>cap is revealed to be hydra
>its super obvious that its shenanigans
>normies break in half over it
>read the run
>its actually good as frick
Is there anything worse than people who complain without reading the book?
>cap is revealed to be hydra
>its super obvious that its shenanigans
>normies break in half over it
>read the run
>its actually good as frick
Is there anything worse than people who complain without reading the book?
homosexuals who pretend shit is gold.
The run is good but Secret Empire was such a mess that it ruined everything. But I blame Spencer as much as I blame editorial. I remember marketing for the event also being moronic. The Alonso era was the worst.
Blame Marvel for wanting to make it an event. I'm sure this wasn't meant to be an event.
"I imagined it up"
Who the frick talks like that? Who writes someone talking like that?
>Who the frick talks like that?
Red Skull's an ESL
It works fine if you think of Red Skull speaking in a very dramatic tone. There's nothing with the line.
He means "I wished my Hydra fairytale into reality with a sapient cosmic cube", it doesn't sound as awkward in proper context
>uhm Hydra is totally NOT Nazi, they just talk, act and generally look like them
One of my favourite recurring jokes from Secretly Hydra
Miss that illuminating gay every day
Spencer's intent was for good Steve to be gone forever and for Falcon to be the new permanent Captain America. Yeah people aren't going to like when a character they've liked for years is unceremoniously erased from existence and only brought back because of the backlash.
It got so bad that Disney stepped in and publicly reassured people that Steve wasn't going anywhere or staying evil.
Imagine believing this
Look at the art in Secret Empire. It's obvious there were additions and rewrites.
That WAS the plan. More specifically Alonzo's plan. There was a lot of dialog pushing Sam as Cap, the left field re-writes and new pages. The big tell was that Coates was supposed to write the new Cap ongoing immediately after the series but then he got delayed 6 months 'to understand Steve Rogers' and Waid did a short stint, because the original plan was that Coates was supposed to write Falcap instead.
You’re right - Coates being set-up as the next writer is the give-away
What in the run suggests that?
Reminder that Hydra cap died to a random evil mutant and his less evil Illuminati knockoffs were never referenced again.
>>read the run
>>its actually good as frick
No it ins't at all, what the frick?
The Steve Rogers run was fantastic, the Falcap run was shit.
Why didn't Skrull just imagined him to be loyal to him?
>skull thinks he IS Hydra
>you Will be loyal to Hydra!
>CubeSteve Was loyal to the organisation Hydra
>had to deal with people betraying him and taking over Hydra several times
>don't make Captain specifically loyal to him
He's supposed to be a tactical genius.
He made him loyal to Hydra in the same way he's loyal to America, but he forgot that he'll fight against America's leadership if he thinks they're going against America and would do the same with Hydra.
MCUgays.
Did they ever explain why none of the hundreds of telepaths could tell Steve was amogus sus all those years?
Pretty much everyone who actually reads comics pegged it as cosmic cube shenanigans, which caused Spencer to loudly proclaim that it wasn't, which caused normies to flip their shit because the writer of Captain America just said that Steve - one of the most popular MCU characters - is actually a Nazi and has been the whole time. And then it turns out that it was cosmic cube shenanigans all along.
Remember the new inhuman that was able to cough up a fake cosmic cube?
Hey now, he only vomited up the missing piece of an existing Cosmic Cube!
To be fair, for about 10 years Hydra was explicitly said to have moved away from its Nazi roots, to the point where even Von Strucker disavowed Nazism as a limiting and counterproductive ideology for world domination.
>Hey now, he only vomited up the missing piece of an existing Cosmic Cube!
His power is to vomit stuff he can visualize. So he basically coughed up a copy of part of the cube. Which is dumber.
Why didn't he just keep vomiting up pieces until they had two cosmic cubes?
>His power is to vomit stuff he can visualize
Who let Ennis write the book?
>Hydra was explicitly said to have moved away from its Nazi roots
In both the comics and later in the MCU, Hydra is portrayed as something that existed long before the Nazis were ever a thing.
It's honestly funny how they had all manner of outs to go with that were far less ridiculous. Brainwashing, reprogrammed Life Model Decoy, alternate dimension counterpart, shapeshifter, any goddamn thing. Hell, there were already two evil evil fake "Steve Rogers" before, with that '50s Captain America who went off his rocker William Burnside and that clone of Red Skull who outright used Steve Roger's body to fool people. But going with "it was cosmic cube shenanigans" really does show how hard they messed up their marketing, since even casual MCU fans know that the cosmic cube is one of the strongest retcon buttons you can use to fix PR frickups of this scale.
This costume was ugly as shit, can't believe they pushed it out the door.
I was thinking the same thing!
>change reality so Captain will kick his ass while "actually being on his side"
>nothing changed
>hydra is still the same joke
Also hilarious how even though Captain Hydra was supposed to be the best strategist in the world and without morals to hold him back he was still casually defeated after leaving jail
Even in Secret Empire he was backstabbed and lost to his good copy when he was in cosmic cube powered armor. All that keikaku mastery just disappeared when the event started.
Reminder that the original Steve Rogers is gone. The current one was just a copy created by the cosmic cube girl based solely on her memory of what the original was like.
I mean, if we're REALLY going to play that game, the original Steve Rogers (as well as the Avengers) all died during Onslaught, and the one that came out after that was a copy made by Franklin Richards.
Wasn't the story that Franklin kept them alive when everyone thought they'd died, and he created the Heroes Reborn universe to keep them safe in?
No, he remade them, which is why Tony is an adult again.
I recommend saying that to Brevoort rather than here, you'd get a better reaction
I think you can go even further than that
>Current Steve Rogers is just a copy created by the Cosmic Cube
>Hydra Cap, before he became Hydra is actually an alteration of an imperfect recreation of 616 after Secret Wars
>Pre-incursion Cap is the Cap who "came back to life" in Brubaker's run but isn't the real Cap, which is why his memories of his past are different in Remender's run
>The Captain America who first appeared in Reiber/Cassaday Marvel Knights Captain America all the way to Brubaker's Death of Captain America is also a different Captain America because Captain America died in Captain America vol 3 #50 and it's never explained how he came back to life
>The Captain America who died in Vol 3 #50 was the one who was recreated by Franklin Richards during the Heroes Reborn/Heroes Return era; the prior Captain America died during Onslaught
And I can go even further than that
Should note that in "The History of the Marvel Universe" vanity project Mark Waid wrote, he EXPLICITLY rewrote the premise of Secret Empire by explicitly stating that Hydra Cap was a construct and that the real Cap was imprisoned inside Kubik's mind.
As for Captain America #50, didn't the Captain America Corps mini explain how Steve survived? IE he was grabbed by time travelers along with other Cap variants/stand-ins IE USAgent and Bucky, so he could help fight Superia and her squad of Americop cosplaying boytoys?
Part of the problem, and why even comic book fans complained at the time, not just MCU watchers or something, was that we had been returning from old man Rogers and finally getting a promised return to standard Captain America. Only it turns out to be a fake out. I think there'd be much less outrage if we had gone from a standard Captain America run to that, rather than it being a fake out return.
I think it was a combination. The comic fans, who were reading comics, were upset because of what you said. The MCU fans were upset because they heard the news and didn't read the comics. Then it was also amplified because of unintentionally poor timing, doing this story during the 2016 Presidential election when things were heated. The Trump crowd hated it because Spencer used Trump's words for Red Skull or something. The SJW crowd hated it because it was making Captain America a Nazi. Then when Secret Empire was published, the people who liked the HydraCap stuff, were pissed off with the event.
Everyone was pissed off across the board. I don't think I'd ever seen anything like it.
>I've seen the light Red Skull...that you're a detriment to Hydra
>*commits Undertaker reference*
Gotta love with even plot armor and literal mind control/reality warping red skull still can't win. It's great
The thing about hydra cap is he is still cap/Steve, he haf all the good quality, characters of Steve , but in a twisted way.
That's why the only one who could defeat him is himself, the captain America