Disliked both immensely, even as a kid. A Schumacher Cut of Forever could probably be a lot better but unless it also cut out entire sequences and characters it would still be lousy .
Forever is awful, if you grew up with it, ok. But it's truly shit. The opening vault thing's about the ony cool part. Carey is brutal, just a lesser version of his better roles for which he was cast, just le wacky guy, and the great TLJ in the same mode.
i mean if you know about the dumb shit jim carrey does on set, you know that tommy's more than justified. if anything it's a damn shame this hasn't happened to jim carrey more
>it made literally every single person watching it horny
Nnno. Not me. As a 7-year-old, I was hoping for a good Batman movie and was too disappointed to bother paying attention to the rest of it.
>it made literally every single person watching it horny
Nnno. Not me. As a 7-year-old, I was hoping for a good Batman movie and was too disappointed to bother paying attention to the rest of it.
Batman Returns made me horny. Batman and Robin did nothing for me.
I hate her fricking outfit at the end. That pink spandex looks like shit, I don’t understand why they didn’t hot glue a few more vines to it or something…
They're fine kids movies but that's it also Batman out of character in Batman and Robin, Batman should always be the straight man but Clooney makes him too self aware.
Nah, people say this but it's not true.Their intention, maybe, but Clooney doens't play the role straight enough. He's two seconds away from chuckling to himself for most of the scenes he's BAtman. What made West work is how deadly serious he presented himself.
Batman Forever's original script is pretty good. If you only focus on Batman and Robin's Mr. Freeze plot and Alfred being sick, there's an almost decent movie in there.
i remember poison ivy giving me one of my first boners. shame uma couldn't keep that first costume and they kept giving her increasingly uglier costumes
This is something modern writers really just have no clue. Poison Ivy was supposed to be the femme fatale hot girl that uses her ass as a weapon and ensnares men. Now she is just another strong woman feminist nobody. Like everyone else.
I was surprised by how evil this version of Ivy ended up being. She even stopped giving a shit about plants by the end. She just wanted to bang Freeze and murder many people.
This was before writers decided she was a poor misunderstood queer icon ecowarrior being held back by society, so she was still allowed to be a murderous b***h.
They're eh. I will say that the music of Batman Forever is pretty good though. I found myself humming the main theme a lot after seeing it for the first time this year.
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Personally I think their titles should have been reversed. Batman & Robin makes more sense to be the third one, and Batman Forever fits better for the fourth one.
Forever still kept that dark tone because Tim Burton was still on as a producer. Batman and Robin is still an entertaining film if you look at it as a modern interpretation of Adam West's Batman.
What the frick was Tommy Lee Jones' Two Face supposed to be in Forever? The character looks like him but he acts more like Nicholson's Joker and Carrey's Riddler than anything like Two-Face. Two-Face is SUPPOSED to seem like a normal cunning man with a side that fully exhibits his natural evil desires, literally Jekyll and Hyde in plain view, needing the coin to help him decide his morality. Did Schumacher not realize this when he wrote him?
Batman Forever is boring. Batman and Robin is great. The original is better than both and Returns is better than Forever. Though, Kilmer is much better than Clooney and its not even close. George was a total charisma vacuum in that movie, it was everyone else who made it enjoyable.
I'm not sure just what in the frick made Schumacker look at the Batman franchise in 1994 and think >Wow modern fans really REALLY love this new grim dark and brooding take on Batman with gothic feel! It made WB millions! >That means modern 90s fans REALLY want to see the old campy light-hearted Adam West show but with even more one liners and gags everywhere performed by comedians! Neon lights, and dial up the gay some more!
The man was thinking with his dick the entire time.
Blame WB and parents groups who whined and complained endlessly about how dark Batman Returns was. WB basically pivoted the franchise to be super campy and light and ‘for kids’ so they could sell toys and merch without parents groups b***hing
It's funny, because Forever and Batman and Robin are so infamous, I always thought Schumacher's whole filmography would be gaudy, effects laden films that the 90's were full with, like Judge Dredd, Lost in Space, Independence Day, basically like Roland Emmerich..but nope.
He's actually a really great director and most of his films would suit the template they go with darker Batman.
>Why in all frick were Gotham gangs neon tube gays I have no idea
One thing about Schumacher people forget is that even in the 90's he was fairly old. He was born in the 40's. Some of the first contact he had with Batman was the Dick Sprang era comics. His whole approach was that he wanted to make it feel like a colorful 40's-50's comic.
Yeah I know literal neon painted gangsters weren't in comics back then. Bare with me.
Saw what you will about the films (they’re guilty pleasures to me) but I think what I liked about Schumacher was his professionalism. I saw a little blurb of him talking about B&R and said something like “if anybody didn’t like the movie, then that falls on me as the director, that’s my responsibility as the director”. Are there any directors nowadays that would be willing to accept the mantle of responsibility in the managing role like that?
I always thought If Nicholson and Carey switched roles they wold have been perfect.
Carey as the wacky, jokey clownish buffoon guy would be a great Joker . He even has the tall, lanky, skinny build for it.
While Nicholson as the creepy, cerebral guy that makes totally random lines that sound odd but make sense in some other context, which he did sort of do in the movie as Joker. Would have been a lot better.
I feel like his whole >Ever dance with the devil
thing he did throughout the movie seems much more Riddler-esque than something Joker would have done. After that, dial down the wacky stuff and just be more of the mob boss guy he was before the acid bath.
>Nicholson as The Riddler
Non sense, rubbish, what's wrong with you?
If you wanted an older Riddler that was on par with Nicholson's creepyness, there's far better options that could've worked. For instance: >Robin Williams (the most popular one) >Christopher Lloyd >Steve Buscemi >Anthony Hopkins
with his widow's peak he could've made an interesting Golden age riddler.
And just how in the frick is Jim "Ace Ventura" Carey supposed to work out as Joker? What social commentary does he create? How does he relate to people shunned by society? Do you even know a single fricking aspect of what Joker means and represents at all? Or is he nothing but funny clown man to you?
>What social commentary does he create? How does he relate to people shunned by society? Do you even know a single fricking aspect of what Joker means and represents at all?
Why can you homosexuals let Joker be funny instead of society man for once?
>Nicholson as The Riddler
Non sense, rubbish, what's wrong with you?
If you wanted an older Riddler that was on par with Nicholson's creepyness, there's far better options that could've worked. For instance: >Robin Williams (the most popular one) >Christopher Lloyd >Steve Buscemi >Anthony Hopkins
A local arthouse theater did a double billing of Batman '66 and Batman & Robin a few months ago. B&R is worse than I remembered. Like this is one of the worst films I've ever seen in a theater that had a legit budget and actors that didn't involve some sort of religious cult.
'66 was even more fun these days than it used to be.
>B&R is worse than I remembered. Like this is one of the worst films I've ever seen in a theater that had a legit budget and actors that didn't involve some sort of religious cult.
and yet somehow it was still better than Batman v Superman, which seems insane to think about.
Man of Steel was so dreary that I skipped BvS. I've tried to watch it on cable and just can't make it through.
I can't buy the whole "Batman and Robin is fine if you look at it as a 90's version of the Adam West show" because I could have fun with Adam West Batman but cannot stand B&R for some reason.
Again, I watched them back to back and the difference couldn't be more stark.
Largely because '66 Gotham was a relatively normal place for the most part but with really weird people that played everything perfectly straight living there while B&R Gotham had ridiculously over-the-top architecture and people.
>Again, I watched them back to back and the difference couldn't be more stark. >Largely because '66 Gotham was a relatively normal place for the most part but with really weird people that played everything perfectly straight living there while B&R Gotham had ridiculously over-the-top architecture and people.
Its so surreal in 66 that Gotham is just a normal and rather nice place to live but with crazy wacky people livin causing trouble, dont know if the comics at the time were still protraying gotham as a noir city with crime or they started going by the ''Gotham is a hellhole'' thing, on a side note, bless the late Anton Furst for making the perfect Gotham aesthethics in 89 (the movie), sadly he didnt survived to direct the 2nd film, and that one took a bit of a nosedive.
>Again, I watched them back to back and the difference couldn't be more stark. >Largely because '66 Gotham was a relatively normal place for the most part but with really weird people that played everything perfectly straight living there while B&R Gotham had ridiculously over-the-top architecture and people.
Its so surreal in 66 that Gotham is just a normal and rather nice place to live but with crazy wacky people livin causing trouble, dont know if the comics at the time were still protraying gotham as a noir city with crime or they started going by the ''Gotham is a hellhole'' thing, on a side note, bless the late Anton Furst for making the perfect Gotham aesthethics in 89 (the movie), sadly he didnt survived to direct the 2nd film, and that one took a bit of a nosedive.
>Largely because '66 Gotham was a relatively normal place for the most part but with really weird people that played everything perfectly straight living there while B&R Gotham had ridiculously over-the-top architecture and people.
I think what made 89 Batman work was that everyone in the movie except for Batman and Joker were normal people. It was like two cartoon characters managed to cross into the normal world. Since cartoon logic and cartoon physics worked for them, but only them. And everyone else had normal reactions to them. Batman Returns messed this up by having all the main characters being cartoon logic characters. Nothing was grounded.
Batman Forever had weird neon Gotham with caricatures everywhere. Everyone in Wayne enterprises was a stock toon character, the gangs were some kind of electric neon power rangers thing. Batman and Robin was even worse, everyone in the whole movie was some kind of cartoon character played out in real like like the Flintstones movie.
>BATMAN RETURNS underperformed at the box office, which Warner attributed to the film’s dark tone. They decided to make the franchise more family-friendly, and Tim Burton declined to return. Sam Raimi was considered to direct before Joel Schumacher was hired.
>Schumacher wanted to make a prequel adapting Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One", but WB declined in favor of a sequel, so Schumacher added flashback sequences exploring Batman's past, but most of them were later cut.
>Michael Keaton declined to return after Burton's departure. Mel Gibson, Daniel Day-Lewis, Alec Baldwin, William Baldwin, Kurt Russell, Johnny Depp, Ralph Fiennes and Ethan Hawke were considered to replace him before Val Kilmer was cast.
>Burton had previously cast Marlon Wayans as Robin, but Schumacher decided not to use him. Leonardo DiCaprio, Tobey Maguire, Mark Wahlberg, Matt Damon, Jude Law, Ewan McGregor, Toby Stephens and Scott Speedman were considered before Chris O'Donnell was cast.
>Schumacher also decided not to bring back Billy Dee Williams as Two-Face. Mel Gibson, Al Pacino, Robert De Niro, Willem Dafoe and Nicolas Cage were considered before Tommy Lee Jones was cast.
>Rene Russo was originally cast as Dr. Chase Meridian before producers decided she was too old for Kilmer. Linda Hamilton, Jeanne Tripplehorn, Sandra Bullock and Robin Wright were considered before Nicole Kidman was cast.
>Steve Martin and Robin Williams were considered for the Riddler before Jim Carrey was cast. Prior to his departure, Burton envisioned the Riddler as a serial killer with a question mark carved into his forehead.
>Carrey was supposed to shave his hair in the shape of a question mark, but this idea was abandoned because he was going through a divorce at the time and couldn't appear in court looking like that.
was supposed to shave his hair in the shape of a question mark, but this idea was abandoned because he was going through a divorce at the time and couldn't appear in court looking like that.
kek
I feel like no matter what Jim Carey was always going to be in this movie based on the fact that he was the hottest name in Hollywood in 94-95. Batman was the hottest franchise in the early 90s. If the villains were Ras al Ghul and Zsasz, one of them would be Carey bouncing around in his usual goofy way.
>Val Kilmer dropped out due to his conflicts with Schumacher. William Baldwin and David Duchovny were considered to replace him before George Clooney was cast.
>Olivia d'Abo was considered for Batgirl before Alicia Silverstone was cast.
>Julia Roberts, Demi Moore and Sharon Stone were considered for Poison Ivy before Uma Thurman was cast.
>Patrick Stewart, Anthony Hopkins and Ed Harris were considered for Mister Freeze before Arnold Schwarzenegger was cast.
>Schumacher believed Mister Freeze should be "chiseled like an ice sculpture" rather than a frail old man, while Schwarzenegger pushed for Freeze to wear an armored suit to make him more intimidating.
>Early drafts feature Poison Ivy murdering Bruce Wayne's girlfriend Julie Madison, but this was considered too dark.
>WB was already developing a sequel, BATMAN UNCHAINED, which would feature Nicolas Cage as Scarecrow and Madonna as Harley Quinn, when movie’s massive critical and commercial failure led them to scrap their plans.
And the plot of the unproduced fifth movie.
>BATMAN UNCHAINED is the unproduced sequel to 1997’s BATMAN & ROBIN. The script featured Batman fighting crime alone once again after Robin leaves Gotham due to disagreements about Batman’s methods and Batgirl returns to England to complete her studies. Meanwhile, biochemist Jonathan Crane, who wants revenge on Bruce Wayne for cutting his research funds, joins forces with toymaker Harley Quinn, who wants revenge on Batman for the death of her father, the Joker, and they expose Batman to the fear toxin and lock him up at Arkham Asylum.
>At Arkham, Batman is put on trial by hallucinations of his past enemies – the Joker, the Penguin, Catwoman, Two-Face and the Riddler – but ultimately conquers his fears and manages to escape. He then makes amends with Robin and they join forces to prevent Crane, now calling himself “Scarecrow”, from spreading the fear toxin through Gotham. Harley, who doesn’t want to hurt innocents, betrays Crane and helps the heroes stop him. Crane and Harley are arrested, and Batman leaves Robin – now calling himself “Nightwing” – to protect Gotham while he goes on a spiritual journey to the Middle East.
>Joel Schumacher was set to direct and was eager to make a “darker, emotionally complex” movie to make up for BATMAN & ROBIN. Chris O’Donnell, Michael Gough and Pat Hingle were set to return as Robin, Alfred and Commissioner Gordon. George Clooney declined to return as Batman, and Ralph Fiennes was eyed to replace him. Schumacher approached Nicolas Cage for Scarecrow and Madonna for Harley Quinn, and wanted to bring back Jack Nicholson, Danny De Vito, Michelle Pfeiffer, Tommy Lee Jones and Jim Carrey for special appearances, but the project was scrapped after the critical and commercial failure of BATMAN & ROBIN.
>Val Kilmer dropped out due to his conflicts with Schumacher. William Baldwin and David Duchovny were considered to replace him before George Clooney was cast.
>Olivia d'Abo was considered for Batgirl before Alicia Silverstone was cast.
>Julia Roberts, Demi Moore and Sharon Stone were considered for Poison Ivy before Uma Thurman was cast.
>Patrick Stewart, Anthony Hopkins and Ed Harris were considered for Mister Freeze before Arnold Schwarzenegger was cast.
>Schumacher believed Mister Freeze should be "chiseled like an ice sculpture" rather than a frail old man, while Schwarzenegger pushed for Freeze to wear an armored suit to make him more intimidating.
>Early drafts feature Poison Ivy murdering Bruce Wayne's girlfriend Julie Madison, but this was considered too dark.
>WB was already developing a sequel, BATMAN UNCHAINED, which would feature Nicolas Cage as Scarecrow and Madonna as Harley Quinn, when movie’s massive critical and commercial failure led them to scrap their plans.
>BATMAN UNCHAINED is the unproduced sequel to 1997’s BATMAN & ROBIN. The script featured Batman fighting crime alone once again after Robin leaves Gotham due to disagreements about Batman’s methods and Batgirl returns to England to complete her studies. Meanwhile, biochemist Jonathan Crane, who wants revenge on Bruce Wayne for cutting his research funds, joins forces with toymaker Harley Quinn, who wants revenge on Batman for the death of her father, the Joker, and they expose Batman to the fear toxin and lock him up at Arkham Asylum.
>At Arkham, Batman is put on trial by hallucinations of his past enemies – the Joker, the Penguin, Catwoman, Two-Face and the Riddler – but ultimately conquers his fears and manages to escape. He then makes amends with Robin and they join forces to prevent Crane, now calling himself “Scarecrow”, from spreading the fear toxin through Gotham. Harley, who doesn’t want to hurt innocents, betrays Crane and helps the heroes stop him. Crane and Harley are arrested, and Batman leaves Robin – now calling himself “Nightwing” – to protect Gotham while he goes on a spiritual journey to the Middle East.
>Joel Schumacher was set to direct and was eager to make a “darker, emotionally complex” movie to make up for BATMAN & ROBIN. Chris O’Donnell, Michael Gough and Pat Hingle were set to return as Robin, Alfred and Commissioner Gordon. George Clooney declined to return as Batman, and Ralph Fiennes was eyed to replace him. Schumacher approached Nicolas Cage for Scarecrow and Madonna for Harley Quinn, and wanted to bring back Jack Nicholson, Danny De Vito, Michelle Pfeiffer, Tommy Lee Jones and Jim Carrey for special appearances, but the project was scrapped after the critical and commercial failure of BATMAN & ROBIN.
I can't buy the whole "Batman and Robin is fine if you look at it as a 90's version of the Adam West show" because I could have fun with Adam West Batman but cannot stand B&R for some reason.
Batman Forever is still the only Batman movie that actually feels like a Batman movie. Everythign else is too editorialized, Burton making a Burton movie, Nolan making a Nolan movie, etc.
Kilmer is still my favorite Bruce Wayne. Brooding, dark, mature and nuanced. He always looks like he's restraining himself and knows better than damn near everybody around him and it works really well for the character. Very understated performance.
His serious/batman voice was fine, a bit of Kevin conroy sound, but his acting was too stilted, and he actually felt awkward as batman with his, well his confused expression on costume, Keaton as Bruce Wayne was basically a weirdo with charisma but as batman he was borderline a bit psychotic, and he was the only batman that could grin and look intimidating/insane (The Flush DOES NOT COUNT), but the rest of the time he looked stoic and cold, i will say tough that i grew to like the batcostume of Returns except for the cowl mask, the movie was shot a bit less darker then 89 but now when you see Keaton's eyes and mask the whole time, sadly lost a bit of the living creature vibe he had in the 1st, also while the mask of 89 looked a bit too big, aside from a few shitty flat lighted shots, when shot at proper angles and dark heavy shadows that make the mask have big large gaping holes.
B&R is possibly my favorite of all of them tbh.
B&R, '66, Mask of The Phantasm, The Dark Knight, Ninja, Vs The TMNT, Returns, and The Doom That Came to Gotham are my favorites of what i've seen, i need to rewatch brave and the bold to know if i'd add it.
Joel Schumacher's Gotham City is the perfect Gotham City. Seeing these movies as a kid is why I developed a profound love of architecture & retrofuturism.
I dunno, anon. I was only able to tolerate Batman Forever, as a child. B&R was too corny for me.
Disliked both immensely, even as a kid. A Schumacher Cut of Forever could probably be a lot better but unless it also cut out entire sequences and characters it would still be lousy .
Forever is ok, B&R is a disgrace. Burton mogs.
Forever is awful, if you grew up with it, ok. But it's truly shit. The opening vault thing's about the ony cool part. Carey is brutal, just a lesser version of his better roles for which he was cast, just le wacky guy, and the great TLJ in the same mode.
Uma gave me my first boner
Hopefully it was Uma in Dangerous Liaisons. Her breasts are magical in that film.
Reminder
I imagine Carey is incredibly hard to work with since he really does like to do his annoying guy routine at all times.
>since he really does like to do his annoying guy routine at all times.
Citation needed.
>I cannot sanction your buffoonery.
This is the most autistic sentence I've read all month.
Another buffoon to add to the list.
i mean if you know about the dumb shit jim carrey does on set, you know that tommy's more than justified. if anything it's a damn shame this hasn't happened to jim carrey more
Never leave the cave without it.
For once OP wasn't a homosexual.
Batman and Robin was awful, but at least it made literally every single person watching it horny. I don't remember shit about Forever.
>it made literally every single person watching it horny
Nnno. Not me. As a 7-year-old, I was hoping for a good Batman movie and was too disappointed to bother paying attention to the rest of it.
Batman Returns made me horny. Batman and Robin did nothing for me.
I don't get the horny aspect. Its just campy to the point I see it as a comedy as opposed to conventional action hero.
This, the only redeeming part was poison ivy and the catfight at the end.
I hate her fricking outfit at the end. That pink spandex looks like shit, I don’t understand why they didn’t hot glue a few more vines to it or something…
Bane's muscle growth scene gave me a boner.
I think Forever could’ve been a better movie if Two-Face was a more serious and tragic villain to balance Riddler’s campiness.
They're fine kids movies but that's it also Batman out of character in Batman and Robin, Batman should always be the straight man but Clooney makes him too self aware.
Batman and Robin is just Batman 66 but in the 90s.
Nah, people say this but it's not true.Their intention, maybe, but Clooney doens't play the role straight enough. He's two seconds away from chuckling to himself for most of the scenes he's BAtman. What made West work is how deadly serious he presented himself.
Shrek 1 director Andrew Adamson worked on the visual effects of both. Batman & Robin in 1997 is his last credit until Shrek in 2001.
Batman Forever's original script is pretty good. If you only focus on Batman and Robin's Mr. Freeze plot and Alfred being sick, there's an almost decent movie in there.
i remember poison ivy giving me one of my first boners. shame uma couldn't keep that first costume and they kept giving her increasingly uglier costumes
Weren't the costumes originally made for Madonna because she was the original cast, but backed out at the last minute?
No, she was slated for Harley Quinn in the fifth movie that never got made.
Agee this movie made ma a thighs and ass man...
This is something modern writers really just have no clue. Poison Ivy was supposed to be the femme fatale hot girl that uses her ass as a weapon and ensnares men. Now she is just another strong woman feminist nobody. Like everyone else.
I was surprised by how evil this version of Ivy ended up being. She even stopped giving a shit about plants by the end. She just wanted to bang Freeze and murder many people.
This was before writers decided she was a poor misunderstood queer icon ecowarrior being held back by society, so she was still allowed to be a murderous b***h.
>she stopped giving a shit about plants by the end and just wanted to bang freeze
What makes you say that? I never got that impression.
They're eh. I will say that the music of Batman Forever is pretty good though. I found myself humming the main theme a lot after seeing it for the first time this year.
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Personally I think their titles should have been reversed. Batman & Robin makes more sense to be the third one, and Batman Forever fits better for the fourth one.
Well Forever is about Bruce deciding he wants to to be Batman forever, not because he feels he has to but because he wants to
The dad's diary subplot explaining this was dropped though
Forever doesn't get smacked enough for being just as corny as its sequel. B&R doesn't get credit enough for being a campy masterwork like Batman 66.
They sucked. Not because they're "gay" (they are), but because they're tacky and boring.
Forever still kept that dark tone because Tim Burton was still on as a producer. Batman and Robin is still an entertaining film if you look at it as a modern interpretation of Adam West's Batman.
What does it make me if I don't really care of forever, but kinda enjoy Batman & Robin?
What the frick was Tommy Lee Jones' Two Face supposed to be in Forever? The character looks like him but he acts more like Nicholson's Joker and Carrey's Riddler than anything like Two-Face. Two-Face is SUPPOSED to seem like a normal cunning man with a side that fully exhibits his natural evil desires, literally Jekyll and Hyde in plain view, needing the coin to help him decide his morality. Did Schumacher not realize this when he wrote him?
He was too busy trying to one-up Carrey.
I truly hope you don’t think Schumacher wrote either film
From the time I've spent on internet I've long realized most people who post have no idea how movies are made.
Batman Forever is boring. Batman and Robin is great. The original is better than both and Returns is better than Forever. Though, Kilmer is much better than Clooney and its not even close. George was a total charisma vacuum in that movie, it was everyone else who made it enjoyable.
Batman forever was pretty cool
Batman and Robin was just two hours of stupid puns and one liners with dutched angles every other scene.
I'm not sure just what in the frick made Schumacker look at the Batman franchise in 1994 and think
>Wow modern fans really REALLY love this new grim dark and brooding take on Batman with gothic feel! It made WB millions!
>That means modern 90s fans REALLY want to see the old campy light-hearted Adam West show but with even more one liners and gags everywhere performed by comedians! Neon lights, and dial up the gay some more!
The man was thinking with his dick the entire time.
Blame WB and parents groups who whined and complained endlessly about how dark Batman Returns was. WB basically pivoted the franchise to be super campy and light and ‘for kids’ so they could sell toys and merch without parents groups b***hing
It's funny, because Forever and Batman and Robin are so infamous, I always thought Schumacher's whole filmography would be gaudy, effects laden films that the 90's were full with, like Judge Dredd, Lost in Space, Independence Day, basically like Roland Emmerich..but nope.
He's actually a really great director and most of his films would suit the template they go with darker Batman.
Don't talk shit about Judge Dredd
Say what you want about that film but everything up until he takes the helmet off is pitch perfect.
Doesn't he take the helmet off like 10 minutes in?
About 15 yeah. That first 15 minutes is the perfect Judge Dredd movie though.
Dredd is the perfect Judge Dredd movie
Spoken like a true fatburger casual
We know from Lost Boys he can do the gangs thing right. Why in all frick were Gotham gangs neon tube gays I have no idea
>do the gangs things right
>lost boys
>gays
I fail to see the difference
That's just 80s styles anon. Everyone in tight leopard print pants and big hair just made everyone look really gay.
>Why in all frick were Gotham gangs neon tube gays I have no idea
One thing about Schumacher people forget is that even in the 90's he was fairly old. He was born in the 40's. Some of the first contact he had with Batman was the Dick Sprang era comics. His whole approach was that he wanted to make it feel like a colorful 40's-50's comic.
Yeah I know literal neon painted gangsters weren't in comics back then. Bare with me.
Saw what you will about the films (they’re guilty pleasures to me) but I think what I liked about Schumacher was his professionalism. I saw a little blurb of him talking about B&R and said something like “if anybody didn’t like the movie, then that falls on me as the director, that’s my responsibility as the director”. Are there any directors nowadays that would be willing to accept the mantle of responsibility in the managing role like that?
I think Schmacker said in an interview that it was more or less executive meddling. May have been doing damage control, so who knows?
He did what the studio wanted him to do.
Which was basically a big toy commercial.
To this day, I still wonder what the hell is with the casting of B&R.
One of the villains is a roided out muscle guy. Hire Schwarzenegger...to play the mad scientist.
The answer is, they saw that Kelley Jones art of Mr. Freeze and switched their plan to approach Patrick Stewart and instead go with Arnold.
Denny was good in the 70s but outside of Birth of the Demon he perpetually fricked the fun out of Batman with his editorial
When will Clooney reprise his role now that Ezra Miller is in his universe at the end of "The Flash?
You're going to get CGI Clooney wordlessly reacting to his universe being torn asunder by the James Gunn reboots AND YOU ARE GOING TO LIKE IT.
How does Ezra Miller escape?
He's not, Clooney just replaced Affleck just like Keaton
DCEU Barry never did any universe hopping like CW Barry did
Worst fricking live-action Riddler besides Dano good god
I always thought If Nicholson and Carey switched roles they wold have been perfect.
Carey as the wacky, jokey clownish buffoon guy would be a great Joker . He even has the tall, lanky, skinny build for it.
While Nicholson as the creepy, cerebral guy that makes totally random lines that sound odd but make sense in some other context, which he did sort of do in the movie as Joker. Would have been a lot better.
I really can't imagine Nicholson as the Riddler at all. That seems so cursed? Carrey as Joker could've been fun maybe.
I feel like his whole
>Ever dance with the devil
thing he did throughout the movie seems much more Riddler-esque than something Joker would have done. After that, dial down the wacky stuff and just be more of the mob boss guy he was before the acid bath.
with his widow's peak he could've made an interesting Golden age riddler.
And just how in the frick is Jim "Ace Ventura" Carey supposed to work out as Joker? What social commentary does he create? How does he relate to people shunned by society? Do you even know a single fricking aspect of what Joker means and represents at all? Or is he nothing but funny clown man to you?
fricking casuals
>What social commentary does he create? How does he relate to people shunned by society? Do you even know a single fricking aspect of what Joker means and represents at all?
Why can you homosexuals let Joker be funny instead of society man for once?
>What social commentary does he create?
Why can't the Joker just be clown criminal sometimes? Why must he always be the 'We live in a society guy'?
>Nicholson as The Riddler
Non sense, rubbish, what's wrong with you?
If you wanted an older Riddler that was on par with Nicholson's creepyness, there's far better options that could've worked. For instance:
>Robin Williams (the most popular one)
>Christopher Lloyd
>Steve Buscemi
>Anthony Hopkins
I am now imagining Steve Buscemi going
>Hey diddle-diddle, time for a riddle!
YES.
GREAT MOVIES!
JOYGASM
Overall they're not very good, but Val Kilmer was better in the role than people give him credit for. The screenplay/script wasn't his fault.
NO BACKGROUND CHECKS
NO STORY
NO NOTHING!!!!
A local arthouse theater did a double billing of Batman '66 and Batman & Robin a few months ago. B&R is worse than I remembered. Like this is one of the worst films I've ever seen in a theater that had a legit budget and actors that didn't involve some sort of religious cult.
'66 was even more fun these days than it used to be.
>B&R is worse than I remembered. Like this is one of the worst films I've ever seen in a theater that had a legit budget and actors that didn't involve some sort of religious cult.
and yet somehow it was still better than Batman v Superman, which seems insane to think about.
Man of Steel was so dreary that I skipped BvS. I've tried to watch it on cable and just can't make it through.
Again, I watched them back to back and the difference couldn't be more stark.
Largely because '66 Gotham was a relatively normal place for the most part but with really weird people that played everything perfectly straight living there while B&R Gotham had ridiculously over-the-top architecture and people.
>Again, I watched them back to back and the difference couldn't be more stark.
>Largely because '66 Gotham was a relatively normal place for the most part but with really weird people that played everything perfectly straight living there while B&R Gotham had ridiculously over-the-top architecture and people.
Its so surreal in 66 that Gotham is just a normal and rather nice place to live but with crazy wacky people livin causing trouble, dont know if the comics at the time were still protraying gotham as a noir city with crime or they started going by the ''Gotham is a hellhole'' thing, on a side note, bless the late Anton Furst for making the perfect Gotham aesthethics in 89 (the movie), sadly he didnt survived to direct the 2nd film, and that one took a bit of a nosedive.
>Largely because '66 Gotham was a relatively normal place for the most part but with really weird people that played everything perfectly straight living there while B&R Gotham had ridiculously over-the-top architecture and people.
I think what made 89 Batman work was that everyone in the movie except for Batman and Joker were normal people. It was like two cartoon characters managed to cross into the normal world. Since cartoon logic and cartoon physics worked for them, but only them. And everyone else had normal reactions to them. Batman Returns messed this up by having all the main characters being cartoon logic characters. Nothing was grounded.
Batman Forever had weird neon Gotham with caricatures everywhere. Everyone in Wayne enterprises was a stock toon character, the gangs were some kind of electric neon power rangers thing. Batman and Robin was even worse, everyone in the whole movie was some kind of cartoon character played out in real like like the Flintstones movie.
I really liked them as a kid.
Here's some production trivia.
Batman Forever (1995)
>BATMAN RETURNS underperformed at the box office, which Warner attributed to the film’s dark tone. They decided to make the franchise more family-friendly, and Tim Burton declined to return. Sam Raimi was considered to direct before Joel Schumacher was hired.
>Schumacher wanted to make a prequel adapting Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One", but WB declined in favor of a sequel, so Schumacher added flashback sequences exploring Batman's past, but most of them were later cut.
>Michael Keaton declined to return after Burton's departure. Mel Gibson, Daniel Day-Lewis, Alec Baldwin, William Baldwin, Kurt Russell, Johnny Depp, Ralph Fiennes and Ethan Hawke were considered to replace him before Val Kilmer was cast.
>Burton had previously cast Marlon Wayans as Robin, but Schumacher decided not to use him. Leonardo DiCaprio, Tobey Maguire, Mark Wahlberg, Matt Damon, Jude Law, Ewan McGregor, Toby Stephens and Scott Speedman were considered before Chris O'Donnell was cast.
>Schumacher also decided not to bring back Billy Dee Williams as Two-Face. Mel Gibson, Al Pacino, Robert De Niro, Willem Dafoe and Nicolas Cage were considered before Tommy Lee Jones was cast.
>Rene Russo was originally cast as Dr. Chase Meridian before producers decided she was too old for Kilmer. Linda Hamilton, Jeanne Tripplehorn, Sandra Bullock and Robin Wright were considered before Nicole Kidman was cast.
>Steve Martin and Robin Williams were considered for the Riddler before Jim Carrey was cast. Prior to his departure, Burton envisioned the Riddler as a serial killer with a question mark carved into his forehead.
>Carrey was supposed to shave his hair in the shape of a question mark, but this idea was abandoned because he was going through a divorce at the time and couldn't appear in court looking like that.
was supposed to shave his hair in the shape of a question mark, but this idea was abandoned because he was going through a divorce at the time and couldn't appear in court looking like that.
kek
Steve Martin never would have agreed to it, but he would have made a cool riddler
I feel like no matter what Jim Carey was always going to be in this movie based on the fact that he was the hottest name in Hollywood in 94-95. Batman was the hottest franchise in the early 90s. If the villains were Ras al Ghul and Zsasz, one of them would be Carey bouncing around in his usual goofy way.
Based Trivia-anon.
Martin and Robin Williams were considered for the Riddler
Steve Martin would have made a good Riddler.
Robin Williams, on the other hand, could have made a good Mad Hatter simply by playing the exact same character he did in Toys but as a villain.
>Prior to his departure, Burton envisioned the Riddler as a serial killer with a question mark carved into his forehead.
Disgusting
>Prior to his departure, Burton envisioned the Riddler as a serial killer with a question mark carved into his forehead.
Fake
Batman & Robin (1997)
>Val Kilmer dropped out due to his conflicts with Schumacher. William Baldwin and David Duchovny were considered to replace him before George Clooney was cast.
>Olivia d'Abo was considered for Batgirl before Alicia Silverstone was cast.
>Julia Roberts, Demi Moore and Sharon Stone were considered for Poison Ivy before Uma Thurman was cast.
>Patrick Stewart, Anthony Hopkins and Ed Harris were considered for Mister Freeze before Arnold Schwarzenegger was cast.
>Schumacher believed Mister Freeze should be "chiseled like an ice sculpture" rather than a frail old man, while Schwarzenegger pushed for Freeze to wear an armored suit to make him more intimidating.
>Early drafts feature Poison Ivy murdering Bruce Wayne's girlfriend Julie Madison, but this was considered too dark.
>WB was already developing a sequel, BATMAN UNCHAINED, which would feature Nicolas Cage as Scarecrow and Madonna as Harley Quinn, when movie’s massive critical and commercial failure led them to scrap their plans.
And the plot of the unproduced fifth movie.
>BATMAN UNCHAINED is the unproduced sequel to 1997’s BATMAN & ROBIN. The script featured Batman fighting crime alone once again after Robin leaves Gotham due to disagreements about Batman’s methods and Batgirl returns to England to complete her studies. Meanwhile, biochemist Jonathan Crane, who wants revenge on Bruce Wayne for cutting his research funds, joins forces with toymaker Harley Quinn, who wants revenge on Batman for the death of her father, the Joker, and they expose Batman to the fear toxin and lock him up at Arkham Asylum.
>At Arkham, Batman is put on trial by hallucinations of his past enemies – the Joker, the Penguin, Catwoman, Two-Face and the Riddler – but ultimately conquers his fears and manages to escape. He then makes amends with Robin and they join forces to prevent Crane, now calling himself “Scarecrow”, from spreading the fear toxin through Gotham. Harley, who doesn’t want to hurt innocents, betrays Crane and helps the heroes stop him. Crane and Harley are arrested, and Batman leaves Robin – now calling himself “Nightwing” – to protect Gotham while he goes on a spiritual journey to the Middle East.
>Joel Schumacher was set to direct and was eager to make a “darker, emotionally complex” movie to make up for BATMAN & ROBIN. Chris O’Donnell, Michael Gough and Pat Hingle were set to return as Robin, Alfred and Commissioner Gordon. George Clooney declined to return as Batman, and Ralph Fiennes was eyed to replace him. Schumacher approached Nicolas Cage for Scarecrow and Madonna for Harley Quinn, and wanted to bring back Jack Nicholson, Danny De Vito, Michelle Pfeiffer, Tommy Lee Jones and Jim Carrey for special appearances, but the project was scrapped after the critical and commercial failure of BATMAN & ROBIN.
Would have watch it
>Crane and Harley are arrested
So none of them would've died? Interesting, I always supposed that one of them would 100% die somehow in this scenario.
I can't buy the whole "Batman and Robin is fine if you look at it as a 90's version of the Adam West show" because I could have fun with Adam West Batman but cannot stand B&R for some reason.
Thing is, nobody in the 90s wanted Adam West Batman. The franchise was fricking huge because of Burton's take on the character attracting interest.
Frick you.
Forever has some real merit underneath all the camp, but B&R was way too bogged down with mandates and bad decisions to make it enjoyable.
People forget Batman had a period of time where his products were just dogshit for a while.
The only good thing this Batman franchise did was give us some cool Six Flags rollercoasters.
That looks like shit though.
Doesn’t matter. It was the shit when you saw it as a kid for the first time, in a park full of ordinary coasters and rides.
Batman Forever is still the only Batman movie that actually feels like a Batman movie. Everythign else is too editorialized, Burton making a Burton movie, Nolan making a Nolan movie, etc.
Kilmer is still my favorite Bruce Wayne. Brooding, dark, mature and nuanced. He always looks like he's restraining himself and knows better than damn near everybody around him and it works really well for the character. Very understated performance.
His serious/batman voice was fine, a bit of Kevin conroy sound, but his acting was too stilted, and he actually felt awkward as batman with his, well his confused expression on costume, Keaton as Bruce Wayne was basically a weirdo with charisma but as batman he was borderline a bit psychotic, and he was the only batman that could grin and look intimidating/insane (The Flush DOES NOT COUNT), but the rest of the time he looked stoic and cold, i will say tough that i grew to like the batcostume of Returns except for the cowl mask, the movie was shot a bit less darker then 89 but now when you see Keaton's eyes and mask the whole time, sadly lost a bit of the living creature vibe he had in the 1st, also while the mask of 89 looked a bit too big, aside from a few shitty flat lighted shots, when shot at proper angles and dark heavy shadows that make the mask have big large gaping holes.
Peak kidman, she was a smoke show.
Batman Forever! It sucked back then and it sucks forever!
Childhood kino yes, leading to some early faps
B&R is possibly my favorite of all of them tbh.
B&R, '66, Mask of The Phantasm, The Dark Knight, Ninja, Vs The TMNT, Returns, and The Doom That Came to Gotham are my favorites of what i've seen, i need to rewatch brave and the bold to know if i'd add it.
Joel Schumacher's Gotham City is the perfect Gotham City. Seeing these movies as a kid is why I developed a profound love of architecture & retrofuturism.
Buffoonery status?