Speaking of killings, no fricking way this is the end of Two-Face, right? He can't be killed in such anticlimactic way as being pushed down a cliff, can he?
It's not that huge of a deal. In the movies, Bruce keeps flip-flopping between callously murdering his foes and trying to save Selina or Shreck. Would I have liked this comic to ignore a flaw from the movies? Sure, but acting like this is a sin against them is stupid.
All the villains died in the Burtonverse movies. Hell, at least Two-Face's is more ambiguous, even if I don't think we'll get more from this comic.
Pretending Batman isn't a killer is one thing. Pretending Bat-Keaton of all Batmen isn't a killer is a fricking sin, dude was a schizo back then. Yeah, he tried to save Shreck from Selina because he didn't want her to fall in the same path as him (which was basically becoming a murderer just like him. Like, once he discovered Joker killed his parents, he blowed up a factory full of criminals, shooted some of them with his batwing, killed Joker himself, and later didn't stop anyway with Penguin's goons).
And I see this as continuing that inconsistency. Again, it's one thing I didn't like with the movies and I wish this comic was better about, but I can't call it sacrilege either.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>it's one thing I didn't like with the movies
You're being subjective. Don't get me wrong, if there was a chance to turn Bat-Keaton into a more traditional Batman, no killing code included, I would take that, since Forever itself showed the concept can work good with him. Problem is the execution. You can't, in this case, involving this comic, pretend Batman or other character isn't one thing, when basically you saw him being that thing tons of times. It would be different if this story arc was number 02 or 03 in this series, with the idea of Bat-Keaton refusing to kill being perfectly established and developed in a proper story. But it isn't, since Hamm didn't took the time to build all that in a natural way.
Imagine if Nicholson's Joker later showed up in another issue and pretended he was just a prankster like Romero's Joker, the type of Joker that never killed anyone. Maybe you could like that since you maybe prefer Clown and harmless Joker (as I do, for instance), but it still would harm Nicholson's iteration of the character and create a BIG contradiction since there's actual actions done by this character that contradict what he's saying, specially if he just says so because the script told him to.
>Yeah, he tried to save Shreck from Selina because he didn't want her to fall in the same path as him
This is basically it, he knew if she killed Shrek it would be all ogre for her.
Do writers not watch the burton batman movies
He is literally a badass because he kills his villains in a campy stupid way like the cheesy golden age batman but brutal and yelly
How? This story LITERALLY continues multiple plot points from that movie one way or another, being either bringing Harvey back from that movie, or keeping's Joker legacy alive in the form of the Joker Gang.
It's like they retconned Joker being still alive but they actually forgot to show it or explain it, it's embarrasing. 1 FRICKING YEAR AND THOUSANDS OF DELAYS FOR THIS SHITSHOW
Personally, this by far, since it was writen by the same guy that wrote the first movie and established everything that happened there. Doomsday Clock at least wasn't wrote by Moore himself.
>Rich boy arrested at age 8
Is she drunk? I think she's drunk. When did that happen with this iteration of Bruce? How can ONE single page contain so much frickery?
Quick, explain how every single villain and thug survived Bat-Keaton:
>Joker died, but got better. >The Axis Chemicals thugs that were present when the factory exploded fell into the water surrounding the place. >Black Joker Thug was saved by Nicolas Cage dressed as Superman
>underwhelming two-face >no riddler >pointless catwoman >underwhelming robin >racebait storyline with no insight whatsoever >doesnt continue after the other two in an interesting way
Will someone write a good script?
It already happened: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA1WU-9UVxw
If you want it in comic form, you have "Batman: Fears" by Loeb and Sale, which isn't set in the Burtonverse BUT it's the closest we will get done right.
I can't believe Channel Awesome actually came up with a more interesting continuation
Though I gotta point out, they did this one springing from another video they did, of Batman Returns, but with Billy Dee's Harvey Dent playing more of a role
But I can see a way to tweak this so that it'd fit in with Batman and actual Batman Returns
Yeah, it's the "bad side" of the thing, you need to watch that video too to fully understand the context in this one, but I can let it go since they at least tried to make Harvey an actual character. We can't say the same about '89 Two-Face, who started being one thing and ended up literally tossed aside like a broken toy by Catwoman out of nowhere.
Probably he just doesn't care. I believe now rumors about him totally hating Batman with a passion. I mean, let's just say he didn't remember: Then why didn't Quinones, the artist, or the editor, remember him? Specially Quinones, who kept pushing this project since 2016, saying he was this big fan about this version of the character and shit like that.
Besides, if he wanted to write Keaton into a direction of "I don't want to kill anymore", why don't build this up since the first issue? I mean, we literally saw him causing a helicopter to explode and the pilot to jump to his death and he didn't care. This is not just contradicting the Burton movies, it's contradicting this project itself. It's bad writing at it's core.
I don't know about that, chief. Seems like a long fall to me, and only one of them made it out. Bat-Keaton at least killed one guy there. Two if the one that jumped didn't had luck on his side.
Which is totally pointless once you realize the Burtonverse will merge with the DCEU during that movie, creating a new universe where Keaton, for instance, it's still Batman, but he never killed anyone anyway.
If this comic took place in that universe, it would make sense tho, but it isn't, so...
I dont know if i believe that Hamm hates batman, his original script for 89 was pretty good, but i can believe that he dislikes the burtonisms burton added on top of his script.
>I believe now rumors about him totally hating Batman with a passion.
He does.
I dont know if i believe that Hamm hates batman, his original script for 89 was pretty good, but i can believe that he dislikes the burtonisms burton added on top of his script.
>his original script for 89 was pretty good
The Joker, Vale and Allie Knox (Robert Wuhl) were well written but Batman/Bruce is presented as causing more problems than solving and is a well meaning idiot. He also gets blackmailed by Knox into quitting Batman and doesn't put up a fight about it.
There was an old interview with Hamm in Starlog back when the original movie was coming out where he openly said he thought the whole idea of Batman was stupid but he was told to 'make it real'.
Also if you look back at his Detective Comics run the story is from the perspective of Ducard, who I've always suspected was Hamm's self insert, who basically just deconstructs the entire mythos of Batman as ridiculous.
So in a LOT of ways? Hamm was the original Tim King, which OP's panel is very reminiscent of.
>i'm not a killer
>flashback to the first batman movie where he's murdering crooks like it's nothing
>i'm not a killer
>he straight up killed The Joker
>Flashback to when he met Catwoman when he tucked dynamite into that dudes belt with a smile.
Speaking of killings, no fricking way this is the end of Two-Face, right? He can't be killed in such anticlimactic way as being pushed down a cliff, can he?
Can he?
It's not that huge of a deal. In the movies, Bruce keeps flip-flopping between callously murdering his foes and trying to save Selina or Shreck. Would I have liked this comic to ignore a flaw from the movies? Sure, but acting like this is a sin against them is stupid.
All the villains died in the Burtonverse movies. Hell, at least Two-Face's is more ambiguous, even if I don't think we'll get more from this comic.
Pretending Batman isn't a killer is one thing. Pretending Bat-Keaton of all Batmen isn't a killer is a fricking sin, dude was a schizo back then. Yeah, he tried to save Shreck from Selina because he didn't want her to fall in the same path as him (which was basically becoming a murderer just like him. Like, once he discovered Joker killed his parents, he blowed up a factory full of criminals, shooted some of them with his batwing, killed Joker himself, and later didn't stop anyway with Penguin's goons).
And I see this as continuing that inconsistency. Again, it's one thing I didn't like with the movies and I wish this comic was better about, but I can't call it sacrilege either.
>it's one thing I didn't like with the movies
You're being subjective. Don't get me wrong, if there was a chance to turn Bat-Keaton into a more traditional Batman, no killing code included, I would take that, since Forever itself showed the concept can work good with him. Problem is the execution. You can't, in this case, involving this comic, pretend Batman or other character isn't one thing, when basically you saw him being that thing tons of times. It would be different if this story arc was number 02 or 03 in this series, with the idea of Bat-Keaton refusing to kill being perfectly established and developed in a proper story. But it isn't, since Hamm didn't took the time to build all that in a natural way.
Imagine if Nicholson's Joker later showed up in another issue and pretended he was just a prankster like Romero's Joker, the type of Joker that never killed anyone. Maybe you could like that since you maybe prefer Clown and harmless Joker (as I do, for instance), but it still would harm Nicholson's iteration of the character and create a BIG contradiction since there's actual actions done by this character that contradict what he's saying, specially if he just says so because the script told him to.
>Yeah, he tried to save Shreck from Selina because he didn't want her to fall in the same path as him
This is basically it, he knew if she killed Shrek it would be all ogre for her.
WHY, CARLOS, YOU LITTLE
>when he tucked dynamite into that dudes belt with a smile.
To be fair, he was a big guy.
For you.
Do writers not watch the burton batman movies
He is literally a badass because he kills his villains in a campy stupid way like the cheesy golden age batman but brutal and yelly
>Do writers not watch the burton batman movies
THE WRITER OF THIS WROTE THE FIRST BURTON BATMAN MOVIE LMAO
Did they forget?
How? This story LITERALLY continues multiple plot points from that movie one way or another, being either bringing Harvey back from that movie, or keeping's Joker legacy alive in the form of the Joker Gang.
It's like they retconned Joker being still alive but they actually forgot to show it or explain it, it's embarrasing. 1 FRICKING YEAR AND THOUSANDS OF DELAYS FOR THIS SHITSHOW
What was worse this or Delay Clock?
Personally, this by far, since it was writen by the same guy that wrote the first movie and established everything that happened there. Doomsday Clock at least wasn't wrote by Moore himself.
There were so many rewrites that the end result barely matches his original script.
Even then that makes it less of a 'I don't kill' and more like a 'I apply lethal force but somehow people survive that, so I don't actually kill'.
I really wonder if DC has anyone on payroll who is in charge of continuity
>Rich boy arrested at age 8
Is she drunk? I think she's drunk. When did that happen with this iteration of Bruce? How can ONE single page contain so much frickery?
Arrested as in arrested development
DC: NOOO BATMAN CANT KILL RETCON IT FOR FLASH 22!!!
Quick, explain how every single villain and thug survived Bat-Keaton:
>Joker died, but got better.
>The Axis Chemicals thugs that were present when the factory exploded fell into the water surrounding the place.
>Black Joker Thug was saved by Nicolas Cage dressed as Superman
Damn that's really good art, they got the likeness down too
And it just took them 6 issues to do it right.
>underwhelming two-face
>no riddler
>pointless catwoman
>underwhelming robin
>racebait storyline with no insight whatsoever
>doesnt continue after the other two in an interesting way
Will someone write a good script?
It already happened: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA1WU-9UVxw
If you want it in comic form, you have "Batman: Fears" by Loeb and Sale, which isn't set in the Burtonverse BUT it's the closest we will get done right.
I can't believe Channel Awesome actually came up with a more interesting continuation
Though I gotta point out, they did this one springing from another video they did, of Batman Returns, but with Billy Dee's Harvey Dent playing more of a role
But I can see a way to tweak this so that it'd fit in with Batman and actual Batman Returns
Yeah, it's the "bad side" of the thing, you need to watch that video too to fully understand the context in this one, but I can let it go since they at least tried to make Harvey an actual character. We can't say the same about '89 Two-Face, who started being one thing and ended up literally tossed aside like a broken toy by Catwoman out of nowhere.
Storytime for the final issue?
Can't do, rippers didn't upload DC's stuff today, maybe tomorrow.
What the frick
Did Sam Hamm forget or was this his way of trying to "correct" what Burton did?
Or is this intended to show the "new timeline" created post Flashpoint (movie)?
Probably he just doesn't care. I believe now rumors about him totally hating Batman with a passion. I mean, let's just say he didn't remember: Then why didn't Quinones, the artist, or the editor, remember him? Specially Quinones, who kept pushing this project since 2016, saying he was this big fan about this version of the character and shit like that.
Besides, if he wanted to write Keaton into a direction of "I don't want to kill anymore", why don't build this up since the first issue? I mean, we literally saw him causing a helicopter to explode and the pilot to jump to his death and he didn't care. This is not just contradicting the Burton movies, it's contradicting this project itself. It's bad writing at it's core.
The guys could've dived appropriately and survive.
I don't know about that, chief. Seems like a long fall to me, and only one of them made it out. Bat-Keaton at least killed one guy there. Two if the one that jumped didn't had luck on his side.
This will explain no kill Keaton in Flash 22
Which is totally pointless once you realize the Burtonverse will merge with the DCEU during that movie, creating a new universe where Keaton, for instance, it's still Batman, but he never killed anyone anyway.
If this comic took place in that universe, it would make sense tho, but it isn't, so...
I dont know if i believe that Hamm hates batman, his original script for 89 was pretty good, but i can believe that he dislikes the burtonisms burton added on top of his script.
>I believe now rumors about him totally hating Batman with a passion.
He does.
>his original script for 89 was pretty good
The Joker, Vale and Allie Knox (Robert Wuhl) were well written but Batman/Bruce is presented as causing more problems than solving and is a well meaning idiot. He also gets blackmailed by Knox into quitting Batman and doesn't put up a fight about it.
There was an old interview with Hamm in Starlog back when the original movie was coming out where he openly said he thought the whole idea of Batman was stupid but he was told to 'make it real'.
Also if you look back at his Detective Comics run the story is from the perspective of Ducard, who I've always suspected was Hamm's self insert, who basically just deconstructs the entire mythos of Batman as ridiculous.
So in a LOT of ways? Hamm was the original Tim King, which OP's panel is very reminiscent of.
Apologize, I guess? He was still bad, but he was consistent in his own frickery at least.
>I'm not a killer
does DC not watch their own movies?
He got better.