why dont movies ever depict Knights armor and style of fighting properly?
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why dont movies ever depict Knights armor and style of fighting properly?
why dont movies ever depict Knights armor and style of fighting properly?
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Video wasn't around back then, and nobody had fought for their lives with a sword for hundreds of years by the time it was around. There's no visual record of what real fighting looked like. Just youtube LARPers reading a a manual and talking out of their asses. Like trying to rebuild muay thai by reading steven seagal's diary about aikido.
Yes there is
There are paintings and the Fechtbuchs
>I learned karate
>cool, how'd you learn it?
>I looked at a still painting of two guys standing
just like modern books on wrestling and judo today these medieval books came with multiple illustrations and detailed descriptions of the moves
doesn't respond to the argument
>inb4 hurr durr no they dont
It isn't that anyone doubts the existence of illustration. It's that trying to practice a marrial art based on text and still pictures is basically the same as just making it up. All of your favorite HEMA youtubers are, at best, mcdojo people, if not worse.
you can see very common wrestling and judo moves being used when the armored fighters grapple and one is taken to the ground, especially the trips
what is the point of your participation here except to tut tut and say 'nuh uh sweetie'? go away
go back to a hugbox then homosexual
OP's premise is flawed because no one knows how they actually fought
>OP's premise is flawed because no one knows how they actually fought
There were training manuals produced at the time
people have studied them and applied them and found they work
Nobody who knows judo or wrestling would consider "I read a book" as any kind of qualification at all. I'm not sure you're following the point here.
thats why you practice it and meet an arms master and train under him
men-at-arms/knights spent an hour or two several times a week practicing in full armor
And they were garbage until they'd gone through a few battles, because it doesn't teach you the essentials.
Oh, western armed forces have been doing it wrong all these years! We just grab a few hundred thousand draftees and send them into the meat grinder to teach them the essentials, THEN we run them through bootcamp! Thanks anon, you are completely not 100% moronic.
After the collapse of the Roman empire Western Europe didn't have permanent standing armies again until the Spanish Tercios of the 1600s
In the Feudal Age there was a small core of nobility that trained in warfare
But aside from them the vast majority of soldiers raised for campaigns were ordinary people with day jobs
The only exceptions I can think of are the Italian city militias and English lowbowmen who were ordered to practice on Sundays, except for them levies had no formal training
The free companies that emerged in the 1360s during one of the lulls of the 100 years war and caused havoc across France before eventually going to Italy to become the Condottiere were comprised of ordinary people that didn't want to go back to their day jobs of peasant drudgery
You really are a moronic Black person
First :
The first standing army was the French compagnies d’ordonnance, not the Spanish tercio
Secondly the fact that noble were trained makes them a professional fighting force
Thirdly the English great companies were not «peasants» but English peasants that had to train all their livres in archery by order of the king, then if they were fit were enrolled by mercenaries, then could serve in the army when the army was called
you read the books to better understand the techniques, rules, moves. Then your practice
Ya they're full of useful and practical descriptions like "remove your pommel and end him rightly"
hit him with the pommel of your weapon, duh
Wrong, you're supposed to unscrew the pommel and throw it at the guy
The books have multiple pictures for different stages of the technique and also written descriptions for each one.
>I can't do something so I believe no one else can.
Stop projecting your inadequacies on the rest of the world.
me? I learned how to juggle. I haven't actually tried to juggle yet but I know how to do it perfectly from reading about it so actually there's no need to.
>thats why you practice it and meet an arms master and train under him
>men-at-arms/knights spent an hour or two several times a week practicing in full armor
>we know how they fought from the books
>but also actually they learned how to fight from their masters
I see, I see.
the books were written by the masters
people practiced what was in the books
people sought out the masters who produced them or their senior pupils
nobles hired masters to teach their sons
those masters compiled their years of experience into fechtbochs
do you not understand nuance and variability
The war manuals were written by the master at arms of various holds/castles
Do you have shit for brains? It doesn't take much of thought to understand that there is theory and there is practicing. Books are theory, training physically is practicing. You go to driving school, you take lessons about traffic laws, then you go practice real driving with your teacher. But you didn't go to driving school, because you have shit for brains and you are unable to understand anything. Shit for brains moron.
YouTube autists > movie israelites
>trying to rebuild muay thai by reading steven seagal's diary about aikido.
Horrible analogy. You just picked the most ridiculous thing for no reason.
People write great martial arts manuals today. I think Jack Demsey and Bruce Lee have left a legacy of good and influential martial arts material in written form.
What is interesting about the small amount of old written material on sword fighting I have seen, is how similar it is to the forms and techniques of unarmed martial arts today, which suggests to me that both old sword fighting martial arts and modern unarmed martial arts are drawing from the same basic principles of bodily mechanics that need to be utilized in combat.
For example, wrestling is pretty highly regarded as a very good martial art. If you get good at wrestling, you develop an intuition about bodily position that carries over into other things like boxing. Wrestlers do very well in the UFC, for example, even when they don't wrestle much. Some ancient sword fighting source said something to the effect of "The best wrestlers always win sword fights", which seems to be reflecting on the very same basic fact about martial arts people today notice.
>is how similar it is to the forms and techniques of unarmed martial arts today, which suggests to me that both old sword fighting martial arts and modern unarmed martial arts are drawing from the same basic principles of bodily mechanics that need to be utilized in combat.
yes this is very apparent when you watch the recreations, they are grappling and tripping and throwing just like in wrestling and jujutsu
they all would have crosstrained in whatever sort of traditional wrestling was in their region
list here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folk_wrestling
Tou left the ps’ art where thai boxing manual does exist and does a pretty good job at teach the techniques
The armor is always depicted as lumbering and clumsy, not tailored to the wearer
They always seem to go without helmets or face protection
I have never ever seen a poleaxe being used, or a sword halfhanded or murder stroke. And instead of using them to pry into caps people just pointlessly bash at solid iron plates with a sword as if it could be cut or the person wearing it could be hurt by that
a lot of it was really wrestling/judo, using the sword or poleaxe as a prybar, grappling and throwing down an opponent and then stabbing in a gap
Post the local lord
Proper Poleaxe fighting is too complicated to choreograph for anyone not versed in HEMA.
I can't imagine basedjack actors working out to heft a 7 LBS polearm for 5-10 minutes of continual action.
There's a reason why people ate so much back then and didn't get fat.
>There's a reason why people ate so much back then and didn't get fat.
it wasn't loaded with fat and corn syrup like today
and food was all seasonal, like you would only have milk when cows had calves they were nursing - cows producing milk all year round hadn't been bred yet
No it's not
Only your actors close to the camera would be hefting the real thing and wearing real armor
people in the background would being using lightweight replicas since it wont be as easily discerned
And like with any sort of action you would have them train and work out in order to look good
This isn't new, for centuries it was traditional for English actors to learn to fence as part of their repertoire, thats why people like Basil Rathborne and Christopher Lee were excellent fencers
konk
why are knights so cute? i see a picture like this and i can't help but smile even if they're killing each other
thats not a skirt its plate
The weird part is they could probably hire reenactors to act as background, and just use their armour. Not only will it be tailored, and historical, it will be cheaper than making separate shitty sets for background characters.
Much too bright and cheerful you idiot
They need to be the color of mud or gravel or nobody will believe it's the middle ages
Once you're done with that, we need you on the set of the western to dust everyone with turmeric
>dust
its done post production with color filters unfortunately
It's not about anyone not believing medieval age. It's about people starting to believe that world before modern cities was not as bad as ~~*they*~~ claim they are.
And why don't they show ancient ptsd from sword fighting
why do you think they were so violent and drank so much
You didn't get it as bad in those days. People who wrote about PTSD from WW1 onwards would note how the thing that really fricked the soldiers up was seeing guys get blown apart by explosive shells, they were super loud and fricked people up in a way that the brain's trauma responses had no context for dealing with. That's why they called it shell shock.
they probably went into battle drunk or stoned
>the work of one who consorts with beasts!
Redwall was real
>Redwall was real
Everybody already knows this.
People had it rough back then, goddamn
>instead of getting mugged by humans, get straight up executed by anthropamorphic animals
In order for an art to evolve there needs to be actual competition. Modern day larpers don't fight to the death so it's all a meme.
when people at the time practiced and trained they weren't fighting to the death either
Most knights didn't fight to the death either, part of the code of chivalry was to attempt to take your opponent alive so you could ransom him back to his family, peasants died, knights usually lived
Agincourt, Crecy, Poitiers
French Knights all killed again and again
Yeah killed by english peasant archers who didn't follow the code of chivalry
>thinking knights and nobles stuck to some sort of code when fighting
of course they did you cynic
when knights were fighting in full plate they were aiming to get a blade into the armpit or groin or butt or lift the visor up to stab into the face, not a very honorable way to die
their codes dealt with behaving honorably, being truthful, loving god, etc
winning however was required wasn't covered
and it was very clearly accepted that you could strike and even kill someone of lower class with impunity
you agree that the archers weren't following the code
>you could strike and even kill someone of lower class with impunity
Where did I ever claim the code of chivalry applied to peasants? In fact I said the exact opposite
and the code of chivalry did cover how knights should fight and win, yes they could kill each other but they were required to take another knight alive when possible, not that hard to do really you disarm your opponent, knock him to the ground or give him an injury and then demand he yeild, and most did, and again it was also preferable because it was a way to make money by ransoming them back to their families
leaving honour aside there wasn't that much of an incentive to kill other knights since they were all rich important figures, taking them alive meant you could ransom them back for a bunch of gold and put that back into your war effort. Sometimes you'd have no choice but to kill them in the heat of battle to make sure they're no longer a threat, but generally if you can knock them off their horse and take their weapon you gain more from capturing them alive than from lifting their visor and stabbing them in the face.
if they survived yes a ransom would be a nice reward
but in battle they're trying to kill you and you have only one way to stop that
True, but if you can incapacitate a knight to the point that you can get a blade in the gaps in his plate you're probably in a position to disarm and capture them already. If the battle devolves into a melee it's not practical but most battlefield casualties happened after one side had routed and broke formation anyway. it was worth the extra effort in the time before supply lines were a thing and you had to rely on foraging and plunder to maintain your force
Yeah they did, it was an honour based culture, plus like I said a big goal of taking rival knights alive was so you could ransom them back to their families, it was a way to make money
monsters and talking animals were real back then
>Fri
Medieval shitposting still funny more than a thousand years later. The right Rabbits shocked expression says it all.
>literally begging for death
This literally reads like Cinemaphile and reddit, except it is on a book. Poor frickers.
>my feet hurt
>this vellum sucks
>they don't even know about the neo-Platonic mysteries
>I wish I was home tending to my beehives
You will enjoy the studded leather and leather armor and leather everything
I dont think we have ever seen a film about the Condottiere
Or the centuries of fighting between the republics, city states, baronies, duchies, and principalities that comprised modern Italy
Here, have another fricking vikang shit with Black folk in it
>Italy
>vikings
hmm
as for black people, there were Muslims in Italy until 1300
They fought for the Holy Roman Empire, in one particular battle 7,000 Muslim archers fought alongside 2,000 Tutonic knights
>as for black people, there were Muslims in Italy until 1300
There weren't sub-Saharan African Blacks in Europe in the medieval period until they started to be shipped as slaves to Lisbon in the late 15th century.
true, these Medieval Muslims in Italy would have been descended from North Africans, the people of modern Libya/Morroco/Algiers/etc - who are not black sub-saharans
The holy Roman Empire wasn't in italy
yes it was
No it wasn't you idiot, the holy Roman Empire is where modern day Germany is, the Roman Empire was in Italy
Black person
>controls territory from several nations, including Rome and the papacy
Voltaire Sisters seething rn
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_II,_Holy_Roman_Emperor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cortenuova
>King of Italy and holy Roman Emperor
2 different titles, because the kingdom of Italy wasn't part of the holy Roman Empire
>The holy Roman Empire wasn't in italy
Parts of what is now Italy were at certain times part of the Holy Roman Empire.
most of northern italy was technically part of the hre until napoleon dissolved it
How about a knight and his retinue of men-at-arms in a small scale conflict?
In my books I’ve tried to stress that most battles would have been between smaller groups of dudes and not frickhueg lines of dumb c**ts just charging at each other and flailing around.
They usually went into battle with hammers and maces. Those long pointy metal sticks weren't much good against armor.
that would be useful on horseback
on foot you would be using a spear if in a large mass
or a poleaxe if fighting individually
would this have been kino or cringe?
>This was an interesting project as I got a unique opportunity to pitch an idea for a TV series. Natural I went for a Medieval theme but with a twist; what if there was a ragtag group of mercenaries made up of warriors from all across the Medieval world (minus the New World). What would they look like and what sort of adventures would they have? I did some concept art for the pitch with the help of my ex-colleagues but unfortunately nothing came of it in the end. Still I like some of the artwork a lot so I thought I'd share it here with you all.
>Nagahide (Ronin) and Vincent (Knight) fighting side by side against German Men-at-arms in defense of a town in northern Italy near the border with the Holy Roman Empire.
>Elena (English archer) and Karl (Rus warrior) protecting some pilgrims against Turkish bandits. From a distance, Jun, a Ming warrior from China, rides to their assistance.
>The Freelancer company pitches camp for the night in Cappadocian wilderness. Sophia, the Muslim warrior is saying her evening prayers while Elena, the English archer looks on. Nagahide polishes his katana while Vincent sets up a campfire. The Rus mercenary, Karl is bringing up more fire wood.
>female archer
Extreme cringe.
>Longbow average draw weight was 120lbs
Dunno if this chick looks the part
Would be hilarious for all the seething from katanagays this would cause.
Apparently there's all kinds of swordfighting moves you can only do with a crossguard so if the guy knows what he's doing a eurostyle sword would destroy a katana 9 times out of 10.
Yes a slashing cavalry sword against full plate or a coat of plates would be pretty useless
The Samurai would pick up a spear or a polearm, the Glaive is similar to the Naginata so he'd find that pretty familiar
The Japanese also had their own unique blunt force weapon for use against armor called the Kanabo
So that's why baseball is so huge in Japan
samurai had more weapons than just katanas
see
also I'm pretty sure that armor is from a much later period than what the Europeans seem to be wearing
Yeah but in the pic he's using a katana.
Longswordgays these days are as delusional, ill informed and biased as Katanagays were in the late 90s/early 2000s
cringe
1) it would be made with a quarter of the budget necessary to make it look that good, they'd instead be wearing GoT pleather and equestrian jackets
2) while some of these people could conceivably have met and interracted in the Italian wars, Byzantine, Balkans, and around the Black Sea not all of them would have
3) muh wimminz: I am willing to accept that it isn't impossible women disguised themselves to participate in war in medieval times, it did happen in the Age of Piracy and in the semi-modern times of the Napoleonic Wars and American Revolutionary War and civil war - but the key word here is _disguise_ they would not have been going around openly it would be far far far too risky. There were women among the camp followerers that tagged along with armies, but thats not the glamorous butt kicking people want to historically retcon and self insert.
4) same goes for Muslims, there were some region specific examples like in Italy someone mentioned and also the Turcopoles used by Byzantine and the Crusader states but outside these contexts peoples religious biggotry was too strong.
It would have been based but bluepulled, perhaps not kino, perhaps not cringe. Most likely comfy.
imagine how triggered this would make people now
this Blair chap did like gingers
Because they don't care and correctly think the audience is stupid. They just copy old movies and don't have to look up anything or hire experts. It would take effort to get it right.
>any of you lasses ever heard of prima nocta?
>you'll never be a knight
>you'll never have a manor
>you'll never have a charger or a palfrey
>you'll never have a full harness
>you'll never have a lady
why are we made to suffer by this modern world
Man I love medieval shit, imagine selling your estate for plate armor which was basically power armor back then and the only thing that could kill you was blunt trauma
there were gaps: neck, armpit, inside elbow, groin, buttocks and back of thighs in some designs
a fight would devolve into grappling, going to the ground, being pinned, and then a dagger being jammed into one of these spots
yeah to make an addendum to this
a woman in disguise would be wielding a spear or polearm, not a bow
I want an Azincourt by Bernard Cornwell movie adaptation
made 20 years ago when we'd have 1 token minority and thats it
>implying they didn't just sit back and let hundreds of peasants die before they have to do any real fighting