I haven't read the comic however, I recently watched the film adaptation which was disappointing. The story felt rushed, never really building the atmosphere or allowing the slow unravelling of the mystery such a Lovecraftian story seems like it should have. Additionally, some of the characters, perhaps the worst suffering being Bruce's wards, don't really get developed and just come across as being there - mentioning the kids I don't really get why they had Cassandra "we are not calling her Cassandra or having her be like her" Cain. The root problem may have been the duration being too short - it doesn't even properly reach 90 minutes total runtime; plenty of stories can be told in 90 minuets however, the story they wanted to tell required more time. To clarify: I didn't hate the film but, it felt like wasted potential. Also, I do wonder what people who have only limited familiarity with DC or only knowledge about Batman thought about the inclusion of Etrigan - though I suppose most people who watched the film would have such passing knowledge. Is the comic much different to the adaptation?
>mentioning the kids I don't really get why they had Cassandra "we are not calling her Cassandra or having her be like her" Cain
Huh. I've only read the comic, and she's not in it. Only reason to put her in the cartoon is as a lure for Cass fans, but then they don't call her by her name, like they chickened out at the last minute. What a weird thing to do.
Nevermind that it kinda feels more problematic for Bruce to be the kind of guy who collects children from around the world as opposed to just having some orphans from gotham he took in.
I liked the comic better. Felt better paced. The movie's definitely one of DC's better animated adaptations, though. I agree with the other anon that the artist is definitely aping mignola, but I like the outcome. It feels appropriate for the tone/style.
Dont care about the animation, but I like the comic. The prophecy stuff is fun, Bruce becoming the Man-bat is quite fitting, even Etrigan, being actually sent by the Elder God's is refreshing. But I'm a sucker for lovecraftian motifs, so I'd give it the benefit of doubt anyway. Also the antarctic expedition is such a multi-nod to Dracula, Hellboy, Lovecraft of course, wonderful beginning of the story.
I didn't like it. Normalgays continuously misunderstand Lovecraft, and no I'm not talking about funny racism. Lovecraft is about deep time and humanity's impermanence, not spooky cults and tentacle gods. Those are just consequences of deep time. So if you were to do a Batman Lovecraft story, you would have something like Batman discovering that Gotham and the cities it is built on top of are cursed to suffer from insane murderers before being destroyed, and Batman tries to stop it but ultimately fails. Maybe he gets people out successfully, but Lovecraft is certainly not about the kind of bullshit that happened at the end of the movie.
I complain because I am thoroughly tired of the watering down of cosmic horror into normalgay slop.
But the lovecraftian aspect of it is batman having to sacrifice his own sanity and being to put what is all likely a temporary stop to this.
At least that's how it felt like the comics framed it. The whole thing about, like you said, deep time, is that victories are temporary, and it's not about cataclysmic endings in the moment, it's the knowledge that they can happen down the line, and that you really won't stop all of them.
>stop to this
I think that works better if you take out Green Arrow and even more so Jason Blood / Etrigan. Their inclusion means it doesn't really come across as if this is a world that is especially Batman only and rather it seems like wider DC setting: that probably should have a Doctor Fate or Phantom Stranger or Wonder Woman etc. etc. to tackle the issue. Combine Batman with Lovecraftian horror sure however, the stakes being a world destroying cosmic tentacle monster coming through a giant mortal doesn't really fit Batman and it is a shallow take on Lovecraft.
>Their inclusion means it doesn't really come across as if this is a world that is especially Batman only and rather it seems like wider DC setting: that probably should have a Doctor Fate or Phantom Stranger or Wonder Woman etc. etc. to tackle the issue.
That's a giant leap in logic because there was nothing in the book to imply the existence of Doctor Fate or Wonder Woman or Phantom Stranger or others. The general rule with these things is that characters don't exist unless there's something that hints or directly reference them in the text or a subsequent sequel, or the creators say they exist (but even in that case it's up in the air since it's not officially printed). And on top of that there was no guarantee that they would've even been the same. Oliver Queen wasn't a traditional crimefighter in this universe, he was prepping himself to fight the oncoming threat (and he died in the process).
I blame that more on DC or WB wanting their usual lineup shoved into every variation even outside of comics, so people expect a larger DC Universe reiterating itself
Nah, he's right. There's plenty of Batman stories (Elseworlds in particular) where Batman is implied to be the only DC character around, but once you add some non-Bat characters, it starts implying that you have Superman and the rest too, just barely out of frame.
>Oliver Queen
But it is still Oliver Queen, both a character distinctly separate from Batman. >traditional crimefighter in this universe
A twist on the character but, still fundamentally treated by the story as a being alt Green Arrow. >That's a giant leap in logic
As
Nah, he's right. There's plenty of Batman stories (Elseworlds in particular) where Batman is implied to be the only DC character around, but once you add some non-Bat characters, it starts implying that you have Superman and the rest too, just barely out of frame.
points out in other stories it is more firmly implied, if not outright established, that Batman is unique.
>stop to this
I think that works better if you take out Green Arrow and even more so Jason Blood / Etrigan. Their inclusion means it doesn't really come across as if this is a world that is especially Batman only and rather it seems like wider DC setting: that probably should have a Doctor Fate or Phantom Stranger or Wonder Woman etc. etc. to tackle the issue. Combine Batman with Lovecraftian horror sure however, the stakes being a world destroying cosmic tentacle monster coming through a giant mortal doesn't really fit Batman and it is a shallow take on Lovecraft.
>Combine Batman with Lovecraftian horror sure however, the stakes being a world destroying cosmic tentacle monster coming through a giant mortal doesn't really fit Batman
This is the fundamental problem. Regardless if Batman exists in a world of other heroes or not, the ultimate stake does not fit Batman in the same way Batman shouldn't be solo fighting off an super-strength alien despot.
I just remembered that in the film there is a contemporary-day map rather than a 192X one. It's a minor thing in the grand scheme of things but, it really irked me upon seeing it.
The part with the Penguin at the beginning was kino.
one of the funnest animated dc shit in the last ten years
Excellent plot, terrible art from a guy trying to hide his lack of talent by aping Mignola and Pope. I enjoyed the movie.
Pretty decent comic
Movie was better than most DC animated movie efforts over the past decade
The comic was somewhat underwhelming.
The movie was perfect pulp Cthulu.
Don't know about this one but the animated movie on Batman vs Jack the Ripper was cool as frick and better than the comic
I haven't read the comic however, I recently watched the film adaptation which was disappointing. The story felt rushed, never really building the atmosphere or allowing the slow unravelling of the mystery such a Lovecraftian story seems like it should have. Additionally, some of the characters, perhaps the worst suffering being Bruce's wards, don't really get developed and just come across as being there - mentioning the kids I don't really get why they had Cassandra "we are not calling her Cassandra or having her be like her" Cain. The root problem may have been the duration being too short - it doesn't even properly reach 90 minutes total runtime; plenty of stories can be told in 90 minuets however, the story they wanted to tell required more time. To clarify: I didn't hate the film but, it felt like wasted potential. Also, I do wonder what people who have only limited familiarity with DC or only knowledge about Batman thought about the inclusion of Etrigan - though I suppose most people who watched the film would have such passing knowledge. Is the comic much different to the adaptation?
>mentioning the kids I don't really get why they had Cassandra "we are not calling her Cassandra or having her be like her" Cain
Huh. I've only read the comic, and she's not in it. Only reason to put her in the cartoon is as a lure for Cass fans, but then they don't call her by her name, like they chickened out at the last minute. What a weird thing to do.
Yeah the movie replaced Tim with Cass and Jason with an Indian stand-in implied to be that universe's Jason
Nevermind that it kinda feels more problematic for Bruce to be the kind of guy who collects children from around the world as opposed to just having some orphans from gotham he took in.
Pretty sure collecting children of any kind is a huge red flag.
It is not just the name thing, she also speaks perfectly fine and has no martial arts skills.
Looks fun, animation looks great
Might watch it tomorrow
I liked the comic better. Felt better paced. The movie's definitely one of DC's better animated adaptations, though. I agree with the other anon that the artist is definitely aping mignola, but I like the outcome. It feels appropriate for the tone/style.
Dont care about the animation, but I like the comic. The prophecy stuff is fun, Bruce becoming the Man-bat is quite fitting, even Etrigan, being actually sent by the Elder God's is refreshing. But I'm a sucker for lovecraftian motifs, so I'd give it the benefit of doubt anyway. Also the antarctic expedition is such a multi-nod to Dracula, Hellboy, Lovecraft of course, wonderful beginning of the story.
I didn't like it. Normalgays continuously misunderstand Lovecraft, and no I'm not talking about funny racism. Lovecraft is about deep time and humanity's impermanence, not spooky cults and tentacle gods. Those are just consequences of deep time. So if you were to do a Batman Lovecraft story, you would have something like Batman discovering that Gotham and the cities it is built on top of are cursed to suffer from insane murderers before being destroyed, and Batman tries to stop it but ultimately fails. Maybe he gets people out successfully, but Lovecraft is certainly not about the kind of bullshit that happened at the end of the movie.
I complain because I am thoroughly tired of the watering down of cosmic horror into normalgay slop.
But the lovecraftian aspect of it is batman having to sacrifice his own sanity and being to put what is all likely a temporary stop to this.
At least that's how it felt like the comics framed it. The whole thing about, like you said, deep time, is that victories are temporary, and it's not about cataclysmic endings in the moment, it's the knowledge that they can happen down the line, and that you really won't stop all of them.
>stop to this
I think that works better if you take out Green Arrow and even more so Jason Blood / Etrigan. Their inclusion means it doesn't really come across as if this is a world that is especially Batman only and rather it seems like wider DC setting: that probably should have a Doctor Fate or Phantom Stranger or Wonder Woman etc. etc. to tackle the issue. Combine Batman with Lovecraftian horror sure however, the stakes being a world destroying cosmic tentacle monster coming through a giant mortal doesn't really fit Batman and it is a shallow take on Lovecraft.
>Their inclusion means it doesn't really come across as if this is a world that is especially Batman only and rather it seems like wider DC setting: that probably should have a Doctor Fate or Phantom Stranger or Wonder Woman etc. etc. to tackle the issue.
That's a giant leap in logic because there was nothing in the book to imply the existence of Doctor Fate or Wonder Woman or Phantom Stranger or others. The general rule with these things is that characters don't exist unless there's something that hints or directly reference them in the text or a subsequent sequel, or the creators say they exist (but even in that case it's up in the air since it's not officially printed). And on top of that there was no guarantee that they would've even been the same. Oliver Queen wasn't a traditional crimefighter in this universe, he was prepping himself to fight the oncoming threat (and he died in the process).
I blame that more on DC or WB wanting their usual lineup shoved into every variation even outside of comics, so people expect a larger DC Universe reiterating itself
Nah, he's right. There's plenty of Batman stories (Elseworlds in particular) where Batman is implied to be the only DC character around, but once you add some non-Bat characters, it starts implying that you have Superman and the rest too, just barely out of frame.
>Oliver Queen
But it is still Oliver Queen, both a character distinctly separate from Batman.
>traditional crimefighter in this universe
A twist on the character but, still fundamentally treated by the story as a being alt Green Arrow.
>That's a giant leap in logic
As
points out in other stories it is more firmly implied, if not outright established, that Batman is unique.
>Combine Batman with Lovecraftian horror sure however, the stakes being a world destroying cosmic tentacle monster coming through a giant mortal doesn't really fit Batman
This is the fundamental problem. Regardless if Batman exists in a world of other heroes or not, the ultimate stake does not fit Batman in the same way Batman shouldn't be solo fighting off an super-strength alien despot.
I just remembered that in the film there is a contemporary-day map rather than a 192X one. It's a minor thing in the grand scheme of things but, it really irked me upon seeing it.
Like it, but dislike that Dick died.