There was a point in the MCU where Natasha Romanoff, the Black Widow, was the master of all spies and assassins, second only to Nick Fury himself. There wasn't any location she couldn't sneak or break into. There wasn't any human being she couldn't kill. And in the Black Widow movie, where they should be hyping her up the most as she's the titular hero, they literally have her say that she probably kinda sorta killed Dreykov, she's pretty sure, maybe, she never actually bothered to confirm it, but yeah, it probably worked, and by the way, she actually thinks his death alone would've most definitely immediately stopped any and all activities the Red Room was up to at that time even if he had died.
Because that's how a master class spy and assassin, who's so good at killing high ranking targets that they made her a fricking Avenger, does things.
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I mean the guy went from being exploded by his own kid carrying a bomb to vanishing up into the clouds, never to be seen or heard from again?
But yeah it was kinda callous for her to abandon the other agents.
If Natasha had done her job properly and then mistakenly concluded that Dreykov was dead because he'd expertly covered his tracks, that would be one thing. But she literally tells Yelena she didn't bother confirming his death out of good ol' "There's no way he survived that." Because that's how top tier assassins do their job. "I probably got him."
She's chock full of conflicted emotions and loyalties, having lived most of her life brainwashed (as opposed to mind-controlled) and she's in a VERY hostile country doing terrorisms and skedaddled out of their in a hurry.
I can't really defend it though, her backstory wasn't an intricate work of writing genius. Also keep in mind Fury wrote the guy off as dead, even though he's the closest thing to his Russian counterpart.
>>her backstory wasn't an intricate work of writing genius
>The Black Widow writer watches the first Avengers
>Loki: "Dreykov's daughter? Sao Paulo? The hospital fire?"
>These are all very clearly different, unrelated horrible things that Natasha did over her long pre-SHIELD career
>The Black Widow writer's dumb ass: "Wow, that sounds like a really intense single, solitary mission!"
I think they were more focused on bringing Yelena in. And Wanda, was going to die. They do this a lot now because they are making MCU products, and not hero movies. Black Widow wasn't about Wandas last grand adventure it was Yelena's introduction.
Natasha, anon. Black Widow's name is Natasha. Wanda is Scarlet Witch.
Same breasts.
>Same breasts.
Anon those are four different separate boobs, each one deserving of love and attention in it's own right.
Funny how they dropped the plot so fricking hard on a character like Black Widow in both the comics and the movies. she should be so simple, just a cool spy lady.
But no they just have to heap retcons onto her to try to make her "work"
>she's sad because she can't have kids
>she's immortal
>she's clones all the way down
>>she's clones all the way down
She's what now? Can I have a clone Nat gf?
Short version: Matthew Rosenberg
Long version:After they did the usual dumb shock death with Black Widow in Secret Empire they decided to bring her back in a series nobody fricking read. In that one first of all we find out the Red Room is still up and fully operational despite all the previous times Natasha and Yelena have finally destroyed it. It turns out "Black Widow" is a series of clones that goes back god knows how far back and whenever one dies they pop out another one and have a telepath named Epsilon Red implant it with the relevant memories of the previous ones. They don't actually say how many Natashas deep we are by now but this is the current canon. And this has never been revealed or hinted at in all the previous stories about the Red Room.
So the new Widow goes about working for them but Ursa Major who is the only person who knows about this who isn't a total shitbag bribes Epsilon Red to give the new Natasha the memories of the death of her predecessor, as well as the knowledge that she is a clone. This makes new Tasha start dismantling the Red Room and by colluding with Winter Soldier and Hawkeye to make it look like she killed them and by using clones of Yelena (which the Red Room also makes) she finally kills everyone involved, explodes the cloning facility and murders the shit out of Epsilon Red.
So the current status of 616 Widow is "series of assassin clones created by cold war era USSR sciecne project implanted with memories to think they are the same person who lived very long and also implanted with all the skills of the prrevious ones".
It would have been so easy to just revive Widow in some other way and at least pretend like she's an individual. I'm not sure why you would ever want this kind of story for what you claim is a major character of your universe since it really does make her feel more like a video game enemy than a person.
>That story.
Fricking hell.
>That artwork.
Fricking hell.
I'll be fair and say the art is from a parody issue. But the story as much as it sounds like a parody, is not. I think Marvel is pretending it never happened now and I guess functionally you can pretend it didn't, but the background retcon totally erodes her uniqueness, whatever she still had of that after all the other shitty Red Room retcons.
I mean she was cloned after she died so she has the same soul that's how it works.
War Machine is also a clone with the mind uploaded from the previous Jim Rhodes.
So is Iron Man. Well, no. That's not true. We're like four or five Tony Starks into 616 with the mind of the AI being based on a composite between teen Tony from another timeline, a simulacrum of original 616 Tony but without him being corrupted by Immortus created by Franklin Richards and possibly another AU Tony. Unless that composite Tony actually vanished entirely in Secret War since when he went into it he was still reversed from AXIS and the Tony we got out was fully good with no mention of having been evil.
Iron Man is the most convoluted character.
Iron Man is a clone of an ai backup of a an ai backup of a clone of an ai backup and is technically three different Tony Starks simultaneously, Teen Tony, Classic Tony, and Heroes Reborn Tony.
My problem isn't with "Black Widow is a clone". My problem is "Black Widow is a series of clones assembled by a cold war experiment". It removes any interesting background for the character since it turns her/them into just a mass manufactured super-soldier. There's nothing unique or interesting about that, it doesn't open up for any good stories, it only serves to limit future backstories and other stuff. It's an origin you assign to a video game mook, not a superheroine.
Ignoring all that bullshit would be the obvious solution, but if you really want to make it work somehow, I guess you could have Natasha still be a long-lived super spy but she only died once.
It's so funny that she died in a story arc involving the literal fricking cosmic cube and yet they were like "Nope that would be too easy and obvious of a way to bring her back, let's make sure we make the character even worse instead"
Now lets think about Endgame.
>Natasha dies to retrieve the soul stone
>Captain America returns the soul stone
>Captain America does not revive Natasha because...
Both cases are so baffling to me. Like if you don't care about Black Widow then stop trying to make her happen, Marvel/Disney. If you care about making her a thing then STOP MAKING FRICKING AWFUL STORIES WITH HER FOR FIVE MINUTES
They said several times the sacrifice is permanent even if you time travel.
Then what's the narrative reason for the TVA purging timelines?
They have nothing to do with the Soul Stone.
But why would the USSR want a spy with a bunch of memories who thinks it's a person, that just makes it more likely they'll go rogue??? All of the spy brainwashing is to remove their personhood to begin with! Also if you can do that shit then why not clone people with different faces and then insert the combat training and mission parameters with the psychic, creating the ultimate spy that can't be recognised because they're brand new and also won't rebel because they have literally no memories outside their mission? You could clone the vice president and get an assassin that's perfectly positioned to kill the president! Instead of just bringing back the really recognisable redhead that the states of Europe and the US already know is a scary USSR super-spy that should be killed on sight?
Hell, they could steal a surgeon's memories, kill and clone him and then insert all the same memories except also give him the urge to frick up his surgery on the target they want dead, and the clone wouldn't even know it's a clone! I'm assuming the psychic can only imprint the memories on a blank clone slate, otherwise you can just skip the whole clone stage and just fricking brainwash the surgeon directly.
>>she's clones all the way down
Wait what
the character was great before the quasi MAX series in 04 destroyed her character, ScarJo was great as the character btw.
>ScarJo was great as the character btw.
homie stop frickin' playin'
She was great when she was actually playing Black Widow (Iron Man 2, The Avengers). By Infinity War and Endgame she was basically just playing "Scarlett Johansson, but with more punching."
>the character was great before the quasi MAX series in 04 destroyed her character,
I unfortunately have to agree. There should never have been more to it than "Russian ballerina gets psy-oped into becoming a secret agent after her husband dies but ends up defecting and joining the good guys"
And yet here we are with one of the messiest character histories of any Marvel charcter that normies can name and it's all happened in the last 20 years
Correct. 80s and before Widow was peak, the modern wangsty edge is too much.
>Correct. 80s and before Widow was peak, the modern wangsty edge is too much.
I dunno if you're bad faith arguing this on me but I'm going to respond as if you were serious. Yes, I unironically agree and the reason why that version is superior is extremely simple for me. Pre-2002 Black Widow felt like she was a character with agency who had chosen her own path in life, and the post-Red Room one becomes less and less of her own person with each retcon.
Pre-2002 Natsha chose to become Black Widow after her husbands death and while this was a deception and he didn't die the choice was still hers to make, as was her later decision to defect to the US. Even in her first costumed appearance in Tales of Suspense the communist government have to resort to blackmail to keep her working for them. She has true independence. And that also meant that when she was in a comic it wasn't all navel-gazing about her origin and about how miserable and shitty her life was because she grew up in the Red Room and now some never before seen Red Room dude is back even though she killed them all a million times already. Pre-2002 Natasha was free to do whatever the writers wanted, she world for SHIELD fighting random villains, she teamed up with Clint, she was on the Champions, she hung out with Matt in San Fransisco. And eventually she was considered trustworthy and stable enough that Cap nominated her for Avengers leader, which is not something that happened often back then and hell barely happens now.
After the retcons her stories just become misery porn. She finds new shitty "truths" (retcons) about her past. She was never a ballerina! her love for Alexi was implants! She has to save Yelena from becoming as miserable as she is! She's clones! And all they do is make her more recursive, more focused on those eternal shitty Red Room stories. She has no agency left, we barely even know who she is as a person anymore because it's all been gutted and tossed out.
I don't know if there is a Marvel protagonist who has been torn down to the same level as her. Hank Pym is the only one who eclipses her in how he's been systematically destroyed.
It's why they keep throwing shit at the wall with her, like the symbiote thing. Nothing sticks, because they've been so thorough in destroying her core. And Brubaker is also to blame, to make his self insert work he messed up her past with fake memory shit and also got her tied to edgy wangst stuff along with him.
A very, very big rule of thumb, is if a superhero doesn't (to a degree at least) enjoy leading the life they lead, said superhero sucks. Superheroes are escapist power fantasies, they should be having fun.
It's infuriating. They usually at least respect the original origin and personality for characters even when they get retcons or shocking new developments. Tony is still basically tony despite being an increasing series of ontological nightmare recreations. But with natasha they just threw everything from before the first min out. If it gets referenced it's a memory implant or some shit.
And I don't think it can be fixed, even if somebody gave a shit.
The only way to fix it, is for people to just ignore it going forward
>multiple clones? never mentioned again
>memory issues? she never has them again
>angsty loneliness? have her be part of the avengers and enjoy it
That's how you fix. By ignoring.
Yeah, I mean that's what they should have done back in the 2000s. But everyone who has ever been put in a BW title has been all about the Red Room bullshit. So we're stuck in this hellhole.
remember when they had as her writers, two movie writers whose only credits were some god awful bootleg saw gorefests?
Yeah. And that wasn't even her worst run.
That's fine for people like you and me who already know what we want out of a new take on her. But to any other reader that'll just look like you're pulling shit out of your ass and not paying any attention to her super important history. You have to do at least a bit of reconstruction to reintroduce the classic Tasha stuff and normalize it. make sure people understand this is the original version, unaffected by all the MCU synergy and awful attempts at relaunches.
What other reader? How many black widow readers even are there? It's me, you, folks that read everything, folks that like her, so they know her past and mcu gays whose version of widow is closer to the one we want than the post 00s 616 one.
It's fine.
easiest way to fix it is Natasha was the OG Black Widow, 40s-50s commie science experiment. You can keep the super soldier element and her age but still have her be unique. Then in the 90s they restart the Red Room and we get Yelena and the Black Widow Corps becomes a thing. The Black Widow Corps all die except for Yelena, who is Natasha's only rival/frenemy.
>OG Black Widow in the 40s
Bring back Claire Voyant.
Modern Scarlet Witch is basically the modern version of Claire Voyant.
Besides, pic related is one of her better stories
And now you can get more of it!
I wasn't arguing in bad faith, I 100% agree with you and meant it in earnest.
Sorry for being snappy. I'm just not used to seeing people share that belief with me because barely anybody knows what Black Widow was like before they decided to make her the empty black ops stereotype she is now.
Time to post my two favorite Widow pages
This Natasha is to thorough excised from Marvel's current mindset that it would look actively OOC if the current version said something like this.
Me again, I had to step away, sorry.
I find it bittersweet that Chris Claremont is writing classic Natasha right now in his weird vanity project continuity insert Madripoor Knights. It's refreshing and haunting because it serves to remind me that this version of the character is just gone. But Claremont remembers and while this series isn't great, bless him for actually doing Logan, Tasha and Steve hanging out.
On the one hand, yes, on the other hand nat shines the most to me when paired with people who aren't fellow soldiers/spies. like, her with stark have the best interactions, imo. I'd love to see her with someone like the ff too. I know she appeared in an invisible woman mini, but I think she was edgy again, so I avoided
The same happened with "Black Widow and the Marvel Girls". This is a non-616 continuity-lite series released to be readable by even a casual reader and each issue pairs Natasha up with a different character. And not just the expected ones. Wasp, Storm, Ms Marvel (Carol), Enchantress, it's a wide variety of team-ups. Unfortunately this mini while being untethered to 616 still is mired extremely deep in Red Room garbage and several of the stories are basically "nobody knows who she really is" "I can't trust her" or "she's so cold and controlled she only lives when she's close to death". So it's a huge wasted opportunity in every way.
it kind of makes sense if you view it as loosely tied to the Marvel Adventures line
Yes I know I just don't like detached black ops Natasha. Never did.
Really? I thought the Wasp issue and the Storm issue found a nice voice for her. A big part of it was introducing the character to normies who were going to watch her in Iron Man next year.
being happy about dying isn't a good voice
it shows she's miserable with her life. which isn't a good thing
>bailing out of a crashing prop plane to save someone's life
>someone who has been actively mistrusting her the whole issue
>having a laugh at the insanity of what's happening
it's not like she doesn't know Iron Man's going to save her. She's the Black Widow, she's not capable of the same kind of fear as a human being
hugging herself as she's plugging to her death, smiling and feeling "weightless", as if a weight has been lifted from her makes me feel the writer tries to claim she's miserable deep down. that's my read and why I dislike it.
Don't get me wrong , the book isn't high art or anything, but it's far from being the worst take on the character.
I'm not getting the level of suicidal ideations or coldness you are from those books. Compare Marvel Girls Natasha to what Brubaker was doing at the time and Marvel Girl's Natasha is quite bubbly and warm.
>Really? I thought the Wasp issue and the Storm issue found a nice voice for her. A big part of it was introducing the character to normies who were going to watch her in Iron Man next year.
If you only read 1999 and onwards Widow I agree with you.
>Marvel Adventures
Typos aside, Marvel Adventures is a fun time in general
I actually love 80s Widow so much
>cropped bright red hair
>the grey suit
>that collar
It's a great design
what run that from?
Those particular pages are from Uncanny X-Men 307 (1993) part of the Blood Ties crossover between X-Men and the Avengers. It just happens to be my favorite Tasha moment ever isn't from any of her own runs.
>the quasi MAX series in 04 destroyed her character
Is that the one with the Bill Sienkewicz art?
that's the sad part. The cartooning is gorgeous but the story is absolutely reductive and moronic. Like it's trying to be this hard left feminist thing but the story is so over the top and ridiculous that it comes across as a far right parody of a far left book.
The characterization of Natasha in the book is all wrong.
Being a hot killer lady just wasn’t acceptable
Why was Melinda May a better Black Widow than the actual Black Widow?
Superior actor. Simple as.
>lets hold off on making a movie about the hot spy because it wont appeal to teen boys! They hate hot spies! Lets do it after she dies!
What the frick were they thinking?
Ike Perlmutter figured boys wouldn't play with a "girl toy".
Did Ike think it was still the 1950s, or...?
He figured no one would notice that they replaced Terrence Howard with Don Cheadle because "Black people all look the same", so...
movies follow their own logic, cinemasins.
Post Sexy Widow.
I'd fix the Widow movie, by cutting off the red room fully. Nat really ended it last time. The enemy is taskmaster, who's Dreykov son. He used assets of his family and footage of widows training and later the Avengers to make himself a super, multi skilled killing machine to Avenge his father's killer. Movie runs the same, with him attacking Nat's family and Nat needing to reconcile with them, but instead of the airship stupidity and the brainwash particles, it's a fight against a super commando taskmaster.
This time Natasha will spare him (instead of considering him acceptable casualty like in the past when she blew up the red room), because she knows she's at fault for his dark path.
Meanwhile, Taskie will learn his dad was a shitbag and not someone worth Avenging. So from then on, he won't be about vengence, but he's not a nice guy either, he'll be a merc for hire.
There, easy, done. And amusingly, the only changes it'll have long term, is that Taskie is a good character. You still get Yelena and co and everything.
who the frick ever cared about black widow other than her breasts and her foot scene in avengers?
Clearly, several comic fans who liked the premise of
>sexy james bond villainess femme fatale superspy, but working for the good guys
>sexy james bond villainess femme fatale superspy, but working for the good guys
My dad liked those comics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modesty_Blaise
She had a solo movie? I don't even remember it existing.
covid lockdowns buried it
Yes and it was slopkino.
Damn that's crazy
You actually watched this movie
I forgot they even made a Black Widow movie
ummm if you don't give me the intel i'll just spy on you and get it anyway!
Sounds like something Ulyana would do.
Reading material my friends!
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Black-Widow-1999
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Black-Widow-2001
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Black-Widow-Pale-Little-Spider
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Black-Widow-2004
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Black-Widow-2
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Black-Widow-Deadly-Origin
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Black-Widow-2010
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Widowmaker
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Black-Widow-2014
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Black-Widow-2016
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Black-Widow-2019
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/The-Web-Of-Black-Widow
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Black-Widow-2020
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Black-Widow-and-Hawkeye
She's had so many awful comics it's almost unreal
>https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Black-Widow-1999
>https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Black-Widow-2001
>https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Black-Widow-Pale-Little-Spider
>https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Black-Widow-Deadly-Origin
>https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Black-Widow-2010
>https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Widowmaker
>https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Black-Widow-2014
>https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/The-Web-Of-Black-Widow
>https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Black-Widow-2020
>https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Black-Widow-and-Hawkeye
the ones worth reading. Also that list is very modern and not including arguably her greatest solo adventures such as her Amazing Adventures run or Web of Intrigue
What's wrong with thr 2016 series?
Noto's boring and too much backstory edginess.
Noto is the 2014 series not 2016.
blasphemous list
web of intrigue and coldest war are her best stories
starting from 1999 is way too late
no, no
even death/duty is better than modern crap
no, no
shit reading material
>Edmondson
Is this guy actually fricked up or did nothing come of those allegations? I wanna know since I did enjoy his punisher run but wondering if his politics were made apparent without me really realizing it
What allegations?
Looking him up and only find that he is a anti poacher
https://www.google.com/amp/s/graphicpolicy.com/2017/11/30/stories-nathan-edmondsons-behavior-begin-come-forward/%3famp
Seems like nothing's come up in a while. I also remember hearing he was the head of some notorious conversion therapy group but I can't find anything on that rn
Of her movie designs!
Hair!
> Iron Man 2 >> Endgame >> Standalone movie >>>> Civil War >> Winter Soldier >>>>>> Avengers 1-2
Suits!
> Main standalone movie suit (not the white one) >> Iron Man 2 > Endgame >>> the rest
Avengers Widow ftw. But I got into comics during the mid 90s so my "prime" understanding of the character was when she was 90s extreme with the tech layering and the bob-cut
>Winter Soldier hair that low
>Endgame that high
have a nice day
>posting the fake
Avengers 1 hair is my favorite
Hair
>CW>IM2>Avengers>WS>BW>Ultron>EG>IW
Suits
>IM2>Avengers>WS>CW>BW>Ultron>IW>EG
VOTE FOR BEST!
https://strawpoll.com/14qq6b3ee/
The villain's plan/existence didn't make a lick of sense. So The Red Room continues SOMEHOW without director or funding from the country that started it, our Weinstein guy's plan is to make agents everywhere.....just to have agents???
They also didn't allow Red Guardian to do anything cool, which sucked
>They also didn't allow Red Guardian to do anything cool, which sucked
He better fight Captain America in a future movie.
>RG: AT LAST! A REMATCH WITH CAPTAIN AMERICA!! Wait. Did you get your hair cut? There's something different about you.
>Sam: What the FRICK?
Just imagine a version of the movie where he got to be badass, if even just for a single scene...
>Make more of a deal about his supposed fight against Captain America. Make him so insistent that even the audience starts to think "Did he really...? Maybe he did..." Who cares if it doesn't make sense, just do it.
>Later, when he's fighting Taskmaster, Taskmaster starts using Cap's fighting style
>Red Guardian: "Wait. That fighting style... That's Captain America." He grins.
>He starts countering Taskmaster's every move and starts beating the shit out of her.
>He starts countering Taskmaster's every move and starts beating the shit out of her.
>Taskmaster uses shield throw.
>Red Guardian catches it with a mid-air spin, hurls it back with more momentum.
>It hits.
>Red Guardian laughs. "Just like cap!"
>Taskmaster starts using Black Widow moves on Red Guardian.
>Red Guardian puts her down in one or two hits.
>"What kind of father would I be if I couldn't handle my own daughters' tantrums?"
Seems like a spanking would be more in order, eh?
>Weinstein guy's plan is to make agents everywhere.....just to have agents
He'd rent them out as mercs.
The movie doesn't even establish that though. They stress he's still loyal to his country, and yet the dumb frick didnt realize they forgot about him
ScarJo being a human Venus of Willendorf gives the movie a very unintentional perverted sense of sexuality. The scenes with Dreykov translate from a commentary on Hollywood execs and their abuse to what essentially amounts to a bondage sequence
Widow: Disgust
Cap: Arousal
I don't understand, why was everyone begging for a Black Widow movie all this time?
Her movie was so fricking boring.
Because female protag.
Not the fault of the people who wanted it that it was bad.
people thought they'd maka a cool espionage movie. instead they made a prequel after she had been killed to introduce her replacement.
Spoiler fricking alert.
She's super dead, anon.
>I don't understand, why was everyone begging for a Black Widow movie all this time?
People wanted a cool, badass, sexy, femme fatale, espionage spy thriller. A Bourne Identity or James Bond with breasts, essentially. Or, hell, even a less goofy Charlie's Angels. Instead we got "Hey, have you heard about #MeToo?" The fact that Natasha was dead at this point and the whole movie was a flashback also hurt it severely. The other fact that the whole movie was a flashback and it wasn't about Natasha first meeting Clint and/or their mission in Budapest hurt it severely even more.
>The fact that Natasha was dead at this point
SPOILER
WTF
Atomic Blonde
atomic blonde also had the woman on the run, betrayed by her agency
same as red sparrow
can't a fricking female spy be happy in her employment like bond is?
>can't a fricking female spy be happy in her employment like bond is?
No, because Bond gets cool gadgets and gets to frick hot women. A female spy gets the agency to pick up the tab on her lingerie, and gets to make out with Eastern European mobsters and generals that look like a sidewalk couch, and then gets to starfish for him and be bathed in his vodka infused sweat.
Why can't the men female spies seduce be as hot as the women male spies seduce? Like, when a woman spy seduces a guy it's always a creepy/ugly idiot who might not even be someone she actively seduces, just someone whose sleazy advances she endures, with the narrative being
>ugh what a creep, I can't wait for her to give him his comeuppance
while when a spy man seduces a woman, she's superhot and the narrative is
>oh boy, lucky spy, I wish I was in his shoes banging that babe
even if the babe is clearly evil.
Why can't we have women spy stories being told with the same approach?
>Why can't we have women spy stories being told with the same approach?
Mostly because it's a product of the Cold War. Eastern European women were exotic, mysterious, and many of them that came to the west became fashion models. But men in positions of power in Eastern Europe (and even in the West, let's be honest) tend to be nepotism hires, advanced more for "loyalty" than competence, and this is reflected in the relative decadence of their lifestyles compared to everyone else under communism, which they took full advantage of when it came to women. And that's aside from the fact that spy fiction is an evolution of the hardboiled detective stories, and are at their core male escapist fantasies. Now you absolutely CAN write stories with the same approach for women, they just don't tend to be very good. But that doesn't mean they won't sell, as you can see with how many dystopian young adult novels feature an ordinary young woman having to choose between leading the revolution and which Abercrombie and Fitch model she wants to take to the prom.
I disagree.I think that's not the reason. I think the reason is that empowerment for women is more
>beat up the creeps that hit on me while I deserve better than them, ugh
rather than
>getting with someone super awesome and being badass at it
, it's like they can't fathom women besides some sort of victim who retaliates. She can't be happy with her lot of life, it's why a lot of women spy stories are about betrayal and being on the run, rather than happily punch clock at their spy job, which they like having.
It's why women spy stories suck. They suck. I don't want a hurt victim getting back at a mean world, I want someone cool and happy being a badass spy and loving it.
So long as writers (men and women, both men and women writers fall into that) keep doing this shit, women spy stories can go frick themselves, I want nothing to do with them.
>rather than happily punch clock at their spy job, which they like having
Yes, as I was typing this, I thought of the Angels, they must be the sole exception to this trite shit
A shame about the latest movie.
They were hoping it was gonna be a hyperviolent movie filled with Scarlet Johhannson lighting up the screen. Instead we got trash and ass shots.
I know for a fact that those two pictures are the same woman with the same ass and I still can't believe it.
Well, see, we were hoping for a Black Widow movie that wasn't fricking boring.
She has interesting lore unfortunately squandered by soulless piece of shit postmodern writers whose agenda openly hated the source material
Some find the animated version more like a double spy but I do like that she doesn’t straight up turn on them in the movies
Animated ones better than the real one? Scarjo is still fine
EMH Maria Hill was cute too
This is more out there then what’s in the movies probably
Perlmutter was not sexiest . He was just practical .
Would Black Widow interrogate via breastboarding or via assboarding?
Tactical feet interrogation
Would Natasha be more liberal or conservative? Extremists need not respond. we'll set JFK at liberal and Eisenhower at conservative.
I'd prefer her as a soviet era communist, but following the ideals rather than the praxis. Aka, commie but anti
>the party controlling everything
>cullings of unwanted
We're never going to get a Hawkeye movie are we?
Clint is a loser, but he's not THAT much of a loser.
Renner got run over by his own tractor
Can't give Clint a movie or show at this point because he's a family man, meaning you have to shoot around the family and those child actors make things too hard. The only chance you had was after the snap when he went crazy, but they went full moron and didn't make a bunch of shows that take place in those five years to flesh out what an impact the snap had on the universe and maybe make some people believe it would be permanent or have a lasting impact beyond Black Widow not returning.
For what it's worth, he got the best of the TV shows (with the arguable exception of Loki Season 2 - but only Season 2).
CUTE
What's the deal with ScarJo's instagram account?
https://www.instagram.com/romanoffthereal/
Wow, if that really is her, she's basically shitposting. Or at least as close to shitposting as a Hollywood actress can get
Would Natasha be moved?
I get the feeling it would've played out like the usual "Previously established hero is wienery and doesn't think the new hero poses a threat and then suddenly the previously established hero is on their ass" routine.
Nah, I disagree. She's a superhero, the dora isn't. She'd win.
you just know they kept that set at 100 degrees
>YOUR LIFE?!
yeah and Fury went from a mysterious leader of a spy ops team with a hidden tragic back story to a guy who had his eye clawed out by a kitty cat after he spent years alluding it was the result of a friend betraying him.
Not to mention, from being a great spy, he turned out to be a fraud who had shapeshifting aliens hand him over successes
Those were also revelations for Fury, yes.
also they killed Maria Hill in a one off.
I want Hasselhoff to show up and take over
Gravik killed Maria, Talos, and Soren. He was not cool or interesting enough as a character or a villain to have been allowed that.
I didn't even care enough to learn the names
MCU Skrulls are Skrulls in name only
>MCU Skrulls are Skrulls in name only
Sure, but Talos was still a fun character and had a good dynamic with Fury. To kill him off in what is basically his second appearance is bullshit.
>also they killed Maria Hill in a one off.
Ugh, don't fricking remind me. She deserved better than that.
Somehow, Damon Dran has returned.
they should od something with Vindiktor
Since when can either of these characters fly?
You make a compelling argument.
Well, as bad as the movie was, at least it gave us Yelena. Now when are we going to get our much-needed Yelena/Kate team up project, Disney? And you better not frick it up like you did The Falcon & The Winter Soldier.