Unicorn helps explain the Federation's complete lack of political legitimacy by the time of F91 and Unicorn. private companies like the Buch Concern and rouge elements from Side 2 and Jupiter had plenty of room to flex their muscles while the EFSF stood by until absolutely neccisary.
He can't, because not only is there none, it doesn't even make sense that they'd retcon one of their most successful series ever; especially when they've already announced a sequel to it, abd released a sequel movie not long before Hathaway. His "proof" is that it's not directly referenced. In which case F91 retconned Char's Counterattack, and Victory retconned F91.
Visuals-wise Unicorn is mostly good aside from the shit CG of the Unicorn itself, it's not helped by the fact that half the time it just floats around and does nothing.
Story-wise though, it's pretty crap. Shit characters with shit motivations are plenty, it has My Immortal tier backstory writing for some characters like Marida, and then it has dumb shit like travelling through time which is unprecedented shit in UC.
I mostly agree that none of Gundam is that bad, but I also think that none of Gundam is that good either. Most other mecha shows and franchises are much better, I think.
The more i look at UCgays, the more i'm convinced that every UCgays are on copium and refuse to admit they are watching Japanese cartoons about giant robots. They think their precious UC is realistic gritty most mature giant robot shows ever and every other giant robot with Super Robot tag slapped on are for kids, even when those Super Robots are softcore snuff films.
That's just gundamgays in general. Maybe if they watched anything aside from Gundam they'd grow out of it. Also using "super" and "real" robot tags just perpetuates that myth further. There really isn't a clear divide. Mazinger Z's abilities aren't really that much more difficult to believe than the RX-78s.
There is only one meaningful place where "real robot" matters, and that's as a shorthand for "upgrade mobility instead of armour" in SRW. (And "can equip additional weapons" in OG)
>Maybe if they watched anything aside from Gundam they'd grow out of it.
lmao no. Most mecha anime is shitty anyway. Even VOTOMS has gay ass space Black person magic and it's considered OH SO SUPERIOR to gundam.
NT really shits on the bed that Unicorn pissed in. Unicorn leaves an (albeit moronic) note to go out on. The point was "oh nobody gives a shit about newtypes because people are morons and nothing will ever change" IE Char was right but Amuro can wait for them to change. But NT then has to go full moron with time traveling psychoplates or whatever. Adds nothing and closes a loophole that doesn't need closed. It would have been easy to just fall back on the Fed sealing almost everything in this timeframe because they refuse to acknowledge the existence of new types.
Hathaway's Flash I think is even more pointless than Unicorn but it's okay because it's more of a blurb in history
Well I guess I shouldn't say that, because if I recall then Hathaway's Flash basically sets the tone for "oh wait a minute, AE are the real criminals of the UC" but since nothing at all comes from this since nobody gives a shit about late UC...kind of a mess.
>Hathaway's Flash basically sets the tone for "oh wait a minute, AE are the real criminals of the UC"
No they're not. Mafty is funded by a faction within the federation. AE is literally paid through feddie sources to provide mafty with MS. Even if they traced everything back it would just lead straight back to the federation. They're just paid to deliver the goods
> The point was "oh nobody gives a shit about newtypes because people are morons and nothing will ever change" IE Char was right but Amuro can wait for them to change
phoenix + banshee are cringe and miss the point of unicorn's name/having it's appearance being based the mythical beast having subtext to it's meaning
unicorn is alright and looks great when not in super robot mode
if it's meme strength and not design you're trying to go after you should be pointing your finger to Kamille and Jadau. One being a mary sue that is goku levels of new type & engineer that only gets humbled because the writer wanted to commit suicide and the other is the typical Shoujo-protagonist using the power of friendship to take on Neo Zeon when the feddies simply refused to act due to greed/indifference
>banshee >misses the point of unicorn's name/having it's appearance being based the mythical beast having subtext to it's meaning
I see you either didn't watch Unicorn or don't really know what you're talking about.
I still don't understand why they didn't name the thing "chimera". Fits the lion motif, same number of letters as "unicorn", and brings to mind some sort of tortured monstrosity made in a lab. Which contrasts well with unicorns being free and all that.
On that note "Phenex" should've just been "phoenix" because that's also seven letters.
A phoenix doesn't even fit in with the reference to the lady and the unicorn, the third animal that appears in the tapestries is a monkey, and even then it's pretty minor compared to the lion and the unicorn.
A phoenix doesn't even fit in with the reference to the lady and the unicorn, the third animal that appears in the tapestries is a monkey, and even then it's pretty minor compared to the lion and the unicorn.
The Phenex is made by the federation, not Anaheim, although they did get the psycoframe from AE. The motif thing even comes up in its original origin story.
Here's the thing, though:
The dialogue in the show talks about a white unicorn and a black lion. But the actual painting (it's real, btw) shows a white unicorn and a *white* lion. Even when you see the painting in the anime it's like that. It's only on the cover of the soundtrack album that they actually made the lion black to match the dialogue. The real problem comes (or does it?) from the name Banshee. The Bean Sidhe (that's how it was originally spelled) is the spirit of a faerie woman who lost her children in battle. She kneels by a river washing bloody clothes and crying. The two words, Bean Sidhe, literally mean "crying fairy".
The Unicorn gores newtypes on its horn.
The Banshee wails for the newtypes who lost their lives throughout the Universal Century.
The Phenex is the newtype reborn.
The Unicorn gores newtypes on its horn.
The Banshee wails for the newtypes who lost their lives throughout the Universal Century.
The Phenex is the newtype reborn.
>The Banshee wails
But in the anime they talk about the box being guarded by a unicorn and a lion, like it shows in the famous painting.
This is such a sloppy attempt at making a cool parallel.
The literal last two episodes of Zeta introduce the concept that the Zeta Gundam can just get a DBZ-esque power boost by adsorbing the souls of the restless dead. With energy aura and everything.
The more i look at UCgays, the more i'm convinced that every UCgays are on copium and refuse to admit they are watching Japanese cartoons about giant robots. They think their precious UC is realistic gritty most mature giant robot shows ever and every other giant robot with Super Robot tag slapped on are for kids, even when those Super Robots are softcore snuff films.
Bruh, this board is literally stuck in time and still gets upset over decade old shitposts, I'd be fricking embarassed to base my self worth on being a /m/ native.
Suppressing the original version of the charter makes no sense in a digital age. We're talking about a document that would have had to go through hundreds, if not thousands, of official channels and would have inevitably found its way online through both those channels and unofficial ones.
And even if the feds did have the power to significantly supress it why the frick are they so afraid of the original charter leaking when they can just as easily say the "original" is a load of bullshit and there isn't any real way to prove them wrong.
Every government documents have hidden watermark/digital code to be not mistaken as frauds. The leak of something as fatal as the box can cause absolute chaos, since there will be multiple mini factions rise, civil disturbance and internal purging inside the feds. The box is also a valuable tool for higher ups of Federation who allowed to access the document. They can use the myth around it and the info inside it to manipulate and assume control of other politicans, even the federation itself.
"load of bullshit" in this instance is most likely meaning that Post-OYW Federation could literally just say that the original version of the charter has no modern day baring as it has obviously been revised several times since its original signing. Him talking about there being multiple copies of the original has more to do with the fact that this clause wouldn't be some massive secret at all; some random office server or new article would have a copy of it. Hiding it in a magical box isn't going to keep someone from stumbling across a copy of it when it was first being ratified in some senator's personal files.
It's essentially as if The United States government was trying to hide the original paper version of the Articles of Confederation to suppress the Sovereign Citizens movement because its existence would immediately give them justification for their actions.
Yeah it is not as easy as you say. Earth Fed is literally every governments on Earth. They absolutely assassinate anyone who they suspect of having the document, or bribe them with some benefits to shut their mouth. Also, i believe in Unicorn, most of the people who were involved, had copies of the document inside the box are all dead. Only Earth Federation has access to documents inside it and has been using it to threaten each others.
Also, this Laplace stuff were not retconed and eventually Earth Fed collapsed by the era of G-Savior.
2 years ago
Anonymous
You greatly underestimate administrative incompetence and greatly overestimate the Federation's ability to keep things secret. As a clerk myself, I've had dozens of sensitive documents get accidentally emailed to me because my name is one letter off from a director in another department. There's literally no way an government that comprises EVERY country on Earth wouldn't constantly have these oopsies. And on that note, an organization that somehow has to time to sweep the entire planet of evidence of a single document (especially in a digital world) and kill anyone even suspected of having a copy sure has a really shitty track record of letting their most important pieces of military hardware get covertly filmed or outright stolen.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Ya but how many times have you leaked those sensitive documents? How many times have you even given a shit about their contents? Beaurcratic incompetence often has a band-aid put on it by human apathy. You are severely underestimating people's ability to not care about anything.
> And even if the feds did have the power to significantly supress it why the frick are they so afraid of the original charter leaking when they can just as easily say the "original" is a load of bullshit and there isn't any real way to prove them wrong.
Because little things like "proof" don't matter if you feel slighted; just the insinuation that there was some original charter would, in and of itself, be casus belli to some folks. The Federation saying "no, this doesn't actually matter" would just make it matter more as a cause to them, because it'd indicate some further kind of cover up or conspiracy beyond what they see or know about.
Eh, I don't like Unicorn because it essentially outright says that the land Amuro and Lalah saw would never be achieved and humanity will burn itself out through endless bloodshed.
No, it doesn't. Frontal's magical time ride doesn't even say "and so humans will keep fighting forever"; it was basically just nihilism i.e. "eventually the universe will end anyway, so what does anything we do matter?". Humans could evolve past war within that time frame. His point isn't they can't; just that it won't matter, because time will still end. Banana's refutation being, essentially, "so what" i.e. "our actions matter not because of some ultimate destination, but because of the good they do in the here and now". None of which invalidates a thing from 0079 or Char's Counterattack, and if anything, Banana's point is ultimately just reiterating Amuro's point that humans can change on their own given enough time.
After everything the federation does up to that point, I don't think a piece of paper that conveniently gives rights to newtypes before newtypes even existed as a concept would make them say sorry and move on. It's good that Hathaway essentially retcons it
You have to completely ignore G Gundam's entire back story to conclude that any point of UC can lead into FC. FC is only 64 years old at the time of the show and it literally started with individual earth nations establishing space colonies and basically world war 3. It directly contradicts both the UC backstory and timeline.
People who say this tend to be stupid enough to miss the part where the conspiracy was never about the text of the Inclusion Clause, but rather that a bunch of Federation elites conspired to kill off a PM they didn't agree with to begin with, then pinned the blame on disgruntled colonist-migrants. It's hammered in with zero subtlety that anyone who wants to make it about newtypes and a spacenoid destiny denied are out of their goddamned minds.
Saying you dislike Unicorn is annoying because every time you do, you get lumped in with the fricking morons who hate it for the dumbest shit (POWER LEVELS BAD THIS CONSPIRACY DOESN'T MAKE SENSE REEEEE DESTROY MODE LOOKS SO DUMB WHY IS THERE SPACE MAGIC IN THIS SEQUEL TO CCA).
I think Unicorn is bad to middling because of a variety of stuff dragging it down: it's an unfaithful adaptation, missing exposition on what was going on with the Unicorn absorbing various peoples' souls throughout the series, Banagher is so dull his most notable characteristic is being a SOREDEMO bot at the end, the weird leg designs on a lot of the new MS, episode 7 not taking the chance to show the Zeta, ZZ, and V2, and so on.
Anyone who complains that the original charter wouldn't have any meaning today outs themselves a fricking secondary who couldn't even be assed to watch the show he's complaining about. Banagher and Audrey's first reaction when they see what's in the box is disbelief that people have died for something so fricking worthless. The Federation was never seriously worried that Newtypes would use the original charter to claim greater political power. They were worried that giving the Zeon remnants even the slightest, tiniest, most insignicant triva-esque justification would reignite that Zeon patriotism and throw the world into another OYW. And they have every right to fear that, because Zeon is fricking insane. That's the entire reason why when Audrey reveals the charter at the end, she begs everyone listening to please not use it as motivation to do anything stupid.
All of this is blindingly obvious to anyone who WATCHED THE FRICKING SHOW, and yet to this day people talk about Laplace's Charter like Newtypes were gonna use it to become the presidents of the Earth Sphere or some shit. It's maddening and I can't even believe it's all just shitposting anymore because it's gone on for so long.
>Anyone who complains that the original charter wouldn't have any meaning today outs themselves a fricking secondary who couldn't even be assed to watch the show he's complaining about. Banagher and Audrey's first reaction when they see what's in the box is disbelief that people have died for something so fricking worthless. The Federation was never seriously worried that Newtypes would use the original charter to claim greater political power. They were worried that giving the Zeon remnants even the slightest, tiniest, most insignicant triva-esque justification would reignite that Zeon patriotism and throw the world into another OYW. And they have every right to fear that, because Zeon is fricking insane. That's the entire reason why when Audrey reveals the charter at the end, she begs everyone listening to please not use it as motivation to do anything stupid. >All of this is blindingly obvious to anyone who WATCHED THE FRICKING SHOW, and yet to this day people talk about Laplace's Charter like Newtypes were gonna use it to become the presidents of the Earth Sphere or some shit. It's maddening and I can't even believe it's all just shitposting anymore because it's gone on for so long.
Finally, someone gets it. Audrey exposed it for it to lose its significance.
This is unrelated to the rest of the post, which I think you bring up good points in, but I just wanted to comment on the arguments you hate hearing.
>POWER LEVELS BAD
On one hand I agree that this is a bit of a stupid complaint, but on the other it's a bit ridiculous how the Unicorn is literally some God machine of UC despite us seeing hundreds of years into the future and seeing nothing like it. Even if you don't call G-Saviour canon, the Unicorn has like the same powers as Turn A which came thousands of years later. It's like the Mary Sue Gundam, essentially. And it's wasted on a really shitty mecha design. >THIS CONSPIRACY DOESN'T MAKE SENSE REEEEE
I mean it's a bit convoluted but it makes sense, I just think it's a weak motivation and I don't particularly like how it has implications for the rest of UC. You explained it pretty well, but to be honest I never got that impression and I watched it twice. I guess I just lost interest since I dislike Banagher greatly. >DESTROY MODE LOOKS SO DUMB WHY IS THERE
It has the same colours as a used tampon. It's ugly as frick and ruins an already middling design. >SPACE MAGIC IN THIS SEQUEL TO CCA
Absolutely agree that this is a stupid as frick argument. People complaining about newtype bullshit are fricking idiots, and usually underaged morons thinking they are more mature than they are for watching "realistic" shows. Newtype bullshit is what makes UC interesting. I don't like how exaggerated the abilities are in comparison to what we've already seen, and I say that as someone who loves CCA's ending, but I don't loathe newtypes like some morons on this shitty board.
I think it's funny that people complain about Destroy Mode so much when FA Unicorn is right there and way more moronic on every level. Plan B/Perfectibility look almost as bad.
Unicorn was a gimmick design that accomplished its gimmick well enough to be turned into multiple toys. Disliking how it looks is fine, but it's about on the level as saying you don't like how VFs look like planes transformed into humanoids. Which again is fair enough, different strokes for different blokes and all that, but it's not some major sin. And I especially dislike how these days, the "cool" opinion I see parroted by countless NPCs is to think Unicorn Mode looks nice but Destroy Mode looks bad. Every time I ask why they think that, they can only give me some vague answer like "it ruins the design" or "it looks too Gundamy". As if it weren't the entire point that it transforms from a simpler shape into a regular Gundam.
Unicorn as a series is pretty solid though. I'll concede that it's very preachy, but it does offer a decent, albeit unnecessary, closure on the Zeonic wars.
As for the actual mechs, Banshee and Phenex are ugly as frick, but the Unicorn is okay. The newtype psychic bullshit has always been bad, but it's not like UC is the only one guilty of this.
Did you miss Full Frontal's wild time ride? Even after the heat death of the universe there's still hope left.
I'll always give the time travel at the end credit for one thing. It was the author literally making the characters go BEYOND THE TIME. That's the kind of goofy fanfic bullshit I can't entirely hate.
Fukui said Unicorn can travel beyond time and reality. One mistake and the robot can collapse the dimension itself. Meanwhile Phenex was meant to be a safety button for Unicorm.
>And I especially dislike how these days, the "cool" opinion I see parroted by countless NPCs is to think Unicorn Mode looks nice but Destroy Mode looks bad.
I agree with this but not necessarily the general thrust of this argument. I think both look bad but Destroy mode is definitely worse. It has shit colours and is an exceedingly busy design. It's probably the worst lead Gundam in the whole franchise. And FA unicorn is just Unicorn with more shitty guns added on top, it's not even worth considering as a separate design but it's just as ugly. And yes, it's not some major sin, but it's not exactly going to endear me to a show I don't like and it's just another point of criticism. Good designs don't save bad shows but bad designs can bring down good shows, who wants to watch a shitty robot design doing anything? The redesign of Xi Gundam made me less interested in the Hathaway movie, which I ultimately did enjoy but I still dislike the redesign.
2 years ago
Anonymous
The FA Unicorn being just the unicorn with more guns is honestly a huge let down. The perfectability design being the same thing but even more guns is even more of a let down. I don't dislike the idea of a Gundam with glowy bits but I just don't like the destroy mode's look when everything is opened up, I find the proportions to be bad. Meanwhile the normal unactivated unicorn has better proportions imo. I feel like if you just stuck a more distinct monoeye in it or something and didn't have it be a massive gimmick, it could work as a design unto itself as some one-off weird newtype use machine based on the Nu that was just called the Unicorn.
Honestly the greatest sin off Unicorn to the UC timeline as a whole I think is the not destruction of the Unicorn/Banshee at the end and also it's attempts to have some political message within the setting. Delete the political message that was attempted to be propagated and have the Unicorn an Banshee be destroyed and it would work as an event that got covered up. Even the fricking Nu and Sazabi were destroyed thus justifying why stuff like Axis shock level newtype stuff isn't seen that much later on, Unicorn just disrespects this and keeps the Unicorn gundam around just in case they want to do skms crazy bullshit later on which is dumb
Oh it's been obvious for a while some people here didn't watch Unicorn so much as experience it vicariously through shitty threads here. It's transcended shitposting to become the emobidment of a lie told often enough becoming someone else's truth.
What honestly baffles me is why Gundam attracts such a peculiar strain of idiocy, like it isn't even about the works in question any more but rather MY TEAM GOOD YOUR TEAM SUCK hooliganism.
>Anyone who complains that the original charter wouldn't have any meaning today outs themselves a fricking secondary who couldn't even be assed to watch the show he's complaining about. Banagher and Audrey's first reaction when they see what's in the box is disbelief that people have died for something so fricking worthless. The Federation was never seriously worried that Newtypes would use the original charter to claim greater political power. They were worried that giving the Zeon remnants even the slightest, tiniest, most insignicant triva-esque justification would reignite that Zeon patriotism and throw the world into another OYW. And they have every right to fear that, because Zeon is fricking insane. That's the entire reason why when Audrey reveals the charter at the end, she begs everyone listening to please not use it as motivation to do anything stupid. >All of this is blindingly obvious to anyone who WATCHED THE FRICKING SHOW, and yet to this day people talk about Laplace's Charter like Newtypes were gonna use it to become the presidents of the Earth Sphere or some shit. It's maddening and I can't even believe it's all just shitposting anymore because it's gone on for so long.
Finally, someone gets it. Audrey exposed it for it to lose its significance.
are we just going to ignore the fact that releasing information that would lead to the sparking of an insane amount of Zeon nationalism for lack of a better term and then saying "hey guys but this doesn't matter" is moronic and demonstrates that either the writing is deliberately shitty or that the writers do not understand how humans work and don't understand how that totally wouldn't guarantee that the next 100 years of UC was just engulfed in more Zeon conflicts as they are totally justified and who gives a shit what some dumbass girl has to say about it, Zabi or not. This is just bad writing on a basic rational level
Mineva is the last remaining princess of Zeon. That means something if you're a die-hard Zeon patriot. The idea is that she is the only person capable of safely revealing the original charter because anyone who would be motivated to go continue the holy war would also automatically be a Mineva simp.
If you think that doesn't make any sense, sure. But it's the same reason Cecily was able to restart the Crossbone Vanguard, so don't give me any "the writer is moronic" shit unless you're ready to lampoon your precious Tomino. Space nobility is a big thing for UC villains.
i've come to accept that most people on /m/ and in the west in general have had their opinions about UC Gundam series totally informed by the dub broadcasts of 0083, 0080, and 08th MS Team on cartoon network.
they grew up on the 80s military otaku fad phase of Gundam and think it's what gundam really is instead of the "newtype space magic bullshit" when in reality those series are the outliers compared to most of the UC entries in the franchise
Eh, I don't like Unicorn because it essentially outright says that the land Amuro and Lalah saw would never be achieved and humanity will burn itself out through endless bloodshed.
Unicorn as a series is pretty solid though. I'll concede that it's very preachy, but it does offer a decent, albeit unnecessary, closure on the Zeonic wars.
As for the actual mechs, Banshee and Phenex are ugly as frick, but the Unicorn is okay. The newtype psychic bullshit has always been bad, but it's not like UC is the only one guilty of this.
Did you miss Full Frontal's wild time ride? Even after the heat death of the universe there's still hope left.
>Even after the heat death of the universe there's still hope left.
Genuinely depressing, considering that even by the time of G-Deco, humanity hasn't learned its lesson. Hope happening a trillion trillion trillion years from now doesn't lessen the pain of everyone dying without ever seeing that hope.
Isn't the point that war doesn't last forever and people will always try to find peace? It's delusional to believe there will ever be a world completely free of conflict. [Spoiler]That would also mean they'd need to stop milking UC.[/spoiler]
Honestly, I kind of think it is necessary to give closure because even just sticking to Tomino shows you still have Zeon rising up twice more following the Principality's defeat; which implies that Zeon as an organization or philosophy has some kind of attraction to people. Which nothing Tomino made really explored. Nor did it really explain why it just stopped all of a shot after two further uprisings. No, Char's Counterattack doesn't do that, since nothing Char says or does is transmitted to anyone but Amuro and only a handful of mobile suit pilots help push Axis, while we see people aboard the Neo Zeon ships mourning Char's death and Axis being stopped. Not to mention all the people in the various Sides that had supported Neo Zeon according to the movie having seen or heard nothing to change their mind.
Everyone in this thread keeps cutting the Zeta Gundam's bio sensor as evidence of the fact that UC was always cringe DBZ power level newtype magic bullshit and I've seen it so many times now I can't decide whether y'all are stupid or willfully ignorant of how it works. The bio sensor of the Zeta Gundam does not make newtype ghosts, it simply stores the emotions of the pilots the Zeta has faced and when released, give off the appearance of those people. They didn't come back from the dead to help Kamille scare the crap out of Sirocco, it's just manifestations of these people's emotions that look like them. The real newtype magic bullshit event was Amuro stopping the fall of axis which is described as a miracle or "shock" and is an event that has alot of gravity(no pun intended) attributed to it. Unicorn and the newtype bullshit that happens is a total misstep in the series for devolving it down to ridiculous super power marvel tier schlock. The newtype bullshit in UC is crazy, but there has always been a natural progression to it that made sense and it never got way to out of hand, Unicorn having the auras of newtypes clash is pure DBZ tier garbage lmao. Unicorn defenders just like defending trash
Katz and Sarah's "ghosts" argue over Scirocco; what exactly do you think that scene was meant to imply, if not that they are the actual remnant of those people?
[...]
are we just going to ignore the fact that releasing information that would lead to the sparking of an insane amount of Zeon nationalism for lack of a better term and then saying "hey guys but this doesn't matter" is moronic and demonstrates that either the writing is deliberately shitty or that the writers do not understand how humans work and don't understand how that totally wouldn't guarantee that the next 100 years of UC was just engulfed in more Zeon conflicts as they are totally justified and who gives a shit what some dumbass girl has to say about it, Zabi or not. This is just bad writing on a basic rational level
Yes? Cause that itself ignores that NOT releasing it just means that it'll continue to be a hidden conspiracy that remnants will chase the truth of, and will exaggerate the importance of if and when they find it. Mineva has some actual power over Zeon's future, so her coming out and going "look, it's fricking nothing" will dissuade at least some people. Which is more than not exposing it, and letting an extremist do so a few decades down the line will do. Mineva's gamble might not work, and might actually cause more conflict, but continuing to hide it isn't guaranteed to work either and might itself just cause another war in future. Which is also why she didn't side with Full Frontal, and frankly, was right in doing so.
>Zeon as an organization or philosophy has some kind of attraction to people
MSG, Z and CCA make it pretty clear though: it's an independence movement fueled by the Federation's corruption and mistreatment of the colonies. In that sense, it's something that is never going away until the Federation is either reformed of dissolves, with Victory (and G-Saviour, if you want to count that) pointing towards the latter. Zeon takes the leading role because of economic, political and military influence, but it's not difficult to imagine they would be too exhausted to keep going after CCA, as the Jupiter Empire and Zanscare later rise up to fill that role.
> In that sense, it's something that is never going away until the Federation is either reformed of dissolves, with Victory (and G-Saviour, if you want to count that) pointing towards the latter.
It did go away though, unless you want to say that Cosmo Babylonia and Zanscare are Zeon ideologies in at least spirit. The attraction of Zeon as a name/organization and flag to rally under just disappeared after Char's Counterattack if you take out Unicorn; which always seemed a little strange to me, so I like that Unicorn at least attempts to explain why people flocked to Zeon and why people abandoned doing so.
it's alright needs more colour separation other than just gold and blue + grey inner frame poking out. I think it's the fact it relies so much on the gold/blue contrast so much to look flashy that makes it look way too complicated when in reality it's not that much more than the regular unicorn with two shield booster type things on it's shoulders.
Look at the hiyaku Shiki for a goat all gold design. It's upper body is mostly blue, it's shins are open to split up the gold, there are noticeable highlights of red wherever a thruster/cable is needed and then it has writing on it to break up the gold even more so it isn't just 90% gold plating
if you got rid of it's "tails" and gave it a less garish v-fin/horn like unicorn's it'd feel a lot more restrained compared to what banshee becomes
Newhalf magic has always been deus ex machina starting with Zeta.
Shit Kamille pulled isn't any different from Unicron.
If you pretend otherwise you're either intellectually dishonest or plain dumb.
Alot of UCgays only bingewatch 8th MS Team and Hathaway. Unironically, Unicorn was the most return to roots-Gundam, bring back the concept of space ghos, Newtype's offensive psychic power and afterlife, something have been absent after Victory.
The whole personal conflict was caused because juliet's brother was obsessed with newshit magic.
Unless I'm mistaking it with other Gendum ova.
Shit it was so long ago.
I think you are, though I have no idea what one because I don't think there are any characters with a brother obsessed with Newtype magic in any UC animated productions, be they TV show, OVA or film. And no, I don't count Char as being obsessed, since it was only ever a superficial goal for him and he constantly uses and results in the deaths of some of the only Newtypes alive without any real introspection or change because of it.
Aina's brother was obsessed with creating a weapon to crack Jaburo he called the Apsalus. Which he had to build out of spare parts in the end because he had lost any support in Zeon for some reason. Which is honestly kind of silly, since he created the most powerful mobile unit bound gun in the entirety of UC Gundam from scraps. There's no other mobile unit use gun in any of UC even remotely as powerful. Not even by the time of Victory Gundam, nearly 100 years later. It cored a mountain using 3 Dom reactors, making it ridiculously efficient on top of overwhelming powerful.
The regular Unicorn is a fine design but I can't stand the Banshee. And I don't even want to acknowledge the third one
As for the series itself, it's very flawed but it's fine overall. Even with magic that dwarfs anything UC has done before or since and the weird conspiracy I still think Unicorn's biggest fault is that none of the characters are remotely interesting or likeable save one. It also fixates on the Gundams (and the Zeong) being important a bit too much. I prefer UC mobile suits to just be machines at the end of the day. The Unicorn is supposed to be a modern Grandpa, it invalidates contemporary weapons, but I always got the feeling the show was trying to push a feeling of reverance that was never there for other UC entry Gundams
I don't think Unicorn was that over-the-top for UC landscape. Because afterall, CCA, Zeta and ZZ went all out with Newtype magic, meanwhile Unicorn chickened out with every power display it did. This show makes you feel like, it could have been much crazier, but it hold itself back, from something supposed to be extremely crazy to a toned down version of Zeta and ZZ.
You're seriously mentally ill if you think Godcorn turning back time on an entire fleet of jegans is "held back", or the Neo Zeong magically exploding weapons at will and then decaying like it's made of organic matter at the end because Full Frontal gave up. Even the colony laser block, which is the least bullshit power in unicorn, is orders of magnitude more bullshit than anything in Z or ZZ. And NT doubles down on it by making the Phenex FTL and absorbing a magic nuclear reaction that would have destroyed an entire side
> NT doubles down on it by making the Phenex FTL and absorbing a magic nuclear reaction that would have destroyed an entire side
The Phenex is described as going "nearly" the speed of light; not faster than light, and the nuclear reaction itself wouldn't have destroyed the entirety of Side 6 going by dialogue; it'd just have destroyed the closest colonies, and the debris from them would have destroyed more colonies until the entire Side was destroyed by radiating damage from the closest colonies. A lot of which would then rain down on the Earth.
>The Phenex is described as going "nearly" the speed of light
Banagher states they couldn't catch up even going the speed of light when the Phenex flies off at the end.
>and the debris from them would have destroyed more colonies until the entire Side was destroyed by radiating damage from the closest colonies
The simulation clearly shows the blast engulfing side 6 and 1.
> Banagher states they couldn't catch up even going the speed of light when the Phenex flies off at the end.
Banagher is speaking after watching it move with his naked eye and only estimating probability; even then his statement doesn't contradict the idea it's not going FTL, since even moving at the speed of light you won't catch something else that is moving at that same speed. Which, together with the fact he can actually SEE the light of it's passage means it's probably not going faster than light. Hence why most things that depict FTL do so by having the thing going faster than light no longer move in normal space or be visible to people anymore.
When someone aboard the main ship measures the Phenex earlier in the film they state it's "nearly" the speed of light, not at or faster than it.
> The simulation clearly shows the blast engulfing side 6 and 1.
And the text in your own screen cap clearly says "nearby colonies" not "nearby Sides". We see 10 to 15 colonies in the vicinity of the explosion being described in the simulation, but the simulated explosions color is gradually losing intensity even on the zoomed in shot prior to your screencap; meaning the blast might radiate as far as Side 1, but it's not going to be strong enough to destroy anything at that distance going off what the characters say.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Banagher is speaking after watching it move with his naked eye and only estimating probability
You don't get to disagree with character statements. Not how this works, ever. If a show wants you to disagree it will make that clear to the viewer. This isn't something you get a say in. >together with the fact he can actually SEE the light of it's passage means
Not how light works either.
>And the text in your own screen cap clearly says "nearby colonies" not "nearby Sides". We see 10 to 15 colonies in the vicinity of the explosion being described in the simulation, but the simulated explosions color is gradually losing intensity even on the zoomed in shot prior to your screencap; meaning the blast might radiate as far as Side 1, but it's not going to be strong enough to destroy anything at that distance going off what the characters say.
It's 19 all of which are indicated as being engulfed in the blast. But the character saying "nearby colonies will be engulfed" doesn't contradict the rest of the simulation which shows two sides being engulfed in the blast radius. >but it's not going to be strong enough to destroy anything at that distance going off what the characters say.
No, this is just head canon and contradicts the simulation that we're shown, which clearly shows both Side 6 and 1 within the blast radius. The narration doesn't contradict that part at all. What you're saying is that the part of the show is wrong, which you don't have any right to say. The character also says that debris from 3 colonies will rain down on the earth, that doesn't contradict the simulation very clearly showing 19 being destroyed. It means the character narrated only a specific part of the simulation. You're trying to claim the show's information is wrong, which again, you have zero right to make this claim.
2 years ago
Anonymous
> You don't get to disagree with character statements. Not how this works, ever. If a show wants you to disagree it will make that clear to the viewer. This isn't something you get a say in.
Then it's a good thing I'm not doing that, since we also have a character with a computer measuring the Phenex's passage earlier in the film note that it's nearly at the speed of light; not at it or over it. Actually, by that measure, you're the one disagree with what the character is saying by stating that Banagher says it's moving faster than light when all he says is that Jona wouldn't catch it even moving at the speed of light. Which is not the same thing.
> Not how light works either.
No-one knows how light works for objects moving faster than light, but classical Einsteinian doctrine would be that to be moving at lightspeed you'd need to convert all your mass to energy (never mind faster than it) and even using analogues like objects travelling faster than sound or objects moving faster than light in a specific medium would suggest you'd still see them but only after they've already passed you; with your visual coming later the faster they're moving. We see the Phenex as it leaves, and even when we cut back to Banagher and Jona after the Mineva scene, we see it seconds later. So if it was travelling faster than light then it wasn't much faster than it.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>two different scenes is the same feat
I'm not even sure what you're trying to "discuss" here. By your own logic I can easily dismiss it by saying they don't have the instruments on a naval warship to accurately measure something moving at ~light speed speeds because nothing else in their universe does. Sentinel gives ballpark numbers for beams and it's below 10% the speed of light.
>We see the Phenex as it leaves
You have no way of confirming this because you'd still see the projected light from it. And after the cutaway the Phenex very clearly came back to Jonah without the Neo Zeong in tow. It's two completely different continuities. You're not even accurately describing what happened. It even flies back into Jonah's line of vision, as depicted when it flies across his visor.
I don't even see why you bothered commenting on my post when you're even outright lying about what happened in the show.
> But the character saying "nearby colonies will be engulfed" doesn't contradict the rest of the simulation which shows two sides being engulfed in the blast radius.
On the other hand, it does contradict the blast wave being noticeably less intense as it spreads outward and the wording of "nearby colonies" when referring to entire Sides would be just weird. Technically not actually a contradiction, but definitely an odd choice that minimizes the danger rather than communicating the actual intent.
> No, this is just head canon and contradicts the simulation that we're shown
No, it doesn't. We are shown the blast becoming less intense via the color gradually cooling. Which there's no reason to do if the explosion would destroy everything in it's path. Never mind that the simulation shows the explosion happening the midst of Side 6, but even the extremities of the explosion only travel about half way into the orbital radius of Side 1, and it's the orbital radius of the debris cloud the explosion would create moving through Side 1 that appears to be the larger problem even in the simulation.
>We are shown the blast becoming less intense via the color gradually cooling
Okay? >Which there's no reason to do if the explosion would destroy everything in it's path
You're just inserting more headcanon. The simulation very clearly shows the lowest intensity extremities of the expanding blast are more than enough to destroy a colony completely. It's even consistently color coded for visual convenience.
2 years ago
Anonymous
> By your own logic I can easily dismiss it by saying they don't have the instruments on a naval warship to accurately measure something moving at ~light speed speeds because nothing else in their universe does.
They do have the instruments to measure something moving slower though; which is their assessment.
> You have no way of confirming this because you'd still see the projected light from it.
We do see light projected from the Phenex as it shoots upwards.
> And after the cutaway the Phenex very clearly came back to Jonah without the Neo Zeong in tow.
Why would the Neo Zeong II be in tow when it had just exploded?
> The simulation very clearly shows the lowest intensity extremities of the expanding blast are more than enough to destroy a colony completely.
No, it doesn't. Several of the colonies that explode only explode once 3 or 4 color bands of the simulation have passed over them, and in the case of one of the furthest out colonies it appears to be destroyed because of remnants from other colonies hitting it and not because of the explosion itself.
You don't really get what i meant. No matter the stuff like Unicorn became a timelord or Neo Zeong being the stronkest MS evar! The characters and the story chickened out with its powerlevel promise. Yeah Unicorn units had to be dismantled and achieving Newtype godhood is bad!
Kamile and Judau are more comfortable with their powers. The story narrative didn't antagonize their superpowers.
>Kamile and Judau are more comfortable with their powers.
Kamille turned into a vegetable because he opened up his mind too much and absorbed malice/evil in order to defeat Scirocco. Tomino said so in some interview for one of the Zeta Gundam Historica magazines. Judau also only uses his powers a bit and then runs away to Jupiter to basically isolate himself. Banagher is the most comfortable with his powers. He gave up godhood but he's still a powerful newtype and flies around the planet shouting soredemo. Even without turning into the crystal unicorn he was still blocking most of the colony laser between the Unicorn and its shields. That's more impressive than anything Judau or Kamille ever did and he doesn't end up with mentally illness or become a recluse.
Kamille got better throughout ZZ, and by roughly the 2/3rds point is having psychic conversations with people hundreds of miles away, while guiding them through fights based on precognition. Judau left for Jupiter because he was sick of the Federation's hypocrisy; there's nothing indicating he ever stopped using his powers, or even became less empathic overall.
Banagher already lost his Unicorn Gundam, or you can say, it is traveling somewhere else in limbo and attatching to him spiritually. The narrative of Unicorn series is quite chickened out, unlike Zeta and ZZ where Newtypes can achieve something great permanently without the narrative tells you "cool power is bad!". One of the reason why i still consider Unicorn to be too grounded compares to the other 2.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Banagher already lost his Unicorn Gundam, or you can say, it is traveling somewhere else in limbo and attatching to him spiritually
He didn't lose it. We saw twice that it wasn't actually dismantled and is being kept in storage under mineva's control on Magallanica. So he has both his newtype powers and the Unicorn, and he didn't have to give anything up.
>unlike Zeta and ZZ where Newtypes can achieve something great permanently without the narrative tells you "cool power is bad!"
You didn't watch Zeta or ZZ did you? Kamille developed a mental illness from using his powers. And the only thing he achieved is personally killing Scirocco. The colony laser wiped out the Titans fleet, so he basically crippled himself for personal revenge.
>ZZ
Judau didn't do anything other than kill a virtually powerless Haman who lost most of her forces already and then isolated himself as a result. The civil war already devastated Neo Zeon and took it out of commission.
Compare that to Banagher who magically wins an ideological battle against Char's spirit and makes him kill himself and destroy his wish granting death machine made with technology from beyond the mortal dimension, and then blocks a colony laser, becomes a perfect life form, turns back time on an enemy fleet by himself, and comes back from it and gets to frick Mineva, cucking Riddhe. He had a perfect victory with no drawbacks or consequences and he got what he wants, to get the girl he's been chasing since the beginning of the show. Unicorn's ending is basically a bond film if the main villain kills himself because Bond is too amazing. Meanwhile Kamille loses Four, most of his friends, and becomes an invalid, and has to experience the full brunt of the misery of a colony drop because he's stuck in a hypersensitive state.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>He had a perfect victory with no drawbacks or consequences and he got what he wants, to get the girl he's been chasing since the beginning of the show.
Did you even actually watch Unicorn? He lost his father, Loni and Marida, as well as witnessing a bunch of deaths he didn't want to happen. Hooking up with Mineva was far from his only goal.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>father
Completely unrelated to his powers and doesn't even occur when he's a newtype or a pilot. If you're going to bring that up then also bring up Kamille's parents both dying, finding the dead colony that got gassed, having to kill any number of his enemies whom he didn't want to, might as well bring up being beat up for by Wong too. I mentioned Kamille's losses that are specifically significant as a newtype because he's sensitive to them and fuel his rage induced final battle with Scirocco. >Loni
Whom he had zero connection to whatsoever. He didn't lose anyone there. You could maybe make this case for the novelization, where they have a newtype flash of forming a family together, but in the animated continuity they're essentially strangers who have to travel together for a bit and Loni's character is totally rewritten to be inconsequential. >Marida
She's the only person out of the list he even remotely knows and they still had little interaction. Kamille chases after Four since the moment they meet and it's clear they're in love and her death comes as a direct consequence of their connection because she quite literally takes a beam saber for him. Marida doesn't even die for Banagher, if anything she dies to break the spell over Riddhe because her death clears his mind. You might as well add Daguza to that list too since Banagher got mad over the death of a guy with whom he had an antagonistic relationship almost the entire time. >well as witnessing a bunch of deaths he didn't want to happen
You're not even making a point here. You're equating the death of strangers to close friends and comrades. The best part is Banagher didn't even know who his dad was until Cardeas just mentions it randomly before dying. By the way, Marida and the other sleeves started the fight and got his classmates killed. Are you going to mention that too even though Banagher forgets about them immediately?
Kamille snaps because he's the strongest Newtype and his power, particularly channeling the dead, is too much for his body to physically take.
https://desuarchive.org/m/thread/19689730/#19690093
2 years ago
Anonymous
That's from 機動戦士ガンダム ニュータイプ伝説ぴあ a book published by a leisure lifestyle magazine publisher. Fukui said Banagher and Jonah achieved the perfect newtype form. Kamille isn't the strongest by default seeing as he never achieved that. That's just clinging to old statements by Tomino which Sunrise clearly doesn't acknowledge. Feat wise it's plain to see Kamille isn't the strongest.
2 years ago
Anonymous
In fact, a few posts down in your archive. >>>then Fukui has written that nobody else in the Universal Century except Kamille Bidan has come closer to being a true newtype
https://ascii.jp/elem/000/001/849/1849634/3/ >> In "UC", the Unicorn Gundam's fuselage is fused with the soul of Banagher, a human being who is close to a true Newtype, and fully awakens. As a result, the fuselage was able to evolve into its ultimate ideal form, becoming so all-powerful that it could tear apart any weapon. But Banagher didn't like it and came back to the human world with Mineva, that's the general story. >Banagher fusing with the Unicorn doesn't just awaken as a true newtype, he becomes the ideal being. Capable of rending space and time if he didn't return to being human. He literally says that, that it could collapse the universe.
Kamille doesn't require Psycoframe or even the Bio Sensor to achieve huge Newtype feats, he does them on his own. Now imagine if he had contact with a Unicorn.
2 years ago
Anonymous
He requires the Zeta Gundam to do so, this isn't even something that needs clarification. Emma outright tells him as she's dying in his arms that the Zeta Gundam has the ability to turn other peoples' souls and will into power. And the key part of this statement is that it's not even Kamille's own power, the power is actually coming from the dead people watching over him in a similar sense to the Axis Shock being a result of concentrated human will. Statements from the show throw a wet towel all over Kamille's newtype feats, because it's not his own ability, it's the Zeta's and it's not his own power, it's the power of other people surrounding him. Banagher, on the other hand, gets a pep talk from Marida's ghost and becomes a god.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Anon, did you forget ZZ?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Telepathy and sensing danger is such a basic newtype ability that even the White Base kids were accurately guiding Amuro through the ruins of A Boa Qu, avoiding danger, from hundreds if not thousands of kilometers away. By that metric would you consider Ezelcant from AGE the strongest newtype? He communicated with Zeheart from Mars.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I actually forgot another one of Fukui's characters. Rita. Not only did she see the colony drop coming like days away so everyone could get to safety. At the ending of NT it's revealed she had seen so far into the future that she plotted everything, as a child, so that she could create the scenario in which she, Jonah, and Michelle could stop the Neo Zeong II. Is Kamille still the strongest newtype? By what metric?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Rita is probably the strongest newtype, considering that she can pilot a mobile suit despite being, y’know, dead.
2 years ago
Anonymous
She's not piloting the Phenex though, the Phenex entity is a distinctly separate being.
2 years ago
Anonymous
In fact, a few posts down in your archive. >>>then Fukui has written that nobody else in the Universal Century except Kamille Bidan has come closer to being a true newtype
https://ascii.jp/elem/000/001/849/1849634/3/ >> In "UC", the Unicorn Gundam's fuselage is fused with the soul of Banagher, a human being who is close to a true Newtype, and fully awakens. As a result, the fuselage was able to evolve into its ultimate ideal form, becoming so all-powerful that it could tear apart any weapon. But Banagher didn't like it and came back to the human world with Mineva, that's the general story. >Banagher fusing with the Unicorn doesn't just awaken as a true newtype, he becomes the ideal being. Capable of rending space and time if he didn't return to being human. He literally says that, that it could collapse the universe.
2 years ago
Anonymous
That's from 機動戦士ガンダム ニュータイプ伝説ぴあ a book published by a leisure lifestyle magazine publisher. Fukui said Banagher and Jonah achieved the perfect newtype form. Kamille isn't the strongest by default seeing as he never achieved that. That's just clinging to old statements by Tomino which Sunrise clearly doesn't acknowledge. Feat wise it's plain to see Kamille isn't the strongest.
Can Getter Emperor and Mazinger Zero even defeat Unicorn God Mode?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Feats vs. feats yes.
Speculative upper limits vs. speculative upper limits... they still win.
You pretty much have to pit only their existing feats vs. speculative god mode for Unicorn to win.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Both on speculative never destroys the entire dimensions.
Even Getter Emperor shown on Getter Robo Saga or any other works of Ken Ishikawa looks like universe tier when combining but never actually destroyed any universe
2 years ago
Anonymous
Right. And Unicorn never applied it's abilities in a way that's out of turn for what those two have dealt with.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Only Aquarion Logos Genesis the only omnipotent mecha that can defeat anyone.
> But the character saying "nearby colonies will be engulfed" doesn't contradict the rest of the simulation which shows two sides being engulfed in the blast radius.
On the other hand, it does contradict the blast wave being noticeably less intense as it spreads outward and the wording of "nearby colonies" when referring to entire Sides would be just weird. Technically not actually a contradiction, but definitely an odd choice that minimizes the danger rather than communicating the actual intent.
> No, this is just head canon and contradicts the simulation that we're shown
No, it doesn't. We are shown the blast becoming less intense via the color gradually cooling. Which there's no reason to do if the explosion would destroy everything in it's path. Never mind that the simulation shows the explosion happening the midst of Side 6, but even the extremities of the explosion only travel about half way into the orbital radius of Side 1, and it's the orbital radius of the debris cloud the explosion would create moving through Side 1 that appears to be the larger problem even in the simulation.
Everyone in this thread keeps cutting the Zeta Gundam's bio sensor as evidence of the fact that UC was always cringe DBZ power level newtype magic bullshit and I've seen it so many times now I can't decide whether y'all are stupid or willfully ignorant of how it works. The bio sensor of the Zeta Gundam does not make newtype ghosts, it simply stores the emotions of the pilots the Zeta has faced and when released, give off the appearance of those people. They didn't come back from the dead to help Kamille scare the crap out of Sirocco, it's just manifestations of these people's emotions that look like them. The real newtype magic bullshit event was Amuro stopping the fall of axis which is described as a miracle or "shock" and is an event that has alot of gravity(no pun intended) attributed to it. Unicorn and the newtype bullshit that happens is a total misstep in the series for devolving it down to ridiculous super power marvel tier schlock. The newtype bullshit in UC is crazy, but there has always been a natural progression to it that made sense and it never got way to out of hand, Unicorn having the auras of newtypes clash is pure DBZ tier garbage lmao. Unicorn defenders just like defending trash
Gaining power-ups via emotions alone is closer to DBZ than psychic ghosts powering a machine. Not that your headcanon about the Biosensor is right anyways.
>all this crying about newtype nonsense
I do wonder why you people even watch giant robot shows if you get bothered by pilot autism affecting the physical realm.
This. I really don't think people understand how boring it would be if the pilot had nothing special about them. It's something I came to appreciate when watching non-Gundam shit like VOTOMs and Dougram, where VOTOMs to me is far more compelling than Dougram. Chirico is way more interesting as a character because of his special abilities, while Crinn and his crew are really the least interesting thing in the whole show.
It's probably just teenagers who think they're super mature and cool because they want to watch grunts get ripped to shreds because that's so gritty and edgy.
Aesthetic also helps. Chirico actually designed to look like an adult and you can take him seriously with that, despite how he is not really old (about 18 to 20s ).
Victory, F91, Crossbone, and Hathaway are all way more interesting than Unicorn from a Gundam design perspective anyway imo. Way more interesting than just moar psychoframes
> Anons make endless complaints about narrative problems in Unicorn > People explain them > "Fricking plotgays!, just apologizing with narrative excuses and no real defense of it as art"
Narrative is art, by the way. Including as part of any audiovisual medium.
Honestly, I don't accept the canonicity of Unicorn solely because it was never written to BE part of official Gundan canon. If Blue Destiny or Gaia Gear could get anime, but I wouldn't suddenly consider them part of official canon.
Sunrise hired Fukui to write a novel with the specific intention of animating it according to Fukui in interviews. As noted in the Unicorn post animation pastebin: https://pastebin.com/eT7jMp7N
> UC becoming an anime was 100% confirmed from before he even started writing it
>Fukui has no idea how the moonlight butterfly works, says Tomino probably doesn't either >Also he thinks CCA's psychoframe's T stands for Tomino >Fukui: "So the psychoframe basically works on the same principles as Ideon, right?" >Tomino: (Nods)
Ideonite, Aura Power, Psychoframe, MLB, Overskill, etc.....
How does he get away with it?
No, I'm a snob about 0079, Zeta and ZZ
Rewatching 0079 now and moments like Amuro's Dad going mental or the sheer brutality of the initial Zeon attack (while not dramatically playing it up, using relatively little music and not having the characters sperg out too hard over it) are moments that remain untouched and unreached compared to even the best the rest of Gundam has to offer
Origin and Unicorn are a joke
No, I'm a snob about 0079, Zeta and ZZ
Rewatching 0079 now and moments like Amuro's Dad going mental or the sheer brutality of the initial Zeon attack (while not dramatically playing it up, using relatively little music and not having the characters sperg out too hard over it) are moments that remain untouched and unreached compared to even the best the rest of Gundam has to offer
Origin and Unicorn are a joke
Yes. You just need to cope by saying Tomino UC is the only UC, the rest is UC fan fiction.
Hathaway soft retconed Unicorn out of Tomino UC
How so
Unicorn retconned itself from the start because it has absolutely no impact on F91 or Victory whatsoever.
Hathaway's Flash had no impact on anything yet I don't see you being a moron saying it "retconned itself".
not him but HF is a side story just like Blue Destiny, Igloo and 0080 have no impact on anything else.
I mean, I don't like F91 nor Victory, so I kinda retconned THEM out of my worldview instead.
Unicorn helps explain the Federation's complete lack of political legitimacy by the time of F91 and Unicorn. private companies like the Buch Concern and rouge elements from Side 2 and Jupiter had plenty of room to flex their muscles while the EFSF stood by until absolutely neccisary.
i want to believe you but convince me with proof
He can't, because not only is there none, it doesn't even make sense that they'd retcon one of their most successful series ever; especially when they've already announced a sequel to it, abd released a sequel movie not long before Hathaway. His "proof" is that it's not directly referenced. In which case F91 retconned Char's Counterattack, and Victory retconned F91.
but the rest is fanfiction though
This but unironically. G-Reco is the final UC work and the finale of Gundam.
The patrician's option: you just don't watch anything released after G-Saviour.
Unicorn isn't even bad.
Most of Gundam is honestly really solid anime, you guys really don't realize how good you have it sometimes.
Visuals-wise Unicorn is mostly good aside from the shit CG of the Unicorn itself, it's not helped by the fact that half the time it just floats around and does nothing.
Story-wise though, it's pretty crap. Shit characters with shit motivations are plenty, it has My Immortal tier backstory writing for some characters like Marida, and then it has dumb shit like travelling through time which is unprecedented shit in UC.
I mostly agree that none of Gundam is that bad, but I also think that none of Gundam is that good either. Most other mecha shows and franchises are much better, I think.
That's just gundamgays in general. Maybe if they watched anything aside from Gundam they'd grow out of it. Also using "super" and "real" robot tags just perpetuates that myth further. There really isn't a clear divide. Mazinger Z's abilities aren't really that much more difficult to believe than the RX-78s.
There is only one meaningful place where "real robot" matters, and that's as a shorthand for "upgrade mobility instead of armour" in SRW. (And "can equip additional weapons" in OG)
>Maybe if they watched anything aside from Gundam they'd grow out of it.
lmao no. Most mecha anime is shitty anyway. Even VOTOMS has gay ass space Black person magic and it's considered OH SO SUPERIOR to gundam.
#
up Votoms
>>From the same company that brought Gundamshit into existence
"Real Robot" homosexualry can be categorized as a new form of autism.
Unicorn is really long winded and preachy yet it barely has anything new to say about the setting and it's politics.
NT really shits on the bed that Unicorn pissed in. Unicorn leaves an (albeit moronic) note to go out on. The point was "oh nobody gives a shit about newtypes because people are morons and nothing will ever change" IE Char was right but Amuro can wait for them to change. But NT then has to go full moron with time traveling psychoplates or whatever. Adds nothing and closes a loophole that doesn't need closed. It would have been easy to just fall back on the Fed sealing almost everything in this timeframe because they refuse to acknowledge the existence of new types.
Hathaway's Flash I think is even more pointless than Unicorn but it's okay because it's more of a blurb in history
Well I guess I shouldn't say that, because if I recall then Hathaway's Flash basically sets the tone for "oh wait a minute, AE are the real criminals of the UC" but since nothing at all comes from this since nobody gives a shit about late UC...kind of a mess.
Anaheim just makes what other people pay them for. The real mastermind behind everything in HF isn't from AE
>Hathaway's Flash basically sets the tone for "oh wait a minute, AE are the real criminals of the UC"
No they're not. Mafty is funded by a faction within the federation. AE is literally paid through feddie sources to provide mafty with MS. Even if they traced everything back it would just lead straight back to the federation. They're just paid to deliver the goods
AE was directly implicated in murdering half of the EF parliament members. I am sure that is more relevant than Mercenas Code Gundam
> The point was "oh nobody gives a shit about newtypes because people are morons and nothing will ever change" IE Char was right but Amuro can wait for them to change
You really missed everything Unicorn was saying.
Unicorn is not a bad anime by modern standards
Those standards are incredibly low though
phoenix + banshee are cringe and miss the point of unicorn's name/having it's appearance being based the mythical beast having subtext to it's meaning
unicorn is alright and looks great when not in super robot mode
if it's meme strength and not design you're trying to go after you should be pointing your finger to Kamille and Jadau. One being a mary sue that is goku levels of new type & engineer that only gets humbled because the writer wanted to commit suicide and the other is the typical Shoujo-protagonist using the power of friendship to take on Neo Zeon when the feddies simply refused to act due to greed/indifference
>One being a mary sue that is goku levels of new type & engineer that only gets humbled because the writer wanted to commit suicide
@Those are certainly all words!
>banshee
>misses the point of unicorn's name/having it's appearance being based the mythical beast having subtext to it's meaning
I see you either didn't watch Unicorn or don't really know what you're talking about.
ok, but it's name isn't leo is it
even the golden collar/mane was added later post novel
Unicorn is literally a unicorn by definition in the plot
I mean he's still correct even with this explanation.
A banshee, and a norn have nothing to do with a lion.
I still don't understand why they didn't name the thing "chimera". Fits the lion motif, same number of letters as "unicorn", and brings to mind some sort of tortured monstrosity made in a lab. Which contrasts well with unicorns being free and all that.
On that note "Phenex" should've just been "phoenix" because that's also seven letters.
A phoenix doesn't even fit in with the reference to the lady and the unicorn, the third animal that appears in the tapestries is a monkey, and even then it's pretty minor compared to the lion and the unicorn.
They call it a phoenix in NT anyways though.
The Phenex is made by the federation, not Anaheim, although they did get the psycoframe from AE. The motif thing even comes up in its original origin story.
Here's the thing, though:
The dialogue in the show talks about a white unicorn and a black lion. But the actual painting (it's real, btw) shows a white unicorn and a *white* lion. Even when you see the painting in the anime it's like that. It's only on the cover of the soundtrack album that they actually made the lion black to match the dialogue. The real problem comes (or does it?) from the name Banshee. The Bean Sidhe (that's how it was originally spelled) is the spirit of a faerie woman who lost her children in battle. She kneels by a river washing bloody clothes and crying. The two words, Bean Sidhe, literally mean "crying fairy".
The Unicorn gores newtypes on its horn.
The Banshee wails for the newtypes who lost their lives throughout the Universal Century.
The Phenex is the newtype reborn.
>The Banshee wails
But in the anime they talk about the box being guarded by a unicorn and a lion, like it shows in the famous painting.
And once the Banshee is upgraded with the Armed Armor XC (which looks like a mane when deployed), it's unmistakable what they were going for.
This is such a sloppy attempt at making a cool parallel.
Yeah lets ignore how UC has superhumans and space ghosts, afterlife and shiets, something even majority of AUs don't have.
The literal last two episodes of Zeta introduce the concept that the Zeta Gundam can just get a DBZ-esque power boost by adsorbing the souls of the restless dead. With energy aura and everything.
Judau defeated Haman with power of friendship. Let that sink.
The more i look at UCgays, the more i'm convinced that every UCgays are on copium and refuse to admit they are watching Japanese cartoons about giant robots. They think their precious UC is realistic gritty most mature giant robot shows ever and every other giant robot with Super Robot tag slapped on are for kids, even when those Super Robots are softcore snuff films.
Tominogays are dumb
>copium
but why would I care about what a tourist has to say?
I don't give a shit about realism, Unicorn is just shitty fanfic regardless.
Look you're making it obvious you're not a board native.
I'm glad that i'm not. This board reeks of Gundam autism and i usually just have fun in non-Gundam, non-SRW threads.
So why are you here then?
Bruh, this board is literally stuck in time and still gets upset over decade old shitposts, I'd be fricking embarassed to base my self worth on being a /m/ native.
back to twitter zoomer
slangs instead of trying to fight back the argument
It seems i'm right about UCgays
>>>
newbies need to go back
The entire concept of Laplace's Box is infinitely more moronic than any of the mechs in Unicorn/NT.
How so? It flips Earthnoid>Spacenoid dynamic which means that part of UC branches to become the Future Century universe.
Suppressing the original version of the charter makes no sense in a digital age. We're talking about a document that would have had to go through hundreds, if not thousands, of official channels and would have inevitably found its way online through both those channels and unofficial ones.
And even if the feds did have the power to significantly supress it why the frick are they so afraid of the original charter leaking when they can just as easily say the "original" is a load of bullshit and there isn't any real way to prove them wrong.
Every government documents have hidden watermark/digital code to be not mistaken as frauds. The leak of something as fatal as the box can cause absolute chaos, since there will be multiple mini factions rise, civil disturbance and internal purging inside the feds. The box is also a valuable tool for higher ups of Federation who allowed to access the document. They can use the myth around it and the info inside it to manipulate and assume control of other politicans, even the federation itself.
"load of bullshit" in this instance is most likely meaning that Post-OYW Federation could literally just say that the original version of the charter has no modern day baring as it has obviously been revised several times since its original signing. Him talking about there being multiple copies of the original has more to do with the fact that this clause wouldn't be some massive secret at all; some random office server or new article would have a copy of it. Hiding it in a magical box isn't going to keep someone from stumbling across a copy of it when it was first being ratified in some senator's personal files.
It's essentially as if The United States government was trying to hide the original paper version of the Articles of Confederation to suppress the Sovereign Citizens movement because its existence would immediately give them justification for their actions.
Yeah it is not as easy as you say. Earth Fed is literally every governments on Earth. They absolutely assassinate anyone who they suspect of having the document, or bribe them with some benefits to shut their mouth. Also, i believe in Unicorn, most of the people who were involved, had copies of the document inside the box are all dead. Only Earth Federation has access to documents inside it and has been using it to threaten each others.
Also, this Laplace stuff were not retconed and eventually Earth Fed collapsed by the era of G-Savior.
You greatly underestimate administrative incompetence and greatly overestimate the Federation's ability to keep things secret. As a clerk myself, I've had dozens of sensitive documents get accidentally emailed to me because my name is one letter off from a director in another department. There's literally no way an government that comprises EVERY country on Earth wouldn't constantly have these oopsies. And on that note, an organization that somehow has to time to sweep the entire planet of evidence of a single document (especially in a digital world) and kill anyone even suspected of having a copy sure has a really shitty track record of letting their most important pieces of military hardware get covertly filmed or outright stolen.
Ya but how many times have you leaked those sensitive documents? How many times have you even given a shit about their contents? Beaurcratic incompetence often has a band-aid put on it by human apathy. You are severely underestimating people's ability to not care about anything.
Try to find online documents that involves the israelite's actual wrong doing in the past, then. Pro tip: you can't
>digital age
> And even if the feds did have the power to significantly supress it why the frick are they so afraid of the original charter leaking when they can just as easily say the "original" is a load of bullshit and there isn't any real way to prove them wrong.
Because little things like "proof" don't matter if you feel slighted; just the insinuation that there was some original charter would, in and of itself, be casus belli to some folks. The Federation saying "no, this doesn't actually matter" would just make it matter more as a cause to them, because it'd indicate some further kind of cover up or conspiracy beyond what they see or know about.
No, it doesn't. Frontal's magical time ride doesn't even say "and so humans will keep fighting forever"; it was basically just nihilism i.e. "eventually the universe will end anyway, so what does anything we do matter?". Humans could evolve past war within that time frame. His point isn't they can't; just that it won't matter, because time will still end. Banana's refutation being, essentially, "so what" i.e. "our actions matter not because of some ultimate destination, but because of the good they do in the here and now". None of which invalidates a thing from 0079 or Char's Counterattack, and if anything, Banana's point is ultimately just reiterating Amuro's point that humans can change on their own given enough time.
After everything the federation does up to that point, I don't think a piece of paper that conveniently gives rights to newtypes before newtypes even existed as a concept would make them say sorry and move on. It's good that Hathaway essentially retcons it
You have to completely ignore G Gundam's entire back story to conclude that any point of UC can lead into FC. FC is only 64 years old at the time of the show and it literally started with individual earth nations establishing space colonies and basically world war 3. It directly contradicts both the UC backstory and timeline.
People who say this tend to be stupid enough to miss the part where the conspiracy was never about the text of the Inclusion Clause, but rather that a bunch of Federation elites conspired to kill off a PM they didn't agree with to begin with, then pinned the blame on disgruntled colonist-migrants. It's hammered in with zero subtlety that anyone who wants to make it about newtypes and a spacenoid destiny denied are out of their goddamned minds.
Saying you dislike Unicorn is annoying because every time you do, you get lumped in with the fricking morons who hate it for the dumbest shit (POWER LEVELS BAD THIS CONSPIRACY DOESN'T MAKE SENSE REEEEE DESTROY MODE LOOKS SO DUMB WHY IS THERE SPACE MAGIC IN THIS SEQUEL TO CCA).
I think Unicorn is bad to middling because of a variety of stuff dragging it down: it's an unfaithful adaptation, missing exposition on what was going on with the Unicorn absorbing various peoples' souls throughout the series, Banagher is so dull his most notable characteristic is being a SOREDEMO bot at the end, the weird leg designs on a lot of the new MS, episode 7 not taking the chance to show the Zeta, ZZ, and V2, and so on.
Anyone who complains that the original charter wouldn't have any meaning today outs themselves a fricking secondary who couldn't even be assed to watch the show he's complaining about. Banagher and Audrey's first reaction when they see what's in the box is disbelief that people have died for something so fricking worthless. The Federation was never seriously worried that Newtypes would use the original charter to claim greater political power. They were worried that giving the Zeon remnants even the slightest, tiniest, most insignicant triva-esque justification would reignite that Zeon patriotism and throw the world into another OYW. And they have every right to fear that, because Zeon is fricking insane. That's the entire reason why when Audrey reveals the charter at the end, she begs everyone listening to please not use it as motivation to do anything stupid.
All of this is blindingly obvious to anyone who WATCHED THE FRICKING SHOW, and yet to this day people talk about Laplace's Charter like Newtypes were gonna use it to become the presidents of the Earth Sphere or some shit. It's maddening and I can't even believe it's all just shitposting anymore because it's gone on for so long.
>Anyone who complains that the original charter wouldn't have any meaning today outs themselves a fricking secondary who couldn't even be assed to watch the show he's complaining about. Banagher and Audrey's first reaction when they see what's in the box is disbelief that people have died for something so fricking worthless. The Federation was never seriously worried that Newtypes would use the original charter to claim greater political power. They were worried that giving the Zeon remnants even the slightest, tiniest, most insignicant triva-esque justification would reignite that Zeon patriotism and throw the world into another OYW. And they have every right to fear that, because Zeon is fricking insane. That's the entire reason why when Audrey reveals the charter at the end, she begs everyone listening to please not use it as motivation to do anything stupid.
>All of this is blindingly obvious to anyone who WATCHED THE FRICKING SHOW, and yet to this day people talk about Laplace's Charter like Newtypes were gonna use it to become the presidents of the Earth Sphere or some shit. It's maddening and I can't even believe it's all just shitposting anymore because it's gone on for so long.
Finally, someone gets it. Audrey exposed it for it to lose its significance.
This is unrelated to the rest of the post, which I think you bring up good points in, but I just wanted to comment on the arguments you hate hearing.
>POWER LEVELS BAD
On one hand I agree that this is a bit of a stupid complaint, but on the other it's a bit ridiculous how the Unicorn is literally some God machine of UC despite us seeing hundreds of years into the future and seeing nothing like it. Even if you don't call G-Saviour canon, the Unicorn has like the same powers as Turn A which came thousands of years later. It's like the Mary Sue Gundam, essentially. And it's wasted on a really shitty mecha design.
>THIS CONSPIRACY DOESN'T MAKE SENSE REEEEE
I mean it's a bit convoluted but it makes sense, I just think it's a weak motivation and I don't particularly like how it has implications for the rest of UC. You explained it pretty well, but to be honest I never got that impression and I watched it twice. I guess I just lost interest since I dislike Banagher greatly.
>DESTROY MODE LOOKS SO DUMB WHY IS THERE
It has the same colours as a used tampon. It's ugly as frick and ruins an already middling design.
>SPACE MAGIC IN THIS SEQUEL TO CCA
Absolutely agree that this is a stupid as frick argument. People complaining about newtype bullshit are fricking idiots, and usually underaged morons thinking they are more mature than they are for watching "realistic" shows. Newtype bullshit is what makes UC interesting. I don't like how exaggerated the abilities are in comparison to what we've already seen, and I say that as someone who loves CCA's ending, but I don't loathe newtypes like some morons on this shitty board.
I think it's funny that people complain about Destroy Mode so much when FA Unicorn is right there and way more moronic on every level. Plan B/Perfectibility look almost as bad.
Unicorn was a gimmick design that accomplished its gimmick well enough to be turned into multiple toys. Disliking how it looks is fine, but it's about on the level as saying you don't like how VFs look like planes transformed into humanoids. Which again is fair enough, different strokes for different blokes and all that, but it's not some major sin. And I especially dislike how these days, the "cool" opinion I see parroted by countless NPCs is to think Unicorn Mode looks nice but Destroy Mode looks bad. Every time I ask why they think that, they can only give me some vague answer like "it ruins the design" or "it looks too Gundamy". As if it weren't the entire point that it transforms from a simpler shape into a regular Gundam.
I'll always give the time travel at the end credit for one thing. It was the author literally making the characters go BEYOND THE TIME. That's the kind of goofy fanfic bullshit I can't entirely hate.
Fukui said Unicorn can travel beyond time and reality. One mistake and the robot can collapse the dimension itself. Meanwhile Phenex was meant to be a safety button for Unicorm.
>And I especially dislike how these days, the "cool" opinion I see parroted by countless NPCs is to think Unicorn Mode looks nice but Destroy Mode looks bad.
I agree with this but not necessarily the general thrust of this argument. I think both look bad but Destroy mode is definitely worse. It has shit colours and is an exceedingly busy design. It's probably the worst lead Gundam in the whole franchise. And FA unicorn is just Unicorn with more shitty guns added on top, it's not even worth considering as a separate design but it's just as ugly. And yes, it's not some major sin, but it's not exactly going to endear me to a show I don't like and it's just another point of criticism. Good designs don't save bad shows but bad designs can bring down good shows, who wants to watch a shitty robot design doing anything? The redesign of Xi Gundam made me less interested in the Hathaway movie, which I ultimately did enjoy but I still dislike the redesign.
The FA Unicorn being just the unicorn with more guns is honestly a huge let down. The perfectability design being the same thing but even more guns is even more of a let down. I don't dislike the idea of a Gundam with glowy bits but I just don't like the destroy mode's look when everything is opened up, I find the proportions to be bad. Meanwhile the normal unactivated unicorn has better proportions imo. I feel like if you just stuck a more distinct monoeye in it or something and didn't have it be a massive gimmick, it could work as a design unto itself as some one-off weird newtype use machine based on the Nu that was just called the Unicorn.
Honestly the greatest sin off Unicorn to the UC timeline as a whole I think is the not destruction of the Unicorn/Banshee at the end and also it's attempts to have some political message within the setting. Delete the political message that was attempted to be propagated and have the Unicorn an Banshee be destroyed and it would work as an event that got covered up. Even the fricking Nu and Sazabi were destroyed thus justifying why stuff like Axis shock level newtype stuff isn't seen that much later on, Unicorn just disrespects this and keeps the Unicorn gundam around just in case they want to do skms crazy bullshit later on which is dumb
Amuro went BEYOND THE TIME and you never complained
Oh it's been obvious for a while some people here didn't watch Unicorn so much as experience it vicariously through shitty threads here. It's transcended shitposting to become the emobidment of a lie told often enough becoming someone else's truth.
What honestly baffles me is why Gundam attracts such a peculiar strain of idiocy, like it isn't even about the works in question any more but rather MY TEAM GOOD YOUR TEAM SUCK hooliganism.
Tribalism is as old as humanity, we just got a intristic need to dunk on a opposing team, and if there isn't one we'll just invent it.
are we just going to ignore the fact that releasing information that would lead to the sparking of an insane amount of Zeon nationalism for lack of a better term and then saying "hey guys but this doesn't matter" is moronic and demonstrates that either the writing is deliberately shitty or that the writers do not understand how humans work and don't understand how that totally wouldn't guarantee that the next 100 years of UC was just engulfed in more Zeon conflicts as they are totally justified and who gives a shit what some dumbass girl has to say about it, Zabi or not. This is just bad writing on a basic rational level
Mineva is the last remaining princess of Zeon. That means something if you're a die-hard Zeon patriot. The idea is that she is the only person capable of safely revealing the original charter because anyone who would be motivated to go continue the holy war would also automatically be a Mineva simp.
If you think that doesn't make any sense, sure. But it's the same reason Cecily was able to restart the Crossbone Vanguard, so don't give me any "the writer is moronic" shit unless you're ready to lampoon your precious Tomino. Space nobility is a big thing for UC villains.
i've come to accept that most people on /m/ and in the west in general have had their opinions about UC Gundam series totally informed by the dub broadcasts of 0083, 0080, and 08th MS Team on cartoon network.
they grew up on the 80s military otaku fad phase of Gundam and think it's what gundam really is instead of the "newtype space magic bullshit" when in reality those series are the outliers compared to most of the UC entries in the franchise
In myth Unicorns only let virgins ride them
Eh, I don't like Unicorn because it essentially outright says that the land Amuro and Lalah saw would never be achieved and humanity will burn itself out through endless bloodshed.
Unicorn as a series is pretty solid though. I'll concede that it's very preachy, but it does offer a decent, albeit unnecessary, closure on the Zeonic wars.
As for the actual mechs, Banshee and Phenex are ugly as frick, but the Unicorn is okay. The newtype psychic bullshit has always been bad, but it's not like UC is the only one guilty of this.
Did you miss Full Frontal's wild time ride? Even after the heat death of the universe there's still hope left.
>Even after the heat death of the universe there's still hope left.
Genuinely depressing, considering that even by the time of G-Deco, humanity hasn't learned its lesson. Hope happening a trillion trillion trillion years from now doesn't lessen the pain of everyone dying without ever seeing that hope.
Isn't the point that war doesn't last forever and people will always try to find peace? It's delusional to believe there will ever be a world completely free of conflict. [Spoiler]That would also mean they'd need to stop milking UC.[/spoiler]
Honestly, I kind of think it is necessary to give closure because even just sticking to Tomino shows you still have Zeon rising up twice more following the Principality's defeat; which implies that Zeon as an organization or philosophy has some kind of attraction to people. Which nothing Tomino made really explored. Nor did it really explain why it just stopped all of a shot after two further uprisings. No, Char's Counterattack doesn't do that, since nothing Char says or does is transmitted to anyone but Amuro and only a handful of mobile suit pilots help push Axis, while we see people aboard the Neo Zeon ships mourning Char's death and Axis being stopped. Not to mention all the people in the various Sides that had supported Neo Zeon according to the movie having seen or heard nothing to change their mind.
Katz and Sarah's "ghosts" argue over Scirocco; what exactly do you think that scene was meant to imply, if not that they are the actual remnant of those people?
Yes? Cause that itself ignores that NOT releasing it just means that it'll continue to be a hidden conspiracy that remnants will chase the truth of, and will exaggerate the importance of if and when they find it. Mineva has some actual power over Zeon's future, so her coming out and going "look, it's fricking nothing" will dissuade at least some people. Which is more than not exposing it, and letting an extremist do so a few decades down the line will do. Mineva's gamble might not work, and might actually cause more conflict, but continuing to hide it isn't guaranteed to work either and might itself just cause another war in future. Which is also why she didn't side with Full Frontal, and frankly, was right in doing so.
>Zeon as an organization or philosophy has some kind of attraction to people
MSG, Z and CCA make it pretty clear though: it's an independence movement fueled by the Federation's corruption and mistreatment of the colonies. In that sense, it's something that is never going away until the Federation is either reformed of dissolves, with Victory (and G-Saviour, if you want to count that) pointing towards the latter. Zeon takes the leading role because of economic, political and military influence, but it's not difficult to imagine they would be too exhausted to keep going after CCA, as the Jupiter Empire and Zanscare later rise up to fill that role.
> In that sense, it's something that is never going away until the Federation is either reformed of dissolves, with Victory (and G-Saviour, if you want to count that) pointing towards the latter.
It did go away though, unless you want to say that Cosmo Babylonia and Zanscare are Zeon ideologies in at least spirit. The attraction of Zeon as a name/organization and flag to rally under just disappeared after Char's Counterattack if you take out Unicorn; which always seemed a little strange to me, so I like that Unicorn at least attempts to explain why people flocked to Zeon and why people abandoned doing so.
>Phenex
>ugly as frick
Take that back
Who the frick unironically likes the Phenex? It's garish and ugly. The obly good Unicorn unit is the first one.
I do
We are enemies now.
it's alright needs more colour separation other than just gold and blue + grey inner frame poking out. I think it's the fact it relies so much on the gold/blue contrast so much to look flashy that makes it look way too complicated when in reality it's not that much more than the regular unicorn with two shield booster type things on it's shoulders.
Look at the hiyaku Shiki for a goat all gold design. It's upper body is mostly blue, it's shins are open to split up the gold, there are noticeable highlights of red wherever a thruster/cable is needed and then it has writing on it to break up the gold even more so it isn't just 90% gold plating
if you got rid of it's "tails" and gave it a less garish v-fin/horn like unicorn's it'd feel a lot more restrained compared to what banshee becomes
But the tails are the best part. Best part that aren't even part of the master grade. And the perfect grade is so fricking expensive. I am angery.
The feather v fin is cool
The tails are the worst part
Newhalf magic has always been deus ex machina starting with Zeta.
Shit Kamille pulled isn't any different from Unicron.
If you pretend otherwise you're either intellectually dishonest or plain dumb.
Alot of UCgays only bingewatch 8th MS Team and Hathaway. Unironically, Unicorn was the most return to roots-Gundam, bring back the concept of space ghos, Newtype's offensive psychic power and afterlife, something have been absent after Victory.
>08th didn't have newtype nonsense in it
Yes?
The whole personal conflict was caused because juliet's brother was obsessed with newshit magic.
Unless I'm mistaking it with other Gendum ova.
Shit it was so long ago.
I think you are, though I have no idea what one because I don't think there are any characters with a brother obsessed with Newtype magic in any UC animated productions, be they TV show, OVA or film. And no, I don't count Char as being obsessed, since it was only ever a superficial goal for him and he constantly uses and results in the deaths of some of the only Newtypes alive without any real introspection or change because of it.
Aina's brother was obsessed with creating a weapon to crack Jaburo he called the Apsalus. Which he had to build out of spare parts in the end because he had lost any support in Zeon for some reason. Which is honestly kind of silly, since he created the most powerful mobile unit bound gun in the entirety of UC Gundam from scraps. There's no other mobile unit use gun in any of UC even remotely as powerful. Not even by the time of Victory Gundam, nearly 100 years later. It cored a mountain using 3 Dom reactors, making it ridiculously efficient on top of overwhelming powerful.
The regular Unicorn is a fine design but I can't stand the Banshee. And I don't even want to acknowledge the third one
As for the series itself, it's very flawed but it's fine overall. Even with magic that dwarfs anything UC has done before or since and the weird conspiracy I still think Unicorn's biggest fault is that none of the characters are remotely interesting or likeable save one. It also fixates on the Gundams (and the Zeong) being important a bit too much. I prefer UC mobile suits to just be machines at the end of the day. The Unicorn is supposed to be a modern Grandpa, it invalidates contemporary weapons, but I always got the feeling the show was trying to push a feeling of reverance that was never there for other UC entry Gundams
I don't think Unicorn was that over-the-top for UC landscape. Because afterall, CCA, Zeta and ZZ went all out with Newtype magic, meanwhile Unicorn chickened out with every power display it did. This show makes you feel like, it could have been much crazier, but it hold itself back, from something supposed to be extremely crazy to a toned down version of Zeta and ZZ.
You're seriously mentally ill if you think Godcorn turning back time on an entire fleet of jegans is "held back", or the Neo Zeong magically exploding weapons at will and then decaying like it's made of organic matter at the end because Full Frontal gave up. Even the colony laser block, which is the least bullshit power in unicorn, is orders of magnitude more bullshit than anything in Z or ZZ. And NT doubles down on it by making the Phenex FTL and absorbing a magic nuclear reaction that would have destroyed an entire side
> NT doubles down on it by making the Phenex FTL and absorbing a magic nuclear reaction that would have destroyed an entire side
The Phenex is described as going "nearly" the speed of light; not faster than light, and the nuclear reaction itself wouldn't have destroyed the entirety of Side 6 going by dialogue; it'd just have destroyed the closest colonies, and the debris from them would have destroyed more colonies until the entire Side was destroyed by radiating damage from the closest colonies. A lot of which would then rain down on the Earth.
>The Phenex is described as going "nearly" the speed of light
Banagher states they couldn't catch up even going the speed of light when the Phenex flies off at the end.
>and the debris from them would have destroyed more colonies until the entire Side was destroyed by radiating damage from the closest colonies
The simulation clearly shows the blast engulfing side 6 and 1.
> Banagher states they couldn't catch up even going the speed of light when the Phenex flies off at the end.
Banagher is speaking after watching it move with his naked eye and only estimating probability; even then his statement doesn't contradict the idea it's not going FTL, since even moving at the speed of light you won't catch something else that is moving at that same speed. Which, together with the fact he can actually SEE the light of it's passage means it's probably not going faster than light. Hence why most things that depict FTL do so by having the thing going faster than light no longer move in normal space or be visible to people anymore.
When someone aboard the main ship measures the Phenex earlier in the film they state it's "nearly" the speed of light, not at or faster than it.
> The simulation clearly shows the blast engulfing side 6 and 1.
And the text in your own screen cap clearly says "nearby colonies" not "nearby Sides". We see 10 to 15 colonies in the vicinity of the explosion being described in the simulation, but the simulated explosions color is gradually losing intensity even on the zoomed in shot prior to your screencap; meaning the blast might radiate as far as Side 1, but it's not going to be strong enough to destroy anything at that distance going off what the characters say.
>Banagher is speaking after watching it move with his naked eye and only estimating probability
You don't get to disagree with character statements. Not how this works, ever. If a show wants you to disagree it will make that clear to the viewer. This isn't something you get a say in.
>together with the fact he can actually SEE the light of it's passage means
Not how light works either.
>And the text in your own screen cap clearly says "nearby colonies" not "nearby Sides". We see 10 to 15 colonies in the vicinity of the explosion being described in the simulation, but the simulated explosions color is gradually losing intensity even on the zoomed in shot prior to your screencap; meaning the blast might radiate as far as Side 1, but it's not going to be strong enough to destroy anything at that distance going off what the characters say.
It's 19 all of which are indicated as being engulfed in the blast. But the character saying "nearby colonies will be engulfed" doesn't contradict the rest of the simulation which shows two sides being engulfed in the blast radius.
>but it's not going to be strong enough to destroy anything at that distance going off what the characters say.
No, this is just head canon and contradicts the simulation that we're shown, which clearly shows both Side 6 and 1 within the blast radius. The narration doesn't contradict that part at all. What you're saying is that the part of the show is wrong, which you don't have any right to say. The character also says that debris from 3 colonies will rain down on the earth, that doesn't contradict the simulation very clearly showing 19 being destroyed. It means the character narrated only a specific part of the simulation. You're trying to claim the show's information is wrong, which again, you have zero right to make this claim.
> You don't get to disagree with character statements. Not how this works, ever. If a show wants you to disagree it will make that clear to the viewer. This isn't something you get a say in.
Then it's a good thing I'm not doing that, since we also have a character with a computer measuring the Phenex's passage earlier in the film note that it's nearly at the speed of light; not at it or over it. Actually, by that measure, you're the one disagree with what the character is saying by stating that Banagher says it's moving faster than light when all he says is that Jona wouldn't catch it even moving at the speed of light. Which is not the same thing.
> Not how light works either.
No-one knows how light works for objects moving faster than light, but classical Einsteinian doctrine would be that to be moving at lightspeed you'd need to convert all your mass to energy (never mind faster than it) and even using analogues like objects travelling faster than sound or objects moving faster than light in a specific medium would suggest you'd still see them but only after they've already passed you; with your visual coming later the faster they're moving. We see the Phenex as it leaves, and even when we cut back to Banagher and Jona after the Mineva scene, we see it seconds later. So if it was travelling faster than light then it wasn't much faster than it.
>two different scenes is the same feat
I'm not even sure what you're trying to "discuss" here. By your own logic I can easily dismiss it by saying they don't have the instruments on a naval warship to accurately measure something moving at ~light speed speeds because nothing else in their universe does. Sentinel gives ballpark numbers for beams and it's below 10% the speed of light.
>We see the Phenex as it leaves
You have no way of confirming this because you'd still see the projected light from it. And after the cutaway the Phenex very clearly came back to Jonah without the Neo Zeong in tow. It's two completely different continuities. You're not even accurately describing what happened. It even flies back into Jonah's line of vision, as depicted when it flies across his visor.
I don't even see why you bothered commenting on my post when you're even outright lying about what happened in the show.
>We are shown the blast becoming less intense via the color gradually cooling
Okay?
>Which there's no reason to do if the explosion would destroy everything in it's path
You're just inserting more headcanon. The simulation very clearly shows the lowest intensity extremities of the expanding blast are more than enough to destroy a colony completely. It's even consistently color coded for visual convenience.
> By your own logic I can easily dismiss it by saying they don't have the instruments on a naval warship to accurately measure something moving at ~light speed speeds because nothing else in their universe does.
They do have the instruments to measure something moving slower though; which is their assessment.
> You have no way of confirming this because you'd still see the projected light from it.
We do see light projected from the Phenex as it shoots upwards.
> And after the cutaway the Phenex very clearly came back to Jonah without the Neo Zeong in tow.
Why would the Neo Zeong II be in tow when it had just exploded?
> The simulation very clearly shows the lowest intensity extremities of the expanding blast are more than enough to destroy a colony completely.
No, it doesn't. Several of the colonies that explode only explode once 3 or 4 color bands of the simulation have passed over them, and in the case of one of the furthest out colonies it appears to be destroyed because of remnants from other colonies hitting it and not because of the explosion itself.
>shockwave
>space
You don't really get what i meant. No matter the stuff like Unicorn became a timelord or Neo Zeong being the stronkest MS evar! The characters and the story chickened out with its powerlevel promise. Yeah Unicorn units had to be dismantled and achieving Newtype godhood is bad!
Kamile and Judau are more comfortable with their powers. The story narrative didn't antagonize their superpowers.
>Kamile and Judau are more comfortable with their powers.
Kamille turned into a vegetable because he opened up his mind too much and absorbed malice/evil in order to defeat Scirocco. Tomino said so in some interview for one of the Zeta Gundam Historica magazines. Judau also only uses his powers a bit and then runs away to Jupiter to basically isolate himself. Banagher is the most comfortable with his powers. He gave up godhood but he's still a powerful newtype and flies around the planet shouting soredemo. Even without turning into the crystal unicorn he was still blocking most of the colony laser between the Unicorn and its shields. That's more impressive than anything Judau or Kamille ever did and he doesn't end up with mentally illness or become a recluse.
Kamille got better throughout ZZ, and by roughly the 2/3rds point is having psychic conversations with people hundreds of miles away, while guiding them through fights based on precognition. Judau left for Jupiter because he was sick of the Federation's hypocrisy; there's nothing indicating he ever stopped using his powers, or even became less empathic overall.
Banagher already lost his Unicorn Gundam, or you can say, it is traveling somewhere else in limbo and attatching to him spiritually. The narrative of Unicorn series is quite chickened out, unlike Zeta and ZZ where Newtypes can achieve something great permanently without the narrative tells you "cool power is bad!". One of the reason why i still consider Unicorn to be too grounded compares to the other 2.
>Banagher already lost his Unicorn Gundam, or you can say, it is traveling somewhere else in limbo and attatching to him spiritually
He didn't lose it. We saw twice that it wasn't actually dismantled and is being kept in storage under mineva's control on Magallanica. So he has both his newtype powers and the Unicorn, and he didn't have to give anything up.
>unlike Zeta and ZZ where Newtypes can achieve something great permanently without the narrative tells you "cool power is bad!"
You didn't watch Zeta or ZZ did you? Kamille developed a mental illness from using his powers. And the only thing he achieved is personally killing Scirocco. The colony laser wiped out the Titans fleet, so he basically crippled himself for personal revenge.
>ZZ
Judau didn't do anything other than kill a virtually powerless Haman who lost most of her forces already and then isolated himself as a result. The civil war already devastated Neo Zeon and took it out of commission.
Compare that to Banagher who magically wins an ideological battle against Char's spirit and makes him kill himself and destroy his wish granting death machine made with technology from beyond the mortal dimension, and then blocks a colony laser, becomes a perfect life form, turns back time on an enemy fleet by himself, and comes back from it and gets to frick Mineva, cucking Riddhe. He had a perfect victory with no drawbacks or consequences and he got what he wants, to get the girl he's been chasing since the beginning of the show. Unicorn's ending is basically a bond film if the main villain kills himself because Bond is too amazing. Meanwhile Kamille loses Four, most of his friends, and becomes an invalid, and has to experience the full brunt of the misery of a colony drop because he's stuck in a hypersensitive state.
>He had a perfect victory with no drawbacks or consequences and he got what he wants, to get the girl he's been chasing since the beginning of the show.
Did you even actually watch Unicorn? He lost his father, Loni and Marida, as well as witnessing a bunch of deaths he didn't want to happen. Hooking up with Mineva was far from his only goal.
>father
Completely unrelated to his powers and doesn't even occur when he's a newtype or a pilot. If you're going to bring that up then also bring up Kamille's parents both dying, finding the dead colony that got gassed, having to kill any number of his enemies whom he didn't want to, might as well bring up being beat up for by Wong too. I mentioned Kamille's losses that are specifically significant as a newtype because he's sensitive to them and fuel his rage induced final battle with Scirocco.
>Loni
Whom he had zero connection to whatsoever. He didn't lose anyone there. You could maybe make this case for the novelization, where they have a newtype flash of forming a family together, but in the animated continuity they're essentially strangers who have to travel together for a bit and Loni's character is totally rewritten to be inconsequential.
>Marida
She's the only person out of the list he even remotely knows and they still had little interaction. Kamille chases after Four since the moment they meet and it's clear they're in love and her death comes as a direct consequence of their connection because she quite literally takes a beam saber for him. Marida doesn't even die for Banagher, if anything she dies to break the spell over Riddhe because her death clears his mind. You might as well add Daguza to that list too since Banagher got mad over the death of a guy with whom he had an antagonistic relationship almost the entire time.
>well as witnessing a bunch of deaths he didn't want to happen
You're not even making a point here. You're equating the death of strangers to close friends and comrades. The best part is Banagher didn't even know who his dad was until Cardeas just mentions it randomly before dying. By the way, Marida and the other sleeves started the fight and got his classmates killed. Are you going to mention that too even though Banagher forgets about them immediately?
Kamille snaps because he's the strongest Newtype and his power, particularly channeling the dead, is too much for his body to physically take.
https://desuarchive.org/m/thread/19689730/#19690093
That's from 機動戦士ガンダム ニュータイプ伝説ぴあ a book published by a leisure lifestyle magazine publisher. Fukui said Banagher and Jonah achieved the perfect newtype form. Kamille isn't the strongest by default seeing as he never achieved that. That's just clinging to old statements by Tomino which Sunrise clearly doesn't acknowledge. Feat wise it's plain to see Kamille isn't the strongest.
Kamille doesn't require Psycoframe or even the Bio Sensor to achieve huge Newtype feats, he does them on his own. Now imagine if he had contact with a Unicorn.
He requires the Zeta Gundam to do so, this isn't even something that needs clarification. Emma outright tells him as she's dying in his arms that the Zeta Gundam has the ability to turn other peoples' souls and will into power. And the key part of this statement is that it's not even Kamille's own power, the power is actually coming from the dead people watching over him in a similar sense to the Axis Shock being a result of concentrated human will. Statements from the show throw a wet towel all over Kamille's newtype feats, because it's not his own ability, it's the Zeta's and it's not his own power, it's the power of other people surrounding him. Banagher, on the other hand, gets a pep talk from Marida's ghost and becomes a god.
Anon, did you forget ZZ?
Telepathy and sensing danger is such a basic newtype ability that even the White Base kids were accurately guiding Amuro through the ruins of A Boa Qu, avoiding danger, from hundreds if not thousands of kilometers away. By that metric would you consider Ezelcant from AGE the strongest newtype? He communicated with Zeheart from Mars.
I actually forgot another one of Fukui's characters. Rita. Not only did she see the colony drop coming like days away so everyone could get to safety. At the ending of NT it's revealed she had seen so far into the future that she plotted everything, as a child, so that she could create the scenario in which she, Jonah, and Michelle could stop the Neo Zeong II. Is Kamille still the strongest newtype? By what metric?
Rita is probably the strongest newtype, considering that she can pilot a mobile suit despite being, y’know, dead.
She's not piloting the Phenex though, the Phenex entity is a distinctly separate being.
In fact, a few posts down in your archive.
>>>then Fukui has written that nobody else in the Universal Century except Kamille Bidan has come closer to being a true newtype
https://ascii.jp/elem/000/001/849/1849634/3/
>> In "UC", the Unicorn Gundam's fuselage is fused with the soul of Banagher, a human being who is close to a true Newtype, and fully awakens. As a result, the fuselage was able to evolve into its ultimate ideal form, becoming so all-powerful that it could tear apart any weapon. But Banagher didn't like it and came back to the human world with Mineva, that's the general story.
>Banagher fusing with the Unicorn doesn't just awaken as a true newtype, he becomes the ideal being. Capable of rending space and time if he didn't return to being human. He literally says that, that it could collapse the universe.
Can Getter Emperor and Mazinger Zero even defeat Unicorn God Mode?
Feats vs. feats yes.
Speculative upper limits vs. speculative upper limits... they still win.
You pretty much have to pit only their existing feats vs. speculative god mode for Unicorn to win.
Both on speculative never destroys the entire dimensions.
Even Getter Emperor shown on Getter Robo Saga or any other works of Ken Ishikawa looks like universe tier when combining but never actually destroyed any universe
Right. And Unicorn never applied it's abilities in a way that's out of turn for what those two have dealt with.
Only Aquarion Logos Genesis the only omnipotent mecha that can defeat anyone.
> But the character saying "nearby colonies will be engulfed" doesn't contradict the rest of the simulation which shows two sides being engulfed in the blast radius.
On the other hand, it does contradict the blast wave being noticeably less intense as it spreads outward and the wording of "nearby colonies" when referring to entire Sides would be just weird. Technically not actually a contradiction, but definitely an odd choice that minimizes the danger rather than communicating the actual intent.
> No, this is just head canon and contradicts the simulation that we're shown
No, it doesn't. We are shown the blast becoming less intense via the color gradually cooling. Which there's no reason to do if the explosion would destroy everything in it's path. Never mind that the simulation shows the explosion happening the midst of Side 6, but even the extremities of the explosion only travel about half way into the orbital radius of Side 1, and it's the orbital radius of the debris cloud the explosion would create moving through Side 1 that appears to be the larger problem even in the simulation.
Us snobs have already moved on to the Regild Century, the elite top 1%.
Gundamgays are just moronic
Everyone in this thread keeps cutting the Zeta Gundam's bio sensor as evidence of the fact that UC was always cringe DBZ power level newtype magic bullshit and I've seen it so many times now I can't decide whether y'all are stupid or willfully ignorant of how it works. The bio sensor of the Zeta Gundam does not make newtype ghosts, it simply stores the emotions of the pilots the Zeta has faced and when released, give off the appearance of those people. They didn't come back from the dead to help Kamille scare the crap out of Sirocco, it's just manifestations of these people's emotions that look like them. The real newtype magic bullshit event was Amuro stopping the fall of axis which is described as a miracle or "shock" and is an event that has alot of gravity(no pun intended) attributed to it. Unicorn and the newtype bullshit that happens is a total misstep in the series for devolving it down to ridiculous super power marvel tier schlock. The newtype bullshit in UC is crazy, but there has always been a natural progression to it that made sense and it never got way to out of hand, Unicorn having the auras of newtypes clash is pure DBZ tier garbage lmao. Unicorn defenders just like defending trash
Gaining power-ups via emotions alone is closer to DBZ than psychic ghosts powering a machine. Not that your headcanon about the Biosensor is right anyways.
UC ended after CCA for me
>all this crying about newtype nonsense
I do wonder why you people even watch giant robot shows if you get bothered by pilot autism affecting the physical realm.
This. I really don't think people understand how boring it would be if the pilot had nothing special about them. It's something I came to appreciate when watching non-Gundam shit like VOTOMs and Dougram, where VOTOMs to me is far more compelling than Dougram. Chirico is way more interesting as a character because of his special abilities, while Crinn and his crew are really the least interesting thing in the whole show.
It's probably just teenagers who think they're super mature and cool because they want to watch grunts get ripped to shreds because that's so gritty and edgy.
Aesthetic also helps. Chirico actually designed to look like an adult and you can take him seriously with that, despite how he is not really old (about 18 to 20s ).
Victory, F91, Crossbone, and Hathaway are all way more interesting than Unicorn from a Gundam design perspective anyway imo. Way more interesting than just moar psychoframes
Banagher didn't get slapped enough so his character stays really boring and naively idealistic.
I like newtype magic a lot, until it gets over explained and stops being thought provoking.
All I've learned is that you Fukui apologists are fricking plotgays who will never engage in real art criticism.
Lickable pussies may be "real art crticism," but so is taking a shit in an art gallery and declaring it part of the collection.
> Anons make endless complaints about narrative problems in Unicorn
> People explain them
> "Fricking plotgays!, just apologizing with narrative excuses and no real defense of it as art"
Narrative is art, by the way. Including as part of any audiovisual medium.
I’m a snob about Tomino, not UC
Tomino’s work is the only good part of Gundam (maybe I will be proven wrong with Hathaway, idk)
Honestly, I don't accept the canonicity of Unicorn solely because it was never written to BE part of official Gundan canon. If Blue Destiny or Gaia Gear could get anime, but I wouldn't suddenly consider them part of official canon.
Sunrise hired Fukui to write a novel with the specific intention of animating it according to Fukui in interviews. As noted in the Unicorn post animation pastebin: https://pastebin.com/eT7jMp7N
> UC becoming an anime was 100% confirmed from before he even started writing it
>Fukui has no idea how the moonlight butterfly works, says Tomino probably doesn't either
>Also he thinks CCA's psychoframe's T stands for Tomino
>Fukui: "So the psychoframe basically works on the same principles as Ideon, right?"
>Tomino: (Nods)
Ideonite, Aura Power, Psychoframe, MLB, Overskill, etc.....
How does he get away with it?
Love this man.
you didn't liked CCA?
No, I'm a snob about 0079, Zeta and ZZ
Rewatching 0079 now and moments like Amuro's Dad going mental or the sheer brutality of the initial Zeon attack (while not dramatically playing it up, using relatively little music and not having the characters sperg out too hard over it) are moments that remain untouched and unreached compared to even the best the rest of Gundam has to offer
Origin and Unicorn are a joke
Yeah, they can be.
why did you bump this from the bottom of page 10?
I mean this is HOW you be a snob about the Universal Century.
Yes.
Newtype bullshit is a core part of UC.