To be fair you need a firm grounding in the Upanishads, mastery of Sanskrit, and to never even have touched a toilet in your entire life to understand Snyder.
>who would call their mother by their first name in that situation? >the batman that the preceding two hours of the film established would've responded "there are more of you alien scum?" and would've impaled superman's frontal lobe with renewed vigor >batman killed a bunch of people without asking their mothers names and does not turn himself into the authorities when he has his "murder bad" revelation
that the line is fricking weird, Superman should have said something more sensical like "I'm sorry Martha" or "I can't die here, I must save Martha", both of these are dogshit but asking the man who's killing him to save a random woman he doesn't know without any context and by only referring her by first name is nonsensical. I like the movie overall and I understand the point of the scene, it's just the line itself is oddly written and bizarre and pretty much any alternative would have been better
>Superman should have said something more sensical like "I'm sorry Martha" or "I can't die here, I must save Martha"
I love it when people come up with something even worse than the original thing as an improvement.
Clark calling his mom Martha. That shit is alien as frick and out of character. If he'd said "Mom... I have to save her..." then it would have been in character for Clark AND Batman could have had a "wait, you've got a mom? And she's in danger?" moment, making him see Superman as human instead of otherworldly just as Snyder intended. As it is why wouldn't he just think the alien freak found out who he is and is trying to mock him by calling out his mom's name?
This is how he sounded on the Watchmen commentary. Probably even earlier than that, but I'm not gonna waste my tame to research this. So yes, he was always a fricking moron.
>He has the power to wipe out the entire human race, and if we believe there’s even a one percent chance that he is our enemy we have to take it as an absolute certainty… and we have to destroy him. >Wait, he has a mom? Never mind it's a all good
Snyder is the dumbest man working in Hollywood lol
It's the biggest commonality a human can have with an alien. Shortcut to Superman becoming humanized in Batman's eyes without it being convoluted, pretentious or difficult to understand.
Imagine if Superman let his mom die for no reason in Man of Steel, instead of his dad. Then BvS happens >save… Johnathan… >I only care about Thomas >*stabs Superman to death*
>Stop my god-like son that can move at speeds imperceptible to the naked eye, if you save me the only conclusion people will reach is that the blur they saw was my alien son from another planet
>be Superman >blatantly save my father with my superhuman abilities and everyone around sees it >call them all homosexuals and tell them that nobody will ever believe them if they say anything >if anyone gets fresh then I just hurl them into the tornado
it was that easy
>Stop my god-like son that can move at speeds imperceptible to the naked eye, if you save me the only conclusion people will reach is that the blur they saw was my alien son from another planet
Imagine if Superman let his mom die for no reason in Man of Steel, instead of his dad. Then BvS happens >save… Johnathan… >I only care about Thomas >*stabs Superman to death*
Considering the scale of the event we saw onscreen, I am absolutely certain Clark could have run over to the old man at a casual jog, scooped him up and ran back with him in front of hundreds of witnesses and they would have just been like "You're crazy, you coulda been killed" and he could've shrugged and been like "praise Jesus lol" and it'd just be that weird thing that everybody flatters and teases him about at a barbecue once a year
The Martha thing isn’t a moronic complaint. That scene was embarrassing to watch, and there was audible laughter in the theater. BVS was the worst movie I had ever seen until the last jedi came out
Explain what's wrong with it. It's humanizing and immediately creates common ground between the two on a more authentic level than if Superman just said "I like pizza, not all humans are bad"
Why wouldn't Batman sympathize with someone whose mother is about to get killed if that's what led him to become Batman in the first place?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
I reject your question. The reason it’s moronic isn’t because Batman sympathizes with someone’s mother being killed. The issue with the scene is what happens in it, not your interpretation of what happens in it. What happens in the scene is Superman inexplicably calls his mother by her first name, and then Batman can’t fight him because his mom has the same name. That is all that happens, and it’s stupid.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Batman can’t fight him because his mom has the same name
It's sheer madness that nobody in the creative process said "this is stupid, we should change this to be less stupid"
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>What happens in the scene is Superman inexplicably calls his mother by her first name, and then Batman can’t fight him because his mom has the same name
Why not when that's what Batman's entire pathology is centered around?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
If Batman found out Joker's or Two-face's or Ivy's or Penguin's mother was named Martha, would he let them go?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
No, because the difference is they actually committed a lot more crime than Superman who does his best to stop crime.
Batman was paranoid due to Superman's fight with Zod and the destructive capability a Kryptonian had. But Superman's record was still clean. Batman is the one who was in the wrong to try and kill Superman. He is the flawed one in this instance.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Superman's record was still clean
homie he killed half of the metropolis
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
To save it. What else was he supposed to do, not fight the guy who is trying to terraform the entire Earth? >but muh one city
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Superman's record was still clean
homie he killed half of the metropolis
No, because the difference is they actually committed a lot more crime than Superman who does his best to stop crime.
Batman was paranoid due to Superman's fight with Zod and the destructive capability a Kryptonian had. But Superman's record was still clean. Batman is the one who was in the wrong to try and kill Superman. He is the flawed one in this instance.
Something the movie could have leaned into more was Bruce seething because from his point of view on the ground Superman literally 9/11ed the shit out of the city but it was 100% Zod and he was just getting dragged along for it
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>hey zod, i know you wanna save the kryptonian race and i do too! how about we take your terraforming machine and the birthing matrix with us to mars and make a new krypton there?
That or do the Dragon Ball thing of taking the fight away from the city.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>i do too! >literally says "Krypton had its chance."
Zodd was smart enough to not fall for this psychopath
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
I think his intentional worst act was killing a bunch of babies and commiting genocide.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
But then it comes back to the original motivation. Superman's fight with the other Kryptonians would have killed thousands (and almost wiped out humanity completely) and Batman more than most have seen how bad humans can go when they go bad. If there is even a 1% chance that superman goes even 1% as bad as someone like Joker or Ivy, then humanity is done for.
This is a Batman who is broken so completely that he kills people for what they might do.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
That's what makes the Superman/Batman debate compelling in the first place. Because it's hard to tell who is justified. Superman is a potential planet destroying liability, yet he's also the individual who could save humanity from threats that humanity couldn't deal with on their own.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
And yet, it's "solved" in the eyes of the film because Bruce's mother and Clark's adopted mother shares a first name. And the only planet wide threat this version of earth has faced is Kryptonian.
It could be a compelling debate if it had been built up to properly over the course of a franchise, it isn't in the Snyderverse.
Why didn't he just rip the door open and, if asked by bystanders, tell it was already loose due to the damage? He could pretend to struggle with it a bit too. For what it's worth, I don't think anyone would be even asking questions about it. They'd assume the situation wasn't as bad as it looked.
Don't be stupid. Lots of people like to salute Roman style. It's not just fascists who throw up the old ave Caesar. Nazis do it too. And him doing the Roman salute doesn't necessarily mean he is a nazi or a fascist. He might just really hate the israelites.
>IF THERE IS 1% CHANCE HE TURNS AGAINST US WE NEED TO KILL HIM >THE SAME NAME AS THIS THING I CONSIDER NONHUMAN HAS THE SAME NAME AS MY DEAD MOM I AM GOING IIINSAAAANE
still fricking moronic
>"What else could he say to Batman, holding the Kryptonite spear about to plunge it into his heart — like, what is he gonna say to convince him that his love of humanity is as high as Batman's?" concluded Snyder. "I mean, really, Superman could kill him in a second, like literally in a second, so that was why I was like, 'Ok well, he's gotta play every possible trick.'"
That's not Superman playing a trick. It's the most logical thing to write in that scene, that's what Snyder is saying here.
Because in that context there is no other response on Superman's end that would make Batman rethink his choices.
the logical thing would be for Superman to say "save my mother", unless he was deliberately invoking the name Martha as a trick to freeze Batman, like Snyder says it is lol >that's gotta get him
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
But Superman didn't know Bruce's mother was named Martha. So it's not a trick. What Snyder is saying is that out of all the options, all the tricks in the proverbial book, Martha was the best thing to write in that scene because it was the strongest connection the two characters could have.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
you are chewing a sack of shit and trying to prove it is actually a chewing gum
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
I have issues with BvS, particularly with Lex Luthor who despite being similar to golden age Lex was still miscast, but the Martha scene never bothered me.
I guess people just don't give a shit about the concept/importance of the mother. That's fine.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
In that same video Snyder says he offered the role of Lex to DiCaprio first but he turned it down.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
I have issues with BvS, particularly with Lex Luthor who despite being similar to golden age Lex was still miscast, but the Martha scene never bothered me.
I guess people just don't give a shit about the concept/importance of the mother. That's fine.
I don't care if it's topical, making Lex a gay ADHD techbro was a terrible decision and it didn't help that around then the perfect Lex was burned in fricking Ant-Man
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
People DO give a shit about the concept of a mother, and no one calls their mother by first name, and that's precisely why it sounds off you to everyone else but you, fricking turbo sperg autist
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Martha makes all the difference as a soundbite. "My mother" in that framing, in that context, would be stupid and the scene wouldn't work.
Now, did the scene even need to have the mother stipulation in the first place? Maybe not. That's a whole other debate in itself. But it doesn't warrant the amount of, "fricking turbo sperg autist" nitpicking it got. For Christ's sake, it's a capeshit movie.
Speaking of which, I'm done debating a capeshit movie's merits.
So Steppenwolf fricked it up. All he had to say is that his mom is Martha, and Batman would stopped the bugs eating him alive, cause seeing this inhuman having the same name as his mom is shocking
We know, except this doesn't work because Batman literally talks about how Superman parents must've promised him a good life or someshit so yeah it's really only because they share the same name batman gave a frick.
I dont read comics so I know nothing about Superman or Batman, but have their mothers always had the same name? Did nobody find that weird for decades? And it was only until that movie that people acknowledged it? Isnt that fricking weird?
Superman's mom was originally named Mary, then a 1948 film serial named her Martha for some reason. Also, understand that shared universes were not a thing until many, many years after these two characters began publication and you are essentially criticizing two unrelated works for having a character share a first name.
>Although a "passing motorist" is described as having found the infant Kal-El in the character's first appearance in 1938's Action Comics #1, 1939's Superman #1 introduces Superman's adoptive parents to the mythos, with "Mary Kent" being the only parent given a name. The Kents' first names vary in stories from the 1940s. A 1942 Superman novel, The Adventures of Superman by George Lowther, gave the names "Eben and Sarah Kent"; Eben and Martha Kent were used in the 1948 Superman film serial; while Eben and Sarah Kent were used in the 1952 première of Adventures of Superman television series, but the first extensive retelling of Superman's origin in Superman #53 (July–August 1948, billed as the "10th Anniversary Issue!") names them "John and Mary Kent".
No. Martha Waye has always been named Martha. Ma Kent's name was Mary until the early 50s where it was changed to Marthe, which was most likely just a typo since it was changed to Martha after that.
Always? No. Bruce’s parents names were set in his first appearance in 1940, but Clark’s parents names went through several changes. Original, his dad was unnamed and his mom was Mary Kent. In the George Reeves show (which is very comfy and criminally underrated), they’re named Eben and Sarah Kent. For a while, they were named John and Mary Kent. In the 50s, Superboy comics became a thing, and the characters were expanded on. Originally, they didn’t do anything besides adopt him, and were only shown in retelling of his origin. Superboy comics were set in Smallville, and his backstory was fleshed out, and his parents were major characters. It was here they were given the names Jonathan and Martha. So, their moms have had the same names since the 50s.
nobody actually reads superman comics and batman has become AI slop, look at the picture, they blatantly put batfleck in multiple panels without rime or reason. Its pathetic. Nobody cares about thomas (maybe flashpoint thomas) and certainly less about martha
yeah I know about greg, "boy"
Those panels of Catwoman (most obviously the one where she's kissing Batman) "drawn" by Andrea Sorrentino are so blatantly AI generated art that got traced over.
The midjourney ass lighting, the inconsistent mask design that changes every other panel, literally Ben Affleck's Batman (most AI image generation tools are known to use Batfleck to train their "realistic Batman" models)...
I know Andrea has traced plenty of times before, but tracing over AI? That's a double offense. This only justifies comic piracy even more, I suppose.
Kinda wild that DC were either fooled or let this slide, considering being an artist on the main Batman run is one of the highest paying gigs for an artist in the industry.
Its a boring incoherent mess which brazenly squandered some of the most well established and cherished comic book characters in existence. The sheer incompetence it takes to put batman vs superman to screen and still
fail is beyond moronation and bordering malice.
NTA and I'm fine with that as a consensus but it's still funny how the Martha scene filtered people the way it did.
The incoherent "pajeet" adjectives make it even better. Unintentionally implying pajeets are smarter than whoever saw that scene and didn't get it.
How is it wrong though? To me the perception of this scene ITT is more indicative of autism than the scene itself which IS inherently walking on that edge by sheer concept alone, that being the two characters it involves.
My fascination is with the fact that it filtered people, not whether the movie is "good" or "bad". I mean, does anyone even give a shit if it's good or bad? It came out ages ago.
Elaborate. > Not the ending.
I thought killing Superman so early was a dumb decision. Really, there are lots of poorly thought out decisions in the film.
But I'm specifically arguing in favor of the Martha scene.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
my opinion is that if you have tens of millions of dollars and you sit down to write a script where Batman and Superman fight, and the climax of their fight is "same mom name", stop writing and have a nice day before you can do any more damage to the collective creative works of humanity.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Lmao why do moms upset you so much?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Batman discovering superman's humanity by finding out about his mum is not a bad plot point on its face. But it was executed in maybe the laziest, stupidest and nonsensical way.
Here, Zack. This is all you had to do, homosexual. >Thomas Wayne saying "Martha, you can't die... Martha... can't..." in the intro >Superman saying "Martha... Kent..."
Get it? Because it sounds the same. Holy fricking shit, was it that hard?
>It is over grandpa, now you die >s-save Martha >why did you say that name?? >its his mother name!! >Paul throws away the dagger >I consider you a nonhuman, but my mom is martha too, this totally got me
The defense I've seen Snydergays give is that line makes Batman realize what he perceived as an alien threat is just as human as everyone else. Of course the problem with that dumbass logic is that this is a Batman who is supposed to already be broken by having fought monstrous humans of his own rogues gallery and has lost his loved ones to them.
Superman revealing his humanity should further reinforce Batman's desire to kill him as he has seen more than most how corruptible humans are and how badly they can turn. He would be thinking: "What if Joker had the power to wipe out humanity? What if Two-face flipping a coin could mean wiping out cities? What if Riddler wasn't limited to just trying to outwit people?" etc etc.
It's difference because losing Martha was the traumatic catalyst that led Bruce to becoming who he is, along with losing his father. Him being taken aback makes sense because his entire obsessive pathology on stopping crime centers around.. Martha.
Sure, he could be taken aback for a moment and pause for a second before shoving that spear into Superman's chest, doing it for Martha, and every other innocent mother, father, brother, sister and child out there. Each traumatic event for Bruce, as depicted in the film, shows that it has escalated his methods for stopping crime into full blown killing without mercy or consideration.
Yes, he goes onto keep killing anyone he deems a criminal or threat to others until stopped. Because he's a man of incredible discipline, determination and purpose who has been broken by trauma again and again. He would not be swayed by someone's mother sharing a name with his own mother, let alone them revealing their humanity, not if he has fallen like the film sets him up to having done so.
>Its over Thanos, I told you that you will die >you should have saved my Martha >why did you say that name? >its my moms name >Thor throws away the axe >I consider you a nonhumam, but my mom is martha too, this totally got me
Thanos also killed multiple people and had a plan to erase half the universe. Superman didn't and had carte blanche to be given the benefit of the doubt that MAYBE he isn't bad after all. No such thing with Thanos.
Plus, Batman wasn't justified in wanting to kill Superman, it was him being paranoid.
Lol i always thought he meant he could time travel and would take Batman back to save Martha Wayne. Lol
I didn't even know Superman mum was called Martha I thought she was Louis.
The time travel aspect is still a better idea tho lol
The biggest tragedy of cinema is that the wonderful cast of MoS and BvS was made by this homosexual. Imagine what could WB and DC achieve with a normal p erson and not this lunatic
>Superhuman jerk probably did some psychic trickery on me earlier and learned my dead mother's name to manipulate me >definitely shanking this homosexual
Imagine being Cavill and Affleck as you read the script then later trying to act this scene out. They were surely like "holy shit why did I sign for this"and filmed it with utter disgust.
a civilian gets into trouble and supes abandons the fight to go save it and while doing so lets his guard down but bats doesnt go for the death stroke and lets superman save the person. took longer to type out than to think up and has no moronic out of left field mention of mothers names in the middle of a life and death fight.
But Supeman could merely be LARPing that he's saving another person, to fool Batman into thinking he's being a hero. In this instance Superman is at Batman's total mercy and is a second away from being killed so he selflessly asks him to at least save Martha, not even knowing Batman's mother's name is Martha.
That's when it all clicks in Batman's head that this potentially dangerous alien is actually closer to himself than he thought and that despite him posing a risk, he could at least save him from the same trauma Batman experienced.
No. Youre trying to mental gymnastic way to make the scene not moronic. Its impossible. In a way that you might understand: major "zoomie explaining 'what is a woman'" energy from you.
The entire concept. "save my mommy, oh yeah she has the same name as yours, isnt that a funny coincidence, lets be friends now". There is no universe or situation where that isnt moronic. Its like it was written by a 6 year old.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Sociopathic take
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
It's actually really simple. Superman is a potential threat. "Sus", to use zoomer lingo. Over the course of the film he's less and less sus, until it becomes clear to Batman that he misjudged him and that he's becoming what he hates most.
Batman is simply paranoid. It's a part of his character. That's why he creates all those plans to take down the Justice League if they turn to evil.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Now explain what a woman is without using the word woman.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
You got filtered by the guy who made the piece of shit film called Rebel Moon. That's more important.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>you saw how moronic and poorly written something is, so you were filtered
Why do people use terms they dont know the meaning of? Snyder, is that you?
>It is over x-men, now you die, sorry but if there is 1% chance you guys turn against us we need to genocide you all >b-but our moms name is martha >holy shit my architect was martha too, this totally gets me
This comparison makes no sense for similar reasons to the Thanos comparison
Thanos also killed multiple people and had a plan to erase half the universe. Superman didn't and had carte blanche to be given the benefit of the doubt that MAYBE he isn't bad after all. No such thing with Thanos.
Plus, Batman wasn't justified in wanting to kill Superman, it was him being paranoid.
You got filtered by the creator of such classics as.. Sucker Punch.
Out of all the things to complain about in BvS, I don't get the issue with the Martha scene.
Could a scene with a similar stipulation be written better? Maybe. But at its core it still makes sense. It being illogical is what could make it bad.
People laughed at this scene when I saw the film in a cinema. I did too.
Then again, the whole film felt like a grimdark parody of Nolan's Batman films
Women surely dont care if you defend a snyder films terrible writing. So your bargging about getting laid is clearly coming from men. homosexualry isnt sex, only penis in vegana is sex. Cope homosexual incel.
>attempts to fit in
Oh, its just a redditgay who thinks he can appeal to herd mentality to win an argument on Cinemaphile of all places. Protip for you homosexual, being a free speech website means nobody is trying to agree with each other because we arent afraid of being downvoted or hecking banned.
How does he know about Superman's mother or what her name was?
He doesn't, that's why he was rattled. He thinks Superman knows he's Bruce Wayne. Then Lois Lane show up and explains Superman's mother is named Martha.
>h-he said said a woman's name in a context that isn't even applicable to Martha, my dead mother because my dead mother is dead >damnation, I've been found out! foiled again!
Huh?
yes. Batman cares about his secret identity since its mean to protect people he cares about. If Superman knows it, people like Alfred could be in danger.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
You mean Alfred?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Doesn't exactly take a super duper genius detective to figure out that "you're letting him kill Martha" doesn't refer to an already dead Martha.
A super duper genius detective would then have been able to use this information to deduce that Suparsaar hasn't got a clue who Baatsaar is and is talking about another Martha.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Yes, problem is that Batman has absurd levels of PTSD regarding his parents deaths. He starts having flashbacks when Superman says Martha and snaps out of the cold rational calculating mindset that's gotten him to the point where he's basically won against Superman. This is just what happens in the scene. Whether it makes sense that he then spares Superman over their mother's having the same names is different issue of course.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Whether it makes sense that he then spares Superman over their mother's having the same names is different issue of course.
It does make sense because Batman's plan is to pre-emptively kill Superman and thus avoid any potential threats. But he understands the error of his ways and obviously ends up making the right choice since Superman is also who largely saves their asses in the next film.
Why would Superman being humanized in the eyes of Batman do anything to deter him from killing him? Batman is already killing humans after having seen how bad they can go from years of dealing with his rogue's gallery. Now there is a being with the power to wipe out humanity, realizing that being is more human than first assumed does nothing to dispel that threat
Because Superman has the benefit of the doubt that regular goons and killers don't have.
Batman KNOWS Superman could be a force for good and Clark has proven as much. He simply doesn't want to take any risks. Until his grief over his dead mother overrides his "logical" mind, which isn't uncommon for a human. Most of our decisions are actually taken on emotion.
Most of our decisions are indeed based on emotion. And Bruce here is a broken traumatized man who has strayed from his original principled path. He doesn't just magically get healed because Superman gets humanized.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>And Bruce here is a broken traumatized man who has strayed from his original principled path
True. >He doesn't just magically get healed because Superman gets humanized.
Why not? That's like saying a junkie can't become clean.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Why not? That's like saying a junkie can't become clean.
They can, but not overnight because they found out someone else had a mother who shares a name with their own mother. It's a long process, usually requiring hitting rock bottom. Killing Superman could have been Bruce's rock bottom if handled right.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>but not overnight
It can happen overnight actually. >Killing Superman could have been Bruce's rock bottom if handled right.
What happened to Bruce is that he realized he was about to kill HIMSELF by becoming what he hates most.
He was going to murder an innocent man and cause him the same trauma that he himself experienced. At that moment the "potential threat of Superman" took a back seat and Bruce's conscience and morals prevailed. In saving Superman he was saving Batman.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
But he was already killing without consideration or mercy. This isn't a Batman about to go over the edge, it's a Batman that already has. And Superman wasn't an innocent man to Batman either, not as setup in this universe.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>But he was already killing without consideration or mercy
He was killing criminals. >And Superman wasn't an innocent man to Batman either, not as setup in this universe.
He wasn't as guilty as people who were killing civilians on purpose. The issue with Superman, going off Batman's own admission, is that if there's even a 1% chance he'll "go bad", that's too much of a risk. But he obviously refreshed his stance.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Right, he refreshed his stance because Superman is no longer just an alien menace, now he is humanized. Not like Batman has ever seen humans doing terrible things, being willfully as evil as possible doing everything they can to exact as much pain and suffering onto others as they can. Oh wait......
And Batman didn't care about them being criminals, the grunts he kills during the chase for the kryptonite wouldn't know what was inside and wouldn't have criminal records, those would be ex-military working for a private security firm. They were in the way so he moved them down.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Not like Batman has ever seen humans doing terrible things, being willfully as evil as possible
Superman hasn't been like that. He is merely a potential threat. A ticking time bomb. But Batman realizes that he isn't as bad as he seems.
End scene.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Which does nothing to solve the initial problem, Superman has the power to wipe out humanity if he goes bad, and Batman is so broken he no longer sees the good in people. There's no good reason, emotionally or logically, why he would suddenly see the good in this Superman. Not after what this film, and Man of Steel showed of him, or more accurately haven't shown.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Which does nothing to solve the initial problem
But it does. Superman ends up sacrificing his own life to save humanity in the same film. >and Batman is so broken he no longer sees the good in people
He heals.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>But it does. Superman ends up sacrificing his own life to save humanity in the same film.
No it doesn't. First off, it's not the emergence of Doomsday that stops Batman from killing Superman, that happens after, it's Lois running in exclaiming "it's his mother's name", and Batman "heals" because he just magically does the moment 'Martha' is mentioned according to the defenders of the film.
It would have worked a whole lot better if Doomsday emerges before Batman can finish off Superman, Wonder-woman intervenes because she realizes it's going to take all 3 of them to stop Doomsday, maybe throw in some stupid line from Batman about this not being over, and then have the Doomsday fight play out as it does with Superman making the ultimate sacrifice.
That example, along with Wonder-woman can then drag Bruce out of the broken state he is in.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
It literally did though. Batman not killing Superman pays off.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
It does, but Batman doesn't spare Superman so Superman can help with Doomsday so you can't justify his decision to spare him with that. The whole scene is as stupid as if Batman turned to the camera with a big smile and says: "lol just a joke. In about 30minutes we need Superman to go kill this big CGI monster for us"
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Yeah but I wasn't implying that's the reason he saved him. He saved him because he realized that despite being a potential threat, he's ultimately not as "alien" as he thought, and that he couldn't allow himself to put him through the same trauma just because Superman could possibly, one day, maybe, under bad circumstances do something bad.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Put him through what trauma, the trauma of losing his mother? Guess what, if he kills Clark before Martha is dead, Clark isn't losing his mother, his mother is losing her adopted son. Batman can still go save Martha after killing Superman if he is so inclined.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Also, again, humanizing Superman would do nothing to prevent Batman from killing him since Batman is already killing other humans as he has fought horrible human monsters his entire time as Batman. Which broke him.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Yes it would. Because as you mentioned in your very own post, Batman was killing "horrible human monsters" and not just any random people. He wouldn't kill some Mr. Olympia simply for being stronger than him. (presumably at least, maybe Batman really IS that insecure)
Superman had NOT shown himself to be a monster. Just a potential threat. But Batman got over that idea. How? By realizing they have more in common than he assumed and that Superman is closer to humans than it seems. And just to be clear, this is stock plot that a kid would probably understand.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Better kill cyborg since he is a literally alien death machine and batman knows it.
Why? He's got Superman in a completely unwinnable position. Literally just interrogate Superman and find out what he knows, then kill him like planned.
Imagine still defending Snyder after Rebel Moon. He was already a proven hack from the DCEU but at least fanboys could say he was undermined by Warner Bros or something. With the Rebel Moon movies he's gotten a blank check, total creative control, and they're fricking awful. He has no excuses left. The man is simply not a good filmmaker.
All of which is irrelevant as it pertains to the aspects of BvS that are criticized most frequently, A.K.A. the Martha scene. I fail to understand the flaws here. Superman gets humanized in Batman's eyes and he is reminded of why he can't allow his mother to die even if Superman poses a "potential" risk to humanity, key word being potential. Superman isn't Zod. He doesn't have a conscious desire to destroy humanity.
Why would Superman being humanized in the eyes of Batman do anything to deter him from killing him? Batman is already killing humans after having seen how bad they can go from years of dealing with his rogue's gallery. Now there is a being with the power to wipe out humanity, realizing that being is more human than first assumed does nothing to dispel that threat
He honestly totally would because he now exploits the shit out of the Snydercut meme.
Also by his own words, the extended version is actually its own thing so they are two separate entities and should be criticised separately
>With the Rebel Moon movies he's gotten a blank check, total creative control, and they're fricking awful.
The blank check versions haven't been released yet dummy only the Netflix mandated PG-13 cuts. Why are Snyder haters always so disingenuous and bad faith?
>nooo that wasn't my Real Vision™ you have to wait for the special uncut versions!
How many times are you going to fall for this crap?
Except all of his directors cuts are indeed better than their theatrical counterparts. In this case it's not even just an extended version, there's an hours worth of extra footage and apparently the tone is entirely different. I haven't watched the Netflix cuts and never will because I know those are just the contractual obligations so that he could release his actual vision.
Well yeah am I not supposed to take him at his word? That's why I didn't waste my time with the Pg-13 versions because I actually listen to what directors have to say about their own movies that I'm interested in.
>those are just the contractual obligations so that he could release his actual vision
Snyder produced, wrote, filmed, and directed those versions, and oversaw editing. And they are extreme shit. Don't pretend it was a hackjob by Netflix, it was a hackjob by Snyder because Snyder is a hack.
>Snyder produced, wrote, filmed, and directed those versions, and oversaw editing. And they are extreme shit. Don't pretend it was a hackjob by Netflix
Do you seriously not understand the deal he made? He edited those version according to the notes that Netflix gave him and pretty much gave in to all their demands because he knew he would be getting his unencumbered R-rated cuts down the line which is the script he originally wrote. The PG-13 versions that have been released are just hacked down sanitized versions of that script by design.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
There is nothing. “R-rated,” that could be added to those movies to make them anything but giant piles of shit. Same with suckerpunch.
>With the Rebel Moon movies he's gotten a blank check, total creative control, and they're fricking awful.
The blank check versions haven't been released yet dummy only the Netflix mandated PG-13 cuts. Why are Snyder haters always so disingenuous and bad faith?
I like Zack, but he really needs to hire a PR person. People often forget he's dyslexic and has trouble articulating his words without sounding moronic if taken at literal face value.
It's not his fault audiences are moronic. Zack Snyder is a Michael Bay level director who is still too smart for the average capeshit audience who can't even understand simple scenes like Martha.
Why is a moron who cant even read being put incharge of anything? Shouldnt he have a job more suited to his skills? Like digging a ditch or working fast food?
What if she was called, I don't know, Anika? Would THISSONOFABITCHBROUGHTTHESOUNDOFABITCHTOUS have his little flashback about his mom or would he just straight murder superman because he wouldn't have any attachment to that name?
As usual fans can come up with better explanations than Snyder himself:
In my headcanon, it's established (in the ultimate cut) that Clark was investigating and keeping tabs on Bruce (and probably his family history). So, it makes perfect sense that Clark, helpless, would resort to playing mind games on Bruce by calling out his mother's name to snap him out of his blood rage.
They actually can't if this thread is any indication. That's what saves Snyders' work from being as bad as it is. The "fans" propose even dumber scenes. So it's better to just shitpost like this guy because at least it makes for more entertaining discussions
Don't be stupid. Lots of people like to salute Roman style. It's not just fascists who throw up the old ave Caesar. Nazis do it too. And him doing the Roman salute doesn't necessarily mean he is a nazi or a fascist. He might just really hate the israelites.
Would have been impactful if he had said, "save my mother". "Save Martha" just doesn't sound right, and I get what he was trying to do and he almost got there but he was moronic about it. Batman sees Superman as an alien threat, as the enemy and as the only one that has the chance to stop him. When Superman is defeated, and Batman stands over him pleading him to save his mother. It would have shook Batman in to seeing him as more than just some alien menace. You didn't need to do the correlation of their mothers having the same name, you wouldn't have needed to have Clark moments before dead pleading him to "save Martha", saying "please save my mother" would have been more human and impactful. That's the problem, Snyder can't think like a normal person with emotions and he made his Superman barely have any humanity.
>Would have been impactful if he had said, "save my mother". "Save Martha"
The name Martha is the common link between them. Batman's entire crusade against crime began when his parents were murdered. That name would have an emotional impact on him and override his rage.
Maybe Superman could've said "save my mother, Martha", but the name itself is still an integral part of it. > It would have shook Batman in to seeing him as more than just some alien menace
It did. That's exactly what happens in the movie. On top of Batman realizing he's becoming Joe Chill without realizing it.
The name is irrelevant. At the core, it is a man pleading for his mother's life. That is the link between them. They both have mothers, they were both born to this world and he isn't a soulless monster as Bruce thought. Having him call her Martha and then Snyder telling us that the reason he stopped is because his dead mother has the same name? Just reeks of cope and trying to give some type of inside information to make the scene seem more deep. Yet another problem that Snyder has, the only way he knows how to add depth to anything is by giving derivative hints to other media or lesser known information about a character. The scene would have been better if both character's mothers had a different name because then Snyder wouldn't have needed to add his sense of "depth" in to the scene.
>The name is irrelevant
It's very much relevant because that was his own mother's name. Superman is bringing up Martha, not just "any mother". It triggers Batman's own trauma and PTSD. >and then Snyder telling us that the reason he stopped is because his dead mother has the same name?
He was taken aback by the name and he asked Superman why he mentioned it. Then Lois appeared and explained it's his mother's name. > The scene would have been better if
I'll entertain you on how the scene would've actually been better. If Superman somehow saved Bruce's mother. That would drive home the point that he's a good person. Except he can't because Batman's mother is dead, as are most of the people he cares about.
This was the next best thing.
Everyone understood the concept. The execution was just shit. All he had to do was say "save my mom." It immediately humanises him to Batman by showing that even this alien monster is just a scared boy afraid to lose his parents like Bruce did. The name doesn't need to be said at all.
How does it feel to be zach snyder and know that your movie can only be discussed through bad faith arguing shit posts? That the only people praising you are doing it to have a laugh at people who like movies
Imagine if Superman had any lines to say to Batman in this moronic gay movie besides IF I WANTED IT YOU'D BE DEAD ALREADY and YOU'RE LETTING HIM KILL MARTHA
>life and death fight against an alien with world destroying power >HEY HE SAID MY DEAD MOMMYS NAME, WHY DID HE DO THAT???? >oh my god wait he has a mommy too?!? >HIS MOMMY HAD THE SAME NAME???!?!??!!!?!?! >we are now bffs, lets go fight the other alien
This is top tier writing to a synderfan and some how better than the dark knight returns version of this fight
>Zack Snyder explains the infamous Cranberries song choice >Well you see the audience doesn't know that the character we're seeing has been bitten by a zombie, they think he survived the nuking of Las Vegas to be the one heister who gets away with the loot at the end. But the song is subtly telling them that he's actually a zombie, because they keep saying zombie in the song, subtly foreshadowing the twist that's about to come when his bite is revealed.
chuds BTFO good sirs!
Honestly a big problem with the movie is that it's not enough of a zombie movie and it has literally zero heist elements beyond them having to crack a safe. I really thought I'd like it because Snyder did okay with Dawn of The Dead and I'm a sucker for any heist movie, but he managed to go full moron with it in like five different directions.
I still think the idea of a heist movie where they have to get into a casino and rob the vault without setting off any alarms because that will bring a horde of zombies could make for an exceedingly fun schlock heist movie. The mid-movie "oh shit our carefully planned idea won't work" thing could be that their escape route has been blocked by the zombies so now they have to set the alarm off to draw them away or they have no chance, causing the action finale.
Yeah, I liked Dawn a lot, and Army is nothing like it and is disappointing garbage. Good shlocky concept, but Bad cast, acting, story, everything. However, I will say that Army of the Dead is great when compared to Rebel Moon pt 1 and 2, they are even fricking worse.
I don't know about 300 but he 100% missed the point of Watchmen. Right from the start he gave the heroes actual super-strength, with old man Comedian punching through bricks instead of just being ambushed and thrown out a window and Rorschach using his grappling gun like Batman instead of having to slowly pull himself up the rope. It's like he read a completely different comic filled with actual superheroes instead of the one that keeps pointing out that the only real superhero is Manhattan and he stops caring because he's so above it all, while the regular people playing dress-up accomplish nothing because you can't save the world by punching people in a costume.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Right from the start he gave the heroes actual super-strength
Stylistic choice to make the fight scenes more visually captivating.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>nooo, completely ignoring a key tenet of the story is just a stylistic choice!!!
a zombie heist is just a stupid idea for a movie. Romero is dead, let his franchise rest with him. Make your own franchises if you need go make a zombie heist movie so badly instead of ruining a dead man's
the 5 minute intro of army of the dead is the movie I wanted to see.
that 5 minute montage was amazing. that's what the movie needed to be. the fall of las Vegas
it truly was an amazing 5 minutes or whatever, 10 minutes
Even in that intro you had truly moronic shit happening thanks to Snyder's writing, like the army air-dropping soldiers onto the strip. They may frick up sometimes but there'd be zero reason for them to try a stunt like that.
yeah but the zombie horde looked so amazing. I hate Snyder and I think he's moronic, but that zombie outbreak it's one of the greatest zombie scenes visually.
I don't care what people say. I love BVS, if only for the sheer madness of its existence. And also the sad fact it will probably never be made again.
This is a movie that by all rational logic should never have been made, but was, and was done with such a mad passion and commitment to its own ideas that you can't help but admire it even as it crashed and burned.
If this was another soulless capeshit product, it would have been forgotten after a few months. But people are still making wild theories and discussing it to this day.
It's one of the most auteur driven blockbusters ever made and we'll probably never see anything quite like it again certainly not in the superhero genre.
I watched the interview from OPs pic and Zack is absolutely right about focus groups.
You don't have to like his movies, but them existing is actually a vote against the woke, sanitised trash we keep getting each year from the major studios.
You're autistic as frick trying to nitpick the shit out of this scene and looking for problems that aren't there.
Why would he say " save my mom". Who the frick is his mom? How is Batman supposed to know who she is? Martha is more specific and he's already been hit by too many doses of Kryptonite and clearly can't afford too much specificity as is.
>It's not his biological mother.
Superman would slap the shit out of you for saying she's not his real mom.
Yeah but the question is WHO is his mother. It's Martha.
>How is Batman supposed to know who she is?
How the frick is Batman supposed to know who Martha is? There's literally no difference, except for the fact that hearing Clark call his mom by her first name is weird.
The question is not "who is his mother" you dumb c**t. Superman is just desperately pleading for Batman to save his mom. You NEVER refer to your mom by her first name in that context. How moronic are you?
How the frick is Batman supposed to know who Superman's mother is? You're making out Superman to be more moronic than he is. Martha is more specific. He couldn't say her last name but it's still better than "save my literal who mother"
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
How the frick is Batman supposed to know who Martha is?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Superman was trying to be more specific. Kind of hard when you're being doused in kryptonite and a moment away from getting killed.
He told him that "they're going to kill Martha". He didn't specify who "they" are either, due to the aforementioned reasons.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Superman wasn't staggered to the point where he'd be that inadequate to say "my mom". >Kind of hard when you're being doused in kryptonite and a moment away from getting killed.
So which is it pajeet?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Lois Lane specified its his mother. Superman wasn't even in a condition to do so at that point. >Superman wasn't staggered to the point where he'd be that inadequate to say "my mom".
Make up your mind.
Why does it have to be one extreme or the other? He's adequate enough to say Martha but not specify Martha Kent.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>this is the level of intellect required to think Zack Snyder is a good filmmaker
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
It's not about good or bad filmmaking, it's about whether the scene makes sense or not and it does.
You're the one artistically obsessed with Snyder and in need of nitpicking scenes that are otherwise not complex.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
It clearly does not. As proven by the fact that you can't even decide on how fricked up Superman was lol. You moronic little pajeet.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
He was very clearly fricked up. He wasn't drunk.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>He was so fricked up that he would say "Martha" but not "Martha Kent" but also wouldn't say "my mom" because he wasn't THAT fricked up, even though by my own admission he was seconds away from death and doused in kryptonite
So tell me this. How much more fricked up would a person have to be to say "my mom" rather than the totally alien and absurd "call my mother by her first name" approach?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
It's like asking a person who just got the shit beat out of him to list you his home address, social security number and mother's maiden's name.
You'll get some info but not all of it.
Forget all of the specificity though, the bottom line really is that it's not hard to understand the scene if you watch it.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
You didn't do as I asked. I'll repeat the question. Hopefully you'll be able to understand it the second time.
How much more fricked up would a person have to be to say "my mom" rather than the totally alien and absurd "call my mother by her first name" approach?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
It's a dumb question.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
I accept your concession.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
May as well ask me some other random factoid. It will bring absolutely nothing to the discussion.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Superman was too fricked up to say "Martha Kent" but not fricked up enough to say "my mom" >What level of fricked up would be required to say "my mom"? >THAT'S IRRELEVANT
rajesh, please end your life.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
You're asking autistic questions that suggest you don't understand simple scenes. Why the frick would I possibly want to answer that?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Rajesh, you are very very stupid.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
I'm not the one who got filtered by a scene in a PG-13 capeshit movie albeit.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
See:
Have you ever called your mother by her first name?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
SAVE JESSICA
?
batman just stabs him?
SAVE MOM
batman: you have a mom? I'm sorry
SAVE HILLARY
batman: Hillary Clinton? wtf?
SAVE MICHELLE
batman: who the frick is Michelle
SAVE MOM
oh Superman has a mom?
fricking retarted
Can't you put two and two together and consider than maybe Clark doesn't want it to be made evident that it's his mother? That it could be a risk letting Batman know that? But that Martha (Kent) could still be saved?
And that he would omit Kent because he had gotten his ass kicked and whatever he said was all he could? That being, "They" are going to kill "Martha".
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>got so desperate he's come up with a fifth different explanation for the moronic writing
lol
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Because you can't understand a scene that a 13 year old was legally allowed to watch in a movie theater. Have you tried explaining complex things to a child so that it could better understand?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
You cant even keep consistent within your own arguments anymore pajeet lol.
Again, Martha is more specific than "my mom". Also [...]
"Martha" is not more specific than "my mom". "My mom" refers to a single individual. It can ONLY refer to a single individual. "Martha" refers to hundreds of thousands of individuals.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Maybe if Superman wasn't busy being half-dead he'd have explained that, anon.
[...]
Can't you put two and two together and consider than maybe Clark doesn't want it to be made evident that it's his mother? That it could be a risk letting Batman know that? But that Martha (Kent) could still be saved?
And that he would omit Kent because he had gotten his ass kicked and whatever he said was all he could? That being, "They" are going to kill "Martha".
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Neither of those posts address anything in my post, pajeet. You're really struggling here.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
who is Martha
how old is Martha
how many Marthas are there in gotham or Smallville
is she in Smallville? is she in metropolis?
WHICH MARTHA ?
WHAT CITY
WTF
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Maybe if Superman wasn't busy being half-dead he'd have explained that, anon.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
SAVE JESSICA
?
batman just stabs him?
SAVE MOM
batman: you have a mom? I'm sorry
SAVE HILLARY
batman: Hillary Clinton? wtf?
SAVE MICHELLE
batman: who the frick is Michelle
SAVE MOM
oh Superman has a mom?
fricking retarted
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
It's more specific than "save my mom". Superman wasn't staggered to the point where he'd be that inadequate to say "my mom".
It doesn't matter if Batman knows who she is. All that matters for this scene is that Batman sees Superman being human. He sees this god crumbling into a little boy scared for his parents lives, like Bruce was once upon a time. Why would Batman know who "Martha" is? He wouldn't. He specifically asks for clarification because it's so vague.
>Martha is more specific
So specific that Batman has to screech "WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME" in response because that name is so very non-specific that it makes Batman think Superman is referring to HIS mother and not Supe's own. lol you mong
It's more specific than "save my mom". Superman wasn't staggered to the point where he'd be that inadequate to say "my mom".
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>It's more specific than "save my mom".
No, it really isn't. Unless he gives Batman more info he won't be able to find out anything with just the name Martha, same as if he'd said mom. The only difference is that in his staggered and vulnerable state there'd be zero chance that the boyscout in blue would refer to his mom by her first name, because it would be completely alien to him.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
[...]
The situation was such that he couldn't say "Martha Kent" because he was in a rough shape. It's still more specific than "my mom". Not to mention it's also possible that Superman didn't want to expose Martha is his mother anyway, out of fear that Batman might cause harm to her. He just pleads for Martha to be saved. Lois Lane specified its his mother. Superman wasn't even in a condition to do so at that point.
who the frick is Martha? batman doesn't know that either. is that his girlfriend? .
saying matha doesn't even imply that it's referring to his mom
is Martha his wife? his daughter?
is batman supposed to kill Superman and then do a background check on every Martha is the area?
fricking moronic stupid shit
how old is Martha? is it a teen? is it Batman's she?
How the frick is Batman supposed to know who Martha is?
The situation was such that he couldn't say "Martha Kent" because he was in a rough shape. It's still more specific than "my mom". Not to mention it's also possible that Superman didn't want to expose Martha is his mother anyway, out of fear that Batman might cause harm to her. He just pleads for Martha to be saved. Lois Lane specified its his mother. Superman wasn't even in a condition to do so at that point.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Lois Lane specified its his mother. Superman wasn't even in a condition to do so at that point. >Superman wasn't staggered to the point where he'd be that inadequate to say "my mom".
Make up your mind.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>It's still more specific than "my mom".
No, it isn't. Batman won't be able to find out shit with just the name Martha to go on. He doesn't even know her approximate age, like he would have if he'd said mom. If he'd said "save my mom" then Lois could have explained who his mom was and Batman would have been surprised to find out he's got a mom that needs saving. All of this would have flowed way more naturally than having Clark use his mom's first name and Batman thinking he's talking about HIS mom and freaking out.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>No, it isn't
It is. What cuts off the specificity is the fact that he didn't elaborate on a last name. Maybe because he was doused in kryptonite, staggered and was seconds away from being killed. > If he'd said "save my mom" then Lois could have explained who his mom was
She explained it anyway.
And again, the name is what caused Batman to reflect on what he's doing and triggered his PTSD. It's why he was so perplexed this alien would say what he did. And ultimately what bought him enough time to not get killed.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>And again, the name is what caused Batman to reflect on what he's doing and triggered his PTSD.
Which is dogshit writing. All that stopped Batman from killing Superman is Superman weirdly calling out his mom's name and Batman being triggered by the colossal coincidence that their moms both had the same name. Instead of Batman just hesitating when he hears this alien threat call out for him to save his mom like a normal scared man would.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
His parents' death is what made him become Batman. >Instead of Batman just hesitating
He hesitated anyway and then Lois chimed in and explained everything.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>His parents' death is what made him become Batman.
Yes, which is why he'd react when the alien is calling out to him to save his mom. Because he lost his own mom. How did you think you were making a counter argument here?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
He's Indian. He literally doesn't understand what you're saying.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Do Indians call their moms by their first names? That would explain a lot.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
He might be Indian but the people arguing with him are black. You can tell by the IQ being displayed and the fact that they had no mothers.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Have you ever called your mother by her first name?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Indian tries to bite back by randomly calling people black >gets things backwards and thinks the stereotype is that black people don't have mothers
lmao
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
The stereotype applies to both actually.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
No it fricking doesn't? The stereotype is 100% that the fathers run off and the mothers end up rasing multiple kids that each have a different baby daddy. That's always been the stereotype.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
It's applicable, trust me
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
having a real Indian on Cinemaphile arguing about Zack Snyder is really like a celebrity sighting lol
like seeing Leonardo DiCaprio in the airport lol.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>in the airport
Bold move to assume I'm the Indian, ESL, you can't even type properly.
It's not about whether Snyder is a good filmmaker or not. I think he's the equivalent of a "commercial guy". Most capeshit directors are. But I find it funny how you got filtered by a capeshit movie.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Are you under the impression there's anything grammatically wrong with the phrase "in the airport"? lmao rajesh you're humiliating yourself here.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
It's AT the airport, Amir. And you got filtered by a scene that your fellow pajeets apparently had 0 issue deciphering. Because it's a blockbuster that a 13 year old could legally walk into, watch and understand.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>it's "at the airport"
It can be either, pajeet lol. The airport is a physical building that you can be inside of, you moron. How do you pajeets even make it through the day? lmao
Watch me bring it back to black people again in my next post.
[...]
I could explain to you how 2+2 equals 4 and you'd use Terryology to tell me how that's wrong. That's the level of discourse we're at right now.
You are mentally disabled, rajesh.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>cope
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
I accept your concession (again). Imagine thinking "in the airport" is wrong lmao
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
At is the right preposition to use with airport. "In" is suspect. If you weren't ESL you would've immediately went with "at".
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Absolutely, unequivocally incorrect. "At the airport" refers to the location. "In the airport" refers to the building itself. You are not educated enough to have this discussion, Pajeet.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Yeah, nah. At the airport is the correct way to say it.
>google "at the airport" to try to explain to pajeet how it works >the first link is a pajeet on quora having it explained to him by other pajeets
kek
>pajeets are smarter than me
Not a flex tbh.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>pajeet absolutely seething after embarrassing himself for the tenth time this thread
kek. tell me more about pajeet being an adjective lmao
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Slurs can be used as attributive nouns or adjectives.
More than anything, it's not argument. And if we assume pajeets are moronic than my homie you're the King of India.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
then*
see, I have slip ups too 🙂
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>"pajeet" can be an adjective
lmao
>And if we assume pajeets are moronic than my homie you're the King of India. >than >THAN >mfw
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
It can. If you had a grasp on the English language you'd know that.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
You're the one trying to make counter arguments to a perfectly logical turn of events.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>perfectly logical
Superman shouldn't be running on logic at that point, just as Batman isn't running on logic. He's close to death and so scared farm boy Clark should just be calling out for his mom, not calling out for Martha like a sterile alien functioning on only logic, you autistic frick.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>sterile >autistic
You inadvertently conjured up accurate adjectives to be associated with your posts and logic. Well done.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Yeah man there's nothing sterile or autistic about calling your mom by her first name. No, it's totally the people who call them mom who are weirdo autistics.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Again, Martha is more specific than "my mom". Also
[...]
Can't you put two and two together and consider than maybe Clark doesn't want it to be made evident that it's his mother? That it could be a risk letting Batman know that? But that Martha (Kent) could still be saved?
And that he would omit Kent because he had gotten his ass kicked and whatever he said was all he could? That being, "They" are going to kill "Martha".
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
is Martha 18
is she 28
is she in Gotham?
is she in Metropolis
it's so fricking stupid.
batman doesn't even know what city to check.
moronic
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>ignores everything and asks the same questions over and over
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
If I was Batman in that moment then I'd think the alien freak I'm scared of can read minds or somehow found out about my history and is mocking me by calling out my mom's name and telling me I should have saved her.
When asked in interview why Lex knew who Superman was Snyder's response was to ask 'well why wouldn't he know?'. Which is a pretty logical explanation really. But the flip side of course is why didn't Bruce know? I don't think there's a logical answer to that really.
in bvs batman doesn't even know Supermans secret identity or anything. he doesn't know who he is
Martha doesn't imply it's supermans mother
if anything I would think Superman is mentioning his human girlfriend.
save Martha to me would mean " save my girlfriend"
>When asked in interview why Lex knew who Superman was Snyder's response was to ask 'well why wouldn't he know?'. Which is a pretty logical explanation really.
Not really. Why would Lex even believe Superman had parents on Earth? He sees Superman as this otherworldly threat so why the frick would he spend any resources on trying to figure out his flesh and blood parents living on Earth, instead of assuming he's without parents entirely or that they live on another planet?
It's like asking a person who just got the shit beat out of him to list you his home address, social security number and mother's maiden's name.
You'll get some info but not all of it.
Forget all of the specificity though, the bottom line really is that it's not hard to understand the scene if you watch it.
>dude you're not getting the scene
We all understand what the scene is trying to do, man, we're just calling it moronic because it was shitty writing.
This fight was stupid anyway and made no sense. Superman should have just stayed in the sky and talked to Batman. The fight got stupid when Superman flew down to get into Batman's face. Superman superman wa also not thinking at all during the fight. It's kinda funny how he just turns into a moron and takes all this easily avoidable Krytonite weapons. I get getting tagged by the first one. But after that Superman should have taken the fight to a more open area or retreated.
Why didn't they just remake the animated justice league movies in live action. They were actually kino and in live action normies would like it.
Then they could have done the 10/10 flashpoint movie instead of the shit they did....
also yes i know live action adaptations are always shit. But why? Why cant they just take something good and put it to film with some real money? Why do have to frick everything up so badly?
I want you to know that was a shitpost specifically in response the post directly above it and you're so fricking stupid that you thought someone was finally supporting you lmao
you outed yourself as the real pajeet because you replied after the post
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
so you agree with the real pajeet? what does that make you then?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
something you'll never be (white)
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Post a picture of your eyes and if they're blue I'll write a three page essay about how Synder is a genius.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>dox yourself
nah
+ they're green
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>a photo of your eyes is doxxing
lol pajeet doesn't even know what doxxing is
Martha makes all the difference as a soundbite. "My mother" in that framing, in that context, would be stupid and the scene wouldn't work.
Now, did the scene even need to have the mother stipulation in the first place? Maybe not. That's a whole other debate in itself. But it doesn't warrant the amount of, "fricking turbo sperg autist" nitpicking it got. For Christ's sake, it's a capeshit movie.
Speaking of which, I'm done debating a capeshit movie's merits.
>I'm done
I bet you reply to this post, pajeet. especially given that you're wrong about it being more human to say your mother's first name instead of just "my mom"
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
nice try glowie
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
We've been doing the equivalent of arguing about the writing in a Michael Bay movie. It's silly. So yes, I'm done. Enjoy getting filtered by low level filmmakers, which by the way Snyder very much is. He is an MTV music video director. He is not the least bit complex, profound or impressive. And you managed to completely misunderstand a scene in his movie only because there was a meme on how silly it was when in reality it was neither silly or pretentious or dishonest. It's the most honest scene in the movie.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>"I'm done!" >replies again
kek
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Enjoy getting filtered
There's that word again. Calling shitty writing shitty and autistic does not mean that you've somehow missed the point of the scene because it was too intellectually demanding. The scene was just shitty.
Considering the paranoid maniac in the bat costume's entire lifestyle was altered due to Martha dying, it's not that far fetched tbh. He wants to avoid more Marthas out there kicking the ole bucket.
Objectively speaking, anti-Snyder cultists are more autistic and deranged. To such an extent that they make Snyder appear better than he is. He IS NOT good. But the nitpicking of that scene exposes militant Snyder haters as genuinely and unironically low IQ.
It's not bait. The Snyder hate is understandable on one level, or more so the criticism people have for his movies. But the sheer obsession of it and the fact that anti-Snyder posters are always super hostile, like making fun of his dead daughter and shit like that, is weird.
There has to be a bigger reason for it that simply escapes me.
the martha scene makes perfect sense, people just apply too much real-world logic and fail to get that batman is mentally ill
in a comic book it would make sense
The Martha bit wasnt even the worst shit in this movie lol. Is he going to explain why Mark Zuckerberg lex luthor was actually good and not just him loving the social network.
americans didn't understand that batman and superman's mothers have the same name?
only indians understand snyder
To be fair you need a firm grounding in the Upanishads, mastery of Sanskrit, and to never even have touched a toilet in your entire life to understand Snyder.
Dude doesn't even understand what the problem is
what's the problem?
>who would call their mother by their first name in that situation?
>the batman that the preceding two hours of the film established would've responded "there are more of you alien scum?" and would've impaled superman's frontal lobe with renewed vigor
>batman killed a bunch of people without asking their mothers names and does not turn himself into the authorities when he has his "murder bad" revelation
that the line is fricking weird, Superman should have said something more sensical like "I'm sorry Martha" or "I can't die here, I must save Martha", both of these are dogshit but asking the man who's killing him to save a random woman he doesn't know without any context and by only referring her by first name is nonsensical. I like the movie overall and I understand the point of the scene, it's just the line itself is oddly written and bizarre and pretty much any alternative would have been better
>"I'm sorry Martha" or "I can't die here, I must save Martha",
Or "Zanzibart... forgive me"
>Superman should have said something more sensical like "I'm sorry Martha" or "I can't die here, I must save Martha"
I love it when people come up with something even worse than the original thing as an improvement.
Clark calling his mom Martha. That shit is alien as frick and out of character. If he'd said "Mom... I have to save her..." then it would have been in character for Clark AND Batman could have had a "wait, you've got a mom? And she's in danger?" moment, making him see Superman as human instead of otherworldly just as Snyder intended. As it is why wouldn't he just think the alien freak found out who he is and is trying to mock him by calling out his mom's name?
I’m never simultaneously enjoyed and cringed so hard at a director like Zach Snyder.
>like
>like
>like
this homosexual talks like a 20 year old roastie
This is how he sounded on the Watchmen commentary. Probably even earlier than that, but I'm not gonna waste my tame to research this. So yes, he was always a fricking moron.
I do this too sometimes because it's a homosexualy Californian thing. I hate it whenever I catch myself doing it.
>dey boff be having a mutha
>deyse muthas be having da saem naem
>da holy sponge of stephaton
Wow!.. Anti-Snyder sirs.... maybe we were incorrectful about him?
If a director has to explain a scene, he is a mediocre director
What if they just refuse to explain a scene like based lynch
No.
yeah no it's still shit
Eat up Martha
Zack is actually too dumb to understand being criticized
hows those Rebel Moon movies
>He has the power to wipe out the entire human race, and if we believe there’s even a one percent chance that he is our enemy we have to take it as an absolute certainty… and we have to destroy him.
>Wait, he has a mom? Never mind it's a all good
Snyder is the dumbest man working in Hollywood lol
It's the biggest commonality a human can have with an alien. Shortcut to Superman becoming humanized in Batman's eyes without it being convoluted, pretentious or difficult to understand.
good mornang sirs
Not an argument.
Plebs weren't ready
Pathetic. Make way for a real movie
Imagine if Superman let his mom die for no reason in Man of Steel, instead of his dad. Then BvS happens
>save… Johnathan…
>I only care about Thomas
>*stabs Superman to death*
>Stop my god-like son that can move at speeds imperceptible to the naked eye, if you save me the only conclusion people will reach is that the blur they saw was my alien son from another planet
>be Superman
>blatantly save my father with my superhuman abilities and everyone around sees it
>call them all homosexuals and tell them that nobody will ever believe them if they say anything
>if anyone gets fresh then I just hurl them into the tornado
it was that easy
Considering the scale of the event we saw onscreen, I am absolutely certain Clark could have run over to the old man at a casual jog, scooped him up and ran back with him in front of hundreds of witnesses and they would have just been like "You're crazy, you coulda been killed" and he could've shrugged and been like "praise Jesus lol" and it'd just be that weird thing that everybody flatters and teases him about at a barbecue once a year
Look at his pose, he just thought he could parry the tornado and wanted to look cool in front of his son is all.
>everyone in Smallville will forget your face once you become Superman anyway
The Martha thing is a moronic complaint but Jonathan's death was indeed handled very badly.
The Martha thing isn’t a moronic complaint. That scene was embarrassing to watch, and there was audible laughter in the theater. BVS was the worst movie I had ever seen until the last jedi came out
Explain what's wrong with it. It's humanizing and immediately creates common ground between the two on a more authentic level than if Superman just said "I like pizza, not all humans are bad"
It’s regarded, it’s not humanizing at all.
Why wouldn't Batman sympathize with someone whose mother is about to get killed if that's what led him to become Batman in the first place?
I reject your question. The reason it’s moronic isn’t because Batman sympathizes with someone’s mother being killed. The issue with the scene is what happens in it, not your interpretation of what happens in it. What happens in the scene is Superman inexplicably calls his mother by her first name, and then Batman can’t fight him because his mom has the same name. That is all that happens, and it’s stupid.
>Batman can’t fight him because his mom has the same name
It's sheer madness that nobody in the creative process said "this is stupid, we should change this to be less stupid"
>What happens in the scene is Superman inexplicably calls his mother by her first name, and then Batman can’t fight him because his mom has the same name
Why not when that's what Batman's entire pathology is centered around?
If Batman found out Joker's or Two-face's or Ivy's or Penguin's mother was named Martha, would he let them go?
No, because the difference is they actually committed a lot more crime than Superman who does his best to stop crime.
Batman was paranoid due to Superman's fight with Zod and the destructive capability a Kryptonian had. But Superman's record was still clean. Batman is the one who was in the wrong to try and kill Superman. He is the flawed one in this instance.
>Superman's record was still clean
homie he killed half of the metropolis
To save it. What else was he supposed to do, not fight the guy who is trying to terraform the entire Earth?
>but muh one city
Something the movie could have leaned into more was Bruce seething because from his point of view on the ground Superman literally 9/11ed the shit out of the city but it was 100% Zod and he was just getting dragged along for it
>hey zod, i know you wanna save the kryptonian race and i do too! how about we take your terraforming machine and the birthing matrix with us to mars and make a new krypton there?
That or do the Dragon Ball thing of taking the fight away from the city.
>i do too!
>literally says "Krypton had its chance."
Zodd was smart enough to not fall for this psychopath
I think his intentional worst act was killing a bunch of babies and commiting genocide.
But then it comes back to the original motivation. Superman's fight with the other Kryptonians would have killed thousands (and almost wiped out humanity completely) and Batman more than most have seen how bad humans can go when they go bad. If there is even a 1% chance that superman goes even 1% as bad as someone like Joker or Ivy, then humanity is done for.
This is a Batman who is broken so completely that he kills people for what they might do.
That's what makes the Superman/Batman debate compelling in the first place. Because it's hard to tell who is justified. Superman is a potential planet destroying liability, yet he's also the individual who could save humanity from threats that humanity couldn't deal with on their own.
And yet, it's "solved" in the eyes of the film because Bruce's mother and Clark's adopted mother shares a first name. And the only planet wide threat this version of earth has faced is Kryptonian.
It could be a compelling debate if it had been built up to properly over the course of a franchise, it isn't in the Snyderverse.
Martha scene was shit and you’re dumb.
Why didn't he just rip the door open and, if asked by bystanders, tell it was already loose due to the damage? He could pretend to struggle with it a bit too. For what it's worth, I don't think anyone would be even asking questions about it. They'd assume the situation wasn't as bad as it looked.
Why is Pa Kent doing the roman salute? Is he a fascist?
Don't be stupid. Lots of people like to salute Roman style. It's not just fascists who throw up the old ave Caesar. Nazis do it too. And him doing the Roman salute doesn't necessarily mean he is a nazi or a fascist. He might just really hate the israelites.
>What if Alex Jones found the ship with Kal-El?
>Be Superman
>Spin really fast and drill an underground tunnel and save Pa Kent by pulling him down
>Classic doofy hero music plays
he could save martha but he couldnt save his own daughter
Does he think no one understood that immediately?
Thinking isn't something Snyder excels at
>IF THERE IS 1% CHANCE HE TURNS AGAINST US WE NEED TO KILL HIM
>THE SAME NAME AS THIS THING I CONSIDER NONHUMAN HAS THE SAME NAME AS MY DEAD MOM I AM GOING IIINSAAAANE
still fricking moronic
it's actually more moronic because Snyder went on to say Superman deliberately said Martha as a trick up his sleeve to stop Batman lmao
no he didn't
>"What else could he say to Batman, holding the Kryptonite spear about to plunge it into his heart — like, what is he gonna say to convince him that his love of humanity is as high as Batman's?" concluded Snyder. "I mean, really, Superman could kill him in a second, like literally in a second, so that was why I was like, 'Ok well, he's gotta play every possible trick.'"
Cute cat
That's not Superman playing a trick. It's the most logical thing to write in that scene, that's what Snyder is saying here.
Because in that context there is no other response on Superman's end that would make Batman rethink his choices.
It’s not the most logical way to write the scene. The scene shouldn’t even exist to begin with.
the logical thing would be for Superman to say "save my mother", unless he was deliberately invoking the name Martha as a trick to freeze Batman, like Snyder says it is lol
>that's gotta get him
But Superman didn't know Bruce's mother was named Martha. So it's not a trick. What Snyder is saying is that out of all the options, all the tricks in the proverbial book, Martha was the best thing to write in that scene because it was the strongest connection the two characters could have.
you are chewing a sack of shit and trying to prove it is actually a chewing gum
I have issues with BvS, particularly with Lex Luthor who despite being similar to golden age Lex was still miscast, but the Martha scene never bothered me.
I guess people just don't give a shit about the concept/importance of the mother. That's fine.
In that same video Snyder says he offered the role of Lex to DiCaprio first but he turned it down.
I don't care if it's topical, making Lex a gay ADHD techbro was a terrible decision and it didn't help that around then the perfect Lex was burned in fricking Ant-Man
People DO give a shit about the concept of a mother, and no one calls their mother by first name, and that's precisely why it sounds off you to everyone else but you, fricking turbo sperg autist
Martha makes all the difference as a soundbite. "My mother" in that framing, in that context, would be stupid and the scene wouldn't work.
Now, did the scene even need to have the mother stipulation in the first place? Maybe not. That's a whole other debate in itself. But it doesn't warrant the amount of, "fricking turbo sperg autist" nitpicking it got. For Christ's sake, it's a capeshit movie.
Speaking of which, I'm done debating a capeshit movie's merits.
So Steppenwolf fricked it up. All he had to say is that his mom is Martha, and Batman would stopped the bugs eating him alive, cause seeing this inhuman having the same name as his mom is shocking
We know, except this doesn't work because Batman literally talks about how Superman parents must've promised him a good life or someshit so yeah it's really only because they share the same name batman gave a frick.
Sneedman is the reason why I believe Hollywood success is largely manufactured. He took the ticket. He rides with Satan.
I dont read comics so I know nothing about Superman or Batman, but have their mothers always had the same name? Did nobody find that weird for decades? And it was only until that movie that people acknowledged it? Isnt that fricking weird?
Superman's mom was originally named Mary, then a 1948 film serial named her Martha for some reason. Also, understand that shared universes were not a thing until many, many years after these two characters began publication and you are essentially criticizing two unrelated works for having a character share a first name.
She was Sarah in the film serial
>Although a "passing motorist" is described as having found the infant Kal-El in the character's first appearance in 1938's Action Comics #1, 1939's Superman #1 introduces Superman's adoptive parents to the mythos, with "Mary Kent" being the only parent given a name. The Kents' first names vary in stories from the 1940s. A 1942 Superman novel, The Adventures of Superman by George Lowther, gave the names "Eben and Sarah Kent"; Eben and Martha Kent were used in the 1948 Superman film serial; while Eben and Sarah Kent were used in the 1952 première of Adventures of Superman television series, but the first extensive retelling of Superman's origin in Superman #53 (July–August 1948, billed as the "10th Anniversary Issue!") names them "John and Mary Kent".
Shit, I’m thinking of the George Reeves show
No. Martha Waye has always been named Martha. Ma Kent's name was Mary until the early 50s where it was changed to Marthe, which was most likely just a typo since it was changed to Martha after that.
Always? No. Bruce’s parents names were set in his first appearance in 1940, but Clark’s parents names went through several changes. Original, his dad was unnamed and his mom was Mary Kent. In the George Reeves show (which is very comfy and criminally underrated), they’re named Eben and Sarah Kent. For a while, they were named John and Mary Kent. In the 50s, Superboy comics became a thing, and the characters were expanded on. Originally, they didn’t do anything besides adopt him, and were only shown in retelling of his origin. Superboy comics were set in Smallville, and his backstory was fleshed out, and his parents were major characters. It was here they were given the names Jonathan and Martha. So, their moms have had the same names since the 50s.
No, superman's mom was a man in drag named Mark.
nobody actually reads superman comics and batman has become AI slop, look at the picture, they blatantly put batfleck in multiple panels without rime or reason. Its pathetic. Nobody cares about thomas (maybe flashpoint thomas) and certainly less about martha
>he doesn't know greg land
This shit has been done for decades boy, just a handful of "artists".
yeah I know about greg, "boy"
Those panels of Catwoman (most obviously the one where she's kissing Batman) "drawn" by Andrea Sorrentino are so blatantly AI generated art that got traced over.
The midjourney ass lighting, the inconsistent mask design that changes every other panel, literally Ben Affleck's Batman (most AI image generation tools are known to use Batfleck to train their "realistic Batman" models)...
I know Andrea has traced plenty of times before, but tracing over AI? That's a double offense. This only justifies comic piracy even more, I suppose.
Kinda wild that DC were either fooled or let this slide, considering being an artist on the main Batman run is one of the highest paying gigs for an artist in the industry.
Do love to see BvS homosexuals scrambling to attempt to try to explain why it’s a good movie and not a POS.
Explain what's bad about it aside from having some scenes that drag and the fact that it should've focused more on action.
>explain what’s bad about it EXCEPT the two biggest things that make it shit tier slop
Well I guess when you move the goal post like that you win Zack.
Its a boring incoherent mess which brazenly squandered some of the most well established and cherished comic book characters in existence. The sheer incompetence it takes to put batman vs superman to screen and still
fail is beyond moronation and bordering malice.
NTA and I'm fine with that as a consensus but it's still funny how the Martha scene filtered people the way it did.
The incoherent "pajeet" adjectives make it even better. Unintentionally implying pajeets are smarter than whoever saw that scene and didn't get it.
"Pajeet" isn't an adjective, pajeet.
>all the people who had a problem with the writing of the scene actually just didn't understand it!!
ridiculous levels of cope on display here
How is it wrong though? To me the perception of this scene ITT is more indicative of autism than the scene itself which IS inherently walking on that edge by sheer concept alone, that being the two characters it involves.
My fascination is with the fact that it filtered people, not whether the movie is "good" or "bad". I mean, does anyone even give a shit if it's good or bad? It came out ages ago.
The first 30 minutes of the film filtered people. Not the ending.
Elaborate.
> Not the ending.
I thought killing Superman so early was a dumb decision. Really, there are lots of poorly thought out decisions in the film.
But I'm specifically arguing in favor of the Martha scene.
my opinion is that if you have tens of millions of dollars and you sit down to write a script where Batman and Superman fight, and the climax of their fight is "same mom name", stop writing and have a nice day before you can do any more damage to the collective creative works of humanity.
Lmao why do moms upset you so much?
Batman discovering superman's humanity by finding out about his mum is not a bad plot point on its face. But it was executed in maybe the laziest, stupidest and nonsensical way.
Here, Zack. This is all you had to do, homosexual.
>Thomas Wayne saying "Martha, you can't die... Martha... can't..." in the intro
>Superman saying "Martha... Kent..."
Get it? Because it sounds the same. Holy fricking shit, was it that hard?
Won't work in bongland. They all say kAAAAAAAAnt. The longer the A, the more British you are.
No, we don’t. You don’t know shit as usual.
>t. Paki
I’m probably whiter than you are Kant.
Calm down, Muhammad.
>It is over grandpa, now you die
>s-save Martha
>why did you say that name??
>its his mother name!!
>Paul throws away the dagger
>I consider you a nonhuman, but my mom is martha too, this totally got me
The defense I've seen Snydergays give is that line makes Batman realize what he perceived as an alien threat is just as human as everyone else. Of course the problem with that dumbass logic is that this is a Batman who is supposed to already be broken by having fought monstrous humans of his own rogues gallery and has lost his loved ones to them.
Superman revealing his humanity should further reinforce Batman's desire to kill him as he has seen more than most how corruptible humans are and how badly they can turn. He would be thinking: "What if Joker had the power to wipe out humanity? What if Two-face flipping a coin could mean wiping out cities? What if Riddler wasn't limited to just trying to outwit people?" etc etc.
It's difference because losing Martha was the traumatic catalyst that led Bruce to becoming who he is, along with losing his father. Him being taken aback makes sense because his entire obsessive pathology on stopping crime centers around.. Martha.
different*
Sure, he could be taken aback for a moment and pause for a second before shoving that spear into Superman's chest, doing it for Martha, and every other innocent mother, father, brother, sister and child out there. Each traumatic event for Bruce, as depicted in the film, shows that it has escalated his methods for stopping crime into full blown killing without mercy or consideration.
and then he keeps doing it
Yes, he goes onto keep killing anyone he deems a criminal or threat to others until stopped. Because he's a man of incredible discipline, determination and purpose who has been broken by trauma again and again. He would not be swayed by someone's mother sharing a name with his own mother, let alone them revealing their humanity, not if he has fallen like the film sets him up to having done so.
>Its over Thanos, I told you that you will die
>you should have saved my Martha
>why did you say that name?
>its my moms name
>Thor throws away the axe
>I consider you a nonhumam, but my mom is martha too, this totally got me
Thanos also killed multiple people and had a plan to erase half the universe. Superman didn't and had carte blanche to be given the benefit of the doubt that MAYBE he isn't bad after all. No such thing with Thanos.
Plus, Batman wasn't justified in wanting to kill Superman, it was him being paranoid.
>if there is 1% chance he will turn against us we need to destroy him
>b-but it wasn't justisfied
keep seething snyderhomosexual
I thought conflict of batman and superman were deeper than just batman being xenophobic. I guess modern cinema is indeed very low intellect.
Okay. Go on. Explain more. I still don't get it.
Lol i always thought he meant he could time travel and would take Batman back to save Martha Wayne. Lol
I didn't even know Superman mum was called Martha I thought she was Louis.
The time travel aspect is still a better idea tho lol
>how would you feel if Superman had a mother whose name wasn't Martha
>I don't understand, my mother's name was Martha
Why would aliens not have parents?
Especially since he looks EXACTLY like a human being?
>S-save Martha
>Why did you say that name??
>it is his moms name
>lol, my mom was Eve, die homosexual
>stabs him
Written and directed by Zack Snyder
The biggest tragedy of cinema is that the wonderful cast of MoS and BvS was made by this homosexual. Imagine what could WB and DC achieve with a normal p erson and not this lunatic
>Superhuman jerk probably did some psychic trickery on me earlier and learned my dead mother's name to manipulate me
>definitely shanking this homosexual
Imagine being Cavill and Affleck as you read the script then later trying to act this scene out. They were surely like "holy shit why did I sign for this"and filmed it with utter disgust.
Affleck 110%s the role in this movie
Which makes it even weirder how fricking bad he is in every other Batman performance
Write a better version of the scene. Genuinely curious how yours would play out.
a civilian gets into trouble and supes abandons the fight to go save it and while doing so lets his guard down but bats doesnt go for the death stroke and lets superman save the person. took longer to type out than to think up and has no moronic out of left field mention of mothers names in the middle of a life and death fight.
But Supeman could merely be LARPing that he's saving another person, to fool Batman into thinking he's being a hero. In this instance Superman is at Batman's total mercy and is a second away from being killed so he selflessly asks him to at least save Martha, not even knowing Batman's mother's name is Martha.
That's when it all clicks in Batman's head that this potentially dangerous alien is actually closer to himself than he thought and that despite him posing a risk, he could at least save him from the same trauma Batman experienced.
No. Youre trying to mental gymnastic way to make the scene not moronic. Its impossible. In a way that you might understand: major "zoomie explaining 'what is a woman'" energy from you.
What's moronic about it?
The entire concept. "save my mommy, oh yeah she has the same name as yours, isnt that a funny coincidence, lets be friends now". There is no universe or situation where that isnt moronic. Its like it was written by a 6 year old.
Sociopathic take
It's actually really simple. Superman is a potential threat. "Sus", to use zoomer lingo. Over the course of the film he's less and less sus, until it becomes clear to Batman that he misjudged him and that he's becoming what he hates most.
Batman is simply paranoid. It's a part of his character. That's why he creates all those plans to take down the Justice League if they turn to evil.
Now explain what a woman is without using the word woman.
You got filtered by the guy who made the piece of shit film called Rebel Moon. That's more important.
>you saw how moronic and poorly written something is, so you were filtered
Why do people use terms they dont know the meaning of? Snyder, is that you?
>It is over x-men, now you die, sorry but if there is 1% chance you guys turn against us we need to genocide you all
>b-but our moms name is martha
>holy shit my architect was martha too, this totally gets me
This comparison makes no sense for similar reasons to the Thanos comparison
You got filtered by the creator of such classics as.. Sucker Punch.
This is excatly a great comparision, these are robots which were made by paranoid people, just as batman according to your reply
No, that makes it an even worse comparison. You may as well have not watched either movie.
whatever, keep sucking snyders dick
Out of all the things to complain about in BvS, I don't get the issue with the Martha scene.
Could a scene with a similar stipulation be written better? Maybe. But at its core it still makes sense. It being illogical is what could make it bad.
I've watched a lot of capeshit and even with the context "he's from an X-men movie" I still have no fricking idea who this is
I think it's one of the robots from Days of Future Past that were designed to destroy mutants and turned the future into a dystopia.
Wait, THAT'S how they depicted these homies?
The 2000s were a mistake
akstually it was in 2014 so it's the 2010s
That design is firmly rooted in the abominable aesthetic Michael Bay cursed the earth with in 2007
The x-men movies were always changing the comic designs into something bland from the start
Sentinel
People laughed at this scene when I saw the film in a cinema. I did too.
Then again, the whole film felt like a grimdark parody of Nolan's Batman films
>I did too.
wow you're so cool and based I bet you get laid a lot
Women surely dont care if you defend a snyder films terrible writing. So your bargging about getting laid is clearly coming from men. homosexualry isnt sex, only penis in vegana is sex. Cope homosexual incel.
I didn't defend shit. I'm just laughing at your attempts to fit in here.
>attempts to fit in
Oh, its just a redditgay who thinks he can appeal to herd mentality to win an argument on Cinemaphile of all places. Protip for you homosexual, being a free speech website means nobody is trying to agree with each other because we arent afraid of being downvoted or hecking banned.
>everyone le laughed and clabbed and shidded
>i le did too 😀
>not herd mentality
kek stop arguing against yourself gay
How would Batman know that Superman was saying his mother's name?
Because Batman knows the name of his own mother?
How does he know about Superman's mother or what her name was?
But how did he know it was also Superman's mother?
He doesn't, that's why he was rattled. He thinks Superman knows he's Bruce Wayne. Then Lois Lane show up and explains Superman's mother is named Martha.
1. That's not what Snyder said.
2. That interpretation doesn't explain Batman's character growth.
>h-he said said a woman's name in a context that isn't even applicable to Martha, my dead mother because my dead mother is dead
>damnation, I've been found out! foiled again!
Huh?
yes. Batman cares about his secret identity since its mean to protect people he cares about. If Superman knows it, people like Alfred could be in danger.
You mean Alfred?
Doesn't exactly take a super duper genius detective to figure out that "you're letting him kill Martha" doesn't refer to an already dead Martha.
A super duper genius detective would then have been able to use this information to deduce that Suparsaar hasn't got a clue who Baatsaar is and is talking about another Martha.
Yes, problem is that Batman has absurd levels of PTSD regarding his parents deaths. He starts having flashbacks when Superman says Martha and snaps out of the cold rational calculating mindset that's gotten him to the point where he's basically won against Superman. This is just what happens in the scene. Whether it makes sense that he then spares Superman over their mother's having the same names is different issue of course.
>Whether it makes sense that he then spares Superman over their mother's having the same names is different issue of course.
It does make sense because Batman's plan is to pre-emptively kill Superman and thus avoid any potential threats. But he understands the error of his ways and obviously ends up making the right choice since Superman is also who largely saves their asses in the next film.
Completely false.
Because Superman has the benefit of the doubt that regular goons and killers don't have.
Batman KNOWS Superman could be a force for good and Clark has proven as much. He simply doesn't want to take any risks. Until his grief over his dead mother overrides his "logical" mind, which isn't uncommon for a human. Most of our decisions are actually taken on emotion.
Most of our decisions are indeed based on emotion. And Bruce here is a broken traumatized man who has strayed from his original principled path. He doesn't just magically get healed because Superman gets humanized.
>And Bruce here is a broken traumatized man who has strayed from his original principled path
True.
>He doesn't just magically get healed because Superman gets humanized.
Why not? That's like saying a junkie can't become clean.
>Why not? That's like saying a junkie can't become clean.
They can, but not overnight because they found out someone else had a mother who shares a name with their own mother. It's a long process, usually requiring hitting rock bottom. Killing Superman could have been Bruce's rock bottom if handled right.
>but not overnight
It can happen overnight actually.
>Killing Superman could have been Bruce's rock bottom if handled right.
What happened to Bruce is that he realized he was about to kill HIMSELF by becoming what he hates most.
He was going to murder an innocent man and cause him the same trauma that he himself experienced. At that moment the "potential threat of Superman" took a back seat and Bruce's conscience and morals prevailed. In saving Superman he was saving Batman.
But he was already killing without consideration or mercy. This isn't a Batman about to go over the edge, it's a Batman that already has. And Superman wasn't an innocent man to Batman either, not as setup in this universe.
>But he was already killing without consideration or mercy
He was killing criminals.
>And Superman wasn't an innocent man to Batman either, not as setup in this universe.
He wasn't as guilty as people who were killing civilians on purpose. The issue with Superman, going off Batman's own admission, is that if there's even a 1% chance he'll "go bad", that's too much of a risk. But he obviously refreshed his stance.
Right, he refreshed his stance because Superman is no longer just an alien menace, now he is humanized. Not like Batman has ever seen humans doing terrible things, being willfully as evil as possible doing everything they can to exact as much pain and suffering onto others as they can. Oh wait......
And Batman didn't care about them being criminals, the grunts he kills during the chase for the kryptonite wouldn't know what was inside and wouldn't have criminal records, those would be ex-military working for a private security firm. They were in the way so he moved them down.
>Not like Batman has ever seen humans doing terrible things, being willfully as evil as possible
Superman hasn't been like that. He is merely a potential threat. A ticking time bomb. But Batman realizes that he isn't as bad as he seems.
End scene.
Which does nothing to solve the initial problem, Superman has the power to wipe out humanity if he goes bad, and Batman is so broken he no longer sees the good in people. There's no good reason, emotionally or logically, why he would suddenly see the good in this Superman. Not after what this film, and Man of Steel showed of him, or more accurately haven't shown.
>Which does nothing to solve the initial problem
But it does. Superman ends up sacrificing his own life to save humanity in the same film.
>and Batman is so broken he no longer sees the good in people
He heals.
>But it does. Superman ends up sacrificing his own life to save humanity in the same film.
No it doesn't. First off, it's not the emergence of Doomsday that stops Batman from killing Superman, that happens after, it's Lois running in exclaiming "it's his mother's name", and Batman "heals" because he just magically does the moment 'Martha' is mentioned according to the defenders of the film.
It would have worked a whole lot better if Doomsday emerges before Batman can finish off Superman, Wonder-woman intervenes because she realizes it's going to take all 3 of them to stop Doomsday, maybe throw in some stupid line from Batman about this not being over, and then have the Doomsday fight play out as it does with Superman making the ultimate sacrifice.
That example, along with Wonder-woman can then drag Bruce out of the broken state he is in.
It literally did though. Batman not killing Superman pays off.
It does, but Batman doesn't spare Superman so Superman can help with Doomsday so you can't justify his decision to spare him with that. The whole scene is as stupid as if Batman turned to the camera with a big smile and says: "lol just a joke. In about 30minutes we need Superman to go kill this big CGI monster for us"
Yeah but I wasn't implying that's the reason he saved him. He saved him because he realized that despite being a potential threat, he's ultimately not as "alien" as he thought, and that he couldn't allow himself to put him through the same trauma just because Superman could possibly, one day, maybe, under bad circumstances do something bad.
Put him through what trauma, the trauma of losing his mother? Guess what, if he kills Clark before Martha is dead, Clark isn't losing his mother, his mother is losing her adopted son. Batman can still go save Martha after killing Superman if he is so inclined.
Also, again, humanizing Superman would do nothing to prevent Batman from killing him since Batman is already killing other humans as he has fought horrible human monsters his entire time as Batman. Which broke him.
Yes it would. Because as you mentioned in your very own post, Batman was killing "horrible human monsters" and not just any random people. He wouldn't kill some Mr. Olympia simply for being stronger than him. (presumably at least, maybe Batman really IS that insecure)
Superman had NOT shown himself to be a monster. Just a potential threat. But Batman got over that idea. How? By realizing they have more in common than he assumed and that Superman is closer to humans than it seems. And just to be clear, this is stock plot that a kid would probably understand.
Better kill cyborg since he is a literally alien death machine and batman knows it.
If he thought Superman knew he was Bruce Wayne, he'd only hit him harder. What the frick are you on?
Why? He's got Superman in a completely unwinnable position. Literally just interrogate Superman and find out what he knows, then kill him like planned.
I can't believe distributors keep giving this pretentious moron money.
Sneeder has literally one good movie and it's 300, total hack fraud
>tfw you get the point of the scene but find it stupid in execution
Simply understanding a scene does not automatically make it a good scene.
Imagine still defending Snyder after Rebel Moon. He was already a proven hack from the DCEU but at least fanboys could say he was undermined by Warner Bros or something. With the Rebel Moon movies he's gotten a blank check, total creative control, and they're fricking awful. He has no excuses left. The man is simply not a good filmmaker.
All of which is irrelevant as it pertains to the aspects of BvS that are criticized most frequently, A.K.A. the Martha scene. I fail to understand the flaws here. Superman gets humanized in Batman's eyes and he is reminded of why he can't allow his mother to die even if Superman poses a "potential" risk to humanity, key word being potential. Superman isn't Zod. He doesn't have a conscious desire to destroy humanity.
Why would Superman being humanized in the eyes of Batman do anything to deter him from killing him? Batman is already killing humans after having seen how bad they can go from years of dealing with his rogue's gallery. Now there is a being with the power to wipe out humanity, realizing that being is more human than first assumed does nothing to dispel that threat
>total creative control
If he got total creative control he wouldn't have to make 2 cuts of the same movie.
He honestly totally would because he now exploits the shit out of the Snydercut meme.
Also by his own words, the extended version is actually its own thing so they are two separate entities and should be criticised separately
>nooo that wasn't my Real Vision™ you have to wait for the special uncut versions!
How many times are you going to fall for this crap?
Except all of his directors cuts are indeed better than their theatrical counterparts. In this case it's not even just an extended version, there's an hours worth of extra footage and apparently the tone is entirely different. I haven't watched the Netflix cuts and never will because I know those are just the contractual obligations so that he could release his actual vision.
>and apparently the tone is entirely different
Well done repeating what Snyder said about his own movie
Well yeah am I not supposed to take him at his word? That's why I didn't waste my time with the Pg-13 versions because I actually listen to what directors have to say about their own movies that I'm interested in.
>those are just the contractual obligations so that he could release his actual vision
Snyder produced, wrote, filmed, and directed those versions, and oversaw editing. And they are extreme shit. Don't pretend it was a hackjob by Netflix, it was a hackjob by Snyder because Snyder is a hack.
>Snyder produced, wrote, filmed, and directed those versions, and oversaw editing. And they are extreme shit. Don't pretend it was a hackjob by Netflix
Do you seriously not understand the deal he made? He edited those version according to the notes that Netflix gave him and pretty much gave in to all their demands because he knew he would be getting his unencumbered R-rated cuts down the line which is the script he originally wrote. The PG-13 versions that have been released are just hacked down sanitized versions of that script by design.
There is nothing. “R-rated,” that could be added to those movies to make them anything but giant piles of shit. Same with suckerpunch.
>With the Rebel Moon movies he's gotten a blank check, total creative control, and they're fricking awful.
The blank check versions haven't been released yet dummy only the Netflix mandated PG-13 cuts. Why are Snyder haters always so disingenuous and bad faith?
I like Zack, but he really needs to hire a PR person. People often forget he's dyslexic and has trouble articulating his words without sounding moronic if taken at literal face value.
I think at this point he genuinely enjoys causing massive spergouts.
It's not his fault audiences are moronic. Zack Snyder is a Michael Bay level director who is still too smart for the average capeshit audience who can't even understand simple scenes like Martha.
Why is a moron who cant even read being put incharge of anything? Shouldnt he have a job more suited to his skills? Like digging a ditch or working fast food?
Zack was placed in charge of the dceu because, literally, no one else wanted the job, that's not how you start a succesful franchise.
What if she was called, I don't know, Anika? Would THISSONOFABITCHBROUGHTTHESOUNDOFABITCHTOUS have his little flashback about his mom or would he just straight murder superman because he wouldn't have any attachment to that name?
As usual fans can come up with better explanations than Snyder himself:
In my headcanon, it's established (in the ultimate cut) that Clark was investigating and keeping tabs on Bruce (and probably his family history). So, it makes perfect sense that Clark, helpless, would resort to playing mind games on Bruce by calling out his mother's name to snap him out of his blood rage.
They actually can't if this thread is any indication. That's what saves Snyders' work from being as bad as it is. The "fans" propose even dumber scenes. So it's better to just shitpost like this guy because at least it makes for more entertaining discussions
Would have been impactful if he had said, "save my mother". "Save Martha" just doesn't sound right, and I get what he was trying to do and he almost got there but he was moronic about it. Batman sees Superman as an alien threat, as the enemy and as the only one that has the chance to stop him. When Superman is defeated, and Batman stands over him pleading him to save his mother. It would have shook Batman in to seeing him as more than just some alien menace. You didn't need to do the correlation of their mothers having the same name, you wouldn't have needed to have Clark moments before dead pleading him to "save Martha", saying "please save my mother" would have been more human and impactful. That's the problem, Snyder can't think like a normal person with emotions and he made his Superman barely have any humanity.
>Would have been impactful if he had said, "save my mother". "Save Martha"
The name Martha is the common link between them. Batman's entire crusade against crime began when his parents were murdered. That name would have an emotional impact on him and override his rage.
Maybe Superman could've said "save my mother, Martha", but the name itself is still an integral part of it.
> It would have shook Batman in to seeing him as more than just some alien menace
It did. That's exactly what happens in the movie. On top of Batman realizing he's becoming Joe Chill without realizing it.
The name is irrelevant. At the core, it is a man pleading for his mother's life. That is the link between them. They both have mothers, they were both born to this world and he isn't a soulless monster as Bruce thought. Having him call her Martha and then Snyder telling us that the reason he stopped is because his dead mother has the same name? Just reeks of cope and trying to give some type of inside information to make the scene seem more deep. Yet another problem that Snyder has, the only way he knows how to add depth to anything is by giving derivative hints to other media or lesser known information about a character. The scene would have been better if both character's mothers had a different name because then Snyder wouldn't have needed to add his sense of "depth" in to the scene.
>The name is irrelevant
It's very much relevant because that was his own mother's name. Superman is bringing up Martha, not just "any mother". It triggers Batman's own trauma and PTSD.
>and then Snyder telling us that the reason he stopped is because his dead mother has the same name?
He was taken aback by the name and he asked Superman why he mentioned it. Then Lois appeared and explained it's his mother's name.
> The scene would have been better if
I'll entertain you on how the scene would've actually been better. If Superman somehow saved Bruce's mother. That would drive home the point that he's a good person. Except he can't because Batman's mother is dead, as are most of the people he cares about.
This was the next best thing.
what a fricking idiot
Everyone understood the concept. The execution was just shit. All he had to do was say "save my mom." It immediately humanises him to Batman by showing that even this alien monster is just a scared boy afraid to lose his parents like Bruce did. The name doesn't need to be said at all.
>Zack Snyder explains
>not even the meaning or intent behind anything
>but the fricking PLOT
He'll never be an artist.
How does it feel to be zach snyder and know that your movie can only be discussed through bad faith arguing shit posts? That the only people praising you are doing it to have a laugh at people who like movies
Imagine if Superman had any lines to say to Batman in this moronic gay movie besides IF I WANTED IT YOU'D BE DEAD ALREADY and YOU'RE LETTING HIM KILL MARTHA
>ITT: people who hate their own mothers wondering why normal people don't
>life and death fight against an alien with world destroying power
>HEY HE SAID MY DEAD MOMMYS NAME, WHY DID HE DO THAT????
>oh my god wait he has a mommy too?!?
>HIS MOMMY HAD THE SAME NAME???!?!??!!!?!?!
>we are now bffs, lets go fight the other alien
This is top tier writing to a synderfan and some how better than the dark knight returns version of this fight
>Zack Snyder explains the infamous Cranberries song choice
>Well you see the audience doesn't know that the character we're seeing has been bitten by a zombie, they think he survived the nuking of Las Vegas to be the one heister who gets away with the loot at the end. But the song is subtly telling them that he's actually a zombie, because they keep saying zombie in the song, subtly foreshadowing the twist that's about to come when his bite is revealed.
chuds BTFO good sirs!
Interesting. So Army of the Dead is a zombie movie? I wish I had paid attention to the soundtrack when I was watching, that is illuminating.
Honestly a big problem with the movie is that it's not enough of a zombie movie and it has literally zero heist elements beyond them having to crack a safe. I really thought I'd like it because Snyder did okay with Dawn of The Dead and I'm a sucker for any heist movie, but he managed to go full moron with it in like five different directions.
I still think the idea of a heist movie where they have to get into a casino and rob the vault without setting off any alarms because that will bring a horde of zombies could make for an exceedingly fun schlock heist movie. The mid-movie "oh shit our carefully planned idea won't work" thing could be that their escape route has been blocked by the zombies so now they have to set the alarm off to draw them away or they have no chance, causing the action finale.
Yeah, I liked Dawn a lot, and Army is nothing like it and is disappointing garbage. Good shlocky concept, but Bad cast, acting, story, everything. However, I will say that Army of the Dead is great when compared to Rebel Moon pt 1 and 2, they are even fricking worse.
That's because he isn't a great writer. He's at his best when adapting other people's work like Watchmen or 300.
I don't know about 300 but he 100% missed the point of Watchmen. Right from the start he gave the heroes actual super-strength, with old man Comedian punching through bricks instead of just being ambushed and thrown out a window and Rorschach using his grappling gun like Batman instead of having to slowly pull himself up the rope. It's like he read a completely different comic filled with actual superheroes instead of the one that keeps pointing out that the only real superhero is Manhattan and he stops caring because he's so above it all, while the regular people playing dress-up accomplish nothing because you can't save the world by punching people in a costume.
>Right from the start he gave the heroes actual super-strength
Stylistic choice to make the fight scenes more visually captivating.
>nooo, completely ignoring a key tenet of the story is just a stylistic choice!!!
a zombie heist is just a stupid idea for a movie. Romero is dead, let his franchise rest with him. Make your own franchises if you need go make a zombie heist movie so badly instead of ruining a dead man's
the 5 minute intro of army of the dead is the movie I wanted to see.
that 5 minute montage was amazing. that's what the movie needed to be. the fall of las Vegas
it truly was an amazing 5 minutes or whatever, 10 minutes
Even in that intro you had truly moronic shit happening thanks to Snyder's writing, like the army air-dropping soldiers onto the strip. They may frick up sometimes but there'd be zero reason for them to try a stunt like that.
yeah but the zombie horde looked so amazing. I hate Snyder and I think he's moronic, but that zombie outbreak it's one of the greatest zombie scenes visually.
then he made a boring moronic heist movie
I don't care what people say. I love BVS, if only for the sheer madness of its existence. And also the sad fact it will probably never be made again.
This is a movie that by all rational logic should never have been made, but was, and was done with such a mad passion and commitment to its own ideas that you can't help but admire it even as it crashed and burned.
If this was another soulless capeshit product, it would have been forgotten after a few months. But people are still making wild theories and discussing it to this day.
It's one of the most auteur driven blockbusters ever made and we'll probably never see anything quite like it again certainly not in the superhero genre.
This. There's a reason it made it into the /film/ charts.
I watched the interview from OPs pic and Zack is absolutely right about focus groups.
You don't have to like his movies, but them existing is actually a vote against the woke, sanitised trash we keep getting each year from the major studios.
My capital city still full sapport for Snyder
There's unironically nothing wrong with this trilogy aside from Lex Luthor being Jokerized.
ZSJL in particular was good and better than most capeshit.
no one calls their mom by their first name
no one. Zack Snyder is moronic
It's not his biological mother. And Bruce doesn't know who she is so Martha makes slightly more sense from a man who is about to die.
You're autistic as frick. Clark Kent would 100% be embarrassed of calling his mom by her first name. Pa didn't raise him to disrespect her like that.
You're autistic as frick trying to nitpick the shit out of this scene and looking for problems that aren't there.
Why would he say " save my mom". Who the frick is his mom? How is Batman supposed to know who she is? Martha is more specific and he's already been hit by too many doses of Kryptonite and clearly can't afford too much specificity as is.
Yeah but the question is WHO is his mother. It's Martha.
>How is Batman supposed to know who she is?
How the frick is Batman supposed to know who Martha is? There's literally no difference, except for the fact that hearing Clark call his mom by her first name is weird.
The question is not "who is his mother" you dumb c**t. Superman is just desperately pleading for Batman to save his mom. You NEVER refer to your mom by her first name in that context. How moronic are you?
How the frick is Batman supposed to know who Superman's mother is? You're making out Superman to be more moronic than he is. Martha is more specific. He couldn't say her last name but it's still better than "save my literal who mother"
How the frick is Batman supposed to know who Martha is?
Superman was trying to be more specific. Kind of hard when you're being doused in kryptonite and a moment away from getting killed.
He told him that "they're going to kill Martha". He didn't specify who "they" are either, due to the aforementioned reasons.
>Superman wasn't staggered to the point where he'd be that inadequate to say "my mom".
>Kind of hard when you're being doused in kryptonite and a moment away from getting killed.
So which is it pajeet?
Why does it have to be one extreme or the other? He's adequate enough to say Martha but not specify Martha Kent.
>this is the level of intellect required to think Zack Snyder is a good filmmaker
It's not about good or bad filmmaking, it's about whether the scene makes sense or not and it does.
You're the one artistically obsessed with Snyder and in need of nitpicking scenes that are otherwise not complex.
It clearly does not. As proven by the fact that you can't even decide on how fricked up Superman was lol. You moronic little pajeet.
He was very clearly fricked up. He wasn't drunk.
>He was so fricked up that he would say "Martha" but not "Martha Kent" but also wouldn't say "my mom" because he wasn't THAT fricked up, even though by my own admission he was seconds away from death and doused in kryptonite
So tell me this. How much more fricked up would a person have to be to say "my mom" rather than the totally alien and absurd "call my mother by her first name" approach?
It's like asking a person who just got the shit beat out of him to list you his home address, social security number and mother's maiden's name.
You'll get some info but not all of it.
Forget all of the specificity though, the bottom line really is that it's not hard to understand the scene if you watch it.
You didn't do as I asked. I'll repeat the question. Hopefully you'll be able to understand it the second time.
How much more fricked up would a person have to be to say "my mom" rather than the totally alien and absurd "call my mother by her first name" approach?
It's a dumb question.
I accept your concession.
May as well ask me some other random factoid. It will bring absolutely nothing to the discussion.
>Superman was too fricked up to say "Martha Kent" but not fricked up enough to say "my mom"
>What level of fricked up would be required to say "my mom"?
>THAT'S IRRELEVANT
rajesh, please end your life.
You're asking autistic questions that suggest you don't understand simple scenes. Why the frick would I possibly want to answer that?
Rajesh, you are very very stupid.
I'm not the one who got filtered by a scene in a PG-13 capeshit movie albeit.
See:
Can't you put two and two together and consider than maybe Clark doesn't want it to be made evident that it's his mother? That it could be a risk letting Batman know that? But that Martha (Kent) could still be saved?
And that he would omit Kent because he had gotten his ass kicked and whatever he said was all he could? That being, "They" are going to kill "Martha".
>got so desperate he's come up with a fifth different explanation for the moronic writing
lol
Because you can't understand a scene that a 13 year old was legally allowed to watch in a movie theater. Have you tried explaining complex things to a child so that it could better understand?
You cant even keep consistent within your own arguments anymore pajeet lol.
"Martha" is not more specific than "my mom". "My mom" refers to a single individual. It can ONLY refer to a single individual. "Martha" refers to hundreds of thousands of individuals.
Neither of those posts address anything in my post, pajeet. You're really struggling here.
who is Martha
how old is Martha
how many Marthas are there in gotham or Smallville
is she in Smallville? is she in metropolis?
WHICH MARTHA ?
WHAT CITY
WTF
Maybe if Superman wasn't busy being half-dead he'd have explained that, anon.
SAVE JESSICA
?
batman just stabs him?
SAVE MOM
batman: you have a mom? I'm sorry
SAVE HILLARY
batman: Hillary Clinton? wtf?
SAVE MICHELLE
batman: who the frick is Michelle
SAVE MOM
oh Superman has a mom?
fricking retarted
It doesn't matter if Batman knows who she is. All that matters for this scene is that Batman sees Superman being human. He sees this god crumbling into a little boy scared for his parents lives, like Bruce was once upon a time. Why would Batman know who "Martha" is? He wouldn't. He specifically asks for clarification because it's so vague.
You are legitimately disabled.
>Martha is more specific
So specific that Batman has to screech "WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME" in response because that name is so very non-specific that it makes Batman think Superman is referring to HIS mother and not Supe's own. lol you mong
It's more specific than "save my mom". Superman wasn't staggered to the point where he'd be that inadequate to say "my mom".
>It's more specific than "save my mom".
No, it really isn't. Unless he gives Batman more info he won't be able to find out anything with just the name Martha, same as if he'd said mom. The only difference is that in his staggered and vulnerable state there'd be zero chance that the boyscout in blue would refer to his mom by her first name, because it would be completely alien to him.
who the frick is Martha? batman doesn't know that either. is that his girlfriend? .
saying matha doesn't even imply that it's referring to his mom
is Martha his wife? his daughter?
is batman supposed to kill Superman and then do a background check on every Martha is the area?
fricking moronic stupid shit
how old is Martha? is it a teen? is it Batman's she?
BATMAN DOESNT KNOW ANYTHING
The situation was such that he couldn't say "Martha Kent" because he was in a rough shape. It's still more specific than "my mom". Not to mention it's also possible that Superman didn't want to expose Martha is his mother anyway, out of fear that Batman might cause harm to her. He just pleads for Martha to be saved. Lois Lane specified its his mother. Superman wasn't even in a condition to do so at that point.
>Lois Lane specified its his mother. Superman wasn't even in a condition to do so at that point.
>Superman wasn't staggered to the point where he'd be that inadequate to say "my mom".
Make up your mind.
>It's still more specific than "my mom".
No, it isn't. Batman won't be able to find out shit with just the name Martha to go on. He doesn't even know her approximate age, like he would have if he'd said mom. If he'd said "save my mom" then Lois could have explained who his mom was and Batman would have been surprised to find out he's got a mom that needs saving. All of this would have flowed way more naturally than having Clark use his mom's first name and Batman thinking he's talking about HIS mom and freaking out.
>No, it isn't
It is. What cuts off the specificity is the fact that he didn't elaborate on a last name. Maybe because he was doused in kryptonite, staggered and was seconds away from being killed.
> If he'd said "save my mom" then Lois could have explained who his mom was
She explained it anyway.
And again, the name is what caused Batman to reflect on what he's doing and triggered his PTSD. It's why he was so perplexed this alien would say what he did. And ultimately what bought him enough time to not get killed.
>And again, the name is what caused Batman to reflect on what he's doing and triggered his PTSD.
Which is dogshit writing. All that stopped Batman from killing Superman is Superman weirdly calling out his mom's name and Batman being triggered by the colossal coincidence that their moms both had the same name. Instead of Batman just hesitating when he hears this alien threat call out for him to save his mom like a normal scared man would.
His parents' death is what made him become Batman.
>Instead of Batman just hesitating
He hesitated anyway and then Lois chimed in and explained everything.
>His parents' death is what made him become Batman.
Yes, which is why he'd react when the alien is calling out to him to save his mom. Because he lost his own mom. How did you think you were making a counter argument here?
He's Indian. He literally doesn't understand what you're saying.
Do Indians call their moms by their first names? That would explain a lot.
He might be Indian but the people arguing with him are black. You can tell by the IQ being displayed and the fact that they had no mothers.
Have you ever called your mother by her first name?
>Indian tries to bite back by randomly calling people black
>gets things backwards and thinks the stereotype is that black people don't have mothers
lmao
The stereotype applies to both actually.
No it fricking doesn't? The stereotype is 100% that the fathers run off and the mothers end up rasing multiple kids that each have a different baby daddy. That's always been the stereotype.
It's applicable, trust me
having a real Indian on Cinemaphile arguing about Zack Snyder is really like a celebrity sighting lol
like seeing Leonardo DiCaprio in the airport lol.
>in the airport
Bold move to assume I'm the Indian, ESL, you can't even type properly.
It's not about whether Snyder is a good filmmaker or not. I think he's the equivalent of a "commercial guy". Most capeshit directors are. But I find it funny how you got filtered by a capeshit movie.
Are you under the impression there's anything grammatically wrong with the phrase "in the airport"? lmao rajesh you're humiliating yourself here.
It's AT the airport, Amir. And you got filtered by a scene that your fellow pajeets apparently had 0 issue deciphering. Because it's a blockbuster that a 13 year old could legally walk into, watch and understand.
>it's "at the airport"
It can be either, pajeet lol. The airport is a physical building that you can be inside of, you moron. How do you pajeets even make it through the day? lmao
You are mentally disabled, rajesh.
>cope
I accept your concession (again). Imagine thinking "in the airport" is wrong lmao
At is the right preposition to use with airport. "In" is suspect. If you weren't ESL you would've immediately went with "at".
Absolutely, unequivocally incorrect. "At the airport" refers to the location. "In the airport" refers to the building itself. You are not educated enough to have this discussion, Pajeet.
Yeah, nah. At the airport is the correct way to say it.
>pajeets are smarter than me
Not a flex tbh.
>pajeet absolutely seething after embarrassing himself for the tenth time this thread
kek. tell me more about pajeet being an adjective lmao
Slurs can be used as attributive nouns or adjectives.
More than anything, it's not argument. And if we assume pajeets are moronic than my homie you're the King of India.
then*
see, I have slip ups too 🙂
>"pajeet" can be an adjective
lmao
>And if we assume pajeets are moronic than my homie you're the King of India.
>than
>THAN
>mfw
It can. If you had a grasp on the English language you'd know that.
You're the one trying to make counter arguments to a perfectly logical turn of events.
>perfectly logical
Superman shouldn't be running on logic at that point, just as Batman isn't running on logic. He's close to death and so scared farm boy Clark should just be calling out for his mom, not calling out for Martha like a sterile alien functioning on only logic, you autistic frick.
>sterile
>autistic
You inadvertently conjured up accurate adjectives to be associated with your posts and logic. Well done.
Yeah man there's nothing sterile or autistic about calling your mom by her first name. No, it's totally the people who call them mom who are weirdo autistics.
Again, Martha is more specific than "my mom". Also
is Martha 18
is she 28
is she in Gotham?
is she in Metropolis
it's so fricking stupid.
batman doesn't even know what city to check.
moronic
>ignores everything and asks the same questions over and over
If I was Batman in that moment then I'd think the alien freak I'm scared of can read minds or somehow found out about my history and is mocking me by calling out my mom's name and telling me I should have saved her.
>It's not his biological mother.
Superman would slap the shit out of you for saying she's not his real mom.
>SAVE MARTH-ACK
When asked in interview why Lex knew who Superman was Snyder's response was to ask 'well why wouldn't he know?'. Which is a pretty logical explanation really. But the flip side of course is why didn't Bruce know? I don't think there's a logical answer to that really.
in bvs batman doesn't even know Supermans secret identity or anything. he doesn't know who he is
Martha doesn't imply it's supermans mother
if anything I would think Superman is mentioning his human girlfriend.
save Martha to me would mean " save my girlfriend"
not his mom
>When asked in interview why Lex knew who Superman was Snyder's response was to ask 'well why wouldn't he know?'. Which is a pretty logical explanation really.
Not really. Why would Lex even believe Superman had parents on Earth? He sees Superman as this otherworldly threat so why the frick would he spend any resources on trying to figure out his flesh and blood parents living on Earth, instead of assuming he's without parents entirely or that they live on another planet?
do gays who enjoy this slop legitimately think we don't understand Hack Sneeders tiny brain?
You don't need to enjoy something to understand it. People itt have a hard time getting a scene that a toddler would probably decipher.
>dude you're not getting the scene
We all understand what the scene is trying to do, man, we're just calling it moronic because it was shitty writing.
The Martha cope by Snyder Homos is out of control
This fight was stupid anyway and made no sense. Superman should have just stayed in the sky and talked to Batman. The fight got stupid when Superman flew down to get into Batman's face. Superman superman wa also not thinking at all during the fight. It's kinda funny how he just turns into a moron and takes all this easily avoidable Krytonite weapons. I get getting tagged by the first one. But after that Superman should have taken the fight to a more open area or retreated.
rebel moon is pretentious dog shit.
army of the dead is moronic incoherent shit
suckerpunch is moronic weird incoherent shit
bvs is moronic incoherent shit
>ignore the established stereotypes and just trust me I know things better good sirs
How many old people have you talked into buying you gift cards?
Watch me bring it back to black people again in my next post.
I could explain to you how 2+2 equals 4 and you'd use Terryology to tell me how that's wrong. That's the level of discourse we're at right now.
why does he cause so much seethe? 300 being racist and problematic?
Why didn't they just remake the animated justice league movies in live action. They were actually kino and in live action normies would like it.
Then they could have done the 10/10 flashpoint movie instead of the shit they did....
also yes i know live action adaptations are always shit. But why? Why cant they just take something good and put it to film with some real money? Why do have to frick everything up so badly?
>google "at the airport" to try to explain to pajeet how it works
>the first link is a pajeet on quora having it explained to him by other pajeets
kek
Next poster in the pointless pajeet argument is the true pajeet
the martha line is genius
Uhh but it doesn't support my science. I wanted a more logical explanation. How could they make up over such a simple reason?
I want you to know that was a shitpost specifically in response the post directly above it and you're so fricking stupid that you thought someone was finally supporting you lmao
>d-dont you get you're being made fun of? stop replying to me
lmao you're so angry at being fooled
you outed yourself as the real pajeet because you replied after the post
so you agree with the real pajeet? what does that make you then?
something you'll never be (white)
Post a picture of your eyes and if they're blue I'll write a three page essay about how Synder is a genius.
>dox yourself
nah
+ they're green
>a photo of your eyes is doxxing
lol pajeet doesn't even know what doxxing is
>I'm done
I bet you reply to this post, pajeet. especially given that you're wrong about it being more human to say your mother's first name instead of just "my mom"
nice try glowie
We've been doing the equivalent of arguing about the writing in a Michael Bay movie. It's silly. So yes, I'm done. Enjoy getting filtered by low level filmmakers, which by the way Snyder very much is. He is an MTV music video director. He is not the least bit complex, profound or impressive. And you managed to completely misunderstand a scene in his movie only because there was a meme on how silly it was when in reality it was neither silly or pretentious or dishonest. It's the most honest scene in the movie.
>"I'm done!"
>replies again
kek
>Enjoy getting filtered
There's that word again. Calling shitty writing shitty and autistic does not mean that you've somehow missed the point of the scene because it was too intellectually demanding. The scene was just shitty.
>I'm going to kill you
>Oh no, what will my mother Martha think??
>Your mother is called Martha too?? Let's be friends!!!
Considering the paranoid maniac in the bat costume's entire lifestyle was altered due to Martha dying, it's not that far fetched tbh. He wants to avoid more Marthas out there kicking the ole bucket.
One more Martha death and he becomes batbat
Why would the paranoid maniac not just think the alien is reading his mind and plucking Martha out as a name to distract him with?
Snyder cultists actually think this is fine
Objectively speaking, anti-Snyder cultists are more autistic and deranged. To such an extent that they make Snyder appear better than he is. He IS NOT good. But the nitpicking of that scene exposes militant Snyder haters as genuinely and unironically low IQ.
It's not bait. The Snyder hate is understandable on one level, or more so the criticism people have for his movies. But the sheer obsession of it and the fact that anti-Snyder posters are always super hostile, like making fun of his dead daughter and shit like that, is weird.
There has to be a bigger reason for it that simply escapes me.
I hate Snyder but I have never made fun of his daughter
What makes it not fine?
If Batman was killing evil people why didn't he kill Joker?
the martha scene makes perfect sense, people just apply too much real-world logic and fail to get that batman is mentally ill
in a comic book it would make sense
The Martha bit wasnt even the worst shit in this movie lol. Is he going to explain why Mark Zuckerberg lex luthor was actually good and not just him loving the social network.
If you're having a bad day, remember that this man was killed while working and resurrected so he could keep working.
Why do people pretend MoS, BvS and ZSJL were bad?