Are there any hard numbers for the forces of each side in the Gryps Conflict?
We see lots of mobile suits, but a very small number of ships throughout Zeta's run. The AEUG has the Argama and the Radish and at most ten Salamis class ships? The Titans have the Dogosse Gier and the Alexandria, and at least two Garudas. In one episode we see that the EFSF has one single ship deployed to guard a Side composed of like 50 colony cylinders. In the final battle the Titans had to borrow a handful of old Musais from the Republic of Zeon to augment their forces.
I get that there was downsizing after the OYW, and then a large part of the EFSF fleet destroyed in 0083, but this seems ridiculous? I get the EFSF shifted from making ships to focusing on mobile suit strenght instead, but even so, those MS need to be ferried from place to place. This isn't a story of two armies, but rather a band of covert rebels fighting against the state's secret police, and there are times when that's conveyed well, and other times when it's not. We see dozens of old MS defending Jaburo, and when Haman appears for the first time she has 20something Gaza-Cs with her, and we've never see such a huge force on-screen. On the oher hand the Argama team seems to destroy five Hizacks every episode while Jerid gets away.
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don't ask questions just consume product and get excited for next product.
But anon the product I'm excited about is from 1986.
Ignore him, /misc/ Brainwashed him into hating media in general
I'm bumping this solely to spite your moron ass
is there really no colors for aeug hizacks
it seems incredibly convenient the feddie aeug converts only fielded gm iis
Gundam Vs Zeta Gundam has alternate color schemes for all AEUG, Titans, etc. mobile suits.
A lot of them aren't very good, but at the very least it's nice they exist.
There's something really wrong in a Zaku with a Gundam's colors...
How about in GM colors? Hizacks are really more of a black sheep of the GM line than a Zaku, t.b.h.
Like I said, not a lot of them are very good. Anyways, here's another alternate AEUG Hizack. The one I posted before was a Titans Hizack in AEUG colors, but this one is an EFF Hizack in AEUG colors. Not exactly sure why they needed to create an second color scheme for what is literally the same machine, but whatever I guess.
Quattro’s Hizack
I wouldn't field the Hizack either. There's all sorts of GM family parts I can slap on a refurbished GM II, and there isn't really a performance gap between it and the Hizack. Plus, if I'm running a spacenoid rebellion against an organization whose mandate comes from neutralizing Zeonism, I'm not going to have my guys raiding bases in Zakus.
>There's all sorts of GM family parts I can slap on a refurbished GM II
those never got used, though. if the gm ii actually had access to the gm family upgrades from the OYW it probably would've had a way better performance in the gryps conflict
the only official gm ii variant seen in-animation is the gm ii semi-striker, and they obviously couldn't even do a full conversion since it's based off a type c variant rather than a standard gm variant
>AEUG Hizacks
If they were worth it, it might have been regularly fielded. However, it is barely comparable to the GM II plus you already see how the Hizacks literally get left behind by the titans for Marasais and Barzams. Blex was smart not to use them and stick with GMIIs, Rick Dias, Nemos. Also, if you do steal a Hizack as AEUG, it is basically just the green color. Nothing special
keep in mind also that ship design has changed significantly since the beginning of the OYW, focusing more on carrying MS. The white base had 2 MS catapults and was probably intended to carry something along the lines of 6-10 MS judging from layouts and dioramas used for the hangers but maybe as low as 3-4. The Dogosse Gier on the other hand has 12 MS catapults, so even if you assume that there are only 2 MS per catapult, that's still 24 MS total and at the high end of 5 per catapult that's 60 MS. Additionally if you look at aircraft carriers which are probably the closest in use to something like the Dogosse Gier, the US's Nimitz class aircraft carriers have 4 catapults and typically 64 aircraft according to Wikipedia meaning roughly 16 aircraft per catapult. Applying these numbers to the Dogosse Gier would give roughly 192 MS.
Basically even though it seems like the Titans have way more MS than usual for a smaller force, it's well withing the realm of possibility for something like the Dogosse Gier to carry most of them.
You'll only find that kind of info on neckbeard autist forums, so get reading:
https://www.mechatalk.net/viewtopic.php?p=98520&sid=0f20e7af29928d73e297d2e9e5f7efb3#p98520
>Titans: Very much a skeleton crew at first. As already noted here, when Zeta Gundam begins, the Titan fleet consists mainly of Alexandria-class cruisers which borrow regular Federation Forces units for major missions. As of episode 24 the entire Federation Forces are placed at their disposal, and despite Char's famous Dakar speech the Federation continues its support up until Jamitov's death in episode 46. (In other words, Char's speech doesn't actually change anything, so I can see why it was cut from the movies.)
>According to the January 1986 issue of Newtype magazine, the Titan fleet amounts to roughly 100 warships during the final episodes of Zeta, presumably including regular Federation Forces and their allies from the Republic of Zeon. A big chunk of this fleet is lost when the Gate of Zedan is destroyed, and more ships are lost when the Axis forces capture the Colony Laser and so forth. The onscreen displays at the end of the TV series and movies indicate that only twenty or so ships participate in the final battle.
>AEUG: According to the old Rapport Deluxe book, the entire AEUG fleet consists of about 30 ships, including five Irish-class battleships and about 25 Salamis cruisers. Nine ships participate in the orbital attack on Jaburo. The movies indicate that some 18 AEUG ships participate in Operation Maelstrom, and the onscreen displays at the end of the TV series show that about 15 are left as the final battle begins.
https://mechatalk.net/viewtopic.php?t=17284
>Short answer:
>-About 100 at its peak strength, right before the destruction of the Gate of Zedan.
>-60 or less after the destruction of the Gate of Zedan.
>-18-22 as per the Argama's tactical display during the final battle (18 TV version, 22 movie version).*
>AEUG: According to the old Rapport Deluxe book, the entire AEUG fleet consists of about 30 ships, including five Irish-class battleships and about 25 Salamis cruisers.
I didn't get this impression AT ALL from watching the anime. Not even the movie version added in that many ships. The way they treat the Radish it feels like a total one-off rather than a class of ship.
Bear in mind:
Pretty much everyone in Londo Bell is an AEUG veteran.
The reintegration was anything but. AEUG basically just put the uniform back on and pretended to be part of the same force but their loyalties are to Londenion and Bright, not Earth.
So in short, Londo bell is the titans done right but this time made up of former AEUG veterans and other sensible members of the earth federation
More or less, with one key difference.
Londo Bell is the last force left. The EFSF has other formations, the Neo Zeon remnants are still around, but Londenion is now the top dog, the guys everyone else hesitates to oppose.
At the end of Unicorn, Bright says that if the EF uses Gryps II, he'll be Earth's enemy forever.
This is not an idle threat. He could be the next Zabi with a word, all of Side 1 supports him. And this time, there is nobody left to fight for Earth that could possibly match Londo Bell in a standup fight.
So that puts it into context how strong the AEUG was in relation to the Titans and the rest of Federation.
It’s funny that the federation put londo bell on a leash but they already alone are already stronger regardless, the federation was still using some GM II’s lying around
>Londo Bell is the last force left
That's what gets me about just how the Federation downsized after the OYW. In ZZ you get the impression that the Argama is literally the only ship left standing to fight all of Neo Zeon until the last episode. Then in CCA you just have the small special force of Londo Bell fighting against Char's forces, which are also small, but has already dropped one asteroid and is going to drop another. You'd think they'd throw everything at it, but apparently Londo Bell is really all there is.
But the rest of the Federation forces arrive when Axis is about to be dropped. The Federation has more soldiers, they just rather send Londo Bell first.
>You'd think they'd throw everything at it, but apparently Londo Bell is really all there is.
Didn't they explain that they were busy on other colonies to keep them in check during Char's chimpout? Londo Bell was always a much smaller force than the regular Federation military, they just see more action because they're the ones more active in hunting down insurrectionist elements.
>You’d think they throw everything they had at it
Did you not see in CCA or in Bela’s children, that the main fleet gets duped thinking Char was going to disembark at Luna II? They literally show up towards the end because they goofed.
>Londo Bell is all they have
No. Amuro & Bright literally figure out that Char was using dummies and head straight towards Axis.
The Federation is still large, it just always plays a back role to the central cast. Hence why I wished they made a more realistic representation in their media.
>Londo Bell is the last force left. The EFSF has other formations, the Neo Zeon remnants are still around, but Londenion is now the top dog, the guys everyone else hesitates to oppose.
>apparently Londo Bell is really all there is.
Guys, we had it wrong all this time. After the OYW, the EFSF is not just fricking tiny: for some reason, it never expanded despite the security threats. That's the reason why Haman, Char, Cosmo Babylonia and Zanscare could do their respective revolts.
Unicorn is fanfiction
Don't fricking start.
No. It's relevant because that depiction is contradictory to Tomino canon. Bright doesn't want the job after CCA and he was kept there by the EF as he had been expressed in the Hathaway's Flash novel. He entertained the idea of opening a restaurant or running for politician after retiring. That's where the alternative ending came from in Gihren's Greed. He is not some TSA of UC in your imagination ready to go FOh Hell No" in the Ef
>Bright doesn't want the job after CCA
He doesn't want the job in CCA itself. It was Char's nonsense who forced his hand.
>TSA
A what, again?
>ready to go FOh Hell No" in the Ef
Bright had been fighting against autocrats of all sorts throughout his career. If the Federation had degenerated into the Titans once again, you think he would've just gone "not my problem, I'm retired"? Although he was never the ideologue sort of type like Deikun or the Ronah family, he's the sort of charismatic leader that can recruit people to fight alongside him. Why else do you think Anaheim put him in command of the Argama?
>He doesn't want the job in CCA itself
He founded Londo Bell with Amuro
>A what, again?
Three ship alliance in CE. Unicorn is unironcially the SEED of UC
>"not my problem, I'm retired"
That's exactly what happened with manhunters after Hathaway. He was presumably so burnt out he did not show up in late UC at all in any role
>He founded Londo Bell with Amuro
And, if you watch CCA, it's obvious that neither of them really want to be there.
>Unicorn is unironcially the SEED of UC
Yes, I am aware of the similarities. Would the comparison make Bright the Lacus in this thing?
>He was presumably so burnt out he did not show up in late UC at all in any role
The Manhunters and Mafty's Rebellion were a minor affair compared to what came before.
You're smoking dope.
>the federation was still using some GM II’s lying around
No, the federation had adopted GM IIIs as mainstays by UC0093. Unicorn is just moronic but it still hand waved Torrington away as a backwater base used to pile old equipment. There's a reason with the 88th Fleet in CCA is called the 88th Fleet, take a guess. The federation was inactive because of poor leadership deciding not to use its resources, not because of a lack of firepower. CCA itself makes reference to multiple fleets stationed around the Sides. Side 1's forces were said not to be willing to support Londo Bell because some colonies might rebel, and fleets from Side 2 and 5 were said to be moving towards Axis right before the final battle and we see two fleets deploying, one with Jegans on sleds from near the moon and the 88th fleet with GM IIIs who show up just in time for Axis Shock.
>There's a reason with the 88th Fleet in CCA is called the 88th Fleet, take a guess.
Military units usually have arbitrary numbers, so I wouldn't go for that as proof.
That's the intent. That's also why Londo Bell has more restrictions. They don't want another Titans 2.0. They want what the Titans were meant to be.
>sensible members of the EF
So it’s not out do the question to assume that former vets like Yuu Kajima, The White Dingo Team, and maybe even Kou is a part of this?
Yuu Kajima was at Axis in a Jegan but I don't remember if they confirmed what force he was part of. I haven't read it, but I know the rebellion manga has been filling in a lot of info for what side characters were doing in 0083 and shortly after so I'm not sure if there is some indication of what the White Dingo team did after the OYW. I was under the impression at the end of 0083 that Kou would either quit the military or not go anywhere in it due to politics, so I'm not sure if he'd end up in an elite force like Londo bell.
That's why they said "according to [whatever] book". There are usually never that many ships together at the same time, let alone on the screen. The only times the AEUG probably ever gathered up their forces together would have been for the Jaburo drop operation or the final battles near the end of the show.
I love the white and navy feddie colours
Boy it must have been awkward when the Federation kicked the Titans out and somebody friendly fired a Hizack on accident because four of those paintjobs look the same