National Comics killed his publisher in 1953 after almost a decade of lawsuits trying to achieve that
DC (which was still officially National at the time) rented Fawcett's Captain Marvel starting in 1972, purely out of an ill-thought-out spiteful attempt to hurt Marvel Comics, who had by then been using their own Captain Marvel for five years and the name Marvel Comics - after Marvel Mystery Comics, which debuted a couple of months prior to Fawcett's Captain Marvel - for ten years
not content with turning the son of Fawcett into an orphan, DC made him a rent boy as well, but immediately found that Marvel owned the trademark and they (DC) had spent a lot of money on a thing they didn't want
they tried making the best of it and even bought the character outright in 1977 (along with the rest of Fawcett's back catalog), by which time Marvel Comics had graciously allowed DC to reprint old Fawcett strips and use the character both under another name (as Shazam, originally, in the tv show that Warner Bros - DC's owners even then - made so that the rights wouldn't be a total waste) and under the name Captain Marvel, as long as this wasn't used in marketing material or on covers
so in longer answer to OP's question, because he was out of print for 20 years when Superman and Batman weren't, and because unlike Spider-Man he wasn't being printed by a popular comic book publisher when he was resurrected by DC - they were selling half what Marvel sold at the time, and most of it was Superman/Batman comics
his tv show (and later the Isis show) and his cartoon were reasonably popular for a time but quickly forgotten as special effects and animation quality drastically improved over the decade following, and lacked the humor of, say, the 1966 Batman show or the 90s Lois & Clark show that drew audiences in
Because he wasn't a "pushed" character, at least, not after the height of his popularity after WWII. He saw a brief revival in the 70s after DC bought him and the TV show came out, but they never made an effort to continuously keep him in the spotlight.
This anon speaks the truth. This shit [...]
is revisionism.
OG sales were already declining hard post-WW2 and you can actually see this by reading the original comics yourself and seeing them try to change up the formula and story types to chase genres that were becoming more popular. Fawcett was perfectly happy to fight in court so long as Captain Marvel remained profitable: the original lawsuit didn't go to trial in 1948 and Fawcett originally won, with DC (National) only winning an appeal in 1951 with that appeal being provisionally overturned in 1952 before being sent back for a final ruling. It was during that final hearing that Fawcett decided that the sales weren't enough anymore and settled out of court in 1953.
Now what you can argue is that the lawsuit prevented Fawcett from taking advantage of the CCA being adopted in 1954 which surely would've caused Captain Marvel's popularity to rebound, but given the declining sales there's no guarantee Fawcett wouldn't have pulled the plug in '53 anyway.
So yes DC were frivolous c**ts for suing them, but that's not why Fawcett Marvel died, declining sales were.
>Bad design and crappy backstory.
Outsold Superman.
This anon speaks the truth. This shit [...]
is revisionism.
Billy sold more copies for a short time; if DC cared as much about Clark being eclipsed as some of you Billy die-hards relentlessly b***h about, they would kill-off all their Bruce solo titles - instead ....
Fawcett was stupid enough to shoot itself in the foot, including not properly attending to their intellectual property which is why Billy will never be Captain Marvel ever again but apparently you children can't get past that and obviously never will.
>if DC cared
DC couldn't stop manga. What makes you think they are capable of permanently killing a character. They couldn't kill Superman to begin with.
We are not the b***hes, DC is
Bad design and crappy backstory.
The kid turned full grown superhero thing is niche. Most people like the idea of an adult that wears a costume. He just doesn't come across as tough or cool. Spiderman's design isn't tough, but its cool. You gotta have at least one.
Captain Marvel has just never had a lot going for him mass appeal-wise. That isn't to say he's a bad title, rather there simply isn't enough gas in the tank.
Captain Marvel appealed to a very specific generation of kids who came out of the Depression and were dealing with the realities of WW2, full of broken homes and absent father figures, wanting a power fantasy they could escape in to. His popularity was already waning after the war to the point where the lawsuit was merely a nail in the coffin. This is why revival attempts have always fallen flat, because without that kid appeal he's just "what if Superman but kid."
How about you just stick to Current Thing normie geek stuff? It's clearly your comfort zone and you flounder when you step outside it.
4 months ago
Anonymous
It's more relatable.
4 months ago
Anonymous
>Why isn't this book about meeeee?
Yeah, you're a normie all right.
4 months ago
Anonymous
It's better to have a wider market then no market at all.
4 months ago
Anonymous
Narrow, short-term thinking. Have you considered a career in politics?
4 months ago
Anonymous
Captain Marvel purists are a non-existent market audience that pissing them off with deviations from the original concept is literally a net positive
4 months ago
Anonymous
>hates comics >hates fans
I had no idea Tom Brevoort posted here
4 months ago
Anonymous
You're the worse type of fan though, your comics from the 1940s boring to talk about.
4 months ago
Anonymous
Take your Ritalin.
4 months ago
Anonymous
It's like the exact opposite in that there's nothing of substance to them. >here's captain marvel with some penguins isn't that so wacky and funny?!?!?
4 months ago
Anonymous
>I don't like it therefore it bad
Really showing off your intelligence, here
4 months ago
Anonymous
>went into a lighthearted cape comic expecting "substance"
Perhaps the problem isn't the comic?
4 months ago
Anonymous
The Shazamily is lighthearted and substantial.
4 months ago
Anonymous
>Geoff Johns and Mark Waid >substance
4 months ago
Anonymous
Curse of Shazam was objectively the best outing the character ever had.
4 months ago
Anonymous
You are objectively moronic.
4 months ago
Anonymous
You can whine but that's exactly the kind of kid character that resonates more to other kids.
>Johns didn't do shit.
This is exactly what I'm talking about, the blind hategay autism. I don't give a shit about the "not muh" whining, I'm talking about the FACT that without Johns DC would have let Billy fade away into obscurity
>I don't give a shit about the "not muh"
Yes, we've already established you're pig ignorant about Captain Marvel and have no clue about anything unless it's Current Thing.
4 months ago
Anonymous
Anon, your ability to follow a conversation topic and communication skills are severely lacking. If you weren't so focused on shitposting and insulting people, you'd see what I'm talking about
4 months ago
Anonymous
>you'd see what I'm talking about
It's possible to see what you're talking about and disagree with it. I'm doing both, in case that was unclear.
4 months ago
Anonymous
We were talking about the character remaining relevant, which you steered the conversation into creative decisions which is a completely different topic entirely.
4 months ago
Anonymous
>you steered the conversation into creative decisions
Creative decisions directly feed into making a character "relevant". But "relevancy" is a nebulous chimera that can be made to mean whatever the person using the word wants it to mean. And if it means (as it appears to mean in this instance) creating essentially new personalities and making them walk around in Marvel Family skinsuits in stories that are tonally nothing like a Captain Marvel story, then sure, Johns has made Captain Marvel (or at least his outward form) "relevant".
4 months ago
Anonymous
You can twist this however you want. The fact of the matter is that you throwing a tantrum about the Shazamily has nothing to do with what we were talking about. Geoff Johns kept Billy out of obscurity by using him in JSA, DC didn't want anything to do with him.
4 months ago
Anonymous
>Creative decisions directly feed into making a character "relevant".
4 months ago
Anonymous
I'm not saying the don't. You make not like what was done, but it doesn't change what I said. Again, two different topics you're throwing a fit over for some reason
4 months ago
Anonymous
Like I said, "relevancy" is a chimera. Chasing it is meaningless. You get sales on a book called Current Thing of Shazam! or whatever, but so what? It isn't really a Captain Marvel book and won't lead to new authentic Captain Marvel stories, just more inauthentic stories. The only thing Johns and Waid have actually succeeded in is finding a way to make money out of this stuff for DC, meaningt the thing they've "saved from obscurity" is their own shitty book and nothing else.
4 months ago
Anonymous
>It isn't really a Captain Marvel book and won't lead to new authentic Captain Marvel stories, just more inauthentic stories
Your devotion to authentic captain marvel stories is meaningless.
4 months ago
Anonymous
Incorrect, they've given me many happy and rewarding hours of reading and continue to do so. And they'll go on being read and enjoyed by others when Johns and Waid wither into dust and start being treated as the footnotes in comic book history they always were.
4 months ago
Anonymous
Golden Age Captain Marvel is only liked by comic book hipsters and only because it lets them complain about more popular characters like Superman.
4 months ago
Anonymous
>People don't actually like the things they like. I know it's true because a meme said so.
Frick off, twitter.
4 months ago
Anonymous
It's not that you don't like it, it's just that you like it for the wrong reasons.
4 months ago
Anonymous
*All Golden Age comics are only liked by hipsters
FIXED
4 months ago
Anonymous
Golden Age Captain Marvel is only liked by comic book hipsters and only because it lets them complain about more popular characters like Superman.
You're arguing with a hardcore autist
4 months ago
Anonymous
Your writing sucks, Geoff.
4 months ago
Anonymous
Hey I'm not the one sperging out over facts
4 months ago
Anonymous
>facts
4 months ago
Anonymous
I think this thread has proven (You) don't know what a lot of words mean, anon
4 months ago
Anonymous
It's proven (You) don't care about quality, just content for content's sake. You are the generation that bought more Funko Pops.
4 months ago
Anonymous
So the preferable alternative is to let the character die and fade to obscurity because NOT MUH
>we got people nostalgic for the Geoff Johns era of Shazam >I'm also saying Shazam because I hate what Waid and DC did to Billy and Mary >I legit miss the Shazamilly
How do you call this thing we're experiencing?
>With the DCEU dying and them not actually following up on the Mr. Mind teaser (the frick was up with that?), not many were interested.
That was supposedly a joke of no one, not even Sivana, knowing what's going to happen
Is this a dog whistle or something? Are you that convinced that any diversity is white genocide?
I think it was a "what would you expect from that hack corporation and hack writers" but could be both.
I really hate that they hired someone that doesn't know Shazam comics to write his movie. Johns wanted someone that would simply play safe and copy his run so he could have all royalties.
4 months ago
Anonymous
No offense but if these thread has taught me anything is that the shazam comics you people like are not worth it.
>Shazam 2 was so disappointing.
So was the first one.
Shazam 2 had Freddy getting a 3000 years old dragon as girlfriend, to me that's better and more based than anything that came out this year.
So it's kino even if you want to deny it.
That's something that always bothered me about the Shazam name change, you can't call her Mary Marvel anymore. So what the frick is her superhero name? It's been years and they still haven't come up with one. Everybody just calls her Mary and that's it. How have they not given her a superhero name?
I don't blame for not keeping up with it, but they made her Mary Marvel in the aftermath of the Lazarus Planet event. >What about Billy?
They still refuse to outright call him Captain Marvel, but since Waid is writing him and he's the kind of ultra boomer who'd rather die before calling him Shazam, Billy is now The Captain.
I wonder how he'll handle Freddy once he gets his powers back.
I think they toyed with names like Mary Shazam and Lady Shazam in suplemental material, but lately she's back to Mary Marvel.
Isn't the whole reason they can't use the name Marvel because of Marvel copyright? How can they use Mary Marvel without getting sued? Does that mean Marvel could make a character named Donald DC?
Marvel owns the copyright to title a comic "Captain Marvel" and can't copyright the word "marvel" outright. DC could title their comic "Shazam" and call Billy "Captain Marvel" in the story but can't use it in promotional stuff. I doubt Marvel copyrighted "Mary Marvel" but yes you can make guy named Billy DC and they couldn't do anything about it. Case in point there is a shoe company named "DC Shoes" and had a logo close to DC's so they tried to sue them over the logo. DC comics lost the lawsuit because they failed to properly copyright their logo.
>DC comics lost the lawsuit because they failed to properly copyright their logo.
Which was one of the most moronic things in their history. How did that even happen? Did it get lost in a clerical error? Did the intern in charge of filing it lose the paperwork and lie about it?
They could have settled it and released a special edition with the comics logo.
>DC comics lost the lawsuit because they failed to properly copyright their logo.
Which was one of the most moronic things in their history. How did that even happen? Did it get lost in a clerical error? Did the intern in charge of filing it lose the paperwork and lie about it?
They could have settled it and released a special edition with the comics logo.
This is actually something that got telephoned. The shoe company started in 1994, and its logo has "DC" with a single star at the end. The issue started with DC's 2005 logo, with the single star orbiting the "DC." It was actually DC Comics that infringed on DC Shoes' established logo, which is why that logo only lasted 7 years. So it wasn't "DC forgot to trademark its logo way back when and a shoe company took advantage," it was "DC forgot to check if its new logo was infringing on another company's pre-existing logo." Either that or they thought being a comic entertainment company was substantially different enough from being a shoe company that there would be no legal infringement, but that quickly didn't hold water when DC puts its logos on all sorts of merchandise, including shoes.
Some will complain as usual, since it is pretty much a half-measure, but I'm fine with it, we all know what he's the Captain of anyway. Also when I was a kid, I used to call myself "The Captain" too so there's that bonus appeal for me.
You just reminded me how Shazam 2 sucked but I still wished it made 1 billion just to make people care about Shazam
Shazam 2 didn't suck but it was incredibly mid. I REALLY hope Gunn reboots the character for the DCU eventually. God I want to see the Shazamily again in a good movie, with them actually meeting Black Adam.
That's something that always bothered me about the Shazam name change, you can't call her Mary Marvel anymore. So what the frick is her superhero name? It's been years and they still haven't come up with one. Everybody just calls her Mary and that's it. How have they not given her a superhero name?
I mean, can't DC still call him Captain Marvel? That's one thing about the Shazam Family, it's like no one has proper superhero names.
He wasn't published during the silver age due to being in legal limbo. This means the boomers missed out on him and they kinda dictated how things went for the second half of the century
>Buying your own tickets once to score an easy win >Years later attempts to see if the audience is so feminist that can get you money without tricks >Fails
It sure did, Anon.
Most comic book writers are joyless hipsters unable to write kids characters (hence why every single kid character gets aged up almost instantly) also there is an entire generation of writers that believe kid characters are annoying and uninteresting, or maybe believe they would make look the comic medium as something childish
Once upon a time, he was more popular than Superman.
Then DC sued them with a frivolous lawsuit that dragged on for years until every superhero comic company except DC and Marvel went under.
Then DC buried him for a few years to be sure.
Well, he actually uses trick arrows, which I really doubt are all made out of regular wood, I don't think he should change his name to Green Archer or Trick Arrow.
And then there's Green Arrow, who shoots regular wooden arrows. Strange.
He should call himself Rich Hood, he is a rich Robin Hood that steals from the poors and keeps from himself
4 months ago
Anonymous
What? I thought Green Arrow's whole thing was about helping the poor. There's a comic where he steals dinner from some rich people so that he can give it to a homeless guy.
as long as the plot requires.
But in serious seems on Superman level to above, like Wonder Woman in some stories.
the original had the toonforce in the sense he could lift the sun and shit.
Later he was magically powerful so could lift cars but at times nothing exaggerated to make the plot more grounded
Just fricking call him Captain Marvel again. Or 'Captain Thunder' or something.
Because he’s become outdated. Fanboys think the hokey throwback is a core appeal of the character but the repeated failures of that concept prove that modern audiences don’t care for it and find it too silly to be appealing.
>but the repeated failures of that concept
First Shazam movie outsold expectations when the DCEU was halfway dead and the second one was only a failure because everyone knew the DCEU was done by that point.
Make a proper DC cinematic universe, give the character a movie or tv series, and I'll bet you people will actually watch it.
Because he’s become outdated. Fanboys think the hokey throwback is a core appeal of the character but the repeated failures of that concept prove that modern audiences don’t care for it and find it too silly to be appealing.
is talking about here.
Because there's a difference between writing Billy like a normal kid and then writing him like a weirdo kid.
Oh you mean like with Johns' nu52 reboot? Admittedly I didn't care for that aspect of it, but you don't really need to write Billy to be as cynical as he was there either. Just write him as a good, well-meaning foster kid. Make him a regular kid but not a super mischievous one either.
Here's the thing though, there are more instances of Billy acting like a weird kid who goes around saying gee whilikers we should always listen to authority that I don't think you would know what an regular kid acts like.
And yeah I'm treating this like a binary, you're either cool with Geoff John's Billy Batson or you're a weirdo who thinks kids should go around in knickerbockers giving shiny red apples to schoolmarms
>And yeah I'm treating this like a binary, you're either cool with Geoff John's Billy Batson
Or so you're a moron then.
Mark Waid has been writing Billy well in the current book and he's not a 'gee whiz' Leave it to Beaver type nor is he a borderline teenaged delinquent like in the nu52 either.
4 months ago
Anonymous
>Mark Waid has been writing Billy well in the current book
Nah he's a weirdo just like you because It's weirdo behavior to deny Billy any rough edges.
4 months ago
Anonymous
>Nah he's a weirdo just like you because It's weirdo behavior to deny Billy any rough edges.
Yeah I'm not going to have this back and forth with you. You're a fricking idiot.
4 months ago
Anonymous
>Yeah I'm not going to have this back and forth with you
You already are and why not, What else is there to discuss? To me your reaction towards Curse of Shazam's Billy is a ridiculous one, like frick you any kid in Billy's situation has every right to express angry and its not a virture to suggest otherwise.
Because he’s become outdated. Fanboys think the hokey throwback is a core appeal of the character but the repeated failures of that concept prove that modern audiences don’t care for it and find it too silly to be appealing.
Even Disney films aimed at little kids understand that angst isnt a bad word.
Being an orphan living on the street would suck and acknowledging that is not 2edgy4u storytelling.
It’s impossible to have good Billy threads because we have a hardcore charactergay autist who doesn’t even understand the character he’s rabidly “defending”. It’s the same song and dance every thread, propping Batson as some Christ figure with no flaws and attacking anyone who infers otherwise
This thread has been the complete opposite. I don't even come to this site that often anymore. I basically just pop in to have discussion on comics every now and then. But you've got this raging idiot attacking everyone in here because they have the nerve to not like edgy Billy Batson.
I come to these threads once a month and in it there is always some autistic hateboner for who says that Billy should be more developed than the "I'm just a vehicle for my superhero form" that he was until got revamped
You lie and it’s pathetic
>all of a sudden Cinemaphile really likes edgy Billy
What the frick happened?
I come to these threads once a month and in it there is always some autistic hateboner for who says that Billy should be more developed than the "I'm just a vehicle for my superhero form" that he was until got revamped
>Billy should be more developed than the "I'm just a vehicle for my superhero form" that he was until got revamped
Not if Waid has anything to say about it.
DC stopped making comics for young boys
National Comics killed his publisher in 1953 after almost a decade of lawsuits trying to achieve that
DC (which was still officially National at the time) rented Fawcett's Captain Marvel starting in 1972, purely out of an ill-thought-out spiteful attempt to hurt Marvel Comics, who had by then been using their own Captain Marvel for five years and the name Marvel Comics - after Marvel Mystery Comics, which debuted a couple of months prior to Fawcett's Captain Marvel - for ten years
not content with turning the son of Fawcett into an orphan, DC made him a rent boy as well, but immediately found that Marvel owned the trademark and they (DC) had spent a lot of money on a thing they didn't want
they tried making the best of it and even bought the character outright in 1977 (along with the rest of Fawcett's back catalog), by which time Marvel Comics had graciously allowed DC to reprint old Fawcett strips and use the character both under another name (as Shazam, originally, in the tv show that Warner Bros - DC's owners even then - made so that the rights wouldn't be a total waste) and under the name Captain Marvel, as long as this wasn't used in marketing material or on covers
so in longer answer to OP's question, because he was out of print for 20 years when Superman and Batman weren't, and because unlike Spider-Man he wasn't being printed by a popular comic book publisher when he was resurrected by DC - they were selling half what Marvel sold at the time, and most of it was Superman/Batman comics
his tv show (and later the Isis show) and his cartoon were reasonably popular for a time but quickly forgotten as special effects and animation quality drastically improved over the decade following, and lacked the humor of, say, the 1966 Batman show or the 90s Lois & Clark show that drew audiences in
Because he wasn't a "pushed" character, at least, not after the height of his popularity after WWII. He saw a brief revival in the 70s after DC bought him and the TV show came out, but they never made an effort to continuously keep him in the spotlight.
DC comics got mad at captain marvel being a bit similar to superman in the 50s-60s
DC got outright pissed because at the time Captain Marvel was more popular than Superman and the basically sued Fawcett out of existence
This anon speaks the truth. This shit
is revisionism.
OG sales were already declining hard post-WW2 and you can actually see this by reading the original comics yourself and seeing them try to change up the formula and story types to chase genres that were becoming more popular. Fawcett was perfectly happy to fight in court so long as Captain Marvel remained profitable: the original lawsuit didn't go to trial in 1948 and Fawcett originally won, with DC (National) only winning an appeal in 1951 with that appeal being provisionally overturned in 1952 before being sent back for a final ruling. It was during that final hearing that Fawcett decided that the sales weren't enough anymore and settled out of court in 1953.
Now what you can argue is that the lawsuit prevented Fawcett from taking advantage of the CCA being adopted in 1954 which surely would've caused Captain Marvel's popularity to rebound, but given the declining sales there's no guarantee Fawcett wouldn't have pulled the plug in '53 anyway.
So yes DC were frivolous c**ts for suing them, but that's not why Fawcett Marvel died, declining sales were.
Alex Ross depicted him the best in this art style!
Nah, Ordway and Peter Krause if you're ignoring Beck.
But I also hate Ross.
sabotage
they don't want the character that they murdered for eclipsing Superman to eclipse him again
Billy sold more copies for a short time; if DC cared as much about Clark being eclipsed as some of you Billy die-hards relentlessly b***h about, they would kill-off all their Bruce solo titles - instead ....
Fawcett was stupid enough to shoot itself in the foot, including not properly attending to their intellectual property which is why Billy will never be Captain Marvel ever again but apparently you children can't get past that and obviously never will.
>if DC cared
DC couldn't stop manga. What makes you think they are capable of permanently killing a character. They couldn't kill Superman to begin with.
We are not the b***hes, DC is
He’s what Superman and Batman would have been without a steady presence in radio, movies, and television.
Also israelites.
Because ever since DC bought the character, his stories have been nothing like the CC Beck funnies that made him a success in the first place.
With the notable exception of the Jeff Smith Monster Society of Evil GN.
An anon of culture I see.
DC didn't really bother with him.
Bad design and crappy backstory.
The kid turned full grown superhero thing is niche. Most people like the idea of an adult that wears a costume. He just doesn't come across as tough or cool. Spiderman's design isn't tough, but its cool. You gotta have at least one.
Captain Marvel has just never had a lot going for him mass appeal-wise. That isn't to say he's a bad title, rather there simply isn't enough gas in the tank.
>Bad design
They plagiarized it for the flash
Source on that info?
The Jay Garrick Flash debuted 1 month before Captain Marvel.
>Bad design and crappy backstory.
Outsold Superman.
For a few months. It’s greatly exaggerated
DC evidently thought otherwise.
t. Supergay
Captain Marvel appealed to a very specific generation of kids who came out of the Depression and were dealing with the realities of WW2, full of broken homes and absent father figures, wanting a power fantasy they could escape in to. His popularity was already waning after the war to the point where the lawsuit was merely a nail in the coffin. This is why revival attempts have always fallen flat, because without that kid appeal he's just "what if Superman but kid."
superman buck broke billy.
Because people write him to appeal to old men.
He can be appealing to any kind of generation, right?
Wrong, they write him to appeal to people who never read the original comics.
So like the majority of people?
Gatekeeping exists for a reason
Gatekeep good ideas instead.
How about you just stick to Current Thing normie geek stuff? It's clearly your comfort zone and you flounder when you step outside it.
It's more relatable.
>Why isn't this book about meeeee?
Yeah, you're a normie all right.
It's better to have a wider market then no market at all.
Narrow, short-term thinking. Have you considered a career in politics?
Captain Marvel purists are a non-existent market audience that pissing them off with deviations from the original concept is literally a net positive
>hates comics
>hates fans
I had no idea Tom Brevoort posted here
You're the worse type of fan though, your comics from the 1940s boring to talk about.
Take your Ritalin.
It's like the exact opposite in that there's nothing of substance to them.
>here's captain marvel with some penguins isn't that so wacky and funny?!?!?
>I don't like it therefore it bad
Really showing off your intelligence, here
>went into a lighthearted cape comic expecting "substance"
Perhaps the problem isn't the comic?
The Shazamily is lighthearted and substantial.
>Geoff Johns and Mark Waid
>substance
Curse of Shazam was objectively the best outing the character ever had.
You are objectively moronic.
You can whine but that's exactly the kind of kid character that resonates more to other kids.
He doesn’t get laid
I think it's because writers just get too sanctimonious with him and just can't actually have fun with it.
Sanctimonious and sterilized.
>costume has barely changed
The costume is pretty much ok but it's the fact he's just look likes a Superman caricature is the real problem.
He was actually created before Superman so maybe it's Superman that should stop copying him.
Honestly?
The concept of the character is convoluted compared to early Superman, Batman and Spider-Man.
The more convoluted the concept, the harder it is for the audience to get into it.
>convoluted
A wizard gives a boy the power to turn into a superhero.
Kids these days want power but the adult body is effectively a middle man to said power.
Ben 10 had more success and he was virtually the same as the Captain
That's intentional. The premise of the OG Ben 10 was a complete ripoff(read- loving homage) to the 70's Shazam series.
To Dial H For Hero too
A lot of characters aren't as popular as those 3, that's nothing to be ashamed of. Billy is still plenty popular and fun
I think we need to acknowledge that Billy is in a good spot right now, better than he's ever been
You don't even know who he is.
What are you talking about?
Yes, exactly. And I know this is going to piss Cinemaphile off but part of that is due to Geoff Johns keeping him out of modern obscurity.
>Geoff Johns keeping him out of modern obscurity.
Johns didn't do shit. The characters are the Marvel Family in name only.
>Johns didn't do shit.
This is exactly what I'm talking about, the blind hategay autism. I don't give a shit about the "not muh" whining, I'm talking about the FACT that without Johns DC would have let Billy fade away into obscurity
>I don't give a shit about the "not muh"
Yes, we've already established you're pig ignorant about Captain Marvel and have no clue about anything unless it's Current Thing.
Anon, your ability to follow a conversation topic and communication skills are severely lacking. If you weren't so focused on shitposting and insulting people, you'd see what I'm talking about
>you'd see what I'm talking about
It's possible to see what you're talking about and disagree with it. I'm doing both, in case that was unclear.
We were talking about the character remaining relevant, which you steered the conversation into creative decisions which is a completely different topic entirely.
>you steered the conversation into creative decisions
Creative decisions directly feed into making a character "relevant". But "relevancy" is a nebulous chimera that can be made to mean whatever the person using the word wants it to mean. And if it means (as it appears to mean in this instance) creating essentially new personalities and making them walk around in Marvel Family skinsuits in stories that are tonally nothing like a Captain Marvel story, then sure, Johns has made Captain Marvel (or at least his outward form) "relevant".
You can twist this however you want. The fact of the matter is that you throwing a tantrum about the Shazamily has nothing to do with what we were talking about. Geoff Johns kept Billy out of obscurity by using him in JSA, DC didn't want anything to do with him.
>Creative decisions directly feed into making a character "relevant".
I'm not saying the don't. You make not like what was done, but it doesn't change what I said. Again, two different topics you're throwing a fit over for some reason
Like I said, "relevancy" is a chimera. Chasing it is meaningless. You get sales on a book called Current Thing of Shazam! or whatever, but so what? It isn't really a Captain Marvel book and won't lead to new authentic Captain Marvel stories, just more inauthentic stories. The only thing Johns and Waid have actually succeeded in is finding a way to make money out of this stuff for DC, meaningt the thing they've "saved from obscurity" is their own shitty book and nothing else.
>It isn't really a Captain Marvel book and won't lead to new authentic Captain Marvel stories, just more inauthentic stories
Your devotion to authentic captain marvel stories is meaningless.
Incorrect, they've given me many happy and rewarding hours of reading and continue to do so. And they'll go on being read and enjoyed by others when Johns and Waid wither into dust and start being treated as the footnotes in comic book history they always were.
Golden Age Captain Marvel is only liked by comic book hipsters and only because it lets them complain about more popular characters like Superman.
>People don't actually like the things they like. I know it's true because a meme said so.
Frick off, twitter.
It's not that you don't like it, it's just that you like it for the wrong reasons.
*All Golden Age comics are only liked by hipsters
FIXED
You're arguing with a hardcore autist
Your writing sucks, Geoff.
Hey I'm not the one sperging out over facts
>facts
I think this thread has proven (You) don't know what a lot of words mean, anon
It's proven (You) don't care about quality, just content for content's sake. You are the generation that bought more Funko Pops.
So the preferable alternative is to let the character die and fade to obscurity because NOT MUH
Objectively not better than he was during the golden age. But sure, better than he's been for decades.
The fanboys that run DC really don't like the idea of people liking or reading him over Superman.
Also the weird way they kept CM comics in a 1950s bubble makes it annoying to read.
>we got people nostalgic for the Geoff Johns era of Shazam
>I'm also saying Shazam because I hate what Waid and DC did to Billy and Mary
>I legit miss the Shazamilly
How do you call this thing we're experiencing?
You just reminded me how Shazam 2 sucked but I still wished it made 1 billion just to make people care about Shazam
With the DCEU dying and them not actually following up on the Mr. Mind teaser (the frick was up with that?), not many were interested.
>With the DCEU dying and them not actually following up on the Mr. Mind teaser (the frick was up with that?), not many were interested.
That was supposedly a joke of no one, not even Sivana, knowing what's going to happen
Shazam 2 was so disappointing. Billy wasn't even the main character. Movie felt like it was more about Freddie
>Shazam 2 was so disappointing.
So was the first one.
What else did you actually expect from them?
Is this a dog whistle or something? Are you that convinced that any diversity is white genocide?
I think it was a "what would you expect from that hack corporation and hack writers" but could be both.
I really hate that they hired someone that doesn't know Shazam comics to write his movie. Johns wanted someone that would simply play safe and copy his run so he could have all royalties.
No offense but if these thread has taught me anything is that the shazam comics you people like are not worth it.
Even the Golden Age Captain Marvel comics?
Those especially.
A Captain Marvel story. We got Geoff Johns instead.
Shazam 2 had Freddy getting a 3000 years old dragon as girlfriend, to me that's better and more based than anything that came out this year.
So it's kino even if you want to deny it.
How many roles has she appeared in?
That's something that always bothered me about the Shazam name change, you can't call her Mary Marvel anymore. So what the frick is her superhero name? It's been years and they still haven't come up with one. Everybody just calls her Mary and that's it. How have they not given her a superhero name?
I don't blame for not keeping up with it, but they made her Mary Marvel in the aftermath of the Lazarus Planet event.
>What about Billy?
They still refuse to outright call him Captain Marvel, but since Waid is writing him and he's the kind of ultra boomer who'd rather die before calling him Shazam, Billy is now The Captain.
I wonder how he'll handle Freddy once he gets his powers back.
Isn't the whole reason they can't use the name Marvel because of Marvel copyright? How can they use Mary Marvel without getting sued? Does that mean Marvel could make a character named Donald DC?
Marvel owns the copyright to title a comic "Captain Marvel" and can't copyright the word "marvel" outright. DC could title their comic "Shazam" and call Billy "Captain Marvel" in the story but can't use it in promotional stuff. I doubt Marvel copyrighted "Mary Marvel" but yes you can make guy named Billy DC and they couldn't do anything about it. Case in point there is a shoe company named "DC Shoes" and had a logo close to DC's so they tried to sue them over the logo. DC comics lost the lawsuit because they failed to properly copyright their logo.
>DC comics lost the lawsuit because they failed to properly copyright their logo.
Which was one of the most moronic things in their history. How did that even happen? Did it get lost in a clerical error? Did the intern in charge of filing it lose the paperwork and lie about it?
They could have settled it and released a special edition with the comics logo.
This is actually something that got telephoned. The shoe company started in 1994, and its logo has "DC" with a single star at the end. The issue started with DC's 2005 logo, with the single star orbiting the "DC." It was actually DC Comics that infringed on DC Shoes' established logo, which is why that logo only lasted 7 years. So it wasn't "DC forgot to trademark its logo way back when and a shoe company took advantage," it was "DC forgot to check if its new logo was infringing on another company's pre-existing logo." Either that or they thought being a comic entertainment company was substantially different enough from being a shoe company that there would be no legal infringement, but that quickly didn't hold water when DC puts its logos on all sorts of merchandise, including shoes.
I will say "The Captain" is a way cooler name than Shazam.
Some will complain as usual, since it is pretty much a half-measure, but I'm fine with it, we all know what he's the Captain of anyway.
Also when I was a kid, I used to call myself "The Captain" too so there's that bonus appeal for me.
I think they toyed with names like Mary Shazam and Lady Shazam in suplemental material, but lately she's back to Mary Marvel.
>you can't call her Mary Marvel anymore.
Yes you can.
Huh? Is she gonna voice someone in Fallout V? In Elder Scrolls VI?
Shazam 2 didn't suck but it was incredibly mid. I REALLY hope Gunn reboots the character for the DCU eventually. God I want to see the Shazamily again in a good movie, with them actually meeting Black Adam.
I mean, can't DC still call him Captain Marvel? That's one thing about the Shazam Family, it's like no one has proper superhero names.
Was the name a shot at marvel cause Shazam does sound cooler plus captain marvel would be a bit confusing because of marvel and now the character
He wasn't published during the silver age due to being in legal limbo. This means the boomers missed out on him and they kinda dictated how things went for the second half of the century
How old is the youngest GA Captain Marvel enjoyer?
Was born after 2000
because he doesn't have big round boobies
They have.
Good thing having big boobs and being female saved that other Captain Marvel movie right???
Her movie made a billion dollars so it did
>Buying your own tickets once to score an easy win
>Years later attempts to see if the audience is so feminist that can get you money without tricks
>Fails
It sure did, Anon.
>still seething about best girl's smash hit success a full five years later
You will be raped b***h
Very mature, will you rape me or?
Recommend a cool/good comics of him.
Most comic book writers are joyless hipsters unable to write kids characters (hence why every single kid character gets aged up almost instantly) also there is an entire generation of writers that believe kid characters are annoying and uninteresting, or maybe believe they would make look the comic medium as something childish
What's the appeal of this superhero character?
silent generation boomers first power fantasy
Once upon a time, he was more popular than Superman.
Then DC sued them with a frivolous lawsuit that dragged on for years until every superhero comic company except DC and Marvel went under.
Then DC buried him for a few years to be sure.
Captain Marvel?
>Golden Arrow
I feel like this character should be named Golden Archer instead. It much more better and fitting for the name.
Isn't part of his gimmick that he shoots actual golden arrows?
And then there's Green Arrow, who shoots regular wooden arrows. Strange.
Well, he actually uses trick arrows, which I really doubt are all made out of regular wood, I don't think he should change his name to Green Archer or Trick Arrow.
He should just call himself Arrow, really lay claim to the theme.
He should call himself Rich Hood, he is a rich Robin Hood that steals from the poors and keeps from himself
What? I thought Green Arrow's whole thing was about helping the poor. There's a comic where he steals dinner from some rich people so that he can give it to a homeless guy.
>Golden Archer
It's been done. Also pic related's last name is McDonald so he's one big fast food joke.
How powerful is he by the way?
as long as the plot requires.
But in serious seems on Superman level to above, like Wonder Woman in some stories.
the original had the toonforce in the sense he could lift the sun and shit.
Later he was magically powerful so could lift cars but at times nothing exaggerated to make the plot more grounded
more than superman.
Who's the Captain here?
the big man
So, he is The Captain now huh?
There's already been a Captain.
Why's The Captain look like that?
Who even is Mark Waid. I have never heard of him before?
Wrote Kingdom Come, Superman Birthright, a popular run on the Flash, among other stuff.
He's the guy doing the current Shazam book.
Because you're an idiot. He made Kingdom Come.
>Duhhh what's that
Fricking secondaries.
Just fricking call him Captain Marvel again. Or 'Captain Thunder' or something.
>but the repeated failures of that concept
First Shazam movie outsold expectations when the DCEU was halfway dead and the second one was only a failure because everyone knew the DCEU was done by that point.
Make a proper DC cinematic universe, give the character a movie or tv series, and I'll bet you people will actually watch it.
You misunderstood what
is talking about here.
Because there's a difference between writing Billy like a normal kid and then writing him like a weirdo kid.
Oh you mean like with Johns' nu52 reboot? Admittedly I didn't care for that aspect of it, but you don't really need to write Billy to be as cynical as he was there either. Just write him as a good, well-meaning foster kid. Make him a regular kid but not a super mischievous one either.
Here's the thing though, there are more instances of Billy acting like a weird kid who goes around saying gee whilikers we should always listen to authority that I don't think you would know what an regular kid acts like.
And yeah I'm treating this like a binary, you're either cool with Geoff John's Billy Batson or you're a weirdo who thinks kids should go around in knickerbockers giving shiny red apples to schoolmarms
>And yeah I'm treating this like a binary, you're either cool with Geoff John's Billy Batson
Or so you're a moron then.
Mark Waid has been writing Billy well in the current book and he's not a 'gee whiz' Leave it to Beaver type nor is he a borderline teenaged delinquent like in the nu52 either.
>Mark Waid has been writing Billy well in the current book
Nah he's a weirdo just like you because It's weirdo behavior to deny Billy any rough edges.
>Nah he's a weirdo just like you because It's weirdo behavior to deny Billy any rough edges.
Yeah I'm not going to have this back and forth with you. You're a fricking idiot.
>Yeah I'm not going to have this back and forth with you
You already are and why not, What else is there to discuss? To me your reaction towards Curse of Shazam's Billy is a ridiculous one, like frick you any kid in Billy's situation has every right to express angry and its not a virture to suggest otherwise.
maybe if WB could make decent movies his popularity could have risen. Mary Marvel's popularity rose.
wasted the perfect actress for Mary and got away with it
BIG
How BIG are we talking here?
bigger than head
This thread is pretty Marvelous i do say so myself.
Because he’s become outdated. Fanboys think the hokey throwback is a core appeal of the character but the repeated failures of that concept prove that modern audiences don’t care for it and find it too silly to be appealing.
Yeah but maybe this time Waid is finally onto something by doing the exact same shit he's always done with Billy but with Dan Mora instead.
>Can anyone tell me why Captain Marvel(SHAZAM!) isn't as popular like Superman, Spider-Man and Batman is?
?t=3
>Captcha:TV02M
Reminder that Billy doesn't need DC angst or "realism" because neither has anything to do the Fawcett Comics character or the setting.
Even Disney films aimed at little kids understand that angst isnt a bad word.
Being an orphan living on the street would suck and acknowledging that is not 2edgy4u storytelling.
It’s impossible to have good Billy threads because we have a hardcore charactergay autist who doesn’t even understand the character he’s rabidly “defending”. It’s the same song and dance every thread, propping Batson as some Christ figure with no flaws and attacking anyone who infers otherwise
This thread has been the complete opposite. I don't even come to this site that often anymore. I basically just pop in to have discussion on comics every now and then. But you've got this raging idiot attacking everyone in here because they have the nerve to not like edgy Billy Batson.
What's wrong with Billy Batson having some edge to him?
>all of a sudden Cinemaphile really likes edgy Billy
What the frick happened?
He’s not even edgy, your stupid frick
This has always been an unspoken discourse between us, it's just the narrative been stacked so heavily one-sided that you didn't even know it.
they also miss calling him Shazam, Johns Shazam is now nostalgic
People been calling him Shazam before Geoff Johns too.
Did they?
Yeah because Captain Marvel wouldn't be the name advertised on the cover.
Do you think people called The Doctor like Doctor Who just because it was the title of his series?
Wait, he's NOT called Doctor Who?
>Cinemaphile
It's literally one Geoff Johns fanboy.
I come to these threads once a month and in it there is always some autistic hateboner for who says that Billy should be more developed than the "I'm just a vehicle for my superhero form" that he was until got revamped
>Billy should be more developed than the "I'm just a vehicle for my superhero form" that he was until got revamped
Not if Waid has anything to say about it.
I want an comic where it's nothing but Billy using his wits and few select magical items to save the day.
You lie and it’s pathetic
no, he is captain marvel