As in "classic, traditional" Avengers.
Obviously anything illustrated by George Perez is wonderful and comfy. But otherwise, their comics are just kind of there. Stuff like the Kree Skrull War is fine but it's not some kind of high achievement in comic books. There's a lot of better stuff from the Big 2 alone.
The only times it felt like they mattered was Millar's Ultimates, Bendis' New Avengers (like it or not) and Hickman. And that's because they all reinvented what the Avengers should represent.
And now thanks to Disney/MCU, we'll never get that again. It's always going to be the safest blandest line up of synergy characters having artificial stakes.
"Marvel's Justice League" is just antithetical to the unique charm of Marvel characters. It doesn't have the the imagination and warmth of F4 or the soap opera and mythos of X Men. Hulk and Cap are more interesting solo.
You know I'm right,
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>You know I'm right,
You think you're right, when in fact you're wrong
There is not a single story of them actually avenging. Not a single time has a writer thought maybe they should do what they are named.
Watch Endgame anon
You've clearly never actually read any Avengers if you genuinely think this
I listed 3 runs that I thought mattered.
It's not like Galactic Storm is some achievement. I would put Squadron Supreme above just about every Avengers story.
If you're talking about marvel team books, I'd rank SS higher + DeMatteis Defenders + Lee/Kirby and Waid and Hickman's F4 + DnA's GOTG + Parker's Agents of Atlas. And that's not even touching the X Men.
wow, what a standard non-retort, It's as creative as the concept of avengers, which is, not at all
weak bait
Out of curiosity, do you think the Justice League is a boring concept too?
No because the DC heroes are more mythic while Marvel heroes have worked best as "feet of clay"
Some concepts work better at Marvel and vice versa
F4 was Stan's creative response to JLA. There was way more juice in Spider Man, X Men, Hulk, Daredevil, Nick Fury. Even Stan admitted Avengers was a "why not" cash grab
>or the soap opera and mythos of X Men
Traditional, classic Avengers has plenty of Soap Opera though, and it has as early as Cap's Kooky Quartet
Name an actual iconic kooky quartet story though. That was the first interesting premise but that Silver Age writing is still primitive
kooky quartet is literally half x-men team. Funny that you have to put x-men characters to have any soap opera
Wanda and Pietro are Avengers characters
fake fan you never read an avengers comicbook
filtered by scott kollins run
Johns' Avengers is boring and too short to mean anything.
Can you name an Avengers story that you think is in the top 10 greatest Marvel stories ever?
He won't because he doesn't read either. I would probably try with Kang Dynasty, but it's top 10 avengers story, not quite top 10 marvel
ultron 6 storyt
avengers 200
first thirteen issues made by busiek
the ones with vision in 60s/70s
avengers annual 2001
Avengers is a slop title without any identity whatsoever. It’s just used to push whichever slop character they’re trying to force down your throat at any given time. Blade has a new movie in development? Blade is an Avenger! Captain Marvel still not getting over with the fans? Captain Marvel is an Avenger! There is no “core” team like there is with FF or the X-Men. The JLA used to be like this too until Morrison finally codified the roster for good. Avengers is goyslop = the comic.
>The JLA used to be like this too until Morrison finally codified the roster for good.
Pretty sure the Superfriends cartoon did that before Morrison
Adaptations are one thing. Avengers cartoons and movies have a largely set roster too. But Morrison shifted the comics meaning of Justice League to “this particular specific group of people” rather than some squad people can rotate in and out of. Avengers comics are probably going to end up doing this too tbh, I don’t know why it hasn’t already happened after the movies.
Morrison's JLA also featured roster changes. It was really a very short period from the Detroit era to the end of the JLI titles where the League was in "non-iconic" mode. For the 60s and 70s there was always a core roster of iconic characters. Morrison brought that concept back but he is far from the first person to think "hey, the JLA should have characters who matter".
B8ing moron. I'm bumping this just so people can see your awful OP and ridicule it. moron.
It's not bait, I listed things I liked about Avengers
You can't name truly iconic Avengers stories.
>You can't name truly iconic Avengers stories
House of M 😉
>Operation Galactic Storm
>Forever War
>Kang Dynasty
>Kree/Skrull War
>Korvac Saga
>Ultron Unlimited
>Under Siege
There. moron.
I kneel
Where would you put those stories in the list of greatest Marvel stories?
Against Miller's DD, Squad Supr, Claremont X saga, Morrison's X men, Strikeforce Morituri, Priest BP, Ennis Punisher, steranko shield, Gerber Howard the Duck
Most of those aren't really a point of comparison for a straight-ahead traditional superhero comic such as The Avengers usually is.
Because the Avengers was built out of characters from other comics (I think Vision was the first major Avenger actually created for the comic) it usually ends up as the place where continuity gets woven together and characters from different books come together to see the sparks fly. That means it doesn't have as strong an identity as other comics but it's a great place to do "Marvel Universe" stuff.
It's not even the best place to do "marvel universe" stuff
Starlin's Infinity saga, Annihilation, the Earth X trilogy are better and bigger than Avengers
I don't think any of those are as interesting as the best Avengers stories honestly, but I'm not very interested in cosmic stuff.
But anyway those are doing different things. Avengers comics are not (or shouldn't be) cosmic crossover events, they're the story of a team of characters from different corners of Marvel, and the best Avengers stories often use that to weave together different stories/characters that weren't originally supposed to go together.
Roy Thomas used Avengers to put together stories that older, non-nerdy creators like Lee and Kirby never thought of putting together, like when Vision turns out to have the brain patterns of Wonder Man, a character Lee never intended as more than a one-off. And that snowballed into other stories about Wonder Man and eventually Wonder Man actually coming back and Vision wondering which of them is the "real" man and so on.
It's like years of scholarly commentaries on a sacred text.
>Most of those aren't really a point of comparison for a straight-ahead traditional superhero comic such as The Avengers usually is.
WHICH IS WHY AVENGERS COMICS GENERALLY SUCK
Well, by the standards of serious art or even whatever "serious" Big Two superhero comics are, yes, but it's a bit like saying a good Western sucks compared to a good realistic story about the Old West, or The Music Man sucks compared to Death of a Salesman. They're following different rules.
Light genre entertainment shouldn't be held to low standards, the creators should be called out for shoddy work, but it's a kind of entertainment that deserves to exist.
>Operation Galactic Storm
90s slop
>Forever War
>Kang Dynasty
>Ultron Unlimited
Busiek's run is a fun love letter to the nostalgia of bronze age avengers but it's impenetrable in terms of continuity. It's capeshit continuity porn
Not Busiek's fault.
>Kree/Skrull War
>Korvac Saga
They're good stories! But not the best stuff Marvel has made.
>Under Siege
Probably the closest Avengers reaches toward true depth but there are still deeper marvel works
Avengers were never good, but so what?
I mean, having most of your stories revolve around a similar-ish plot of a team of characters fighting the villain of the week trying to take over the wotld is kinda limiting
Avengers is two concepts in one. It's the all-star team it started as, and then as of #16 it's a team book for characters who have no other "home" like the X-Men or Fantastic Four.
What makes it interesting is that both those concepts are there. In-universe the Avengers are supposed to be the big public-facing team who are everyone's first choice to fight big threats, not like those suspicious X-Men... but the stories are largely about B-listers who have no books of their own. There are many characters whose whole identity revolves around being Avengers like Wanda and Vision and the Wasp.
The last part has been lost because even when they do a lineup of veteran Avengers like the current one, too many of them have solo books for anything they do in "Avengers" to matter.