How come Eiji is so dumb?
>Tries to stop a war without killing anyone
>Does nothing but run
>Tries to resolve everything appealing to the good side of both armies
If he weren't the MC he would be dead by chapter 2.
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You must be American
He literally let the world be conquered by Space Nazis because of his "I can't kill, that's wrong" antics.
>Someone says anything at all.
>I HAVE TO b***h ABOUT AMERICA!!
american website
>something something america bad
obsessed
You wouldn't understand, you lack bushido
I unironically liked the second half better, counting the third OVA as the real ending. First is good, but it's way too contrived to be taken seriously and it DOES take itself really seriously, unlike the second half, which embraced its cheesiness. If you liked the first half, I recommend Vifam because it basically did the same premise of young people surving on their own in space, but better.
The first part is somewhat good, but Eiji is always walking the path of the righteous. I expected it to show some result at some point and I would have to agree that the righteous path is actually the good one.
But he doesn't accomplish anything, 70% of the world's population is gone, and culture, arts, and books are prohibited and destroyed.
When he returns to action although everyone's reaction in the anime is "Oh, good, he's back"
I couldn't care less, aside from his friends he can't do shit.
I started this series really enjoying the premise and excited but after the timeskip I just watched to see where it would end.
Eiji is living deep in denial, and hoping that if he gets world leaders to make a public declaration that they'll do better, the Gradosians will relent and call off the attack. In reality, the decision has already been made, the best thing he could have done was to try to organize a defense, but there was no time for that either, so it's hard to blame him for placing his hopes on the long shot.
I see where you're coming from, but after the gradosians wiped the Mars and moon base, you kinda give up on negotiations without demonstrating that you have some leverage.
Power does not only work as a destructive form but to show that you shouldn't be taken as easy prey.
I forget how much the show mentions any of this but before the cancelation, Eiji and friends were supposed to go back to Grados to release everyone from the iron rule of the great supercomputer. The twist was the humans there were not actually from Grados but were abducted from Earth centuries ago and had replaced the real ones over time. Appealing to the bad guys innate sense of humanity (like how Gresco keeps some cultural artifacts for himself) was supposed to bring them all together in the end.
The third OVA mentions that Grados and Earthnoids are basically one and the same or something to that extent but they never went into the whole thing with the Super Computer. The show doesn’t bring it up at all though, at least not from what I remember
So it was really canceled before the true ending?
Is the OVA worth watching?
I'm struggling to finish the last episodes, but I do enjoy the series overall.
Okay so with the OVAs, you need a bit of background regarding the show. I don’t know where you’re up to currently but I’ll spoiler the most damning stuff.
So unlike VOTOMS which had bad ratings but amazing kit sales, Layzner had bad ratings AND bad kit sales and then their episode count got cut down to 39. The story continues as normal with the pace still consistent until episode 35. Suddenly Eiji and Anna are in Mexico searching Aztec ruins looking for ‘the Seal of Grados’ while Karla is there for reasons . It’s not explained what that is or why they’re searching for it. The plot then returns to semi normalcy for two episodes before 38 ends on a huge cliffhanger. Then there’s the finale which is a complete mindfrick. It’s suddenly 6 months or so into the future and a ‘United Earth Front’ or whatever has been set up. It’s explained through narration that Ru Caine killed his father and usurped control of the Grados forces offscreen and now he’s advancing on a spot in Nazca or somewhere to unlock this seal. Everyone goes there, Eiji kisses Anna while wearing his helmet (??) and then suddenly a giant beam of light rises from the ground with Julia in it. Layzner heads to space with Ru Caine in chase and then they both get absorbed into it and things start getting weird as hell. The rest of the episode is a clip show as the crew reminisce on their time with Eiji before we see Layzner floating in space before activating and heading back to Earth. The end. That’s where the OVAs come in. The first two episodes are just (very rushed and at times incomprehensible recaps) of episodes 1-38. The third OVA is basically the proper ending to the story. It greatly expands on what the frick is going on, adds a bulk of content and build up to the events of episode 39 and actually shows what happened in the final battle. So basically, watch up to 39 then watch episode 3 of the OVA.
Damm, you can see how they fricked up with this show.
I guess they never had a proper plot or planning for the 2nd half of the show: things go nowhere and we have a bunch of fillers and things out of place.
I finished episode 39 and I'm gonna be pretty honest. This series is shit. I started watching cause I'm playing super robot saga J and I liked the robots from this series.
I'm pretty disappointed this got picked out since I imagine this had a bad reception at the time.
I'm also watching Dancougar and that one isn't that great either.
Frick off dude
I understand you may love this series and I might've been a little rash when I called it shit, but I'm very frustrated that it started amazingly well and after the time skip things got pretty bad.
I will, I just wanted to know how it went at the time. I did a little research and apparently, it got cut at 2/3 of the planned story right?
What I do wonder is if this cut affected the 2nd half or if it was planned to be that way.
From what I understand, everything was planned from the start, so it wasn’t like they were making it up as they went along. No idea when they were told they were being cancelled but it had to have been sometime before episode 35 as that’s when the plot starts to spiral out of control and they start talking about the Seal without any indication of what the hell it is. But from interviews with Takahashi I’ve read where he talks about the intended 52 episode story, it basically takes off immediately after the show ends if you count the 3rd OVA as episodes 39, 40 and 41 which would mean the Seal stuff would’ve still been present as such. They probably intended to go about it differently but if not it would mean the weird pacing was there from the start? I don’t know, there’s barely any info about the behind the scenes chaos of Layzner online outside of the cancellation and the planned run
That's what worries me about the current-day anime industry, especially with what happened to Sunrise: we'll never get the full story Takahashi wanted to tell for Layzner.
I think that ship sailed when Sanyo accidentally killed 4 people with faulty heaters. Modern anime productions are arguably less volatile than they were in the 80s. At least there's more of a chance to fix things and less chance that a sponsor leaving will end the show abruptly. Also I don't think Takahashi wants to revisit Layzner. There are some books that serve as sequels though.
I don't think Takahashi is gonna even bother coming back.
The studio will probably adapt the old anime + books and if anything goes wrong blame the audience.
Unfortunately, I think we're past long the golden era of Mecha Anime.
How long was the golden era of mecha anime? Even in the 80s the era did a lot to kill several companies.
I can't say for sure, but I'd say in the mid-90s the mecha genre transformed into mecha/armored warriors so you can see a downfall in the genre and an increase in armored shounen.
I'd say late 70s - mid 80's was the best time since almost everyone wanted to create a "robot anime" and we have an enormous number of mecha anime from that period.
I’d say 1963-82, starting with Tetsujin and Astro Boy airing and ending with the last theatrical 0079 movie being released. You can stretch that to Macross coming out if you want, but after that cutoff point, a shitload of shows were released that came and went or absolutely bombed.
That seems to check out. You still had Sunrise churning stuff out up until the last Brave series but Macross ushered in and quickly snuffed out its own sub genre.
I think there's one Japanese network company that lists 1985 as the end of the golden era and it makes perfect sense to me. Only 4 mecha anime aired in that year and 3 of them got their runs cut short. The one success of them was of course Zeta Gundam, and seemingly every other Gundam made it much harder for any new mecha IPs to gain traction.
Gundam and the introduction of Transformers to Japan. Although there is a bunch of SD robot shit that's completely unknown outside of Japan like Iron Leaguer and Ryuknight.
Tobikage had its run cut? The more you know. Wasn’t aware Dancouga got fricked out of it too
Dancouga's final episode ends with a cliffhanger and Requiem for Victims has them properly defeating the final bad guy.
Fair enough. Never got far enough into the show to realise that. Wonder why there were so many goddamn OVA sequels though
1985 was also the start of the OVA boom with Megazone 23 being one of the first big hits so Dancouga lucked out. Plus the show had a fair bit of fan support and there were even events with the voice actors doing concerts.
What's up with Dancouga? The SRW guys obviously love it but I never heard anything but mixed things about it.Then there's this strange cult following.I don't get it, what's so special about it?
Obari’s first major role as a mech designer on a tv show. It might have been his debut actually. He was only like 18 or something when he did the designs so it’s very important for that reason alone. Outside of that, not much. I think it was Kazuki Yao’s debut as a seiyuu too. Outside of that there’s not really much to go on outside of having some cool designs and a really good soundtrack
Jesus I really have to start proof reading my posts
His professional debut was working on Transformers but unfortunately people weren't properly credited for most of those made for overseas shows.
A lot of famous animators and illustrators cut their teeth working on it (or got a chance to strut their stuff). The overall look of the show leaves and lasting impression even if the episode plots are often pretty stupid. Coupled with the strong voice cast made it well suited for something like SRW where they could just cherry pick the good parts.
>episode plots are often pretty stupid
I'm watching right now and I can agree. There are 38 episodes but they only turn in Dancougar in episode 16. They do a huge build-up of the robot but when it shows is not even that great.
That aside the main plot is pretty stupid. One of the main characters helps the human villain defect to the enemy side in the first episode and she is still chosen as one of Earth's mighty heroes even though she didn't also defect cause the MC shot her to prevent her from escaping. They then see that the enemy alien has human intel on their operations and neither tells about the guy who defected in episode 1. and what's worse: THEY'RE ALL FROM THE ARMY.
It's stupid to the point where one of the MCs says "the villain must have human intel, someone who defected or got MIA" and they still don't tell or remember the guy from the first episode.
I'm trying to brute force my watch but is hard sometimes.
Wait until you get to the episode with flowers that make women homicidal and guess who insists on going to blow them up.
Dancouga has a lot of extremes. There are some genuinely clever and inventive parts and then others where you wonder how the characters can tie their own shoes.
The animation also drops into the single digits in some episodes too.
I felt that way exactly, the first 24 episodes were so well-paced and compelling that it just felt like a smack in the face that the second half felt so generic, contrived and at odds with itself. I don't think the third OVA even redeems it that much, it gives the show an ending and some much needed dimension to Lu Caine, but the lead-up to it is highly dismal.
There’s no episode 39, you should skip 38 and watch the third OVA instead but whatever. They did plan the entire thing, but got 10 episodes worth of content cut of sudden.
>Layzner had bad ratings
Layzner had better ratings than Zeta Gundam.
The frick? Where did you read that?
Any ratings website will give you that info. Layzner was cancelled because its main sponsor went bankrupt for reasons unrelated to the show’s performance.
Well shit
Dude, you weren't kidding, the kits for layzner are pretty bad. Nowadays they're kinda expensive.
The high ratings is something mentioned on the Japanese Wikipedia page. One unusual thing about Layzner's cancellation is it likely due to Sanyo pulling out because of a scandal involving defective oil heaters.
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E8%92%BC%E3%81%8D%E6%B5%81%E6%98%9FSPT%E3%83%AC%E3%82%A4%E3%82%BA%E3%83%8A%E3%83%BC
Even people watching old Sanyo ads know the connection between their heaters and Layzner.
"This caused the cancellation of SPT Layzner......"
loooooool
The lack of innovation in Layzner MK II really bothers me.
I love the second form or new robot they get along the series, but Layzner barely changes anything.
Not to mention Buldy and Baybul didn't do shit in the second half.
>I love the second form or new robot they get along the series.
In other mecha series I mean, not in Layzner.
You're confusing the New Layzner from the OVA (which is nearly identical save for extra thrusters) and the transformable Mk II that never got used outside of games.
Looks like a Macross robot.
It turns into a plane. In universe you could say it's inspired by the Grados Solomco.
The real V-Max was carbon monoxide poisoning.
http://www.alpena.co.jp/JEDPA/20160210/20160210d.html
Tim Eldred has some of this on his website too.
https://timeldred.com/layzner/
I think a problem with the show is how the Layzner itself is both the lynchpin in humanity's strength against Grados (a la the Gundam) but is also this barely controlled demon for the first half and Eiji's helpful robot buddy in the second. And the show took too long in making the Doll which wasn't much of an MP Layzner (and had a dumb looking gimmick).
The thing what I didn't like about the Doll is the double-barreled lasered rifle in your pic. It can only be used on ground.
They never remade Buldy or Baybul.
They're incredibly useful in the story in the game (SRW J) but they barely fight or do anything in the second half.
Rowan's treason was pretty cool and a nice plot point but the fact that Arthur did all that stuff and no one caught that he was working as a spy is pretty dumb.
The SPT model they use in the last episode and the 3rd OVA is so generic that I did not care at all for it.
When I say stuff like this it may sound like I don't like the anime but the first half was so incredibly good that is sad that they ignored everything in the second half and went full Eiji of the North Star.
>When I say stuff like this it may sound like I don't like the anime but the first half was so incredibly good that is sad that they ignored everything in the second half and went full Eiji of the North Star.
This bothered me more than it should have because the show immediately had an identity crisis. Suddenly all these stakes presented by the Gradosians no longer seemed to matter and the mecha that had, up to this point, felt original and characteristic of the show, now felt really out of place.
I love that these cackling homicidal weirdoes still have to submit reports and do clerical work like its the first half of the series.
This is a good point. What bothers me is not the themes of both halves but how the director tied them together.
The first half "space messiah trying to stop the end of the human race" is great, and how Eiji is incredibly naive in dealing with themes of war and how races view "aliens" or people from different planets. The whole gimmick of his father being the first human in space is good, Gale's change of heart and the secret behind Grados could be also game-changing and a cool plot twist.
Starts as a cool sci-fi based on reality and real logic and problems like maintenance and energy consumption of mechas, with the MC being really powerless against his enemies except for when the machine takes over to protect his life.
The second half actually is a cool premise too, A post-world collapse with the remaining humans trying to take the world back with the help of one of the Aliens that had a change of heart and trying to do what's right, after seeing how humanity suffered all these years. We could have "Madmax" style mechas and even bring back Julia's Bloodkaiser which was at the bottom of the ocean.
But as a direct continuation, this doesn't work at all. We have a bunch of cool plots in the first half that got half-assed or went nowhere.
- Julia and the Bloodkaiser
- The story of Eiji's father
- The Secret of Grados
- Buldy and Baybul
- The rest of the commanders in Grados conquering Ship
- The blind soldier
I feel like the second half tried to innovate, but they end up ignoring most of the first half and creating a bunch of new points that don't have time to go anywhere interesting.
(Captcha: *V*MAX)
Gosterro coming back after a pretty decisive and memorable death also undid a lot of what the first half of the show established and made those prior events pointless. One of the biggest issues I take with the second half is just how generic it all becomes; every aspect of the invasion and the dystopia is lifted straight from other sources. The setting changing from Mars and space to New York doesn't feel like a suitable continuation in any way, it instead feels restrictive and just serves to mimic more easily action films coming out at the time. We then also have the Layzner still flying around, with characters who look more at home in Hokuto No Ken 2 (not even 1) than they do in this, even the new mecha feel off in comparison. Eiji returns, but as a double denim martial arts warrior who shows up in rags like Kenshiro. I'm not saying this is not cool, but why this show? This mould Eiji is suddenly in feels like it should be in another show entirely. In short, the cohesion of the first half is just completely thrown out of the window, and these returning characters are basically into a completely different setting.
>double denim martial arts warrior
I laughed more than I should have. V-Denim hatsudou!
The Doll can still skate without the backpack which makes the whole gimmick seem even more pointless.
I meant for when a Doll has to fight in the air. Yes, Dolls can fly. That's how that resistance contingent reached Nazca.
You would think they could just use the cannon whenever even if it has that support arm going between their legs. The Dtol had a similar backpack wheel gimmick but they had normal Lasered rifles.
And why couldn't the resistance simply build those? They grabbed a Dtol and a Braver to use when they built the Doll.
>There are some books that serve as sequels though.
There are?
They're mention on the Japanese Wikipedia page. One is called 蒼き流星SPTレイズナー 蒼き流星の行方
There's also a novelization of the OVA called 小説 青き流星SPTレイズナー ―刻印2000―
Anywhere I can find them in English?
I am unaware if they specifically mentioned the Doll can only use its gun one way. I think they just botched the gimmick when trying to introduce a new robot. Dragonar I think handle the MP version of the main robots well even if the Dragoons jobbed outside of that opening montage they used for the latter part of the series.
This show was so cool, really wish there were more mechs that did the "the main character lost the world is fricked but there may still be a chance trope", that or just fist of the northstar but with mechs