes, of course I am still working on THE WINDS OF WINTER. I have stated that a hundred times in a hundred venues, having to restate it endlessly is just wearisome.
Hopefully people peck and scratch and make every convention for him insufferable, by constantly asking where the frick the next book is, until he's dead and burning in his grave. Reminding him forever that he's a lazy piece of dog shit is what this fat homosexual deserves
>Of course his HBO wranglers made him paddle back and claim Winds is his number 1 priority when HotD came out
Probably more his publishers, they could literally sue him if he openly stated he’s not gonna finish the book and doesn’t care anymore
Right?
They're all absolutely certain they're right, unable to be convinced they're wrong and happy to do the most appalling violence, murder torture and rape to prosecute that certainty
Now he's surprised that people in the culture he has had a major influence on are also filled with mad certainty and capable of literally anything against people they disagree with?
>They're all absolutely certain they're right, unable to be convinced they're wrong and happy to do the most appalling violence, murder torture and rape to prosecute that certainty
That's a gross exaggeration that only applies to some characters
That's basically every major character, except like Jamie
3 months ago
Anonymous
Jon is not happy to torture and be violent, he reluctantly some times does it.
He also literally learns he was wrong about the wildlings during his joruney and learns that not all of his enemies need to be evil and peace can be made with them.
We are not talking about 2 nobodies, but 2 MAJOR pov characters. Add to that characters that are just good like Sam and Brienne. People greatly overplay how evil martin's characters are all the times, when in reality the books are quite optimistic about redemption at many times
3 months ago
Anonymous
>People greatly overplay how evil martin's characters are all the times
They're all totally self-serving and the only time they display altruism (including when that altruism costs them) is in order to act out their own image of themselves as the good guy. Even their kindness to others is selfish, cynical and based on narcissism and the need to be better than their enemies.
He's one of the most cynical people in the world and his works reflect that.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Jon changes too yeah, still his mindset remains the same being just.
>Add to that characters that are just good like Sam and Brienne.
The point wasn't good characters it was characters being uncompromising to their worldview. They're good but they still fit this bill.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Apologies! I'll amend that statement: All POV characters except a tiny handful are totally certain of their own rightness and unable to perceive any form or shape of evidence that might contradiction that total certainty
The only time doubts enter most of these characters' minds is when they are questioning whether or not they are acting in the most expedient way to make sure everyone that thinks they are wrong ends up raped to death
>People greatly overplay how evil martin's characters are all the times
They're all totally self-serving and the only time they display altruism (including when that altruism costs them) is in order to act out their own image of themselves as the good guy. Even their kindness to others is selfish, cynical and based on narcissism and the need to be better than their enemies.
He's one of the most cynical people in the world and his works reflect that.
What about Tyrion, he changes into worse, then Penny makes him doubt himself in book 5
How is Jon self serving? How is Jaime self serving when he does good which would only make him look weak and ruin his established ruthless reputation?
What kind of characters in fiction doubt themselves so fricking much? I don't remember aragorn ever thinking "maybe we should join sauron".
You guys hold up George to standards no other creator has ever been held up to, what fricking work of fiction does characters and their worldview so much better for ALL povs and they ALL change their fricking minds mid series?
There is some criticism to be levied to the series, but these kinds of posts seem always like the worst kind of mental gymnastics
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Tyrion
Is hungry for power and stepping out of his dad's shadow. >Self serving
This whole point starting from George b***hing about how his writings never changed anyone's minds. I enjoyed ASOIAF but how it doesn't exactly change worldviews or minds, more so it puts a bunch of flawed characters up and lets you choose who's cause you relate with the most. Which is why it's weird to see him write "I could've changed votes".
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Is hungry for power and stepping out of his dad's shadow.
Yes, and he changes and doubts constantly. >This whole point starting from George b***hing about how his writings never changed anyone's minds. I enjoyed ASOIAF but how it doesn't exactly change worldviews or minds, more so it puts a bunch of flawed characters up and lets you choose who's cause you relate with the most. Which is why it's weird to see him write "I could've changed votes"
I don't see why you think grey characters can't change minds
Dotsoyevski has made a whole career out of making psychotic social reject protagonists to make a point of introspection to make people change their minds about themselves and morality.
What kind of story "changes people's minds" then?
The reason asoiaf doesn't change people's minds is because it's completely unrelated to moral conflicts that can relate to current politics. The conflicts the characters live are so removed to what might make people vote blue or red that I don't see why he thought they would change anyone's votes. Grey characters don't have anything to do with it.
3 months ago
Anonymous
The only mental gymnastics going on here is trying to find ways to believe that a cast of explicitly shitty people from a fictional world where only shitty people exist are somehow not shitty
Let's see another handspring champ
3 months ago
Anonymous
But you already conceded there are not only shitty people
You are just backpedalling to your already disproven argument kek
Apologies! I'll amend that statement: All POV characters except a tiny handful are totally certain of their own rightness and unable to perceive any form or shape of evidence that might contradiction that total certainty
The only time doubts enter most of these characters' minds is when they are questioning whether or not they are acting in the most expedient way to make sure everyone that thinks they are wrong ends up raped to death
Because he's endlessly seething about Tolkien and at the moment GRRM looks like a complete and utter joke compared to Tolkien. Couldn't finish his series and is decades late, and the tv show based on the series was atrociously bad.
The best case scenario at this point is he dies and his estate hires Kevin J Anderson to write several decades worth of fanfiction to fill in the gaps.
Everyone who recommended me those stupid books and show is a fat childless loser that gets older and older. I feel better about my own life thinking about them waiting for a book that is the same age as my son.
Oh the book is already finished, he just won't release it, out of spite, because if he did, he would be giving the toxic, sexist, racist, mysoginistic, radical far right extremist, white supremacist manbaby terrorists what they want.
At this point, him releasing his book would be a political statement that would get him canceled.
If he has writer's block, why doesn't he just say "frick it" and flood the setting with White Walkers? It's thematicaly appropriate for them to intrude at any point in the story; there's no reason why any of the plotlines have to progress to a certain point to be "ready" for a catastrophe which specifically exists in the story to be something that no one is prepared for.
Few reasons I thought up of. He either has absolutely no creativity beyond GOT. If he finishes this series he will have no more relevancy and books to make.
"How many children did Scarlett O'Hara have? Three, in the novel. One, in the movie. None, in real life: she was a fictional character, she never existed. The show is the show, the books are the books; two different tellings of the same story." - George R. R. Martin
I smile and get up with a god damn pep in my step thinking about how fricking everyone I knew hounded me to watch GoT, how I would love the trope subversion since I liked reading and playing fantasy tabletop. All for it to come crumbling down, they won't even acknowledge the show existing.
>Be me >At my wagie job >Boss comes up and dumps 20+ years of pay on my desk in cash >Tells me to get back to work
Hmm lets see do I stay at my desk finishing up mindless reports for the next several years or should I buy a yacht and some blow and never go back to work again
That's fine, but if you're an author with some modicum of self respect and a wish to ensure your legacy remains somewhat, you'd want to finish at least the series and coast on even more money
You could even argue that it’s false advertising. Nobody picks up a series under the assumption that the author will one day decide to say frick it.
Sure, many series from small time authors never get completed, but that’s mostly due to publishers pulling the plug on a failing author, not due to the author being a lazy butthole.
>modicum of self respect and a wish to ensure your legacy
the concept of legacy is alien to him
he's just a pedestrian pulp writer who just happened to roll sixes when his main story was made into a tv series
if any of you morons still believe he'll finish any more books I have a bridge to sell you
he stopped writing them years ago
story remains unfinished
grrm dies with his legacy tainted
NO MORE BOOKS
He has written chapters for TWOW
Except those chapters were originally supposed to be in ADWD and AFFC but were cut out. Thats it. That is all he's written
He's just a halfwit who got lucky. He's got what he wanted. He doesn't really enjoy writing, he only did that when he needed money. Now, that he can coast on royalties thanks to morons buying and watching his shit, why would he continue working when he's already old and has little time left on this world? It's better to spend the rest of his time enjoying the fruits of his work.
Your first mistake is thinking of him as a passion writer. He only did this because he was useless for any other work. I hope that after he dies, he will be forgotten as people like that should never be counted among actual writers.
imagine reading an unfinished series hoping that the author won't get writer's block and live you hanging forever lol. I won't read a single page of his until he finishes BOTH of the books he has left (so never)
GRRM is the JJ Abrams of literature >write a story with thousand mystery boxes >unable to resolve them >quit writing because you made enough money already so why bother
>muh hes human too
when will people understand that an author building an interesting plot and world (which gets them success) and then not delivering on it is literally false advertisement? bugging them to finish is the least they should expect lmao
Why doesn't this fat slob just release a new sample chapter to give himself some breathing room? It's been like 10 years since the last one and it'll placate people for a while.
I'm glad I don't care about this series, but I'm still fricked because I'm waiting for Patrick Rothfuss to work.
I can't bring myself to read the second book, I find it a waste of time if there's not an ending to the trilogy.
At least there's some hope because he's sharing chapters of book 3 I think? I stopped paying attention years ago.
He dont know how to finish it, and bc. of lazyness he allowed fanboy expectations run to high. Lets take Euron, if this homosexual dont become Cthulhu and Godzilla Oldtown, many of his fanboys will be severly disappointed. But this is not his style so he dodnt know what to do.
He doesn't wanna write it anymore. It was an idea he was passionate for almost 30 years ago now. You can't retain a passion for something that long. It's over.
It's in Gurm's best interest to never finish the story, as nothing he writes can ever top the on-line debate and discussion of what he's already written.
We all know whats gonna happen, so whats the point? I don't just mean "Oh it'll happen the same as the TV show" either but there's been so many fan theories that have been so on the money, we know the rest of the story. May as well not write it.
that's stupid and I hate when authors have this mentality about fans figuring out the ending.
You might as well stop reading books and just look up their summaries if you think that's the same thing
Historical dramas are cool and popular, yet we all know caesar dies, we all know napoleon loses at waterloo, we all know hitler loses the war while in his bunker with berlin under siege
Do you think a story with a known ending is not worth telling?
The truth of things is the ending we got was the ending he had planned, insofar as where the characters end up.
The problem is D&D didn't adapt a lot of storylines and dropped a lot of the magic that is all over the place in the books.
So while Bran ends up on the throne in the end, in the books it won't actually be Bran, because Bran no longer exists, as Bloodraven warged into Bran while Bran was warged into Hodor (or his wolf, I genuinely don't remember). So now for all intents and purposes Bran is actually Bloodraven.
It's like that for basically every character and story line.
Sansa will rule as queen of the north but it will be directly because of the alliance with the fingers and it will be less the "north" which was basically just winterfell and it's vassal cities, and more that entire northern region of westereos.
Dany still goes mad and tries to blow up the city but it's not because of the bells ringing or because Cersei said no, it's because fAegon already claimed the throne and has made her out to be a bloodthirsty conquerer.
Etc etc etc.
Agreed, except I don't think Sansa will be a queen. That'd be utterly moronic. The North would be heavily reliant on things from the Six Kingdoms immediately and in no position to bargain prices so they'd be gouged like crazy. Their lands would be very open to raiding and attacks from any house that desired. The tv show tries to portray it as some happy ending since they're now free to rule themselves with a female ruler, etc, but it's really not and just waiting to set yet up another conflict and the North would lose. One of the themes GRRM kept putting into the North's story was "the lone wolf dies alone". It'd be pretty silly if they all just stay split up and never help each other, like Arya immediately abandoning her siblings to go die at sea.
Exactly two things kept the North as part of the Seven Kingdoms
1: Dragons
2: After that, the Starks being too honorable to break the oaths they made because of the threat of dragons
Before that, they did just fine on their own. If Sansa decides to tear up the contract, no, they don't need anything from anywhere south of the neck, except in your imagination.
Yeah sure, except the entire North has been raped, ravaged, and burned to the ground for years. Most of their men, leaders, and peasantry are dead and wealth squandered. They'd last barely a year or two before being reintegrated.
Aren't they a bunch of cannibals? I guess they could be soldier fodder, but how organized could they be?
3 months ago
Anonymous
I think the cannibal thing will turn out to be a rumor, or they do it for ceremonies etc. They do have lords and laws though, so they could be whipping into installing Rickon as the Stark in Winterfell (Obviously Jon will be the commander actually making this happen).
3 months ago
Anonymous
(samegay) I also think this is around the time that Davos attaches himself to Jon after he learns that Stannis is dead and/or burned Shireen.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Interesting take. I'll admit, I didn't consider the possibility of Skagos playing a big part, other than just exisiting for Davos to smuggle Rickon out. GRRM has a world building fetish, especially since AFFC, so it's possible there's more to Skagos that could play a bigger part.
3 months ago
Anonymous
They have been banned from sailing for a century so I could see them fighting for Jon/Rickon to get their maritime rights back.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>The Manderlys have also been building warships since ACOK and they're the ones who sent Davos on the mission
You may be onto something.
Like i said, Sansa being queen of the north isn't just the north as it's portrayed in the show -which is essentially the snow areas- it's the entire north region of Westereos that includes the vale and all sort of other land.
Basically instead of it going back to 7 kingdoms, it goes to 3 kindoms - the north, with Sansa as the queen, the middle, with Bran as the king, and the south Dorne area that would probably do it's own thing too.
But either way we're splitting hairs since it will never be written. I just don't think people realize that the characters ending up in the same spots they are in the show at the end of the books would have drastically different context and connotations when compared to the show.
>I just don't think people realize that the characters ending up in the same spots they are in the show at the end of the books would have drastically different context and connotations when compared to the show.
You're right, and it's wild that so many people are stupid enough to need this explained in detail every thread. They think GRRM's story would have the exact same context somehow, and that it's the ultimate gotcha reasoning why he doesn't finish the books.
Because every time in the last twenty years that he's sat down to finish a book in the Song of Ice and Fire series he has had to increase the number of books in the trilogy by one.
ASOIAF was an elaborate prank
The real song is the friends we made along the way.
he's fat
Nuh uh.
if that's what he's doing instead of finishing the books, i forgive him. i'd be doing the same if i had a trampoline.
lmao you guys are fricking moronic. that's not him, that's some random fat guy they hired for a skit on Conan or something, if grrm did those jumps he would immediately have a heart attack and die on the spot
These videos of him fricking around in his back yard really didn't age well at all. How long ago did he film that, over a decade? Over a decade and still no book?
just read PrestonJacob's winds fan fiction project
Is it any good? The only good ASOIAF story I read was Dragons of Ice and Fire
Otherwise it seems to not really have any good ones
No, it's garbage. I don't read much non erotic fan fiction thobeit so it could be good for fanfiction but I wouldn't know.
name that source material for your fanfics, if you are brave enough
Look up AO3 “Threesome in the North”
oh god
How was it?
I thought Preston Jacob's Winds of Winter fan fiction was terrible until I read his depiction of the Golden Company versus the Reach knights outside Storm's End.
Surprisingly passable as GRRM's own work honestly.
here I'll post an excerpt from his Bran chapter, I kind of like it.
It's a group effort so some of the writing is a little clunky and some of it is really, really good.
He doesn't know how to.
His moronic aversion to prophecies and love for killing characters left him with no setup for a satisfying ending.
I don't think you need prophecies to have a good ending
The problem is he had prophecies in the start, only to upend them for funsies. His whole shtick is subverting expectations. He has nothing left to subvert except to make a shit ending at this point.
>His whole shtick is subverting expectations.
No, he said himself that if you set up that the butler killed someone, like in a murder mystery, in the end it will be the butler who did it, you can't change it because people realized it was the butler. There have been numerous prophecies that have been fulfilled.
He also openly stated that he's seen someone somewhere on the internet correctly predict the entire ending, wholesale. Still not changing it
Thanks for not being moronic, GRRM
This will shock you, but there exists a sizeable portion of fiction consoomers, particularly literature consoomers, who are totally one-note obsessed with the idea of a prophecy and they will never even look twice at any work that doesn't contain prophecies
Detective novel? No prophecy, not reading that. Epic fantasy series about dragons and sorcerers and time manipulation? OHEMGEE I CAN'T WAIT TO SEE HOW THE TIME MANIPULATION ITNERACTS WITH THE PROPHECY!!!!!!!
Some people aren't looking for entertainment at all. They're looking for a prophecy, and this is how they get their fix. It's kind of pathetic when you start to notice this.
> aversion to prophecies
the only way to properly write prophecy is to write them AFTER you complete the ending. Same with all foreshadowing.
Truth is the tv show finale was the ending he wrote and everybody hated it. He's never going to finish it.
i believe this
It's the only thing that makes sense to me. After the massive flop and bad reception he just threw the tv adaptation under the bus. It had to happen!
came to say this
Plus, he's best when his work has an open end (twillight zone, Eldenring)
isnt most of elden ring's story head canon from the fans
The grey areas are mostly, was happend before and what are the consequences of the ending for the future
Do not engage with fromhomosexuals, they think having barely any story makes a game have a great story
yeah i relize that, dont get me wrong i love those games but frick me do i hate the way it tells the story mostly because it barely tells you anything plus most of it is head canon. what sucks is that other games for some reason copy this kind of "story telling" for example blasphemous, great game, but i have no fricking clue what is going on, there is a bunch of items with entire paragrpahs of story, could not give a single frick about them because they are talking about people that i havent met and probably wont ever meet.
>"Do not engage with fromhomosexuals, they think having barely any story makes a game have a great story"
>I need to have every piece of story spoon fed to me because i cant interpret anything for myself!
maybe goodnight moon is more your speed
>Truth is the tv show finale was the ending he wrote and everybody hated it.
There are numerous characters alive in the books and dead in the show. There is literally no way it can be the ending because things are so dramatically different at this point.
Bro just face facts, tell me honestly, that in a different reality where the general audience thought this ending we have is good. Tell me George wouldn't take sole credit for that ending if people liked it instead.
Is this the universe when D&D follow the books in a faithful adaptation from season 5 onwards?
I'm sure no matter how shit George's ending is it makes more sense in context. For instance, if the White Walkers still lose in a single battle, maybe it's because of the new pact theory and they just retreat beyond the Wall. Maybe Dany going fricking insane was supposed to take an entire season or Bran really was supposed to ward her. GoT's ending was so shit I seriously doubt a functional identical ending with A Song of Ice and Fire's plot beats instead of Game of Throne's could possibly be even half as shit. That's like comparing TROS to TLJ. No matter how bad it is, it's not so determined to be shit that it gets downright experimental with it.
If it was done well and fleshed out properly I don’t see how it could be bad. Weren’t most people predicting Danny was gonna go nuts anyway? It’s literally in her vision from the first book. Normalgays praised the show up until season 8 but the entire show shat the bed from season 5 and on. Danny going crazy is like the least of the problems with the story.
The show had deviated so far from the books that honestly the ending that George had in mind doesn’t make any sense. In my opinion the show should’ve had a different ending.
Not to mention D&D had pretty much checked out after S6 and wanted to be done with it. Which is why many consider the S6 to be the true final season.
Yeah people forget George isnt some based genius writer. He's a fat liberal whose just good at writing medieval characters, he doesn't actually like the characters for the reasons you like them and that ending was 100% the cliffnotes version he put forward.
He also copied some of England's actual history but the real events don't end in a super cool way involving ice demons so he has no idea how to finish it in a cool way.
This is definitely it. I also believe however that the show ending was more rushed and the book ending would've been a bit better/more interesting even if it had the same events.
Yeah, this is pretty much it. Sure some details would be different but the ones people are actually mad about (Jon, Dany, Bran) were clearly going to be the same even if done better.
Oh, so you haven't read the books. This makes no sense.
Cope
>(of a person) deal effectively with something difficult.
>"his ability to cope with stress"
Cope.
...that still makes no sense in that context. Its a fact that the TV series drastically departed from the events of the books after season 4, its impossible that that was the ending GRRM wrote for the books. What don't you understand?
Be honest, do you really believe the fat frick wouldn't take sole credit had it been a massive success instead?
Yes the work deviated, I guarantee you they didn't do shit without Martin's involvement in any way.
Even if that’s true, if George Lucas tried to tell someone circa Star Wars what he “planned” for Return of the Jedi, the end result would still have been completely different
>Yeah, but these oranges tho!
I don't give a frick about Lucas.
We are not talking about Lucas.
Stop sucking off your messiah and open your eyes. The fat frick would have happily taken credit, its not beneath him to do such things. Many writers do so they are not infallible saints.
so what if he took credit? Its still not the ending hes written for the books. He would be lying if he took credit, the show ending was purely the brainchild of D&D
This. It's abundantly obvious if you paid attention to the behind the scenes and interviews from everyone involved. D&D are hacks.
That's a cope.
I addressed that in my comment as well.
The tv ending might have not been so bad had they had time to establish and flesh it out a bit more. It's just they dropped the ball hard, the changes were radical and completely against the original intentions of several characters. They just didn't have the time or the money.
The show is only as good as it's writer.
>That's a cope.
No you are coping
>The show is only as good as it's writer.
And its writers are D&D
>led by a pale lady
They arent led by a pale lady, thats just an in-universe myth. Bran sees something he calls the "heart of winter" and Melisandre keeps talking about the "Great Other" so it sounds more like they're led by an evil god or ice cthulhu
We’re talking about writers and their propensity to be full of shit
I don't think George is infallible, far from that. I think he wrote himself into a dead end and has no idea how to properly untie all the knots to make the last two books possible. That being said, its ridiculous to blame him for the TV ending, or even the later 4 seasons for that matter.
>he wrote himself into a dead end and has no idea how to properly untie all the knots to make the last two books possible
that about sums it up for Martin
he's just a bad writer
Oh, so you really don't know? Its common knowledge that George stopped getting involved in the TV series around season 4 or 5. He couldn't take any credit for it even if he wanted. And are you really suggesting that he wrote two different endings, one for the TV series and another for his book series? lol
lmao, even.
I can't see how it's the same as the show. The 'white walkers' are speechless ice zombies where as the books they are elf like beings with a bizarre language and led by a pale lady. Can't see how they'd be created by the children with a motivation of 'lol kill everything'
Game of Thrones: True Ending & Sequel
Jon Snow enters the throne room to find Daenerys sitting on the Iron Throne. Jon commands Drogon to blast Daenerys. Drogon recognizing Jon’s authority as the true king obeys his command. Daenerys is encased in the steel of the Iron Throne like Han Solo in The Empire Strikes Back. Two hundred years pass by. Westeros is at war with Essos and winning. A Red Witch and Faceless Man man sneak into the Red Keep. The Red Witch uses a flame kept inside of a lantern from Drogon the Last Dragon to revive Daenerys. The descendant of Jon Snow must now confront his great aunt Daenerys.
If he wanted to finish the books he could hire a ghostwriter/small team thereof, and provide plot direction & editing
Let them do the bulk of the actual writing and he manages and guides
100%
I feel like that's pretty obvious. Series is about how all power is corrupt or corrupts, and ultra violence is unsustainable and ultimately socially defeating (bug it's fun to write about).
Turns out in the end the dramatic war of Kings accomplished nothing except the equivalent of the magic deep state illuminati playing them all for saps and running things from the shadows. Which will probably be for everyone's lack of benefit since the 3 eyed raven is heavily coded evil and demonic. It has GRRM all over it. And actually think he could pull it off if he was younger and still had juice in him.
>obvious
You would think that, but we have people here that insist the fat frick is some great writer of our time. Couldn't be further from the truth.
the fact that the books ending will hit the same general points of the tv series says nothing about the quality of the writing, in fact the plot could have worked even in the show if it had been fleshed out with like a dozen more episodes instead of being so rushed
I got so sick of waiting, I just started writing my own ensemble cast epic fantasy schlock. I'm a novice writer with no credentials, experience, or contacts, but I guarantee my entire trilogy will be published and completed before Winds.
i'll be the first to read it bro.
Hell yeah
i can help you write some explicit rape scenes
I guarantee it’ll be better than 95% of the fantasy slop in bookstores
Based. I wrote a ya romantasy. Took me about 5 years and 6 or 7 top to bottom rewrites. I also don't have any formal credentials but I'm happy with it.
ygmi
shoo shoo Bakker
>romantasy
>muscle b***hes
I would very much like to read these anons
>ya
What are your stories about anons :3
tl;dr hunks of ancient eldritch tech fall from the moon's ring onto a late medieval/early gunpowder tech planet full of people who don't understand it (not even the reader will), which causes problems.
It's a mishmash of all the things I like to see.
>gunpowder
>autismal worldbuilding with a bunch of different cultures that clash with one another
>muscle b***hes
>humans only
>body horror
>autismal worldbuilding with a bunch of different cultures that clash with one another
already on board for this
Nice try pal but these autistic fragments of story pitches with no wide appeal are MINE
Same bro. All I did was plagiarize Redwall but made the animals people, used dragon age names, and made them say curse words and have sex.
It's shame we never got to see Cornflower getting corn-holed.
you won’t get published without ESG points and an engaging social media account
This is why self publishing is utterly raping publishing houses.
I’m frankly amazed it hasn’t been throttled yet.
Honestly, you probably would.
I was born after GRRM started writing this series and will probably die before he finishes
I'm planning my own fantasy story but holy frick it's annoying that I find it easier to do creative writing exercises than to fricking hunker down and write my phd dissertation
I would read a low fantasy novel written by a fellow anon so fast you have no idea bros…
There's some guys on Cinemaphile that posted their writings a few days ago.
he did; what you saw in the series are ideas he shared with the couple of morons and since everybody hates it the fat frick will save face dying and leaving that shit like it is
He’s too fat
I'm fatter.
and how's that book coming along?
He won't finish it because he can't.
He wrote himself into a corner and isn't capable of sorting it out, so he stopped and started a series of new projects instead.
>he stopped and started a series of new projects instead.
You're half right
Why won't he just let George AI Martian finish it instead?
Got your sloppa hot n ready boss!
He's seething about blormpf
this, he thinks his work somehow is supposed to translate into politics, according to his depressing blogs. he is also clearly worried about a shitty ending hence the rewrites.
The shitty last few seasons of GoT were based on his his cliff notes for how he planned to end the series. I think when he saw how poorly it was received it mindbroke him.
if the show had made more episodes and provided more context and time and actually follow through with the abandoned plot lines then maybe it wouldn't have been as shitty
I really don't understand how they took their golden goose and just dumped it. They could have milked 3 more seasons out of that show easy.
D&D were rushing to get to their star wars show. They were sick and tired of Game of Thrones, but also didn't want to give the show to anyone else. And they had their next show lined up waiting for them. Then they did such a shit job, their star wars show got canceled.
I’d say it’s unbelievable how badly they botched it but I recall finding out one of those morons is just a trust fund nepotism baby and responsible for that awful Wolverine movie where Deadpool had no mouth.
Too busy getting fellated at conventions by tween groupies.
I’ve been thinking of myself as a writer in my head for over five years but the only story I ever finished and shared with others was about 8,000 words.
can i read it?
I have a book in my head with a semi complete plot from start to finish but I can never get motivated to start it
For me it’s just I’m bad at writing scenes. Lore building is fun, sometimes think up a plot and the plot progression is neat, but whenever I sit down and write a scene it’s always awkward I don’t know how to end it or what exactly I’m working towards with the dialogue
>ideas guy realizes he has no actual talent and that creating something is far more complex than just coming up with an idea
lol
lmao even
you guys jus like me fr
I understand your apprehension, anon.
I myself have been sitting on a Tiny Tim book for years now, but I think it’s going to release soon despite life doing everything it can to stop me.
I just need to reach out some feelers to some publishers I know.
thats one story more than GRRM
It's crazy that there are supposed to be another two books after Winds of Winter. It's insane to think about it. He shit on his entire legacy, just like Joseph Anderson.
He wrote himself into a corner. Whilst he may have tried at first, he quickly stopped when he got distracted with the fame the show brought and deliberately distracted himself with other projects rather than put in the actual focus required to move the series forward. At some point he probably realised he was avoided it, although at that point he realised he just doesn't give a shit - and his ego won't allow someone else to finish his series. Gene Wolfe is the actual American Tolkien.
I like Wolfe but i have reservations comparing any of these guys to Tolkien. The legacy is like Michael Jordan. Wolfe is great though. Dangerously based.
brando sando is ready to pick up the pieces once he dies from old age
Apparently, GRRM said he doesn't want anyone finishing the series if he were to die, although who can say if his estate will respect that wish. GRRM may shock everyone and live another 20 years. In any case, is there even going to be any real hype for a new ASOIAF novel? It has been that long, people have seen the ending of GOT, and if GRRM is the one to deliver it is not as if the series would have been completed so the fans will just be in a situation no different to what they are now.
When Winds comes out, heh when, I mean, IF, it comes out, it will instamtly hit the #1 best seller and stay there for weeks.
I unironically think that he's gonna live to like 90 and refuse to release the book until he dies just to piss everyone off
>Apparently, GRRM said he doesn't want anyone finishing the series if he were to die
This won't mean shit the moment he kicks the bucket. The publisher is going to find someone to finish the books before his body is cold and there's frick all his seething ghost can do about it.
>publisher is going to find someone to finish the books
My man Joe Abercrombie
>Most of the POV characters die
>Surviving characters end up worse off than ever
I want Sam to end up the worst of all
Make him scrub the chamberpots at Horn Hill and face daily beatings from his chad little brother to make him a man
, GRRM said he doesn't want anyone finishing the series if he were to die
Too bad fatso, it's happenin'
Busy fricking b***hes
>doesn't work on his main series
>writes a 736 page - irrelevant to the main series but, which only has any interest due to the main series - background lore book
I don't get it.
because he just had to copy paste the anarchy, change the names and add dragons, it's easy
finishing the main series requires actual effort
The story has already been told.
He's lost all motivation to share his story to the world when they've already experienced it.
It really hasn't. A FEW of the main beats have been hit, while tons more were missing and abandoned. And it really is never about the destination, but the journey. And the journey was extremely bungled in the show. If he put out anything that was similar quality to the previous books, then fans would be overjoyed. Which doesn't seem like a tall order for him to do since he already has all the necessary ideas and plotlines to achieve the finish he planned. No one is expecting them to somehow be 10x better than all previous novels and come up with brilliant new twists no one ever saw coming in decades of thinking about them.
everyone that says "he can't" is making shit up.
If he couldn't why would he go infront of cameras and audiences again and again and outright say that the opposite is true?
If he really couldn't all he has to say "its fricked"
Sales of the current books would drop if he came out and said "I can't finish it". There could also be legal problems with his publisher if he flat out said no to completing the series.
omg do you really think someone would go in front of the cameras just to lie? thats preposterous
Because nobody gives a shit about anything else he does other than ASOIAF. If he admits that he won't finish, his book sales will drop horribly, and his reputation will be in the shitter.
this is evidently not true though, because house of the dragon is very popular.
Its his final subversion of Tolkien
The story has no ending. It was all a prank.
Still working out the tax rebates on Dothraki interclan trade
He told the publisher in the original pitch for Game of Thrones that he loses interest in writing a story when he knows the ending. And HBO made him sketch an outline for the ending. It's Joever
Yea I think you and others are spot on. They ran the show till the end at HBO regardless of how much input he had and it didn't land gracefully. That's a hard act to follow since it would be compared to the show.
you gotta get over it
'm convinced George already finished Winds like 4 years ago and is just sitting on it because he's not happy, he's probably re-read it like 500 times in the last year alone and has literal manuscripts of varying sizes to swap into the story, he probably even has two stacks of paper that are essentially two different endings that he can't decide on, approximately 80 pages vs 134 pages
buy Fire and Blood 2
He lost all motivation after everyone panned the TV series ending knowing that nobody liked the idea of Sansa ruling an independent North, Bran randomly becoming King, and Daenerys dying.
this is a fricking joke right
Take a guess
Okay I'm taking a second look at the map and it's clearly all a joke.
Pretty fricking good though lmao
>The Dothraki [thing] scattered all over the world
>Lands of [time] [season] all over the place
love it
Dothraki thing is because there is a huge steppe/grassland area called the Dothraki Sea
Lands of time season is because in the far north there is a region called the Lands of Always Winter, where the evil ice elves come from
yes thank you anon
hmm dude i don't know, give me more time
your post is a joke right?
If you look at his writing production over his entire career you'll notice he only wrote when he was hungry or in danger of being hungry. Now that he's fully established there is no reason for him to keep going. It's too much work.
I've written 6 screenplays in this time and even more if i'd actually get my ass to it.
What the frick is wrong with him? I'd kill if i could just pitch everything i finish.
He's fat. He's always been fat. And mind, he comes from a working class family, so he might've been a bit malnutritioned as a child. And he still got fat by his 20's. And you don't just randomly get fat. It takes effort, you need to continuously ingest more calories than you can spend. Meaning, he's gluttonous. Meaning, he's prone to indulgence. And when such a person become extremely rich, as really did after he got the tv show deal, not to mention the popularity that came with it - it's very easy to let yourself go. Especially at his age.
Like Patrick Rothfuss he realised that he doesn't have a way to actually finish the story so is just going to run out the clock until people stop asking or he dies.
Endings are the easiest thing ever. Just have the main characters win. Or if you're writing a sad story have them die. It's really not complicated. This is what Rothfuss doesn't understand. The planning doesn't matter. As a writer stories don't have to be perfect they have to make money
I think the problem with the Kingkiller "trilogy" was that he wrote WAY too much story into the first two books to finish it off in three books, basically the first steps on the heroes journey but set the narration in a time well after the events of the books were set leading the reader to believe that shit loads more stuff happened between the beginning and end.
Ironically he should have just written like Jim Butcher and just churned out book after book until people just got bored and fricked off of their own accord while making money hand over fist in the process.
>Endings are the easiest thing ever.
The story isn't anywhere close to the ending tho.
What's so good about Kingkiller anyway?
All I hear about it secondhand is that it's about a gary stu who fricks every woman he sees and wins "but the prose is flowery and that's what makes it popular" and all defenses about being a gary stu are met with "he's an unreliable narrator"
Because he's a contrarian. Literally the entire series and his logic and his interviews are just a contrarian trying to be edgy. So when a bunch of people didn't like the ending to the show (which 100% is the actual ending to the books, he gave them notes on what happens) he threw his hands in the air and went FINE YOU CAN'T HATE ME BECAUSE I HATE YOU like a petulant Cinemaphile user
if you look at careful breakdowns of his progress based on his own words, he basically did nothing for 5-8 years and this was way before the show ended.
MITSUBISHI-SAN!
someone post the vocaroo
GRRM writes his books in a super complex way that midwits will never be able to grasp. It’s not “A leads to B and then C happens” it’s more like “A leads to B but actually if you read carefully there’s a passage in book 2 which can be retroactively applied to what’s happening in book 5 which paints the situation so differently that it’s like an entirely new story, and C happening was a red herring”
He’s writing his books to be decoded by high IQ people for decades to come. That takes time and constant re-writing.
He's not writing shit anon
Asshai by the Shadow never ever.
>his writing is so High IQ fans figured out the entire ending with jon being azhor ahai as well as a secret targaryan, with it alluding to "a song of ice and fire"
that's quite insane, it's so high iq you really can't predict anything. cercei won't be killed by arya, sansa definitely won't use baelish as a political bargaining chip and jaime DEFINITELY won't die keeping an oath, really need to rack your brain to think about how this all ends
lol Martin is the biggest fraud in the history of literature
overcomplicated plots and overly long, excruciatingly descriptive scenes aren't a sign of brilliance
he had some good ideas and the discipline to expand on them on paper
but he doesn't really know how to develop a story from start to finish which is why you'll never see another book of his before he croaks
plot twists are just devices to move the story forward, but he keeps using them over and over again as if they're means to their own end to elicit ooohs and aaaahs from the hapless reader
he was lucky the series was far superior in quality than his shitty books, when it's usually the other way around
>overcomplicated plots and overly long, excruciatingly descriptive scenes aren't a sign of brilliance
What the frick are you talking about? Is ASOIAF the only book series you've ever read? Go read Cormac McCarthy and then come back to tell me how GRRM has ''excruciatingly descriptive scenes''.
fans figured out the twist of the series and hes too much of a contrarian to let them get away with it so hes rewriting the whole thing.
>fans figured out the twist of the series
That R + L = J and it doesn't even matter?
POST THE VOCAROO AND THE COPYPASTA
https://vocaroo.com/1c8JjTuXYO6s
There's no satisfying ending that could be written so the best thing is to leave it open-ended and up to the imagination. Be glad he's not finishing the story.
because he's fat
he's fat dude
Even if he did, there's still A Dream of Spring. Our best hope was the show, but he dropped out of it during season 4, so it over... or is it? One could feed the books to a decent AI to shart out Winds AND Spring! Is a foolproof plan.
*farts*
Reminder that she wrote the entire Harry Potter series in less time than it has taken him to write one fricking book.
Not to defend the fat frick but it's not exactly high quality material what she pumped out
>but it's not exactly high quality material what she pumped out
Neither is ASOIAF tbf.
People are still pulling this card when it's one of the biggest literary franchises in existence. If it was so easy they'd be doing it every other year.
>If it was so easy they'd be doing it every other year
That's not how it works, popularity is not always built on complexity
For example, she might have thought about a world that is more appealing to a bigger demographic, that doesn't make that world harder to write or take longer to put on page when it has already been thought.Mass appeal is also not always a consequence of quality. I'm not saying she's completely talentless, yet you are defending against this argument nobody has made.
Not mention that the 5 ASOIAF books are around 4.2k pages against 3.4k of the 7 Potter books.
When did you give up hope? For me, it was when he couldn't even finish it during lockdown.
I still trust the plan
When he promised to seal himself into a remote cabin if he missed another deadline.
Yeah, that was hilarious. It was like fate itself was telling him to hurry the frick up.
>"lock me into a cabin with nothing but a type writer if I don't have it finished for the 2020 convention"
>2020 lockdowns happen
>Uhh yes there was some progress in 2020, but less progress in 2021 so please stop asking about the progress
>"haha, of course I wasn't speaking literally, it was a joke, get it?? haha so funny"
Probably when the show caught up with the books. I still lied to myself thinking he'd release it before the final season.
It was in 2022 when he said this
>I know, I know, for many of you out there, only one of those projects matters. I am sorry for you. They ALL matter to me. Yes, of course I am still working on THE WINDS OF WINTER. I have stated that a hundred times in a hundred venues, having to restate it endlessly is just wearisome. I made a lot of progress on WINDS in 2020, and less in 2021… but “less” is not “none.” The world of Westeros, the world of A SONG OF ICE & FIRE, is my number one priority, and will remain so until the story is told. But Westeros has become bigger than THE WINDS OF WINTER, or even A SONG OF ICE & FIRE.
The World of Westeros (i,e, the tv shows) are more important to him now than the main book series. He later switched his tune in order to hype up HOTD, but predictably he hasn't actually done work on the main series since 2022 (he has admitted so if you pay attention), and likely hasn't done any significant work on the main series since 2020. He really just wants to be an ideas guy for TV now.
Furthermore, I would expect a vague but optimistic update from George on Winds now that he needs to get people to watch HOTD season 2. Remember that he is probably lying.
how does hyping TWoW add hype for HoTD? nothing in twow will have any bearing on hotd. its like hyping a batman comic for the new superman movie coming out
Because it will make all the book fans feel more positive to the franchise as a whole and more likely to tune in.
thats ridiculous. no it wont
>I know, I know, for many of you out there, only one of those projects matters. I am sorry for you. They ALL matter to me. Yes, of course I am still working on THE WINDS OF WINTER. I have stated that a hundred times in a hundred venues, having to restate it endlessly is just wearisome.
Hopefully people peck and scratch and make every convention for him insufferable, by constantly asking where the frick the next book is, until he's dead and burning in his grave. Reminding him forever that he's a lazy piece of dog shit is what this fat homosexual deserves
This was him basically publicly admitting he stopped working on Winds
Of course his HBO wranglers made him paddle back and claim Winds is his number 1 priority when HotD came out.
Also the Fire and Blood books are ghost written
>Of course his HBO wranglers made him paddle back and claim Winds is his number 1 priority when HotD came out
Probably more his publishers, they could literally sue him if he openly stated he’s not gonna finish the book and doesn’t care anymore
This was the final nail in the coffin. Completely changed threads about him from joking about his prose to completely shitting on his entire legacy.
Has anything I've written changed a single mind
Each of his characters are written grey, what was he expecting?
Right?
They're all absolutely certain they're right, unable to be convinced they're wrong and happy to do the most appalling violence, murder torture and rape to prosecute that certainty
Now he's surprised that people in the culture he has had a major influence on are also filled with mad certainty and capable of literally anything against people they disagree with?
>They're all absolutely certain they're right, unable to be convinced they're wrong and happy to do the most appalling violence, murder torture and rape to prosecute that certainty
That's a gross exaggeration that only applies to some characters
That's basically every major character, except like Jamie
Jon is not happy to torture and be violent, he reluctantly some times does it.
He also literally learns he was wrong about the wildlings during his joruney and learns that not all of his enemies need to be evil and peace can be made with them.
We are not talking about 2 nobodies, but 2 MAJOR pov characters. Add to that characters that are just good like Sam and Brienne. People greatly overplay how evil martin's characters are all the times, when in reality the books are quite optimistic about redemption at many times
>People greatly overplay how evil martin's characters are all the times
They're all totally self-serving and the only time they display altruism (including when that altruism costs them) is in order to act out their own image of themselves as the good guy. Even their kindness to others is selfish, cynical and based on narcissism and the need to be better than their enemies.
He's one of the most cynical people in the world and his works reflect that.
Jon changes too yeah, still his mindset remains the same being just.
>Add to that characters that are just good like Sam and Brienne.
The point wasn't good characters it was characters being uncompromising to their worldview. They're good but they still fit this bill.
What about Tyrion, he changes into worse, then Penny makes him doubt himself in book 5
How is Jon self serving? How is Jaime self serving when he does good which would only make him look weak and ruin his established ruthless reputation?
What kind of characters in fiction doubt themselves so fricking much? I don't remember aragorn ever thinking "maybe we should join sauron".
You guys hold up George to standards no other creator has ever been held up to, what fricking work of fiction does characters and their worldview so much better for ALL povs and they ALL change their fricking minds mid series?
There is some criticism to be levied to the series, but these kinds of posts seem always like the worst kind of mental gymnastics
>Tyrion
Is hungry for power and stepping out of his dad's shadow.
>Self serving
This whole point starting from George b***hing about how his writings never changed anyone's minds. I enjoyed ASOIAF but how it doesn't exactly change worldviews or minds, more so it puts a bunch of flawed characters up and lets you choose who's cause you relate with the most. Which is why it's weird to see him write "I could've changed votes".
>Is hungry for power and stepping out of his dad's shadow.
Yes, and he changes and doubts constantly.
>This whole point starting from George b***hing about how his writings never changed anyone's minds. I enjoyed ASOIAF but how it doesn't exactly change worldviews or minds, more so it puts a bunch of flawed characters up and lets you choose who's cause you relate with the most. Which is why it's weird to see him write "I could've changed votes"
I don't see why you think grey characters can't change minds
Dotsoyevski has made a whole career out of making psychotic social reject protagonists to make a point of introspection to make people change their minds about themselves and morality.
What kind of story "changes people's minds" then?
The reason asoiaf doesn't change people's minds is because it's completely unrelated to moral conflicts that can relate to current politics. The conflicts the characters live are so removed to what might make people vote blue or red that I don't see why he thought they would change anyone's votes. Grey characters don't have anything to do with it.
The only mental gymnastics going on here is trying to find ways to believe that a cast of explicitly shitty people from a fictional world where only shitty people exist are somehow not shitty
Let's see another handspring champ
But you already conceded there are not only shitty people
You are just backpedalling to your already disproven argument kek
>backpedalling
Fraid not champ, now go back
Apologies! I'll amend that statement: All POV characters except a tiny handful are totally certain of their own rightness and unable to perceive any form or shape of evidence that might contradiction that total certainty
The only time doubts enter most of these characters' minds is when they are questioning whether or not they are acting in the most expedient way to make sure everyone that thinks they are wrong ends up raped to death
>admits being wrong
Enjoy being raped to death.
This pampered walrus just loves to kvetch and go "woe is me".
he has published 10 titles since dance with dragons and the second fire and blood book will come out before winds
It's never being published and the sooner the world comes to grips with that, the happier we'll all be.
the thing is that even if he manages to finish winds theres absolutely zero chance of him ever finishing the last book. the show ending is canon
He's rich, why would he care any more? He made his mark, he got his, why try?
>He made his mark
Mot with an unfinished series, he hasn't. This is his magnum opus and he's dropping the ball.
Because he's endlessly seething about Tolkien and at the moment GRRM looks like a complete and utter joke compared to Tolkien. Couldn't finish his series and is decades late, and the tv show based on the series was atrociously bad.
Nuthin' personnel Cinemaphilegays, gurrm works for us vidya chads now
How much did he actually contribute
he wrote the pederast character and the [ugly bastard] nihilist, probably
He gave up by 2014 at least.
you just know he pays those assistants less than he pays the ones who bring him pizza
The best case scenario at this point is he dies and his estate hires Kevin J Anderson to write several decades worth of fanfiction to fill in the gaps.
Everyone who recommended me those stupid books and show is a fat childless loser that gets older and older. I feel better about my own life thinking about them waiting for a book that is the same age as my son.
>tfw got to the Tower of Joy dream in AGOT
GRRM is a fricking genius. I finally understand why he takes so long, it's because he only writes kino.
As of December he said he has about 500 pages more to write.
At this point, it doesn't matter if he finishes Winds or not, he is never going to finish Dream. It would still be an unfinished series.
at some point you have to stop introducing irrelevant characters and giving their names backstory
He's a weak man. Success defeated him.
>Victory has defeated you
the phrase
>writing yourself into a corner
comes to mind
Oh the book is already finished, he just won't release it, out of spite, because if he did, he would be giving the toxic, sexist, racist, mysoginistic, radical far right extremist, white supremacist manbaby terrorists what they want.
At this point, him releasing his book would be a political statement that would get him canceled.
>Elden Ring 2 will come out before Winds
Thank fricking Christ.
If he has writer's block, why doesn't he just say "frick it" and flood the setting with White Walkers? It's thematicaly appropriate for them to intrude at any point in the story; there's no reason why any of the plotlines have to progress to a certain point to be "ready" for a catastrophe which specifically exists in the story to be something that no one is prepared for.
Few reasons I thought up of. He either has absolutely no creativity beyond GOT. If he finishes this series he will have no more relevancy and books to make.
"How many children did Scarlett O'Hara have? Three, in the novel. One, in the movie. None, in real life: she was a fictional character, she never existed. The show is the show, the books are the books; two different tellings of the same story." - George R. R. Martin
pretty clever to have other people destroy your legacy while you're still alive its a real time saver, and profitable for himself.
He gets off to everyone wanting to read it
Because he's a fat butthole
I smile and get up with a god damn pep in my step thinking about how fricking everyone I knew hounded me to watch GoT, how I would love the trope subversion since I liked reading and playing fantasy tabletop. All for it to come crumbling down, they won't even acknowledge the show existing.
>Be me
>At my wagie job
>Boss comes up and dumps 20+ years of pay on my desk in cash
>Tells me to get back to work
Hmm lets see do I stay at my desk finishing up mindless reports for the next several years or should I buy a yacht and some blow and never go back to work again
That's fine, but if you're an author with some modicum of self respect and a wish to ensure your legacy remains somewhat, you'd want to finish at least the series and coast on even more money
You could even argue that it’s false advertising. Nobody picks up a series under the assumption that the author will one day decide to say frick it.
Sure, many series from small time authors never get completed, but that’s mostly due to publishers pulling the plug on a failing author, not due to the author being a lazy butthole.
>modicum of self respect and a wish to ensure your legacy
the concept of legacy is alien to him
he's just a pedestrian pulp writer who just happened to roll sixes when his main story was made into a tv series
That’s unfair to pulp writers, those guys were fast and prolific
>takes 10+ years to write a book
>"uhhh why do people keep bugging me about this"
if any of you morons still believe he'll finish any more books I have a bridge to sell you
he stopped writing them years ago
story remains unfinished
grrm dies with his legacy tainted
NO MORE BOOKS
He has written chapters for TWOW
Except those chapters were originally supposed to be in ADWD and AFFC but were cut out. Thats it. That is all he's written
>legacy
He's just a halfwit who got lucky. He's got what he wanted. He doesn't really enjoy writing, he only did that when he needed money. Now, that he can coast on royalties thanks to morons buying and watching his shit, why would he continue working when he's already old and has little time left on this world? It's better to spend the rest of his time enjoying the fruits of his work.
Your first mistake is thinking of him as a passion writer. He only did this because he was useless for any other work. I hope that after he dies, he will be forgotten as people like that should never be counted among actual writers.
imagine reading an unfinished series hoping that the author won't get writer's block and live you hanging forever lol. I won't read a single page of his until he finishes BOTH of the books he has left (so never)
GRRM is the JJ Abrams of literature
>write a story with thousand mystery boxes
>unable to resolve them
>quit writing because you made enough money already so why bother
He's too busy hanging out with Milla Jovovich and her handsome and talented husband.
>muh hes human too
when will people understand that an author building an interesting plot and world (which gets them success) and then not delivering on it is literally false advertisement? bugging them to finish is the least they should expect lmao
He’s just like me.
because he's a fricking hack and always was, he's writing 100 years war fan fiction with soap opera mixed in.
Threadly reminder that GRRM recently admitted that he didn't write anything in 2023. As in, zero words in three hundred and sixty five days.
We know anon. All the currently written chapters of TWOW including the released and leaked ones are actually chapters that were cut from AFFC and ADWD
Bane sucked my wiener in an elevator
any book writer frens actually willing to share something they wrote?
some of the concepts in here are gud
Why doesn't this fat slob just release a new sample chapter to give himself some breathing room? It's been like 10 years since the last one and it'll placate people for a while.
because there is no new chapters lmao.
Arent there like 8 or 10 or so sample chapters, some released, some leaked?
I'm glad I don't care about this series, but I'm still fricked because I'm waiting for Patrick Rothfuss to work.
I can't bring myself to read the second book, I find it a waste of time if there's not an ending to the trilogy.
At least there's some hope because he's sharing chapters of book 3 I think? I stopped paying attention years ago.
He dont know how to finish it, and bc. of lazyness he allowed fanboy expectations run to high. Lets take Euron, if this homosexual dont become Cthulhu and Godzilla Oldtown, many of his fanboys will be severly disappointed. But this is not his style so he dodnt know what to do.
He doesn't wanna write it anymore. It was an idea he was passionate for almost 30 years ago now. You can't retain a passion for something that long. It's over.
He can ghostwrite it or let AI fill in the gaps, laziness isn't even an excuse anymore.
>why doesn't he just finish his book
It's in Gurm's best interest to never finish the story, as nothing he writes can ever top the on-line debate and discussion of what he's already written.
We all know whats gonna happen, so whats the point? I don't just mean "Oh it'll happen the same as the TV show" either but there's been so many fan theories that have been so on the money, we know the rest of the story. May as well not write it.
that's stupid and I hate when authors have this mentality about fans figuring out the ending.
You might as well stop reading books and just look up their summaries if you think that's the same thing
The journey matters far more than the destination. And it'd wash the taste of shit out of our mouths from the tv show.
Yeah but if the destination is shit why go on the journey again?
Historical dramas are cool and popular, yet we all know caesar dies, we all know napoleon loses at waterloo, we all know hitler loses the war while in his bunker with berlin under siege
Do you think a story with a known ending is not worth telling?
The truth of things is the ending we got was the ending he had planned, insofar as where the characters end up.
The problem is D&D didn't adapt a lot of storylines and dropped a lot of the magic that is all over the place in the books.
So while Bran ends up on the throne in the end, in the books it won't actually be Bran, because Bran no longer exists, as Bloodraven warged into Bran while Bran was warged into Hodor (or his wolf, I genuinely don't remember). So now for all intents and purposes Bran is actually Bloodraven.
It's like that for basically every character and story line.
Sansa will rule as queen of the north but it will be directly because of the alliance with the fingers and it will be less the "north" which was basically just winterfell and it's vassal cities, and more that entire northern region of westereos.
Dany still goes mad and tries to blow up the city but it's not because of the bells ringing or because Cersei said no, it's because fAegon already claimed the throne and has made her out to be a bloodthirsty conquerer.
Etc etc etc.
Agreed, except I don't think Sansa will be a queen. That'd be utterly moronic. The North would be heavily reliant on things from the Six Kingdoms immediately and in no position to bargain prices so they'd be gouged like crazy. Their lands would be very open to raiding and attacks from any house that desired. The tv show tries to portray it as some happy ending since they're now free to rule themselves with a female ruler, etc, but it's really not and just waiting to set yet up another conflict and the North would lose. One of the themes GRRM kept putting into the North's story was "the lone wolf dies alone". It'd be pretty silly if they all just stay split up and never help each other, like Arya immediately abandoning her siblings to go die at sea.
Exactly two things kept the North as part of the Seven Kingdoms
1: Dragons
2: After that, the Starks being too honorable to break the oaths they made because of the threat of dragons
Before that, they did just fine on their own. If Sansa decides to tear up the contract, no, they don't need anything from anywhere south of the neck, except in your imagination.
Yeah sure, except the entire North has been raped, ravaged, and burned to the ground for years. Most of their men, leaders, and peasantry are dead and wealth squandered. They'd last barely a year or two before being reintegrated.
This
There is no god damn way that a post, war of the five kings and war against the dead, north could be independent.
I think GRRM wrote Skagos into the story purely to supply the north with thousands of fresh troops.
Aren't they a bunch of cannibals? I guess they could be soldier fodder, but how organized could they be?
I think the cannibal thing will turn out to be a rumor, or they do it for ceremonies etc. They do have lords and laws though, so they could be whipping into installing Rickon as the Stark in Winterfell (Obviously Jon will be the commander actually making this happen).
(samegay) I also think this is around the time that Davos attaches himself to Jon after he learns that Stannis is dead and/or burned Shireen.
Interesting take. I'll admit, I didn't consider the possibility of Skagos playing a big part, other than just exisiting for Davos to smuggle Rickon out. GRRM has a world building fetish, especially since AFFC, so it's possible there's more to Skagos that could play a bigger part.
They have been banned from sailing for a century so I could see them fighting for Jon/Rickon to get their maritime rights back.
>The Manderlys have also been building warships since ACOK and they're the ones who sent Davos on the mission
You may be onto something.
Like i said, Sansa being queen of the north isn't just the north as it's portrayed in the show -which is essentially the snow areas- it's the entire north region of Westereos that includes the vale and all sort of other land.
Basically instead of it going back to 7 kingdoms, it goes to 3 kindoms - the north, with Sansa as the queen, the middle, with Bran as the king, and the south Dorne area that would probably do it's own thing too.
But either way we're splitting hairs since it will never be written. I just don't think people realize that the characters ending up in the same spots they are in the show at the end of the books would have drastically different context and connotations when compared to the show.
>I just don't think people realize that the characters ending up in the same spots they are in the show at the end of the books would have drastically different context and connotations when compared to the show.
You're right, and it's wild that so many people are stupid enough to need this explained in detail every thread. They think GRRM's story would have the exact same context somehow, and that it's the ultimate gotcha reasoning why he doesn't finish the books.
What is his tax policy?
Basically, you give him money, and that's it.
Because every time in the last twenty years that he's sat down to finish a book in the Song of Ice and Fire series he has had to increase the number of books in the trilogy by one.
Do you think that Jojen alive in the books or are you Jojenpaste truther?
Jojenpaste. I think Bran's story is way darker than the show portrayed
Post some medieval fiction recommendations.