Are they changing her too much? I don't remember Chani being a warrior-revolutionary or being opposed to Paul at any point in the book.
On the other hand I'm aware that the trailer is not the movie and may contain lines that will be not in the movie, and that Villeneuve did an excellent, faithful job with part 1. In any case I'm trying not to get my hopes too high up.
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It's 2023, a woman can't be motivated by altruism or loyalty to a man, she can only girlboss her way to the top for her own sake.
>described in the book multiple times as having elf-like features
>played by an ogre in the movie
by an ogre in the movie
By American standards she is a 20/10.
No one thinks that except other goblinos.
>No one thinks that except other goblinos.
Like that anon said, Americans.
You think those are Americans? They're not even human. Or, perhaps I am no longer an American. Depending on how things go that might be true./
>You think those are Americans?
I don't think, I know.
Unless you are also American, you don't.
you guys are both mentally ill
America derangement syndrome on Cinemaphile might actually rival trump derangement syndrome
Elves aren't real and ogres aren't real.
>I’m just pretending to be autistic
neither is a snowman, but if i shit in your yard and made you lick it up, you could tell the difference.
She is beautiful in america, like a goddess.
>elven features
Every time I read that I pictured Zandaya and had a sensible chuckle to myself
>redhead character played by mulatto
They can't keep getting away with it!
sorry but the irish catholics pissed off israeli pornographers in the 1960s and now they must forever pay the price.
Zendaya literally looks like Dante Basco and Pat Smear. I cannot believe Hollyweird really thinks she's movie star material. FFS, she cannot even act.
she's unoffensively bland, which is perfect for the female audience
Looks match for rat faced twink in fairness.
Boomer SciFi is replete with self-serious puerile garbage. Herbert embracing the camp is refreshing in context.
It's very bare bones, and the visionary sequences leave everything to be desired. Doesn't bode well for part 2.
>anti-colonial piece
Environment & tech-progressivism & cyclical history, all more significant. Not like the Fremen go on and do it themselves in revenge, just because they can or anything.
She literally dedicates her life to Paul. This is typical woke homosexualry KEK
Now I don't mind because Zendaya is hideous. Who the frick would want La Creatura being clingy to them?
>women dedicating their lives to men is woke homosexualry
We see you.
Reading comprehension is a weak point of yours?
it's just weird that they hype her up because book chani doesn't have any skills
I'm sure it'll be fine
She literally fights and kills people who want to challenge Paul as a warning to others.
>you can challenge him, but first you have to kill me, and if you die by a chick that's embarrassing for your family
She's not a useless chick, no Fremen are.
She is literally like the second best fighter in the universe behind paul
IIRC she saves Paul's life by killing an assassin at one point
She kills a Fremen challenger because she doesn't want to waste his time and to discourage future challenges since getting killed by Paul's frick buddy would be embarrassing.
The part of the book he's adapting is only the last third and could faithfully cover everything in 90 minutes or so, instead the movie is 3 hours and 15 minutes. He's obviously going to be adding a bunch of new shit to the story.
I think it's a bit more than a third, and the first movie is 2h35m, and it cut out a good chunk of stuff. So theoretically he could make use of 3 hours for faithful adaptation, especially if he takes the "slow" approach he did with the first. But having said all that, based on the trailer it seems like he and his co-writer will be adding quite a bit...
>I think it's a bit more than a third
It's really not. Dune is split into 3 "books", the first movie ends basically at the end of the 2nd book so all that's left to adapt is the last third.
No, the first film didn't adapt the first visit to the sietch/water of life ritual and Geidi Prime parts of the second book which are quite long. The third book also has more warfare that is "offscreened". You don't need to made up any shit to make a 3 or even 4 hour long film. But we're talking about Hackneuve. He'll either skip or misadapt the good parts in favour of completely unnecessary OC bullshit just like he did in his first flick
Admittedly it's been a while since I read the novel but was there anything on Geidi Prime that needed to be adapted before the third book? I figured with this movie he'd start with the Gladiator fight with Feyd at the beginning then adapt from the time jump on. He'll probably do what Lynch did and save the water of life ritual until later in the story since he already took so much from his adaptation.
The water ritual after Jamis is killed happens around page 515 of my edition, which ends on page 795. 515 / 795 = 64.7%. So yeah, I guess it is about 1/3. But there were some Feyd-Rautha/Baron stuff I think from before that they'll probably have to cover.
They didnt cover any of Thufir's stuff in the first movie. Him thinking Jessica was the spy for most of the book was hilarious
The whole "rooting out the spy" subplot is almost entirely conveyed through the characters' inner thoughts, which is impossible to adapt into a visual medium. It's also kind of superfluous because we know Dr. Yueh is a traitor before we even meet him
Honestly that particular subplot is not really that important.
It's mostly to show that people like Hawat are essentially property and can be transferred from owner to owner as a prize.
It just fleshes out further how things operate in the setting with the House/court intrigue.
>how things operate in the setting with the House/court intrigue.
not the other guy, but this is why Dune is better suited to a tv series rather than a movie. It's pretty much impossible to cover all of Dune's ideas, build the worlds and show how they work, and illustrate the plot in a short time unless you slash and burn your way through most of it like Dunc did
It's absolutely possible to retain the whodunit plot, but you need lots of time to develop the characters and their relationships to each other...like a good tv series would
That's my main problem with this movie. It does not establish itself as taking place tens of thousands of years in the future and instead it looks like it's 200 years ahead of us at best.
as a movie divorced from the book, I think the biggest problem is the thin characterization
as an adaptation I think the biggest problem is the non-engagement with major themes and the paucity of symbolism, a la
That's on purpose, we technologically regressed because of wars with AI.
>wars with AI
Brian/KJA shit therefore noncanon
Butlerian Jihand came from Frank Herbert.
The Butlerian Jihad as a name came from Herbert, yes, and it's implied through his writings that someone issued a fatwa against thinking machines and waged war against the humans who used them in order to prevent their creation. Frank never was that interested in what the Jihad actually was, it was just a plot device to explain why his scifi setting had no computers and no robots
the idea that it was a terminator war against skynet is a Brian/KJA idea because they are hacks
>Jihads create armies. The Butlerian Jihad tried to rid our universe of machines which simulate the mind of man. The Butlerians left armies in their wake and the lxians still make questionable devices . . . for which I thank them.
So you think there were wars fought by men and they had access to thinking machines at the time. And the thinking machines were not involved in the war at all?
That line of thought doesn't work.
that still doesn't suggest the Jihad was a war of humanity vs. skynet or that Herbert ever intended you to really think about t he Jihad
What about the old art from the 80s used in the 84 film? Herbert was heavily involved in the film.
It comes up over and over in the Herbert books, he just never wrote a book about it
>The whole "rooting out the spy" subplot is almost entirely conveyed through the characters' inner thoughts, which is impossible to adapt into a visual medium
god I would kill for Lynch style inner monologue. it was so fricking good
You're insane
I am so sick of seeing Zendaya man
>Villeneuve did an excellent, faithful job with part 1
Not sure if bait or brain damage
A possible case of people who have not read the book but only know of surface elements like the space knifefight gimmick and wikipedia summary of the plot.
This. No other reason. Dune has reached mid-wit core now, sadly, and this is to be expected. He probably extrapolated that opinion from some reviewtroon on youtube.
>le you are so dumb this just be bait
>no I will not articulate I’m just here to get my emotions out
I've read the book. No it wasn't the exact same, especially the part with Jamis, and with a few (important) parts that were omitted. I'd say it was 85% faithful in plot and 95% faithful in spirit and yes I'd say it was excellent.
Then brain damage it is
I'm open to discussion. I'm not set in my ways. Do you have an opinion you're willing to share?
Mine isn't an opinion, it's just a fact. If you want me to explain how basically every part of the movie shits all over the source material, that would become at least 6 hour long Mauler-style analysis
Do it anon. Make a 6 hour analysis. I’d watch it.
NTA but that would represent months of work to do it to a high level of polish, and if he were to write it alone, edit the footage alone, record it alone, etc., it would be an insane task.
I'd love to see it made too, but it's a damned tall order
>NTA
No, you're the butthole, butthole. YTA.
I meant it as 'not that anon,' bro. The reflexive hostility here is sad
>I meant it as 'not that anon,'
newbie summergay stupidgay idiotgay cluelessgay
>talk into camera for 6 hours
>take an hour or so to get it compressed and uploaded to YouTube
Months? Nah.
I said 'to a high level of polish.' Sure, a disorganized, unedited rant could be done very quickly, but a critical teardown that is written well, spoken well, arranged well, sources and incorporates footage from the film and quotes from the book well, details the references and influences that formed the books and whose prose, phrasing, and vocabulary Herbert often borrowed...yes, months of work.
Please commission or otherwise obtain and include some concept art for what a better adaptation might have featured. One of Dunc's many shortcomings is that it is visually very bland.
Give me two or three observations that will give me something to think about. How does Paul's character in the movie shit on Paul from the book?
He's a wimp in the movie, plagued by uncertainty and lack of motivation. He could never become Muad'dib. Take his conversation with Leto from the movie where he goes "boo hoo I don't know if I want to be a leader" and compare it to the same conversation in the book where he demonstrates such deep political insight, that makes his father proud, then he learns that he's been trained as mentat since birth and confidentely accepts to become a mentat Duke. Throughout the whole book he acts as the inborn leader he was bread to be for 90 generations. Confident, strong, sometimes stern. That's not something Chalagay under the direction of Cuckneuve could possibly pull off
In the book he does express resentment at his mother for training him to be that way. It happens near the end of part 2. He actually considers her his "enemy". He also doesn't confidently accept that he's a mentat. It's a scene several pages long where he is mostly dissociated from himself, imagining potential timelines, and otherwise in grief. There is angst and resentment in the book it's just not as obvious as looking at an actor's face.
In the movie he is not plagued by uncertainty and lack of motivation. He sees through the bullshit that's been laid out for him and questions the value of it. He is extremely competent. Consider the scene where he pilots the ornithopter through the storm, or any of the parts where he and his mother are traveling through the desert.
>In the book he does express resentment at his mother for training him to be that way
The only resentment he had is concerned with the "terrible purpose", being a tool of BG conspiracy and the unavoidable jihad. It has nothing to do with the unwillingness to take the mantle of a leader. In fact he tries to solve all of his problems through authority and leadership
>He actually considers her his "enemy".
No he doesn't. He calls her a BG witch after his first revelation, but later on he says that his mother doesn't have any friends among BG
>He also doesn't confidently accept that he's a mentat. It's a scene several pages long where he is mostly dissociated from himself, imagining potential timelines, and otherwise in grief.
I was talking about his conversation with Leto from the begging. He accepts being a mentat Duke literally in a span of a few seconds
>There is angst and resentment in the book it's just not as obvious as looking at an actor's face.
See first reply
>He is extremely competent. Consider the scene where he pilots the ornithopter through the storm
Holy shit he bypassed the compressor. That will make him a great emperor of the universe
>or any of the parts where he and his mother are traveling through the desert
I forgot what was even happening in those scenes exept for the sexual tension
>>He actually considers her his "enemy".
>No he doesn't.
Chapter 34, page 519 in the Kindle edition:
>Paul sat silently in the darkness, a single stark thought dominating his awareness: My mother is my enemy. She does not know it, but she is. She is bringing the jihad. She bore me; she trained me. She is my enemy.
If you're saying Paul is plagued with uncertainty, please cite at least one example. He is competent in every situation.
As I said he does consider her a willing part of the conspiracy initially. He changes his opinion later
>If you're saying Paul is plagued with uncertainty, please cite at least one example
Already provided. Try to read a full string of discussion before engaging in it
You're a scholar and a gentleman
>He's a wimp in the movie, plagued by uncertainty and lack of motivation
Sounds like the movie Aragorn syndrome.
>Take his conversation with Leto from the movie where he goes "boo hoo I don't know if I want to be a leader"
He literally uses the word "dad" when talking to Leto, like hes some chill, gen X guy in California. Who the hell is writing this?! Why don't we have Leto call him "sport" or "champ" while we're at it?
>He's a wimp in the movie,
I knew he was going to be a wimp in the movie when they deleted the Arraken dinner when Paul replaces his father at the head of the table and handle the guests like a boss.
Not him but by this point in the book he knows he has harkonen lineage through his prescience and knows the invasion was a setup by the emperor. The movie has only set the baron as the big bad and barely mentioned the emperor beyond the caladan scenes.
>95% faithful in spirit
You don't understand the book at all.
Detail the major themes of the book and some of its historical and literary references.
Detail also the major divergences the film has from the book with the characterizations of Thufir Hawat, Gurney Halleck, Pardot Kynes, and Baron Harkonnen.
>your non-response will be taken as the concession that it obviously is.
Historical references:
Alexander the great, T. E. Lawrence, Soviet involvement in middle east especially Egypt, Bedouin tribes, Fall of Rome, etc. Spice ~ oil obviously
Although I think these historical references/parallels have little to do with the literary power of the book. It's mostly for Redditors to say "LOOK HOW RELEVANT IT IS"
>Literary references?
Idk. Don't tell me you're part of the embarrassing "dune is the anti-Foundation" camp.
Major themes are the manipulative power of religion, the power of human specialization and how the environment influences it, ecology, political scheming, coming of age. The first movie chose to focus on coming of age and the relationships between Leto, Jessica and Paul. Those other themes are there but not as prominent.
>Thufir
Thufir is snubbed in the movie. But in the parts he does appear, he doesn't seem all that different. How is he?
>Gurney
He's a warrior poet, practical and capable. He's a bit more jovial in the books, but overall he's pretty close. I agree he should have brought out the baliset at some point.
>Kynes
Book-version didn't leave a big impression on me. Major points about having plans to terraform arrakis and being somewhat apprehensive about Paul are intact in the movie though.
>Harkonnen
Changed to be less talkative. Don't worry, he's still probably a pedophile (look at those child servants) and he's still pretty expressive (consider his face right before Leto tries to kill him). I think making him less talkative is a fair artistic change and is within the 85 to 95% faithfulness I allowed for.
wholly missing is the topic of addiction/temptation and the certain kinds of necessities they cause. wholly missing are the biblical and quranic references; Gurney in particular spouts them all the time in the book, and he similarly has no association with music in the film as he does in the book. wholly missing is the concept of planets and human activity as colony organisms, as interlinking systems that behave in certain predictable ways as a result of that organization. almost wholly missing is wealth, money, and the uses of money, except for two small instances in the film; one where Leto asks Hawat about costs, and another with the palm trees.
Hawat doesn't really exist as a character in the film (he's just a plot device), and the entire whodunit plot is gone.
Caladan is supposed to be a paradise in the book as a contrast to Arrakis; we get no sense of this. Kynes was inexplicably split into two characters in the film, one of which being a black woman, when he's supposed to be symbolic of Western Man, evocative of the British Arab explorers (like Lawrence, Thesiger, Glubb), and what Herbert viewed as the Western conceit: that power solves all problems, including the problem of our own ignorance. The forced-"inclusion" recasting of Kynes is an own-goal manifestation of this ignorance. Kynes's death in the film is entirely different, entirely worse, and again avoids a major theme of the book, which is planets acting as systems. There is an intentional horror in Kynes's book death, that he understands the processes happening around him but cannot stop them, which is mirrored by Paul's prescience awakening him to the fact that the horror of his own future, and that of the Imperium, is a process happening around him that he cannot stop.
Harkonnen is a political schemer first, even before he is a man of disgusting appetites and habits. We do not get to see the way he thinks about, uses, manipulates his own subordinates.
charlimit so frick it
tl;dr
kys
>wholly missing is the concept of planets and human activity as colony organisms, as interlinking systems that behave in certain predictable ways as a result of that organization.
I didn't get this from the book. Maybe that's in the sequels.
>addiction temptation
I suspect that will come in part two.
>whodunit plot
Fair, fair indeed.
>Wealth, money
I think that, along with the idea of scarcity of resources, is very obvious and inherent to the plot. It's well represented.
>Gurney
He does read from his little book before arriving on Arrakis. There are probably some other lines I'm forgetting, but perhaps not
>Caladan is supposed to be a paradise ... we get no sense of this
I think we do. Are you forgetting those montage sequences on Caladan? Paul putting his hand in the water, grabbing the sand, and then later grabbing the sand of Arrakis? (For him it's not such a bad change actually)
>Kynes being a symbol of Western man
I don't know if that's a universally agreed upon interpretation... Interesting point though. I agree the death is less powerful in the movie, but I'm also not sure that kind of scene would work well in film. At least in this film. I think it would take too much time, requiring more preparatory scenes with Kynes as well to set it up. I'm not sure though. In general I'm not that bothered by the casting of Duncan-Brewster because I thought her acting was good and her character reasonably well written.
>Harkonnen, we do not get to see the way he thinks about, uses, manipulates his own subordinates
We do see the fear of de vries when he talks to the Baron. But I also think most of this happens in what will be part 2? All the stuff with Thufir, with Feyd, with Rabban.
>I didn't get this from the book
It's there from basically the very beginning.
>Paul shrugged. “Then she said a good ruler has to learn his world’s language, that it’s different for every world. And I thought she meant they didn’t speak Galach on Arrakis, but she said that wasn’t it at all. She said she meant the language of the rocks and growing things, the language you don’t hear just with your ears. And I said that’s what Dr. Yueh calls the Mystery of Life.”
>Hawat chuckled. “How’d that sit with her?”
>“I think she got mad. She said the mystery of life isn’t a problem to solve, but a reality to experience. So I quoted the First Law of Mentat at her: ‘A process cannot be understood by stopping it. Understanding must move with the flow of the process, must join it and flow with it.’ That seemed to satisfy her.”
There are other examples, one of the trenchant ones being
>“It’s a rule of ecology,” Kynes said, “that the young Master appears to understand quite well. The struggle between life elements is the struggle for the free energy of a system. Blood’s an efficient energy source.”
Yes, we see Gurney look at the book momentarily, which is presumably written in Galach, so the audience can only infer what it is. Meanwhile in the book, Gurney quotes Revelation, Exodus, and Job extensively, and there are many, many other references: Thufir quotes Shakespeare's Othello, for example -- and Herbert himself stated that he read over 200 books in prep for writing Dune, which is borne out by my research.
>Paul putting his hand in the water...grabbing the sand
Yes, I know. It was a good visual parallel; the Baron having an oil bath was also excellent; I don't hate the movie as a movie, but it's a shit adaptation. Caladan doesn't look like a paradise. We see cliffs, waves, and a graveyard, and none of it is very colorful. We don't get a sense that the Atreides have ruled there from their castle for 26 generations. charlimit
>She said the mystery of life isn’t a problem to solve, but a reality to experience. So I quoted the First Law of Mentat at her: ‘A process cannot be understood by stopping it. Understanding must move with the flow of the process, must join it and flow with it.’ That seemed to satisfy her.”
Well this stuff is actually in the movie. I believe Jamis says it in a vision of Paul's.
>Gurney's quoting the Bible, and more
That's a good point. I think he is still a warrior-poet in the film, but much watered down. I don't know if the film mentions the OC bible at all — maybe?
>we don't get a sense that the Atreides have ruled there from their castle for 26 generations
Well, the castle looks pretty ancient. For example the room where his humanity is tested. And there's all the statues and stuff from his grandfather. Idk it looks pretty idyllic to me. It is definitely a Villeneuve aesthetic (see Arrival)
>Kynes being a symbol of Western man
>I don't know if that's a universally agreed upon interpretation
Doesn't need to be, Herbert said it himself in an interview that the filmmakers clearly didn't even bother to listen to.
>wealth
go reread chapter 2 of the book, and many, many others. Hell, ctrl-f 'wealth', 'money', and 'cost' in the book.
>Baron Harkonnen, subordinates, addiction
again, reread chapter 2 and 26
Alright just did. Yeah I agree with you, but with a book as dense as Dune, you can't cover every theme in an adaptation. There are at least 10 important themes that deserve to be covered. Part one convincingly covers an important few. I think we will see more in part 2.
Now someone respond to the first paragraph of the OP please.
>much? I don't remember Chani being a warrior-revolutionary or being opposed to Paul at any point in the book.
Hi.
Are you happy now?
Appropriately long, read it all. Good post.
kys
cheers m8. it's a long way off, but eventually I will produce a heavily annotated Dune 1-4; look forward to it
You seem alright. Would watch dune with / 10. Hit me up if you're ever in Pennsylvania.
Good post. READ THE BOOK Black folk
>Kynes was inexplicably split into two characters in the film, one of which being a black woman, when he's supposed to be symbolic of Western Man, evocative of the British Arab explorers (like Lawrence, Thesiger, Glubb), and what Herbert viewed as the Western conceit: that power solves all problems, including the problem of our own ignorance. The forced-"inclusion" recasting of Kynes is an own-goal manifestation of this ignorance. Kynes's death in the film is entirely different, entirely worse, and again avoids a major theme of the book, which is planets acting as systems.
Yeah I hated Kynes in this, the death scene in particular. In the book nature kills him as he is walking through the desert, half delirious from dehydration, in the movie she perfectly controls nature and martyrs herself. The whole hubris of western man thing is completely lost, instead it gets turned into a boring noble savage trope.
Midwit takes from beginning to end.
Argue against any of them, I’m still here
Anyone who gets taken by the desert setting of Dune and starts equating Fremen with Arabs is a certified mitwit. """""Smart""""" enough to read the surface level interpretations, not actually intelligent enough to read up on who the Fremen (and the empire they're opposed to) are actually an allegory for.
homie, they celebrate fricking ramadan
>Arabs are the only Muslims
Midwit
>n-no the fremen aren't sandBlack folk even if they're virtually the same
>m-midwit!
>a certified mitwit.
THEY SHOOT FRICKING LASERS AT SHIELDED SHIPS. BASIC FRICKING RULE THAT DIDN'T EVEN NEED EXPOSITION AND THEY COULDN'T EVEN FOLLOW THAT.
When does that happen? In this scene it clearly shows a projectile that slows down as it enters the shield https://youtu.be/jiFcxj3NXIU?si=UmjvsZIIwSuEefLm&t=159
When they carve up half of arrakeen trying to take down Duncan in a shielded thopter. Shitty action scene that doesn't do anything for the plot or characters beyond looking pretty. Faithful adaptation my fricking ass.
They then don't bother with the one Kynes places in his hidden botanical research station despite them having a scene where they are using a lasgun to cut through the door
I just wish the movie was a bit more visually diverse. Aside from maybe Jessica, everyone looks same same. Also wish they included the dinner/banquet chapter of the books. Also, mubi was kinda boring and Timmy is a bad Paul.
A fiery, but mostly faithful adaptation
>removes important scenes from the book so director can jerk off to his minimalistic shit
>mostly faithful adaptation
Lol
Make your own adaptation. I say that because I believe the kind of adaptation you seem to want would be extremely difficult to get right. Exceedingly difficult.
>it was excellent.
It was shit. As an adaptation and as an independent movie. Aggressively mediocre. Only a shitwit would like slop like that.
are there insanely cute shota hot boys in this? didn't paul get jamis' two sons? were they shown? are they insanely cute shota hot?
I don't remember her so hamburger diet-chubby in dunc p1
It's too much to ask actors to get into shape for roles. Paul looks like a guy who doesn't do any exercise period, Duncan Idaho looks about 30 lbs overweight, Stilgar looks about 50 lbs overweight. Very believable as these character, bravo Villainvue
Good points. And now Chani in part ii looks downright waterfat. Girl, lay off dem spiced latte's.
I don't like all the changes from the trailers. There's another one where she questions the prophecy.
>book chani
>supposed to be quite lovely despite her handicaps and utterly devoted to paul
>movie chani
>hideous ogre who acts combative towards paul almost constantly
It makes me weep that things got to this. Some Disney-channel dysgenic mutt playing one of the most elegant and beautiful characters in the books. Also
>Villeneuve did an excellent, faithful job with Part 1
GO. FRICKING. BACK.
Sean Young was beautiful.
Never again will we have this. It’s truly saddening.
I don't care i refuse to watch Dunc
>that part in the book where Paul's twins mind tap into their parents' spirits and start making out
>that part where Paul's freak sister gets posessed by the spirit of her grandfather
>that part where Paul gets his eyes blown the frick out by a bomb, and then mind warps into his infant son's head to get a decent view of the room he's in in the final confrontation (was Herbert not aware that infants were quasi-blind in their first months of life?)
>that part where the whole climax of the second book hinges on whether Paul, the omnipotent, omniscient, God emperor robot frick is sentimental enough to let his wife (who died in childbirth) go (despite having a ready galaxy harem to please him)
>that part in the first book where a 4 (?) year old toddler goofily stabs a 600 pound floating landwhale frick and then yeets herself out of the gaping hole of a ship
>that part where the scale of destruction is galaxy, multi-trillion body spanning, but the most destructive event in the 2nd book takes place in a dingy alleyway in NOTfallujah.
Man these books were so fricking campy. The first one was alright. It definetly feels like something I'd have appreciated as the height of sci-fi at 14. But when you remove the intricate narratives woven by Herbert, strip them of the context, and you just list down the bare events like this.. IT's really hard to take seriously.
>that part where Harkonnen's autistic fricking nephew gets milked for sperm and then that fricking plotpoint goes nowhere
>that part where Paul's first son literally dies in the margins of one page. Like an afterthought.
>that part where Paul tells his actual wife that she can take a lover but can't give him cuck kids (she's literally begging him to frick her, but he won't because muh Chani and shit)
>The whole unconvincing Paul/Chani romance. The frick did he see in that elf b***h?
>The whole conspiracy in the second book with the floating fishman in a tube that went literally nowhere.
>nephew gets milked for sperm
i want to see that. is the nephew insanely cute shota hot?
He's played by the Elvis actor, and meant to be foil for Paul. So.. no.
not having kids with irulen was probably to prevent a bad end I think
>>that part where Harkonnen's autistic fricking nephew gets milked for sperm and then that fricking plotpoint goes nowhere
I only read the first book, did it seriously go nowhere? Why did it even exist? Besides some characterisation/parallel with Paul that also didn't really go anywhere.
It was kind of a failsafe for the Bene Gesserit breeding program. Their original plan was to couple an Atreides daughter with Feyd-Rautha to get their Kwisatz Haderach.
That plan went to shit when Jessica had a son (Paul) instead of a daughter and the Atreides line supposedly having died out in the coup on Arrakis.
So to salvage at least one half of the breeding program they manipulated Feyd into cooming inside a fitting Bene Gesserit witch.
It ultimately goes nowhere, I assume because Paul keeps a close eye on the BG after becoming emperor.
>>The whole unconvincing Paul/Chani romance. The frick did he see in that elf b***h?
He literally dreamed of her before coming to Arrakis. Also he was going through puberty and she was the first female around his age he would have interacted with (not counting the vapid Harkonnen-plant prostitute at the Arakeen dinner party which he made instantly), any boy would have crushed on her under these circumstances.
>(despite having a ready galaxy harem to please him)
it's not about pleasure. it's because he cared about her. nobody in that harem would be good enough because they're not his wife.
it's baffling just how many "people" can't understand affection beyond cheap orgasms.
Chani is his concubine. He wouldn’t frick his actual wife.
He would never frick his wife because Irulan is bene gesserit, Paul hates them and they want to kill the woman he loves
isn't she only his wife because of political necessity?
And that's all before Paul's son turns into a worm god. There's a very good reason this shit hasn't ever been adapted and it's not just because "it's so grand and deep!"
BR: 2049 remains his best science fiction film
That flick is BOOOOOORING.
why did these gays have to make everything so brown grey and shitty, wheres the fricking costumery and the fricking set design? it's all so fricking bland and tasteless.
I think it looks great.
Basically if you squint really hard and apply a lot of wishful thinking, you can almost believe this is a good adaptation of Dune. With unfinished placeholder CGI/Costumes.
anyway besides some shit pozzed casting it pisses me off he just had the doctor randomly do the betrayal
It was not random, you blithering idiot.
In the context of the movie it is absolutely random, the book has chapters of the doctor being conflicted over his choice to betray them for his chance to get revenge over his BG wife. The movie has no scenes like that at all, it comes out of the blue and the actor has maybe a single line about his wife and he puts on such a thick accent many of my non book reading friends missed it.
>blue within blue
>the effect is so minimal that it's barely noticeable in shadow
ok
God Zendaya is ugly. Why did you do this to us Hollywood?
>Are they changing her too much?
from the first sceen it was 'muh people so suppressed by white people', that was not an progress, that was not an accident. With this they change the whole point of the story, and that of the second book
In the novel chani fights and kills Paul challenger and thats her only girlboss moment, she fights because she wants to be worthy of being Muad'dibs bride, yes she was fighting for HIM
Villeneuve has managed to take out all the wonder and mysterious orientalism out of Dune.
why did Denis insist on making everything washed out
Isn't that just his default minimalist visual style?
it is, key example Arrival, but the vibe I get from the book is less of that
BR2049 wasn't washed out was it? I thought that had beautiful vistas
Br2049 had a different visual director. Villeneuve was still able to include scenes of giant featureless slab architecture, but it wasn't nothing but giant featureless slab architecture, as it is with Dunc. In Br2049, those set pieces represented the corporate world, and contrast with small cluttered, sets that represented the underclasses.
>On the other hand I'm aware that the trailer is not the movie and may contain lines that will be not in the movie
All of Chani's lines in the trailer are Muh freedom strong woman, Paul is the one that says the romantic lines while she just looks at him, she doesn't show any of the vulnerability and softness she had in the book. Her only romantic line in the trailer even is "you will never lose ME"
> and that Villeneuve did an excellent, faithful job with part 1
LOL yeah sure
Book Chani is only really there to give him children
Chani told Paul how to kill Jamis
Chani saved Paul's life after he drank the Water of Life
Chani was the reason Paul didn't go insane sooner
>and that Villeneuve did an excellent, faithful job with part 1
Replace "excellent, faithful" with "played it very safe, cut out anything interesting" and you'd be right. Not a terrible film, impressive visually, but it slashed every single interesting aspect of the books, things like genocidal AI wars, space Jihad, spice mutations, spacing guild, MANY MACHINES ON IX, and so on. Some of these were probably axed for political reasons, others axed for being inaccessible to audiences.
David Lynch at least embraced most of these things and his film is memorable for it.
>MANY MACHINES ON IX
Great dialog from Lynch.
This opening line comes after several minutes of building anticipation. The Guild is coming.. It's important.. They'll only speak to the Emperor.. They arrive with an entourage and an environmental chamber the size of a bus. A horribly mutated... thing emerges, shrouded in mist. The Emperor awaits his words... what will this creature say? Can it even speak? All that, to then open with what is apparently an internal musing on the relative merits of competing technology concerns on distant planets. This one brief line establishes both the detached, inhuman mindset of the Guild and the balance of power wrt the emperor. Dennis could learn a thing or two from this one scene.
monkey face
>Villeneuve did an excellent, faithful job with part 1.
lmao
Must subvert european beauty standards with mid mutt
I grow weary seeing this DOG of a woman. Enough is Enough!
Black hair is so fricking gross. It's not even hair. It's like a gristle, comparable to pig fur.
She doesn't even have Black person "hair"normally, she styled it that way to appear even less white
>not fully expecting things to get changed just to tick off boxes for woke points in TYOOL 2023
ngmi
book chani was nothing but a broodmare for the chosen ones chosen son.
>being opposed to Paul at any point in the book.
She desperately wants him to bump babies into Irulan while she watches.
>ook ooook ookookook oookooooook
thank god there are subs
for me it's them genderbending Liet Kynes because "I can't imagine a male being an environmentalist"
I wouldn't be surpired if herbert would agree with this change, he introduced female soldiers in god-emperor because "they're not prone to rape and war crimes"
And then Herbert introduces Honored Matres next lol
It makes no sense for Paul to marry Irulan.
>it makes no sense for the guy who usurped the imperial throne to take the previous Emperor's only daughter to secure his claim
>only daughter
It's a plot point his bene gesserit wives were ordered to cuck him out of producing any male heirs.
he had multiple children and they were all daughters.
You're right about it being obvious why Paul would marry her.
Yes. After the Jihad the old system is no more and Paul is literally worshiped as a messiah. That's a stronger legitimacy than marrying a daughter of former emperor.
It's as if Lenin or Stalin tried to legitimize his rule by marrying Romanovs daughter.
>Paul is literally worshiped as a messiah.
Only by dirty fremen. Logistically his crusade (formerly jihad) makes no sense.
How did ~ 10 million Fremen conquer the entire known universe? I know Paul had the Spacing Guild cucked so he had a monopoly on space travel but those numbers just don't make sense
Remember that interplanetary communication was done at courier speed, couriers transported by the Guild. So there was no way of communicating with other planets to organize effective resistance. Nobody would even know how the events of the Arrakis affair unfolded until Paul, or a herald of Paul, appeared in orbit, announcing the recent (very legitimate) transfer of power. The subjects would then be invited to make their obeisance and hand over noble captives (strictly as a formality, of course). If they refused, their planet would be embargoed and the Fedayakin would be unleashed.
Almost anything war-related was half assed in the books, mixed with a lot of arab wank
>my desert people are so tough and merciless and smart because of their desert planet that they can just conquer the whole Empire in a few years
>also they become murdering zealous morons like regular sandBlack folk
I'm pretty sure Herbert was unconsciously racist, it's hilarious
It's not that farfetched considering how fast and total Islam's first conquests of the Middle East and North Africa were. The Byzantines and Sassanids were the conventional major powers of their time too.
The Emperor and his savage army control the empire because they control space travel and have a savage army. Paul takes control of the space travel and has his own savage army in the form of the sandpeople.
Shaddam had all families armies doing the dirty work for him, the sardaukars were elite low number shock troops unable to conquer hundreds (thousands?) of planets in a decade.
The other houses were kept in line with the threat of the sardukar wrecking them. How are you going to invade a planet if you don't have spice to travel there? Once Paul controls arrakis he effectively has domain over the empire.
>The other houses were kept in line with the threat of the sardukar wrecking them. How are you going to invade a planet if you don't have spice to travel there?
Oh Paul could try to starve the empire of spice but it's implied that the wealthiest families have a lot of reserves exactly in case this kind of shit happened. They didn't feared the sardaukars as much as being excommunicated by the emperor, becoming free to grab by all the others.
This I also agree with, why siding with your notoriously scheming baron to control Dune when you can order the guild to orbital bomb the fremen to keep them in check while you personally manage the most important planet in your empire?
I’ll take the ‘84 model, please
Keep her, she's all yours! oof.
>lynch dune
sucks
>mini series dune
sucks
>dennys dunc
sucks
>dune after the first book
sucks
>dune after the idiot son took over
sucks so much beyond belief it's unreal
>dune comics
sucks
>dune video games
suck
Face facts fellas, we never stood a chance
>>dune after the first book
>sucks
absolutely filtered
>>dune video games
>suck
>mfw traded some shitty Dune RTS for Age of Empires 2.
Suck it Garret. No backsies.
Lynch's Dune was pretty great, safe for some editing choices, and Frank Herbert himself loved it.
The Syfy mini-series also was great, especially for what little budget it had.
Frank Herbert's sequels are mostly fine, even if they aren't as monumental as the first book (and to be fair, that's generally how sequels work).
As for the vidya, the RTS is generally well respected by those who like the genre. And the porn game is pretty solid.
>Lynch's Dune was pretty great,
Hahaha
>Frank Herbert himself loved it
so what? He also wrote some of the dune sequels, he wasn't that smart
>so what?
Imagine thinking you "own" a franchise more than the creator himself. Reminds me of ...
>He also wrote some of the dune sequels
Yep. You're one of those Star Wars fanboys who hate George Lucas, right?
Haven’t seen the other stuff, but I loved the book and then I saw denis film and loved it. The game is a classic and basically spawned the RTS genre. Saying it’s worse than AoE2 is like saying the original super Mario bros is worse than donkey Kong country 2
They hated him because he spoke the truth
Between her and harambe, I wish harambe had lived and she was the ape that died.
>character is half arab
>they cast murican monkey
Why aren't they cancelled?
Messiah is the best part of Dune so wake me up when they adapt that.
For me it's stillsuits that all look about three sizes too large for the person wearing them and also appear to be assembled out of overlapped contemporary clothing items.
These lines make no sense once Paul turns on the Fremen for the sequel lol
They're fumbling stuff, I wonder if they even read past the first book
>modern cinematic take on Dune
>fremen and sardaukar wear loose-fitting pajamas
>sandworms look like shit
>no memorable or notable architecture
Chani was a loyal wife and supported Paul who became the Fremens messiah. Can't have that in woke Hollywood.
Kyle was a lot better-looking than the Chalaisraelite guy. I'm not gay either.
The books are a completely different animal. Introspective, philoshopical, concerned about (breaking of) tradition, large-scale societal systems and at the same time aptly convey how a person would deeply be concerned by dealing with forces tens of thousands of years in the making. A monumentally important thread is one of free will vs determinism.
All of that is absent in the movie which simply parades the tropey Dune situations in a package that closely resembles a life insurance commercial with a bit of explodey blockbuster stuff for good measure.
in fairness a lot of that stuff doesn't come into play until the second half of the first book and Messiah, Dune starts as a pretty conventional hero's journey
You’re being too critical of the movie. It absolutely does have some of that stuff. I saw it before reading the book and definitely picked up on some of those themes.
>Dune is a deep philosophical work
Lol no. It’s a basic ass scifi novel. Is 40K a “deeply philosophical work” because it has themes of totalitarianism and religion? If Dune is deep to you how does your brain not just melt when you read something that’s actually literary?
you're comparing a book with a tabletop game
Yea tabletop game with hundreds of novels. Don’t be such a disingenuous dickhead
“Novels”
Yes, 40K was an example of shallow scifi. Now that I’ve explained it to you so simply a moron could grasp it.. do you understand?
40k isn’t sci-fi though you rube
40K is a BRAND based on a setting. 40K novels are scifi books that use that setting. 40K models are used to play a tabletop game within that setting. Clearly you read some fricking post about how “le 40k is a tabletop game, go home secondaries” and now you’re repeating it. Get it now you autistic freak?
It’s not sci fi though it’s space fantasy. And you’re the one going on an autistic rant about a tabletop game not me
>It’s not sci fi though it’s space fantasy.
That's a dishonest distinction without a difference, especially in comparison to Dune
The distinction is nobody takes bolterporn seriously as books. They’re not trying to say anything more than BING BANG WAHOO BUY MORE PLASTIC CRAP! Dune actual has themes worth considering and thinking about. Might be a reason they keep trying to adapt his work and nobody wants to adapt spess marines which is really just a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of actual sci fi books including Dune.
you're the one being disingenuous. warhammer novels are a byproduct of the tabletop game (which on its own is a byproduct of the dune universe). they're uncomparable because they're on different scales
They’re comparable because they’re both scifi stories. You are actually a fricking moron and I strongly suggest you go back
>b..bb..but those two things you compared aren’t exactly alike in every way.
No comparison is alike in every way or it would just be the thing itself. A perfect metaphor is perfectly useless because it can’t be used to explanation. A map that is perfectly accurate would have to be the size of the land. Is this how somehow too confusing for you? Do you actually not understand how comparisons for the purpose of explanation work?
Go back to jerking off James Joyce on Cinemaphile you homo
Will Paul be getting Harah as his ghanima?
Reminder that AI ordered abortions kicked off the Butlerian Jihad
>In the same year as their marriage, (205 B.G.), Jehanne went to the capitol of Pylos to enter the hospital for the birth of a child. Since both parents had married late in life for their culture, they were especially eager for this birth. When on the delivery table, Jehanne was anesthetized; when she awoke, she and her husband were informed that their daughter, Sarah, had been aborted. The hospital explained that the fetus had been too deformed to survive. The abortion was described as therapeutic
>Jehanne's control of her own body, which as a result of her Bene Gesserit training extended beyond those muscle systems usually thought of as automatic, had permitted a deep knowledge of the growth of her child within the womb. She was convinced that it was impossible for her child to have been so grievously malformed as the hospital had described. In time, Jehanne came to believe that her child's death had at best been unnecessary. Using the access to official records provided by Thet'r's position as Logistos, she discovered within the archives of the hospital evidence that the hospital director — the first selfprogramming machine on Komos — had instituted a program of unjustified abortions
Chani is acting as a foil to the Fremen who idolize Paul as a god-prophet. She loves Paul, but will be the audiences mouthpiece that things are going too far down the religious zealotry path.
>wait a second we just wanted freedom not to jihad the whole galaxy
>we got the boot off our neck guys why keep going
>Paul they’re beginning to think of you as a holy figure are you sure this isn’t going too far
That’s my guess at least. In the books Chani was pretty much a static background character. She was there to keep Paul somewhat tethered to reality, so in a way she’s fulfilling the same role, just in a more active way. They had to give her some kind of characterization to justify her salary.
Yeah this makes sense. I hope they preserve her femininity better than what the trailers would have you expect. Little talked about is the erasure of Jessica’s feminine approach to taking down those two Harkonnens. In the movie she just uses the voice plain and simple, but in the book I recall it being more of a fake-seductive thing. She is feminine to the correct degree in the other parts though as far as I can recall.
Chani is the only one who understands Paul's pain, when he confessed his fears to her in the Water of life ritual, she SAW the future he dreads so much, Paul is still very much human here, he's terrified but her love reassures him, she doesn't need to fricking lecture him to make a point of the insane fremen, Hell we don't even see that happening till Dune Messiah.
>I see us giving love to each other in a time of quiet between storms. It's what we were meant to do.
But nah you are crazy whitei boy that will enslave us - movie Chani
It’s depressing to see. There seems to be this strawman-type thing where people say she’s just an empty background character in the novel, so they had to do this (she’s not). I agree her character being expanded would aid the movie, but there was enough personality in the book to expand upon so that changing her personality so drastically isn’t necessary. But again, I am sympathetic to the notion that allowing her to be a voice of opposition (to some extent) would aid the movie. I really liked part 1. At this point I’m just hoping that this is a misleading trailer.
It legit baffles me that people watched Dunc.
I never understood why did people hate leto II so much. I know he was a tyrant and all but the book makes him look like as if he's the worst person in the galaxy, so bad that literally everyone including his own right hand man wanted to kill him, yet they never tell what he actually did to piss off everyone so much
If someone has complete power over your life you’ll hate them no matter what they do. Humans crave some level of self determination inherently.
Also, he wanted to be overthrown, so his rule was needlessly (from a non-prescience perspective) oppressive. He took away freedom to travel or do anything risky for example.
Imagine being able to pretty freely travel between worlds. Then all of a sudden a worm man with a fem dom army says you’re not allowed to and also not allowed to innovate and proceeds to dangle freedom in front of your face for 10k years the whole time ranting about the Golden Path from his smug worm face
Also he has fits where the worm takes over and they're getting worse as time passes
We didn’t deserve Lynch’s dune so much better than DUNC.
Leto 2 is still a pretty sad character, he wasn’t really able to solve the same problem the plagued Paul and the only way he could try to get out was by allowing himself to be killed
The only things about Lynch Dune that was good were the set and costume design.
dune is an anti-colonial piece, which is a concept way too complicated for Cinemaphile to even think about without having a stroke
i don't give a frick about original source material anyway. if you're not going to do your own spin on things, there's no reason to adapt things. nothing is canon. everything is permitted.
Hello Brian Herbert, i didn't expect you here
>the only reason to adapt is to show the themes in a new perspective
Based. “Muh source” plebs eternally btfo’d
>anti-colonial
Eh, kind of. The harkonnens were evil for destroying an environment and people for profit and power, not because they expanded their influence. Otherwise the duke wouldn’t have got a pass.
You are hating on the source material, while telling others not to hate the cashgrab adaptation. Lol
Villeneuf fans in a nutshell. I'm so happy Nolan destroyed his fraud career
>anti colonial
>oppressed native peoples messiah is from off world
lol
this i cant be the only one that preferred the menacing shiny ball baron over the chatty redditor book version. no i do not care about his banter with starscrea- i mean piter.
excellent, faithful job with part 1
There are posts discussing this with specific arguments and counter arguments. I urge you to reply to them and say something substantive. I honestly find it hard to believe that people don’t think it’s an excellent film.
the demonstrations showing its unfaithfulness as an adaptation are definitive
whether or not the movie is enjoyable as a movie is an entirely different matter
It's clear both Chani and Irulan are getting girlboss plots that aren't in the books in keeping with current gender equity parameters.
>Zendaya singlehandedly ruining all the redhead roles
This is reason enough to hate her on top of her being the loudest representation of the bland mystery meat crusade in Hollywood.
Why even bother making Messiah, it's a borefest.
16 year old Alia training naked
They'd just cast a POC fridge monster.
Why does she look like some Jason Momoa's ugly cousing here, kek
>woman
>fighting for her people
Good joke.
The unrealistic part is the Emperor playing political games with Arrakis instead of making sure his own people control it as firmly as possible.
>Villeneuve did an excellent, faithful job with part 1.
Lmao okay Denis, whatever you say.
What year are we in? Of course they're going to make her a super kewl girl boss. She's black, she's woman.
Watching Dune 2021 gave me the same feeling I had watching Star Wars for the first time.
Wow good for you anon
>great acting and characterization compared to both Lynch and Hackneuve (especially Paul who feels like an actual human)
>colorful setpieces and costumes
>sexy slaves (male)
Why do people disregard SciFi series?
I've watched 1984 version yesterday and I feel like Lynch had no idea what he was doing judging by how characters were directed. Patrick Stewart' Gurney was especially terrible - it's like he did get the memo it wasn't a stage play.
>he didn't get the memo
>Patrick Stewart' Gurney was especially terrible - it's like he did get the memo it wasn't a stage play
*polygonaly leaps towards you with a knife* GUARD YOURSELF FOR TRUE YOUNG MASTER
>it's like he did get the memo it wasn't a stage play.
It was a stage play, imbecile. It's you who didn't "get the memo".
God, she's so fricking ugly. Incredible that she was pushed as hot and got an entire career as an "actress". Face of a monkey, body of a starved 13 year old boy, diarrhea skin tone. Ugh.
Also, it was obvious they'd "modernize" her. Meaning: make her another "sassy strong and independent nonwhite teenage gir". Every story needs to spread The Message.
I'm only surprised they didn't make her a black male and had him frick Paul.
Honestly pretty much everyone in the book is licking Paul’s ballsack the entire time.
>i’m le strobk independent womyn hear me rorr
Frick you.
If you want to tell a more nuanced story about him go further into the next books where he’s turning into an all seeing monster schemer.
Frick. Why is this thread still alive after more than 24 hours? Maybe it's because Austin Butler and Timothee Chalamet are relentlessly handsome.
Why didn't they cast this chick?
because your picture is 10 years old and Mexican Maisie Williams looks like a 50 year old Goblina El Atrocidad now.
Damn... I guess they really had no choice but to go with that dog of a woman, zendaya.
>Villeneuve did an excellent, faithful job with part 1.
My brother in Christ, please stop.