Can anyone defend the "cartoon characters need to be voiced by actors of the same race" paradigm
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Can anyone defend the "cartoon characters need to be voiced by actors of the same race" paradigm
Can anyone defend the "cartoon characters need to be voiced by actors of the same race" paradigm
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Thalidomide Vintage Ad Shirt $22.14 |
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*only applies if the character is black and the VA isn't
no, only applies if the character is nonwhite and the voice actor is different from the character (an asian voicing a black person would still be discouraged)
But we had a black person voicing an asian for years
What I find funny is that Phil Lamar supported this whole "characters need to be played by actors of the same race" thing after he voiced a Japanese character with a stereotypical accent for over a decade.
He flat-out said "it's because black people have been through stuff"
and everyone praised him for being so reasonable and even-handed on the issue. fricking twat.
Nice of the American to imply that it’s okay for him to “take a voice away” from a Japanese actor. Americans never caused the Japanese to “go through stuff”
Samurai Jack. The reverse isn't.
They provide cover and are used for an endorsement of the racist writing.
>Apu can't be a racist stereotype if an Indian was voicing him.
That's the only reason it's done.
The character has to have a racial element to them
For example black guy Stalker in GI Joe can be voiced by a white guy because he's just a solider who happens to be black, but Roadblock a black guy who raps all of his dialog should be voiced by a black gut because the writers are saying something about black people.
>but Roadblock a black guy who raps all of his dialog should be voiced by a black gut because the writers are saying something about black people.
Why though
You can have black people voice white actors and it’s ok like hunter from the owlhouse. Before you cry elf they call willow Asian so hunter is white bite me.
>(an asian voicing a black person would still be discouraged)
Phil Lamar was trying to convince everyone him voicing an Asian character "didn't count"
Happened with Apu though.
Pisses me off so much because Phil LaMarr is black and I'd want no other English voice for Samurai Jack.
Luckily Phil's got you covered, because he gave black people permission to voice whoever they want.
I would much rather have Phil lamar voice Jack than say Aquafina. It's unfortunate about his racist position.
I'll say he used to sound similar to the original VA in the early episodes he did, but now he sounds like shit, I dunno if this is a voice direction problem and they told him "Sound more black" or some shit, the original was far better of course
You know, I can see them actually telling him "sound more black", it's hilarious.
Not a problem anymore.
she's half hispanic. apparently?
Yet, she's white as Wonder Bread.
do you think it's a coincidence they cast a white actress with hispanic heritage?
Mexican TV is whiter than American TV
Yeah totally foo, we so much whiter than those pinche gringos carnal
He said TV, not real life.
So is India TV.
Mexicans have 66 percent European dna on average, half of mexicans look white and mexicans in richer more urbanized area are whiter
nobody can defend it, it puts race over talent. back to good old fashion segregation wait why are we mad about this again?
Because it's one-way segregation.
I don't care what the rules are as long as they're applied equally, but that's not what's being asked for.
I wonder if the studios where black VA voice black characters have a COLORED ONLY sign on the door.
voicing for a character of a different race implies, but does not necessitate, a racial impression. those are pretty out of vogue, so it's easier to not even risk the pr issue at this point.
Exactly. It's the same as anyone stupid "race" related decision made by big entertainment. Doing the safest things so they don't risk ANY potential upset, no matter how small the chance. George Floyd and the reactions around it, caused a huge upset in culture.
It's an imaginary social issue made up by slacktivists and perpetuated by opportunists who see it as an opportunity to get more work without having to improve their acting skills.
It's weird to me how in the USA blacks have their own accent, ebonics is weird. In my country there are very few blacks but they sound like anyone else from my country
Segregation policies just wurk
You don't understand how accents work
Only as a personal choice, not a policy. If a white voice actor decides to give up a role to a minority because it lets them sniff their own farts and feel good about themselves, go for it.
I know americans can probably only think in colors, but what do these wokes say about nationalities and cultures? Is a South African, or worse, a black US VA allowed to voice an Ethiopian character? Are there even enough actual immigrants from Africa and Europe in the US for them to have respective VAs? Are there Sebian VAs in the US?
Or are these people still the same morons that consider an Iranian the same as an Arab and a Russian the same as a Bosnian? If so, why? Even /misc/tards are aware of the differences.
I wonder if they're doing the difference has anything to do with the racism and believe it one is superior to the other because it both of those things it's very creatively so identity has a lot to do with what we would call racism against others. Also why didn't you use Russian and ukrainians?
>Also why didn't you use Russian and ukrainians?
Works too, but a large part of Ukrainians and Russians from certain regions are partly Russian and vice versa, so at least ethnically and culturally they are quite close. I don't even expect a sheltered LA woman to understand ethnicities and nationalities, even less do I expect them to understand the effects of history and wars. They are probably the same people that claim that nationalism and racism against white people didn't exist because they aren't aware of white Polish people getting hated or killed by other whites. They only know about "white, black, asian" and US-only issues, probably not even that.
They are COMPLETE frickheads, and go mostly by who screams the most.
>South African voicing black ethiopian
NO.
>Black US VA voicing black ethiopian
YES.
>Chinese voicing Japanese
YES. TMNT mutant madness w. Jackie Chan.
>Korean voicing Japanese
YES.
>Japanese voicing Chinese or Korean
No, but they won't say that out loud.
>Are there even enough actual immigrants from Africa and Europe in the US for them to have respective VAs?
Yes, but they don't actually give a frick about using them.
>Serbian voice actors
They have them, but they don't bother using them. They will use some bum off the beach as much as them. You'd be lucky for them to get slavs or russians.
>Or are these people still the same morons that consider an Iranian the same as an Arab
They sometimes use germans and somalis as iranians. I don't think you understand how uncaring and stupid it gets.
> and a Russian the same as a Bosnian?
They are WORSE. They have no idea what the frick a Bosnian is. They are likely to use a Scottish person or a Swiss or a New Yorker as a Bosian.
> If so, why?
American racial politics drives this bus.
>Even /misc/tards are aware of the differences.
And these people are learning their shit from Stephen Universe PSAs.
The best I could do is play devil's advocate.
Blackrock and Vanguard will monetarily punish you if you don't do racial casting.
I like it because it makes America even more laughable.
It doesn’t really work as a 1:1 solution for literally every role but the general idea is that the voice acting industry is well known for being insular and nepotistic, with a cadre of well known voice actors snatching up a good chunk of lucrative roles without leaving much for up and coming VAs, especially those whose background and experiences might be a better match for the role. Trying to diversify the amount of working talent in the industry is generally a good direction to go in, even if it leads to controversial recasts like the whole thing with Apu from Simpsons or Cleveland from Family Guy. It is absolutely true however that trying to cast a person that more accurately shares a character’s background, whether it be ethnic, religious, or orientation-wise can lead to passing over a VA that is better suited for the role. So you have a balance that needs to be struck, and it’s not easy. Give more people more chances to make it into an industry that is famous for being insular and difficult to break into, without getting rid of performances that people obviously loved and contributed to the success of a particular show or movie. There’s obviously going to be casualties, but the question remains, do you want characters to be voiced by the same stable of about a dozen VAs for the foreseeable future until they start dying or do you take a chance on new voices that aren’t proven yet at the risk of pissing off fans?
>do you want characters to be voiced by the same stable of about a dozen VAs for the foreseeable future until they start dying or do you take a chance on new voices that aren’t proven yet at the risk of pissing off fans?
Why not hire new blood based on talent instead of demographics, like a real industry?
Because casting for acting roles will inevitably result in looking at demographics. It’s impossible to avoid. Casting directors will always look for talent but they’ll look for talent within particular demographics, because the point of casting is to bring the character to life in a way that appeals to the audience, and most audience members will want a character played by someone that can look or sound believable in the role, someone that doesn’t take you out of the experience of whatever media you’re consuming.
Not to mention, going solely off talent will more likely than not bring you to the same stable of voice actors that already dominate the industry because their talent is vouched for by decades of experience.
>Because casting for acting roles will inevitably result in looking at demographics.
>but they’ll look for talent within particular demographics
What?
The whole point of voice acting is that you DON'T need to take demographics into account, anyone can voice any character so long as they give you the voice you're looking for that fits whatever character they're voicing.
Not true at all. Casting directors have a wider net to get talent from in voice casting but it is not a complete free for all. Vast majority of the time you’ll end up with actors that match their character’s gender for obvious reasons, unless it’s a woman playing a small boy, since they have an easier time getting that voice down than an adult man. Characters that are old are more often than not played by older actors. Mako Iwamatsu was perfect as Iroh for that reason, and while his replacement is a white guy named Greg Baldwin, it is still an older man with a grizzled voice.
Saying that the point of voice acting is that you don’t have to look at demographics is just patently false. Billy West is an extremely talented voice actor, but he can’t play Leela.
>Vast majority of the time you’ll end up with actors that match their character’s gender for obvious reasons, unless it’s a woman playing a small boy
Or a woman voicing a high-pitched male. (More anime than I can think of, but a current example being Mushoku Tensei)
Or a man voicing a woman as a joke (Bob's Burgers)
>Billy West is an extremely talented voice actor, but he can’t play Leela.
If he had the range to hit and maintain her voice, he absolutely could.
But he doesn't, so he can't.
This isn't a function of demographics, it's a function of VA ability, VAs can only do certain voices based on their own voice and range, obviously if there's a voice needed for a character and a certain VA can't DO that voice, they don't get the role.
>This isn't a function of demographics, it's a function of VA ability
What you’re missing is that the demographic the VA belongs to plays a very important role in defining the ability they have, and casting directors will obviously take that into account.
>What you’re missing is that the demographic the VA belongs to plays a very important role in defining the ability they have
But not the only defining aspect, again, there are plenty of examples of female characters voiced by dudes (Dr. Girlfriend from Venture Bros is another great example) and male characters voiced by women (Kamikatsu being another anime example).
The most important aspect of any VA is "can they do the voice I want how I want it?"
That's it, and that's all that should matter.
>Dr. Girlfiriend from Venture Bros is a great example
That’s a terrible example because the joke is explicitly that she sounds like a grown adult man. If a woman played Dr. Girlfriend and sounded like that you would be making a point.
>The most important aspect of any VA is "can they do the voice I want how I want it?"
Yes, and what do you think are some of the first steps a casting director might take to find actors that can do the voice how they want it to sound? Looking. At. Demographics. There’s simply no getting around it, and pretending otherwise is useless. Do you think Andrea Romano was just letting a bunch of random women voice actors come in to try out for Bruce Wayne? No, she looked for male voice actors that could reasonably fit the role. And guess who she found? A tall white guy with a deep authoritative voice named Kevin Conroy.
>That’s a terrible example because the joke is explicitly that she sounds like a grown adult man.
Right, and that's the voice the casting director wanted you idiot, that's the point.
The whole joke was that she didn't sound like a woman, the show even pokes fun at that with multiple characters thinking she was a troony.
>Yes, and what do you think are some of the first steps a casting director might take to find actors that can do the voice how they want it to sound? Looking. At. Demographics.
Well no, the whole point of a casting call is to reach out and have auditions and pick whose voice fits best for a character.
>Do you think Andrea Romano was just letting a bunch of random women voice actors come in to try out for Bruce Wayne?
Right, and that's because women don't have deep commanding male-sounding voices, so like I said, this is a function of VA ability, not demographics.
If there was a woman out there who had a voice as deep as Kevin Conroy and could imitate his voice do you think they'd choose a man with a much higher-pitched voice as a replacement instead of her?
If demographics were all that mattered, there would be no instances of women voicing little boys or men, they voice little boys because they're the ones who can feasibly sound like a 7 year old boy and have it be believable, for men that's much harder, and as such men get cast less for those roles, not because they're male, but because their voices don't fit.
>Right, and that's the voice the casting director wanted you idiot, that's the point. The whole joke was that she didn't sound like a woman
Yes, which is why they cast a man. I feel like you’re doing a bit or are genuinely misunderstanding what I’m saying. I’m not saying that looking at demographics meant they needed to cast a woman as Dr. Girlfriend, I’m saying they went for a man because the voice is supposed to sound like a man. If Adventure Time has some huge ripped guy sounding like a little kid, they’ll usually go for a little kid to voice him. That’s what looking at demographics means.
> Right, and that's because women don't have deep commanding male-sounding voices, so like I said, this is a function of VA ability, not demographics.
Okay this HAS to be bait.
>That’s what looking at demographics means.
But again, that has to do with what the VA is capable of.
For example, if they had two voice actors who are young kids, but one starts going through puberty, they replace them because the voice no longer fits, even though demographically they match.
> For example, if they had two voice actors who are young kids, but one starts going through puberty, they replace them because the voice no longer fits, even though demographically they match.
If the demographic is “pre-pubescent child” then demographically the actor does not match, which is why they are replaced. Genuinely, you’re making my arguments for me.
>If the demographic is “pre-pubescent child” then demographically the actor does not match
But again, we know that's irrelevant because they constantly hire adult women to voice pre-pubescent children, largely because most real life pre-pubescent children are bad voice actors.
So again, this all boils down to VA ability.
>So again, this all boils down to VA ability.
Autistic purism
Motherfricker if you don’t think the fact that adult women are often cast as young boys in cartoons isn’t demographically driven I don’t know what to tell you. It’s like you can identify the pieces of the puzzle but you keep putting them in wrong.
>Motherfricker if you don’t think the fact that adult women are often cast as young boys in cartoons isn’t demographically driven I don’t know what to tell you.
Again, it's driven by VA ability, since women have higher pitched voices that more closely match that of a little boy.
Hence why they don't cast deep-voiced sultry-sounding women as young boys.
>Again, it's driven by VA ability, since women have higher pitched voices that more closely match that of a little boy.
>Hence why they don't cast deep-voiced sultry-sounding women as young boys.
You are literally making my arguments for me and then identifying the wrong common denominator.
The point is that your argument is incorrect, as a sultry woman and a woman with a more high-pitched voice are both the same demographic (female) and by your logic if they were casting demographically there would be no difference between these two women for a director.
That's not the case, they cast based on VA ability and who fits the voice closer.
Let's put it this way, say you have an audition with 5 white females all auditioning for the same role.
How does a casting director choose a suitable voice demographically in this instance?
Oh my fricking god do you genuinely believe I’m arguing demographics are the only important aspect of casting
I’m going to quote myself here so you can understand:
>Casting directors will always look for talent but they’ll look for talent within particular demographics, because the point of casting is to bring the character to life in a way that appeals to the audience, and most audience members will want a character played by someone that can look or sound believable in the role, someone that doesn’t take you out of the experience of whatever media you’re consuming.
That’s not even getting into your weird implication that all women are part of the same demographic which is just hilariously false
The answer to your question though is that the casting director has already looked at demographics by lining up 5 white females for the role, now said director will narrow it down by ear and hearing which actor fits the role the best
So then you agree that what matters most is VA talent, not demographics.
If a VA fits the voice a casting director wants more than some other VA who fits better demographically, it goes without saying that the one with the more fitting voice should get the role.
Why are you even arguing with me to begin with then?
Because your original point is as follows
>The whole point of voice acting is that you DON'T need to take demographics into account, anyone can voice any character so long as they give you the voice you're looking for that fits whatever character they're voicing.
And my point is that no, demographics still matter and will always matter for casting no matter if it’s solely for voice or for physical roles. And to be clear, it is not always the case that the demographic and actor belongs to is the same demographic that the character belongs to, and yet the actor’s demo will be the one sought out by th casting director, like the example of casting women for playing young boys. It’s still a process defined by demos, but not the same ones as the character. Individual talent and ability gets an actor the role but the demographic they belong to will most of the time define which doors will actually open for them.
This is not hard
If you disagree with any of this please let me know
I have not changed my argument at any point, so my questions to you are why are you still fricking arguing with me and what is your address so I can mail you a pipe bomb
>And my point is that no, demographics still matter
But they don't, what matters is the voice.
Again, that's the whole point of voice acting.
You can say it as many times as you want but you’ve already conceded the point multiple times in trying to disprove it. A voice does not exist in a vacuum, it belongs to someone who belongs to a demographic which heavily influences what that voice sounds like. Pretending those demos don’t matter is how you get fired as a casting director.
>A voice does not exist in a vacuum, it belongs to someone who belongs to a demographic which heavily influences what that voice sounds like.
I'm sorry, are you going full "black voice" on me?
No, that's stupid, anyone of any demographic can play any character, so long as their voice fits what's asked of them.
No you fricking idiot, I’m telling you casting call sheets list demographics being searched for by the casting director for a reason and they have done so long before diversity quotas were in vogue, and this remains the same for both physical acting and voice acting. Does voice acting have lessened restrictions due to the non-visual nature of the art? Yes! But lessened restrictions are not no restrictions.
So then you agree that the demographic of the voice actor doesn't matter so long as their voice fits what's requested.
No, I’m agreeing that the vast majority of voice castings are done with certain demographics in mind before narrowing the choices down to a single actor that fits what is requested of the voice.
But at the end of the day the demographic isn't what matters, it's the voice/talent.
If 4 women and 1 men audition and the casting director thinks the man's voice fits most for a female character, then it should go without saying that the man will get the job if he fits the most.
No actually at the end of the day both of those things matter but it’s talent/ability that defines the final choice. Demographics are important because it allows casting directors to narrow down choices from the absurd variety of people that might want a job to the people that could fit the role.
You’re doing this dumb rhetorical device where you’re trying to summarize my argument as one thing being the end all be all of importance and I’m trying to tell you that the real world is nuanced and complicated and that voice acting has a lot of different factors going into it.
>Demographics are important because it allows casting directors to narrow down choices from the absurd variety of people that might want a job to the people that could fit the role.
Which is only useful for narrowing, not for the final product and who has the most fitting voice.
Which makes it irrelevant to my argument of "the demographic doesn't matter, only the voice."
>Which is only useful for narrowing, not for the final product and who has the most fitting voice.
Do you genuinely think narrowing down your list of potential voice actors is not useful for the final product and finding the most fitting voice
Are you reading what you’re writing here
>Do you genuinely think narrowing down your list of potential voice actors is not useful for the final product and finding the most fitting voice
Depends on how it's done.
Doing so based on demographics and not just based on the most fitting submissions or which VA you think has the most fitting voice for a character would be stupid.
>Doing so based on demographics and not just based on the most fitting submissions or which VA you think has the most fitting voice for a character would be stupid.
So far what I’ve gotten from this conversation is that you have no idea how casting is done because you’d realize that VA submissions are already received after being narrowed down by demographic BECAUSE THE DESIRED DEMO IS LISTED ON THE CASTING CALL
Look at this job posting. What do you see? Male, aged 25-45 who speaks North American English. That’s three separate demos you just narrowed it down by.
I don't see your point.
It's narrowed based on the submissions they've received, which is literally what I argued for.
My point is that demos are obviously important to casting directors because if they weren’t, they would not have listed those three specific demographics on the call sheet.
But they're not important to the actual character's voice.
Which was my point.
The demographics of the VA isn't what matters, it's their voice.
But they are, because if they weren’t they wouldn’t be included on the casting sheet.
Unfortunately that's not really the case, sometimes casting directors will go out of their way to cast for reasons beyond actual actor talent and how well they fit the character.
Much like how in actual acting, a hot woman who sucks at acting can get cast based on how well she sucks dick, similar things can also happen with voice acting.
Casting directors are not infallible.
Now you’re wasting trips to argue something that’s inconsequential, which is that casting directors are not perfect. No one would argue that they are.
Look we’ve been arguing in circles so all I want from you to is to disprove this argument: if demographics were not an important part of casting voice actors, productions would leave the desired demo of the roll off the call sheet. Since for most roles they leave it on, clearly demos are important.
Demographics aren't important to the actual character's voice.
The call sheet is irrelevant since that's done at the behest of the casting director who may or may not be casting based on what's best for the character, and nowadays often doesn't.
>and nowadays often doesn’t
If this were the case then demographics included in casting calls would be a recent phenomenon, but it is nearly as old as voice acting itself.
Right, and casting directors have been casting for reasons besides talent or how well someone fits since casting directors have been a thing.
The casting couch dates back to antiquity after all.
Yeah dude, demographics always asked that the actor match the part. It's been that way since the dawn of performance entertainment. That's why casting done in Shakespear's time was all... wait...
Oh man you might want to reconsider before trying to use Shakespeare as your argument. Might as well use fricking Kabuki or Ancient Greek theater.
a white guy can do a black voice more convincingly than a grown man can do a young boy voice
Sex discrimination isn't really happening via casting. If at all, it happens from more animation projects being male-focused and having more guy characters. It is fine for men and women to voice a character that is the opposite sex because they are hardly taking an opportunity from someone else. I would argue that Phil LaMarr voicing Samurai Jack is actually a perfect example of a minority having a perfect opportunity stolen from them (albeit from another minority).
>Women typically sound different than guys
>Therefore, I can differentiate a black dude's voice from a white dude!
Shut up you non-sequitur moron. Nobody knew or cared that Darth Vader was voiced by a black dude.
Damn you really took that strawman down, hell yeah man.
>S-S-STRAWMAN!
That's literally your argument you dumb homosexual. You're literally arguing that the dEmOgRaPhIcS of a voice will drift towards having a matching race to the character, using female-v-male characters as an example, which implies that races have a distinct "sound" from the inevitability of the situation according to you.
It's not my fault that putting the pieces without going off on seven hundred unrelated examples points out the flaw in your logic, just stop being a pretentious moronic. That or take your shit back2Reddit.
No you dumb fricking butthole, my point is that increasing diversity in the VA industry is good and that audience members will resonate with a voice actor that looks like/sounds like the character they portray. Does that mean that a black guy will always have to voice a black guy in every situation? No! But is an old Asian man more likely to sound believable as an old Asian man to audiences compared to a young white guy? Probably!
I’m not doing some race essentialism bullshit on people’s voices. And also, it is genuinely fricking rich of you to use James Earl Jones for an example as Darth Vader, a guy that until Empire we didn’t know what race he was.
>my point is that increasing diversity in the VA industry is good
There it is.
Yes, there it is. The same fricking point I made at the beginning of the thread. Here, let me even restate what I said on my first post for you.
>So you have a balance that needs to be struck, and it’s not easy. Give more people more chances to make it into an industry that is famous for being insular and difficult to break into, without getting rid of performances that people obviously loved and contributed to the success of a particular show or movie. There’s obviously going to be casualties, but the question remains, do you want characters to be voiced by the same stable of about a dozen VAs for the foreseeable future until they start dying or do you take a chance on new voices that aren’t proven yet at the risk of pissing off fans?
I think most people just want good VAs in the VA industry.
Japan's VA industry isn't diverse at all and they still produce far better VAs than America does.
>they still produce far better VAs than America does.
Bro, have you heard the average American VA?
They hire morons from fricking Newgrounds to voice shit nowadays, morons who haven't seen an improvement in their VA capabilities since fricking 2012.
Hell, nowadays they give voice roles to literal e-celebs who got big fricking reading articles word-for-word for morons in a monotonous droning voice.
The average american VA is dudes like Steve Blum and Troy Baker, motherfrickers who are in literally everything which causes people to complain how insular the industry is.
>The average american VA is dudes like Steve Blum and Troy Baker
>The average American VA is [insert literal millionaires here]
Are you fricking moronic?
Do you think the average American VA is dudes like Sun Wong Cho and Yong Yea? The guys who are explicitly notable for starting on Youtube and actually making the jump to voice acting, something that's difficult to do to say the least?
>Do you think the average American VA is dudes like Sun Wong Cho and Yong Yea?
I think the average American VA is a no-name who's kind of shit at what they do and gets by on small gigs.
Not literal millionaires who've been in the industry for decades, that's like calling fricking Will Smith the average actor.
I reiterate, are you fricking moronic?
>a guy that until Empire we didn’t know what race he was.
You say that like that's a long time, that was only the 2nd movie in the series.
How does that change anything I just said. Vader did not have a “race” when James Earl Jones was cast. He was completely encased in black armor. The demographic of his race did not matter. The demographic of his gender did, because they needed someone with a deep, sonorous, authoritative voice.
>The demographic of his race did not matter
Weird... it's... like... everyone yelling at you thinks the same thing about voice work... imagine that.
>my point is
Save the backpedalling you dumb homosexual.
>that increasing diversity in the VA industry is good
Take your platitude and shove it.
>and that audience members will resonate with a voice actor that looks like/sounds like the character they portray.
Here's where I take a problem with your insidious backpedaling. That's been the other anon's entire point, not yours. YOUR argument is that achieving this is done entirely through casting that represents the race/gender of the character being played.
This EXACTLY implies the "sTrAwMaN" I pointed out, and goes entirely against your point in
, where you said, and I'll quote: "going solely off talent will more likely than not bring you to the same stable of voice actors that already dominate the industry because their talent is vouched for by decades of experience..."
Where you drew a clear divide between "diverse acting" and "voice talent."
>[Non-argument "If By Whiskey" rambling]
have a nice day.
>I’m not doing some race essentialism bullshit on people’s voices
That is the unstated conclusion of everything you've been saying here, you dishonest, backpedalling homosexual.
>And also, it is genuinely fricking rich of you to use James Earl Jones for an example as Darth Vader, a guy that until Empire we didn’t know what race he was.
"Uh, sweetie, we only knew the character's race for 2/3 of the original trilogy. Did you stop to consider that!?!"
>Take your platitude and shove it.
I will, directly down your throat in the hopes that you choke on it.
>Here's where I take a problem with your insidious backpedaling. That's been the other anon's entire point, not yours. YOUR argument is that achieving this is done entirely through casting that represents the race/gender of the character being played.
That has never been my fricking argument and the fact that you think that shows you have shit reading comprehension. Quoting myself again: Casting directors will always look for talent but they’ll look for talent within particular demographics, because the point of casting is to bring the character to life in a way that appeals to the audience, and most audience members will want a character played by someone that can look or sound believable in the role, someone that doesn’t take you out of the experience of whatever media you’re consuming.
>Where you drew a clear divide between "diverse acting" and "voice talent."
This is pure bullshit, voice talent is honed over years of practice and work that new players in the industry simply don't have. You're looking for the right voice, not the most talented voice. Is Billy West more talented a voice actor than Katey Sagal? Given his resume, probably, but he's not right for the role of Leela over her. That's what I'm saying when you go by talent alone. The most skilled people might not be the right people for the job, and one of the best ways to find the right person for the job is to narrow down the demographics of who can try out for the role.
>That is the unstated conclusion of everything you've been saying here, you dishonest, backpedalling homosexual.
No it fricking isn't, if you go by race essentialism you'll start applying race to characters that don't require it. Some characters might need it! Some characters don't!
Genuinely, you might be too stupid to live.
>That has never been my fricking argument and the fact that you think that shows you have
...A memory that lasts longer than 30 seconds, hence I could quote you earlier, moron.
>Casting directors will always look for talent but they’ll look for talent within particular demographics
...And yet somehow saying "you are arguing that casting should be done with regards to race, and that you argue this is a good thing" is a StRaWmAn. Okay. Sure. Whatever's convenient at the moment I guess.
>voice talent is honed over years of practice and work that new players in the industry simply don't have
That is literally no different than any other job you braindead mong. The other anon already said the problem with your shit here, but I'll say it in fewer words: at a certain point new blood MUST be introduced.
>bIlLy WeSt aNd kAtEy sAgAl
Shut the frick up. God, this example is so fricking stupid. Is your big gameplan here to keep harping about Katey Sagal as if she looks like Leela? Because I'm just going to say it: you're outright moronic if you think they look alike outside of not being fat and also having a rack. Their gender and being Caucasian is pretty much the only thing they have in common. Same shit could be said about Fry. At least with Futurama you could have thrown out Lauren Tom, but that would probably involve knowing a little more than "jack shit" about the industry outside of bullshitting from r/cartoons or wherever the frick you came from, and would get you laughed at from anons posting her Teen Titans characters.
>No it fricking isn't
Yes it is. Pretending like you haven't been CONSTANTLY trying to drag voice actor/actress race into it doesn't negate that you kept harping on about it.
It's sorry it's inconvenient to you that people have a very basic memory.
>too stupid to live.
Might have more punch if you weren't replying to a post telling you to have a nice day. Are you so stupid that you're trying to copy mudslings now?
>..A memory that lasts longer than 30 seconds, hence I could quote you earlier, moron.
Apparently it didn't come with the ability to understand what you quoted.
>And yet somehow saying "you are arguing that casting should be done with regards to race, and that you argue this is a good thing" is a StRaWmAn. Okay. Sure. Whatever's convenient at the moment I guess.
Here, let me break it down for you: your strawman is as follows
>Women typically sound different than guys
>Therefore, I can differentiate a black dude's voice from a white dude!
Women do typically sound different from guys! That is a thing I argued. "I can differentiate a black dude's voice from a white dude" is a complete non-sequitur and you should genuinely be embarrassed you posted it.
>Is your big gameplan here to keep harping about Katey Sagal as if she looks like Leela?
No, you fricking dumbass! My argument is that Katey Sagal belongs to the same demographic that Leela does, being a woman, and that makes her a much better option than Billy West even though he might be more "talented"!
>At least with Futurama you could have thrown out Lauren Tom, but that would probably involve knowing a little more than "jack shit" about the industry outside of bullshitting from r/cartoons or wherever the frick you came from, and would get you laughed at from anons posting her Teen Titans characters.
Oh yeah, bring out Lauren Tom, maybe we should take a look at her filmography in voice acting! Fricking notice anything about the characters she voices?
>Yes it is. Pretending like you haven't been CONSTANTLY trying to drag voice actor/actress race into it doesn't negate that you kept harping on about it.
What I'm harping on about is not that every single character in a show needs to have a 1:1 recreation in their voice actor, but that VAs with similar demos to their characters will often be good fits.
Also, quit the ZoOMeR talk, shit's embarrassing.
>audience members will resonate with a voice actor that looks like the character they portray
Since when?
Gee I don't know Walt, maybe ask yourself why you casted this woman who looks like Snow White to voice Snow White. Fricking dumbass.
that's not walt disney, it's a famous and beloved cartoon voice actor who looks nothing like any of his characters. Nobody has ever cared what the voice actor looks like. The best voice over artists can do many physically different characters -- including many ethnicities, until recently
This fricking Redditard is seriously trying to argue "Diversity is our strength because Leela in Futurama wasn't voiced by Fry's Voice Actor." Don't expect him to know anything.
Genuinely, my bad for confusing Blanc with Walt Disney. But also, you can't look like a rabbit, or a duck, or a coyote, or a roadrunner, or a pig. One of the only recurring characters in Looney Tunes, Elmer Fudd, did in fact bear a passing resemblance to Mel though.
I'm going to ignore that Blanc voiced a lot more characters than that.
How exactly does he look like Elmer Fudd?
>how does a round faced white guy with a big forehead look like Elmer Fudd
But seriously man, most of the recurring human characters in Looney Tunes were white. That's not some sort of criticism, it is what it is. All other characters were wacky animals that he also voiced in their entirety. Demographics in this case weren't truly important because a rabbit or duck or roadrunner doesn't sound like any particular person.
If a black guy started voicing Elmer Fudd would that make you like the show less?
Differentanon, but Blanc died years ago? He might have been voiced by a black guy and I probably wouldn't have noticed. I am absolutely sure black people have voiced non black characters, and did a fricking stonking job about it.
I'm sure they did (Phil LaMarr comes to mind). That anon is claiming that it's better if the voice actor looks like the character. I should have asked him how he'd feel if Elmer Fudd was played by a guy with hair.
I'm the anon you're referring to, and what I'm saying is not specifically that it's always better that a voice actor looks like a character, but that voice actors that share similar backgrounds to characters that have explicitly ethnic accents and voices are usually better suited to playing the character. And that's not always the case, mind you. But more often than not it is.
Do you think it's better that Cleveland Brown is now voiced by a black man?
I think it's better that he's voiced by a black man who is trying to break into the industry and put in the work through hours of footage of cartoon impressions on Youtube. If it was like frickin Kevin Michael Richardson or Phil Lamarr I think it'd be more of the same merry-go-round of friends hiring friends, even if it was more politically correct. The point is to get new people in the industry, not give all the black roles to the same four black people that managed to cement themselves.
Can't argue that it's always good for a new voice actor being given a good opportunity, but I still don't see how being black has anything to do with it. It also seems that the general "no cross-racial voicing" policy limits opportunities instead of expanding them
>It also seems that the general "no cross-racial voicing" policy limits opportunities instead of expanding them
That would be true if that was the rule they were going with, but it's not since it's considered super kosher for anyone to voice a white or asian (unless they're white) character.
Don't try to make it make sense.
It's more a matter of trying to make up for previous years of not giving a shit. People still love ATLA but there's like three asian people in that cast and all the other characters, who are supposed to be asian, are voiced by white people.
>It's more a matter of trying to make up for previous years of not giving a shit.
Frick off moron. I guess you're at least being honest that it's literally revenge racism, but go frick yourself for real.
>I guess you're at least being honest that it's literally revenge racism, but go frick yourself for real.
It's funny because someone brought up the MLK civil rights ideology earlier in this thread as an example of the desire to be colorblind but MLK explicitly advocated for affirmative action-type policies to make up for previous decades of either negligence or outright malice.
That fact that some dude who got no-scoped 50 years ago was mad at white people because they kept lynching people doesn't mean frick all to me.
Racism is racism you moronic homosexual.
>It's funny because someone brought up the MLK civil rights ideology earlier in this thread as an example of the desire to be colorblind but MLK explicitly advocated for affirmative action-type policies to make up for previous decades of either negligence or outright malice.
Missed nuance there. Jessie Jackson era, that's post MLK, and pre Anti Racisim actually held both ideas. The long term objective being a colorblind world. And different forms of affirmative action, like say funding a talent expo or special training programs in underrepresented areas. Very different than bringing back segregation. So, an example of the older ideal, would be to have every race in the VA room. But not necessarily requiring the races to match the characters, because the race is not voice specific.
And an explicit goal is the idea of "underrepresentation" Black people are overrepresented in Hollywood, and I would bet they're overrepresented in VA now.
Anti racism absolutely rejects the idea of a colorblind world and considers the very concept racist.
Hey. My robot is asian ,and she's as real as anyone else.
>Very different than bringing back segregation.
I think equating physical segregation with wanting to have black characters be voiced by black actors is a pretty disingenuous argument.
You shoved the word "physical" in there. And you try to call my argument disingenuous?
Also, lets be precise. This isn't just wanting black charcters voiced by black actors, or even wanting more black VA's in general. This is demanding racial institutional rules so that ONLY black actors are allowed to voice black characters. And that's not even including the hypocrisy of the samurai jack situation or the obvious issue of mixed races.
This is a racist throwback.
How exactly is it disingenuous when you said bringing "back" segregation? The frick other segregation were you referring to? If you had said "instituting a new type of segregation" it's arguable but you're explicitly relying on evoking the imagery of 19th century segregation, PHYSICAL segregation.
Not him, but it’s obvious you’re trying to differentiate the two to make what’s going on now seem less shitty. When in reality it’s the same kind of logic and action that happened during segregation. Only now it’s okay because the “good guys” are the ones pushing it.
Yes, it is objectively less shitty. How are you even trying to argue that? We are talking about whether or not people should get casted outside their race in a cartoon. Get a fricking grip, you guys.
Just because it’s less shitty doesn’t mean it’s not the same, and it set a bad precedent. I mean if I were to say only whites should voice white characters, then I would be given the same kind of argument’s were seeing in this thread. Stop trying to defend this shitty double standard.
Alright I withdraw the part about you being disingenuous. You're the real deal. You also are confusing "physical segregation" with all the other segregation there is out there, and the history of segregation.
We moved away from this type of affirmative action decades ago for very good reasons. It's a regression, like bringing back the phrase colored people as people of color.
By normal, but really it means indistinguishable from a white person voicing the role. That's Jubilee. She was born in america. I would expect kitty fricking pride to be more fluent in reading chinese characters than her.
That’s what I meant, honestly them prioritizing someone Asian to play the role seems arbitrary at best and racist at worst.
>It's more a matter of trying to make up for previous years of not giving a shit.
Which is still moronic.
I'm black and it's not like casting black VAs in your shitty show is going to make me want to watch it instead of just watching more anime, where 99.99% of the VAs are Japanese.
Ah yes, they should've really dipped into the great pool of Inuit voice acting talent for that one.
I have never in my entire life met an asian person who wanted to be a voice actor, and I'd bet you haven't either.
What a weird fricking post, are you replying to yourself with stupid shit or something?
That's probably one of the easiest bets of my life, you're on.
Asian people aren't real anon
it still limits opportunities, just not equally for everybody
if they explicitly set out to cast a black actor to replace Carl, they have taken that opportunity from the majority of hungry new voice actors
>It also seems that the general "no cross-racial voicing" policy limits opportunities instead of expanding them
I think it greatly depends on context. People bring up the Simpsons a lot and I understand the point that so many of those voices are established by years of history (at this point I'm just talking about Hank Azaria) but when you have one guy who's not getting any younger voicing like a dozen different characters in a show whose network shows no signs of ever letting die, I can empathize with the argument that you should bring in new talent that might be more diverse. Especially poor fricking Julie Kavner, someone give that woman a break.
Yes, how exactly does a guy with a triangular chin, Roman nose, wide-spaced eyes, and oval head look like Elmer Fudd.
I really want to read you explain this shit beyond the basics of them both being dudes with round heads (as if one of them is a torus-shaped head or some shit).
I actually do not need to explain it beyond the basics of them both being dudes with round heads. But answer a question for me: Mel Blanc is an absolutely god tier voice actor and I would never argue otherwise, but when he was voicing humans, not anthropomorphic animals, is it not true that he was pretty much voicing exclusively white men?
>I actually do not need to explain it beyond the basics of them both being dudes with round heads
Yeah because besides them being males and not having square heads, they look nothing alike. They don't even have the same type of round head, Blanc's is more elongated and Fudd's is more stout.
>is it not true that he was pretty much voicing exclusively white men?
You literally just said that most of the recurring human characters are, by default, white men.
One of the things done for this era of cartoons is to record the voice actors doing their delivery, and then using that in the animation. If you're doing that, then the actual look of the VA actually DOES fricking matter. If we go back to that, which is a real possibility with AI powered rotisserie chickens back on the menu speeding shit up, then the actor's look will matter.
This is not the case for any of the beanmouthed mash coming from most studios.
Pic related. It's a special case. General Amaya speaks in american sign language, and they video the actresses performance. The actress actually does look quite a bit like the character, but without the meme haircut and a slightly less pointy chin.
She doesn't get VA credit under union rules though. Frickers.
>If we go back to that, which is a real possibility with AI powered rotisserie chickens back on the menu speeding shit up
Bro, it's never going to happen.
I'm not guaranteeing the direction this takes, but look at facial mocap, and virtualtubers, and the shit already done in vidiya.
Keep in mind that physical appearance is only PART of race, and the race obsessed frickheads are definitely focused on racial politics over everything else.
No one is going to accept live2D or VTuber tier animation outside of literal babies, I'm sorry bro, but it's not happening.
Especially when you're trying to compare it to the fricking 30s and 40s.
Missed the point. The question is, how fast and far and cheap is the tech going to get? And the degree of difficulty for vtuber shit is real time processing.
And they don't need to hit Snow White levels of clarity. It wouldn't take much to improve on Skibidi toilet, and minecraft blender shit.
>And they don't need to hit Snow White levels of clarity.
>If we go back to that, which is a real possibility with AI powered rotisserie chickens back on the menu speeding shit up, then the actor's look will matter.
You implied by saying "go back to that" that it'd be on par with the older techniques.
It won't, and likely never will be.
No. Go back to it as having some physical element of the VA performance in the animation.
If it lets production make faster, cheaper facial animation, I can see it happening. Maybe just the face and head.
Frick your restorative justice. On the other hand, 3 asians is more than most productions ended up using. That's about as good as Jackie Chan adventures ended up using.
>She doesn't get VA credit under union rules though. Frickers.
I mean she isn't a VA, she's a mocap actor
>One of the things done for this era of cartoons is to record the voice actors doing their delivery, and then using that in the animation.
what a terrible idea. VAs shouldn't have to be physical actors as well. Some actors get physically into their roles, others stand stock-still, you don't want to set a precedent where every VA has to be a mocap performer too.
I think the popularity of subbed anime shits all over your predicates anon.
Well, now you're getting into interesting waters. Not to get too Cinemaphile here, but a black actor was cast to play a dark-skinned character in the My Hero Academia dub. Sounded fine, pretty in tune with the Japanese take on the character. But a lot of fans of the show were furious that Funimation hired a black actor to voice a dark-skinned character, insisting that she was hired because of blood, not talent.
It's kind of a Kobayashi Maru for nonwhite actors. Get hired, people might claim you only got hired for your race—especially if you're hired to play a nonwhite character. Lose out on work, complain that you're not getting enough work, and some people will turn on you for playing the race card and trying to get work via the color of your skin.
Using dubs is a bad example because most dub actors are kind of shit.
Hence why they started hiring e-celebs for EN dubs instead of actual fricking actors.
I feel like people who say this aren't actually able to identify a bad Japanese VO because they don't speak the language. I mean seriously, can you think of some shit Japanese VOs in media that you've watched?
>I mean seriously, can you think of some shit Japanese VOs in media that you've watched?
Sure I can, most voiced hentai has dogshit VO.
Just like most EN dubs suck ass, and not even just for anime, but in general EN dubs are shit.
Have you tried watching the EN dubs for some of the foreign stuff on Netflix?
They're almost all fricking terrible.
Dubgay here.
I don't watch much of Netflix at all really. Much less anime or dubbed content.
An intelligent comment! Thanks anon
I see both sides but as of now I would favor just let cast directors cast who they want. I feel for up and coming voice actors trying to get their foot in the door, but it doesn't feel right to stifle someone' s creative vision and choices in this instance
>Trying to diversify the amount of working talent in the industry is generally a good direction to go in,
I agree with this part. Doing it by being more racist than /misc/ is something that I have an issue with. But I'm not that concerned. I expect AI to take a good chunk of the jobs anyways.
Unless the actor is doing the absolute most racist, unrealistic accent as possible, I don't see the problem. I can understand recasting Apu, but why recast Carl?
Eh, I think the problem lies when you have a character speaking in a stereotypical way and voiced by a white guy, like with Apu on the Simpsons. Nobody made a big stink with Samurai Jack since he just spoke normally without any weird shit like replacing the L's with R's.
>apu speaks like an immigrant
>DAS RACISS
why?
No one anywhere is complaining about white immigrant characters who speak in exaggerated accents, and those are usually far more cartoonish than Apu.
It's usually white people voicing those characters tho
Why does that matter?
White guy doing an exaggerated caricature of a white person = nobody's going to complain
White guy doing an exaggerated caricature of a nonwhite person = people are probably going to complain
Is it unfair when a nonwhite person gets away with voicing a white character in a very stereotypical way? Yeah, but that's the way the cookie crumbles with the unique, unpleasant history of race in entertainment in this country.
I've been a weeb since they called us otaku, bagging groceries so I could buy VHSes and my god, dubs have gotten so much better since the late 90s/early aughts. I only watch a few shows per season these days but I've only come across a few performances that make me wince. Meanwhile shit like OG Tenchi is unwatchable. There is something charming about those shittier dubs sometimes, though. Ranma 1/2's dub is mostly awful, yet I prefer it to the more polished stuff you hear nowadays.
Which e-celebs, though? I haven't heard about that. Of course I'm an oldgay so I barely know what an e-celeb is.
>Which e-celebs, though? I haven't heard about that.
The most recent one is YongYea, who is a very shitty VA who got his start regurgitating IGN and Kotaku articles for morons on Youtube.
His most recent role is him replacing the original dub VA for Kiryu in Yakuza, and prior to that he played Pucci in Stone Ocean.
Personally, I don't watch dubs at all, so it's no skin off my nose, but even I can see what a horrible fricking VA he is, especially for Kiryu, fricking hell was that a horrid choice.
>White guy doing an exaggerated caricature of a white person = nobody's going to complain
You say that as if white people are one homogeneous group with no diversity or differences. I mean how many Russians, Scots, French, or Croatian characters are voiced by people that aren’t from those places? No one gives a shit about those because A) ignorance, and B) because ultimately most white people don’t give a shit about those stereotypes.
>inb4 the list [insert group you listed] isn’t white
Then substitute your own, it doesn’t change my point.
I wonder how these people feel about non-humans. I remember that some always claimed that certain transformers and such were race-coded and I always considered it very stupid.
if Darwin has a white voice in Gumball Season 7 people will lose their shit
It's so weird. I maybe get it for some rare particular characters like Bismuth of steven universe but in most cases it's completely deliberate and I noticed that they often just pick the characters they consider to be oppressed in anyway or flawless to be black-coded. That said, white-coding everybody is just as dumb, a guy like Garrus or Megatron is just a fricking alien or robot to me, I neither imagine them as white nor black.
It's basically a stopgap measure to get more PoCs into the industry. A way to enforce diversity hires. I'm hoping this practice dies out once the goal has been achieved.
Amerifats are so fricking cucked beyond belief. This is what happens when you don't have any culture of your own and devote it to worshipping Black folk. Thank god I'm not a moronic brown amerifat
The black ones don't seem to have one either. I have never seen any of them relating to Ghana or Kongo in any way, it's just flavors of ID-pol everywhere.
>I have never seen any of them relating to Ghana or Kongo in any way
why would they?
The fact that its okay for black guys to voice white characters seems like a bit of a double standard.
Boco confirmed for having a black VA
I'm whiter than sour cream. I just mean that Kevin Michael Richardson voices some white guys on The Simpsons.
Within the industry, as opposed to Twitter pontificating, it's always explicitly been about attempting to balance the fact that white voice actors got a disproportionate amount of roles by reserving the small number of minority characters for minorities. Unlike other cases, this wasn't argued as a matter of social equity but as business.
It seems everyone's forgotten that an actors job is to pretend to be somebody else.
It only makes sense if your goal is getting non-white actors more roles and you see white people voicing non-white characters as a petty resistance to that goal. Otherwise there isn't really any solid underlying logic medium-wise. Acting is all about pretending to be something that you are not, after all. The sentiment is similar to recent AI voice controversy, when the mere use of AI is seen as a middle finger to the voice acting industry. Would voice actors be similarly upset at someone who chooses to make their animation a silent film that utilizes intertitles instead of hiring them? Possibly. Any creative method that does not involve them is a threat that needs to be shot down. So to answer OP, this stuff is really all about achieving social goals.
I'm not even white and even I think this shit is stupid.
But, doesn't matter much to me, I rarely watch much western animation nowadays anyways.
I'd bet threads like these are mostly occupied by autistic purists and aren't really racists.
It still blows my mind that this all happened because of some moronic basketball American overdosing on Fentanyl in front of the Minneapolis police.
No, this all happened because some piece of shit failed "comedian" made a shitty documentary about the Simpsons.
Exactly.
Hari Kondabolu is funny but not "ha-ha" funny.
It's the same shit with raceswapping white Ariel with black Ariel. "Oh it's more authentic that it follows the original portrayal of the character!!!!!!!!! You can't have a black Ariel she's not the right color!!!!!!!!" other people say.
It's always about race shit in the end. Hollywood culture war to be politically correct.
Any argument for this fails the moment you need to make a local dub of the cartoon for countries where people have uniform ethnicity. Good luck finding a black Russian VA to voice your black characters.
Pretty much.
It's really all just Anglo brainworm type shit.
If there is no black Russia VA to take opportunities from then there actually is no problem.
I also think we should deport Blacks to russia
>hand wringing sounds
i can't
I'm indifferent. It's more because no one really thought of it like that before. I'm sure if they could, they would had Cleveland voiced by a real Black guy, but they didn't because at the time, no one really cared or thought about that kind of thing, and the generation at the time didn't either.
But times change, and the audience's tastes with it. So now it's "let's try to get black people voicing black people" is a new formal request. Mostly inflated by outraged conservatives that, for some reason, get really really upset about small things like this.
That said that's just the answer to the question you posited. Otherwise how much anyone really CARES, I don't honestly know. I don't hear a loud commotion for it, more just people who don't like the idea posting that "they" demand for it.
>Equity
Equity policies are the main reason America is getting it’s ass kicked on the world stage and having allies drift away. Sorry that most of the world doesn’t want to take part in your Trans-Afrocentrist regime
Getting its ass kicked by who exactly, the country with its economy about to collapse due to a housing bubble or the country currently obliterating half its military arsenal in what was supposed to be a surgical military operation in a smaller neighbor
>The country with it’s economy about to collapse about to collapse due to a housing bubble
If you mean China, a country where half of it’s landmass is underpopulated. Then you are probably moronic lol.
>the currently obliterating half it’s military arsonel
You mean Ukraine? Because Russia’s population grew to 4 million since the invasion and it’s economy is doing just fine despite sanctions. Meanwhile most young Ukrainian men are now worm food and Zelensky will probably end up importing millions of Arabs and Pajeets to replace them. Enjoy having grooming gangs in Odessa. That’s what you get for trusting Amerifats
https://m.timesofindia.com/world/europe/russian-economy-posts-growth-for-first-time-in-a-year/amp_articleshow/102656966.cms
The problem is that while we should have anyone being able to play anything...
>men playing women
>women playing men
>black people playing white people
>etc
What keeps happening is that the same 5 boring white actors keep getting all the VA roles.
VA especially should be based on how an actor sounds... But instead it's based on name recognition and clout.
That's how things are, so now we have this nonsense of "only X can voice X".
Yeah this. If black people were getting more roles in general then white guy voicing black guy would be under less scrutiny
Except you forgot one thing, Black Americans can barley speak coherently due to Ebonics. As a result they make for really shitty voice actors. Whites, Hispanics and Asians in comparison are far more equipped at doing voices.
If black people have such a distinctive way of speaking then why would you want a non-black person to voice them?
Because that non-black person may have a character voice which is the best fit for the role. Why would you specifically want a black person to voice them?
Because Ebonics is really unattractive in the world of voice acting, it’s viewed much in the same way Canadian French is to people who live in France.
It’s incomprehensible and only makes audiences less interested. It’s why whites and non-black minorities feel uncomfortable when watching black sitcoms like The Jeffersons, Fresh Prince or Family Matters. Because those shows were tailor made for black people in mind.
It’s better for a black character in a cartoon that doesn’t have a majority black cast to speak in a Standard American accent than ghetto speak. That way most audiences will be able to relate to the character.
>It’s why whites and non-black minorities feel uncomfortable when watching black sitcoms like The Jeffersons, Fresh Prince or Family Matters. Because those shows were tailor made for black people in mind.
Except most of the black characters in those shows didn't speak in ebonics, unless they were portraying some ignorant ghetto black person who wasn't part of the main cast who was usually there as an antagonistic force for the protagonists.
That's part of why those shows were popular, they were about black families who weren't hopelessly ghetto.
>Fresh Prince or Family Matters
IIRC, those two had some success with white audiences because they had prominent characters that didn't really adopt a heavy ebonic accent unless they were pissed.
>ebonics
jesus anon how old are you, at least you didn't say "jive" I guess
Because it's impressive when actors can do different voices
His original VA voluntarily stepped down, and his new VA does the job very well.
The only times I'm uncomfortable is when the delivery is notably worse in quality. I don't know if that's the fault of the actor or the director, or both, but whatever the case, it shouldn't distract from the rest of the production.
It's nice to hear more authentic performances
Because the only thing the west exports anymore is culture so they may as well target their audience.
Relic of when white actors used to get jobs voicing nonwhite characters because people typically just didn't hire nonwhite actors for anything, even VO roles. In live action, think back to Mickey Rooney playing a Japanese guy instead of just hiring a Japanese guy because surely there couldn't be any Japanese guys as funny as Mickey Rooney. In animation, think back to the crows in Dumbo. Most of the crows were actually played by black performers, but the lead crow Jim was played by Cliff Edwards, a white guy, doing his best black voice.
With VO, unlike earlier in cinema history the exclusion was probably not as intentional, but white actors certainly got roles playing nonwhite characters that would otherwise have gone to nonwhite actors, often due to small casts or low budgets (e.g., early Simpsons) or whatever else. And there wasn't any pressure to change this, because VO is purely vocal, you can't see the performers, so "white guy plays black guy" never got that dirty feeling it got in live action. Until now, anyway.
I think it's a nuanced topic. Think of that show where Kristen Bell played a biracial kid. The kid's half white, right? Why can't a white performer play her? But by that same token, why give this role to a famous white woman when you could give it to a nonwhite actor, since it could go either way?
It's less of an issue when you're just doing a normal voice, versus doing your best Black Guy Voice or your best Filipino Voice. That's a big reason why Apu pissed some people off: not just that he was voiced by a white guy, but that the white guy was doing an extremely stereotypical Indian accent. Not out of malice; just because he's a broad caricature, same way every other Simpsons character is. And yet Indian-American kids got shit on the playground because of it.
I dunno. Shit's weird and not as tumblr-poisoned as you think it is.
It IS a nuanced topic, but there's a lot of people who refuse to view it with any nuance and simply think best VA gets the job and that's all there is to it.
By nuanced, you should include CHOCK FULL OF HOLLYWOOD FRICKERY THAT OUTWEIGHS ALL THIS SHIT. I would bet giving head consistently outweighs racial concerns.
Japanese VO industry doesn't work at all like the US one does. And the dubs are a fricking wasteland of the industry.
>And yet Indian-American kids got shit on the playground because of it.
But they would have gotten the same amount of shit if an Indian guy were doing the voice
Fair point, but it's possible the voice would have been less exaggerated if it was an Indian guy. Or that kids wouldn't feel as uncomfortable because at least it's an actual Indian dude doing it instead of a white guy.
There's another nuance. The MLK era of racial advocacy held to the goal of a colorblind world, where people were judged by their abilities and race was absolutely not to be a consideration. There's the related idea that productions should have people of every race--but that the races don't have to match the races of the characters. The rainbow coalition.
The modern political idea is the one of Anti-racisim, which calls for viewing all decisions as a potential chance for "racial justice", to make up for discrimination of the past, graded by intersectionality. It's why they're very OK with Samurai Jack even when black people are overrepresented for their population in hollywood and asians are heavily underrepresented.
>The MLK era of racial advocacy held to the goal of a colorblind world, where people were judged by their abilities and race was absolutely not to be a consideration.
Did you just read the I Have A Dream speech and then nothing else that MLK said or wrote
It's a short throwaway line suitable for illustration. This conversation shouldn't go too deep into poltown. There is unquestionably a difference between MLK era's ideals, and Anti Racism's ideals on this matter. Getting rid of the word "colored people", to treat every racial identity, and preferably every person as an individual, and then bringing it fricking back as "people of color", as an example. Hell, we're bringing back the idea of racially segregated physical spaces out there
You will see plenty of people defend it but I won't. Robert Conquest's second law of politics.
So does this guy need to be voiced by a robot or a mexican, right now he's voiced some white dude
Phil Lemarr go off on someone saying Samurai Jack should be voiced by a white person after using his own tweet about people only voice certain people.
None.
if it were up to me all characters would only be voiced by Keith David, even the women.
Especially the women
I would TOTALLY watch an episode of Spirit or Beverly hills teens or Polly Pocket, or Winx where he voices everyone.
I don’t see how you could without being dishonest or racist, I mean a white guy voicing a black or Asian character isn’t the same as some dude doing a minstrel show or going Mickey Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany’s. Characters like Apu are only offensive if you look at them on the surface level and even then it’s stretching it since Indian dudes working at convenience stores is extremely common.
Being racist is part of the justification . It's OK to be racist, if it's in the name of correcting past injustices. That's the logic anyways.
Oh I know, it only goes to show their blatant hypocrisy.
No the logic is that they arbitrarily redefined racism to make it literally impossible for them to be considered racist, therefor they are not racist.
That’s how the woke crowd usually does it.
I somewhat agree. I don't give a frick about minorities b***hing about losing roles to white people voice non-white characters, but I get autistically angry when characters are suppose to speak with a certain accent but are voiced by an American or British person doing a really shitty accent or just talking normally. Its fricking omni-present in pretty much all media and I fricking hate it.
I thought affirmative action was over?
>Can anyone defend the "cartoon characters need to be voiced by actors of the same race" paradigm
It broadens the talent pool.
With more mediocrity and union nepotism.
>Can anyone defend the "cartoon characters need to be voiced by actors of the same race" paradigm
This has literally led to "The main characters are White / Hispanic / Native BUT HAVE NO HARD RACE and the side characters are Animal or Monster people" so that White/Hispanic/Native-identifying-at-the-moment israelite can voice all the characters and the studio can claim the Animal or Monster people aren't a racial people despite oftentimes being American Black or African Native-coded so the same voice actor can voice them too.
I can't because its moronic. If races matters, than sex matters, meaning the most famous character in history, Goku, shouldn't be voiced by a women in Japan.
It's even more moronic because if anyone thinks this then they should be even more anti ai than normal creatives because ai's should, by extension, only voice robot characters.
The whole "sex matters" shit gets even more pretzel-brained whenever you consider transexuals. I dislike the transexual community, and an overwhelming transexuals I've ever had the displeasure of interacting with, so I speak entirely from the perspective of people whom I disagree with on this, but still recognize their argument: that fundamentally a "female brain in a male body" should be validated and recognized as such.
Well, pic related was voiced by a transexual up until they died, and gave a completely fine male voice, and that was around twenty+ years ago. Of course the Social Justice crowd would excuse it today since trannies place higher on the oppression totem pole, but if this shit were happening today, where people are demanding that sexes and races match the characters' profiles, seeing those knobs trying to say that something like pic related is okay while still calling Maddie Blaustein a woman would be hilariously baffling.
*and an overwhelming number of the transexuals
Im just gonna say it, Kubo and the Two Strings would have been better with nonwhite voice actors. It bothers me thinking of white people voicing the characters so much
The Jubilee actress from X-Men TAS legit volunteered to leave the role because she's white and will not be voicing her in the revival. So, Wolverine, Beast, Rogue, Storm, and Sinister are going to be the only characters with their voice actors reprising their roles.
It’s been awhile since I watched the X-men animated series but doesn’t she just sound like a normal? Like no accent or anything like that?
I mean that sucks but Storm's the only one I wouldn't want replaced so lucky me.
Shit bait, read the room and a book.
Not even sure if it's enforced everywhere. Bleach for example, the guy that voiced Chad stepped down because he isn't Hispanic. I don't believe they've gotten to Yoruichi yet in the new series, but I hadn't heard Wendee Lee stepping down.
Authenticity.
liberalism was a lie race gender and sexuality are the only things that matter