Are the people who queerify characters like Jon not realize that they've now made the character completely unmarketable to the young male demographic he was originally created for? Gay male characters don't sell unless their two cute boys kissing in a female-targeted romance story.
The problem isn't that they're gay, the problem is that the writers make their entire personality gay.
No, the problem is literally that they're gay. Not that being gay is "problematic" or anything, but that young men who aren't gay themselves don't want to read, watch, or play stories with gay male characters in anything besides a secondary or antagonistic role. They just don't. This is why almost all stories with gay male leads that marketed toward small LGBT audiences or large female audiences.
Gay Jon Kent doesn't have and never will have any momentum behind him. He won't move any books or merchandise or carry any popular movies or TV shows. He only exists to pander and virtue.
So they should just make being anti-gay the current thing so young men will go gay to own the libs.
You guys aren't getting it. I'm just going to start saying "shounen audience" like the Japanese do instead of "young male demographic" from now on because it's shorter and also is essentially the same demographic (10 to 18 year old boys). The shounen audience doesn't want stories with gay male leads. They'll take stories with MCs not their race, height, age, weight, nationality, or that are even female; but a male character that is uninterested in girls and only interested in other guys is where most of them will draw the line. If Peter Parker came out as gay with Miles and it then became canon across every form of Spider-Man media that the Spider-Men are now a gay superhero duo, the Spider-Man brand would die.
It's not that the shounen audience hates interracial gay relationships or that they want to live vicariously through Peter and Miles when they frick MJ or Gwen. They just don't like it that much. For the same reason they don't they don't like steamy overdramatic romance stuff that much compared to female audiences, hence those types of stories don't get marketed to them because the people making it know it wouldn't sell. Different audiences simply have different things that appeal to them. Trying to force things upon an audience that doesn't want it is like trying to force a square peg into a round hole and then burning some of your money.
Ever think maybe it's you? How exactly are you qualified to speak for a significant percentage of the population of the planet?
List comics, novels, games, movies, etc. marketed toward 10-year-old to early 20s men with a gay male lead that were commercial successes.
The Hollow.
homie, that show literally got canceled after the second season where the MC came out as gay.
Nta, but that show still made money through merch sales.
>commercial successes
Lmao that show sucked shit and no one cares it got cancelled.
It!
Voltron: Legendary Defender
>Voltron: Legendary Defender
It's kind of hard to tell whether something on a streaming service is or isn't actually successful. But once you've paid your streaming sub that basically applies to all shows on that service. They might have called Castlevania or Voltron a success when most people who pay for the service just got it because they wanted to watch Scrubs or whatever's on netflix now, I don't really know.
Voltron and Castlevania were successful "at first" but then they dropped the ball hard to the point that even shitty shows like the live action Cowboy Bebop beat Castlevania in viewership or how the new show had the lowest views in the entire run on a higher budget compared to the actual anime Netflix produced like Baki or Seven Deadly Sins
>live action Cowboy Bebop beat Castlevania in viewership
This is not true at all. Cowboy bebops first episode has more views because everyone wants to see a trashfire and then it's not only bad but boring so they don't bother to see the rest of the series.
i fricking hate that adaptation
doesn't that series have the most toxic fandom?
He’s absolutely right though. There isn’t a single male character who is popular with boys that is gay or bisexual. There’s a reason they made Tim gay and not Jason or Dick.
>There isn’t a single male character who is popular with boys that is gay or bisexual.
There barely exist any gay/bi male characters that are major characters. Just being LGBTQ doesn’t ensure or lead to popularity same way being cis and straight doesn’t.
pic related, Togashi tried to publish a gay manga on WSJ and the initial reaction was the worst possible
And this confirms that Hunter x Hunter is "Yaoibait the Anime" and Gon and Killua would absolutely be a gay couple if editorial allowed Togashi to get away with it.
>10 year olds
>do things friends do
>fujos: their gay im cooming
>editorial rejected x years ago and this means you could not release something like that even today
You couldn’t publish an openly gay comic by the big two without labelling it for strictly adults less than twenty years ago. Now you can. Attitudes change.
I'm pretty sure the average WSJ editor is aware that the average jump reader has 0 interest in homosexual shit
Right, that’s why it’s never been popular to make yaoi doujins of Jump characters and franchises. Oh wait! Literally the opposite!
fujoshi are not the primary WSJ audience, homosexual. And by that logic CN, Nickelodeon and Disney should start making porn just because the internet is filled with R34 of their shows
Do you think the primary demographic for WSJ and other shounen magazines is the same demographic that creates and consumes BL doujins?
Primary? No. Average? Probably.
You know nothing about japan. They don't have the same taboos about homosex as in the west, but there's a certain order to these things.
You're an expert, then?
this attitude change is the reason why comics are selling worse than ever
>But once I realized it wasn't what I wanted at all
>There were outside forces pushing me into being somebody I wasn't comfortable being
Tattoos
Piercings
Makeup
Fashion she'll wear for 5 minutes then buy a new set
Hair dye + products
Bubble tea
Divorced
Gay
Non-binary or Trans
Next panel is about a violent insurrection, "No peace!", "Frick you, cops!"
New church, still indoctrinated.
Yep. gay shit is just not what guys want to see. You can do that for other demographics tho.
Shonen manga has a 70/30 split women to men.
And practically no gay shit since authors, publishers and editors know they are targeted young boys. They don't wanna see that stuff.
Targeting a 12 to 18 demographic isn't working out for them though. Women by more and they buy merch. It's why authors like Tomino are fine with women shipping Char and Amuro because they were the ones who supported the series. It's why so much gaybaiting happens in the first place.
Buying merch doesn't matter much since guys are buying the manga too and are the authors are creating works for dudes. They aren't gonna make it a shojo just because girls also like the book.
Merch sales matter much more than manga dude. It's where most of the money is. Manga doesn't make remotely the same amount of money.
It doesn't really matter what the manga sales are when again, merch sales matter more. Shonen only targets one demographic because of dinosaurs but it's having issues compared to other models. Jump for instance hasn't had a "Top 3" in a long while. They have one piece and that's it.
The original Gundam anime succeeded because of women buying merch. This does not equate to shonen manga sales. They're still targeted to boys regardless of the female readership. Even female mangaka writing shonen know it needs to appeal to male audiences.
Tomino didn't care because it didn't matter to his writing. He wrote the same shit he always did.
Women will ship any group of men that spend time together. You don't write gay shit to pander to them, you write your standard story and let them play with their gay toys.
Shojo manga and its merch sell like shit because ultimately women don't matter that much. They don't actually want stuff that caters to them. They want series made for men they can jerk off to.
There are very few big franchises that appeal to women alone. There are far more that can only be enjoyed by men.
That is not for a lack of trying to get women to watch/read/buy. The reality is that they just don't care.
There's that whole shtick about how important it is for little gay kids to feel represented and how much it means to the lone gay boy in a small town to know that the most important character ever, Superman (lmao), is gay like him... but that sort of sappy bullshit never really pans out, does it? We're so far past the era of people needing to be closeted and fearing that the roving lynch gangs of gay-bashing rednecks that I can't imagine any homosexual anywhere feeling like they need a character in a comic no one fricking cares about to "represent" them by having him date some obnoxious pink-haired twink that only exists as "superboy's gay boyfriend"
>We're so far past the era of people needing to be closeted and fearing that the roving lynch gangs of gay-bashing rednecks
You literally have states like Florida banning the existence or acknowledgment of gay people in schools until you’re in college. Every fricking year conservatives freak out over pride month. To pretend homophobia and bigotry doesn’t exist anymore is delusional denial of reality just because it isn’t as mainstream and openly acceptable as it used to be.
its the correct way i wish more schools did that
having an entire month devoted to a demographic is the pinnacle of narcisism. You are just butthurt because not everyone is willing to worship the ground you step on.
Says the person seething that people bother to take one month of the year to show positive support towards a historically oppressed minority group. Meanwhile straight people get twelve months and 365 days of the year by default.
last time I checked those responsible for perpetuating the human species were non-buttfrickers
Another stupid bigot doesn’t understand sexuality doesn’t determine your ability to have children
you don't reproduce, you recruit
they literally can't reproduce you are a dead end
no one celebrates the normal means of procreation on any of the 12 months of the year, its almost like its natural. homosexuals need to frick off with taking a whole month its obnoxious
Father’s Day is in June, and it’s supposed to be Men’s Mental Health Awareness Month. Pride Month overshadowed it.
Oh yeah nobody ever talks about fathers day. And men’s mental awareness is not a celebration, so what exactly you want, depression and bipolar shirts and flags on the streets instead of actually improving mental health access?
Sounds like a skill issue. Like you can bring awareness to both just don't make it look like you are only doing it in response to the love Pride gets.
Frick gay pride
>banning the existence or acknowledgment of gay people in schools
Anon, school isn't the place to discuss fetishes. Hell, back when I was in school, sex ed only really brought up genital anatomy and STDs.
The "Don't Say Gay" bill didn't exist and the bill you think you're talking about didn't do what you think it does, you hysterical moron.
They literally banned rainbows after that bill was passed, disingenuous dipshit
>There's that whole shtick about how important it is for little gay kids to feel represented and how much it means to the lone gay boy in a small town to know that the
If people thought logically, they'd notice this and say "Okay but how do you plan on selling comics to 99.9% of the population then?" and the response of "Comics?" should let everyone know to stop spending money tomorrow.
>Okay but how do you plan on selling comics to 99.9% of the population then?
You don’t have to be gay to like and want to read gay characters. Only bigots won’t and bigots can go frick themselves, they are not the only people reading comics or a majority.
Only bigots would reject reading straight characters. Why would you need a gay character?
Where is there a call to reject all straight characters, except in your strawman mind?
The only strawman here is yours.
Why do you need gay characters?
Why do you need straight characters?
Apparently I don't, but they're what we started with, so why do you want that to change?
Surely it is wrong to?
>I want gay characters to exist and be used.
So why are straight characters made gay? Surely that's erasure of sexuality and identity? Something you loathe?
I think you're both bigots who don't like coexisting on this planet with a diversity.
>Surely that's erasure of sexuality and identity?
Yeah there’s such a giant void when it comes to heterosexuality being depicted in media
People who whine about gays are the ones who are always the first to bring up shit. Weird isn’t it? Almost like they have a scat obsession
Still erasure. Make your own gay shit and stop ruining stuff for other people. This is why people complain about Jon.
nope gays keep trying to force their shit where it doesn't belong and are the first to cry when tey rightfully get told to frick off
because i dislike seeing gay shit
I don’t need anything. I want gay characters to exist and be used. Why do you need comics to be a safe space strictly to bigoted neckbeards?
Not that anon but it's not even a "safe space" issue, gay characters in comics by and large just don't generate readership and making previously established characters gay decreases readership. You can want gay characters to exist and be used but other people don't owe you or your pet gay characters any loyalty. They'll spend their money and attention on things they do like instead.
Being straight does not make a comic sell.
It has less hurdles to deal with then a book about a gay character. However, I won't deny that most books focusing on gay characters tend to focus on the wrong things.
Really, the gay boyfriend they give these characters is just an easy out compared to the fact that most of them would probably sleep around. Though, that'd probably be most superheroes and they don't seem to want to actually go into one night stands or sleeping around as a habit.
all over social media
To be fair, if every character spent so much of their time on screen crabbing to the viewers how hard it is being gay and how nobody understands it, even queer people would give up on reading that kind of book. There kind of needs to be some balance showing that there's still good things in their lives worth fighting for. Yeah, there absolutely is merit in having your heroes reflect some of the struggles you deal with on a daily basis, but too much obsessing over it basically ends up feeling like the writers are just shoving it in your face how much normal society doesn't like you and wants you silenced or worse, and queer people are already reminded about it daily from their own peers. Sometimes you just want the superheroes beating the shit out of buttholes that deserve it to, like, escape from the bullshit of geriatric republicans whining how the gays are brainwashing kids or whatever. And something like that is stuff EVERYONE can enjoy.
>You don’t have to be gay to like and want to read gay characters
The kind of straight people who care about gay characters don't buy comics. Kind of like how the majority of diversity pandering only really appeals to white, suburbanite adult women who love talking about it on twitter, but don't watch, don't buy merch, and don't actually enjoy it on any level except as a symbolic gesture.
The overwhelming majority of straight people want a good story about interesting characters. Two teen boys going "WE'RE SO GAY! GAYGAYGAYGAY YAAAASSSS DRAG QUEENS" is not only boring, but extremely off-putting and annoying. It's not even about bigotry or intolerance as much as it's just simply not entertaining and people want to be entertained more than they want to feel like they are contributing to some nebulous social rights movement that has no real objective beyond virtue signaling louder and harder.
>The kind of straight people who care about gay characters don't buy comics.
I AM A RUGGED AND TOTALLY HETERO MALE AND I LIKE COMICS WHERE BURLY MUSCULAR MEN IN TIGHTS FLEX AND WRESTLE OTHER CHADS
You have a scat fetish. You're no better than the pajeets who eat dung out of a cow's ass.
nah homosexuals can go frick themselves real people don't like you arrogant c**ts
>There's that whole shtick about how important it is for little gay kids to feel represented and how much it means to the lone gay boy in a small town to know that the most important character ever, Superman (lmao), is gay like him
that just turns kids into sociopaths
unironically yes they should things were so much better when anti-gay was the norm
That's the writers fault not the character. Kate is actually liked for how well she's written as almost a normal human. You're not mad at her for being a lesbian, you get mad at her because she's a massive b***h that uses people for her own validation but who also sometimes makes the right decisions.
Like when she sniped clayface.
Kate isn't going after the 12-18 male demo though.
You're only halfway right. It's still males reading most superhero comics, anon.
OP is just a bigot.
Still doesn't apply because most men aren't turned off by lesbians
That's a 'men being shit' problem.
Also people like Midnighter and the current Alan Scott book. Plus people love slash in general.
Jon not being received as well is entirely a writing problem.
>Also people like Midnighter and the current Alan Scott book.
>the current Alan Scott book.
shit bait
the only thing thats shit are gays that push their agenda
>the current Alan Scott book
how much is DC paying you to be a shill?
I never claimed she wasn't targeting a male audience, I said she wasn't targeting a demo of the male audience like a teenage superman.
>Kate is actually liked
Is she though?
She was, briefly.
The difference is, Kate was well-written and had more personality than just being gay. It didn't hurt that her series were mostly pretty good up until Williams left, and that she was basically the first and only major lesbian character at that time. Plus she was still "sexy" enough to plausibly appeal to the boys.
When the frick did Batwoman had a JoJo tattoo on her back?
>Kate is actually liked for how well she's written as almost a normal human.
Nobody reads Batwoman because she's an unlikeable character. There's a reason why her books sell like shit.
>plebe
Can Americans say this word right for once?
Her comic is aimed at an older audience, one predominantly still male, but no longer teenaged.
>You're not mad at her for being a lesbian
straight men don't mind lesbians, anon
>straight men don't mind lesbians, anon
This is a problem. Straights like the idea of le sexy lesbian women so they ignore all the abuse actual lesbians do while scrutnizing gay men for cherrypicked cases
>Kate is actually liked
she isn't though
He exists for a writer to gain vast amounts of social clout and win awards and have news stories written about them congratulating them for making a gay superman character. Frick what actually happens n the book, or to the book. Even if it tanks, the writer still solidified themselves in current year news media history.
And will likely manage to pull a tv writing gig out of this whole move.
Nice word salad dork
Didn't read btw
then FRICK OFF!
This. The fact that Jon's homosexual killed the character, and there is no "tactful" way to handle it either - just just can't have a homosexual male as a lead if your audience is straight men.
Bisexual, anon. Jon isn't homosexual.
For all intents and purposes he's full gay now, they aren't gonna give him a girlfriend or show him attracted to women in anyway.
Never say never. True, it might be even a decade before he finds a love interest of the opposite sex. But that isn't to say it won't ever happen. Daken Akihiro from Marvel has been in a relationship with a female for the last four years. John Constantine meanwhile has been in several entanglements with men and women alike.
Those are the only two guys, and they've been bi for a long time now.
Nowadays bi means gay, alongside nonbinary or whatever.
So unless a bisexual is a huge bawd since day one they are just gay, because your lizard brain can’t accept the fact that in periodical publishing it takes years to establish and consistently depict people in relationships
Nah, I'm saying these people hate the idea of someone who can choose a homosexual relationship, pick a straight one instead.
now that you mention, not being straight is the only thing that makes me unable to relate with a male character of any kind
Not true. Midnighter and Apollo were my favorite characters in The Authority and their sexuality was the last thing I was thinking about because it wasn't their entire personality. Also it was Millar and Quitely, not Tom Taylor and GayFace Artist #3
>because it wasn't their entire personality.
Yet their gayness was constantly coming up, it was regularly talked about in the classic shoving it in your face manner because they regularly fought anti-gay bigots, they made a huge deal about them getting married, they adopted a child… There was even a fricking Midnighter story where he goes back in time and tries to kill Hitler and encounters time travellers who are alp bisexual because that’s what humanity evolves into in the future.
Apollo and Midnighter could not be more unapologetic about being gay and it is hilarious how people today go “achtually that was okay but this shit today is out of line!!!” when back then any of that shit was way more incendiary and controversial. It’s a complete double standard. These were characters whose book was getting censored by DC at the time because it was too mean against George Bush and regularly had wear politics on my sleeve stories. But you think they handled being gay better and with more nuance than today? Give me a fricking break.
Just say you hate gay people and be done with it.
i do
>No, the problem is literally that they're gay. Not that being gay is "problematic" or anything, but that young men who aren't gay themselves don't want to read, watch, or play stories with gay male characters in anything besides a secondary or antagonistic role.
It's amazing that the people who keep saying "representation matters" don't understand this. Straight white men aged 16-35 don't want to spend money on media made for the queers.
If comic creators want that money, they need to represent the people who spend it.
>Straight white men aged 16-35 don't want to spend money on media made for the queers.
Does that dissuade them when it comes to other forms of media that doesn't cater to them? Say there's a book, game, or movie with a predominant black cast. Would you say it was necessarily made for that demographic in mind? No, but they still go out and consume it.
the target audience for minstrel shows has always been white people
this is true whether it's pickaninny circus, the next hip hop album, a movie about black people loitering at a hair salon, or a game about blacks stealing and killing
>Say there's a book, game, or movie with a predominant black cast. Would you say it was necessarily made for that demographic in mind? No, but they still go out and consume it.
God damn you've spent this whole fricking thread being willfully ignorant and now you're just flat out lying.
Lying about what? I was simply arguing anons statement about demographics and consumption. People still consume it no matter who its trying to cater too.
White people HATED Fresh Prince, Family Matters, and The Cosby Show, right?
>Fresh Prince
Watch the blacks try to act white
>Family Matters
Watch the blacks try to act white
>Cosby
Watch the blacks try to act white
>Moesha
>blacks acting black
>nobody watches and it ends up relegated to a 4:30 PM timeslot on BET
Did white people hate the Boondocks?
I can't speak for all of us, but every time I tried to watch an episode I got bored and switched channels.
This white guy I used to work with cracked up when I greeted him in the morning one time by saying "Hello, Ruckus" in my best Ronald Reagan voice.
t. blackanon
Moesha was on early UPN.
The others were in well known Networks.
>Say there's a book, game, or movie with a predominant black cast. Would you say it was necessarily made for that demographic in mind?
Yes you fricking moron. There's an entire industry of shitty B-movies by and for black people.
The amount of seethe this caused is great, put me in the screencap.
My biggest issue with many gay, lesbian, trans and bi people is the fact that it's often the most interesting thing about them. They're often so supremely fricking boring.
That's why they're "gay" in the first place. It's not because they are actually are attracted to the same gender, its because they know that, otherwise, they're just another average boring nobody with no real identity of their own.
That's why they love all the latest buzzword identities, like non-binary or queer. there's even less commitment to an actual sexual orientation.
My experience is that they are extremely angry, rage-filled people looking to piss someone off so they can have some story or triumphing over adversity that day. They are b***hy buttholes to each other almost nonstop.
Here's the twist, tho: I'm a legit homosexual.
But that's just about the least interesting thing about me so I seldom bring it up.
NOT LIKE YOU GUYS, RIGHT? YOU WOULDN'T BE CONSTANTLY POSTING ABOUT BEING STRAIGHT, RIGHT? YOU GUYS WOULDN'T BE MAD ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE'S EXISTENCE, RIGHT?
Whether that it's a matter of the gayness being to prevalent or the character having nothing else going on besides being gay, it amounts to a bad character that no publisher in their right mind would support, let alone continue to aggressively push for any reason other than a misguided and poorly thought out social engineer agenda.
That's true but for some people them being gay is a deal break.
It's true. Apart from dedicated blue-haired weirdo's on Twitter, the main reading audience (aka straight males) don't want to read about a gay male protagonist.
Again the answer is simple: men read characters like He-Man and Superman and idealize themselves in them: it's a form of vicarious escapism. Super-powers, get the girl, always win, etc. The vast majority do not want to fantasize about getting railed in the ass by a pink-haired twink.
And despite what Cinemaphile and Reddit say, the vast majority of men are straight, with the minority not being the exception that disproves the rule.
This just sounds like your brain is hardwired to think: muscular men exist = homoeroticism. Definitely a you problem.
Just like you're hardwired to think: gay people exist = terrible storytelling/non-escapism. Definitely a (you) problem.
>No u!
C'mon man, you can do better than that you gross little gay.
But then you still have Clark to self insert as.
Leaving Jon for the rest.
That's the thing anon, they just don't want gay characters in any facet within the medium. At best they'll permit lesbians but only to fetishize.
>they just don't want gay characters in any facet within the medium. At best they'll permit lesbians but only to fetishize.
They haven't been properly...stimulated yet.
That pic looks ai generated
>I am a bigot and I will now tell you what all straight men think and act like as a monolith
Frick off already.
Frick off straightoid
the only oid is you gayoid
>no you
Absolute state of breeders. Go frick a girl and have kids you fricking goy
You’re a weapon of class warfare homosexual, why do you think supporting your degeneracy is a “core tenet” of the current state departments foreign policy? You undermine the natural population of countries and support the destruction of children
>he actually believes this tripe
touching grass is not enough; you need to a whole yard shoved up your ass
>“core tenet” of the current state departments foreign policy?
its called basic human rights not to murder people based on their sexuality
>You undermine the natural population of countries and support the destruction of children
pretty sure capitalism has made it too expensive to raise children in this day and age, so everybody is opting not to have children
Look up the bozahi boys and see what the US believes is important about protecting you anon. Why is it wrong for the rest of the world to see you for what you are? And why are you worth violating the boarders of other countries for?
>If you aren’t discriminating and killing gays you’re destroying children!
Go see a shrink
>if you don’t force homosexualry in all this children’s media, it’s literally genocide
That’s pathetic gay
It’s not being forced. You want to claim it is to make it bad because you’re a triggered bigot.
>it isn’t being forced
>completely cut the international appeal of certain characters they want to make movies about to pander, just embrace being a tool of control, it’s the only control you have.
>The problem isn't that they're gay
Stopped right there.
Most of this is DC's fault. If they wanted a gay slice of life book then make one. But don't try to hide it in super hero adventure stories. Your writes are not good enough to pull it off.
No, it literally is. Let's get this out of the way. Bigotry is real, and its deserved.
Gay people be like
>my entire identity is penis and poopyhole
Straight people be like
>my entire personality is thinking about other people having gay sex
>doesn't make supersons gay
Do they just hate money?
That's just appealing to fujos.
Appealing to fujos is still a money generator
So why isn’t DC making any?
Because fujos only have so much money and have better options. Fujoshi still demand some semblance of quality from the shit pandering to them.
Because fujos want supersons not soulless corporate pink haired boy.
>They could have just made DamiJon canon
>They would have had their gay characters for marketing purposes and a happy fanbase of fujos
>Pair Jon with some lispy noname twink which leaves nobody happy
>DC will never learn their lesson or revert this decision
Darkest Timeline for sure.
Remember they did this TWICE. First was Tim & not pairing him with Connor Superboy.
As a gay guy it don't appeal to me, one character that i like is Daken(who is bi) because his sexuality isn't his entire personality and he makes use of his good looks and sexuality to get what he wants(also helps that Daken is very hot looking and is shirtless often)
>also helps that Daken is very hot looking and is shirtless often
Based. I think he and Iceman would've been better off as a couple. But at least he has Aurora.
>because his sexuality isn't his entire personality
Except him seducing people with his powers was a significant feature since day one and his most important character trait in the past several years has been getting into a relationship with a woman. His sexuality literally keeps being a major defining feature in his stories.
>Well yeah but I find him hot so it’s suddenly okay
Exactly.
It's not the fact that they're gay, it's the fact that their partners are boring as frick.
If they were paired with someone they had chemistry with or history with that's one thing, but throwing a bargain basement twink at them is as bad as throwing a bimbo at Spider-man or Wolverine.
Who are these people, why should we as the audience care about them? Because they're fricking the hero? Is that it?
Where's the hook? Where's the pizazz? Goddammit where's the showmanship?
Hell for that matter why does the hero want to frick them? What bond does this guy have with Jon? I don't fricking know him, I haven't seen him in Jon's adventures before the "big reveal." He only exists so Jon has a visible means to say that yes, he does on occasion suck dick. If that's all he is show Jon with a one night stand on one page before he rushes for a new adventure and be done with it.
If we're going to have a romance, any kind of romance, be center stage in a character's life show me some goddamn chemistry.
If the unintentional homoerotic subtext of a Shounen manga written by someone who doesn't know how to write women does it better than you how about you don't waste everyone's fricking time?
Their worldview is
>Anyone that does not agree 100% with ME is evil wrong, and a bigot that SHOULD lose everything and be hated forever!
So in shirt they don't care/demand the entire demographic accept it and praise them for being bold and brave. No exceptions.
If anything they go in assuming this will bring in ten times more fans than before since all their followers on twitter tell them this is the best smartest decision ever.
Bitch, only pedos like little boy Jon.
If you want a straight Superman to market, Clark is always right there.
You think they care or even read the books? Of course not. They think they've WON just because they got a character changed and that's all they care about. Nobody who LIKES this kind of shit actually buys comics.
big 2 page rates are so shit that twitter likes and retweets literally have more value
The current creators genuinely want to destroy the comic book store and the current industry. They hate being beholden to a bunch of old straight white males running such stores. The comic shop owners hate the crap that the creators produce. It is a stand off. The creators have it in their heads that comics should be fully part of the indie book shop scene where they feel their ideas will go across much better to that kind of audience. They want some independent book store owner writing those hand written recommendations about their queer comics. Even though their books languish in such stores as compared to manga but the creators ignore that. I think these people think that there books selling a couple thousand copies, if that, in a book store would be some how more prestigious than selling them in the grubby comic book store. All this stuff is a kind of elitism by a group of people that genuinely hate the audience and industry. Most of these creators would rather be selling a screenplay or writing an actual novel but they don't have the skill or connections to do that. All they are seemingly good at is infiltrating and ruining specific pop culture they claim to be both fans of as well as being intellecual snobs who turn their noses up at such things because they think it is beneath them. Having a gay person in comics isn't revolutionary. Having the same onerous depictions of it is just tiresome at this point. Most of these people can't plot for the medium. So all we have is the gimmick of swapping some established character and the boring story of it complete with Bendis speak type dialogue and modern social media sensibilities.
I still believe people are planted in all these companies, getting orders from higher powers who are trying to intentionally sink everything so they can buy it up cheap
See I just think it is successive feedback loops playing in on themselves because of untested ideas that sounded good or noble but were dumb.
>Hey if more people do higher education then society will become more intelligent, right?
These people all have shit degrees because higher education became flooded by people which meant that instituitions became businesses aimed at quantity over quality. They think they are better than the material but they aren't. All they can endlessly do is dissect and shit out pop culture that is genuinely worse than stuff that came before because they don't understand it.
>Some smarmy guy on Twitter complains that Batman doesn't make a difference and just beats up poor people.
>This is more an issue of rolling continuity and never ending stories than it is of politics.
>Yet the dumb dumb doesn't understand this and thinks that it is a political issue and not an industry or creative issue.
>What does the modern industry do? Gives that person a job writing Batman to queer it or w/e.
Having attended small comic conventions with creators there is a general disconnect between the good journeyman writer or artist who likes the medium vs the social media liberal arts type who thinks they are better than it.
The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
>Bendis speak type dialogue
That is the worst part of all these comics. Endlessly dialogue that is boring and feels like it is written by an alien.
>Most of these creators would rather be selling a screenplay
it is so obvious when a comic is meant as netflix bait. IDW is plagued with these.
Are there any characters that happens to be gay, lesbian, bisexual, or what have you. That Cinemaphile doesn't have an issue with?
Does Deadpool count?
I suppose, but it is debated considering most of his interactions that were flirtatious towards men were meant to be taken as a joke.
Well, much of his MURDER is taken as a joke.
Check patch notes.
No. Just Japanese. Doujin by definition is small market. If there was a big market, a larger publisher would sell it, as more than one Doujin maker has made the leap. Mens gay and womens gay are largely gender segregated, as are mens lesbian and womens lesbian, based on the audience.
>Doujin by definition is small market.
Comiket famously is the largest fan convention in the world but it’s achtually it is teeny tiny and nobody pays attention to it .
Fan convention made up of hundreds of tiny publishers and self published. Anyone or any thing that's big enough gets wider distribution with a bigger publisher, and that includes porn.
I think you don't really understand the scale difference between Comiket and even a third tier Shueisha publication.
>farmers market is largest fan convention of farming
I thought Cinemaphile's issue with GM isn't that he's "bi" it's that he's edgy or some shit.
Think of it as a spectrum. There's plenty of LGBT characters that Cinemaphile is ok with, and some that you can call fan faves.
stupid b***h! You had to make eye holes in the mask!
Maybe if John actually got paired with a hot hunky beefcake and not this offensively stereotypical pink haired sissy twink I would have actually cared. I want to strangle that character every time I take a glance at him. Holy shit he looks so eye straining.
Although he appeared in only one book. I think Ash could've been a better love interest. While he's no beefcake, he does have a personality that bounced well in contrast to Jon's. Basically being a homme fatale. Hopefully he returns someday.
>I'd still act antagonistically if only I had more power.
>HURR OK I'LL PUT IN A GOOD WORD FOR YOU
That's just nepotism. You like him so you'll say a good thing about him even though he just got done saying he'd do it again with zero remorse if only he had a stronger weapon.
>they've now made the character completely unmarketable to the young male demographic he was originally created for
I mean they'd already done that by aging him up. The only thing interesting about Jon was his friendship with Damian. Even if he'd stayed straight as an arrow once he was just another late teen/early 20s member of the Supes family and there's already at least 2 of those wandering round not doing much.
The younger generation is more accepting and fine with gay people so you are wrong and just coping with your homophobia
nah they have been brainwashed at an early age homophobia is based
And yet they still refuse to read or watch anything with a gay male lead.
>out of touch boomer pretends to talk for all young people
I’m Gen Z, dude.
Oh so you’re even more of an out of touch loser.
you must live in the deepest bowels of a blue state shithole because where I live kids using homophobic slurs are still common. You just don't see it on social media due to heavy content moderation from zuckerberg and his affiliates
>homosexual calling anyone out of touch
he gets a lot of touch, that's how he spreads his STDs
>unmarketable to the young male demographic he was originally created for?
DC doesn't make books for teenage boys, it makes them for increasing middle-aged nerds with an unhealthy amount of sunk investment in their comics and no gf.
My question is why does every love interest have to be a meta too.
Because it allows them to be part of the story rather than someone who occasionally shows up for two seconds in the last page when the hero finally comes home and kisses them.
But I actually prefer that when written well. Plus Lois was constantly in old school Superman stories.
I like the downtime where everything didn't have to be a fight. Give me cuddles in front of the TV after a long day.
Lois only showed up in old stories because she was a snooping journalist who ended having to be constantly rescued when she got into trouble. So do you want everyone to be a journalist who has to get their bf/gf to save them when they’re in trouble, perpetuating damsel in distress trope? Even today Lois struggles occasionally to find something to do in stories because people want the spouse to be more in stories than just someone who you go home to and snuggle because it just makes the characters one dimensional
>But I actually prefer that when written well.
Well you got half of that with Tim Drake and Bernard Dowd.
Unironically, I do prefer Bernard to Jay. Why is Jay such a snowflake compared to Bernard?!
The art in Tim's book was ugly as hell but it was alright in writing.
Imagine how many times that pink boy has had to have his rectum seen back together in the ER. TELL THAT STORY, COWARDS!
I never cared about Jon. He was a boring as shit character as a kid and he's boring as shit as a gay. Cinemaphile's constant crying about him being gay is annoying as frick too. Get the frick over it you babies.
nah gays have to get over the fact real people don't worship the ground they walk like they are hoping for
do you seriously think young straight males read comics books, you old fart
They do realize it
And yet, somehow, women are still more likely to be poor, in debt, and have less retirement savings than men, even if they don't have children.
Women buy shit that they like. The vast majority don’t like comics and superheroes. No sci fi, fantasy or action adventure anything. They’re guy stuff and guys are very much still the primary consumers of such content. And that’ll never change, no matter what these companies do.
You’re right.
But the disparity in purchasing power is so great that a purely hypothetical female audience is more important to them than the actual male one.
Also I think of this is influenced by libraries which are a female run ecosystem, and there are so many more of them than comic book stores it has to a pronounced effect on the bottom line.
>the young male demographic he was originally created for
Oh, no! Now where will the pedos and shotagays go to read about dorky himbo and his twink just-a-friend?
Remember what they stole from us
Yes….remember
You know they don't care, OP, they already got what they wanted which is another name to toss onto the dartboard of "queer representation" and give it no further thought. It's the same with shows like Legend of Korra or She-Ra or Voltron, they legitimately give no shits about the quality of the work or the actual characters, they just care people know that there's more gays and lesbians in popular fiction and that "nobody else can have them now".
Absolutely based. Supersons fans should be drug out into the street and curb stomped like the garbage they are.
Big 2 writers live in some strange alternative dimension where they think people still want to buy American comics.
The reality is that men are all homophobic in a way women simply aren't
It absolutely does not matter how well written or how much gayness takes up of their character or anything else the moment moids find out they react *click* and *whirr* the moid will react immediately and reclassify you as the "other" and will proceed to virtue signal how much they see you as subhuman to other moid animals
I am not a troony but I truly honestly wish I was born a woman so I could check out of moid bullshit forever. I fricking hate all men including any moid who is reading this. Frick you
>I am not a troony but
Yes. Yes, you are. You may not want to chop your dick off, but you are absolutely a troonbrained.
I am sure it makes you feel better to call me a troony so you could write off everything I said but it does not change the facts. You deserve every piece of pain you experience in your life you fricking animal
Wishing you were born a woman IS being a tyranny moron
>Not a troony, but I wish I was a women
You do realize everything a woman has is afforded to them by a man, right? Through man-made laws that protect them from the divine intervention of natural law.
Don't wish to follow the whim of convention because that's always subject to change.
The natural law of "more working hands = more profit" means female rights are not going anywhere
Absolutely based for moids to invent technology which will forever BTFO them
So yeah if I could reroll my sex I would be XX female because any small disatvantages are nothing compared to the freedom from male bullshit
Not natural law + productivity crisis + YWBAW + You're just a man who's given up and is proud of it
Gave up? I never wanted to play your games nor do I care about your prizes and that's why you will never see me as human and I hate you for it
No Cinemaphile homophobe feels even one hundreth of hatred I feel for you moids
nah i hate you more homosexual
Dude, people are allowed to dislike things or people without wanting to destroy them. If you're going to cast a net so wide that it catches people who wish for your destruction alongside with people who just don't like you then that's a you problem.
If you don't like me for nothing but one of my fundamental qualities which make me human then the only difference between you and a literal nazi is the sense of scale
What kind of moid could even understand the sheer alienation and isolation I experience? The kind where you feel every person on the street is about to attack you. Fat and physically disfigured ones maybe but the rest are all animals. And even then fundamentally they can still be themselves, I can mold myself into a caricature of myself to fit in but I will never be free to be me, even a fat disabled moron is more free than I am
Simply put: you're not owed understanding. Given that you're not dead you're probably surrounded by plenty of not!Nazis and there's a high likelihood that most of them just don't care about you at all.
nah frick you homosexual
>am not a troony but
ywnbw troon
This twittergay and troony infested board should seriously just be purged from this site. Holy fricking shit.
nah Cinemaphile is worse
Ah yes a board that is typical for Cinemaphile is worst than this dilating shithole.
Yeah the board that is basically 5% talking about porn, 5% repeatedly posting about one gay sex scene in Last of Us, 50% is outright racism and misogyny and the last 40% in general is just being triggered and upset about the latest culture war topic because white straight men are so oppressed today when tv shows and movies have minorities.
What was the point of making him gay? Struggles? Lois and Clark embraced him immediately. Development? His character is still the same. Love story? They follow the cliche “hero in trouble, normie boyfriend saves him”. So what is the point? And is Jon gonna fade away just like Chris Ken, Jon Lane Kent, Cirl-El, Lara Kent, Hyperman, Kara Kent, Ariella Kent, and Superman Junior?
I'll give it 3 or 4 years before he joins the not-so-canon Super Childers club. He will frick off to join the legion of superheroes or live in some hut in Africa with his gay boytoy.
Jon, Otho and Osul are here to to stay.
They are Clark and Lois’s full family now.
Remember Chris Kent and Cirl-E? They used to be a big thing in the early 2000s, but now they are nowhere to be found and no one cares about them. Jon didn't get Damian’s popularity.
I care about them. Chris and Mia were way more fun than Jon and these twins.
Chris is Lor Zod again and back with his birth parents and hanging out with Sinestro’s Son.
Cir-El was always a Brainiac Trojan horse like Indigo.
That's just proof DC knows they fricked up by aging up Jon & making him gay. They destroyed the Super Sons goldmine they had & wanna recapture it.
The twins are either going to completely replace Jon or they'll all be forgotten in the next universal reset.
DC is going to reboot again to line up with the Gunnverse.
Exactly what I'm thinking.
They literally do it for brownie points & marketing to the nonexistent zoomer/30 pushing 40 market of prideful political activists.
They don't realize that, they live in a bubble
People shilling for companies in 2024
Those are real company shills anon. Not everyone here is a honest human being. And that goes for the majority of the internet. These people are hired specifically for threads like this to defend corporate choices not matter how asinine it is.
I don't doubt there are shills but it can't be this prevalent now, can it?
>it can't be this prevalent now, can it?
Definitely. It’s worse now than it’s ever been before. For media in general.
Shut up, shill
t. Shill
How can we be sure it's so?
Big corps and political campaigns explicitly include Cinemaphile strategies sometimes.. Some of their docs have leaked. This is going to get worse with AI posting.
The easiest to spot locally are BIG, SUPER AGGRESSIVE, PASSIONATE co movie fans that really don't have a very deep undestanding of the fandom of the movie property, and are super underweight as far as OC. These guys will very aggressively try to start fights, but then completely dissapear.
Why would you even want to encourage sodomy?
It's expensive attracting mates, it's expensive dealing with all the medical repurcussions, telling people to seek a life that will make them incontinent in their late 30's is psychotic.
>telling people to seek a life that will make them incontinent in their late 30's is psychotic.
Are you sure you're not talking about women and having children?
Women having children don't do that homosexual
Everything they do is out of spite.
they invented the idea of "toxic fandom" so the more hate they get that means the better person they are.
I say embrace it.
Start a new Super Sons comic with Jon and Damien.
Damien is 14 and mad that he’s short and that he has to put up with Jon’s gayisms.
Jon is 17, and tall and buff and has constant girls hitting on him, but he’s uncomfortable and wants to be with his boyfriend, and pisses the girls off.
Play it off like a great odd couple.
It would be like the original Super Sons, but more mature.
Which makes sense, because the original kid readers of that are 6 years older and in their mid teens.
If they had done it before they turned Jon into a gay pacifist with a Gary Stu bf, it could have just barely worked. Too late now. They're dramatically different characters.
>I can't read about characters that aren't like me
Yet you guys always complain about minorities and females being happy and reading about characters like them.
Except they aren't. This is clear by sales. Black Panther succeeded as a movie ONCE but the comics still aren't big sellers & never were despite being a black main character focused around black settings. Women also don't have any actual interest in reading comics about bland frumpy women going to coffee shops & complaining about men. They wanna see cute boys being hunky heroes & gay baiting through their close male friendships.
Print is a dying media.
Look at newspapers and magazines sales compared to what they were in 1993.
Comics is just another archaic commodity.
It’s not truncated enough, comes out monthly (not weekly), is too overpriced, and the art is not up to par compared to covers.
Opposed to manga, which is the opposite in every way.
>the people who queerify characters
live in a bubble of constant validation of their opinions and see themselves heroic and brave and can't comperhend that most of the rest of the world
NTA but characters should not be made retroactively gay I agree
Though I would like to see an oroginal gay character at least once. I think that Netflix Rayman show did it?
>I think that Netflix Rayman show did it?
It did, funny you named it as such. Since the main character of the show and it is named after him, Captain Laserhawk. But everyone seems to only know the show for Rayman and Bullfrog.
Why do you people care about this? Comics are a lost cause and will continue to be. Superman doesn’t even have a son in 99% of content outside of comics. The one show he does and they’re both straight. Just ignore it.
They don't believe in target demographics
You want to make an LGBT character to genuinely appeal to young males? Write about a couple of hot, fit, likable lesbians OR make your MC a bimbomaxxed dommy mommy muscle troony with DSLs with a younger (but above the age of 18) sidekick.
This is Cinemaphile by way of the UDON Street Fighter comics, in case anyone b***hes about "her".
>Never have Poison rob you of your anal virginity in a dark alley.
>Never have Poison rob you of your anal virginity in a dark alley.
I know you're joking but it kind of proves my point. Would you buy a comic with a well told story that happened to star a character like that? Especially if there was a competent male character you could ship her with and self-insert as?
Yes, I'd read the adventures of Poison
as long as they didn't make her some kind of "representation" woke bullshit
>I'd read the adventures of Poison
I would, but only if she is still pre-op (i.e. Japanese version)
>as long as they didn't make her some kind of "representation" woke bullshit
>See them turn her into a saint, swap her attire for something more modest, and other changes to "fix" her
Sad that I can see that happening
>but only if she is still pre-op
Well, OBVIOUSLY!
>>he thinks I'm joking
>no massive bulge
Fake and gay, might as well be a real woman
The obscene lack of fanfiction, fanart and porn featuring Jay Nakamura speaks volumes about how hard he fricking flopped as a character.
Him being gay is just a symptom of how much of a wet noodle he is compared to Super Dad. He's the worst kind of gay, and even some of his writers have picked up on how demure and uncharismatic Superkid is to the point it was the plot of the last major crisis event. I'll admit I was never really hooked on the stories that were about Lois and Clark doing romantic stuff, and part of what makes Jon unappealing to me is how much it focuses on a relationship that I care even less about. Your audience didn't come here for smooches, they came here to see a super man figure out how to lift up an oil tanker without it collapsing under its own weight.
Contrast with either company's version of Hercules who is gay at times, but can also be not gay when the situation calls for it. Much more dynamic, and able to appeal to any male.
A new writer just has to put Jon through a hero’s journey Monomyth type of story. That’s all. He can stay bi.
Heterosexual comic readers, black, white, or brown, don't want to read about the adventures of t a man with a boyfriend.
Speak for yourself.
My problem is not with Jon himself, but rather who they paired him with.
That's a fair bit of criticism and I agree, Jay has been a rather milquetoast love interest. I think Ash has far more potential.
Young men dont read superhero comics anyways, if anything they read popular independent authors like garth ennis or robert kirkman, only boomers read capeshit and only geriatrics read superman
Gay characters are useless as a marketing strategy because they don't need to be gay to be fujo-bait. Just look at Dick and Jason, never canonically queer but fujos still write piles of fanfiction about the two fricking eachother. I'm not against gay characters, I pack fudge myself, but if modern comic book writers can't handle writing good capeshit I don't trust them to write good gay shit.