Well not literally never, but for the past 40 or so years. I was always confused when people shat on Snyder for making people hate Superman, and supposedly making him underperform at the box office. Inflation-adjusted, Man of Steel is the second highest grossing Superman movie (unless you count BVS, then it's second and MOS is third). It was the character's best media performance in nearly forty years.
Superman is a character who has not had any relevance to the greater cultural sphere since the Bronze Age. His first movie was a massive genre-defining success, but the second cratered (while still doing well) and the next three (inc. Supergirl) flat-out bombed and made the character a joke. Lois and Clark and Krypton both did mediocre viewership and got prematurely canceled. Superman and Lois is averaging fewer than a million viewers per episode. His 80s cartoons got killed after one season, Legion after two. He has never had a AAA game to thrust him into the mainstream the way Batman and Spider-Man have had several.
But even all that doesn't compare to two disastrous humiliations of the 2000s. By far the biggest is Superman Returns, which flopped at the box office and had such venomous audience reception that its sequels got canned. The result was that Superman remained a nobody to millennials while Spider-Man, Batman, and the X-Men got iconic well-received film series (and video games) at the same time (even pre-Avengers).
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Lesser but still important was the DCAU. While Batman got 109 episodes and 3 movies, Superman got 54. Except he didn't really; after season one, seasons 2 and 3 were made a package show with more Batman shit. Literally 15% of episodes after that point were Batman crossovers (6/41). THEN, the series got canned altogether (not even a movie to finish its story arc) for another Batman spin-off. Batman Beyond alone (52) literally has more episodes than STAS without the Batman crossovers, plus a movie.
The humiliation continued in Justice League. If any millennial or zoomer says they liked DCAU Superman more than Batman they're probably lying. JL/JLU made Superman a perpetual jobber, gave him limited screen time, and made him an idiot who fell for every villain's trap and usually had to be saved by Batman (even alt-universe Batman has to save the world from a moronic evil Superman). THEN they had his archnemeses, Brainiac and Darkseid, being defeated by Flash, Batman, and Luthor. Just to piss on the ashes. On top of all of this, JLU itself had mediocre viewership compared to BTAS or even the Brave and the Bold series that came immediately after it. It was the final nail in the coffin for the character having any relevance to millennials and zoomers.
Here are some basic hard facts for Superman as of 2017:
>of his nine films, five are flops (Supergirl, Superman 3, Superman 4, Superman Returns, Justice League)
>two of his three highest-grossing films are Snyder's
>most of his recent shows keep getting canceled after two seasons
>he still has no good video games; the only one he is in that people care about is the one where he's an evil strawman that gets beaten up by Batman
>his current show is averaging 1/3 the viewers of throwaway garbage like late Agents of Shield or Agent Carter
>no one wants to see a Superman movie; they might still do it if it's good but the character has essentially zero brand power
>no one reads comics or watches those straight-to-DVD movies
I've been saying this for years but Superman fanboys and Cinemaphilegays keep making excuses. They keep waiting for that "Superman done right" movie that will never happen. Superman Legacy will flop and they will blame Snyder for "ruining the character's image" while The Batman 2 gets 1 billion in box office.
it's really weird, they keep imagining a version of Superman who never existed. There's nothing to RETVRN to, the character has been irrelevant outside of a niche cultural sphere of comic book readers/direct-to-DVD animation watchers since the early 1980s. Unironically his greatest successes since then have been Man of Steel and Smallville and Superman "fans" absolutely hate those.
>Superman "fans" absolutely hate those.
Things that never happened.
I know Snydergays are delusional but denying that MOS was slammed by self-proclaimed Superman fans is weird. I thought everyone hating Man of Steel was part of your narrative?
>Things that never happened.
Superman fans have hated almost every semi successful thing with character.
I remember when i was a teenager and Justice League Unlimited was still airing. Superman fanboys couldn't shut up about Paul Dini and specially Bruce Timm doing the character dirty. They'd complain every little thing. Superman is too weak, Superman is overshadowed by Batman, Superman is too angry, Superman is too violent, Superman is too much of a b***h, Superman is always in the wrong, Superman never fricks any b***hes, Superman should be fricking Wonder Woman, and so on. It was a constant cry.
Nowadays Superman fanboys keep complaining about the new animated movies not being like the DCAU which is ironic as frick. They are never happy.
not even a supergay but him being done dirty in JLU was objectively true. He fell for every trap, his alt universe self was a strawman that Batman had to stop, and he didn't even get to beat his own main villains, instead he got defeated by them in an embarrassing fashion and they were defeated by Batman, Flash, and Luthor.
Superman was made to be less powerful than he usually is so that they could actually make the villain feel like a threat to him. If they had kept the character as powerful as his fanboys at the time wanted he'd be one shotting characters like Livewire with ease and i don't know what to tell you but i need that blue b***h sexually harassing Superman.
Superman character development was also what drove the entire larger narrative of Justice League and Justice League Unlimited to the point that the JL cartoon felt more like extended seasons of the original Superman: The Animated Series cartoon.
Superman was cool as frick under Dini and Timm. He felt like a proper character and hero first than your typical depiction of Superman that feels more like some weird character wank. He had an actual personality and flaws. He could get easily angry, he could be stubborn, he could make mistakes, and the best thing he was continually learning and progressing as a character. The cartoons also introduced tons of cool characters and villains from the Superman lore that otherwise nobody would give a frick.
I love Superman as a character but i fricking hate his fanboys.
I wasn't talking about his power level. Making him weaker was fine, if anything they should've gone farther. I'm talking about competence. He was an idiot who fell for every single trap and was constantly getting dabbed on by literally everybody.
>Superman was cool as frick under Dini and Timm. He felt like a proper character and hero
Superman under Dini and Timm was both a jobber and a literal cuck. Every single aspect of his character existed to make Batman look better.
>love Superman as a character but i fricking hate his fanboys.
Replace Superman with every superhero ever and I agree with you
And Smallville? And the current TV show?
The Krypton show seemed well liked, too.
Smallville would get hate comments from them, yes, but much less than the DCAU cartoons ever did. I think the fact the show was more about a teenager Clark before he ever got to be Superman helped contain some of the autismo.
Krypton i honestly have never seen anyone talking about. There were people that watched it, yes, but most didn't even seem to be Superman die-hard fanboys just general audience glued to the new thing.
Superman is a fantastic character but contemporary writers can't write him because he's just genuinely a good person with an infallible moral compass and no grey and gray morality. Superman realizes good and evil is a black and white dynamic and he never wavers on that, and given that he is more or less invincible he also has the means to enforce his objectively correct vision.
Superman's challenges should come from being a Paragon of unflinching righteousness in our corrupt and evil world. Contemporary writers can't write that though, they lack the skill and maturity to handle it. Easier to write batman being edgy and straddling the line between killing the Joker or joining him.
>good and evil is a black and white dynamic
>Superman is a fantastic character but contemporary writers can't write him because he's just genuinely a good person with an infallible moral compass and no grey and gray morality
The biggest superhero in the world is Spider-Man, what's grey about him?
>wordswordswords
I didn't read your gay blog, but you can have this bump. Call it a mercy. Next time the threads gets bumped, don't post.
Batman's had the significantly better and more memorable sets of runs while Superman's best stories are all in elsworld books, reimagingings of his origins, or one shots
I really think Superman is a drag on DC.
He's too powerful and his supporting characters in Metropolis are boring.
That Superboy from Teen Titans is way more interesting.
Just kill the character and leave Superboy in his place
>He's too powerful
This complaint has always been moronic
No
Its not
Yes.
It is.
They just give him more powerful villains.
>too powerful
stopped reading.
Joker carries Batman on his back
Highest grossing Batman movie ever: not the one with the Joker
>implying TDKR didn't surf on TDK's success
lmao
The only Supermen that any zoomers know about besides Man of Cardboard are
A. The guy who got literally cucked by Batman then defeated by a Batman villain before being saved by Batman then had both of his main villains defeated by Batman then jobbed to them again after they were revived before being saved by Flash, Luthor, and Batman.
B. The guy who got figuratively cucked by a Batman villain then became a tyrannical dictator only to be stopped and beaten up by Batman
Unironically he's a less popular character than a popular vidya man like Kratos or a low to middling Marvel character like Doctor Strange. Movies featuring either of them would have more inherent brand appeal. Hell a movie featuring a complete no-name OC would have more brand appeal because it wouldn't have a history of flops.
what was his fricking problem
Which episode of I Think You Should Leave is this?
Superman haters are miserable people.
complaining about how people don't like your wholesome 100 big chungus dad won't make his movies make money or stop his shows from getting canceled after two seasons
I watched batman because I think his bad guys are cool and interesting, in the animated shows and movies at least.
I think this is a huge problem with Superman, none of his rogues have actually made it into the mainstream. He's been in nine movies and they've just recycled Zod and Luthor over and over, plus Woodenwolf. Smallville introduced some more (and is the most popular Superman thing after the DCEU and Donner duology) but they were pretty far from recognizable there and tbh kind of sucked. At least Gunn might throw in Mxy or Bizarro, or at least Parasite or Mongul.
unironically it's the opposite, one of Superman's problems is that he gets no b***hes. He just has Lois Lane who no one likes. Batman gets to be teased with Catwoman, Wonder Woman, Zatanna, Vale, and Rachael (who no one likes but eh). Spider-Man with Mary Jane, new OC girl, Gwen Stacy, and Black Cat. For the women in the audience even Wondie gets to have a gigachad like Pines' Steve fall for her while also getting crushed on by Batman and Aquaman and several women.
Superman's a much less appealing self-insert escapist character for the crowd.
>He just has Lois Lane who no one likes.
Lois Lane is a better woman than any of the bawds Batman hangs out with. That's part of why Batman is so jealous of Superman.
No one likes Lois Lane.
In the Reeve films she's both a complete idiot and a conceited butthole, and also ugly.
In the DCAU she never even gets with Superman and instead fricks Batman.
In the DCEU she's like 6/10 in both personality and looks and was the most complained about part in BVS.
In the video games she doesn't exist.
Where's the good Lois, Smallville? This latest CW show that's averaging less than a million viewers?
>Where's the good Lois, Smallville?
Yes. Erica Durance and Tom Welling have excellent chemistry.
>In the DCAU she never even gets with Superman and instead fricks Batman.
She does get with him eventually.
I REALLY fricking hope Gunn tries tackling Parasite I feel given his track record and love of body horror Parasite would be perfect for him
Lois Lane's comic series had more issues than any solo female marvel character
He's one of my top 3 favorite superheroes but you're absolutely right.
The best thing about Superman is his office flirtation with Lois. Batman can't compete with this because he spends all his time in a cave with little boys, Bruce Wayne was on the Epstein flight logs for sure.
batman has catwoman though him turning the latex wearing villain into a good girl sub with his dick is more kino than office romance
Zoomers still remember DCAU Batman who was some weirdo's self-insert and therefore got to frick a bunch of women who either didn't exist or had little relation to him in the comics.
Harley Quinn wants to frick him
Beaumont wants to frick him
Wonder Woman wants to frick him
Cheetah wants to frick him
Barbara Gordon wants to frick him (his SON's gf)
Catwoman wants to frick him
Talia wants to frick him
Even Lois Lane wants to frick him (and Snyder was going to have him impregnate her in his original DCEU outline)
The super popular Arkham games also go out of their way to note that he definitely has fricked Catwoman, Vicki Vale, and Talia.
That's not "some weirdo's self-insert" and it's not specific to DCAU or Arkham, it's a natural byproduct of being a peak-human billionaire. It'd be weird if he wasn't a pussy magnet.
>That's not "some weirdo's self-insert" and it's not specific to DCAU or Arkham
Yes it is. Batman never fricked any of these women outside of the DCAU except Catwoman.
Him fricking Talia has been canon in the comics for a while hence Damian but it was originally that she date raped him before they retconned that.
thought he was some weird clone
nah. in the original comic talia drugged bruce and fricked him to conceive damian but they retconned that to make it more of a consensual thing (the sex at least, Batman had no intentions of having a kid).
oh I think I was thinking of batman beyond then
that was the 2013 retcon, casual.
>outside of the DCAU
He fricked Vicki Vale in the '89 movie. Didn't he also frick Black Canary in the comics? Why are you acting like it's weird that women would be attracted to Batman in or out of the suit?
Yes, it is. It’s also moronic. DCAU/ Arkham Bats is an autistic ragekiddy who nolifes crime fighting. Literally a charmless grunting sperg. Dumb as hell that he’s also an effortless womaniser. This is why DCAU Bats is shit. Horribly written cardboard cutout for losers to self-insert into (like his fat homosexual writer)
DCAU bats actually had some good banter if I recall thoughever
>Yes, it is
multiple posts have already proven you wrong
>autistic ragekiddy who nolifes
absolutely
>charmless grunting sperg
Not in the least, otherwise he couldn't fake being a carefree playboy.
Every now and then he gets the notion that he can let someone in and/or he deserves a sliver of happiness, and it usually bites him in the ass. That's part of writing a tragic character. The fact that you can only comprehend Batman getting laid as shitty self-insertion says way more about you. It tells me you practice self-insertion multiple times a day.
>
> multiple posts have already proven you wrong
>doesn’t link any of them
Where’s this proof of which you speak?
>fakes being a carefree playboy
So the moron roidbrain is also an Oscar-winning actor? Yeah like I said then, horribly written character. At least Arkham Bats commits to being a moron in and out of the cowl, DCAU Batman is an embarrassingly written schizophrenic. Still, glad they skipped that part of his origin. After working out for 36 hours a day while simultaneously studying to be an expert mixed martial artist, criminal psychologist, forensic scientist, and engineer, I guess the three years he spent artistically rehearsing pick-up lines with Andrew Tate would have made him DCAU Bats even more moronic than he already is.
>that’s part of writing a tragic character
There’s nothing tragic about an angry moron happily choosing to be an angry moron. I know all your experience of literature comes from picture books but here’s a helpful hint - tragic characters actually have ARCS. They don’t just freeze in time as shallow, one-dimensional caricature defined only by sulkiness and rage.
>where's this proof
among others
>moron roidbrain
How the frick do you get that from genius detective, tactician, etc.?
>freeze in time
That's the nature of a character that's given to different writers for decades, dipshit. He doesn't get retired after one arc, nor can he have one continous story forever. People have to hit the reset button sometimes.
>The fact that you can only comprehend Batman getting laid as shitty self-insertion says way more about you
The fact you’re passionately defending a capeshit character because he’s le awesome tragic womaniser says literally everything about you kek
I'm happy to entertain legitimate criticism of the character. I and others are just calling out your completely uninformed misreading of one of its better representations. Clearly you fancy yourself a fan since you tried (and failed) to reference iterations outside of DCAU. Did you even watch TAS? Did Kevin Conroy molest you? I admit the last part is likely, and your otherwise moronic interpretations would make sense psychologically.
>Barbara Gordon wants to frick him (his SON's gf)
what the frick was bruce timm thinking with the babs and bruce ship
why would he write batman cucking his adopted son
>Harley Quinn wants to frick him
>Beaumont wants to frick him
invented to want to frick him
>Wonder Woman wants to frick him
because there's a 70s Brave and the Bold era where she does that Bruce Timm probably has on his wall somwhere
>Cheetah wants to frick him
true
>Barbara Gordon wants to frick him (his SON's gf)
she did in the 60s. Batgirl and Robin is a pedophilic nightmare
>Catwoman wants to frick him
>Talia wants to frick him
no shit?
>Even Lois Lane wants to frick him (and Snyder was going to have him impregnate her in his original DCEU outline)
yeah because of that old school World Finest story from the 50s where Bruce and Clark are Wuthering Heights Lois
Yeah,
is officially a moron
So weird that a 30 year old man with a body builder physique, super model face,and blions of dollars is attractive to women, he's also suave and charming!
>women want to frick the gigachad billionaire
So unrealistic
Most women want to frick the super hot billionare???
Zoomers didn't watch DCAU Batman you dumb frick. At best they grew up with Brave and the Bold or the The Batman cartoon, both on Cartoon Network. There is also that weird CGI one plus Young Justice and younger zoomers may have also been watching Teen Titans Go, Superhero Girls, etc. But none of those shows even approached the Batman universe or the DC universe at large in a way that isn't just comical or gives you a huge barrier to entry. No one gives a frick about a character like Big Barda and yet the DC animations of the last 20 years try super hard to make sure everybody appears and gets full attention, even if they are an obscure character with no appeal. Plus there are so many reboots, reimagining's and retakes of these characters that it's hard for somebody to latch on. I think that's why Batman is so popular because the characters of his universe transcend all that and they all get airtime thanks to the DCAU and the movies making them mainstream. But if the 1989 movie and the subsequent cartoon were not successes, Batman would probably also be completely irrelevant and unknown to zoomers because all of the cartoons that they've had to watch for the last 20 years do not do a very good job of introducing you and trying to make you a fan of the DC world because they all just pander to the fans that already exist.
Well Bruce gaywayne surely as a billionaire hang out with the " boys" on the island
Clark is a middle class worker like the rest of us
>Can we now admit that Superman has never been popular?
Where do you fricking idiots get the nerve to make these threads? It's like you have a kink for being called a moron.
5 cinematic flops
multiple shows canceled after 2 seasons
no games
only animated show of note canceled after two seasons for a Batman spin-off
Superman is the textbook definition of a Mary-Sue and so his stories are predictable and boring.
>But what about kryptonite!!!
grow up, moron
This. Having charisma black hole Henry Cavill play him was fantastic casting.
SHUT THE FRICK UP AND LIKE THEM BOTH
Even Frank and Waid , Batman and Superman's big respective fans, wound up being World's Finest chads in the end.
It's hard to quantify. For a long time, Superman's S was internationally more recognized than any other non religious symbol. Or at least that was the propaganda campaign. I remember reading it in multiple places, but it's also possible the same source was pushing that.
I think there's a big, unrecognized difference between "recognizable" and "popular." Another DC example is the Flash. He's probably the first example that comes to mind when you think of super speed but no one actually knows or cares about him beyond knowing his name.
Assuming this is true (I always thought it was) Superman’s popularity exists on a level beyond his mediocre stories and media outings because he’s Mr. Superhero.
Everyone kind of knows who Superman is and everyone has their own image of him and it’s not Christopher Reeve or whoever else, it’s the ultimate self-insert of being invincible/saving everyone/being looked up to, the end-all power fantasy. The movies and shows keep the idea alive but they are never really the new standard.
superman is what people think when they hear the word SUPER HERO. super is literaly on his name.
they are callled super heroes because of SUPERman
>Well not literally never, but for the past 40 or so years.
?
Great show, I'm on season 9 right now.
This show was better than it had any right to be. I dare say the last comic show with actual soul.
Didn't read, Superman is based and YWNBAW. Simple as.
superman is the third best selling hero of all time behind only batman AND spiderman
and spiderman is so fricking famous that it singlehanded outsels every single other hero on this list COMBINED on a almost 2:1 scale
>superman is the third best selling hero of all time behind only batman AND spiderman
comics have not been relevant since the 1980s
who is talking about comic sales?
well what are you talking about? It can't be box office results, Iron Man, Thor, and Captain America would dwarf him by dint of starring in the Avengers movies on top of their own successful trilogies.
Merchandise
And yet he has no games, his movies underperform and his show are cancelled.
the frick you talking about anon?
Superman and lois is moving foward while gothan knights and batwoman were both canned
they are even making a new cartoon series with a sexy tomboy lois and a Black person jimmy
>Superman and lois is moving foward
Superman and Lois averages less than a million viewers per episode.
thats more than what batwoman did
being more popular than batwoman is a low bar anon
it's only about 1/4 of Gotham though.
>9 years old data
KEK. Today Groot is more popular than Superman
realy
how many groot songs are out there?
for me its https://youtu.be/FSx9zt44V_E?t=6
Rocket Racoon is more popular than Superman
superman was a theft by israeli writers of the pulp hero Doc Savage the man of bronze who had a Fortress of Solitude in the artic
Batman works a lot better with the broader "mature" grimdork trend. Superman in his heyday was more straight up bizarre by comparison from what I've seen, and he didn't integrate very well with the serious business attempts from the 90's on. The cultural mentality basically fell off from his wavelength.
i personaly dont like batman
he is boring, the only good and fun parts of his stories are his villans
if people want to see your stories to see the BADguys and not YOU, you are a boring character
>i personaly dont like batman
>he is boring, the only good and fun parts of his stories are his villans
Same, I watch batman movies and shows for the villains.
Lois and Clark
Smallville
And whatever the new show is
Have kept Superman on television for decades
He’s getting a new (gay looking) cartoon too
The problem was WB hates the character and allowed Snyder to ruin him
And comics don’t know how to write proper Superman stories in 30 years
Biggest issue with the character is the lack of video game success
>The problem was WB hates the character and allowed Snyder to ruin him
by having him make money for the first time in 35 years?
The movie would have easily broke a billion after its opening weekend but there was a massive drop off because of all the bad word of mouth it got
>Snyder ruined him
>made the second most successful Superman movie adjusted for inflation
Let me guess, still waiting for the "Superman done right" movie that will hit 1 billion in box office?
>Snyder to ruin him
yeah superman killing the murderous psychopath that no prison on earth could hold down was out of character
that wasn't so much the issue so much as superman spending most of the time being a moping whiny b***h throughout all of his appearances in the snyderverse. even when he's saving people he looks depressed.
leave that shit to Batman, Superman is supposed to be optimistic.
Yeah what the frick in every scene he's just autistically staring into the distance.
>saving people he looks depressed.
you mean the scene where the guy with Xray vision is looking at the bodies of the people he couldnt save inside the burning building sad he couldnt save then in time from BvS?
I was specifically thinking about the montage of him saving people in BvS and he just looks like an autistic stone-faced and staring into the distance.
he could at least fricking smile he's superman
>I was specifically thinking about the montage of him saving people in BvS and he just looks like an autistic stone-faced and staring into the distance.
he is looking at the burning building where he couldnt save everyone one
do you want then to show the burning carcases on a pg super hero movie?
look that scene again, he isnt looking at the camera when everyone ty to reach for him
he looks directly at the burning building
I actually didn't get that other people were still in there, but even after that there's other scenes of him doing stuff and he doesn't seem optimistic at all in it. He's such a mope.
In fact I don't think there's a single scene in the Snyderverse where Superman actually comes off like he enjoys saving people. It comes off like he wants to kill himself after every scene. The only scene where it seems like he's actually enjoying being Superman is the First Flight one in MoS.
I don't want to watch superman to watch a grimdark brooding autist I have Batman for that. Superman should be optimistic.
>Superman doesn't smile like a moron in front of people that just lost their homes
>Superman doesn't smile like a moron while flying above burning corpses
Fricking moron, half of the scenes where we see of him saving people is in the middle of a disasters or even fights. We see superman being affected by his burden and having human emotions. First responders (that are trained) try to confort and calm the victims, they don't smile and laugh and allow people to process their loses, they don't say "everything is fine ma'am, I'm sure that apple pie you were making was going to taste great, is a shame your house burnt but don't you worry, i saved 4 out of your 5 kids hahaha". Superman doesn't need to enjoy saving people, he doesn't do it for personal enjoyment but because he thinks is the right thing to do, he can take on the weight of the world, he doesn't need to pretend that weight isn't heavy
you know it's a movie right? that they chose to put him in a scene where a bunch of people burned to death? they could've easily written a scene where superman actually saves people to justify him being shown in a more optimistic light.
Snyderbabies are so fricking embarrassing.
>grimdark
Do you know what grim dark is or do you just throw around terms mindlessly.
>well it's not actually grimdark because
don't care, you know what I mean you pedantic autist
>allowed Snyder to ruin him
Superman is fricking gay but you and I both know this isn't true.
It is objectively true cinematically.
two of superman's three highest grossing films are Snyder's.
released during the 2010s as a corporate response to Disney and mahvel during a cinematic renaissance of cape shit. I could’ve make a superman on my iPhone, released it during 2012-2018, and made 700m ez
>released during the 2010s as a corporate response to Disney and mahvel during a cinematic renaissance of cape shit
So? When Superman's initial films released they were the first of their kind, giving them tons of novelty. When Returns released we were already back in the superhero trend with billion-dollar Spider-Man movies and tons of other crap like X-Men and Batman.
because it invalidates Synder’s credit with the highest grossing superman movies. in fact they should’ve made more, when motherfricking antman made more.
>in fact they should’ve made more
based on what? When he took over the IP's cinematic history was 4/6 flops.
Also Ant-Man didn't make more, not even close.
based on merch sales, theme park rides, ice cream flavours, obnoxious tattoos, decades of television, previous films, etc. superman has existed for 80 years in different mediums throughout the world. the superman emblem, in fact, is the second most recognizable symbol in the world, right behind the crucifix. he is literally almost as popular a jesus fricking christ.
also you’re correct, so kudos. Antman 1 made 500ish million. but man of steel, only made 680ish million. that’s pretty “close” anon. ant man 2, made 660 million. pretty pretty close
Capeshit that made more than mos:
>all guardians of the galaxies
>black panther
>fricking venom
>captain marvel
>both deadpools
>seriously he got beat out by a low budget r rated foxshit with no marketing
>doctor strange
>avengers obvs
mos is a divisive and controversial film based on a globally popular ip. this divisiveness is why it did not crack a billion. you Syndergays think this is a good thing. the controversy, the division, and that’s because you’re moronic. maybe this thread’s thesis is correct, that superman just isn’t that popular. but no, the eighty years of context is non-negotiable. certainly, in 2013, superman was more popular than starlord, or doctor strange.
>theme park rides
Where?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman_%E2%80%93_Ride_of_Steel
this is but one. google says there are 13 superman rides in total around the world
This is the theme park ride you were talking about? Kek. Well, this Superman fella sure is famus.
I too can post jpgs
Literally nothing.
k
Come on anon, don't pretend to be moronic for (you)s.
Once again literally nothing. You're taking run of the mill park rides any small city has and talking them up as if they were something relevant.
I know this is Cinemaphile and you’re a syndergay and you’re moronic, but why are you choosing theme parks as your little hill to die on? seems random af
should I also mention the bizarre amount of popular music written about superman? he has his own genre. kryptonite, by 3 doors down. superman’s dead, our lady peace. superman’s song, crash test dummies. superman, eminem. the list goes on. will this be your new hill? it is less random than theme parks
>the superman emblem, in fact, is the second most recognizable symbol in the world, right behind the crucifix. he is literally almost as popular a jesus fricking christ.
recognizability is not popularity
>Capeshit that made more than mos:
MOS made more than any phase 1 MCU movie besides Avengers, and more than both Thor and Ant-Man's sequels, after immediately following a bomb. It was pretty successful.
you know for a syndergay dismissing superman = modern jesus is pretty funny
I'm not a Snydergay, I think he's a moronic pseudo who has never made a good movie. Doesn't change the fact that he objectively succeeded beyond any reasonable expectation with his Superman reboot.
>reasonable expectation
superman reboot in the 2010s should’ve cracked a billy. easily. this is a very reasonable expectation. the most reasonable. the least irrational. bare minimum. this failure is indicative of an audience who did not enjoy the adaptation. always will be
the only other recourse, the only other argument, is superman simply isn’t that popular. again the eighty years of existence negates this proposition. there are actual children in this world named Clark, or Kal. just ask nicholas be cage
>a billy
Dumb Black person lmao
an excellent and articulated reply thank (You)
You're the grown man who typed "a billy" like a Black person. Not me.
yes and I said thank you for the verbose and elucidated response
>superman reboot in the 2010s should’ve cracked a billy. easily
BASED ON FRICKING WHAT? The character's cinematic history was almost entirely bombs and no superhero movie except Avengers and Batman had made a billion by then.
when you or a random normie get in their car, and turn on the radio, when they hear “nuUHnuUHugH suuuperman’s dead”, that single song is an advertisement for any superman product. be it the ice cream or theme park ride or movie. there is no captain america song, or black panther song. when that normie goes to work, I dunno being a cashier at costco or something, and their annoying boss has a lame superman tattoo on their bicep, that too is an advertisement for any superman product. there is 80 years of cultural baggage that should’ve pushed a 2010’s, post avengers, superman reboot to at least 800ish mil.
it made 600 million because that annoying boss went and saw it opening night, and told his coworkers he liked it, but didn’t love when superman killed that guy
>but didn’t love when superman killed that guy
He really should have listened to Nolan
>b-but musicians mentioned him
Cool, so where are the box office bucks? Oh right his films up to that point were mostly flops.
I’ve noticed in this thread the outright dismissal of culture surrounding superman. the theme parks don’t matter, the songs don’t matter, next you’ll say the tattoos don’t matter, or the toys don’t matter. I guess none of it matters, and superman films exist entirely in a vacuum, removed from eighty years of profit in all mediums.
maybe it is. truly. if you’re asking my opinion though, wb hires people to make superman movies who don’t understand why superman is the single most recognizable symbol in the world. singer tried to make a feminine romance film, directly inspired the devil wears prada. literally his words. snyder deliberated tried to piss people off, as he admitted once in an interview. he stated that characters that exist in pop art, like superman, contain more cultural value when you deconstruct and challenge the values of the audience, which in turn causes your work to be further discussed, and deconstructed. he is absolutely correct. however this is in turn, pissing people off, while valid for extending the cultural legacy of a film, is not profitable. it does however, causes legions of morons to post infographs and red circles on Cinemaphile years after release. so kudos to him I guess
The problem is that you're equating the concept of a superhero named Superman because he is a man and he have superpowers with the actual character. People generally know Superman as a thing that exists because it is easy to understand Man + Super. But the actual character with his lore and supporting cast? Very little people actually give a frick about that.
Is like a zoomer knowing who John Wayne is in a general sense, ie old actor famous for cowboy movies. But that zoomer ever caring about seeing a John Wayne movie? Yeah, not happening.
So now even superman… doesn’t matter? okay it’s official nothing matters
Except the expectations of the suits that wanted that billion to get bonuses. MoS had over half of the budget covered by product placement, it made money for the investors and stockholders, but not for the people in charge.
>When Returns released we were already back in the superhero trend with billion-dollar Spider-Man movies and tons of other crap like X-Men and Batman.
You guys misremember how big the X-Men films actually were. The Last Stand made 460mil to Returns 390 in the same year. X-Men 1 was 296mil and 2 was 407. Batman Begins only made 373mil. There's not a huge difference. You can even look at other's that came out around the same time like Hulk (245mil) or Daredevil (179mil). For superhero films in the early to mid 2000's Returns made more than most, it just had a massively inflated budget because WB made them take on the cost of Superman lives.
Spider-Man wasn't the norm. It was a total freak and no Superhero film even got close until they were surpassed by TDK
*huff huff wheeze* leave...spiderman...to me
*chair breaks*
Batgays are getting nervous, his last movie did only OK and Batman was an autistic virgin in it like most of his fans. The Arkham games are over, he hasn't had a good cartoon in years, the DCEU Batman (Batmen?) are lame, and The Batman part 2 has been delayed until 2027 which means it'll probably be cancelled. Superman has a new cartoon out next month (with anime style animation so it'll be a hit with zoomers), he has a new movie in development directed by James Gunn, and a currently airing tv show.
The only way for Superman to work is for him to be a purely Sci-Fi character. Screw Kansas and the Daily Planet and all the other boring nonsense. Screw trying to turn a pulpy cape into some meaningful "idea" and "symbol". Superman should be the top dog who protects the Earth from cosmic threats while also at the same time patrolling and exploring the entire universe. A one-man F4, in a way.
>inb4 not muh
Yeah, we saw how well that's turned out. Superman has a pretty great lore and foundation to build upon, but it's never explored because writers can't write about a literal alien small-scale god, so they revert to "wholesome" slice of life, typical capeshit and pushing their moronic worldviews. Superman should be DC's FF. But nobody can write these characters well. Half the time the FF are wasted in nothing stories. Ever since Hickman's run ended they've just been screwing around. The current run is literally a Saturday morning cartoon with some high school level physics trivia thrown in. It's embarrassing.
If it were up to me I'd start off with Kal trying to find as much of Krypton as he can, and after a few arcs establish himself as THE protector of the Earth, while also attempting to reconstruct Krypton's civilization here on Earth. That'd be his long term goal. And to do that he'd start venturing out in the world. He'd put his literal quantum computer brain to work and get a job as a scientist at some big corpo and eventually set up his own to gain power and influence. Lex wouldn't be just an ideological antagonist, but a proper business competitor, and after a bit he'd get utterly punked to show just how outclassed a super-genius human is against a Kryptonian thought machine like Kal El. And I'd keep building and building. The title's called SUPERman, I'm not interested in the adventures of a homosexual talking down would-be jumpers. This should be a title bristling with ideas.
>Screw Kansas and the Daily Planet and all the other boring nonsense
Dumbest shit I ever heard, that's the stuff that people like about Superman. He should be trying to save the world and hold down a job as well as get with Lois.
>that's the stuff that people like about Superman
is that why his movies bomb, his shows get canceled, and he's a nogames?
>his shows get canceled
what shows are you talking about anon?
the only superman show is getting a 4th season while the third one is not even done yet
and they just anounced a new cartoon
>>his shows get canceled
First Superman animated series in 1988, canceled after one season.
Superman The Animated Series, canceled after three seasons and getting half as many episodes as Batman, with 6 of its 54 episodes being Batman crossovers; replaced with a Batman spin-off
Krypton, canceled after two seasons
Legion, canceled after two seasons
As noted, Superman and Lois is still alive, but that's because it's got no budget and extra-short seasons of 9-10 episodes. It's performing like shit. The last two seasons averaged 1.4 million viewers per episode, where the corresponding seasons of the Flash (which is garbage) averaged 4 million (with 20-episode seasons).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Flash_(2014_TV_series)#Episodes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman_%26_Lois#Episodes
Marvel's Inhuman series had better viewership.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inhumans_(TV_series)#Episodes
>goalpost moving
>Dude trust me, this says it's losing to ratings in these other shows because I say so
Uh huh, not falling for that again
look at the viewership numbers
I just did now and it's saying Superman's ratings are better than Black Lightning and Eternals? What the frick? Did you fricking edit these wiki entries to prank people?
you legitimately can't read
That's what you get for believing shit you read online moron lmao
>the only superman show is getting a 4th season while the third one is not even done yet
This show is losing in the ratings to fricking Black Lightning dude.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Black_Lightning_episodes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman_%26_Lois#Episodes
OP you got BTFO on Cinemaphile and now you're getting BTFO on Cinemaphile
Yeah, that's why his books haven't sold in the Top 30 for ages, he hasn't gotten a movie in a decade, he's never had a good game and so on and so forth... Fricker doesn't even get lego sets. Go ahead, tell me your Top 20 stories of excellent capewriting about
>muh wholesome Kansasboi Supahman
You can't. Because it's all shit. Derivative bullshit even lower than trashy pulps. But you homosexuals lap it up because you've convinced yourselves that liking this nonsensical, boring character with dreadful and unimaginative stories that waste the potential of it all, means that you're counter-culture "heckin trads". You disgust me. You and your repeated arguments, as if I'm talking to a bloody carnie robot. No intellect or genuine opinion behind it all. You take this core concept of a man who can do anything, and your biggest aspiration is some slice of life nonsense that anyone can do. I weep for you, you poor braindead nitwits.
Tell me anon, how would you write superman?
Getting gaped at the local bathhouse must make it pretty easy for you to crawl up your own ass like that huh?
>literal
>literal
>literal
>literally
>literal
Most eloquent Cinemaphilemblr poster.
Its so wonderful to judge the merits of a story or a character on fricking profitability. That certainly isn't why modern media is all fricking garbage. No, it's the enduring symbol of American values which is the real problem, it's just not epic enough.
Lets all watch another 40 fricking batman movies because he's got a proven profit generating formula. God I love the same brooding shit I've seen a dozen times already.
Superman just looks like a homosexual. I've always thought this
Scrap Lois, Jimmy, the Planet, and have him frick more b***hes. Lana Lang, Chloe Sullivan, Lois Lane, Tess Mercer, Lena Luthor, Maxima, Diana. Clark’s biggest weakness as a character is that he’s a boring cuck. Compare him to Batman who is allowed to have sex with dozens of women. Irl popular extroverted GigaChads like Clark/Superman do insanely well with women. Give him more sex appeal, there’s no reason he should he fixated on some roastie like Lois. It’s as bad as Tobey Maguire and MJ in the original trilogy.
Batman is shit and focusing that hard on him and 1 million versions of his story killed DC. 99% of his villains are shit too, including the Joker who is probably the most overused and tired villain of all time, a literal creativity vacuum. You talk about Superman and about Marvel but Batman is literally the same story and the same beats done over and fricking over. There's nothing cool about some broody paranoid butthole with no powers who gets to asspull his way out of dire situations because the writers want to sell merch with his face. There's nothing inspiring or interesting about him, he embodies no ideals and his rules are as hypocritical as they are ridiculous.
But the most ironic part is how the more serious, realistic and elaborate they try to make his settings, particularly his movies, the more comical it becomes, to the point I'd rather watch Adam West with his beer gut carrying some oversized prop to Patrick Bateman making that ridiculous smoker voice.
The one time a Batman story was allowed to be interesting was Batman Beyond and they sorta fricked it up with the twist, but it still remains the best piece of Batman content to date.
Boomers loved Superman because of actual comics and the 70s movies.
Gen X and millennials loved Batman because of the Burton and Nolan movies.
Spiderman seems to be the most popular today with kids, but maybe that's just the Disney money.
You are correct. I loved Superman as a kid, dressed like him for Halloween, but was laughed to scorn by children and adults alike. Nevertheless, I wore that cape with pride.
>Character based on Superman is a better Superman than modern Superman
All Might can't be a Superman, he's too flawed, specially physically.
Joss Whedon’s cut of Justice League opens with a hideous and corny video interview with Superman, foregrounding him as a central character. Later, Whedon suggests that Superman renders the rest of the team redundant. Superman can fly as fast as the Flash (Ezra Miller) runs. When the Flash saves a single family, Superman saves an entire building as a background gag. When Cyborg (Ray Fisher) struggles to separate the Mother Boxes, Superman arrives to handily rip them apart.
Whedon’s cut basks in the classic iconography of Superman. Zack Snyder had originally planned for Superman to appear in the black costume that the character wore after his death in the comics, but Whedon opted for the traditional red and blue look. Similarly, Danny Elfman’s soundtrack makes sure to quote from John Williams’ classic score to Richard Donner’s Superman, which is perhaps still the defining live-action adaptation of the character four decades later. Elfman justified this decision as an appeal to nostalgia.
Some traditionalist fans complained that the Superman introduced in Man of Steel and developed in Batman v Superman was “not really Superman” or even “a deliberate trashing of the character of Superman.” In many ways, Whedon’s alterations to the theatrical cut of Justice League feel like a concession to these fans. Much like how Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker approached its older characters, Whedon tried to assure those fans that their take on Superman was still the most important.
Batman’s creation, in real life (Earth Prime) and in the DC Universe, is directly inspired by Superman. Bob Kane, Robert Kahn, heard the Superman comic was making $5000 a week. He with Bill Finger, Milton Finger, then directly copied Superman with their new character. Batman wears a cape, because Superman wears a cape. Batman has an emblem on his chest, because Superman has an emblem on his chest. Batman wore a yellow belt, because Superman had a yellow belt. Batman wore his underwear on the outside, because Superman wore his underwear on the outside. Batman has a secret identity, because Superman has a secret identity. Thus, the sequel to Man of Steel, should have had a Bruce being inspired by Superman, to become Batman.
Why didn’t this, happen, syndergay? Quote Morrison all you like, they will stumble, they will fall, yadda yadda. Why didn’t the Synder Batman JOIN Superman in the sun?
Why is the Synder Batman already active in Gotham? Why wasn’t the Synder Batman INSPIRED to become Batman, as a result of MoS? Is it because TDKR is the only Batman comic Synder had read?
This is how I know you Synder gays are moronic. You may now continue essay posting.
>Why didn’t the Synder Batman JOIN Superman in the sun?
But he did? Next time pay attention to what you're watching.
>ignores the entire context of Batman basing his costume off Superman’s
syndergays die plz
You're mixing continuity with metaphor.
In the movie continuity both Batman and Wonder Woman were already heroes long before Superman showed up much like the Justice Society characters after the 80's reboot.
But metaphorically both Batman and Wonder Woman were reborn as heroes after meeting Superman. Batman and Wonder Woman regained their faith in a better tomorrow and their purpose as heroes.
See how you're focused on something superficial and meaningless as a costume while ignoring the characterizations and broader context of the larger narrative.
it’s not superficial if Batman’s entire reason to become a superhero is because some alien is flying around in metropolis. as it is in real life, and in the comics.
>they can be a great people, they wish to be. they lack only the light to show the way. for this reason, above all, I have sent them you, my only son, kal-el
Mario fricking Paluso. not that you care about capeshit before 2010.
>they will stumble, they will fall. in time, they will join you in the sun
grant fricking morrison. not that you’ve actually read those pages
see, syndergay, bringing in an older Batman who’s already Batman for decades, inherently destroys the very premise of the World’s Finest. Batman IS Batman because of Superman. That’s why, cape, emblem, briefs, etc. you can write all the essay posting you want, but it’s obvious this never even actually occurred to you until this very thread. think about that. all your pontificated and pretentious philosophy and this basic primal if not ancient yet obvious truth never actually entered your brain until I typed it into your syndergay skull. post all the infographs and red circles you like, you anon, you syndergay, are full of shit
I probably have read more DC published comics than you.
Once again you're focusing entirely on superficial aspects like continuity and costumes and whatnot.
The Justice Society characters had their continuity changed by the 80s reboot to explain how they could exist in the same universe together with Superman and the rest of the Justice League character. To commutate that change Superman own past was changed so that he wasn't the first super hero to debut anymore. So are you going to b***h about the old and possibly more well known body of work published by DC because of that?
Batman debuting before Superman in the grand scheme of things is meaningless. DC publisher itself made that changed back in 2011 when they rebooted their comics yet again. When that happened they changed things around so that Batman actually debuted five years before anyone else including Superman. Are you going to cry about comics published a decade ago?
This complaint is meaningless and feels more like nitpicking. The metaphor of Superman inspiring all the other heroes to follow his example, both old and new, still works within the film.
no, you have not read more dc comics than I. literally got my undergraduate in mythology with a thesis on golden age comics, homosexual. if I said Michael uslan was an inspiration, do you even know who he is? even got his book signed
personal bantz aside, we are not talking retcons or crisis, we are talking 1939. we are talking about superman inspiring others to become heroes. here you are essay posting as if synder actually accomplished this. writing hundreds of words as if it were some grand revelation. all while conveniently ignoring, synder Batman exists, in direct contradiction to this fact. synder batman exists because tdkr exists. simple as. that’s as far, that’s how thought went into his creation. literally, your handful of essay posting, is likely more consideration than synder batman ever received. Clark and Bruce are the sun and the moon of all DC Earths. And the moon, my moronic Synder friend, came later than the sun, trapped in its orbit like all.
but here you are homosexual, saying the moon is bigger, brighter, and actually came first. and that’s okay. because R E A S O N S
Zack Snyder’s Justice League understands that Superman is a symbol and an idea, and that he works best in that context. After all, while there’s some debate about whether he was technically the first superhero, Superman codified the superhero genre. All modern superheroes can trace their lineage back to him. As the graffiti on the memorial at the end Batman v Superman reminds audiences, “If you seek his monument, look around you.”
Even though he dies at the end of Batman v Superman, Superman still wins an important moral victory: He redeems Bruce Wayne’s faith in humanity. It’s revealing that Superman is a clear inspiration and influence on the team that Bruce assembles in Zack Snyder’s Justice League. “He was my hero,” the Flash concedes as he exhumes Superman’s body. Bruce repeatedly talks to Alfred (Jeremy Irons) about his newfound belief in something beyond the material world, inspired by Superman.
Each of the new members of the team reflects some facet of Superman back at him. The Flash has tremendous power and moves through the human world but seems unsure of how to relate to other people. “I need friends,” he confesses to Bruce. Barry Allen is awkward and uncomfortable interacting with other human beings. During his introductory action set piece, Snyder demonstrates how fragile and strange the material world must appear to Barry Allen, as the hero intervenes to prevent a horrific car accident.
It’s a scene that mirrors an early use of Superman’s powers in Man of Steel to save a bus. Much like Man of Steel continually demonstrates how alien Earth must seem to a being with the powers of Superman, Justice League suggests something similar in relation to the Flash’s ability to slow down and distort time. And much like Man of Steel ends with Clark getting a job at the Daily Planet, Justice League ends with Flash getting a job at Central City Crime Lab. He is now part of the world.
The parallels are more pronounced with Aquaman (Jason Momoa). Much like Superman is a child of two worlds, caught between Krypton and Earth, Aquaman is trapped between Atlantis and the surface world. And much like Man of Steel suggested that General Zod (Michael Shannon) sought to turn Krypton into a fascist dictatorship, there are similar suggestions in Justice League that King Orm (Patrick Wilson) is attempting something similar in Atlantis.
Aquaman’s arc in Justice League is about coming to understand the obligations that he has, the responsibility that comes with great power. When Bruce initially tries to recruit Aquaman to the team, Aquaman refuses. “I wanna be left alone,” he insists. “I don’t owe anyone anything.” It’s similar to Superman’s arc in Man of Steel, having to “take a leap of faith” and decide that the human world is worth fighting for. Aquaman eventually makes that same leap.
However, the parallels are most strongly pronounced with Cyborg, the character who most benefits from the expanded runtime and shift in focus. Cyborg is also the character who is most explicitly positioned as a spiritual successor to Superman. He is the “next generation” of superhero. As Richard Newby pointed out, it is Cyborg who gets the big traditional superhero introductory sequence in Justice League, learning to fly like Superman in Man of Steel. Both Cyborg and Superman are resurrected by Mother Boxes.
If Superman’s relationship with his fathers Jor-El (Russell Crowe) and Jonathan Kent (Kevin Costner) provided the central arc of Man of Steel, Justice League is rooted in the relationship between Cyborg and his father Silas Stone (Joe Morton). If Man of Steel suggested that Superman was a child of two worlds, then Silas is explicitly positioned as “a father twice over.” Even Silas’ final scene in Justice League is shot to evoke that of Jonathan Kent in Man of Steel, calm in the face of death.
Crucially, Cyborg is presented as the next logical evolution of Superman. In Man of Steel, Superman served as a bridge between the old world and the new world, with Krypton presented as a corrupted version of Europe succumbing to fascism casting Superman as a refugee to the New World. In Justice League, Cyborg exists as a bridge from the material world into a new digital frontier. Silas’ monologue suggests that his son is just as much of a game changer, if not more so, than the Last Son of Krypton.
Indeed, it’s telling that Cyborg gets the DCEU’s signature climactic scene in Justice League. In both Man of Steel and Wonder Woman, the protagonists are confronted by an enemy that offers to remake this “fallen” world in the image of a nostalgic paradise. In Man of Steel, Zod tempts Superman with the resurrection of Krypton. In Wonder Woman, Ares (David Thewlis) tries to tempt Diana (Gal Gadot) with plans to restore the world to the paradise that it was before mankind sullied it.
It’s a classic mythic moment — it’s Satan tempting Christ in the desert. In Justice League, Cyborg is tempted like Superman was in Man of Steel. As he attempts to interface with the Mother Box, he is offered the promise of a humbler sort of nostalgia, a restoration of his life before the accident that transformed him into a fusion of man and machine. Naturally, Cyborg rejects this invitation to retreat into memory and fantasy. In doing so, he embraces the future.
Zack Snyder’s Justice League suggests that this is the true power of Superman, acting as an inspiration to and springboard for a new generation of heroes. Fans have noticed Snyder’s cut features an appreciably more diverse cast than the theatrical cut, literalizing Superman’s status as a metaphorical minority character. Even Barry Allen’s description of himself as “a very attractive israeli boy” evokes the popular reading of Superman as a uniquely israeli character.
Joss Whedon’s theatrical cut of Justice League offers its audience reheated leftovers of an iconic portrayal of the Man of Steel, a hollow invocation of a beloved take. It attempted to reassure viewers that Superman was as strong or as fast as any of the heroes that followed him. However, as Silas narrates in the film’s final act, “The world is not fixed in the past, but the future.” Zack Snyder’s Justice League understands that Superman’s real strength is as an idea and an inspiration — not what was, but what could yet be.
>Movie with Batman as a supporting role flops harder than movie with Superman for 20 seconds
Really makes you think
>But even all that doesn't compare to two disastrous humiliations of the 2000s. By far the biggest is Superman Returns, which flopped at the box office
Returns made more than Batman Begins
Begins had a much smaller budget, so it was profitable while Returns was not. This is why it got two billion-dollar sequels while Returns' sequels were immediately canned.
I prefer Superman over Batman, Batman is as lame ,overhyped, as his stupid fans, analyze the Batman Fandom, cringe as frick,
Frick Batman
Frick his fans
Frick Snyder
80s had Superman movies.
90s had animated and Lois & Clark.I
00s had Smallville.
All of these were popular.
>80s had Superman movies.
3 out of 5 of them were bombs and left the IP as a laughingstock and box office poison, to be killed for 20 years until it could bomb for a fourth time.
>90s had animated and Lois & Clark.I
the animated series that had 54 episodes (less than half of Batman's), 1/10 of which were Batman crossovers, then got canceled for a Batman spin-off that proceeded to run longer on its own? Followed by another animated series where he got repeatedly cucked and jobbed to literally everyone?
>00s had Smallville.
Smallville is basically the character's only unqualified success in 40 years yes.
Superman started to die completely when Spiderman became popular (way more relatable to boys) Batman is still going because his fricking amazing villians and sidekicks
but Spider-Man's been popular since basically a few years after he was created.
Spiderman 2002
for me it was spider-man 2000
>The result was that Superman remained a nobody to millennials
not true, I'm a millennial and I liked watching smallville as a child.
Snyder completely and utterly destroyed Superman with his edgy alien slow motion porn. I fricking hate Gunn but i hope he succeeds with his movie
You're going to get what you deserve.
Bullshit, Batman is basically Superman now, in comics batman is unbeatable, and in movies as well now.
In The Flash, Batman is able to take rapid fire bullets to the back and doesnt flinch. If superman wasnt popular for the last 40 years then why the frick turn batman from a human into a superhuman god.
Superman is Americana and modern day Hollywood hates America, so they will never give him his due.
MoS nerfed him and had him start off as a brooding guy, but once he wears the suit, Superman becomes more confident and on the road to being a more classic version of Superman, his powers grow immensely in the last act.
for me the real problem is they keep portraying superman as unlikeable.
i don't give a frick about clark kent, for all intents and purposes his life is awesome and he barely has real struggles
compare this to the MCU, even if you hate those movies, you have to admit they spent time making you care about most of the protagonists.
we can see steve rogers get shit on by fate when he's a frail man who will never be able to live out his dream of killing nazis. even after he becomes a superhero his life is still in turmoil, he can't get over his lost love and can't form new romantic relationships as shown in winter soldier.
the world governments try to encroach into his domain by making him accountable to them, and he has a genuine problem trying to get out it.
cavill's superman appearing in front of congress or whatever felt like a sham. he was just going along with it out of amusement if anything. this wasn't a genuine source of stress to him that is going to cause him to lose sleep.
look at what this anon said:
even when batman becomes too powerful I still care what happens to him because he is sympathetic. bale's batman chooses another man over him and then is murdered while he is tricked into thinking he can save her, then he's humiliated and tortured by bane and betrayed by his love interest yet again. pattinson's batman can not outwit a madman and is forced to be two steps behind as bodies keep piling up, all in a city where corruption is running rampant and he barely makes progress in his war on crime
one of the fundamental aspects of film is you have to give the audience a reason to care about the characters, but in the recent superman movies I didn't give a shit whether anybody lived or died.
ok thanks for coming to my ted talk remember to like comment and subscribe
Superman is still one of the most talked about superheroes even though he rarely gets good movies.
Honestly, Captain America mogs Superman in every single way.
DC characters have never been relatable. Especially, Superman. Instead of nerfing him over the decades, they OP'd him beyond imagination.
MOS was the first Superman film that didn't embarrass itself in the Box Office for like, literal decades. I don't think people understand the complete humiliation that was Returns. A lot of people wonder "Why Superman isn't popular with Gen Z" and the answer is Superman Returns. Man of Steel outgrossed all of the MCU Phase 1 aside from Avengers. The fan debates about MOS are well known, but among the GA? It was simply a cool movie about a good man who could fly and punch really hard. And that is what people like, they want Superman being Super. Its not that hard to understand, despite the multiple youtube essay videos. Dragon Ball is one of the most successful IPs because its all about good guys who can fly and punch really hard. Its a winning formula.
>don't think people understand the complete humiliation that was Returns.
I think you're overstating it because it made about the same as X-2. The only reason Returns is considered a failure was because of the budget