And this... This is what is known as a Super Saiyan that has ascended past a Super Saiyan. Or, you can just call this a Super Saiyan 2.
And this... This is what is known as a Super Saiyan that has ascended past a Super Saiyan.
And this... This is what is known as a Super Saiyan that has ascended past a Super Saiyan. Or, you can just call this a Super Saiyan 2.
You changed your hair so what?
>not calling it Duper Saiyan.
Buu Saga really cheapened SSJ didn’t it?
>kid Goten and Trunks got it, no problem. Their first transformations were even off screen
>SSJ2 is largely useless one arc later
>one babidi’s goons(Dabura) is miles ahead above super perfect cell
>SSJ3 was only there to show off
>Gotenks got SSJ3 in a few months if training as kids and didn’t do shit either despite being the supposed next generation hero
>is surpassed quickly by Gohan who sat on his ass and got his potential unlocked
Dabura is about as Strong as Perfect Cell, SPC is stronger. Gohan just didn't train for shit.
series really should've just ended after cell.
idk what more story Toriyama was trying to tell. It cheapened SSJ and the whole series. I guess maybe his editors pushed him to work another couple years.
It started off with slice of Gohan life, which was nice. Toriyama should have just kept going with that and probably would have liked to, but the series was about tournaments by then and so that's what he had to provide the reader. He was running on fumes though, as he admitted to at the end of the manga
I do enjoy the gohan high school mini arc. it's comfy. but yeah you can tell by just how erratic and scattered everything after that happens. could tell he just wanted to end. which is fair he had been drawing it for 10-11 years, every week.
I liked the start a lot. Gohan was living a more normal life but then when he saw crime in the city, he intervened and stopped it. He liked saving people and adapted his Saiyaman persona to be like a super hero. He can be more gentle and less of a fighting maniac than Goku and Vegeta while still loving Earth and wishing to protect it.
>Gamma sis posts on Cinemaphile
should've stayed as golden warrior honestly
You're both on the right track.
Toriyama fully intended to make Gohan the new main character. It was his intent from the start of the Saiyan saga to work up to Gohan picking up the reigns as Earth's protector after Goku.
But his editors and publisher forced him to go back to Goku shortly after Gohan slice of life started. The manga industry isn't as free ass people like to think. Especially when working with a big publisher. Toriyama was probably jaded by this, explaining why the Buu saga feels so mechanical and phoned in compared to everything else before it.
Yeah, Toriyama isn’t perfect but a lot of narrative decisions are due to the publisher wanting to cash in on trends that fans were hooked on.
>hey everyone loves SSJ, keep creating new forms
>Vegeta is so popular, keep him and sideline everyone else.
>forget piccolo and the humans, everyone loves the saiyans and they’re easier to market toy wise
It's also why Cell Saga was so disjointed
>wtf, why is the villain an old man and his pet fat thing
>wtf why are the villains teens?
>wtf why is the villain a bug thing?
The old man and the fat Buddha were a good idea, I think. Toriyama should have stuck with them. Dr.Gero's design inspired quite a few others similar to himself in different games and media. Also, we don't know what else the two androids might have done if Toriyama kept them. He might have had them get all sorts of new upgrades and look very different by the end
The funny thing is that according to toriyama the editor he had during the buj saga was his most lenient, which I think is why that saga is so all over the place in terms of tone and story. Its obviously noticably more silly than the other dbz sagas, but its also like Toriyama needed someone to give him more direction, the whole saga its like he couldn't make up his mind whether it was going to be next generation story witj Gohan/Gotenks as the hero or the typical Goku thing. It also goes from silly shit to some of the most intense scenes in the series like Videl getting destroyed and the every human getting killed all at once. The point is perhaps the meddling editors had a point and helped to make toriyamas writing better in the past with cell
Who cares about what the author says. In that case Dumbledore is gay. We can only glean what we can from what we get, not the author’s afterthoughts or damage control. Didn’t read your post just saying.
Well I was talking about the writing process so the writers input does have some value. I agree though that its annoying when writers keep adding shit lore years later that doesnt make sense
The Buu saga was the climactic finale of Dragonball. Of course they wanted to showcase the new gen of warriors but there was no way Goku wasn’t gonna be the one to beat the final boss.
I don't mind Goku coming back my problem lies in how disjointed it is. Goku literally says to Piccolo that he probably could have beaten buu but its time for the younger generation to learn how to defend earth themselves.
Goku’s philosophies and reasonings have filtered billions.
In the manga, Goku goes through three separate claims throughout the arc, regarding the first Buu fight he had
>"No way I would have been able to beat him."
>"Ah, well, maybe I could have beat him."
>"I definitely could have beat him."
I wonder if Toriyama forgot his own dialogue while he was writing it
Theres also a part where after vegeta dies everyone asks Goku if he can defeat buu, to which is says no way I'm only as strong as vegeta. Which is pretty quickly contradicted by ss3. I think toriyama was pretty burnt out and struggling to keep up with his own story
>everyone asks Goku if he can defeat buu, to which is says no way I'm only as strong as vegeta. Which is pretty quickly contradicted by ss3
Toriyama literally didn't plan for SS3 exist until after Goku vs Majin Vegeta when the editor demanded Goku be put at the forefront of the manga again cause the Nips hate sons being better than their fathers.
Or at least it was supposed to be. Toei and Shueisha weren't going to let the gravy train stop. And here we are 30 years later with new Dragon Ball content consistently being produced.
Here's the page that ruined it all
>Videl blackmails Gohan into going to the Strongest Under the Heavens tournament with her
>Essentially a forced date with Videl through cohesion
>Gohan tells Bulma about it and she says he will probably be bored mopping everyone up by himself
>Uncle Bejita says he'll go to the tournament too, just to give Gohan something to do there
>Gohan and Uncle Bejita bonding time is assured
>"Hey! It's me Goku!" figuratively and literally out of nowhere
>Shit rolls downhill
>It never stops
>Manga ends
Fricking hell, what a waste
Vegeta vs Gohan would've been genuinely cool to see. Frick it's frustrating trying to reminisce about DBZ.
>Gohan was living a more normal life but then when he saw crime in the city
As a kid I thought this would lead to Gohan finding some sort of secret cult threatening Earth and that would be Majin Boos creation. Just a dumb childhood prediction but honestly would've been fricking better than what we got.
Vegeta blowing Gohan away with wind when Gohan tried to get mouthy in the tournament arena was enough for me that was kino.
Cells death and Gohans triumph is the end of DBZ in my headcanon
Toriyama isn’t known for planning, but the moment Gohan was introduced there had to be some sort of "passing of the torch" drafted in his head. Gohan in his intro is shown to be extremely powerful. Why even create him if he wasn’t going to be a new generation type figure as Goku’s son. His treatment after cell is assassination and you don’t even have to be a fanboy see it
I don't know why Toriyama thought Gohan would be able to carry the series if it was going to be about fighting. If about a country boy child soldier trying to adapt to everyday life, with a peppery girl that actually does like to fight who keeps clinging to his arm, then sure, but about Gohan fighting himself? It was made clear from the start that Gohan doesn't like doing it, so he's as adverse to the part as possible
I don’t mind Gohan not being a fighting maniac like Goku. It sets him apart and makes him his own character. I just find it hard to believe that he would never train at all during those 7 years. His dad gave him the responsibility of being earth’s protector and in the world as dangerous as theirs, it’s silly not to expect more threats.
I don't mind it either and that's really a big part of Gohan's character, being more gentle and not a fighting savage. The problem is, he was able to be that character because Goku was the savage. With Goku gone however, there was nobody to fill that void with and Toriyama realized pretty quick that Gohan could not, so he brought Goku back
I think he should have just ended it all, once he came to that realization. Convince the editors to let him spend the last few months, or however long he could get away with it, enjoying drawing Gohan's civilian time, then just stop the manga
>If about a country boy child soldier trying to adapt to everyday life, with a peppery girl that actually does like to fight who keeps clinging to his arm, then sure, but about Gohan fighting himself?
this sounds kino though. an arc about just enjoying your life and having fun moments with your friends but knowing WHEN you need to fight to preserve those moments is exactly what the show needs
>Cells death and Gohans triumph is the end of DBZ in my headcanon
For me, it ended when Videl guessed Gohan was the one to kill Cell and not her father. Everything after that, like Buu, Videl cutting her hair, etc, into the trash it goes
Pigtails Videl was so fricking hot. Peak manga woman right there.
Series was supposed to end after Freiza but they kept if going with Cell. It SHOULD have ended after Cell but they decided to do the Buu shit that killed the series and ruined it
Dabura was never as strong as perfect cell
What the frick do you even get this
Vegeta says it when gohan's fighting him. I dont remember if it says he's exactly as strong or close to cell
>What the frick do you even get this
Reading the manga
why did you stop there
>SSJ3 is revealed
>jobs
>fusion is revealed
>jobs
>fused SSJ3 is revealed
>jobs
>gohan surpasses not only SSJ3 but also the current power of the big bad by a country mile
>jobs
>potara fusion is revealed, already putting him a lightyear ahead of the big bad
>potara fusion PLUS SSJ is revealed, putting our heroes in another fricking galaxy compared to the big bad
>JOBS
>job this job that
job yourself, what did you want, their first plan to defeat Buu to succeed? obviously Buu was gonna kick everyone’s asses and Goku was gonna beat him in the end, it’s the final boss of Dragonball
with better writing, literally any of those forms could have been a satisfying conclusion. throw it all at the wall to see what sticks and its a fricking headache, and ending it with yet another fricking spirit bomb sucked
They only ever used a bomb once, unless you count them using it in most of the movies.
>Use spirit bomb against Bejita
>Use spirit bomb against Frieza
>Use spirit bomb against Buu
They used it three times, which compared to the Kamehameha use, it isn't much, but it is always made a big deal of
The issue is the loss to Boo are jobs intead of a genuine failure. Like if Gotenks lost to Boo because the kids were too inexperience despite their immense power and couldn't keep up technically in the fight that would make sense. But they just kinda stop trying to get the killing blow despite a dozen opportunities and let Boo do stupid shit.
Gohan also lost because somehow despite being able to create a Ki blast that could wipe out a solar system he couldn't throw one at a piece of bubble gum attacking at Gotenks. It's just so fricking stupid.
You can complain about Gohan missing the ear ring toss but wtf were they supposed to do about being absorbed?
>But they just kinda stop trying to get the killing blow despite a dozen opportunities and let Boo do stupid shit.
Buu sitting around drinking ice cream soda fighting Gotenks should have been the indication to the reader that Toriyama truly didn't give a frick and was just amusing himself until he finally stopped the manga. It was strange too because Buu saga was very gory compared to the Cell saga. Toriyama's editor really wasn't paying much attention at all to what was going on in it
>It was strange too because Buu saga was very gory compared to the Cell saga
It was weird seeing Vegeta and Gohan have such muted reactions to their wife and mom, respectively, getting killed when both have gone nuclear in the past for their family getting hurt. It's like everyone stopped being a character.
Frick I hate the Boo Saga.
>"Hey Bulma, shouldn't we go get your mom and dad and bring them to the lookout, so Buu doesn't turn them into beef jerky? Maybe slowly chewing them to death over a period of several agonizing days?"
>"Oh, it's ok! Mom and dad didn't want to leave the pets. They just said to bring them back to life if something happens. 🙂 "
I shouldn't expect much from the woman who brought her newborn baby to see the murderous artificial humans, but fricks sake. That's next level apathy, even for Bulma
after 25 years of all death not being permanent, i think it's the natural response.
Joke's on Bulma when Zeno erased her. Now she can't go to the afterlife, or see her son, or her friends, ever. Zeno gave Bulma permanent death of her soul
Don't most souls reincarnated after a year unless they were great warriors? Dragonball doesn't have an "afterlife" for most.
In the original manga, yes. Unless you have done great feats in life, an average soul or an evil soul goes through a reincarnation process, where all evil is purged from it, then it is reborn into something new. People who have done wonderful selfless feats are allowed to keep their original bodies and their individuality. However, if they are killed again, by however means, they no longer exist anymore
In Dragon Ball Super, the God of Destruction and the Omni King, are able to instantly cause the death of your physical body and your soul, all at once. The Omni King can erase not only your soul, but all reality as well, making him feared by everyone
>In Dragon Ball Super,
no one gives a rat’s festering wiener
Jesse what the frick are you talking about
SSJ3 Goku doesn't battle Buu
Fusion Gotenks is untrained and still handles Super Buu to the point he flees the Timechamber.
SSJ3 Gotenks beats the frick out of Super Buu but the fusion wears off
Mystic Gohan is better until Gotenks is absorbed, then winds up being stronger after the fusion wears off. He gets absorbed like a dunny.
Vegito let's himself get absorbed.
Did you actually watch it?
>SSJ3 Goku doesn't battle Buu
He fights Fat Buu for a little bit, to buy time for Goten and Trunks.
I headcanon to this day that Goten and Trunks get it more easily because their fathers had no tail and were Super Saiyans already by the time they were conceived, making the transformation quicker and easier to attain.
Super saiyan sperm made them.
Saiyan children being initially stronger due to how inconceivably powerful Goku/Vegeta were to all the other members of their race isnt farfetched, especially when being half-human is perfect synergy that allows them to tap into their emotions better. The thing is the kids dont have the same mentality to train and push themselves so either way they wont end up as strong.
There's really such a huge difference between pure blood and half human saiyans.
They lose their edge when mixed with human DNA. even brain damaged Goku had a warrior's mentality but Gen 2 saiyans are just disappointing slackers.
>They lose their edge when mixed with human DNA. even brain damaged Goku had a warrior's mentality but Gen 2 saiyans are just disappointing slackers.
this is a problem on Toriyama's end
should've unironically had Gohan defeat Buu AS The Great Saiyaman
no, SSJ eventually falls off. gohan doesn't need it, goku and vegeta got blue and red forms that aren't really associated with being saiyans, broly has a green ascended form. SSJ remains an important stepping stone but not really important anymore
What was majin ss2 power level? Like 2.5?
Super saiyan lost its luster in the android saga
>Vegeta gets SSJ out of fan service, the lure of heart stuff is retconned
>SSJ, the legendary form that took down a galactic tyrant is humiliated by a cyborg
>it’s revealed that there are forms beyond Super Saiyan
>Gohan had to unlock an entirely new transformation to beat Cell
They shouldn’t have made the androids so freakishly strong. Gohan could have trained SSJ to the point where it was powerful enough to beat cell instead of having a whole new form.
You didn't bring up Trunks. His first appearance was godawful. Watching Dragon Ball from the first episode of little Goku and Bulma going on a quest to ask Shernron to give Bulma a boyfriend to Namek and the Freeza Saga was a long journey. All of the fights, training, friends, enemies, powerups for years and years.
We see Goku's growth all the way until he stands as the the strongest, the Legendary Super Saiyajin against the big evil emperor of the galaxy and defeats Freeza, allowing his son to escape, saving the universe and avenging his race.
And...
And then...
Some random punk wearing a denim jacket with a dumb sword shows up, turns Super Saiyan and one shots the enemy that was the final culmination of Goku's long journey completely stealing the spotlight and shitting on all of the hard work that we saw Goku go through.
I hated that moment so much.
everything after frieza isn't canon, simple as. the series ends with goku not returning to earth.
I'd agree with SSJ being cheapend, but SSJ2 wasn't bad in Buu saga.
If Gohan weren't such an out of shape cuck, he could have taken care of Dabura and all of Babidi's fighters in no time without outputting enough power to unleash Buu. The Magin Vegeta vs. Goku SSJ2 fight is one of the most kino in the entire series. SSJ2 wasn't made useless, Gohan was.
SSJ2 Gohan = Super Perfect Cell > Perfect Cell = Dabura
That's why Vegeta was so pissed at Gohan for taking so long with Dabura, because he's way below SSJ2 teen Gohan.
The show already spiralled out of control in the Namek arc where every character suddenly had a transformation and was using gimmicks to gain thousands then tens of thousands then hundreds of thousands of power levels over the course of an hour to mere minutes all without training or fighting more cleverly. By mid cell saga all pretense was thrown out the window and characters were as strong or weak as they needed to be for the plot with a hand wave at best explaining why they are suddenly multitudes of time stronger than they were even a minute ago...and usually it doesn't matter because every arc comes down to waiting for the resident Saiyan to start a beam tug of war.
Contrast with the Saiyan saga where even humans were within fighting chance of the Saiyans and everyone had to go into the brawl with what they had, no chance to take Ki steroids or fusion nonsense to excuse them suddenly being stronger than they were, and even a total mundane like Yajirobe was able to have a non-contrived hero moment (while fast forward to Namek, Bulma spent the entire arc schlicking in a cave).
TLDR Buu wasn't the start of the shit era of Dragon Ball, Namek was, and the franchise never recovered
Goku went from a power level of 416 at the start of the Saiyajin Saga to a power level of 150,000,000 at the end of the Freeza Saga. It was absurd.
Yeah, I liked when they had to juggle recovery items because they knew they weren't all strong enough and it still felt like even Goku could get taken out. Before I knew he was the MC in a beloved, long running franchise, I mean.
>Gohan
Ugh, I was hoping for a reason to watch it not a reason to not watch it.
Super Hero is mostly a Piccolo movie. Gohan appears only at the very end.
>stop watching before the end
Ok got it.
Oh yeah now I remember I did click through it and it was entirely cgishit and that's why I didn't watch it. It's stiff and clunky. The games move better wtf.
The Gamma brothers were great.
Gohan using the Makankōsappō for the 1st time was pretty cool.
I liked seeing Piccolo fly through the colorful world of Dragon Ball. The soundtrack was also very Sam Raimi's Spiderman-esque.
Shame a better Gamma got killed.
Concept of power levels did irreversible damage to the series. Toriyama can say they never mattered but they clearly did. By giving Frieza and the Ginyu force absurdly high numbers, you knew asspulls had to be formed. Kaio ken no longer did bodily harm and Goku can go x20. But Frieza was made to be so strong so Super Saiyan had to be created. The Zenkai boost bullshit had to be invented
Kek who's got Plague Lord in their image folder?
Why isn't this thread discussing cuckoldry?
Shut up ESG shill, homosexual.
Buu Saga wasn’t fantastic but I’ll be damned if Toonami didn’t keep me hyped as frick throughout it
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I had forgotten about this, and I remember it playing so many fricking times now.
Worst fricking feeling was when you waited once a week for every ep and then they 'caught up' to however many episodes they had a hold of and it was always a cliff hanger. So they go back to ep 1 and you knew it was over because it took months just to get to where they left off.
The buu saga was awesome and the peak of DBZ hype. I was there, I witnessed it. Contrarians weren't even born back then
How can the poo saga ever compete with perfection
>Cell gets on his hands and knees and begs Vegeta to let him turn perfect
>Buu memes Gohan and absorbs Gotenks after getting called a moron
Buu isn't a little b***h for one.
Cell unlike the other two DBZ bad guys is a coward. When Frieza or Buu was faced with annihilation it angered them and made them fight harder but Cell would literally scream in fear and try to run away.
>Cell would literally scream in fear and try to run away
In the manga, it shows him as a madman, but in the anime, it made him into a coward. I was surprised to see that originally, that the panels are so different and I'm not sure why they changed it
Huh.
>peak of DBZ hype
Peak of Buu saga hype was Videl getting beaten unmerciful and then hype promptly ended there. Nothing else ever topped it
Cell saga was the peak of DBZ.
Beyond based.
Buu > Frieza > Cell
>It's a Vegeta and Goku grunt at each other for 15 minutes, 30 seconds of punches, and 6 minutes of the other characters talking and grunting episode
Watching DBZ on tv was hell in retrospect.
I imagine this depends on which country you're from, but DBZ hype in America peaked at some point between the Frieza and Android sagas. By the time the Buu saga got going the diehards had figured out how to use the internet to its full potential and had already watched fansubs all the way through the end of GT. I don't even remember if Toonami finished airing it or not.
I was in 4th and 5th grade when it was peaking on YTV in Canada and every single day revolved around running home and praying they didn't reset back 20 episodes again. I remember coming home after an optometrist appointment and holding my dilated eyes open.
>every single day revolved around running home and praying they didn't reset back 20 episodes again
>You'd see Buu kill Babidi and then it was back to Raditz for the next eight months
You frickers have unlocked some deeply repressed memories in me. I think they did the same shit when they were airing the OG Dragon Ball too and that's around when I lost interest.
It was happening before CN even got ahold of the series and just getting syndication spots.
I thought Toonami just straight up stopped airing Dragon Ball before it was finished
Leaf here too. Canada was "blessed" in that DBZ took off more in the early-2000s rather than the 90s like in the USA so we had a relatively consistent stream of episodes. Although that made it worse in a way because if you missed a few crucial episodes you were just fricked. Reruns never did a full reset of the series.
I remember missing almost the entire Gotenks fight with Buu and Piccolo vs Android 17 both because of a long family vacation and never had the chance to see either again as a kid.
>anime fans literally dilate
I promise you 11yr olds didn't figure out how to find anime subs back in 2002
Excuse you zoomie, I was 9 in 2002 and distinctly remember my 14 yo brother hooking me up with 120p rips of GT that he had downloaded off of an IRC channel and played back on Realplayer.
So the point still stands. You didn't figure it out as a kid. A much older person did.
I'm pretty sure he was already doing it a year or two before, or that there were younger kids doing it. My point is that it was readily available if you were a young nerd.
>I don't even remember if Toonami finished airing it or not.
It did and then Toonami's popularity fell off a cliff without new DBZ to air.
That said, I don't think you're wrong. DBZ's popularity peaked when they finally aired the newly-dubbed second half of Namek. There had been immense hype for that after they had rerun the series three or four times previously. Once that was done, they reran the series and it was a year before they aired the Trunks-Cell sagas, and then another year after that before they picked back up with the Saiyaman saga. Each of those breaks let a lot of the steam out of the hype train.
Then they took three fricking breaks during the Buu arc. Shit started in '01 and didn't finish until '03. You'd see Buu kill Babidi and then it was back to Raditz for the next eight months. Casual fans lost interest, diehards went and read the manga.
the spook and edge factor of revealing buu's final form was more intense than cell's
I've always liked the Buu saga more, though SSJ2 Gohan's transformation is still a top 3 DBZ moment for me.
But the dread of the Buu Saga was really compelling for me. He was a much more threatening villain than the others, just a pure instrument of carnage and chaos.
The Majin Vegeta and Goku battle was great too.
>I've always liked the Buu saga more
literally the worst saga.
The beginning leading into the martial arts tournement is fun classic dragon ball goodness
they abandon the tournament which is lame but then they do another mini tournament thing inside Babadi's spaceship was cool
Dabura was cool as frick but was completely wasted and had a forgettable battle with Gohan. In hindsight, Dabura should have been the main villain of a different storyline
They introduce Goku's lamest new form which was completely useless and did nothing against fat Buu so he just gave up and decided that the moron kids fusing together is their last chance even though it makes NO sense that Gotenks would be more powerful than Goku.
Fat Buu appears which is kinda of unique but the filler shit with Mr. Satan was gay and dumb
Entire Gotenks vs Super Buu shit was complete filler and unfunny bullshit that lead to literally nothing
50 Buu absorptions and more fusion bullshit later we get Kid Buu and the final battle which was cool
There so much shit they should have cut out that arc it's crazy.
>Entire Gotenks vs Super Buu shit was complete filler and unfunny bullshit that lead to literally nothing
That was one of Toriyama's favorite fights, too. Japanese humor has its ups and downs
Gotenks vs Buu is hilarious.
It really is, especially in the manga. It's obvious that Toriyama was goofing around for the first time since original DB, and the fight is all the better for it.
No it's not.
>we messed up the fusion so now we're fat
>we messed up the fusion so now we're old
>GALACTIC DONUT!!!!!
>GHOST GOTENKS GO GET HIM!!!!
>we're trapped in here unless we scream really loudly until a portal appears
That shit is only funny if you're 12 and moronic.
Everything you named is kino
grow up
News flash Cellgay, that dumb humor is what Dragon Ball is all about. It's always Cellgays.
No one said anything about Cell you absolute moron. Also stop pretending Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z are the same thing. Z is a continuation but also a completely different installment in terms of what exactly they choose to highlight as well as the overall tone itself. Dragon Ball is an adventure slapstick comedy with martial arts. Z is a traditional battle shounen that more focuses on the battle aspects while limiting the comedy and removing most of the slapstick elements.
>Also stop pretending Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z are the same thing.
They are. Z's tone was achieved as early as the Piccolo Daimao arc.
>while limiting the comedy
Toriyama loves writing that style of comedy most, that's why stuff like Hercule exists, Buu was a return to form.
The comedy is Dragon Ball is good. The comedy in Dragon Ball Z is bad
>Oolong shitting himself: good
>Gotenks' nonsensical moveset: bad
Sometimes the jokes are good, sometimes the jokes are bad. It isn't really dependent on where in the manga they are
Mr.Satan first appeared in the Cell saga too, so that attempt to gain back some of the comedy Toriyama liked crept back in even before Buu saga. Buu saga just took it even higher
Satan was legit strong though. He just has the misfortune to be in a manga with planet killers. In something more grounded, even Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat or something, he would be legit high tier.
fat boo and satan was cool
gotenks vs boo was kino
just the fight ending sucked and led to moronic absorption saga
final battle sucked
>final battle sucked
No that shit was absolutely kino.
god I miss fight coreography so much
all the newer fighting animes shilled by netflix are literal slideshows with sparkles and special effects, boys just want to see punches thrown with weight
The new Broly movie had some pretty cool fights like that, with actually good animations.
>The new Broly movie
Wait what?
Boomer here that can't stand nu DB especially the cheap art style and the dumb transformations.
Broly was dead. The first movie was peak DB. What did they do? Resurrection?
Dragon Ball Super retconed the Z Broly. Gave him a slightly different back story in his new movie. He's still the same awesome berserker, but not due to just hearing Goku cry as a baby.
With all of the problems with Super, the movie is pretty good and also canonized not only Broly, but also Gogeta.
You don't really need to know much about Super to view the movie.
I am glad that Kubota and Shintani are working full time on Dragon Ball now. I really enjoy the artstyle.
It's a reboot. I despise S but the new Broly can be watched and enjoyed. I despise S but I've seen it probably 10 times. The fights are great and the music is kino.
I'd like to mention 1 more time that I despise DBS with everything I have. It's a blasphemy on Dragonball and a blight on anime in general. Keep that in mind and I really have seen the movie about 10 times.
Super movies are KINO. All that you need to know. If Super was made with the same care like the movies, world would be good.
Broly movie had a pretty good artstyle. Yammauro was GODlike during his prime, but he has gotten old. Nu-Yammamuro simply doesn't work. Frick that plastic look.
>Broly came out 5 years ago
Shit......time is flying by.
So you be saiyan... we sum kinna supa saiyan 2 n sheit??
tranime fans will never leave the smell saga
Majin Buu, Saiyans, Piccolo Jr, Piccolo Daimao sagas were all kino.
Frieza and Cell slogs were a step down and didn't do anything new or better than the others
The early parts of the Freeza Saga with Vegeta, Krillin and Gohan trying to race with Dodoria, Zarbon and the Ginyu Force to collect the Dragon Balls were some of the best episodes in the franchise. The Frieza Saga did take too long to end in the anime after it.
This image. God, this image is what DBZ is, to me.
>Majin Buu saga better than Frieza saga
What part of Majin Buu saga was more enjoyable than Frieza saga, other than slice of Gohan?
Everything up to post vegeta's sacrifice
I shit him.
>BEJITA KISS MY WIFE AIEEEEEEEEEEEE
TOKIO TOKIO...
Poor Jubei.
he suffered
>That Tessai raping Kagerou scene
Need a Videl and Spopovich version of it
Any fight scene that can hope to top Genma Vs Jubei? That set the bar extremely high
GEEEEENNNNMMMAAAAA
Thanks for reminding me of this. I actually enjoyed Sword of the Stranger a lot as well. Anyone ITT seen that?
I want more good classic animes like this.
show me super sayan 5
Dragonball Z episodes don't count if they weren't on Cheez TV.
Waku waku
Coolest moment in fiction, hands down.
I love City Hunter so much.
the slice of life past cell was peak comfy
boo saga was very weird
if you type this shit even as a joke there's something wrong with you
doesn't Goku admit he could've killed Buu at SSJ3 when he first fights him? one of the things that ruined Buu saga for me
Buu was such a bad villain that Goku briefly thinks maybe he should have gone all out against Buu initially. Goku doesn’t have regrets though.
if goku went SSJ3 against majin vegeta maybe vegeta would have unlocked ssj3 too. goku is a bad friend and should never teach anybody. uub turned out to be a dud in GT
Only shitty part of Z is we never see a full power Uub. Who gives a frick about GT but there should have been a 16th DBZ movie after Wrath of the Dragon in the future with Uub and Goku killing some butthole together.
Best we got is that Goku's arm was swollen after just blocking one of Uub's kicks. Goku gave up the fight when I realized Uub couldn't fly, so he went to Uub's town with him to train him
Toriyama probably would have done something with Uub by now if Toei let him, but Toei knows Uub isn't going to push any merchandise, so they'll never bring him up ever again
Uub did appear in the Super manga, and was useful there, but it's supposed to canonically happen before End of Z.
SS3 was useless. Only functional when you're dead, you waste all your strength just transforming into it, and the energy drain is so stupidly high that you can't maintain it.
It's the same problems they ran into with the muscle pumped forms during Cell saga. You don't have the speed loss, but they are just too wasteful to be worthwhile.
>Only functional when you're dead
Reconned by Toriyama in the Buu saga itself. When he says he doesn't remember anything as soon as he finishes drawing it, I honestly believe him
Goku had to train for 7 years in the afterlife with infinite Ki and learning from any great martial artist he could have found there. Vegeta wouldn't have caught up after one fight.
Gotenks getting it was fricking moronic, fusion is too strong.
>Gotenks getting it was fricking moronic, fusion is too strong.
It's not that fusion is too strong, it's just makes no sense in terms power scaling. No one can realistically believe the combined power of Goten and Trunks could even take on Goku in his base form let alone be able to not only achieve SSJ3 and somehow be stronger than Goku at his best. It's just bad writing.
Yes, Vegetto's power was believable, Gotenks was the problem. They shouldn't have gotten SSJ3.
They even show Piccolo thinking it was absurd.
DBZ power creep is as dumb and incomprehensible as kaiju shit.
And this is to goevenfurtherbeyond. *yawns*
Toriyama is a lazy frick, so why did he decide to draw the new Saiyan form with a ton of hair he had to draw every time? What it autism?
That's why he made the form difficult to sustain.
SSJ3 is the worst design of any transformation
It's the best.
said no one ever. Didn't live up to the hype of SSJ1 Goku and SSJ2 Gohan and then proceeded to get his ass kicked by the weakest version of Majin Buu before giving up and letting little kids fight his battle. It's also ugly as frick looking.
All dubgays should be killed and all dubs should be destroyed.
Let's not go that far. Some of the dubs are entertaining
>nothing will ever match the feeling of discovering DBZ as a young boy
Why even live?
>Dragon Ball starts off with Bulma pissing her panties
>Ends with whole families being gruesomely disemboweled and murdered by Bobbidi's underlings
The wild tone shift isn't the fault of the fans arguing which is the true face of Dragon Ball. If Toriyama and the editors kept a consistent tone, this wouldn't be an issue. They catered to who they thought was reading the manga most, which wasn't the ones looking for Dr Slump's toilet humor and raunchy comedy
I always hated the ss2 ss3 etc. they should've just kept the super Saiyan transformation for epic moments and only a few should've been able to do it on occasion, at least then they could've kept some great characters relevant like tien and yamcha
How would the Buu Saga have went if Goku just put Vegeta down right away when he got uppity?
for me? it's badman vegeta
Power creep is a thing in all battle shonen, but man no one handled it worse than the dragon ball series. It didn’t start in Z as well
>Roshi destroying the mountain is meant to be impressive then takes down the moon in the next arc
For me it really settled in during the Namek Saga
>make Frieza and his goons so strong you have to introduce a plot device(zenkai) to speed up everyone’s power
Naruto comes close, motherfricking ninjas end up shooting energy blasts and are strong enough to slice the moon and destroy continent tier landmasses. At least in DB, it was established from the get go that characters had destructive powers
>Goku killing Kid Buu with the Kikuchi score
Pure SOVL. Man, I love Dragon Ball.
How do they possibly go to End of Z from this?
Buu Saga set the stage with all these new power ups. No one liked GT, so to revitalize interest in dragon ball again, new forms were introduced. The logic was that well everyone loves super saiyan so let’s add new hair colors to get the old and new generation excited about dragon ball. I like how that despite all the asspull power ups in Super, the humans still haven’t gotten one. No one likes them, not Toriyama, Toei, Toyotaro, and not the fans
>The humans still haven’t gotten one
In the manga, Roshi gets pseudo-UI and fights Jiren.
>No one likes them
I like Tenshinhan...
I do to, Tien didn’t deserve to get left behind. Japan hates him though, there’s no other explanation. If Roshi got all this love in Super, then Tien should have gotten the same. He was Goku’s first rival and the most creative fighter in the series
>Japan hates him
I'll never understand why. He was brilliant with all of his unique techniques, did the "bad guy becomes a friend" before Piccolo and Vegeta, and never lost his will to train and better himself even if keeping up became impossible due to racial traits.
Yeah, they’re trolling fans by saying Krillin is stronger even though Tien never stopped training and was always head of him. Krillin and Yamcha were always gag type characters so I don’t mind them turning into total jokes but Tien was always serious. They even took him out of the gang for no real reason after Cell.
He was a pedo. A big guy Travelling around with his little femboy wasn't liked back in the 90s
Canonically the Dragon Ball Kanzenban Official Guide: Dragon Ball Forever confirms that Launch and Tenshinhan are in a romantic relationship and are living together as a couple.
I thought it confirmed that Lunch went to his farm for a while to try and get his attention but he was too far on sigma grindset to pay attention to her and she got frustrated after a while and left
That did happen, but she went back and Tenshinhan opened up to her and now they're together.
Next movie is about the humans.
>b-b-bu-
Trust the plan.
Would be nice. Unfortunate that they can't introduce Uub since Super is happening before End of Z.
Super Hero is mere months before End of Z. Next movie is going to go beyond it. Also, isn't it funny how Toyo's SHARTnga has more respect for Uub than GT?
I love these comics, you got any more of them? I remember there was a bunch of them floating around.
I saved a few.
I wonder if we'll ever see Gamma 1 again. Canonically Gamma 1 and Gamma 2 were as powerful as Blue Goku and Blue Vegeta.
I feel bad for future trunks, he grew up in an apocalyptic hellhole and had the weight of saving the world on his shoulders. He goes to the past to explain the dangers, but has to deal with morons. When Cell is weakened against Goku, everyone stands there like an autist when this is the perfect chance to finish him off. After he dies, Vegeta is heartbroken, but Cell only got this far because you let him go perfect. Everyone acts so shocked that Cell is going to destroy the world, what did they think would happen. No one listened to Trunks
Our HEROES are flawed.
Our HEROES... and vegeta...
No one learns their lesson. Vegeta lets Buu resurrect but everyone forgets this and he’s redeemed despite feeling zero regret for causing all this trouble. Goku could’ve stopped Fat Buu, but puts his hopes in little kids, now is not the time to do this when the earth is stake. Just finish the job, butthole
I never said that they learned their lesson. I said that they are flawed.
Toriyama just gave outlines. It’s Toei that interprets them. The fandom made so many memes about the human characters that it even infected the writing staff. Yamcha’s death is now made fun of in universe which is disrespectful. I blame the fans ultimately for DB’s downfall. If you gays didn’t suck off Bejita and the super saiyan shit so much, the OG characters wouldn’t have been sidelined so horribly. Toriyama never even liked the manlet prince
Yes when Krillin had the Guru place a hand on his hand and raised his power level from 1500 to 75,000 (which he totally earned...) he was stronger. Poor Tenshinhan had to actually train to get his power which he used to nuke Semi-Perfect Cell and deflect attacks from Super Buu (Gotenks Absorbed) while Krillin was dooming humanity because a robot kissed his cheek.
>subhuman hispanics wake up
>dragon balls thread appears
every time
Check out the clip here
if you're not interested and think it looks bad then don't try the movie after it.
No one said the Super movies are better than Z, we said they're better than the general quality of Super and are worth wathing.
I keep hearing Superhero is good like Broly but I hate S so much I haven't watched it yet.
The animation style is different. It's more light hearted and funny. Seeing Gohan and Piccolo as the main characters was nice, I liked it.
Fine don't watch it then.
>animation
>amazing soundtrack
Yup. Still remember watching it in theaters. It was packed with people.
these power levels are weird
Cool to see that Broly joined the group.
Piccolo was actually worth something because if you killed Piccolo, you lose the dragon balls.
No one hates Dragonball more than Dragonball fans
>NOO why is the main character getting all the focus?
>NOOO how come the irrelevant human characters dont get more screen time?!
>NOOO Dragonball should have ended with king Piccolo!!
>NOO it should have ended with Frieza!
>NOOO it should have ended with Cell!!!
>NOOO GT sucks!
>NOO Super sucks!!
>NOOO why isn't Gohan the main character???
>NOOO why can’t Vegeta save the day??!
And yet you all still watch.