>Lord: I'd say if anything has evolved since the pitch, it's that the show got more affectionate for all the characters, and it got a lot more sympathetic. The things that turned out to be the funniest were the ones that were honestly the warmest.
>Rivinoja: We always thought that Abe was the hero in it and he was our POV guy and we loved him, and people don’t. People hate Abe and think he’s such a turd. Chris and Phil were like, “We need more Abe stories,” and I was trying to say, “A lot of these young writers don’t want to hear from Abe ever again.” Even though at the time we thought Abe was our way in, I think it was really Joan.
not watching, get woke go broke. bring back gandhi
Rivinoja isnt a zoomer you moron, she was one of the original writers for season 1, but I do hate that she said this
>and I was trying to say, “A lot of these young writers don’t want to hear from Abe ever again
Neither of them are the same people they were when they wrote Clone High, and it was nothing short of moronic to believe that they'd be able to jump back to a 20 year old parody of primetime dramas and write something as witty and funny as they did when they were younger and more creative.
He's not talking about Rivinoja, he's talking about the young writers Rivinoja mentioned.
> “A lot of these young writers don’t want to hear from Abe ever again.”
Frick you for begging for a season 2, the show belongs to us now
Frick you
And frick you for watching
Holy frick that quote makes me so angry. It's like the shows own writers completely missed the fricking satire of the original. Abe was written as oblivious as a joke to make FUN of soap operas with love triangle potlines like that. I'm kinda glad I can't watch the new season with quotes like that.
Blame shippers. They always interpret every scene to their advantage, meaning that if if their ship isn't being confirmed every second they void their bowels with anger. And Abe being an ignorant dope to the fact Joan wanted him to bone her is condemnation worthy in their eyes, never mind how she also refused to just say it as part of the love triangle dance.
If they wanted to have their cake and eat it too then Abe should've said Cleo when he defrosted then teamed up with Topher to be the antagonist instead of just some hanger on.
I don't see any reason to like Abe besides contrarianism. Maybe some anons projecting on him because he was le relatable nice guy
I like Will Forte and he's much more likable this season compared to Joan.
That's because you're a shitty person.
The relatable nice guy is the protagonist in every movie and show because pt like him
I thought it was because writers saw themselves as nice guys.
Abe's gag of being completely oblivious to Joan liking him was really funny in season 1, but without that he doesn't have a whole lot going for him.
Also, with the show having ditched the satirical faux moral lessons of the episodes, Abe's role as being the person to learn something doesn't work.
And with the new show being more sincere, that lesson learning would feel patronizing and boring without being cynical and ironic.
Season 2 has such an imbalance of the original’s chemistry. They don’t know how to write Abe now that Gandhi’s gone, Joan is uninterested, and Cleo does nothing. JFK and Joan have absolutely no connections so their relationship offers nothing yet they spent so much time on it. They changed everything but had nothing else to consider after the fact, it’s all so, meandering.
Agreed. The lack of Gandhi is really hurting things.
Abe was likeable and his interactions with Gandhi were fun. Him being totally oblivious to Joan was funny even though it made you cringe sometimes. He's a parody of all those nice but awkward teen drama protagonists and worked with the show.
No it's because he's an awkward douchebag who just happens to be the least douchebaggy character in a cast of douchebags because it's a comedy cartoon not some fricking serious shit.
It's 2023 and SJWs don't even understand the concept of humor, which says a lot I suppose.
I always thought Abe was written to be unlikable as a parody of teen dramas. The supposed antagonists Scudsworth and JFK voiced by Lord and Miller are everyone's favorite characters. I thought that was a parody as well.
Yeah I mean his entire motivation is pretty shallow, he wants to have sex with Cleo. Now that's a relatable motivation because I want to have sex with Cleo too but it's hard to deny the fact that in doing so he hurt Joan, a girl who actually likes him.
You don't have to be a real piece of shit to be unlikable.
>Abe wants to date the popular girl, is ecstatic when it actually happens but constantly has to maintain this status quo, is comically unaware that his best friend likes him
>What a piece of shit, I hope he never speaks again
>Joan wants to be popular now that she's accepted by the popular clique, even if it means ignoring her best friends, dates the misogynistic jock because it feels good, breaks up with him because he's not her dream guy
>celebrated for it
Hurr durr. The show was good because it was wildly goofy and totally took itself seriously by contrast. As opposed to today's bullshit where it's preachy and basic and takes itself incredibly more seriously in a self-serving manner.
>What a piece of shit, I hope he never speaks again
That's funny because I literally said that abe doesn't have to be a piece of shit to be unlikable.
Maybe because that was the plot behind all those cheesy teenage dramas they were making fun of?
Did zoom zoom never watch one? Was there no 2 hour YouTube analysis video on them?
I think you don't know what you're saying and just regurgitating words for any kind of reaction.
https://m.imdb.com/list/ls054393241/
https://en.ava360.com/top-10-good-boybad-girl-movies_ac4ed277a.html
Pic related is the best one
I think you don't know what you're saying and just regurgitating words for any kind of reaction.
>Maybe because that was the plot behind all those cheesy teenage dramas they were making fun of?
Yeah but that still means Abe is an unlikable dick though because those guys were unlikable dicks.
That's the joke m8.
>It's a popular trope because people don't like it
>That's why they made so many movies about it
>That's why they made so much money
Just because it's popular doesn't mean it's infallible.
Now I got to ask, do you understand what Clone High was going for?
it already worked?
did you watch the first season?
Yeah I watched the first season, watched back on youtube in the spring of 06, but you're dodging my question here.
so people hated abe so they watched the abe show out of spite
i guess when when abe kissed ghandi to stop people from discriminating him because he has adhd that was unlikable
by the way you didnt watch the show on 06, only zoomers reply by stating exactly when they started doing something when acussed of being new, i have no fricking idea when i watched clone high, all i remember is that i was a teenager, its like asking me when san andreas came out, i hink i was 15 when i played it but i couldnt tell you without a google search
Not him, but I remember first seeing Clone High back when it was new at a friend's house. I didn't get into it until last year personally, wish I watched it sooner. At least I didn't have to wait long for new episodes.
>rushing to reply back
>not him
sure
zoomer
How could I be him? I've already contradicted his "first time watching Clone High" story.
because you are lying?
I just wanted to share my story. For years I dismissed Clone High as just "that show my friend used to like."
remember when you had to wait before posting so a fricking teenager wouldnt spam you back each time you post?
Yeah, but it's better this way.
jesus christ, im taking this thread out of the thread watcher
And I'm back, sorry for the delay replying. I'm actually not a teenager btw. You said I was a teenager, but I'm actually 34 years old. Just correcting your error.
>a girl who actually likes him.
Cleo?
Sincerity and parody are both not allowed now. Everything must be post-ironic metacommentary about the state of the real world.
As a teen drama parody Clone High was already in that category though.
It absolutely was not.
It was. The 2000s ruined sincerity.
I’m so sick of this shit already. The only thing that did it well was Everything Everywhere. Nothing else produced by these fricking hack millennial writers has come close to being anything but commentary on the media they consume.
>hotdog fingers
>ratatouille for 3 minutes
>buttplug is a major prop
Nah
I actively avoid Everything Everywhere despite how much of a masterpiece people say it is cause I'm so sick of le multiverse shit unless it's Spider-Verse, I checked out during the trailer the instant the lead said "ate you saying there's a multiverse??" the exact same way Peter said it in FFH
In Everything Everywhere, the multiverse plotline serves as a metaphor for modern life and both the huge abudence of information on the internet, and how we're all "in our own little worlds" metaphorically. The villain of the movie may as well have come from Cinemaphile itself. And the ultimate message of the movie is to accept that you are just one small part of the larger world, and find meaning in simple things like your family and everyday life. Don't ignore the "everything", just live your life.
It's a very good movie with a real message.
It's very obviously Joan and the show is so much worse for it.
>Abe doesn't tell Joan that JFK and Harriett kissed, despite the fact this could actually benefit him and break them up, because he's worried about her medical condition
>The other two are immediately forgiven and Abe has to apologize to her over it
Fricking horseshit from these dumb frick "young writers."
What's insane is how quickly it gets resolved
>Jfk and new character kiss
>Oh no they like each other this will create drama
>Solved by the next episode
>New character has a crush on cunfusious
>They will certainly be part of the story somehow
>Solved by the next episode
>Friday has a crush on Cleo
>Solved by the next episode
Do they really expect 4 seasons? What the frick are the episodes going to be about? Half of clone high was about abe making an ass of himself and joan being miserable, I don't buy the Abe is no longer the main character shit because he is the only character left with a motivation
Seriously come up with five episodes not including him
more proof the younger generations are unfit for life just like the boomers.
Who cares, this useless douchebag is standing in the way of new better characters like Topher
I haven't and might not watched season 2 but who the hell came to Clone High looking for "sympathy and warmth" over silly jokes about a bunch of cloned historical characters doing wacky shit.
The show is summed up by JFK with that No Fat Chicks shirt.
>The show is summed up by JFK with that No Fat Chicks shirt.
Funny the new writers want to erase that side of JFK, you can blatantly tell they are playing personal favorites and rewriting history. They've discarded Cleo for the same reason Abe got turned on, zoomer writers hate on her.
>tfw remember JFK being a jerk
>They made him HECKIN' WHOLESOME
He was a jerk who was a good guy on the inside, but still a jerk, I don't get it.
The same homosexual who wanted Beavis and Butt-Head to be about Development and called Beavis 'Beavy'.
Remember when he shot cats with a BB gun? Pretty checking wholesome big chungus heart of gold of him
I fricking forgot about that holy shit.
I'm not surprised that people ignored this.
It's the season finale revisionism that gets me, I keep seeing people talking about his character development and all I can think is "what?"
The one where he's smiling his ass off while Joan is freaking out because he just managed to take advantage of her emotional low-point to sleep with her?
The whole joke was that he knew he was the "she slept with the other" guy twist and he was reveling in it
I agree with this, it feels like they saw all the JFK memes over the years and thought people liked him for the way he acted in the last episode.
Their new good natured JFK also makes Joan seem more shallow when she will just dump him because she had a smarter version of him for a day and can't handle dating a moron
I think the new show is designed to appeal to the zoomer tumblr/tik tok crowd who watched the show in 2020 but liked it for things the show wasn't.
These people actually shipped the characters and got involved with the story, which in a satirical parody, is the opposite of the intention.
So the new show is focused on what that audience would want, a (somewhat cringeworthy) sincere rom com.
This, combined with how the show now forces in characters from the original who act complete out of character because they're in the wrong show, makes the second season suffer.
>These people actually shipped the characters and got involved with the story, which in a satirical parody, is the opposite of the intention.
They also cannot understand satire because it requires you to be not moronic.
>the new writers of the show literally do not understand it
No wonder it's so shit.
I hope Abe shoots up clone high
I hope he mods Half-Life Otis into GTA 3.
>zoomer writers
I genuinely do no believe that there is a zoomer in that entire writing room and like always Cinemaphile doesn't know what that word even is.
I can see some 90s bone zoomers in the writer's room. The oldest would be 26.
God
>We always thought that Abe was the hero in it and he was our POV guy and we loved him, and people don’t. People hate Abe and think he’s such a turd. Chris and Phil were like, “We need more Abe stories,” and I was trying to say, “A lot of these young writers don’t want to hear from Abe ever again.
>Chris and Phil were like, “We need more Abe stories,” and I was trying to say, “A lot of these young writers don’t want to hear from Abe ever again.
That was my worst fear for the revival and it came true. I liked Abe and thought it was lame how people didn't get the character, taking his obliviousness too seriously.
I agree. Looking back at the original, the hate mob against Abe just seems so petty and unwarranted. It's not like I don't relate. I used to intensely dislike certain cartoon characters as a severely autistic 14-year-old. But I was a severely autistic 14-year-old, and people like that should never have any say in the direction a show actually goes. Between this show and Rick and Morty, I genuinely think social media has the power to corrupt people's creative vision.
The constant access to fans makes pandering that much easier. So you're not completely in that it corrupts creative vision.
>So you're not completely in that it corrupts creative vision.
?
I think he just left out a word
"So you're not completely 'wrong' in that it corrupts creative vision"
>an entire generation missed the point of the show and are directly responsible for ruining the show
Now I understand why Cinemaphile hates zoomers.
How come they haven't brought John back yet? He was a really cool character.
Who do you think Joan is? They had to shove in LGBT shit somewhere.
What do you mean? Joan doesn't have a mustache like John.
Yeah, people usually shave when they transition. John was a perfectly good character before they ruined him to pander to the Ts.
That is clearly John Dark.
That guy could get chicks pregnant just by looking at them.
>Joan was John
You're a fricking idiot if you think this is true, Joan is a GIRL and John was a MAN.
>Joan is a GIRL and John was a MAN.
WAS a man. Was.
He disappeared, he could be dead, he's probably in the freezer with Gandi.
Joan = John
It's been confirmed on Twitter.
>Doubles down on his lie
Save yourself the embarrassment.
>overdosing on copium
Not a good look.
I'm going to need a source.
Wow, they actually did it.
I hate how they changed Joan's head
I always thought he head looked weird before and can see why they did it. But now I miss it. "You don't know what you've got until it's gone."
The change might have something to do with this
he let that get to him for 20 years
Hi Aaron.
frick it looks so awkward now, I hate it
Frankly the new season makes me think they should have made a show with a whole new cast rather than keep the old cast in a butchered, gimped fashion.
All of the new characters are fun to watch and likeable.
Meanwhile the old cast (minus Cleopatra) is annoying as hell with JFK loosing his whole edge, Joan becoming way more annoying than Abe was in season one (and, unlike Abe, S2 Joan isn't annoying for a funny gag)
Abe just doesn't do a whole lot, he's lost his only jokes and now only exists for boring drama.
Cleo doesn't do a whole lot anymore, but when she appears she's still fun (even though she's different) I hope she's given more roles later on.
>All of the new characters are fun to watch and likeable.
Why lie like this
Damage control for the show
abe wasnt even the MC of the first season
what show were yall watching ?
He was the closest to a MC
High School of Clones
It feels like the people writing season 2 only remember JFK from the Ponce episode and that one scene with Joan on prom night
>troony fetishist thinks these are the same person
They look NOTHING alike. Actually lmaoing at your life.
Abe was always boring, his scenes were the worst ones. Well, except the ones who had that homoerotic feel with Gandhi, but I don't think they will play it for fun, considering the current trends.
I get it Topher. I'd blackmail for the love of a white woman too.
How does Topher know his mom is terrible at blowjobs?
season 2 is so fricking bad, I normally don’t give a shit about woke shit if it’s otherwise good, but I had to draw the line since it wasn’t even funny
>white guy confidence
>with fricking Abe
>and Cleo NOT being confident
I literally stopped after that song and I have 0 intention of continuing it through HBO/official channels
although frankly, I probably won’t even pirate it
I hope their analytics see it
>no ghandi
>JFK castrated
>Cleo VA change for the worse
>satirical elements dropped
>shoehorned new characters muddying up the plot and splitting such a short run time with even more characters
>Abe non-existent
this season is an abomination
>he is not trans and therefore does not represent our interests
Truly everyone born after 1999 is doomed.
>woke writer replaces white men with a women
I mean you have to be absolutely moronic to be shocked about that happening.
glad i never watched season 2
I can't imagine Miller and Lord will let Abe be completely thrown under the bus. The quote there shows they care about him.
My hope is the first episodes were just hard on Abe to satisfy the Abe haters and to add drama. Teen breakups and love triangles is standard stuff for this type of show, so it doesn't bother me yet. Plus if they go hard on him at first, they can convince people to feel sorry for him and start rooting for him again. That's my hopeful theory. Last two episodes are already pointing towards him and Joan having another shot at being together.
They will. They’ve become woke turbo-homosexuals themselves.
say what?
Abe is only relatable in a pre-Scott Pilgrim world.
this season has too many new characters to juggle and it feels a little aimless.
I would prefer if all other were less involved in the story.
>Lord and Miller
>we don't really want to make a Peter Parker movie we'll only do it if it's about Miles
>also Lord and Miller
>NOOOO ABE IS THE PROTAGONIST OF CLONE HIGH HE SHOULD BE THE POV
Good, frick them