One of the artists in California made a document where you can review animation studios and a bunch of other studio staff members have been adding their reviews.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aJHCQSA2dFdu4Fy__T3yDyiNqO0jMUBcku0EjKX3SZI/edit
Wow, I can never see this being abused.
Oh no, the workers might use it to form some kind of collective, possibly to bargain for better pay and working conditions.
Interesting, but what am I supposed to do with this information?
you can see what employees think of specific studios
Implicitly, be angry that they want to be paid.
>No WFH
>shitting your pants because you're a dumbfrick
lol even pre-covid Japan didn't think animators needed to be at the office to do their job.
Name some of the Japanese studios that had major WFH initiatives pre-COVID. I read about Polygon effectively have no staff in-office anymore, but that shift hit because of COVID.
All the big name animators that are freelancers work from home. Almost all the inbetweeners that worked for KyoAni before the arson attack.
>"I LOVE COMMUTING!!! I LOVE TO SIT IN MY CAR AND WASTE GAS GOING TO AND BACK AND NOT GET COMPENSATED FOR IT"
Cuck
Forcing everyone to live in California and be exposed to the dogshit LA culture did wonders for the industry, we should DEFINITELY keep that going!
The sad thing is, even if they can move out, the place the move to will just turn into LA within a few years.
Yes good goy, waste your free time and money going to and back from work every day.
Frick off moron
>blaming the israelites for your small penis
Yes.
I was circumcised and the fricked up.
My dick was chopped in half. Now it's a micropenis
have a nice day
WHF would be a fricking huge cost cutting thing too. Having people not have to live in Burbank, Glendale, or San Fernando means you do not have to pay them the exorbitant cost of living wages and save some production $$$.
You would think more studios would jump at that shit and keep trying to hire people living in Iowa just so they can keep wages down to rural Iowa levels and pay storyboarders $40K a year instead of the Glendale $2.5K a week.
The only reason why they don't is that CEOs use offices as dick-measuring contests. If you don't have people working in the office, why have the office? And if you don't have an office, you might as well not have a dick.
They do love their little fiefdoms where all the worker bees in the building are theirs to command. But that always comes at a huge cost. All the fees for the building, rent, power, utilities, cleaners, trash etc. Before we get around to the employees.
But there are still an army of management boomers that never want change, and think that anything outside their norm is just lazy entitled younguns wanting handouts or no supervisors telling them what to do.
yeah I don't get that. many of the low wages issues would be solved if they got the frick out of cali
You get out of Cali, and the pay rates go down even more. You're not getting paid what you're worth anywhere.
Not to mention employees would arguably get much more work done since they don't have to waste hours driving to and from the office. So much wasted time because CEOs and middle managers need to lord over someone to satiate their egos.
Typical wage cuck
I agree with this Anon. Work from home has fricking decimated rural, conservative housing markets. Go BACK to your shitholes and stop trying to vote for shit here please it was fine before you got here.
Instead of moving the studios to a place with lower cost of living they continue to under pay shitty Cali artists who are going to complain all over the internet about the studio making them look bad.
Those poor poor studios, how they must suffer
Reading comprehension
If they do that, it means it’ll be open the industry to the middle class and you know they can’t have that
looks like Pixar actually sucks
I’ve heard about that before too…
Also wasn’t one of the presidents of the studio involved in a wage fixing scandal
It was literally every single major studio involved in that racket and nothing came of it.
Every studio? Or very major studio? And can you elaborate about it more, I always wanted to know how this racket was being ran and how it all unraveled
> Bullying, abuse, intimidation
I bet my left nut that scenario was the artist in question getting reminded via email or call that they had to meet a deadline. What a fricking pussy.
>worked in innercity retail store
>have seen multiple coworkers ambulance'd out after being attacked by customers
>seen coworkers arrested at work
>long hours
>more than once has someone come in to revenge poop on the floor
There's worse I've seen than that which I'd rather not repeat, but maybe office drama sounds preferable. At least maybe in the states/canada.
>worse than shitting on the floor and physical assaults
Sexual assaults? Please find another job, anon.
I'd like to believe a good bit of the negative ones are people with sour grapes, but at the same time, this is reinforcing the idea that maybe staying indie doing creative bullshit on the side isn't such a bad idea.
Animation sadly will never pay well with how many people are needed and the company wanting to take most the profit. However indie shit usually just fails because most artist cannot commit to a single idea for long, at least when it comes to animation. And indie projects usually fail because the artist end up hating whoever takes charge to keep schedule and or decides to cause drama for attention.
I'd rather be financially stable even if I don't commit to a particular project but have the freedom to do it while not dealing with incompetent higher ups, truth be told. I'm more seeing this from the perspective of someone who fully drank the "make your hobby into a career" Kool-Aid. I'm sure it's more challenging, especially sticking to animation, but it's a little disheartening to hear pretty much all the big name studios here boil down to "no one knows what the frick we're doing, higher ups are ass."
I wonder how much societal damage "work with what you love" has done
Telling people to work a job they enjoy is idiotic cope from people with shitty jobs who also get paid shit. They think if they managed to get a job doing something they enjoyed, it would somehow be less miserable. Guess what, the guy out there barely managing to make enough money to eat playing music at any bar or club he can find, isn't happy because he enjoyed music and made a job out of it. He's more miserable since his dream isn't providing a future for him, and he's so tired of playing after he gets off work he doesn't even want to touch his instrument when he gets home. Instead of an enjoyable hobby, now he just has his job which he doesn't enjoy anyways, and doesn't even want to touch his enjoyable hobby when he has spare time.
Most people don't realize just how miserable they would be if they went from doing something they enjoy when they feel like it to being forced to do it 40+ hours every single week. I like videogames, but I can't play more than 3-4 hours a day anymore without being burnt out. I like sitting on my ass, but more than 2 hours and my ass is getting sore from sitting. Being forced to do something you enjoy is the quickest way to lose your enjoyment for it. Anyone giving that as advice has clearly NEVER tried to follow their own advice.
Sadly there are so many factors that kill animation. But I can see most artist just sticking to commission work because the idea of dealing with the people killing it right now is just not desirable.
We will go through another bit of a dark age until some people with passion pop up in a few years and make good stuff again. I just hope it last a bit before all the problems return, and probably worse than they are now.
People have this delusion in their head that all areas of entertainment pay well except animation when that isn't remotely even true. The only ones getting big bucks are the stars, everyone else makes peanuts
I do wonder how successful a studio could be by letting people work from home, in the other hand it might be easier for frickers to commit leaks
The consequences are too great. Wouldn't eaks get you blacklisted?
A company doing WFH right now would probably be completely outside the mainstream system
We're seeing a ton of leaks NOW precisely because people are burnt out from the shitty working conditions and corporate abuse.
It can't be much easier to leak stuff directly from home, and even then I doubt most people would risk a comfy WFH job just to leak shit.
Working from home seems like one of those things that works great for some group and not for others. Studies say it's a lot better but people abuse the shit out of it, I know it's a negative for my office by and large.
Idk if it's real but there's interesting stuff here.
>People earning 80K a year complain about low pay as much as those making $550 a week
These complains don't mean anything anymore.
Depends where you live.
It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter where you live, or what position you hold, or how much experience you have. If *everyone* is complaining about low pay, then it isn't low pay in the sense that employers are lowballing them. It means this industry as a whole pays like shit.
And to think, these people were threatening others online with blackballing. Those buttholes probably saved their lives.
Isn't it cheap to live in Japan compared to LA?
It is, but they pay less and company culture is way worse. Different flavoring of getting ground into the dirt until you're a burned out husk, but you at least can afford a roof over your head without roomies in Nipland.
Yes, but in a "the glorified storage closet in the sub-basement where you have to shit in the 7-Eleven down the street is priced appropriately for its actual market value" sort of way. Any reasonably sized domicile is expensive as frick in the major cities.
Gotta keep in mind a lot of these people are working off massive student debt. I have a relative who probably 5 or so years ago finally finished paying it off and he's gone on to become a homeowner with the salaries he was earning and saving. You can point and laugh at them for getting student debt, especially private art school debt, but it's probably skewing what they mean by low pay here.
Probably a good bit. You want to remain passionate bout your hobbies and trades, but a business is a business. And to be a public and profitable one requires fundamentally different values than what you personally have as someone who just wants to leave their mark in the world. It's especially bad in America cause there is no arts funding outside the private sector so this is all you're gonna get outside indie shit.
I kind of wish we could return to the days of animation being more of a trade skill than an art. People would get hired at Disney as cell painters and inbetweeners who had zero experience and learned on job with a mentor.
They should do that by making tiers of artists. The novice tiers work on like f- and d-tier shows. The pay may be shit but the experience will lead to promotions in the future.
It would be great cause you could hire in high school and college kids at lower pay to do those and help them grow in the hopes they stay with the company. But sadly unions keep people from doing this because everyone needs a base pay for their role.
Here's your daily reminder that corporations are not your friends, if there were no minimum wage they would be paying $4 an hour and if you quit there would be 10,000 other applicants waiting for your job.
This libertarian garbage was tried in the 1870's-1920's, why don't you go read about how much of a fricking hellscape it was for anyone who wasn't a millionaire if you want to suck corporate dick so bad.
Fricking this
Corporate people seek to make money nothing more, and if they know they have a chance to skirt the law to make more money they will, its just basic human instinct, to be greedy that is, its why we have regulations, because greed corrupts and people cannot be trusted
Not to mention science has proven that the richer you are the higher the chance you have to be an butthole
*and if the now they have even a small chance
If we got rid of the minimum wage, then require a pay ratio between the highest compensated employee (including bonuses, gifts, etc.) and lowest compensated employee (including contract workers which are de facto employees). Make the "boss earns a dollar, I make a dime" meme actually true because somehow it's more like "I make a penny, boss makes a ten, can't wait to eat the rich again".
This doesn't happen anymore because of unions and minimum wage. Students used to get entry level jobs in every industry. But once minimum wage kicked in, that meant employers would have to pay entry level students and entry level adults the same wage, so they always chose adults.
In fact, the earliest wage protections in the US were enacted to protect white workers from cheaper, younger, more competitive black workers.
Why should anyone else care what they consider low pay to be? 1000+ a week is objectively not a low paying job. All their opinion does is speak to their irrational expectations.
The part that drives me nuts is how much they complain about the amount of work they are expected to do when most American animation studios outsource most, if not all, actual animation. They draw shitty storyboards and frick around the rest of the day and whine when they are told to try and keep deadlines.
Don't act like you know what goes into making a storyboard. The difference boards and what is being outsourced is creating a blueprint verses copying a blueprint. That takes more effort and skill than actually animating.
You are a moron. Animating is harder than boarding.
Storyboard artist nowadays are basically doing rough keyframes for animators to trace off. Being an animator has never been easier because they've made the process so fool-proof that an average artist with limited knowledge can do it.
>80K a year is good
>in this economy
Kek
That is twice what I make
The average rent in La is 3k and they don’t stay on projects for average of 1.5 years so they are constantly looking for jobs
Again, that's not the point. If everyone at every experience level and in every location thinks pay is too low, then the problem isn't employer-specific, it's the industry. It's like, you can't complain about low pay if you enter the janitorial profession, and never think to advance into management.
>It's like, you can't complain about low pay if you enter the janitorial profession
damn right
The problem is that the industry is located in an area where the average house costs a million dollars. Animation isn't tech, you can't pay everyone 200k a year and stay in business, it's just not possible.
solution: we move the entire animation industry and push it somewhere else
Hollywood is about to burn so why not.
Housing prices are pretty low here in the Rust Belt.
So the industry is not good enough at siphoning money from the people? Is it because ad money is too spread out for streaming + too many platforms and a dwindling film and TV audience?
80K in Cali is piss poor my man.
If everything is low pay that by definition is the average pay, I can0't wait for AI to repolace them
>AIgay is a spiteful moron
Imagine my shock.
Or it may be considered low because, you know, it doesn't cover rent (let alone utilities, food, etc) for any place within 50 miles of the job they're being forced to commute to for no good reason. That would also qualify as "low pay."
Darn, So Close Rakesh! you almost wrote a stroke-free sentence without using AI’s help! You’ll get em next time buddy just keep at ip
%3D%3D
>aigay posts dicky
go back to pixiv
better yet
That's not AI you moron.
>low pay
>$45/60 per hr and WFH
lol, i earn $22/hr
i make $13/hr
Believe it or not, that's considered low in the LA area.
The $22/hr or $45-60/hr?
Both. Don't believe me? Check out the rent and house costs.
Cities really suck, they should go WFH or bust.
I guess you can say that she's helluva bo-*gets shot*
$21 an hour is still fricking low for anywhere it seems lately. Especially since barely any industries these days want to hire full-time workers.
Christ, I remember being a shift manager at a sub shop for $8.50 for my first job at 19. Still somehow managed to have $2k in savings after a summer but that was also 10 fricking years ago so apparently I was working for what would be $12/hour today. Frick this economy.
more like 30 if you're just starting out, then the rent rapes you.. the only people making 45-50 are senior positions and even then israeli higher ups try to pay you beginner wages
10.5 here
$15 "per active hour" where what I'm doing never actually takes more than 15 to 40 minutes.
I need to get out of the fricking gig economy.
Gig economy “jobs” are bullshit for impulsive, noncommital suckers that would rather get paid peanuts they can cash out immediately over having to work a stable job. If you’re doing uber/doordash/whatever gay shit it is you’re basically putting miles and wear on your car that can barely be covered by the wages the companies offer. Oh yeah, you also get no overtime so you’re being fleeced there as well if you choose to try and work it like a normal job.
No reviews for Warner Bros Animation?
one now
>Bullying, Abuse, Intimidation
>threaten to black list
Given how some animators at every level behave online, I can't say I'm surprised by this. I also can't help but think back to #comicbrokeme. These people are the source of their own problems.
>Art Directors that will give crass comments towards female characters
>characters
Okay, I can't take this one seriously anymore.
>I also can't help but think back to #comicbrokeme. These people are the source of their own problems.
American comicbooks industry is a historical exploitative industry.
>I also can't help but think back to #comicbrokeme. These people are the source of their own problems.
Sincerely, I would like to know what is your damage that you have to specifically piss and moan over a trend that started because comic artist Ian McGinty fricking died from overworking himself.
Oh, you mean a bunch of comics rejects decided to glomp onto a man's death to air their own petty grievances and play victims while they were perpetuating those exact same problems they were complaining about while they worked as editors and withheld pay? Yeah, I would like to piss and moan all over that.
>”This colleague of theirs died of being overworked, how dare they talk about being overworked?!??!???”
>Art Directors will give crass comments towards female characters in the show.
If they’re talking about Animaniacs 2020, the irony would be fricking delicious.
Elaborate. What makes you think that is about Numaniacs?
1. Being animated in 2019, which lines up with the average production time for these sorts of shows
2. “Crass comments about the female characters” seems to be a given for Animaniacs, even the ugly ones
3. Because of how the new show loves to shove feminism down your throat, those crass comments continuing into the production of the new show would be hypocritical as frick
The art directors aren't the writers, they're not responsible for the feminism
Most people assume the animators have something to do with it because of a select number of artists from Tumblr and Twitter are LGBT and work within the industry
Titmouse was always considered one of the cooler animation studios to get into, no surprises they still have some goodwill with their animators
I want more dirt on spindle horse but I know Viv probably has the throats on her workers in the discord forbidding them to sign it
You’re in luck, there’s a couple of Spindlehorse reviews and they ain’t looking too good
>studio run by a woman
>it's nothing but drama, gossip and cliques
Wow what a fricking surprise.
>people are mean there
I really wonder how much of that is just being told to do their job and not frick around.
Apparently out of the big three networks Nickelodeon is doing the best with the most positive reviews.
>All comic book artists fired
>All writers on strike
>All actors on strike
>Animation boys on suicide watch
>Another YouTube apocalypse cropping up
So who's doing well in entertainment? FM radio hosts?
>So who's doing well in entertainment?
Non-Americans
/a/nime
/v/idya more or less
You and I both know Nguyen and Stephaney (she/her) are putting in 140 hours a week each and are still paycheck to paycheck
>Cinemaphileidya more or less
It seems like the biggest fails and most controversies to come from the video game industry is from United States businesses such as Microsoft and Activision-Blizzard.
at least vidya has a decent indie industry, there is barely anything worth it from indie animation
>at least vidya has a decent indie industry,
Kind of. You work in a direct market thanks to Steam, itch.io, eShop and so on so your only real barrier of entry is publishing, which lots of indies self publish too. You actively need to self advertise and promote the hell out of your thing though, and tons of pretty good and decent indie devs fall through the cracks since not everyone can be a Studio MDHR and take out insane loans + get backed by Microsoft or are Toby Fox and omocat who worked off a pre-existing fanbase.
Indie animation basically means YouTube animation which also means Patreon to make it actually profitable. Successes exist (Worthikids is the big example that comes to mind) that operate outside a studio system, but they're not the people getting the big contracts by essentially emulating studios like Vivzie's operation. And in order to get those contracts, you basically have to go through 10 more doors and hoops than your average indie vidya dev who manages to find a half-decent publisher. It's just like the independent press industry, I suppose, so it could be worse.
>Another YouTube apocalypse cropping up
kek. I want to hear more.
Also does this mean studios will get so desperate that they'd be willing to give no name talent like me a chance?
>So who's doing well in entertainment? FM radio hosts?
A lot of people are doing well, they're just not the ones the mainstream media bet on, and continue to ignore even now. It shows just how biased they are, and how narrow their world view is.
This year saw the return of decent-size genre movies outside of superheroes. Mario is a true family film. John Wick 4 is an R rated movie that did fantastic with everyone. M3gan and Insidious show how reliable horror is, even when they aren't great films. Sound of Silence is doing gangbusters even though half of all theaters didn't have enough faith to carry it, and now are playing catch-up. Even adult comedy is coming back.
No one seems to have realized this, but the second most profitable movie for Disney this year behind Guardians 3 is a horror flick. It is at least on track to break even. Everything else is in the red.
Animation is doing well. The top two films of the year so far are animated. Bluey is the number 1 show on Disney+ by a huge margin. As for comics, well, plenty of individuals are having great success doing things their way, doing things on youtube, and the only people still denying it reveal themselves to be delusional and unreasonable. It doesn't matter if some of them are raking in millions on the backs of only a few thousand supporters. That doesn't reflect poorly on them, that reflects poorly on mainstream comic publishers who don't have nearly as big a profit margin.
There are as many wins as there are losses this year. Anyone can see it if they would just take off their tribal filter glasses.
>No one seems to have realized this, but the second most profitable movie for Disney this year behind Guardians 3 is a horror flick. It is at least on track to break even. Everything else is in the red.
Cool. What horror movie?
The Boogeyman. Nobody knows about it, and somehow it has made 66 million against a 35 million budget so far. That's a 1.88 multiple. It will break even at something a little above 2 if it hasn't already, because the majority of its ticket sales were domestic, and it had next to zero marketing.
The Little Mermaid is somewhere between 1.5 ~ 2.2, depending on how much you trust Disney's reported budget numbers. Quantumania is at 1.5 ~ 2.38. Dial of Destiny is at 0.65 ~ 0.87 and doesn't look like it will be going much higher. These movies need to hit 3 or higher to break even, and historically the big Disney movies do 4 ~ 4.5.
Forgot to include the link for why Disney's estimated budgets need to be revised:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/carolinereid/2023/07/01/disney-reveals-doctor-strange-2-cost-100-million-more-than-its-estimated-budget/
Horror movies are really interesting with how much you can potentially make a profit on it. Shit like blair witch and paranormal activity making hundred millions for less than 100k production
Podcast gays prolly idk at this point
Spotify just shitcanned a bunch of money wasting podcasters like some black chick salty that she wasn't as big as Joe Rogan and the Ex-Royals who one of their producers called grifters. In general entertainment is probably so decentralized now that everyone is realizing at the same time their money si going into nothing.
Really only Vidya I'd say is doing okay but I'm not evven sure of that, since all my knowledge comes from Cinemaphile and they love embellishing all bad news while refusing to believe anything else. However they're probably the biggest victims of inflated budgets and they themselves just had a culling of a subset of monetization through Games as a Service when they realized everyone fricking hates it enough to not pay for most.
He should make art about it.
>>All comic book artists fired
Wait what happened?
> become a professional animator
> complain about low pay
I mean, I get it, but at the same time you chose this.
Smiley Guy Studios sounds fricking stupid to work for.
That made me laugh because the only thing I know that company for is this
I love the ones that say Low Pay with $60/hr
Honestly, many of these people are making six
figures and don't deserve it. That undervalues other work such as medicine. I feel as if these people will complain about low pay even if they made $300k per year. I don't care that you're living in LA, you shouldn't be getting paid nearly an engineer or programmer's salary. Artists have value, sure, but too high of a compensation can legitimately sway people from entering healthcare, for instance, which generally benefits the public more.
Like
implied, if you're an artist, part of your job is financial struggle. Always has been. But I'm all for executives getting paid less. They're the biggest leaches of all.
I guess they didn't Warna Brotha.
FRICK OFF CARLOS
Lo siento.
> Artists have value, sure, but too high of a compensation can legitimately sway people from entering healthcare,
They still wouldn't enter the healthcare field?
>?
No they wouldn't have obviously, even with lower compensation we still have janitors and shit. Anon's complaint makes zero fricking sense and is probably a shit post.
No matter how much you defend them they won't give your foreskin back, bro.
Art is not a job
Art will never be a viable job
Art is just a fricking scam
Artists are leeches that never once learned a useful marketable skill to actually turn into a career
Time to wake the frick up and get over it anon. Art is a hobby, not a career choice.
you are a bitter lonely homosexual
>Artists are leeches that never once learned a useful marketable skill
Nobody knows a “useful marketable skill”. Coding, carpentry, plumbing, etc, all trades are just as atomized and worthless in the eyes of current day business as art is. Only reason some do better than others is that unions exist for em. But pretty much all of them are just as undervalued while the Business majors who graduated in “learning how to job” get to talk about what’s a useful skill or not.
One of the things a MBA teaches you is to call everyone useless and all workers leeches. The only thing that matters is to keep pay low in the name of the shareholders.
I'd love to see what these people actually qualify as bullying and abuse
Wow, Skydance sounds exactly as shit as their movies. Meanwhile Nick and Titmouse are looking like relatively decent places to do work for, the former is especially surprising. Just don't sell your ideas to em, I guess.
>Low pay
>60 dollars an hour to paint backgrounds
Frick these clowns.
Like many people have said in this thread, that’s nothing when compared to the insane cost of the capitals of the North American Animation Industry, LA, Vancouver, NYC, Toronto, San Francisco are all ridiculously expensive, 60 bucks an hour will get you a shitty apartment and that’s it
Gonna be honest, I know people who live in those cities being paid well under that and yet managing an apartment with not too many living partners. Like 18-20$ an hour.
Shit should absolutely be cheaper for things that are necessary to live, but you can eek out a comfortable life at $60 an hour if you're not paying off student loans for the rest of your existence, which a lot of these industry artists probably are.
Because they have consitant hours or some job stability dumbass.
>all the bad reviews for spindle horse
Glad I didn't send in an application when I was desperate in the beginning trying to get experience. I thought it could have been a good way to make connections and get used to working in animation but I didn't want to deal with Vivzie and her rabid fans following me. I made the right choice.
Don't care if where they live is expensive. They need to learn to mange their money better. Some of my industry friends/contact straight up ask me for money to borrow for rent and food cause they spend theirs all on unnecessary shit. I wish I was kidding.
NYC's great multiple great public transit systems mean you can live far from Manhattan and still get to the office.
Apparently LA also has a pretty good public transit train system, it’s just that no one uses it lol
That's if Black folk, homeless, and homeless Black folk don't eat you alive first.
>>60 dollars an hour to paint backgrounds
It means nothing if your work schedule is inconsistent.
Today you are working on a show then immediately you are iut of a job because the said show ended
It seems a lot of issues might be solved in animation studios were willing to set up outside of LA and expensive cities, but that would mean the networking options for the management to interface with the studio heads would lessen and Hollywood exists to network, that's why they all moved to California in the first place, so they could film in a vareity of locations from a central hub.
The average nergo woke experience
>Most of these complaints are about low pay
Was animation wages always this dogshit? I wonder how it was in the 90s and 00s. Also a quarter of the complaints being about employees hate working on projects they think is goyslop is hilarious as that's persistent in every era really.
>Also a quarter of the complaints being about employees hate working on projects they think is goyslop is hilarious as that's persistent in every era really.
Most Artists would rather be working on something they personally like/Have some good leve of creative freedom
You'll never hear an artist give genuine complaints about working on their own Project
This most likely is correlated with the fact artists having less and less freedom to create stuff as the years go by. These posts are from an industry person.
A-are you saying they...they use to....
they use to clean up animation for free??
couldn't happen to a nicer group of people.
Wonder what it was.
>positive
>Healthy working hours
Being called slurs without tolerable hours is important after all.
Bento Box is exactly what I thought it would be. Completely soulless.
Surprised by the mostly postie reception for Titmouse, though.
>1800 a week
>low pay
Kill the union.
Cinemaphile discussing pay rates is like when the kids in the simpsons hold Skinner hostage and look at his paychecks and think he's a millionaire because they calculate how long he's been working as if he's been getting paid the same since he was born. Or like when people see what tradejobs make and don't realize many people doing physical labor get their bodies fricked up by the time they hit 45 and can't work as much if at all.
Protip if you see someone getting paid a a seemingly high hourly wage, it's very likely they aren't getting that many working hours.
>Protip if you see someone getting paid a a seemingly high hourly wage, it's very likely they aren't getting that many working hours.
many of this buttholes are also listing their weekly pay/weekly hours, so no. frick 'em b***hing about earning 50-60 an hour as 'low pay.
Many of those butthole don't work 52 weeks a year
Good, it would be better for the medium if they didn't work at all.
again, same thing. They aren't necessarily working those weeks 52 weeks a year.
anyone calling earning $50+ an hour 'low pay' is a piece of shit who doesn't know what 'low pay' is
It’s because they have unreliable work and can go a long time without work so they have to stock up on money. It’s different when you work on feature where they keep you on forever
this is extremely interesting, and some people/anons will go 'well hurr durr animation sucks' and yeah, the clique is bad and cartoons haven't been good for ten years but I will say that dismissing this shit as unimportant is why we're dealing with this garbage in the first place and why these institutions are overrun with hacks, money vampires and napoleons who don't give a shit about making anything good actually happen
I'm not entirely sure how some gigs work but if you have to bill your hours then it also gets into territory where you have to be extremely careful, and most likely under-bill yourself to avoid getting audited. friend works as a public defender and you think 'wow! $50/hr sounds great' until you work 30-40 hours a week and ultimately get paid for half of it if you're lucky
Sad to see 9story get shit on a bit for being uninspiring and behind in few years for cutout animation.
Some half truths in these statements and really depends on what show and who was the show runner.
Pretty decent North American studio and one of the best in Toronto imo even if the show are for little babies
All these jobs are contract and short. The longest contract u will have is 1 year and you have to renew it if the show had a second season. So you morons complaining about pay have no idea what the frick you are talking about, these are very volatile positions that can wiped out if the show is cancelled and very short term periods of work and maybe you won’t get a contract so easily next time you look for work
boo frickin' hoo
join the line
ok we think you should get paid more now too.
What now?
I think I'm paid enough for the job I have.
And I think 50+ an hour is more than enough for most hourly work. People at the that end don't need to be paid more, people on the high end need to be paid less.
What now?
without downward pressure on the upper echelon of wages, all increasing low wages does is lead to an increase to the base standard essentially keeping things in place. without wage caps, if CEOs aren't getting their pay reduced, all an increase in wages does is give temporary relief before inflation hits returning the worker back to where they started.
without maximum wage, minimum wage is just a bandaid.
Is it getting updated or is still all there is?
>Is it getting updated or is still all there is?
20 entries dated today, the 17th. So probably
Are these any legits
God this thread is fricking great.
>Wow I can believe these hecking lazy artists with low job stability who are getting 80k a year are complaining about low pay, when they live in Cali, a place where that sort of money will probably only buy them a shitty apartment, while they also probably have to deal with college debt being on their asses as well. I'm gonna compare it to my personal job and life occupation despite that I probably live in bum ass nowhere town in Atlanta where 50 bucks an hour is basically luxury.
Once, Cinemaphile is trying speak out on an issue it knows jack shit about. The absolute state of this board lel.
I understand being anonymous is to protect the worker. I get the reasons why and I'm for it.
On the other hand, there are a LOT of mentally unstable people such as pic related who have jobs in the entertainment industry. There are times where these emotionally stunted people will take one bad meeting and blow it up as a toxic environment that people need to avoid. Or it's possible they didn't gel with the vibe there to begin with and rather than saying it's "not for me", they feel excluded or targeted. If you work for a company that has a reputation for not wanting gay representation and you keep pushing for it, yeah, you're going to have more eyes on you than someone who is just content following the script and clocking out every day.
For example, Daron Nefcy's experiences at Disney are VERY different from Dana Terrace's. CH Greenblatt's time at Nickelodeon is wildly different than Butch Hartman's. And so on.
How to fix this? I don't know. You don't, I guess. When the reviews heavily skew towards positive or negative, there's probably a pattern, but what do you do when it's a 50/50?
Somebody needs to draw this b***hes avatar getting fricked by Bob Camp.
There's definitely a selection bias going on here. People who are having a great time, or just an average one, in the industry have little reason to participate in this survey. To be cynical about this, the ones who do have good jobs aren't going to advertise it because it gives them more competition. Animation is practically part of the gig economy at this point. Everyone's competing for the same short-term contracts.
>When the reviews heavily skew towards positive or negative, there's probably a pattern, but what do you do when it's a 50/50?
Here's the other weird thing about these people and many posters on Cinemaphile. They are adamant that animation is an abusive industry, and has historically been so. If that's the case, why stay in it? Any time there is the slightest suggestion that artists should consider going independent, which some have successfully, posters let fly with the accusation of corporatist, capitalist dicksucking. Those who argue for this are in fact the ones perpetuating the abuse, perpetuating these companies and their practices, because the greatest weapon workers have against companies is walking away. If that is not on the table, the companies have no reason to improve.
>why stay in it?
They all want to be the next Genndy/Craig while growing up. It's not until AFTER they're knee deep in student loan debt they find out how many pitches Genndy and Craig get rejected between the shows they do make. When they do find out, it's too late because the only sort of education they have is Animation and doing unskilled/manual labor is beneath those types.
Well I didn't mean they should leave animation entirely. Everyone dreams of making their passion their job, and that's perfectly fine. I meant they need to leave the corporate/network machine as it currently exists. Union actions would only ever get incremental changes that are not systemic. For that to happen, animators need to show they not only don't need these corporations, they can become their competition. Some already do.
All of this comes across like battered wife syndrome. They hate their bosses guts, they hate the investors' guts, they hate capitalism, but they don't want to leave. I can't even call this pathetic, because I can't feel sympathy for this. It's frustration at the banality of it all. It's the same story again and again.
>why stay in it?
in the business of story telling dont you think at least a small percentage of employees want to stand up for the little guys? considering the industry's reputation of *blacklisting* calling out corruption or straight up incompetence is heroic from anyone with the talent and balls to do so. sure, some artists are entitled snowflakes but lots of managers are unqualified psychopaths as well. somewhere in the middle good people gotta call out bullshit or else nothing will improve, even if its only an anonymous spreadsheet
>in the business of story telling dont you think at least a small percentage of employees want to stand up for the little guys?
That's a nice sentiment, but that's not really what this is. If they want to do that meaningfully, they can't do it anonymously. Furthermore, we need those who actually have the experience and the clout to call this out *and* take concrete steps to address it, like walking away and starting independent businesses that are competitive and whose success have a direct relationship to fans. There is no leverage without this. Stop thinking about this as if any of us are taking sides. I'm telling you if you want to win, this isn't going to give you the results you need.
>considering the industry's reputation of *blacklisting*
Funny thing, I see public threats of blacklisting coming from animators themselves more often than anyone else.
>somewhere in the middle good people gotta call out bullshit or else nothing will improve, even if its only an anonymous spreadsheet
Not speaking is not the point I was making at all. I'm saying don't stay in an abusive relationship. If the argument is "but they have the money", then you've only reiterated their power. They will *always* be the ones with money as long as you work for them.
Practically every single complaint is low pay or too much work or both.
AI gonna take our jobs!