I don't use Reddit. Why are you gays obsessed with that site. In most of the threads on this site, which are in the high traffic boards like Cinemaphile, the conversation always turns to "Reddit" . Why is that? What did that place do to live rent free in your minds?
Reddit can be useful insofar that it's a permanent archive, more or less, unlike Cinemaphile where you won't always find a specific thing you're looking for. And obviously subreddits for any specific topic.
But it's not as "real time" as Cinemaphile, and if you plan on making a post or a comment, it's usually one and done. I won't even delve into the actual site culture as that's obviously different.
Permanent achieve of moronation.
There are archives for Cinemaphile as well.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yes, but if you have a specific question, you won't find it easily in a Cinemaphile archive.
Whereas simply googling "weird lump on my leg reddit" or "pecan pie recipe" will bring you to a thread full of advice.
The structure of the two is different. Cinemaphile was never truly meant to even have an archive.
You get a thread and a limited number of posts and that's it, it disappears.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Read the fricking manual, download a textbook, figure shit on your own...
You don't need internet morons to explain you anything. Plus when that happens on Cinemaphile it's done better than anywhere else on the internet, with simplistic infographics and idiot proof guides because some autist had to win an argument... since arguments, words is all we have here.
How incredible is it that Lucas made a 6 part epic that fans will constantly argue about the greatness of each episode in comparison with one another. Literally the GOAT.
Fans like to rate things mostly to have something to discuss. Actually I don't think that someone who loves an entire series/coherent story actually ranks parts since those are contingent on the whole.
People on Cinemaphile make tier lists that are purposely wrong because it gets replies. They are also afraid of saying what they really believe because that would invite hurtful criticism. It's really tedious. Nobody cares about your controversial takes on onions media.
On Reddit you have to post the most conformist opinion possible so that your account won’t be penalized. On Cinemaphile you have to post the most obnoxious opinion possible so you’re post will get attention.
There's no way Return Of The Jedi is better than any of the prequels >All that time spent in Jabba's Palace >fricking around with Ewoks for a while >OH BUT THOSE FEW SCENES WITH LUKE AND VADER AND THE EMPEROR MAKE UP FOR EVERYTHING!
no they fricking don't
Without the Jabba scene there is no way to show how far Luke has come from being the shy farm boy from Tatoonie. The scene isn't too long, you're just too moronic
The flaw with Jabba's palace is that Luke is kind of a b***h. Luke should have walked in there and rekt the place.
Then he has r2d2 shoot him his lightsaber as he does a sweet flip and kill everyone. Which is a clearly a call back to obi wans sweet flip he uses against Darth Maul.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Which is a clearly a call back to obi wans sweet flip he uses against Darth Maul
Do zoomers really think the prequels came first?
Without the Jabba scene there is no way to show how far Luke has come from being the shy farm boy from Tatoonie. The scene isn't too long, you're just too moronic
ESB only truly makes sense and has any power in reference to the prequels, so I'm not really sure what you're arguing. I like all of the movies, and I believe 1-6 comprise the best single film of all time, but 5&6 are objectively the worst.
>ESB only truly makes sense and has any power in reference to the prequels
No it doesn't, the prequels existing don't add anything to the OT that was already there. Almost sounds like you got filtered by character building
Lucas defense squad is a bunch of morons protecting literally every aspect of those shitty cartoons. Garbage writing, bad casting, lazy directing, toilet humor, badly aged cartoony action scenes. Even if it's just for attention iit's embarassing even to pretend it. Lately I've seen them lying about Lucas too and his beliefs. Which may be proof that they're bullshitting or they're more delusional than they appear.
Yes it does. Anakin "having some good in him" is not self-evident is in fact an ass-pull in the OT. With PT it ceases to be an ass-pull, due to TPM. We know at some point Anakin was an innocent kid. Without that Vader is simply another ruthless baddie. It would be like writing a cartel member who has a "change of heart". Not likely
>With PT it ceases to be an ass-pull, due to TPM.
Only because of that whole "chosen one" bullshit which lessens the idea that Vader killed Palpatine out of choice rather than destiny. >We know at some point Anakin was an innocent kid. Without that Vader is simply another ruthless baddie
We see him as a defenseless old man at the end of RotJ.
Yes at the end, but not before. You have to infer that we was some kind of conflicted good guy, all while he kills people willy-nilly. That makes it an ass-pull. "Oh he's really just good in the end." On the other hand, we know from 1-6 that palpatine was always a manipulative frick. With the "chosen one" thing, that doesn't have anything to do with Anakin being an innocent, good kid. That is related to the force, where force use has much to do with predicting the future. "I sense a disturbance in the Force" is an intuition force users have, where they sense the future. Destiny is a key component of the series. Choice and Destiny are not always in conflict with each other. It was both Vader's destiny and his own choice.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>You have to infer that we was some kind of conflicted good guy, all while he kills people willy-nilly. That makes it an ass-pull.
Kenobi gave us a simple backstory on Vader where the audience can guess he was good at one point. The whole "conflicted good guy" stuff doesn't start appearing until he reveals that he's Luke's father, and as an audience we can infer that he still obviously has a connection to Luke and a desire for him to join by his side. >"Oh he's really just good in the end."
He was conflicted, his fatherly love for Luke is what brought him out of the dark side.
The prequel trilogy just lessens Vader's redemption because the Jedi predicted that he will be the one to save the galaxy.
Him killing Palpatine "out of destiny" is not the same as "killing him to protect his son because he loves him"
2 years ago
Anonymous
With PT there's more to Vader saving Luke than just fatherly love. It adds more layers to his decisions. The destiny element is interesting. You're interpreting it as if the characters knew with certainty Anakin was the chosen one; but the whole point of 3 is how this is thrown into doubt. Ultimately yes the prophesy is true, but the character's themselves have no clue how it will manifest. This is why it was still Vader's free will and choice. This is more interesting than if there was no theme of destiny or a "chosen one" plot-line. It creates a divine element to the story, making it more mystical.
PT gays are as bad as weebs when it comes to backstory and reasoning for characters actions. NOt everything needs to be explained with betrayals, deaths, traumas etc. the reason vader has a change of heart is quite logical in the OT: His biological imperative to save his child kicks in as he witnesses his kid, a young jedi like he once was, being tortured.
>biological imperative to save his child kicks in
Sociopath take
2 years ago
Anonymous
what
so you would just let your kid die if you saw them tortured
your the sociopath
2 years ago
Anonymous
You're acknowledging the only reason you'd care about your child is "biological imperative"
2 years ago
Anonymous
mostly
you obviously grow more attached to them if you spend time with them, but to a certain degree you have an emotional connection just knowing they are your kin
same reason adopted kids feel the need to reach out to bio parents
2 years ago
Anonymous
If Vader cared solely about biological imperative, they would just go back to their ESB starting point of "Rule the galaxy with me son", except Vader would be dying, so he'd tell Luke to become the new Emperor and rule as a Sith. Biological imperative oversimplifies things to suggest he merely cared about the bio-material he left not being squandered.
kek was just about the post the same thing. "Muh biological imperative" shows you aren't a human being with reason, just acting off impulse like an animal. Congrats
Yeah pretty much.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yes I agree bio imperative sounds very autistic
thats why i tried to clarify in my first post that part of it was the similarity to himself which he witnessed in his son, both being young, strong-willed jedi
2 years ago
Anonymous
I get that, but I also think it was more complex than simply saving his "trophy son", as it were.
Regardless, you've gotten a few salty replies already so there's no reason for me to continue a debate.
2 years ago
Anonymous
kek was just about the post the same thing. "Muh biological imperative" shows you aren't a human being with reason, just acting off impulse like an animal. Congrats
You're ignoring the dark sides effect on people's "biological imperative", interestingly ignoring the mystical side of the force, which is something OTgays tend to jerk too. Sure we don't need to be shown everything. But certain things DO become ass-pulls and contrived-for-the-sake-of-drama nonsense, such as vader being the father and having a change of heart. Seeing anakin turn to the dark side is very fun and compelling to watch; it is compelling seeing how people become corrupt and then redeem themselves. You sound like mid-wit with your "biological imperative" excuse. Such a dumb take. Was it your biological imperative to write such a poorly thought out post?
>shits on the prequels >praises this forgotten fricking garbage in the same breath
I like RLM, I watch RLM, it's good for laughs and fills some of the void that is in my life, but if you take them seriously or you think Mike's opinions aren't pure shit at times there is something wrong with you.
4 is goofy fun and should have been stand-alone
6 is acceptable
123 and 5 are all too serious and homosexual for star wars, same with CW and Rebels
the christmas special is kino
KOTOR is kino
The sequels are trash
I don't mind 2, but it's the weakest out of the good ones (the original 6). RotJ and TPM are around the same ballpark, but they had just a little bit more going for them.
5 > 3 > 4 > 6 > 1 > R1 > 2 > 7 > 8 > 9
Never saw solo. Rogue One is a competently made film but the more I think about it the more I think I'd rather revisit almost any Lucas era film over it.
Revenge of the Sith and Phantom Menace make perfect sense, but Attack of The Clones is a bit muddled. Too many of the steps in Palpatine's plan only work by coincidence. Why delete Kamino from the archives if you need to Jedi to go there to discover the Clone army? Did Palpatine know about the guy in the diner being old friends with Obi-Wan? Did he know that Jango would hire another bounty hunter to kill Padme, then use a weapon only found on Kamino to kill her when she fails?
That's the way I've always seen it. It has some good moments but also some of the weakest writing in the PT.
If any film could be tweaked post-factum, as George liked to do, I think this one could benefit from it.
Then again, the actual period of the clone wars was honestly never as compelling as Obi Wan made it sound in the OT.
The only media centered around that event that I truly enjoyed was Genndy's animated show, and it had more to do with that team of people doing Star Wars, than the actual event.
The period slightly before TPM is a blind spot in the franchise that I think could be explored. But not in terms of going thousands of years in the past, like Kotor. In a similar time frame that the Plegueis novel is set in.
There were still Jedi and Sith (albeit in hiding), and there's a calm before the storm that to me is more interesting than the middle of the mosh pit (the clone wars).
imo the romance in ATOC should have been shown more and improved. And the discovery of the clone army could've been handled better. Also, more elaboration on how the republic would have wanted such an army. ATOC has these answers, but they're so shortly answered that it doesn't feel satisfying. However, I forgive all this since it was more challenging of a plot to write then the others. Its trying to achieve a lot in 2.5 hours
I would put it at the number one spot but it's still great.
I'm especially confident in this opinion because my ex found it thoroughly boring but she liked the ST.
I would put it at the number one spot but it's still great.
I'm especially confident in this opinion because my ex found it thoroughly boring but she liked the ST.
The ST should've just been movies like R1. Not continuations of the Skywalker saga that was already told, but self contained stories about other people, even if they happen to be loosely connected to the PT/OT.
5 > 4 > 3 > 6 > 2 > 1
5 > 4 > 6 > 3 > 1 > 2
Upvoted
I don't use Reddit. Why are you gays obsessed with that site. In most of the threads on this site, which are in the high traffic boards like Cinemaphile, the conversation always turns to "Reddit" . Why is that? What did that place do to live rent free in your minds?
You have to lurk for years or to actually browse reddit but with an open and critical mind.
Reddit can be useful insofar that it's a permanent archive, more or less, unlike Cinemaphile where you won't always find a specific thing you're looking for. And obviously subreddits for any specific topic.
But it's not as "real time" as Cinemaphile, and if you plan on making a post or a comment, it's usually one and done. I won't even delve into the actual site culture as that's obviously different.
Permanent achieve of moronation.
There are archives for Cinemaphile as well.
Yes, but if you have a specific question, you won't find it easily in a Cinemaphile archive.
Whereas simply googling "weird lump on my leg reddit" or "pecan pie recipe" will bring you to a thread full of advice.
The structure of the two is different. Cinemaphile was never truly meant to even have an archive.
You get a thread and a limited number of posts and that's it, it disappears.
Read the fricking manual, download a textbook, figure shit on your own...
You don't need internet morons to explain you anything. Plus when that happens on Cinemaphile it's done better than anywhere else on the internet, with simplistic infographics and idiot proof guides because some autist had to win an argument... since arguments, words is all we have here.
They just stole memes from here that mocked the prequels and made it le hecking wholesome prequel love board
Objectively correct.
only correct answer.
That's pretty much my ranking except I put 3 above 6 because of the ewoks.
3 = 4 = 5 > 6 > 1 > 2
1, 2, 3 > 4, 5, 6
3>2>4>6>5>1
6 would be the best without ewoks
How incredible is it that Lucas made a 6 part epic that fans will constantly argue about the greatness of each episode in comparison with one another. Literally the GOAT.
Fans like to rate things mostly to have something to discuss. Actually I don't think that someone who loves an entire series/coherent story actually ranks parts since those are contingent on the whole.
1<12>3>4>5<6>7[7>9
Fricking homosexuals
5>4>6
Prequels aren't canon
People on Cinemaphile make tier lists that are purposely wrong because it gets replies. They are also afraid of saying what they really believe because that would invite hurtful criticism. It's really tedious. Nobody cares about your controversial takes on onions media.
On Reddit you have to post the most conformist opinion possible so that your account won’t be penalized. On Cinemaphile you have to post the most obnoxious opinion possible so you’re post will get attention.
We see a lot of prequel spam precisely because of this reason. They're shit movies so praising them, even mostly ironic, always gets replies.
3 > 5 > 6 > 1 > 4 > 2
And I enjoy all of them except for 2
2>3>1>4>6>5
the correct answer. I love episode 2.
There's no way Return Of The Jedi is better than any of the prequels
>All that time spent in Jabba's Palace
>fricking around with Ewoks for a while
>OH BUT THOSE FEW SCENES WITH LUKE AND VADER AND THE EMPEROR MAKE UP FOR EVERYTHING!
no they fricking don't
Correct. But we can all agree that RotJ and ESB are the worst of the six.
There entire jabbas palace sequence alone is better than the entire prequel trilogy
The flaw with Jabba's palace is that Luke is kind of a b***h. Luke should have walked in there and rekt the place.
He gave Jabba multiple chances to give up and let them go. When Luke had enough he literally kills everyone there
He gets captured lol.
Then he has r2d2 shoot him his lightsaber as he does a sweet flip and kill everyone. Which is a clearly a call back to obi wans sweet flip he uses against Darth Maul.
>Which is a clearly a call back to obi wans sweet flip he uses against Darth Maul
Do zoomers really think the prequels came first?
Where does this idea that Luke needs to be a literal superhero come from? Is it the old EU comics?
Without the Jabba scene there is no way to show how far Luke has come from being the shy farm boy from Tatoonie. The scene isn't too long, you're just too moronic
5 > 3 > 4 > 6 > 1 > 2
5>6>4>3>2>1
6 is my favorite but it understand its not objectively as good as 5
>we can all agree that RotJ and ESB are the worst of the six.
ESB only truly makes sense and has any power in reference to the prequels, so I'm not really sure what you're arguing. I like all of the movies, and I believe 1-6 comprise the best single film of all time, but 5&6 are objectively the worst.
>ESB only truly makes sense and has any power in reference to the prequels
No it doesn't, the prequels existing don't add anything to the OT that was already there. Almost sounds like you got filtered by character building
*wasn't already there
It's one story. Lucas has made this clear a trillion times. You're not smarter or have more insight than the creator. Sorry.
Those stories don't quite mesh together.
>YOU CANT JUST CRITICIZE A DIRECTOR'S VISION!
Redditor response, go back
Lucas defense squad is a bunch of morons protecting literally every aspect of those shitty cartoons. Garbage writing, bad casting, lazy directing, toilet humor, badly aged cartoony action scenes. Even if it's just for attention iit's embarassing even to pretend it. Lately I've seen them lying about Lucas too and his beliefs. Which may be proof that they're bullshitting or they're more delusional than they appear.
George is a moron
Leia was going to get away regardless of Luke intervening.
Yes it does. Anakin "having some good in him" is not self-evident is in fact an ass-pull in the OT. With PT it ceases to be an ass-pull, due to TPM. We know at some point Anakin was an innocent kid. Without that Vader is simply another ruthless baddie. It would be like writing a cartel member who has a "change of heart". Not likely
*and is in fact an ass-pull
Anakin comes off like a sociopath in the PT
He seemed more like a creepy, depressed kid to me. Even when he smiles it doesn't feel genuine.
He is a disturbed person in 2 and 3. But in 1 we see him in his innocence. Plenty of people go from being nice kids to killers.
I would've gone full dark side mode the moment this happened, unironically
>With PT it ceases to be an ass-pull, due to TPM.
Only because of that whole "chosen one" bullshit which lessens the idea that Vader killed Palpatine out of choice rather than destiny.
>We know at some point Anakin was an innocent kid. Without that Vader is simply another ruthless baddie
We see him as a defenseless old man at the end of RotJ.
Yes at the end, but not before. You have to infer that we was some kind of conflicted good guy, all while he kills people willy-nilly. That makes it an ass-pull. "Oh he's really just good in the end." On the other hand, we know from 1-6 that palpatine was always a manipulative frick. With the "chosen one" thing, that doesn't have anything to do with Anakin being an innocent, good kid. That is related to the force, where force use has much to do with predicting the future. "I sense a disturbance in the Force" is an intuition force users have, where they sense the future. Destiny is a key component of the series. Choice and Destiny are not always in conflict with each other. It was both Vader's destiny and his own choice.
>You have to infer that we was some kind of conflicted good guy, all while he kills people willy-nilly. That makes it an ass-pull.
Kenobi gave us a simple backstory on Vader where the audience can guess he was good at one point. The whole "conflicted good guy" stuff doesn't start appearing until he reveals that he's Luke's father, and as an audience we can infer that he still obviously has a connection to Luke and a desire for him to join by his side.
>"Oh he's really just good in the end."
He was conflicted, his fatherly love for Luke is what brought him out of the dark side.
The prequel trilogy just lessens Vader's redemption because the Jedi predicted that he will be the one to save the galaxy.
Him killing Palpatine "out of destiny" is not the same as "killing him to protect his son because he loves him"
With PT there's more to Vader saving Luke than just fatherly love. It adds more layers to his decisions. The destiny element is interesting. You're interpreting it as if the characters knew with certainty Anakin was the chosen one; but the whole point of 3 is how this is thrown into doubt. Ultimately yes the prophesy is true, but the character's themselves have no clue how it will manifest. This is why it was still Vader's free will and choice. This is more interesting than if there was no theme of destiny or a "chosen one" plot-line. It creates a divine element to the story, making it more mystical.
PT gays are as bad as weebs when it comes to backstory and reasoning for characters actions. NOt everything needs to be explained with betrayals, deaths, traumas etc. the reason vader has a change of heart is quite logical in the OT: His biological imperative to save his child kicks in as he witnesses his kid, a young jedi like he once was, being tortured.
>biological imperative to save his child kicks in
Sociopath take
what
so you would just let your kid die if you saw them tortured
your the sociopath
You're acknowledging the only reason you'd care about your child is "biological imperative"
mostly
you obviously grow more attached to them if you spend time with them, but to a certain degree you have an emotional connection just knowing they are your kin
same reason adopted kids feel the need to reach out to bio parents
If Vader cared solely about biological imperative, they would just go back to their ESB starting point of "Rule the galaxy with me son", except Vader would be dying, so he'd tell Luke to become the new Emperor and rule as a Sith. Biological imperative oversimplifies things to suggest he merely cared about the bio-material he left not being squandered.
Yeah pretty much.
Yes I agree bio imperative sounds very autistic
thats why i tried to clarify in my first post that part of it was the similarity to himself which he witnessed in his son, both being young, strong-willed jedi
I get that, but I also think it was more complex than simply saving his "trophy son", as it were.
Regardless, you've gotten a few salty replies already so there's no reason for me to continue a debate.
kek was just about the post the same thing. "Muh biological imperative" shows you aren't a human being with reason, just acting off impulse like an animal. Congrats
You're ignoring the dark sides effect on people's "biological imperative", interestingly ignoring the mystical side of the force, which is something OTgays tend to jerk too. Sure we don't need to be shown everything. But certain things DO become ass-pulls and contrived-for-the-sake-of-drama nonsense, such as vader being the father and having a change of heart. Seeing anakin turn to the dark side is very fun and compelling to watch; it is compelling seeing how people become corrupt and then redeem themselves. You sound like mid-wit with your "biological imperative" excuse. Such a dumb take. Was it your biological imperative to write such a poorly thought out post?
Congratulations you have posted the most moronic opinion in Cinemaphile history! I hope you go back to your subreddit soon.
watch the RLM reviews
watch my butthole pinch off a shit
>shits on the prequels
>praises this forgotten fricking garbage in the same breath
I like RLM, I watch RLM, it's good for laughs and fills some of the void that is in my life, but if you take them seriously or you think Mike's opinions aren't pure shit at times there is something wrong with you.
4>5>6>3>2>1
3>1>5>2>4>6
4 is goofy fun and should have been stand-alone
6 is acceptable
123 and 5 are all too serious and homosexual for star wars, same with CW and Rebels
the christmas special is kino
KOTOR is kino
The sequels are trash
>praises christmas special and kotor in the same breath
you're a weird individual
8>5>4>3>6>1>2>7>9
>even rating 7, 8, and 9
Get out of this thread.
>Acknowledging disney trash 7,8,9
Go back to lereddit dork
2 > 3 > 5 > 1 > 4 > 6 > 7 > 8 > 9
5>4>6=3>1=2
3>5>4>1>6>2
5 > 4 > 7 > 3 > 6 > 8 > 9 > 1 > 2
I'm convinced anyone who ranks RotS highly is trolling.
There is no 'the' in Rise of Skywalker
3>=1>4>=2>6>5
5 > 4 > 3 > 6 > 1 > 2
>all these redditors ranking 2 the lowest
Disdain for plebs
I don't mind 2, but it's the weakest out of the good ones (the original 6). RotJ and TPM are around the same ballpark, but they had just a little bit more going for them.
I've yet too se a convincing defense for 2. It's truly abyssmal. And no saying that it has shots inspired by classic cinema is not a good defense
That's because you have an idiotic worldview and probably asinine politics
6>5>4>3>1>2
5 > 3 > 4 > 6 > 1 > R1 > 2 > 7 > 8 > 9
Never saw solo. Rogue One is a competently made film but the more I think about it the more I think I'd rather revisit almost any Lucas era film over it.
Does anyone have a link to the 35mm version of TPM?
>NOOOO THE PREQUELS MADE NO SENSE NOOOOOO
Palpatine's political maneuverings went over the head of every plebeian. No, it wasn't stupid, you are.
Nice strawman
Revenge of the Sith and Phantom Menace make perfect sense, but Attack of The Clones is a bit muddled. Too many of the steps in Palpatine's plan only work by coincidence. Why delete Kamino from the archives if you need to Jedi to go there to discover the Clone army? Did Palpatine know about the guy in the diner being old friends with Obi-Wan? Did he know that Jango would hire another bounty hunter to kill Padme, then use a weapon only found on Kamino to kill her when she fails?
That's the way I've always seen it. It has some good moments but also some of the weakest writing in the PT.
If any film could be tweaked post-factum, as George liked to do, I think this one could benefit from it.
Then again, the actual period of the clone wars was honestly never as compelling as Obi Wan made it sound in the OT.
The only media centered around that event that I truly enjoyed was Genndy's animated show, and it had more to do with that team of people doing Star Wars, than the actual event.
The period slightly before TPM is a blind spot in the franchise that I think could be explored. But not in terms of going thousands of years in the past, like Kotor. In a similar time frame that the Plegueis novel is set in.
There were still Jedi and Sith (albeit in hiding), and there's a calm before the storm that to me is more interesting than the middle of the mosh pit (the clone wars).
The period in between ANH and ESB, or between that and RotJ is also kind of a blind spot.
imo the romance in ATOC should have been shown more and improved. And the discovery of the clone army could've been handled better. Also, more elaboration on how the republic would have wanted such an army. ATOC has these answers, but they're so shortly answered that it doesn't feel satisfying. However, I forgive all this since it was more challenging of a plot to write then the others. Its trying to achieve a lot in 2.5 hours
wait i thought Syfo Diyas or whoever deleted it so it couldnt fall into palpatines hands
Am i just moronic?
i mean so palpys plan would fail, obv he knows about Kamino
I watched 1 and 2 so far and there's no reason to rate them, one should watch them together.
Maybe I'll feel the same about 3.
4
3 > 2 > 1 > 6 > 4 > 5
5 > 4 > 1 > 3 > 2 > 6
Rogue One > 4 >>> 5 > 6 > 3 > Solo > 1 > 2
I would put it at the number one spot but it's still great.
I'm especially confident in this opinion because my ex found it thoroughly boring but she liked the ST.
The ST should've just been movies like R1. Not continuations of the Skywalker saga that was already told, but self contained stories about other people, even if they happen to be loosely connected to the PT/OT.
6 > 5 > 4 > 3 > 2 > 1
5>1>3>R1>6>8>1>2>who gives a shit
5=4>3>shit> the rest