They did Franklin a favor by stopping associating him with mutants.
Who else do you think would be better off if they stopped being associated as a Mutant?
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Gojo?
That would go in Cinemaphile
Literally every character is better not being a mutant
Frankly this . The X-Gene was a stupid idea, and Stan even admits it was a lazy way to come up with superpower origins.
Take Wolverine and Sabretooth for example; do you know how much better both would be if they weren't lumped in with mutant bullshit? Two immortal brothers, Cain and Abel, their origins shrouded in mystery so much that even they forget the tale. Plus I miss Wolverine's old explanation of claws being implants Weapon X gave him. I'll go a step further and say Juggernaut should be removed from X-Men stuff too.
>There's a universe out there where Sabretooth stayed an Iron Fist villain
>and became an obscure d-list character
>>and became an obscure d-list character
And the world is better for it
Juggy isn't a mutant actually. He's mutant adjacent. He's a nepo mutie. His helmet is powered by an ancient god.
>Juggy isn't a mutant actually. He's mutant adjacent. He's a nepo mutie. His helmet is powered by an ancient god.
I know, sorry if that was implied. I was just saying he should be divorced from X-Men entirely because 9 times out of 10 he's more interesting interacting with heroes such as Thor, Hulk, and even Spider-Man. Given his origins to the ruby of Cyttorak, its even more doable. His big connection is Xavier, which frick that
Ahh I see. I do agree but it's tough to do since he's Xavier's bro an all.
>He's mutant adjacent. He's a nepo mutie.
They also get the rope.
I'm gonna be honest and say that Juggy having relations with an ancient god so he'd be like that is kind of lame
Yea him being a big guy who's just like that #45654 wouldn't be original either but people still like Rhino for who he is anyway
This one's pretty interesting.
holy shit it's moronic
Sounds a little like Loeb anon. Don't make storytime Loeb's Wolverine run
>There's a universe out there where Wolverine remained a throwaway character the Hulk fought once
They are not brothers.
true they're father and son
I think its fun to think of conventional origins for mutants/X-Men. Like for example what if Scott Summers was a volunteer to an experiment to restore his sight, but led to dire consequences?
>Scott is born blind and wishes he could see
>Mad scientist is experimenting with human perception, looking to see beyond this veil of reality.
>Cons Scott to participate in an experiment, claiming its a cure but in reality wants to use Scott as a "window" to see other planes of existence
>Scott is changed, and his eyes become portals to the punch dimension
>Cyclops is born
While still contrived it is better. Or we could go the other way. The extremely lazy way and just say absolutely anyone with powers has this x-gene. At least that makes more sense. But then we wouldn't have the conflict and that's the whole point of the x-men isn't it?
Since X-Men is basically ripping off Doom Patrol anyway, all you really to say is the team is comprised of powered people who aren't popular or can't adjust to civilian life given what they are. Kinda like if The Hulk was more of a team player outside of occasional Avengers stuff or Defenders. Mutants like Beast, Cyclops, and Rogue all have issues integrating in society given their powers
That's a great point. And I suppose there are plenty of non mutant powered people who fit that criteria. You could lump a lot of villains in there. Like the Rhino.
>Mad scientist
Mister Sinister.
I mean originally it was said that people were mutants cause their parents were involved in weird science stuff and because of radiation.
Mutants used to be a byproduct of the Atomic Age. Their parents/grandparents were exposed to the radiation, and because of that, their offspring got superpowers. How bout using gamma radiation instead as the cause? Keeps everything connected.
>How bout using gamma radiation instead as the cause?
That opens up a lot of problems considering what all that entails. You'd be better off using cosmic radiation, like what created the Fantastic Four and The U-Foes. Much more random
This sounds good, they could say that cosmic radiation arrives like solar storms, they hit the world from time to time but there are some pregnant women who are affected by this, causing their children to be born with these future powers.
The Fantastic Four would be different in that they were not born with these powers but rather went and exposed themselves outside of Earth in an accident, receiving a larger, purer dose and therefore the "X-men" would not consider them his peers, Magneto above all, would be the most jealous to know that there are people with powers like his, but much purer
>You'd be better off using cosmic radiation
Too geeky.
Oh, look at that. OP being a homosexual. Im shocked.
I know you'd like me to be a homosexual like you anon, but no, you can't suck my dick if that's what you wanted.
Firestar
They retconned Franklin into not being a Mutant again. Frankling willed himself into being a Mutant because he wanted a community to fit into.
In one comic, even the Celestials were getting annoyed at all the Hyper-Omnipotent Mutants that just show up out of nowhere. Writers just want to make Omnipotent characters but don't want to explain why they are Omnipotent, so they just say they are a Mutant.
>Writers just want to make Omnipotent characters but don't want to explain why they are Omnipotent, so they just say they are a Mutant.
This is basically the same as why most mutant character outside the X-Men books exist. Someone created a character but didn't want to do the work of writing an origin to explain why they had powers, so they just said they were a mutant. We had a Dazzler thread the other day where it was pointed out that her original concept and gimmick of being a singer who's also secretly a superheroine would still be workable if they hadn't made her a mutant, which led to her becoming just another minor X-Men character after her solo book got cancelled.
Firestar, Wanda and Pietro are characters who'd absolutely benefit from the X-books not being allowed to even mention them, as much as they'd benefit from not being mutants. Like with Beast, it's about protecting them.
>which led to her becoming just another minor X-Men character after her solo book got cancelled.
Specifically one editor wanted to keep Dazzler relevant so he forced Claremont to put her on the X-men since she had a string of appearances with Beast and other characters just before her solo ended (and the Beauty and the Beast mini).
Claremont did NOT want Dazzler on the X-Men since he didn't feel she fit the team but he had to take her and so gave her absolutely jack shit to do other than having her fall in love with Longshot and complain a lot. Which made her nobody's favorite and made her become a "disposable" X-Man.
>singer who's also secretly a superheroine would still be workable if they hadn't made her a mutant
with that said, she wouldn't get a mini-series, she will this year. and frankly, I don't like dazzler, so it's a waste of space for me
Dazzler is a shitty character, x-men or not
She can be salvaged if they updated her.
Not really. You already have Lila Cheney, and she isn't being used much either
All Dazzler updates have been terrible.
Omega level mutants and reality manipulators are basically creatively bankrupt characters. Shepard is another example of this. Literally got every power imaginable despite not being a reality manipulator. Only good thing about him is that no writers want to use him.
What the frick is with this obsession of the X-Men franchise making these stupidly OP characters, or scrambling to claim ownership of them like fricking pokemon? Like, who is this fricking gaywad in ?
X-men doesn't make sense without stupidly OP characters.
>mutants are more powerful than
>muties get wiped out or oppressed immediately due to being outside of state control
>mutants are strong enough to just brush off earth an already over powered planet
>other high-powered groups or entities shit down their throat for being a threat to cosmic hegemony
Mutants are at their best across all spectrums because it justifies both aggression from third-parties at all power scales and mutant resistance to said parties.
Mutants are a cosmic experiment that went far, far, far too well. They are the only population that can consistently produce cosmic tier individuals.
They have more flexibility than the Gods who are forever forced to 'fit' expectations. They are not bound with cycles or forces. They have more scaling than cosmic entities. There is never going to be an army of Galactuses - but with sufficient time there WILL be an army of Jeans/Davids/Jaspers ect.
And it's that overwhelming nature which justifies why every other force wants them dead. They just cannot be left unchecked. From street level muties posing an inherent threat to security and safety, omega morons threatening galactic empires, to even the top tier omegas becoming approaching the mantle of those who would dictate reality.
The entire setting is compelled to shit on them - and it's great. Mutants did nothing wrong but neither did the rest of reality retaliating against what is effectively an existential threat.
>X-men doesn't make sense without stupidly OP characters.
The problem is that if they're one of the good guys, then the bad guys would get stomped easy unless they're overpowered too. And at that point, it's just DBZ.
Magik would be better off as a magic character instead of a mutant associated with the X-men.
That makes no sense, all her relationships and main stories are in the X-Men, that's where her root is
She learned magic from (alternate Limbo) Storm!
It's a shared universe, who cares?
apparently OP, who as usual, is a homosexual
been there, done that. also strange is boring like shit
Make her Strange's apprentice.
>pic unrelated
they retconned him back. if the writer wants to use him as a mutant, they can
lol Slott literally retconned the mutant gene just so Hickman couldn't use him for his more popular X-Men stuff.
what a fricking little b***h
and North retconned it back. and frankly, everything that slott ever did was bad, so congrats on defending slott.
and they also blocked namor from having a bigger part as well. you know, it's always disingenuous to see threads like this where everyone want to take an x-men character and make him join a non x-men team, but if it happens the other way around, there is a massive seething suddenly
>you know, it's always disingenuous to see threads like this where everyone want to take an x-men character and make him join a non x-men team, but if it happens the other way around, there is a massive seething suddenly
The writers and editors at Marvel keep doing that because they like those characters, or because they're literal morons who genuinely believe some non-Wolverine, non-Deadpool character from the X-books is going to help sales in any way at all, but if you pay actual attention to the fans, to the readers, most of them DON'T want X-Men stuff in the other Marvel books. Marvel got a lot more aggressively obnoxious with this in recent years and nobody likes it at all. They've managed to get Spider-Man and Iron Man readers angry with this, Avengers readers don't want Storm on the team instead of an actual old Avengers character they could have had instead.
Literally the only X-Men character there's any call for at all to appear outside of the X-books is Beast, and that's just his own fans wanting someone else to come along save him from years of sustained abuse.
This. It's gotten to the point that Beast's the only mutant I want to see joining the Avengers because of how much more fricked up he's gotten since he's gotten more deeply immersed with the X-Men. It's like watching someone who was a halfway decent person turn into a deluded loon you can longer recognize because he started hanging out with a bunch of crazies that they gaslit into being just like them.
Good. Nothing good would have come from letting Franklin get involved with Krakoa
or maybe the other way, it would have made it much better and less hypocritical. not that a little c**t like you would ever know
what you fail to understand is that there is a reason that certain characters became popular, and it's not because of them being mutants. it's the X brand.
there was a thread about whirlwind being part of brotherhood, and it made me think how much MORE popular the character would be if he indeed was part of it. as of today, whirlwind is a very obscure simp for wasp and occasional d-list henchman to some villain, he never really developed beyond that.
the same would happen to every character mentioned in this thread. and franklin is ironically a good example, because both slott and north did basically FRICKALL with franklin.
Franlin being omega mutant god and a husband of rachel is the only interesting thing about him.
cont.
let's also remind about the fail inhumans era, when every new superpowered character became an inhuman. do I have to say that it failed spectacularly and everyone tries to forget it happened?
>there was a thread about whirlwind being part of brotherhood, and it made me think how much MORE popular the character would be if he indeed was part of it. as of today, whirlwind is a very obscure simp for wasp and occasional d-list henchman to some villain, he never really developed beyond that.
Yeah he could be as popular as Pyro or Avalanche
Yeah, they are actually more popular, they even had toys, appeared in more cartoon episodes, and if you asked random marvel reader, they would be more aware of them than a whirlwind
you also have characters like mandrill, nekra, portal who also are mutants, but somehow, they aren't really remembered either
>Franlin being omega mutant god and a husband of rachel is the only interesting thing about him.
So you like him for power level homosexualry and as an accessory to a different character? i.e. you don't actually care about Franklin being a mutant you just care about one of your many toys being taken away
No anon, I care about an interesting story. They are fictional characters, I don't treat them as waifus/husbandos, because I'm not that deranged
But go on, name me 1 interesting story that happened with franklin in the last 20 years
Modern FF comics may suck, but "Franklin goes through his emo phase" is at least an FF story and a story about Franklin. It's inherently got more going for it than the X-books just trying to grab Franklin to make him just another big gun in Krakatoa's arsenal.
>there was a thread about whirlwind being part of brotherhood, and it made me think how much MORE popular the character would be if he indeed was part of it. as of today, whirlwind is a very obscure simp for wasp and occasional d-list henchman to some villain, he never really developed beyond that.
But he wouldn't be the same character anymore. He wouldn't be the Whirlwind we know, he'd just be another interchangeable Brotherhood henchman. For all that
points out Pyro and Avalanche being in more cartoons and having slightly more toys than Whirlwind, it's hardly worth sacrificing what identity and individuality he does have for it.
The irony is that the general apathy to Whirlwind by the X-office has actually given the dude an actual personality trait of being a thug that actively avoids anyone with a higher cause beyond beating up people he hates and guaranteeing him a good pay day, specifically because he's paranoid of the backlash should said lofty dreams inevitably blow up in their faces and how he'll get the shaft in return. Which is at this point a lot more than either Pyro or Avalanche get, since their personalities have apparently never evolved beyond "lights things on fire" and "makes things quake cause he's a shitter".
>The irony is that the general apathy to Whirlwind by the X-office
This is actually a good point, if they'd ever wanted him they would have grabbed him, and nobody would likely have made much effort to stop them, Avengers editorial historically has let other books use much higher profile villains like Ultron and Kang whenever they want unless they're actually in an Avengers story at the same time.
>Which is at this point a lot more than either Pyro or Avalanche get, since their personalities have apparently never evolved beyond "lights things on fire" and "makes things quake cause he's a shitter".
In fairness, the one thing they did have beyond that is "they are friends", but that just meant there have been fujos shipping them since the 80s because they can't comprehend friendship.
>He wouldn't be the Whirlwind we know
Who gives a shit?
>He wouldn't be the Whirlwind we know
Oh no, he wouldn't be a pathetic simp to wasp, the horror!
>Characters who are/would be better off being in limbo
FTFY
They'll re-retcon him as one in a few years, don't worry
Is there any other comic with a more divisive fanbase than X-Men?
I don't consider the morons who clearly only use the x-men to whine about real world political groups to be real fans.
anti x-men gays. nobody whines more than them
Literally every fanbase? like spider-gays, batgays, whatevergays
None of them.
The problem isn't having characters classified as mutants. The problem is the modern idea, popularized in the post-Morrison era, that mutants can ONLY exist within the X-Titles. Mutants used to be just a feature of the Marvel universe, just another part of worldbuilding. But putting them all in the various X-titles makes the universe smaller and less nuanced and also puts a bunch of extra characters into the pressure cooker.
Rising to the top and getting actual screentime in an X-book is probably the most competitive thing possible at Marvel. The X-Men have several full rosters of iconic characters that originated in X-Men that they can't even feature all of them now, so dragging in more characters serves no purpose. A new writer who burns for that particular character can use them but then they become a background extra or fodder for big fight scenes.
This is tied to Marvel altering the context of mutant oppression with Morrison and beyond. It has severely damaged the allegory and is today so exaggerated that it's almost become a parody of itself
>It has severely damaged the allegory
There is no allegory. Morrison did not invent the setting. He can use the series allegorically, and he did, but the series is not an allegory.
The problem with X-Men is that it never should have touched the rest of the Marvel universe because it renders everything else down into powerscaling against it. How many actual non-mutants can go toe-to-toe with someone like Legion and expect to come out of it not a gibbering moron trapped in their own brain's k-hole?
See:
The issue is Morrison pushing X-men as a societal allegory when the original runs had X-men as a group who feared human censure but never specifically did anything for them, instead making sure there weren't any mutants out there making 'their side' look bad and inciting humans to action.
Mutants keeping to themselves makes perfect sense. They are aware that mutants are an inherently disorganised groups. They don't have traditional family structures and appear dispersed throughout the population. While individually they are strong collectively they are very vulnerable.
The counter to that is two fold and accurately portrayed in most eras of X-men:
Playing interference so humanity doesn't get too openly genocidal and covertly eliminating any and all threats that seem credible as they emerge.
It should be a muties worst nightmare for anyone to confront one of theirs - something the krakoa era gets sort of right. There was so much good in the premise and approach to krakoa that was just fricked so so so badly in execution. It is genuinely tragic.
Nah Franky-boy will never escape those origins regardless of the retcons. Just like how no one will EVER except Kamala as a mutant.
Franklyn's just a weaker but more stable David anyway. There's no reason for him not to be a mutant. It makes perfect sense. You don't see his power levels just appearing elsewhere.
Franklin being a mutant has never been relevant to his character. He’s also never had ties to the X-Men
Mutants are not and have never been a distinct species. They are simply a phenotype of humanity. You can't talk about "mutant society" or "mutant culture" because it's just humans all the way down.
And this is good because mutants being a different species totally sabotages whatever they try to say about discrimination and racism. Racism only exists within a species that's the entire point of it. Hating and fearing a different species is no longer racism.
Thus the distinction is important. Bigots want to paint mutants as The Other in order to treat them like animals with no legal protection. That's the point.
kys slott
Honestly, if you erased the whole X-Gene, and made a Cyclops solo with the Summers powers being tied to the Celestials, you'd get pretty much 70% of the important X-Men stories and it'd be for the best. Hidden under "X-Men" is a kino Space Opera starring Cyclops & Phoenix, but nobody will ever believe me.
This but maybe drop a few of the millions of alternate reality Summers kids and siblings
Or consolidate them all into one of two characters.
I like the Summers family as is tbh. A son, a daughter and an AU clone ain't so hard to keep track of. Were this an AU, I'd probably make Nathan and Rachel come from the same time, and turn Nate into a clone or something.
Cable, Nate, Rachel, Hope, Vulcan, Maddie... feels bloated. And that's not even going into the much less used ones like Ruby
If we're talking brothers/clones/etc, then yeah, it gets bad. Personally, were I writing an AU I'd
>drop Havok
Yeah he's the guy eternally in Scott's shadow, blablabla, who cares. He's dead weight.
>keep Vulcan
Make him a foil to Cyke and he works. Not exactly evil, tone down the childish tantrums, make him more like a detached Space Emperor, and you've got a nice basis.
>drop Maddie
If Sinister has Jean's DNA and can create a clone, why not just... make a proper kid from Jean's and Scott's DNA? You ask me, Nate should be the product of that, Sinister finally perfecting his tech and creating his ultimate weapon himself.
>keep Nate
He could be the Ben/Kaine of Nathan.
>make Nathan and Rachel siblings
Have Jean give birth to twins, and then take the "sent to the future" bit and give it both of them. They come back from a deleted timeline. In the meantime Nate's grown closer to his "parents" and that causes friction with the other two.
>delete Ruby
I don't like Scemma.
I think that's fine. And Corsair, come on, he's a literal Space Pirate, you can't drop him.
I think it's easier to just roll Rachel, Hope and Nathan into one character. It's what I do in my AU.
Franklin is still a mutant, he just turned off all of his powers for the majority of the year because he wants to be a normal boy for some reason.
>reality bending mutant uses his powers exclusively to protect himself from being in X-books
was right
bending mutant uses his powers exclusively to protect himself from being in X-books
Extremely based.
He will still frick Rachel and have a kid with her, no matter what
Rachel's a dyke forever now. Sorry
That was just one possible timeline on a highly disliked run. The only other instances showing an adult Franklin has him single or, weirdly enough, married to a Wakandan woman (which has been the case twice for some reason)
>married to a Wakandan woman
wow, how great that franklin has no ties to x-men then. truly, an improvement
I mean, it makes perfect sense.
His kid can be just as powerful as him, and they'd be black.
That's exactly what modern writers would love.
Rachel's gay now bro
What was Mutant before Marvel?
Clark and Dagger
Making them mutants just puts them in an even greater pidegeon hole than the one they're in. Let them be something else.
My choice would be they're some variation of magic