Fakku already legally sells uncensored H-manga including e-girl in america. In fact, when Fakku went legit, there was major doomposting on Cinemaphile and they had to full on do the PR shit and note that they have cleared with legal etc.
>In fact, when Fakku went legit, there was major doomposting on Cinemaphile and they had to full on do the PR shit and note that they have cleared with legal etc.
Isn't the whole deal with US obscenity laws that they are inherently subjective
Fakku is based in Oregon, literally the only US state to abolish their obscenity laws. That is not a fricking accident.
Federal obscenity prosecutions have basically not happened since Bush due to federal fears that they'd inevitably walk into a 1st amendment challenge and get the federal laws tossed and due to determinations that funding and manpower would be better directed going after CP.
It's more that the US doesn't have any federal obscenity laws, so they're all based on what state you're in.
So if you live in an extremely liberal state like, say, California, or Massachusetts, you can get pretty much whatever you want published.
>It's more that the US doesn't have any federal obscenity laws
We do though.
It's more that the US doesn't have any federal obscenity laws, so they're all based on what state you're in.
So if you live in an extremely liberal state like, say, California, or Massachusetts, you can get pretty much whatever you want published.
Fakku is based in Oregon, literally the only US state to abolish their obscenity laws. That is not a fricking accident.
Federal obscenity prosecutions have basically not happened since Bush due to federal fears that they'd inevitably walk into a 1st amendment challenge and get the federal laws tossed and due to determinations that funding and manpower would be better directed going after CP.
[...] >It's more that the US doesn't have any federal obscenity laws
We do though.
Also, while we're on the subject, e-girl is hardly the only thing that can be found "obscene". Fricking Urotsukidoji famously got someone slapped with obscenity charges.
Basically selling any fetish porn in the US could be argued to be illegal by a prosecutor looking to ruin someone's day. Probably in Texas.
It's more that the US doesn't have any federal obscenity laws, so they're all based on what state you're in.
So if you live in an extremely liberal state like, say, California, or Massachusetts, you can get pretty much whatever you want published.
It's still astounding to me how no one at DC could see how bad of a business decision it was to make Jon Kent LGBT. If you want to draw in new readers, particularly young boys, you can't make the focal male character gay or bi or any of that. That's just the way it is. Male readers aren't going to go out of their way to support gay/bi male characters. Their only interest in the LGBT stuff is when two cute girls are making out. The only exception I've seen is Deadpool, who is pansexual, but the movie treats that as a punchline and no one really takes it seriously. I guess DC thought they could chase fujobucks but they put Jon with that wet blanket pink-haired frick who no one cares about. It's just crazy how they've mismanaged these new characters.
I'm not wrong. Jon Kent lost practically all of his popularity overnight. Tom Taylor can lie through his teeth all he wants, but sales for Jon's book dropped after it was revealed he was into dudes. It doesn't help that Jon is currently being drawn as gay as possible. You all know the artist I'm talking about.
Bendis aging was the start. Turning gay was the final nail in the coffin. Inwouldn't habe problem with them making Jon bi, but problem is him being gay (not even bi because kissing girls is haram for bi men) is his whole schtick.
>Jon Kent was already spiraling downwards by the time Tom Taylor revealed he was gay. It was a hail mary to try to save a failing comic.
4th reprint of the omni, you lying fricking homosexual.
Aging him up was the stupid part he was the first character in ages that readers had latched onto so they cut him away from his supporting cast and changed everything people liked about him
I'm sure there are people at DC who knew it was a horrible idea but couldn't speak up against it to not be labeled bigoted. That's how it usually goes in these organizations, the sane people keep their heads down and either leave the company or quietly collect a paycheck while doing the bare minimum required of them.
DC and Marvel editorials really have no idea what yaoi or yuri fans want.
They have gone HARD on having multiple gay books out but they are written for "support and representation" rather than to actually appeal to the readers of this sort of stuff.
You can't just make a character gay and instantly put it in a committed loving relationship. That's not ROMANTIC writing you stupid fricks.
There's no angst, rivalry, passion, etc.
Or they just make the character a bawd that kisses anyone like Iceman now is.
Those frickers write like they never read a romance story.
So not only are their books unappealing to regular readers, they are not actually going to interest the readers that like yaoi and yuri.
Its honestly amazing how the most questionable Yaoi/Yuri has more romance and love than whatever the frick comics are doing.
Even Junjo Romantica looks like a masterpiece compared to gay couples in comics.
Because the characters in yaoi/yuri are written as actual characters who are gay, while the ones in western stuff are mascots performing the act of Being Gay.
>Putting him into a love triangle with a guy and a girl would have appeased almost everyone but they immediately went full gay.
The fact that you think adding a female love interest to a love triangle with another male would suddenly bring back the MAJORITY HETEROSEXUAL READERSHIP is pretty funny.
This. You don't reset to 0 if you frick one dude and one chick, they don't cancel each other out. If you ever suck one dick you're gay, even if you frick a thousand chicks afterwards.
Nobody cares except people like you who are obsessed with gay sex
6 months ago
Anonymous
t. gayfer
6 months ago
Anonymous
Jon Kent and the now homosexual Alan Scott say otherwise anon.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Nobody remembers Gay Tim and his comic with incredibly bad art.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Oh, they remember it. The news made sure if it tell us that Robin had come out of the closet when it happened.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Everyone knows Tim as the gay one now.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>Nobody remembers Gay Tim
Wrong. It's the opposite. He's now only known as the Gay Tim. His decades of straight comics just vanished, as if they never happened. That's why turning characters gay is so poisonous. Because forever after they'll be known as just "that token gay" and be rejected by the majority audience.
6 months ago
Anonymous
The same collection of insane homophobes throwing shit everywhere during their daily I Hate Gays tirades doesn’t matter.
It's like you've never read any romance manga. There wouldn't have been any dicksucking. Just blushes, awkward situations and maybe some hand holding if they're feeling bold.
Doing it now wouldn't change anything. Doing it from the start would have. Both sides will just delude themselves into thinking their ship is the one true ship. Keep the "will they-won't they" going until the next big status quo shake up event to see which ship is the most popular and go with that. Have the other character disappear and have Jon sometimes remark about how he feels like "something is missing".
>Doing it from the start would have.
It really wouldn’t have. Nobody but bisexual men think of themselves as a catch, which is why it’s hard to pitch it to heterosexual readers.
>maybe if we throw a girl in there, they’ll forgot the fact that Superman’s son LOVES SUCKING wiener AND GETTING FRICKED UP THE ASS
lol
6 months ago
Anonymous
Says the person who quite literally spends more time imagining anal sex, big throbbing veiny dicks going into men’s mouths and whatever other gay kink than an actual average gay dude does.
6 months ago
Anonymous
If they'd done it like that you'd be here arguing that the one time Jon and the guy went skinny dipping in the lake was just boys doing very platonic boy things and how Jon carrying the girl home trough the pouring rain after she had sprained her ankle (obviously in a now see-trough dress) was obviously a sign of true romance.
It's like you guys can't even into romance. There is no sex, just situations that could be interpreted as arousing.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Nobody wants your gay romance anon.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Nobody wants a story about a bisexual superhero’s love angst.
Yeah its because they rush it out the door with no thought or effort and most of the time the guy writing its not even gay or a lesbians or whatever sexuality they are trying to write the sad thing is they were infinitely better at this shit decades ago when being seen as gay or lesbian was viewed way harsher then it is today.
Supersons wasn't any good and the fact that Bendis has made you autists seeth so much for years now almost makes up for him creating Miles Morales.
Supersons was SHIT and you gay shota morons wouldn't stop bringing it up in EVERY thread, I'm so glad you're miserable now. You'll NEVER have the old Jon Kent back.
Are you really THAT suprised? Do you just go into every Jon Kent thread and seethe that the overall consensus that DC made a mistake? We don't need Jon Kent anymore, we havent for a long time. Cinemaphile will take every opportunity to shit on that mistake Bendis and Taylor made. Forever smearing thier legacy in infamy.
And if DC goes down with that mistake. Fine by us, no skin off our nose.
Showing full on breasts willy nilly seems like it'd have the same effect on Twitch, just full on nude all over the place, but it would settle down as people got it out of their system.
Western Comics have been a dead genre for like fricking 30 years.
Its way too hard for the average kid to just pick up a spiderman book and read it.
So why not read Naruto instead, way easier. Better art, better stories, way better value.
Western media literally can not compete the way it currently is.
The bubble started to burst in 1993. By 1996 nearly all the indie publishers that popped up in the 80s were dead. If he's jumping the gun, it's only by 3 years.
>Better art, better stories, >naruto
lol
that being said Western floppies are a terrible format and the comics are incompressible for new people . Manga is awful even compared to capeshit but they are easier to get into and you have a better format .
>but Naruto (& manga in general) easily mog every comic being made rn
Not even. I'd say Naruto is on par with the slop that gets made these days because shonen is slop.
>You must be delusional if you think anything in say current Spider-Man can even compare to the Zabuza arc
Zabuza arc was the only good thing about Naruto and Spider-Man sucks. He's carried entirely by his movies.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Nah. Naruto declines pretty late into its run. Even then, the final battle and actual epilogue are great.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>Naruto declines pretty late into its run
Naruto declines after the Zabuza arc, but it's not the world's end. It worsens around the end of the Chuuni exams where Sauske joins Orochimaru for contrived reasons, picks up a little bit due to that fight with Naruto at the waterfall valley, and then declines further with Shippudden.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Nah. Sasuke leaves the Leaf because he's seething that Naruto is getting stronger. Itachi kicking his shit in is what makes him go. Other than the cast becoming irrelevant, Shippuden is fine until the 4th war arc.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>Sasuke leaves the Leaf because he's seething that Naruto is getting stronger. Itachi kicking his shit in is what makes him go.
Yes, and it was the most contrived bullshit ever.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Not really. He believed he was getting stronger. Then Naruto almost surpassed him, and his lifes goal beats him into a pulp. He wanted more power quickly since he believed staying in the Leaf wasn't enough. He even tries fighting Naruto and gets assmad when his attacks are clearly superior.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>Man, I'm not getting stronger. Think Sasuke, what should you do? Train and get better with friends like how Naruto did, or break all my ties, become a terrorist, and join up that murderous pedophile motherfricker and his Joseph Mengele boyfriend?
Again, the most contrived bullshit ever.
6 months ago
Anonymous
No, because he did get stronger. When Shippuden starts, he is much stronger than Naruto. He was proven right.
6 months ago
Anonymous
The fact that the manga took these expeeimental turns show you its quality and potential.
Naruto had a lot of great arcs, at least post-shippuden.
I can't think of a single arc that was bad/boring now that I think about it.
6 months ago
Anonymous
I simply can't bother to care about rabbit b***h, even Madara was starting to get tiring with his bullshit, mogging all the kage without trying was jumping the shark. At least it gave us Night Guy kino
Why do floppies need to be filled with homosexualry to kill them just so you homosexuals can write OGNs? Why can’t they just let floppies be for straight people and you can go make your homosexual OGNs and leave us actually fans alone?
Anyone saying floppies are still the single most sustainable format of comics, outside of dogman and secondary release manga which already made money in Japan, is a moron or a shill for gay comics.
If the floppies stopped being gay and BIPOC infested they’d sell better to the people still going to LCS. Gay BIPOC will never go to LCS because they don’t spend money. So why shouldn’t they just stop killing a format to force a format change?
Just make both for the audiences that pay for them.
I'm not buying any floppy as long as they are this expensive and not even a full story, no matter how straight and white it is. I didn't buy them as a kid in the 2000s for the same reason.
>So why not read Naruto instead, way easier. Better art, better stories, way better value.
you also need five billy bookshelves to collected all 3456 volumes of naruto which is probably more than a few of the good collected runs of spiderman.
People always seem to boast about reading manga is just a case of starting from chapter one with no spin off series or what ifs or seasonal annuals but they forget how long running some of the best manga series are
>probably more than a few of the good collected runs of spiderman.
Which ones are those? You and I know: does the random causal fan know? Meanwhile, if a person knows they want to read 'Naruto,c they just start on chapter one, and then stop when they get bored. It is simple and easy. The entire issue is really simple: the comic industry would rather die than change.
>reboot Batman #1 >only have one writer and one artist on it for the next 5+ years >weekly or bi-weekly as opposed to monthly >during this time have no spinoffs of other Batman characters that could potentially confuse readers on Batman’s story run
It’s just not possible
>Is that really why you would want to change the artist and writer
Yes. Garth Ennis worked on Hellbazer for four years. The first two years were great because Vertigo hadn't existed yet, meaning Ennis had a leash to his neck and a revolving door of artists to keep the art fluid and interesting. Then after the two year mark, Hellblazer became a Vertgio title, Ennis' writing quality dipped and Steve "FRANKface" Dillon became his artist. The writing quality dipped because Ennis grew bored and desperately wanted to break out and do his own thing.
Another example: Sean Phillips was one of the greatest lesser-known artists of the late 80s and early 90s in comics. He could make art like pic and it was lovely, He wasn't working constantly, meaning his work was something of a treat. Then he became the artist of Hellblazer from 1994-1999 and you never saw anything like pic again because he had a deadline to meet.
>comics >nothing matters in a story because it will all get rebooted until the end of time forever in an endless cycle >nobody stays invested, industry dies >manga >IN MOST MANGA, everything matters because it has one run which is the definitive canon that doesn't change ever >industry thrives to this day
Hmm
The worst part is that they really could remedy this by just focusing more on publishing chronological omnibuses. There's a lot out there now, but it somehow still feels half-assed.
For example, a lot of Bronze Age shit remains uncollected because Bronze Age material requires more royalties or something. Also, it looks like they spread themselves too thin already; why start publishing Silver Age omnibuses when you haven't even finished the Golden Age omnibuses (Superman, for example)? They should just focus on reprinting the older material until they're caught up with the new shit instead of just collecting every vaguely popular modern storyline.
Forget manga even anon, it's about to enter the manhwa era. I find even a chapter where basically nothing happens to be better in one of the more decent series than any comic nowadays. And that's before you even get into the fights being better than comics can be.
Yeah I know most of it's basically the same slop repeated with the same cliches but some series are just 10/10 for a weekly released comic.
Just watch solo leveling usher in the new age of animated shows and then the ORV movie will get more stuff live action and comics will literally be forgotten in favour of the newest hollywood murim/tower grinding hunter demon king reincarnated from harlem blockbuster.
Kids of an age where they're interested in capeshit (5-8) won't read comics. This leaves teens and adults. Teens will read manga because manga is fresh and they already grew tired of capeshit years ago. Older teens and adults already know all about Spider-man, Aunt May and all that shit. Some adults will collect everything because they have autism and/or treat comics as an investment. You already know that Batman's parents were shot and he got so salty he became Batman, then threw some homosexual in a vat of acid and he got the Joker. Everyone knows that Superman is from planet Krypton which is filled with a mineral that hurts his race somehow, and he came to earth to work as Clark Kent at a newspaper. Everyone knows everything about these characters who will never, ever change or die and the stories don't have any memorable beats except the origin shit which isn't even interesting.
Meanwhile a manga comes out this year and you go"oh what's this manga" and check it out. And you have an industry that absolutely refuses to do anything new or different except trooning out the same boring shit you don't wanna read.
capeshit's everywhere tho. I think it's not just capeshit but there's zero comics for kids of that demographic. And that's really the keyword here: demographic.
American comics dont sell to age groups. They sell IP's. This is the poison i think cause the demo is def there. Check Dogman and fricking.... tyler perry. He got big making content for what was an unserviced demo. I dont care for his work but there's something to pay attention there.
another example is teen titans vs teen titans go. The demo for the first TT was muddied and marketers didnt know who to advert to. TT Go has an obvious demo and has become the longest running cartoon network show in it's history along with the license to print money on merch and licensing.
Stock more than capeshit floppies. Stop devoting space to funkoshits.
Capeshit just needs to rebrand with everything starting over with Vol 1 and sticking to it. No more superman #1515 or having to read batman #141 then detective comics #5515 to know what the frick is going on. Zoomers are moronic, they like manga because you buy Naruto 1-28 and it's easy to understand.
Market for morons if you want a wide install base.
They keep trying to reboot, but it never works because they keep the exact same authors and the exact same schedules and the exact same production pipeline. The only way to salvage the situation is not with yet another New52/Marvel NOW, it's giving talented fresh blood the time, money, and resources to make something new. But who is going to do that for Marvel and DC when they could just write their own thing?
The endless reboots are why we're here in the first place. Notice how nobody has a problem starting Naruto or Jojo at volume 1 and then just reading through to volume 50 or whatever. It's only moronic American capeshit that feels people can't count past 3 so they renumber the volumes every year. Go on Amazon and tell me how many Batman volume 1s there are. It's a fricking joke
Capeshit like Marvel and DC dying is the only way for the comic industry to be saved as they destroyed the industry by spamming one tired and never that great genre over 80 years
Those two companies dying is a good thing
Boys and manchildren read capeshit for escapism. It is literally the only purpose of writing your super duper gary stu with all the powers that is intrinsically good and beats all the designated evil people. You want the protags to be blank self-inserts and gay/bisexual men are only 5% of boys.
That said, it is not like boys were going to the comic book store and spending 5 dollars on comic books when they could be playing videogames, or watching Logan Paul or some other Youtuber
>You want the protags to be blank self-inserts and gay/bisexual men are only 5% of boys.
I wouldn't go quite that far. Some of the most popular heroes have distinct personalities. You're not going to confuse Spider-Man or Thor or Superman and Batman. But the main male hero needs to share some superficial traits with the demographic you're chasing. In the case of men, it's heterosexuality. It's like you said: gay/bi men are a low percentage of the population. It doesn't make sense to market a flagship character to them.
>I need a heterosexuality in my hero comics, otherwise I can’t read it because uhhhh it’s the hyper important relatability factor even though sex is literally the least interesting thing to zoomers in entertainment
Zoomers only say they want less sex in media because it’s all weird, gay shit now. If they were getting what we got in the 90s and 00s, they’d love it.
Zoomers say they want less sex in their media because they are fundamentally uncomfortable with intimacy due to an overexposure of porn from a young age, either purposefully or accidentally. They make weird political associations with porn because of their discomfort of it.
Isn't it more because American is super purity and shames people who enjoy lustful things.
You don't see Europe or Japan having these issues.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Yes, that's an American thing too. But if you look at American Zoomers they are supportive of sex workers, weirdly, but they aren't supportive of porn existing. And the issue they site is people being exposed to porn, not porn in of itself.
>They know their demographic.
This. Manga directly appeals to specific genres and its fans. That is much easier to do and it gives manga more variety. DC and Marvel try to appeal to everyone
He’s not wrong, Marvel and DC are just doing it in the most moronic way possible. They try to cram every single demographic into every single book and instead the appeal to no one since each of those demographics will have to deal with the aspects they want being tangled in the aspects they don’t want. Meanwhile, Shueisha has Jump, but they also have magazines for the other demographics since they know different audiences have different tastes.
>DC and Marvel try to appeal to everyone
They only try to appeal to new readers, throwing their existing fanbase under the bus because they know they will buy their comics anyway
>Sexy western stuff always has way more appeal
You must be using some strange definition of "appeal" that I've never heard.
There's a reason you'll never see a western "sexy comic" in the top sellers in America, yet stuff like Nagatoro and Sono Bisque Doll show up pretty regularly.
Sex sells but it's nauseating to see the same face template over and over again.
Sexy western stuff always has way more appeal because it's varied
This stuff about sex is bullshit and a way to discount the whole discussion into porn or pandering to coomers. Shit being sexy or not sexy is not the reason why Western comics are shit or why manga is selling. Women looking like trannies and spewing fourth wave feminist nonsense isn't just not sexy, it's insufferable and boring and it beats you over the head instead of entertaining. The whole thing is that people are buying this shit with cash to get some entertainment from it. The only people who are able to buy this shit and feel something positive from it are hardcore lefties who live a sheltered life and absolutely must virtue signal on how they bought X comic to support the LGBT. Nobody else gives a fricking frick. I want to buy comics to be entertained and so do most normal people. It's not about politics or whether I disagree with gender nonsense or women's rights or any other shit western comics are about these days, this shit is just BORING. This is BORING. I can't imagine looking at a comic and seeing "Superman reveals he's GAY!!!!!!" and feeling all excited, WHAT A TWIST! WAOW I ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO BUY THIS COMIC, I don't give a frick about Superman already because he's fricking boring, making him gay doesn't make him any less boring. This is literally everything that Western comics are about. Boring character is now black or gay. You read 2 lines of dialogue and you wanna literally fricking gouge your eyes out because they're written by people who aren't even human. The people who write dialogue in Western comics are less relatable than shut-in Japanese hikikomori who draw manga, at least they say relatable shit like "I must go on no matter what, even if it costs me everything!" you understand and feel something when you read this sort of drivel, but when a character goes like "oh Katherinx this strawberry frappuccino really makes me feel empowered with feminist vibes. How's your gender today?" I don't wanna read anymore, I don't care.
>I can't imagine looking at a comic and seeing "Superman reveals he's GAY!!!!!!" and feeling all excited, WHAT A TWIST! WAOW I ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO BUY THIS COMIC
Reading Western comics is functionally the same as reading People magazine. No substance and just a bunch of useless text churned out about which narcissists are having sex with each other and what they're identifying as this week. Actually, it's even more pathetic because the gossip is about fictional characters in hideous spandex costumes, not even real celebrities.
You mean when you meet your friends you don't actually greet them by calling them out on their bigotry and correct their wrongthink? Just what kind of trump-voting bigot are you?
>The whole thing is that people are buying this shit with cash to get some entertainment from it. The only people who are able to buy this shit and feel something positive from it are hardcore lefties who live a sheltered life and absolutely must virtue signal on how they bought X comic to support the LGBT.
Pretty much.
This industry is obsessed with exclusively appealing to their friends and no one else.
It's gotten so bad that a lot of women in comics are outright incapable of writing a story that can be enjoyed by men who aren't their friends/ilk.
I hate the whole thing about discounting everything on sex and boobs when a woman in Japan made Full Metal Alchemist which is one of the most beloved series of the past few decades. It's not like Western comics are more mature than anime in any way so don't give me shit about shonen.
Make our own comics. Make good comics. Succeed. That's literally it barring regulations but media doesn't need tons of money to find eyes anymore it just needs the public's attention
>Make our own comics. Make good comics. Succeed.
This is also bullshit because it's literally impossible to succeed when the industry refuses to publish anyone. Sadly if you want to make new media you need a push, marketing, a publisher behind you. Even shit like OPM which started off as a webcomic was supported by a healthy environment where new things are sought after and you have opportunity for making something that people wanna read. The whole industry in the West works extremely hard to push only friends of friends, writers are all a bunch of heavily networked people in East Coast America who have their own bizarre world view and think all the normal people in the rest of the world are Nazis. In the end it all boils down to nepotism. In Japan, like it or not, it's nowhere near good, but at least the market is shaped like a market with a consumer in mind instead of a clique of friends who suck each other off.
It's LITERALLY impossible to make it in the West with comics unless you network with capeshit writers to draw their frappuccino stories or you do porn. The fact that only porn can sell in the West if you're a nobody is a symptom of a heavily gatekept industry that gives 0 visibility and does 0 scouting for interesting shit to publish.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>IT’S IMPOSSIBLE
It’s not. You’re just making up excuses because it’s easier to just be a whiny cuny who b***hes about everything than actually do anything
6 months ago
Anonymous
What have you made? How many publishers have you contacted? Making it online from the ground up is literally impossible unless you prostitute yourself out for years on the very trends that are killing western comics and/or draw porn. It's literally impossible.
Usually i try to look at the positive side of things when it comes to western comics but DC's determination on pushing average boobs power girl got me down so frick western comics frick em all
They've had lagging sales since before you were born and they don't care because they make their money from the media and merchandise. Comics are made to just farm ips. These threads are just blatant east vs West threads by the same morons who think Marvel and DC are competing when manga when the reality is the opposite
>they don't care because they make their money from the media and merchandise.
What merchandise? And their movies are bombing. There's nothing of value left.
>media
Is more than just movies you mouthbreathing moron. It includes tv, videogames, ect.
>merchandise
Anything you see with a batman or superman symbol or motif is merchandise and it makes billions annually. Batman alone bring in over 10 billion in sales
>Is more than just movies you mouthbreathing moron. It includes tv, videogames, ect.
Uh-hu...what successful capeshit vidya have we had in the last 5 years?
This may be hard for pearlized brain to understand but gaming is broader than just shit you play on a console or PC. Mobile games, collaboration with other games like Fortnite. It's not not just stand alone games like Arkham.
You can literally fill a cart at Walmart with Batman shit or Spider-Man shit, it’s all over the store. Comics are only published to protect the trademarks on that junk.
Except the media is bombing and the merch isn’t selling. The merch is action figures, toys. And you know who buys those? Boys. You think boys are running to the store, begging their mom or dad to buy them the gay hero action figure? Or the girl boss action figure? Frick no.
Fun fact, Out of the 6 pillars of morality did you know the majority of the left ignore loyalty, authority, and sanctity.
Thought that was a neat little bit of quirky information.
Everyone is bigots. Unironically. People have ten thousand years of evolution telling them to hate everything that is different and no amount of propaganda will ever change human nature. Simple as.
Increase quality. Low effort cheap as frick shit doesn't fly with the kids. > seen the new stuff? it's shit, right
Aaand nobody even bothers to buy and check for himself.
I can't remember reading a comic made last decade. One look is enough to say "no, thanks".
I don't know what you can do to save it, but the big two have signaled they don't want to change and deny the problem exists, while retailers who are complaining don't seem to have the conviction to walk away. It doesn't seem wise to help people who won't help themselves.
>IT’S DYING >IT’S DYING I SWEAR >IT’S DYING THIS TIME I’M SURE >IT’S DYING I KNOW IT IS >IT’S DYING BECAUSE IT FEELS RIGHT >IT’S DYING BECAUSE I CANNOT BE WRONG AGAIN ABOUT THIS >IT’S DYING LIKE I HAVE KEPT SAYING FOR YEARS AND REPEATEDLY WAS PROVEN WRONG BUT THIS TIME IS DIFFERENT >IT’S DYING. IT. JUST. IS.
Any minute now. This time it’s totally gonna happen.
In 1908, caramels were the most popular candy in the United States.
In 1950, 50% of all Americans were smokers.
In 1975, the biggest toy craze was Star Wars action figures.
Would anyone call these living industries today? Do you need to fricking see the last buyer of the last cigarette die at age 112 before you say an industry is dead?
>That's a direct concession by WB that they're not good enough to compete with Eastern animators.
I mean senior animators get paid $500/month and have to live in subsidized low-income apartments. And they still won't quit their jobs.
Fricking hilarious how weebs keep coming to a board about western comics and cartoons for some reason with the same shitty threads. Like why are you so I secure over liking weebshit you obsess over western comics?
I don't even read Manga, but I still admit it is superior to comics, as it would be impossible for anything to be worse than modern day comics. >Verification not required
I'm sure WBD's $48 billion in equity will be great against their $60+ billion in debt.
Stick to talking about dudes in tights.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>debt
Almost every major company has debt, even Microsoft has debt. Debt isn't a bad thing. Please stop showing how little you know
6 months ago
Anonymous
>Having $60+ billion in debt that you aren't paying off at all while losing $8+ billion a year because your company is run by morons isn't a bad thing
Again, stick to talking about men in tights.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Please you dumb moron, just stop. No company makes it a point to pay off debt. Debt is their credit rating and tax liability, it benefits them to have debt. Also majority of that debt is from the recent merger by Discovery
6 months ago
Anonymous
You fricking moron, debt benefits them if they're MAKING MONEY and pleasing their shareholders.
And WBD's credit rating is fricking shit right now for such a large company.
If they're losing $8 billion a year and have a poor outlook for the next decade, no, having lots of debt doesn't help them you stupid frick, hence why AT&T chose to offload all their debt onto Discovery to begin with when they sold WB.
6 months ago
Anonymous
$60 billion in debt is enormous, you do realise that debt means you have to pay interest
And WB does NOT have anywhere near Microsoft amounts of revenue, or money in the bank
>Net Income -7.29 billion
lel, these companies are nothing but piles of debt at this point, and to further their misery, they're killing the value of their IP by rebooting it as woke shit
>Cinemaphile was created as an unofficial English-language counterpart to the Japanese imageboard Futaba Channel, also known as 2chan, and its first boards were originally used for posting images and discussion related to anime.
Tell me where it says Cinemaphile is a website dedicated to weeb shit. Tell me why this means weeb homosexuals can be homosexuals outside of their containment board. Tell me if moot is still the owner
for one thing, reliance on specialist destination outlets is the biggest factor in keeping people from making impulse purchases
nobody's gonna go on a whim to that strip mall on the edge of town where the guys who don't wash hang out, and the big comic shops are by no means the majority since 1993 (but they will be the last survivors as they've likely got sufficient capital to pivot to sales of other shit to the same crowd)
say you go from selling 50 titles a month via 3500 LCS at an average revenue of $3.5m (Marvel's Feb 2022 is the model here, but picked at random) and $5,833 average revenue per title individually; you're barely selling 2 copies of each title in every store (in real terms this means most stores simply never order some of your titles, meaning they aren't worth targeting as audience)
but to then go to those 3500 LCS and the 18000 newsstands in the US - where people are still going anyway, let alone the more general retailers that also stock periodicals - potentially opens your impulse buy sales to double what you're already selling
this is hard to quantify and wouldn't work with 50 titles, because newsstands won't carry that many a month without proof of demand, but if you had even 8/month it could still boost sales massively over what's currently happening
the question is whether cutting the line to 8/month (which also saves on costs but does mean dropping a lot of employees) can produce works which have mass appeal to make up for those lost sales, and whether your LCS buyers will continue to buy those 8/month (realistically most are probably buying 8/month now but the plurality of titles has them spoiled for choice to the point that different stores are effectively buying different 8/month in; combining/dropping them may not be popular)
what if they made a big book every month that wasnt on glossy stock or whatever to safe money and it printed some comics that came out last month all in one bunch so people who don't want to drive to the store 4 times a month to grab their pull list can grab the bigger book the month later to get their story
Nobody would buy it. Because it would either be half full of homosexual/POC shit or it would be half full of poorly drawn trash nobody actually wants.
Anthologies don’t work because the product is divisive. The reason it works in Japan is because they try to entertain rather than divide. There’s a sincerity to their work that is focused on creation not denigration and instigation.
The time to do print anthologies may have passed. It's not that the idea wouldn't work, it's just that there is a better alternative - a free digital magazine. Anthologies, at least the way the Japanese implement them, are typically loss leaders. They are sold at cost. So doing a free digital magazine would be less of a hassle, and potentially reach a far bigger audience.
The only real argument for the big 2 to pursue a print anthology is to keep the direct market in business, so that there is a robust retail outlet for their collected trades. But by all appearances, the people in control at the big 2 want the DM dead and sell through bookstores, so there's little motivation to do it.
Imagine an alternate history where the hays code and comics code doesn't exist would american comics and cartoons be as lewd as japanese manga and anime?
They are desperate. Alot of them pretend to be Batgays too. It’s fricking pathetic. They rather burn everything to the ground and send payed shills to every corner of the internet than change. Shit company.
Imagine a drug addicted 40 year old who looks like she used to suck dick for cheap pot. Then imagine she did a DBZ fusion dance with Roz from Monsters Inc. then you kinda have a clue of what she looks like.
And of course she hates comics made for straight people and loves BIPOC LTBG propaganda comics
Almost every major company has debt, even Microsoft has debt. Debt isn't a bad thing. Please stop showing how little you know
Please you dumb moron, just stop. No company makes it a point to pay off debt. Debt is their credit rating and tax liability, it benefits them to have debt. Also majority of that debt is from the recent merger by Discovery
You are correct that it's not about debt by itself, but anon gave a D/E ratio for an industry that averages closer to .9, and their credit rating reflects that.
And do you have confidence WB/Disco's plan?
what the frick is a heidi mcdonald
Former big 2 editor, current rag writer. A thing that is at least 40 percent milkshake.
What is a "milkshake"? A political leftist activist who would probably be throwing one laced with concrete at a protest, or is it slang for something else?
A handful of women at working at Marvel went out for milkshakes for an occasion I can’t remember and posted a selfie of it and certain comic guys have been melting down about it ever since
hard to say honestly. but if dc and marvel want to appeal to a female demographic like they want too then they should take inspiration form magical girl manga
Don't worry, I'm sure the women, ethnic minorities, and LBGTA+ community will someday replace the dying Straight Male demographic that DC and Marvel desperately wants to get rid of and cater to now instead the audience that always bought their product. We just want to wait a little bit longer. Trust, anon.
The silly thing is they’d be more apt to buy OGNs and digital comics. If they just stopped making their paper backs and book store releases collected versions of floppies and focused each release format on the fans of each they’d thrive in both markets.
LCS sales would explode if they didn’t all get collected within a year and were focused on being written for non-woke readers. Paperbacks would sell better if they weren’t collections and were instead all original and could only be bought in bookstores or online for good prices. LCSs already can barely sell trades because they sell sticker price rather than online discount prices.
If they packaged entire arcs quarterly in giant sized reprints with prestige binding and a cheaper per page costs for LCS’s rather than making them paper backs for bookstores they’d also sell well and everyone wins.
Instead they insist on killing the floppy market out of spite just so they can then subsidize some of their printing and distribution costs on paper backs which allows them to sell them for cheap to big accounts like B&N and Amazon. Essentially forcing all of the floppies to cater to a secondary release audience who may or may not buy any of it and especially when you get to paperback releases any volume past 1 or 2 gets dismal returns because if you miss volume 1 of a paperback release for an ongoing you will not buy beyond that. If you make sure to buy 1-3 of a run and then 4 gets under printed and you never get to finish it because they restart the rerelease in an “absolute” format or just put out an Omni you’ll never return to any of them at all which is why their trade departments are horrible.
TLDR; Anything sold in paper back format should be self-contained and original to that format
Anything sold in the floppy/ongoing format should never be collected in paper back and should only ever get Floppy exclusive prestige bound giants for yearly collection to satiate “trade waiters”.
I don't think so. When normies pick up a cool-looking Batman or Spider-Man book at the bookstore, do you think they care whether it's an original graphic novel or a collection of previously-released floppies? There's no difference to most people. Floppies would die completely if they weren't collected, not the other way around.
>When normies pick up a cool-looking Batman or Spider-Man book at the bookstore, do you think they care whether it's an original graphic novel or a collection of previously-released floppies? There's no difference to most people
Not true at all. You completely ignored my reasoning for your shitpost, Ren. If they don’t get a complete story - since runs almost never closure of any sort at the end of individual 6-20 issue arcs -and they can’t get volume 2 or beyond because of under printing they’ll never buy another. They’re left unfulfilled and either read for free or stop reading them at all.
>Floppies would die completely if they weren't collected, not the other way around.
There is zero logic to this statement at all, it’s completely antithetical to consumer behavior. Streaming, and protracted home release before it, cutting into box office releases for two decades has proven this in the film market and floppy sales are similarly effected by people not finding worth in spending 4-5 times 6-8 for a trades worth of comics if they can just buy it twio or three times a year.
Nothing you said is based in reality you’re here to push your divisive homosexualry and derail and actual discussion.
>Floppies would die completely if they weren't collected, not the other way around.
What the frick? It IS the other way around. If sales are so low on a monthly comic and there's no other way they can see to recoup it, then they don't bother reprinting it in a TPB.
Original anon here, so NTA, the point I was making is that floppy sales are hurt by trades existing. “Trade waiters” would need to shit or get off the pot if they had nothing to “wait” for any more. I reckon more would start buying than giving up the format. Or they’d buy the giants I proposed and they’d become giant-waiters. But allowing them to wait for trades that are already a discounted release format and then only buy them on sale has made them less likely to spend monthly.
As it stands while I hate them I understand why trade waiters wait.
>Anything sold in paper back format should be self-contained and original to that format >Anything sold in the floppy/ongoing format should never be collected in paper back and should only ever get Floppy exclusive prestige bound giants for yearly collection to satiate “trade waiters”.
If nothing else we’d at least see which product sells better and which market is thriving more.
For manga, any new series is put on the front cover of the magazine and at the top of the table of contents. So everyone sees it and can read it. From their it can grow fans.
They need better marketing to pursue new audiences. The strategy they're on now is good, since their old audience will literally die out within a few decades, but they aren't doing enough to attract all the readers of girl's love and boy's love manga.
>within a few decades
It’s wild you think that’s worth ignoring as if those aren’t the people with the most expendable income. Sure,instead they should focus on a demographic with no expendable income and zero propensity to spend what little money they do have.
What a moronic take, kwanza. have a nice day. Stream it. I’ll tip and subscribe.
>but they aren't doing enough to attract all the readers of girl's love and boy's love manga.
Anon, they're literally never, ever going to attract that audience because that audience wants cute characters, which the big 2 is incapable of providing.
Really, they waited to long to try any real new strategy to attract new audiences, all the potential audiences they could have pivoted to are better served elsewhere these days.
>because that audience wants cute characters, which the big 2 is incapable of providing.
There are tens of thousands of artists posting on Tumblr, Twitter, etc. all the time. They could hire any of them to make cute chibi characters if they wanted to.
The people buying manga, like those buying comics, are 20-50 years old. The people reading manga for free online, like comics, are 12-40. While there is some overlap the people reading for free do not have the income to spend on anything.
What was once a strength, the diversity of authors and writers capable of telling and showing a huge variety of stories about all these different characters, is now a weakness. Each writer comes in trying to make their permanent mark in the legacy of the character or franchise, meaning they do more and more to upend, rewrite, or complicate what was already there so that they stand out. What makes it worse is that the reaction to the Hal Jordan issue convinced the editors that you cannot pass on a legacy to a new character and have to keep the same characters, looking the same age, living the same life, for 50 years and counting.
You know, if American superhero comics were healthy they could've just transitioned to a fully digital model and found a massive internet audience. Why didn't they during the webcomic boom?
WHO? I feel like I see this schizo shit way more often now, people will just attribute random posts to real people, at least I hope they are real, who the frick Ren supposed to be
No really this is the schizo shit I mean, genuinely who is Ren? Is he real? Can you prove it? This shit happens so often on this site now, it's actually insane.
it could survive as a niche thing for boomers. they can never go mainstream again anyway because zoomers and the younger audience only read manga. its fricking impossible to convert manga readers into comic readers.
tldr dont ask too much. think about surviving as a niche industry.
We can't honestly. The direct market is done for and will only bring comics down with it if they stay with it. I'm not happy to see them go but that's just reality
Manga absolutely decimates comics in every way possible. It's like throwing a toddler into the ring with a heavy-weight boxer. Manga eats Kobe steak, comics eat shit.
because unless you are a over 50yo boomer such "everything must be western" people dont exist today. giving that the comic/cartoon industry deserves to die.
You dipshit we're not talking about toy sales. We're not talking about cartoons. You homosexual, if the comics aren't selling they can keep doing toys and cartoons while shuttering the fricking comic books! There's no reason to keep a dinosaur industry around when you can just lance it like a fricking boil!
They continue to make the comics because they can and because they can be a source of new IPs to adapt. The only morons wanting to turn it into a competition are fricking annoying weebs insecure of their love of weebshit and want to parade it as better in regards to something not even competing with weebshit and making more money than it anyway.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>and because they can be a source of new IPs to adapt.
Lol
Lmao
6 months ago
Anonymous
>They continue to make the comics because they can and because they can be a source of new IPs to adapt.
Adapting the newer shit is why the Marvels completely imploded. They've skipped past the good stories, and now comics are actively dragging the MCU down.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Imagine having your head shoved this far up your own ass.
In the past, you could. These days, you'll get crucified for even saying "this is for a male audience" or something. DC and Marvel won't touch that stuff.
You can't... well not really unless the real issue is addressed. Technology and advancement are killing the industry. First, there were video stores, then franchised video stores killed off the mom & pops. Then video stores, CDs, cassette tapes... all fell to the wayside due to the internet and being able to simply download what you want to watch.
These old geezers want you to think it's "woke" or whatever bullshit they want to think it is. The good ole days are gone. Adapt or die.
They are choosing to be the old man on the porch screaming about the good old days of yesteryear.
Frick that! Why live their lives for them? As long as people keep blaming 'current times' that their old out-of-date medium is falling out of favor: failure is all but promised.
>So why is Manga doing so well while Marvel and DC are eating shit?
They have anime to advertise their comics. That's it. That's how Demon Slayer sold so fricking well. The manga was doing well but exploded after the anime premiered on Netflix and the like.
>Regarding the series' sudden huge success, Weekly Shōnen Jump editor-in-chief Hiroyuki Nakano stated that the manga sales shot up straight after its anime adaptation finished, explaining that a large number of people watched the series through streaming services after it ended rather than watching it weekly. Nakano also stated that it is harder for a manga series running in the magazine to become a hit, and Demon Slayer: Kimetsu no Yaiba despite having started in February 2016, did not become a major hit until late 2019, adding that its success "hinged on word of mouth generated after the anime's run".[169]
A manga has to be successful in order to get an anime in the first place...
Here's another good question though. How come Manga gets a big boost from the anime, but Marvel sales stayed in the shitter despite the success of the MCU? If what you're saying is even remotely true, then that's a clear fricking contradiction!
So why didn't the MCU generate any fricking interest in the comics?
6 months ago
Anonymous
Because the comics are shit. Anime adaptations are usually copies of what's in the books.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Because multiple generations have grown up hardly ever seeing a comic, or only associating them with nerds and confusing reading orders.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>So why didn't the MCU generate any fricking interest in the comics?
Because they didn't advertise them at all.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Neither does anime.
6 months ago
Anonymous
the anime is the advertisement. Jump also makes videos to promote the manga. Like this
?si=bHydHJ5EbuxZ38wo
6 months ago
Anonymous
>Neither does anime.
You dumb motherfricker, anime IS the advertisement. Don't you remember watching Dragon Ball Z on VHS and seeing all those advertisements for manga, movies, games, and shirts?
6 months ago
Anonymous
>Look up the manga >Appreciate the subtle differences from the anime and maybe get a new chapter or detail the series left out. >Look up the comic >The obly thing it has in common with the comic is the name.
>How come Manga gets a big boost from the anime
Generally the anime doesn't start until there's already been a decent amount of chapters published of the manga, so it's easy for people to pick up from where the anime left off once their interest in the story has been piqued. >Marvel sales stayed in the shitter despite the success of the MCU
The movie series is easier to keep up with than the comic books they're supposed to be advertising. A lot of the audience for these movies are also the lowest common denominator who has no interest in reading anything.
Are you moronic? How can you make this point then ignore the commercial success of Marvel movies? Hell even DC pumps out a shit tonne of movies as well. Using your own logic comics should have received a massive influx of new buyers.
People also seem to forget that DC at least also pumps out lots of animated movies on a pretty regular basis, but they still don't really move the needle for the comics.
All the advertising in the world can't save a product that no one likes.
>wash >made millions
They are only called failures because Disney wants infinite money.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Dude...if something cost you 250+ million to make, and it only brought in like 120 million...it was a wash.
6 months ago
Anonymous
No actually that is a definition of a flop.
A wash is a net-zero gain when you only make back what it cost.
However since most investors own stakes in the companies that support the industry (marketing/catering/sfx/etc) they aren't really losing that much. Spend 250+ mil to make it, half of which goes back into their other companies, make another 120 mil on the box office flop, only a 5 mil loss spread across multiple investors. Not that bad. If the movie is a wash, then they make profit. And if it's successful, then party time.
6 months ago
Anonymous
One thing that kinda bothers me is how we nerds celebrate when a bad movie loses a few millions when the top people are billionnaires. If a movie loses, say, 250 million dollars then they can absorb it easily. They can fund a bunch of passion project flops and not have their quality of life affected. And we're like "a wallet was dented. A great victory for our culture."
>These old geezers want you to think it's "woke" or whatever bullshit they want to think it is
"We don't need to adhere to storytelling basics nor appeal to the customer because we're chasing the twitter zeitgeist" is a problem no matter how much that twitter zeitgeist insists it isn't.
>"We don't need to adhere to storytelling basics nor appeal to the customer because we're chasing the twitter zeitgeist" is a problem no matter how much that twitter zeitgeist insists it isn't. (Your quote)
Look at yourself, still yapping about crap that just serves as a distraction. Comic Books are falling out of favor because you idiots keep them from growing and attaching themselves to the progress of society. You're the reason they are dying out. Because you don't like change.
You could simply say "Hey, it's been a while but I think it's ok to bring some sexy back to comics." But instead, you dumb idiots say this instead. "OH NOOOO it's the WOKE MOB, I wanna see big fat breasts! And, let me show you the tons of degrading comic book images that make comics comics!"
I mean you guys are just hanging yourself listening to old-ass mofo's who just want to keep everything the same until the day they die.
There comes a time when you can't go to that 'club' anymore because you age out. Or some lines just don't work on women anymore because it's not 20 years ago.
Comic books evolve and go through periods, they only adapt if people focus on the actual medium and not the mumbo-jumbo latest youtube video essay stating WOKE V/S Jesus! absurd bullshit.
These folks are invested in getting you mad. If there were to be a solution they'd stop making money! So they need you farm rage and you dupes fall for it every time.
Well unless you catch on, you're going to kill your own industry.
Black person, I'm just reading manga instead. I wouldn't be if 50 year old manchildren weren't insisting that the central thesis of Spider-Man was to be a cucked loser living with his Aunt and refuse to deviate from their beloved 'formula.'
Stop projecting these people's bullshit onto us, you moron. The writers and editors hate change even more than we do, they just think that basic b***h pandering is enough to trick Zoomers into eating their slop.
>Well unless you catch on, you're going to kill your own industry.
Good. It's not my job to save this fricking shithole of an industry. I have no power here. Let it die, I'll just read Chainsaw Man. Frick you.
I dropped all my spidey pulls at One More Day because they did that. I thought Quesada was going to be the worst thing that ever happened to Marvel but they worked hard to prove that theory wrong.
They're doing actual genocide apologism right now in order to prop up Paul fricking Rabin and yet losers like
>"We don't need to adhere to storytelling basics nor appeal to the customer because we're chasing the twitter zeitgeist" is a problem no matter how much that twitter zeitgeist insists it isn't. (Your quote)
Look at yourself, still yapping about crap that just serves as a distraction. Comic Books are falling out of favor because you idiots keep them from growing and attaching themselves to the progress of society. You're the reason they are dying out. Because you don't like change.
You could simply say "Hey, it's been a while but I think it's ok to bring some sexy back to comics." But instead, you dumb idiots say this instead. "OH NOOOO it's the WOKE MOB, I wanna see big fat breasts! And, let me show you the tons of degrading comic book images that make comics comics!"
I mean you guys are just hanging yourself listening to old-ass mofo's who just want to keep everything the same until the day they die.
There comes a time when you can't go to that 'club' anymore because you age out. Or some lines just don't work on women anymore because it's not 20 years ago.
Comic books evolve and go through periods, they only adapt if people focus on the actual medium and not the mumbo-jumbo latest youtube video essay stating WOKE V/S Jesus! absurd bullshit.
These folks are invested in getting you mad. If there were to be a solution they'd stop making money! So they need you farm rage and you dupes fall for it every time.
Well unless you catch on, you're going to kill your own industry.
insist that we're the toxic ones in this relationship.
All I want is a vaguely readable book, and these morons are insisting that slapping a single rainbow flag on a two year long arc of character assassination means I'm obligated to pretend it's good.
Zeb Wells has serious issues with women, it's clear with how he writes Mary-Jane. But apparently the problem is me, the guy who stopped buying their stuff ages ago and b***hes on Cinemaphile every now and then.
I'm happy that Marvel and DC are dying, and I lose nothing I still care about if they do end up dying.
>You could simply say "Hey, it's been a while but I think it's ok to bring some sexy back to comics."
It's not actually about sexy. The decline in sexuality is a symptom, not the disease itself. The problem is, fundamentally, nobody who is writing mainstream comics has any basic understanding of storytelling, of characterization, of setup and payoff, etc. Those concerns are at the very bottom of their list. All mainstream cape comics today is just outrage-bait aimed at old fans and mirroring twitter trends and language. The powers that be believe that is what will save comics, and therefore there is little prioritization of the actual point, which is to tell an appealing adventure story.
Now, what came first, chicken or egg? Did comics go bad and introduced wokeness (serves dual purpose of outrage-baiting old fans and mirroring twitter) as a Hail Mary, or did the woke types infiltrate and destroy comics because they value social power over the product? I'd tend to think both are caused by a third factor, a general cultural malaise that is affecting everything, not just comics. Because the outrage-bait formula does indeed stretch pretty far back into the past, but at the same time, now that outrage-bait can be framed as noble the problem was exacerbated.
Regardless: until Marvel and DC decide they want to make a product that people actually want to buy, they will continue to lose what little they do still have. And the way to make a cape comic people want to buy is to make them have an emotional connection to the character, their struggles, and their triumphs. Modern Marvel and DC cannot even do that when they ARE pandering: see the Jon discussion and their complete inability to actually capture the western fujoshi audience. They are worst at yaoi tension than the average shonen aimed at heterosexual males!
>>The powers that be believe that is what will save comics
I don't get the sense that DC and Marvels editorial staff really thinks their comics will ever "go mainstream" or whatever. It felt halfhearted even back when the New 52 launched, and nowadays the vibe feels more like they're just trying not to drown.
>We don't need to adhere to storytelling basics nor appeal to the customer because we're chasing the twitter zeitgeist
There is some truth to this
A lot of people like to say that a manga is successful because it has variety in genres
When in reality a lot of those genres just don't reach the same main stream appeal as shounen
This. Manga doesn't obsessively chase a toxic and corrosive Xwitter zeitgeist, it cancels what doesn't sell, and it allows for a consistent writer and artist to work on the book for years.
maybe if they did anything besides capeshit they will sell more?
How can capeshit stay interesting and relevant after 50+ years of serialization?
The same stupid characters over and over again that hardly age and you can't kill or write off because that's the only thing that pull the few loyal fans that you have left.
saw a speedrun of this game the other day and it was awful, nothing but quippy lines while fighting big monsters that are hardly a threat to you and then the guy went directly to skip 5 cut scenes in a row with loading times between them.
You can't blame it on the fans though. They've been desperate to 'fire' all their fans and pull in new audiences through basic b***h social justice pandering.
It turns out the old, obese, out of touch boomers were actually the people writing this fricking garbage. Have you seen a picture of Dan Slott and the like? He's absolutely a fatass comics CHUD.
NTA but i enjoy these threads. I love comics and am an oldgay and want to get into comics write/drawing and FRICKING lettering my own book. These threads are an amazing glimpse into the business practices that can change the course and win.
And this is coming from someone who doesnt want to do capeshit.
Not him, but I don't care because a lot of the comics in other genres I'm interested in frick up their appeal by adding shit I don't like.
A good example being pic related. >Hmm, we're going to make a comic about a specific sport, what should we add to it? >Lots and lots of gay romance of course!
Comic publishers just simply do not understand how demographics work, period.
>Hmm, we're going to make a comic about a specific sport, what should we add to it? >>Lots and lots of gay romance of course!
every sports shounen lmao
>>Lots and lots of gay romance of course!
Unironically every fight manga featuring a fightsexual. Everyone thinks Ryu from SF and Chris Redfield are homosexuals because the Japanese can't into normal human relations and I hate it.
Bro, I don't recall any dudes making out in Street Fighter or Resident Evil.
6 months ago
Anonymous
That's the point, there is none. But the Japanese think making their heroes sexless autismos on autopilot is fricking cool.
6 months ago
Anonymous
thats because it IS fricking cool, you gay. The frick do i want romance between guile and chunli?
6 months ago
Anonymous
NTA but it's probably one of the gayest if not the gayest thing in anime. Whenever romance is involved, one character absolutely needs to go full moron to prevent anything resembling a relationship from happening, all because of otaku. AFAIK idols can't have boyfriends or something 'cause the simps stop shelling money on merch lol
>Hmm, we're going to make a comic about a specific sport, what should we add to it? >>Lots and lots of gay romance of course!
every sports shounen lmao
>Not him, but I don't care because a lot of the comics in other genres I'm interested in frick up their appeal by adding shit I don't like.
I don't see how that's any different than manga. I for one hate how it's almost always shit about teenage zoomers with moronic hairdos fighting giant monsters is the only thing that ever gets popular.
The difference is that manga is so much wider in range in the first place, and keeps and prunes works by fan sales/interest, and doesn't subsidize losers forever.
The fact that it's far easier to find war comics in japan than the country with AMERICA FRICK YEAH comics is frankly astounding.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>and doesn't subsidize losers forever.
That's probably the worst thing about it because the only thing morons buy is fight shonen shit.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>Not him, but I don't care because a lot of the comics in other genres I'm interested in frick up their appeal by adding shit I don't like.
I don't see how that's any different than manga. I for one hate how it's almost always shit about teenage zoomers with moronic hairdos fighting giant monsters is the only thing that ever gets popular.
I think the problem is that you don't really know anything about the manga market and think it's like comics where only 4-5 publishers are at all relevant and everything not published by them gets cancelled after a few weeks.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>The fact that it's far easier to find war comics in japan than the country with AMERICA FRICK YEAH comics is frankly astounding.
Exciting and dynamic action is one thing American comics are largely shit at. Art is either too stiff or looks like a tumblr comic strip.
1. Make all comic art be black and white to save costs.
2. Force Grocery stores and toy stores to put comics at the checkout. That way parents and kids can see it and buy it an impulse buy.
3. Have commercials on tv 24/7 advertising the comics.
4. Have advertisements on YouTube videos.
5. Pay big YouTubers, Twitch Streamers, and celebrities to shill comics.
6. Sell comics for $2.50
7. Make LCS have plenty of bright lights and look casual friendly.
8. Put more comics in magazine aisles.
9. Have more variety of comic genres.
10. Put more comics in libraries
11. Reboot all comics to start at #1 and never relaunch a comic at #1 ever again. Make continuity easy for casual audiences.
this is actually a good idea because now the content comes out faster and if the book does gangbusters you can release it in hardback WITH color for you absolute morons that demand your saturation.
Why don’t you go cry yourself to sleep again because the gays won’t let you enjoy a fencing comic?
No, I don't. Nothing wrong with gay comics existing, but that's not exactly the appealing to the mainstream that anon and anon insist western comics are trying. It's far easier to find gay comics than western sports comics in general.
6 months ago
Anonymous
It’s doing so well it went from a miniseries to an ongoing book and now is released in original graphic novels. So keep crying, the success of the series will be laughing to you on its way to the bank.
No matter how much you gnash your teeth at me, your fetish will never be normal. I've pointed out why a fricking sports book is shit because of unneeded gay shit in it, and it will never appeal to the mainstream. While other anons have mentioned that manga is winning by offering different genres of publications that don't need to descend to your gay shit to sell it to the a wide audience.
Fence is a success so your homophobic seething only further shows how pathetic you are.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Post the sales number of your gay book anon, does it crack the top 50 in the monthly's?
6 months ago
Anonymous
>IT WOULD BE A TOP TEN COMIC IS IT WASN’T GAY!!!!
LOL
LMAO even
6 months ago
Anonymous
>no numbers posted
Just as I thought.
6 months ago
Anonymous
That’s a lot of square meters that gay comic keeps occupied in your brain
6 months ago
Anonymous
>coping because got called out on your low sales gay comic
6 months ago
Anonymous
>Fence is a success
Bah. Actual Japanese comics explicitly labelled for women dwarf it by far. It's easy to be a success selling 10 when everything else is selling 0, that's the state of western comics.
For me it's Heather Antos, who works at IDW, recently retweeting that made-up graph showing comics are selling better than ever... despite the fact IDW had to layoff nearly half it's workforce this year.
It's crazy to me how comic readers want to save the industry more than the people who actually work IN the industry do.
Kill all these shitty old licensed characters instead of turning them into trannies and serialize actually interesting stories. Go the manga way. New shit that starts and ends, and then there's a new thing. You cannot milk fricking Superman forever he needs to fricking die
Even if you advertise the comics, no one will still read them. Or very few will pick them up and then drop them because it’s still shit. I stopped reading Manga ages ago, but I remember not being as frustrated with the writing and handling of the characters.
I find it funny that the way western comics try to add variety is by shoving in LGBT gays into their stories, the only thing that it does is alienate the existing fans.
Why can't they just move away from superhero stories instead of try and make them appealing to an nonexistence audience?
>Why can't they just move away from superhero stories instead of try and make them appealing to an nonexistence audience?
Because that would require gambling with time and money on something that could potentially flop. It's a business after all and its the reason why we keep getting the same shit over and over.
>Because that would require gambling with time and money on something that could potentially flop
they are already flopping anon, and shoving gays into their plotlines isn't helping.
>I find it funny that the way western comics try to add variety is by shoving in LGBT gays into their stories
They can't even do demographics right.
They look at manga and see, look they have gays and sell!! But the manga with gays that sell follow the cishet female fantasy down to a T, are made by cishet females, sell to cishet females, and in no way are associated with actual gays. Pic related. Yaoi has way more in common with 50 Shades of Grey and other bodice rippers for women than the LGBT shit that's pushed in western comics. But this truth upsets the queers and the trannies, because if they admit there's comics for cishet females then they have admit there's also comics for cishet males, and we can't have that.
exactly what I mean, I hate homos as much as the next guy, if it was up to me I'd have them all shot against the wall.
But I understand there is an audience for that, and putting those characters in traditional comics won't just pull the fujo audience automatically.
I'm saying western trannies and idiot sjws don't understand shit about demographics and their attempt to dilute everything in the name of inclusion is only pissing everyone off because no one is getting the thing they want.
I think it was more to show how the men look like men and not man and man who looks like a girl.
6 months ago
Anonymous
>men look like men
Where? The designs from 2010 are unironically way more feminine than those from the previous era, only the designs from the 70's are maybe more feminine. Like the two guys from 1990 could be two drag queens, I know there's a penis there, the ones from 2000 look like a masculine man and a boy, the ones from 2010 look like two FTM trannies who just got top surgery but will always have a vegana down there.
6 months ago
Anonymous
I think your western mind has been warped if all you see is trannies, drag queens and Pedophilia.
6 months ago
Anonymous
I said nothing about pedophilia, anon. Adults can look young too, this dude was 25 years old at the same of this photo. That's what I meant by "looks like a boy", if I wanted to imply pedophilia, I would have said so.
I can tell that's supposed to be a cis male unlike the FTM trannies in the panel below. Are you a troony yourself, is that way you feel called out?
6 months ago
Anonymous
Now I'm just wondering why you called a Young Adult a boy and not just simply a Young Man.
6 months ago
Anonymous
I didn't care enough at the time of that post to state "Cis dude who looks slightly older and way more masculine and cis dude who looks slightly younger and less masculine but I can still tell that's a cis dude unlike the trannies from the next era." Being this pedantic is why nobody likes like you.
6 months ago
Anonymous
I think your western mind has been warped if all you see is trannies, drag queens and Pedophilia.
I said nothing about pedophilia, anon. Adults can look young too, this dude was 25 years old at the same of this photo. That's what I meant by "looks like a boy", if I wanted to imply pedophilia, I would have said so.
I can tell that's supposed to be a cis male unlike the FTM trannies in the panel below. Are you a troony yourself, is that way you feel called out?
Well, as it happens, the men in japan are looking more like 12 year old girls now.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Sadly, the troony agenda is taking a foothold there too.
It's a downward trend for the whole industry, so I'm not surprised even niche genres are affected and designs become bland and boring. Compare pic related with contemporary designs.
Notice how various anons jump back and forth from >They ARE trying to serve the masses
to Catty inflation level screeching about homophobia when the lightest inquiry follows.
It's easier to find bad western attempts at yaoi than western sports or war comics.
This anon takes his homosexuality seriously.
They're doing actual genocide apologism right now in order to prop up Paul fricking Rabin and yet losers like [...] insist that we're the toxic ones in this relationship.
All I want is a vaguely readable book, and these morons are insisting that slapping a single rainbow flag on a two year long arc of character assassination means I'm obligated to pretend it's good.
Zeb Wells has serious issues with women, it's clear with how he writes Mary-Jane. But apparently the problem is me, the guy who stopped buying their stuff ages ago and b***hes on Cinemaphile every now and then.
I'm happy that Marvel and DC are dying, and I lose nothing I still care about if they do end up dying.
Sorry. You're getting 12 different varieties of daily life with post gay urbanites, with a splash of magical realisim furries.
>This anon takes his homosexuality seriously.
Damn right I do.
6 months ago
Anonymous
Cool, nobody cares.
[...]
This stuff about sex is bullshit and a way to discount the whole discussion into porn or pandering to coomers. Shit being sexy or not sexy is not the reason why Western comics are shit or why manga is selling. Women looking like trannies and spewing fourth wave feminist nonsense isn't just not sexy, it's insufferable and boring and it beats you over the head instead of entertaining. The whole thing is that people are buying this shit with cash to get some entertainment from it. The only people who are able to buy this shit and feel something positive from it are hardcore lefties who live a sheltered life and absolutely must virtue signal on how they bought X comic to support the LGBT. Nobody else gives a fricking frick. I want to buy comics to be entertained and so do most normal people. It's not about politics or whether I disagree with gender nonsense or women's rights or any other shit western comics are about these days, this shit is just BORING. This is BORING. I can't imagine looking at a comic and seeing "Superman reveals he's GAY!!!!!!" and feeling all excited, WHAT A TWIST! WAOW I ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO BUY THIS COMIC, I don't give a frick about Superman already because he's fricking boring, making him gay doesn't make him any less boring. This is literally everything that Western comics are about. Boring character is now black or gay. You read 2 lines of dialogue and you wanna literally fricking gouge your eyes out because they're written by people who aren't even human. The people who write dialogue in Western comics are less relatable than shut-in Japanese hikikomori who draw manga, at least they say relatable shit like "I must go on no matter what, even if it costs me everything!" you understand and feel something when you read this sort of drivel, but when a character goes like "oh Katherinx this strawberry frappuccino really makes me feel empowered with feminist vibes. How's your gender today?" I don't wanna read anymore, I don't care.
>oh Katherinx this strawberry frappuccino really makes me feel empowered with feminist vibes. How's your gender today?
It's sad because it's true.
6 months ago
Anonymous
So why aren't you buying the latest DC Pride Anthology, huh?
Cut the gay shit
Cut the multiverse shit
Cut the preaching
Cut the giant organizations and teams
Cut the power level wanking
Cut the side characters trying desperately to be useful
Bring back vigilantism
Bring back the themes of isolation, moral relativity, and sacrifice
Bring back the violence, the challenge
Bring back character focused stories
Bring back real villains
Bring back real heroes
I really think they should just transition to graphic novels at this point. Change the comic standard to be more compact, so you don't have to pay 20+ comics for one story, when there are so many comic lines that it's hard for anybody to gravitate to anything but what they already know.
It won't matter if the books are still shit. And they're still too in love with the Direct Market; most of these retailers are suckers and easy money. They don't have to care about how popular the books are, only how many retailers they can scam into stocking more unsold issues.
Eventually retailers will realize some shit won't sell. It's why the barnes and noble near me has more space for manga than it does graphic novels (double the amount of shelves than for graphic novels.) If you go to an actual comic book store, most of it is comics, and the ones that sell are usually older, there is one where half of the store is comic books, but people usually don't go there to buy comics, they go there for traditional board games.
I think the absolute opposite, they should print them in black and white on shit paper because comics are meant to be consumable goods. If I want amazing art I'll buy an art book or a print. Why waste color and rendering on what's gonna be talking heads and inane shit with a nice splash somewhere in between? Graphic novels are a travesty and I say this while appreciating a nicely drawn comic with beautifully colored illustrations. Comics are meant to be a proletarian - for lack of better word - art form, shit that you can buy with pocket change and you can read quickly while commuting. I know it sounds like I'm sucking off manga but manga really understood this and they're more successful than ever specifically because of this. Thing comes out, it starts, it ends, it's printed quickly in magazines, if it's very successful it gets adapted into other shit and you get an anime or whatever, but the baseline is quickly, cheaply produced stuff that can be mass produced and consumed.
Magazines would be blessing for comic creators. If anything the West has the ability to appreciate things that are more out there and unorthodox compared to manga, so maybe they should double down on creative stuff, crazy stories, weird art styles, things that are new. The reason why Western comics are failing is that they're hiring trannies to ape the manga artstyle while themselves off with insufferable diversity lectures when the artstyle is the last thing that makes manga successful. They're doing the laziest, most cowardly thing imaginable: taking characters that are 100 years old and have completely run out of steam and making them gay or black and expect everyone to throw cash at it. It's not even about values, nobody gives a FRICK that you take it in the ass or you're black. NOBODY gives a SHIT, that's why this stuff is dying.
A lot of American comic artists feel like they are trying to prove that what they're doing "matters". Like they have an (admittedly pretty justified) chip on their shoulder about the nerdy association with comics. They aren't always trying to "make it" but to "prove it".
>comics
obsessed with wanting to be different and unique that it has no easy entry point and lacks mainstream appeal
normal people have no idea that a lot of the tv shows and movies they watch is even based off a comic >manga
recognizable and appealing uniform art style
reliable tropes and story structures that you can easily insert any character into
any anime is basically a huge advertisement for a manga that you can easily start where you left off
Spider-Man and Batman need to go back to basics.
Spider-Man should at the very least have a steady girlfriend who lasts for at least the entirety of a run, if you can't undo Quesada's marraige autism and he should be working for the Daily Bugle and fighting supervillains. Don't make an entire run fricking re-litigating unpopular story decisions. If Spider-Man and MJ can't be together, just leave her out of the run.
Batman should have Alfred back and just like Spider-Man, don't use your run to re-litigate Catwoman drama from the Tom King run. If Batman can't be dating Catwoman, just don't use her. Batman should be an actual detective who helps Jim Gordon solve cases.
Fixing these two characters basically solves everything. Characters like Hulk, Daredevil, Thor, Flash, Green Lantern, etc. already have good comics. But you NEED to fix Spider-Man and Batman so that normies think Marvel and DC are back and are more willing to give turbo-nerd characters a chance.
Make our own comics. Make good comics. Succeed. That's literally it barring regulations but media doesn't need tons of money to find eyes anymore it just needs the public's attention
This is bullshit. You need an industry for publishing unless you wanna make the lowest common denominator. There's a reason why you only have a foot to stand on if you draw fanart or porn if you're a nobody. The Japanese have a healthy industry that scouts for stories and rewards people who submit shit. The West doesn't have an industry. Things will never change if there's no change in the industry. This "hell yeah just make your own stuff that's better" is hot air and it means nothing. You literally cannot publish without backup from something bigger than you. Small publishers these days ask you what's your social media follower count and the amount of money you get if you have a successful run is absolutely laughable. How do you get a follower count in the world of algorithms? That's right, derivative shit and Twitter trends. Guess what's killing Western media
Also there's the fact that if you are not interested in Batman or whatever other spandex fruit character among a handful you've seen for the past 200 years, as a Western fan, you can pretty much ditch the whole thing. It's all just Batman or Superman or Spider-Man and no matter if you change the writer or artist or whatever, it's still the same fricking shit. Wolverine goes SNIKT, Jesus fricking CHRIST for the 4039458430952824 time it's not cool anymore. If you don't like this shit you're out. If you don't like Chainsaw Man you're not done with manga, why? Because there's other shit getting made. Chainsaw Man will end and something new will come out, in fact there is a variety of different shit getting made at the same time so if you do not like one thing, you can find another. This is literally impossible in Western comics. You like Spider-Man or you like Batman, at best you can try one of the Bat-Family or Spider-People but it's fundamentally ALL the same SHIT, it's nowhere near more stimulating than Japanese shonenshit except it beats you over the head with frappuccino speak, why would anyone enjoy this? Children grow bored of supershitters quite early, normies will never read the comics after seeing the movies, they don't understand that people who want to read comics are a niche and only see normalBlack folk who watched the latest capeshit movie or old hardcore fans who'd buy Batman in a drag because it's Batman and they need issue #49239. It's all so fricking gay I'm actually amazed that the industry is still standing in any shape or form.
>If you don't like this shit you're out. If you don't like Chainsaw Man you're not done with manga, why? Because there's other shit getting made. Chainsaw Man will end and something new will come out, in fact there is a variety of different shit getting made at the same time so if you do not like one thing, you can find another.
True but that's because it's good at making think there is variety
It's a popular and successful mainstream appealing genre of manga that isn't too restricted in aesthetics like capeshit
You're tired of this shounen?
Well there is this other one which is also has all the shit in shounen that you like, but feels different
Yeah shonen is all the same shonenshit, but there's enough of a variety in pacing, tone and style that it feels different. Absolutely, you're gonna go through the same tropes all the time, but it's ENOUGH. And there's an important factor, these characters aren't eternal. You do not know if this or that cherished character in your brand new shonenshit will die, or if he'll turn evil or some other shit. You absolutely do know with absolute certainty that the Batman will not kill the Joker, that if the Joker will die accidentally he won't be permanently dead. Batman himself will never fricking die. This will go on forever until the sun burns out. There are no stakes in Western shit because they want to milk the characters themselves like they're brand. Shonenshit AT LEAST milks a true and tested narrative, but everything within it is all up for guesses.
I can't stress enough how fricking important it is to have a story that actually fricking ends. Stories need to begin and end. Batman should go from point A to point B to point C and then fricking be OVER PERMANENTLY. What's like this in Japanese media? Dragonball? Dragonball is a special case because Dragonball fans are mentally moronic, but everything else just begins and ends. Assuming that the author doesn't die first.
Have you ever had a loved one die of cancer? The pain needs to be processed. These threads are the five stages of grief in regards to the death of western comics.
Group A recognizes the comic industry is falling, or perhaps already has fallen, into a death spiral. Group B argues that it is not happening, because their social power comes from their influence in the comic book industry. That very influence that grants Group B their social power may be part of the reason why the industry is falling apart, and so Group A debates with people who have a vested interest in not admitting there is a problem.
Why does Group A continue? Perhaps it's a form of mourning.
Honestly, I think the fact that so many comics are also single volume graphic novels which don't always have enough room to really flesh out a story also hurts things.
>end required reading multiverses and crossovers >actually let characters age and stay dead >End stories instead of countless reboots >do things other than traditional superheroes, like sports or westerns.
Ms. Marvel was a best seller until she got lost in the crossover event bullshit and never recovered.
Elseworlds and What-Ifs sell better than mainline because they are self contained and end.
Captain Underpants has no required reading in other book series, and is the best selling western super comic.
Bone is the best selling western comic period and isn't a super at all.
I wanna read Jojo or One Piece. Where do I start?
Chapter one and then go forward.
I wanna read Spider-Man or Batman. Where do I start?
Well...what do you like about them? If you want serious or lighthearted I have a few recs. Also a lot of the cartoons are based on specific runs you won't see a lot of that characterization in this or that... If you're okay with fifty year old writing then these are some classics a lot of people find definitive. Wait, where are you going?
Don't forget the events that are REALLY important to the particular character. In order to read THOSE, you have to read 6 OTHER different titles drawn by really shitty artists compared to the artists on the series you're following. I swear Marvel's events are just to get people to buy titles with shitty art that weren't selling well.
If the art's good, no problems. The problem is the art usually blows, looking like that semi-weekly shit Marvel puts out (what is it, "Infinity Comic"?), or worse.
Stop hiring queer activist writers. Use writers that are straight and don't hate men. Artists have no choice but to follow the script or quit in protest and make their own indiegogo-funded shitty books about lgbtq crap that will fail every time.
>Comics are getting by >Put Black folk and homosexuals in the comics and have them talk down to the buyer and beloved heroes >Sales plummet >Comicbook companies are scratching their heads >They continue down the path that ruined them
These motherfrickers don't deserve to exist. They are so stupid that they should had forgotten how to breathe. They think floppy sales are of no consequence because they only exist as marketing for the movies. Well guess what. If your product is so shit that people won't buy the floppies then they won't buy tickets or merchandise either. Utter morons.
I just got into collecting comics and watched both Batman and Spider-man get cucked. I've since spent hundreds on older issues primarily made before 2000.
Current writers and editors suck balls and the format is too expensive to bother with.
What the frick are you talking about? I buy what I enjoy. Spending $5 on a new book in an industry filled with no-talent dipshits like Tini Howard, Sarah Gailey, Tom King, Zeb Wells, Chip Zdarsky, Rainbow Rowell, Tee Franklin, Alyssa Wong, Tom Taylor, Matthew Rosenberg, Joshua Williamson, Leah Williams, and so on isn't worth it.
he's accusing you of being a speculatorgay buying up shit modern releases because you think you'll make a profit on it down the line because he's a moron who didnt read your post
he's accusing you of being a speculatorgay buying up shit modern releases because you think you'll make a profit on it down the line because he's a moron who didnt read your post
That's what all comic collectors do. You know that's why some of those issues were hundreds of dollars? People treat them like investments instead of books. If you went out of your way to look for varient covers that goes double.
i just buy books i want to read and then put them in a box when im done, i dont care about the monetary value i just like making more shit for my family to have to get rid of when i die
Even if Marvel and DC reformed, and the comics industry went some through new Golden Age where we had better stories and new popular genres to read with new publishers, I still wouldn't read them in physical form. I, and many people in their 20s, just aren't interested in physical media anymore. Is the comics industry willing to stream their content in single service with a free online/subscription model?
>How do we save the comic book industry?
1) First and foremost, put out comics that people want to buy. That means comics that tell a good story. You can be as woke and gay as you want, so long as it's in service of the story and not the other way around. Same if the art's only so-so. But if you write stories nobody wants to read, they're not going to buy them
.
2) Make it easy to buy the comics people would want to read. That means you need to have them for sale in a lot more stores than just the occasional (or nonexistent) specialty store. There are plenty of niche-ass magazines on the racks at Walmart, at the checkout counter, and at the pharmacy, I seriously doubt they sell better than a good comic would. If your distribution system is too fricked up to permit you to do what small-circulation magazines manage to do, then do it their way instead.
3) Nah, that's it. There is no 3. You people act like this is rocket science or something.
And the "go away, the world doesn't work like that any more" attitude is just putting your hands over your ears and shouting "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" when someone gives you an answer you don't like. You need to get new readers. They aren't going to seek you out, so you have to go to them, get their eyeballs to discover your wares for the first time, and make them want to start buying. Doing things the way you're set up to do them now isn't working. If your ways aren't going to get books in front of eyeballs, then you need to find new ways that will.
HEY DC
I know you're reading this
Make Batman suck a wiener and see what happens
Do it you cowards
Do it and see what happens to your sales overnight
You fricking pussies, if you were real about this queer shit you'd make Bruce Wayne Batman gay and have him suck a fricking dick on panel
DO IT
You won't do it because you know what happens if you do
You want to SAVE that thing?? Look at it anon. It's so mangled you can barely recognize it. At some point it's cruel to force something to exist in such a wretched twisted agonizing state.
Ah who am I kidding, we can deform and torture it some more I'm sure you can squeeze another penny out of it on life support you animals
Superman was never a good character for the masses. In a Era where people want stories where the main protagonist has to struggle to acquire his strength, a character born strong and undefeatable because he is "LE HOPE" was never going to work
western e-girl doujins
think about it
Will never happen as long as SJW blue-hair Tumblr dykes are running the industry. 2dqts are not allowed.
Fakku already legally sells uncensored H-manga including e-girl in america. In fact, when Fakku went legit, there was major doomposting on Cinemaphile and they had to full on do the PR shit and note that they have cleared with legal etc.
>In fact, when Fakku went legit, there was major doomposting on Cinemaphile and they had to full on do the PR shit and note that they have cleared with legal etc.
Isn't the whole deal with US obscenity laws that they are inherently subjective
Well, the point is that the end of the day, Fakku is still selling e-girl manga in america.
Fakku is based in Oregon, literally the only US state to abolish their obscenity laws. That is not a fricking accident.
Federal obscenity prosecutions have basically not happened since Bush due to federal fears that they'd inevitably walk into a 1st amendment challenge and get the federal laws tossed and due to determinations that funding and manpower would be better directed going after CP.
>It's more that the US doesn't have any federal obscenity laws
We do though.
Also, while we're on the subject, e-girl is hardly the only thing that can be found "obscene". Fricking Urotsukidoji famously got someone slapped with obscenity charges.
Basically selling any fetish porn in the US could be argued to be illegal by a prosecutor looking to ruin someone's day. Probably in Texas.
It's more that the US doesn't have any federal obscenity laws, so they're all based on what state you're in.
So if you live in an extremely liberal state like, say, California, or Massachusetts, you can get pretty much whatever you want published.
you sometimes see that on some hentai site but they have no skills. its ugly as sin.
Already a thing. Why aren't you buyin' them?
It's still astounding to me how no one at DC could see how bad of a business decision it was to make Jon Kent LGBT. If you want to draw in new readers, particularly young boys, you can't make the focal male character gay or bi or any of that. That's just the way it is. Male readers aren't going to go out of their way to support gay/bi male characters. Their only interest in the LGBT stuff is when two cute girls are making out. The only exception I've seen is Deadpool, who is pansexual, but the movie treats that as a punchline and no one really takes it seriously. I guess DC thought they could chase fujobucks but they put Jon with that wet blanket pink-haired frick who no one cares about. It's just crazy how they've mismanaged these new characters.
Touch grass
ok now what
I'm not wrong. Jon Kent lost practically all of his popularity overnight. Tom Taylor can lie through his teeth all he wants, but sales for Jon's book dropped after it was revealed he was into dudes. It doesn't help that Jon is currently being drawn as gay as possible. You all know the artist I'm talking about.
Jon Kent was already spiraling downwards by the time Tom Taylor revealed he was gay. It was a hail mary to try to save a failing comic.
A hail mary that not only didn't work but actually killed any remaining interest the character might have had.
Bendis aging was the start. Turning gay was the final nail in the coffin. Inwouldn't habe problem with them making Jon bi, but problem is him being gay (not even bi because kissing girls is haram for bi men) is his whole schtick.
Bi men might as well be homosexuals.
>Jon Kent was already spiraling downwards by the time Tom Taylor revealed he was gay. It was a hail mary to try to save a failing comic.
4th reprint of the omni, you lying fricking homosexual.
>Jon Kent lost practically all of his popularity
Jon Kent never had any popularity to lose
Jon wasn't popular but Super Sons certainly was
Aging him up was the stupid part he was the first character in ages that readers had latched onto so they cut him away from his supporting cast and changed everything people liked about him
He's right though, you can't go "touch grass!" when it's you living in the fantasy world and he's just saying how it is.
Lmao imagine thinking some Z-lister is why comics are dying. Boys are out there reading Dogman, not some dumb and boring Z-lister.
being a disgusting homosexual is what makes him a z-lister
He was a Z Lister because nobody except for supertards ever cared for this dumb character. Batman is the only A-lister at DC.
Truth
Seething homosexuals.
Jon Kent and the whole Superhomosexualry was always gay as frick.
Forgot pic
what the frick are you doing here then? you cartoon trannies are the absolute worst. KYS
I swear we need a seperate board for comics.
Deadpool isn't supposed to be an every day man
Same reason why no one would care if a Greek god fricked some twinks
That pretty much stopped me from buying any DC book. What a shame.
I'm sure there are people at DC who knew it was a horrible idea but couldn't speak up against it to not be labeled bigoted. That's how it usually goes in these organizations, the sane people keep their heads down and either leave the company or quietly collect a paycheck while doing the bare minimum required of them.
DC and Marvel editorials really have no idea what yaoi or yuri fans want.
They have gone HARD on having multiple gay books out but they are written for "support and representation" rather than to actually appeal to the readers of this sort of stuff.
You can't just make a character gay and instantly put it in a committed loving relationship. That's not ROMANTIC writing you stupid fricks.
There's no angst, rivalry, passion, etc.
Or they just make the character a bawd that kisses anyone like Iceman now is.
Those frickers write like they never read a romance story.
So not only are their books unappealing to regular readers, they are not actually going to interest the readers that like yaoi and yuri.
Its honestly amazing how the most questionable Yaoi/Yuri has more romance and love than whatever the frick comics are doing.
Even Junjo Romantica looks like a masterpiece compared to gay couples in comics.
Because the characters in yaoi/yuri are written as actual characters who are gay, while the ones in western stuff are mascots performing the act of Being Gay.
They really are idiots. Putting him into a love triangle with a guy and a girl would have appeased almost everyone but they immediately went full gay.
>Putting him into a love triangle with a guy and a girl would have appeased almost everyone but they immediately went full gay.
The fact that you think adding a female love interest to a love triangle with another male would suddenly bring back the MAJORITY HETEROSEXUAL READERSHIP is pretty funny.
This. You don't reset to 0 if you frick one dude and one chick, they don't cancel each other out. If you ever suck one dick you're gay, even if you frick a thousand chicks afterwards.
Nobody cares except people like you who are obsessed with gay sex
t. gayfer
Jon Kent and the now homosexual Alan Scott say otherwise anon.
Nobody remembers Gay Tim and his comic with incredibly bad art.
Oh, they remember it. The news made sure if it tell us that Robin had come out of the closet when it happened.
Everyone knows Tim as the gay one now.
>Nobody remembers Gay Tim
Wrong. It's the opposite. He's now only known as the Gay Tim. His decades of straight comics just vanished, as if they never happened. That's why turning characters gay is so poisonous. Because forever after they'll be known as just "that token gay" and be rejected by the majority audience.
The same collection of insane homophobes throwing shit everywhere during their daily I Hate Gays tirades doesn’t matter.
It's like you've never read any romance manga. There wouldn't have been any dicksucking. Just blushes, awkward situations and maybe some hand holding if they're feeling bold.
Doing it now wouldn't change anything. Doing it from the start would have. Both sides will just delude themselves into thinking their ship is the one true ship. Keep the "will they-won't they" going until the next big status quo shake up event to see which ship is the most popular and go with that. Have the other character disappear and have Jon sometimes remark about how he feels like "something is missing".
>Doing it from the start would have.
It really wouldn’t have. Nobody but bisexual men think of themselves as a catch, which is why it’s hard to pitch it to heterosexual readers.
>maybe if we throw a girl in there, they’ll forgot the fact that Superman’s son LOVES SUCKING wiener AND GETTING FRICKED UP THE ASS
lol
Says the person who quite literally spends more time imagining anal sex, big throbbing veiny dicks going into men’s mouths and whatever other gay kink than an actual average gay dude does.
If they'd done it like that you'd be here arguing that the one time Jon and the guy went skinny dipping in the lake was just boys doing very platonic boy things and how Jon carrying the girl home trough the pouring rain after she had sprained her ankle (obviously in a now see-trough dress) was obviously a sign of true romance.
It's like you guys can't even into romance. There is no sex, just situations that could be interpreted as arousing.
Nobody wants your gay romance anon.
Nobody wants a story about a bisexual superhero’s love angst.
Yeah its because they rush it out the door with no thought or effort and most of the time the guy writing its not even gay or a lesbians or whatever sexuality they are trying to write the sad thing is they were infinitely better at this shit decades ago when being seen as gay or lesbian was viewed way harsher then it is today.
Is Jon mentally an adult? i mean, his body was aged up, but he didn't actually live all these years.
That’s not true at all. He is absolutely mentally an adult and time passed as if it were years to him.
I didn't read the comic, just saw a few pages, but was that mentioned?
Supersons wasn't any good and the fact that Bendis has made you autists seeth so much for years now almost makes up for him creating Miles Morales.
Supersons was SHIT and you gay shota morons wouldn't stop bringing it up in EVERY thread, I'm so glad you're miserable now. You'll NEVER have the old Jon Kent back.
Are you really THAT suprised? Do you just go into every Jon Kent thread and seethe that the overall consensus that DC made a mistake? We don't need Jon Kent anymore, we havent for a long time. Cinemaphile will take every opportunity to shit on that mistake Bendis and Taylor made. Forever smearing thier legacy in infamy.
And if DC goes down with that mistake. Fine by us, no skin off our nose.
Be allowed to show nudity.
The comics code is long defunct.
Showing full on breasts willy nilly seems like it'd have the same effect on Twitch, just full on nude all over the place, but it would settle down as people got it out of their system.
That’s why they should do it.
It would save the industry.
God, I would give fricking anything to see Whisper the Wolf nude. I want to see that cute wolf's little ass shaking in a panel and just make me bust.
Culture war stuff aside.
Western Comics have been a dead genre for like fricking 30 years.
Its way too hard for the average kid to just pick up a spiderman book and read it.
So why not read Naruto instead, way easier. Better art, better stories, way better value.
Western media literally can not compete the way it currently is.
have a nice day narutard
Why? It's not my medium that's dying.
Manga is a subset of the comic medium, not a separate medium. And Western comics are simply going indie.
But he’s right? Majority of popular manga are better than the big 2.
this is a chat bot programmed to say this to anyone that types "naruto"
Havent heard anyone call someone a "narutard" since 2008.
>30 years
>implying they were dead in the fricking 90s
The bubble started to burst in 1993. By 1996 nearly all the indie publishers that popped up in the 80s were dead. If he's jumping the gun, it's only by 3 years.
>Better art, better stories,
>naruto
lol
that being said Western floppies are a terrible format and the comics are incompressible for new people . Manga is awful even compared to capeshit but they are easier to get into and you have a better format .
nta, but Naruto (& manga in general) easily mog every comic being made rn, and that manga ended in 2014.
>but Naruto (& manga in general) easily mog every comic being made rn
Not even. I'd say Naruto is on par with the slop that gets made these days because shonen is slop.
You must be delusional if you think anything in say current Spider-Man can even compare to the Zabuza arc, even if you only take the fights.
As a long time Spider-Man fan...
I agree completely. Zeb has created the worst run we've ever had in decades. It's repellant.
>You must be delusional if you think anything in say current Spider-Man can even compare to the Zabuza arc
Zabuza arc was the only good thing about Naruto and Spider-Man sucks. He's carried entirely by his movies.
Nah. Naruto declines pretty late into its run. Even then, the final battle and actual epilogue are great.
>Naruto declines pretty late into its run
Naruto declines after the Zabuza arc, but it's not the world's end. It worsens around the end of the Chuuni exams where Sauske joins Orochimaru for contrived reasons, picks up a little bit due to that fight with Naruto at the waterfall valley, and then declines further with Shippudden.
Nah. Sasuke leaves the Leaf because he's seething that Naruto is getting stronger. Itachi kicking his shit in is what makes him go. Other than the cast becoming irrelevant, Shippuden is fine until the 4th war arc.
>Sasuke leaves the Leaf because he's seething that Naruto is getting stronger. Itachi kicking his shit in is what makes him go.
Yes, and it was the most contrived bullshit ever.
Not really. He believed he was getting stronger. Then Naruto almost surpassed him, and his lifes goal beats him into a pulp. He wanted more power quickly since he believed staying in the Leaf wasn't enough. He even tries fighting Naruto and gets assmad when his attacks are clearly superior.
>Man, I'm not getting stronger. Think Sasuke, what should you do? Train and get better with friends like how Naruto did, or break all my ties, become a terrorist, and join up that murderous pedophile motherfricker and his Joseph Mengele boyfriend?
Again, the most contrived bullshit ever.
No, because he did get stronger. When Shippuden starts, he is much stronger than Naruto. He was proven right.
The fact that the manga took these expeeimental turns show you its quality and potential.
Naruto had a lot of great arcs, at least post-shippuden.
I can't think of a single arc that was bad/boring now that I think about it.
I simply can't bother to care about rabbit b***h, even Madara was starting to get tiring with his bullshit, mogging all the kage without trying was jumping the shark. At least it gave us Night Guy kino
Absolutely not. Pain arc, Chunin exams, Sound 4 etc mog any modern capeshit
Why do floppies need to be filled with homosexualry to kill them just so you homosexuals can write OGNs? Why can’t they just let floppies be for straight people and you can go make your homosexual OGNs and leave us actually fans alone?
Anyone saying floppies are still the single most sustainable format of comics, outside of dogman and secondary release manga which already made money in Japan, is a moron or a shill for gay comics.
If the floppies stopped being gay and BIPOC infested they’d sell better to the people still going to LCS. Gay BIPOC will never go to LCS because they don’t spend money. So why shouldn’t they just stop killing a format to force a format change?
Just make both for the audiences that pay for them.
Aren’t still*
I'm not buying any floppy as long as they are this expensive and not even a full story, no matter how straight and white it is. I didn't buy them as a kid in the 2000s for the same reason.
>So why not read Naruto instead, way easier. Better art, better stories, way better value.
you also need five billy bookshelves to collected all 3456 volumes of naruto which is probably more than a few of the good collected runs of spiderman.
People always seem to boast about reading manga is just a case of starting from chapter one with no spin off series or what ifs or seasonal annuals but they forget how long running some of the best manga series are
>probably more than a few of the good collected runs of spiderman.
Which ones are those? You and I know: does the random causal fan know? Meanwhile, if a person knows they want to read 'Naruto,c they just start on chapter one, and then stop when they get bored. It is simple and easy. The entire issue is really simple: the comic industry would rather die than change.
>reboot Batman #1
>only have one writer and one artist on it for the next 5+ years
>weekly or bi-weekly as opposed to monthly
>during this time have no spinoffs of other Batman characters that could potentially confuse readers on Batman’s story run
It’s just not possible
>yes we really need a 20th batman comic
>yes it will retcon everything
>NOTHING ORIGINAL ALLOWED!!
it can but you need to work at it like a tv show where you have the entire season done before the first episode airs
>>only have one writer and one artist on it for the next 5+ years
Would get boring quick.
Is that really why you would want to change the artist and writer
>Is that really why you would want to change the artist and writer
Yes. Garth Ennis worked on Hellbazer for four years. The first two years were great because Vertigo hadn't existed yet, meaning Ennis had a leash to his neck and a revolving door of artists to keep the art fluid and interesting. Then after the two year mark, Hellblazer became a Vertgio title, Ennis' writing quality dipped and Steve "FRANKface" Dillon became his artist. The writing quality dipped because Ennis grew bored and desperately wanted to break out and do his own thing.
Another example: Sean Phillips was one of the greatest lesser-known artists of the late 80s and early 90s in comics. He could make art like pic and it was lovely, He wasn't working constantly, meaning his work was something of a treat. Then he became the artist of Hellblazer from 1994-1999 and you never saw anything like pic again because he had a deadline to meet.
>*5 years later*
>Batman NEW #1 ORTIZ WILLIAMS SYAF
The New 52 Snyder run was kind of like that.
>comics
>nothing matters in a story because it will all get rebooted until the end of time forever in an endless cycle
>nobody stays invested, industry dies
>manga
>IN MOST MANGA, everything matters because it has one run which is the definitive canon that doesn't change ever
>industry thrives to this day
Hmm
The worst part is that they really could remedy this by just focusing more on publishing chronological omnibuses. There's a lot out there now, but it somehow still feels half-assed.
For example, a lot of Bronze Age shit remains uncollected because Bronze Age material requires more royalties or something. Also, it looks like they spread themselves too thin already; why start publishing Silver Age omnibuses when you haven't even finished the Golden Age omnibuses (Superman, for example)? They should just focus on reprinting the older material until they're caught up with the new shit instead of just collecting every vaguely popular modern storyline.
Forget manga even anon, it's about to enter the manhwa era. I find even a chapter where basically nothing happens to be better in one of the more decent series than any comic nowadays. And that's before you even get into the fights being better than comics can be.
Yeah I know most of it's basically the same slop repeated with the same cliches but some series are just 10/10 for a weekly released comic.
Just watch solo leveling usher in the new age of animated shows and then the ORV movie will get more stuff live action and comics will literally be forgotten in favour of the newest hollywood murim/tower grinding hunter demon king reincarnated from harlem blockbuster.
Western Comic isn't a fricking genre. Superheroes is a genre and THAT is the dead genre in America and Europe due to Marvel and DC's over saturation.
These are just cliches. The problem is that most will refuse to read and the few that do read don't want what the comics publishers are selling.
Anyone who makes it more complicated than that is in denial.
Kids of an age where they're interested in capeshit (5-8) won't read comics. This leaves teens and adults. Teens will read manga because manga is fresh and they already grew tired of capeshit years ago. Older teens and adults already know all about Spider-man, Aunt May and all that shit. Some adults will collect everything because they have autism and/or treat comics as an investment. You already know that Batman's parents were shot and he got so salty he became Batman, then threw some homosexual in a vat of acid and he got the Joker. Everyone knows that Superman is from planet Krypton which is filled with a mineral that hurts his race somehow, and he came to earth to work as Clark Kent at a newspaper. Everyone knows everything about these characters who will never, ever change or die and the stories don't have any memorable beats except the origin shit which isn't even interesting.
Meanwhile a manga comes out this year and you go"oh what's this manga" and check it out. And you have an industry that absolutely refuses to do anything new or different except trooning out the same boring shit you don't wanna read.
capeshit's everywhere tho. I think it's not just capeshit but there's zero comics for kids of that demographic. And that's really the keyword here: demographic.
American comics dont sell to age groups. They sell IP's. This is the poison i think cause the demo is def there. Check Dogman and fricking.... tyler perry. He got big making content for what was an unserviced demo. I dont care for his work but there's something to pay attention there.
another example is teen titans vs teen titans go. The demo for the first TT was muddied and marketers didnt know who to advert to. TT Go has an obvious demo and has become the longest running cartoon network show in it's history along with the license to print money on merch and licensing.
Neither can Japan with the new bill that takes money away from manga slaves, animator slaves,and voice actor slaves
>we
No need. WB and Disney will kept their IP mills afloat. It's the only reason DC and Marvel are still in business.
You don't. You have let it suffer. After all, suffering can bring common sense into the industry.
Stock more than capeshit floppies. Stop devoting space to funkoshits.
Capeshit just needs to rebrand with everything starting over with Vol 1 and sticking to it. No more superman #1515 or having to read batman #141 then detective comics #5515 to know what the frick is going on. Zoomers are moronic, they like manga because you buy Naruto 1-28 and it's easy to understand.
Market for morons if you want a wide install base.
They keep trying to reboot, but it never works because they keep the exact same authors and the exact same schedules and the exact same production pipeline. The only way to salvage the situation is not with yet another New52/Marvel NOW, it's giving talented fresh blood the time, money, and resources to make something new. But who is going to do that for Marvel and DC when they could just write their own thing?
>They keep trying to reboot
I’ll take things that aren’t real for $500, Alex
I literally mentioned past failed reboots like the New 52.
>I’ll take things that aren’t real for $500, Alex
What is... Ultimate Spider-man
What is....Spider-man Chapter One
What is...Heroes Reborn
The endless reboots are why we're here in the first place. Notice how nobody has a problem starting Naruto or Jojo at volume 1 and then just reading through to volume 50 or whatever. It's only moronic American capeshit that feels people can't count past 3 so they renumber the volumes every year. Go on Amazon and tell me how many Batman volume 1s there are. It's a fricking joke
I'm just observing trends. You think Spider-Man or Iron Man or Batman would be nearly as popular brands if they were gay or bi? Don't kid yourself.
>"I can't wait to spend money to watch my favorite hero make out with his boyfriend!"
said no preteen or teen boy, ever.
Capeshit like Marvel and DC dying is the only way for the comic industry to be saved as they destroyed the industry by spamming one tired and never that great genre over 80 years
Those two companies dying is a good thing
You'd still be complaining afterwards
Boys and manchildren read capeshit for escapism. It is literally the only purpose of writing your super duper gary stu with all the powers that is intrinsically good and beats all the designated evil people. You want the protags to be blank self-inserts and gay/bisexual men are only 5% of boys.
That said, it is not like boys were going to the comic book store and spending 5 dollars on comic books when they could be playing videogames, or watching Logan Paul or some other Youtuber
>You want the protags to be blank self-inserts and gay/bisexual men are only 5% of boys.
I wouldn't go quite that far. Some of the most popular heroes have distinct personalities. You're not going to confuse Spider-Man or Thor or Superman and Batman. But the main male hero needs to share some superficial traits with the demographic you're chasing. In the case of men, it's heterosexuality. It's like you said: gay/bi men are a low percentage of the population. It doesn't make sense to market a flagship character to them.
>I need a heterosexuality in my hero comics, otherwise I can’t read it because uhhhh it’s the hyper important relatability factor even though sex is literally the least interesting thing to zoomers in entertainment
The level of mental gymnastics people do…
Zoomers only say they want less sex in media because it’s all weird, gay shit now. If they were getting what we got in the 90s and 00s, they’d love it.
Just how much gay sex do you consume to think it’s in abundance in media?
I was thinking of Euphoria and Sex Education on Netflix. Not even titillating stuff, it’s just weird.
>Well, it’s like… two shows. Both of which are about sex as a major selling point! People are sick of it even when that sex was a major selling point!
You should try to listen to what you sound like.
I mean those are usually the two shows that get brought up when Zoomers talk about wanting to see less sex in media marketed to them.
Zoomers say they want less sex in their media because they are fundamentally uncomfortable with intimacy due to an overexposure of porn from a young age, either purposefully or accidentally. They make weird political associations with porn because of their discomfort of it.
The people comfortable with porn also make weird political associations for it
Isn't it more because American is super purity and shames people who enjoy lustful things.
You don't see Europe or Japan having these issues.
Yes, that's an American thing too. But if you look at American Zoomers they are supportive of sex workers, weirdly, but they aren't supportive of porn existing. And the issue they site is people being exposed to porn, not porn in of itself.
you are literally moronic
homosexuals are disgusting and I don't want to see them in my escapist fantasy picture books.
>it started posting from its “gay research” folder again
>Comics: Look at this gay male couple!
>Manga: Jiggle jiggle
They know their demographic.
>They know their demographic.
This. Manga directly appeals to specific genres and its fans. That is much easier to do and it gives manga more variety. DC and Marvel try to appeal to everyone
>DC and Marvel try to appeal to everyone
These media shills are out of control.
That's the intention. Otherwise, they'd clearly say this book is for dudes, this is for comedy fans, this is romance, etc.
He’s not wrong, Marvel and DC are just doing it in the most moronic way possible. They try to cram every single demographic into every single book and instead the appeal to no one since each of those demographics will have to deal with the aspects they want being tangled in the aspects they don’t want. Meanwhile, Shueisha has Jump, but they also have magazines for the other demographics since they know different audiences have different tastes.
>DC and Marvel try to appeal to everyone
They gave up on that almost 10 years ago. They'd rather go after the fanbase for not accepting their shit.
Your best shot is cho. Expect to wait a while.
>Your best shot is cho.
Awful artist, he can only do one face.
Who else can do hot asses AND dinosaurs? Who was the last one to even try?
>DC and Marvel try to appeal to everyone
They only try to appeal to new readers, throwing their existing fanbase under the bus because they know they will buy their comics anyway
Sex sells but it's nauseating to see the same face template over and over again.
Sexy western stuff always has way more appeal because it's varied
>Sexy western stuff always has way more appeal
You must be using some strange definition of "appeal" that I've never heard.
There's a reason you'll never see a western "sexy comic" in the top sellers in America, yet stuff like Nagatoro and Sono Bisque Doll show up pretty regularly.
This stuff about sex is bullshit and a way to discount the whole discussion into porn or pandering to coomers. Shit being sexy or not sexy is not the reason why Western comics are shit or why manga is selling. Women looking like trannies and spewing fourth wave feminist nonsense isn't just not sexy, it's insufferable and boring and it beats you over the head instead of entertaining. The whole thing is that people are buying this shit with cash to get some entertainment from it. The only people who are able to buy this shit and feel something positive from it are hardcore lefties who live a sheltered life and absolutely must virtue signal on how they bought X comic to support the LGBT. Nobody else gives a fricking frick. I want to buy comics to be entertained and so do most normal people. It's not about politics or whether I disagree with gender nonsense or women's rights or any other shit western comics are about these days, this shit is just BORING. This is BORING. I can't imagine looking at a comic and seeing "Superman reveals he's GAY!!!!!!" and feeling all excited, WHAT A TWIST! WAOW I ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO BUY THIS COMIC, I don't give a frick about Superman already because he's fricking boring, making him gay doesn't make him any less boring. This is literally everything that Western comics are about. Boring character is now black or gay. You read 2 lines of dialogue and you wanna literally fricking gouge your eyes out because they're written by people who aren't even human. The people who write dialogue in Western comics are less relatable than shut-in Japanese hikikomori who draw manga, at least they say relatable shit like "I must go on no matter what, even if it costs me everything!" you understand and feel something when you read this sort of drivel, but when a character goes like "oh Katherinx this strawberry frappuccino really makes me feel empowered with feminist vibes. How's your gender today?" I don't wanna read anymore, I don't care.
>I can't imagine looking at a comic and seeing "Superman reveals he's GAY!!!!!!" and feeling all excited, WHAT A TWIST! WAOW I ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO BUY THIS COMIC
Reading Western comics is functionally the same as reading People magazine. No substance and just a bunch of useless text churned out about which narcissists are having sex with each other and what they're identifying as this week. Actually, it's even more pathetic because the gossip is about fictional characters in hideous spandex costumes, not even real celebrities.
You mean when you meet your friends you don't actually greet them by calling them out on their bigotry and correct their wrongthink? Just what kind of trump-voting bigot are you?
>The whole thing is that people are buying this shit with cash to get some entertainment from it. The only people who are able to buy this shit and feel something positive from it are hardcore lefties who live a sheltered life and absolutely must virtue signal on how they bought X comic to support the LGBT.
Pretty much.
This industry is obsessed with exclusively appealing to their friends and no one else.
It's gotten so bad that a lot of women in comics are outright incapable of writing a story that can be enjoyed by men who aren't their friends/ilk.
I hate the whole thing about discounting everything on sex and boobs when a woman in Japan made Full Metal Alchemist which is one of the most beloved series of the past few decades. It's not like Western comics are more mature than anime in any way so don't give me shit about shonen.
>Make our own comics. Make good comics. Succeed.
This is also bullshit because it's literally impossible to succeed when the industry refuses to publish anyone. Sadly if you want to make new media you need a push, marketing, a publisher behind you. Even shit like OPM which started off as a webcomic was supported by a healthy environment where new things are sought after and you have opportunity for making something that people wanna read. The whole industry in the West works extremely hard to push only friends of friends, writers are all a bunch of heavily networked people in East Coast America who have their own bizarre world view and think all the normal people in the rest of the world are Nazis. In the end it all boils down to nepotism. In Japan, like it or not, it's nowhere near good, but at least the market is shaped like a market with a consumer in mind instead of a clique of friends who suck each other off.
It's LITERALLY impossible to make it in the West with comics unless you network with capeshit writers to draw their frappuccino stories or you do porn. The fact that only porn can sell in the West if you're a nobody is a symptom of a heavily gatekept industry that gives 0 visibility and does 0 scouting for interesting shit to publish.
>IT’S IMPOSSIBLE
It’s not. You’re just making up excuses because it’s easier to just be a whiny cuny who b***hes about everything than actually do anything
What have you made? How many publishers have you contacted? Making it online from the ground up is literally impossible unless you prostitute yourself out for years on the very trends that are killing western comics and/or draw porn. It's literally impossible.
>but it’s hard work!!!
Okay so give and STFU about it.
>Shit being sexy or not sexy is not the reason why Western comics are shit or why manga is selling
It's not the only reason, but it absolutely 100% is one of the reasons.
Usually i try to look at the positive side of things when it comes to western comics but DC's determination on pushing average boobs power girl got me down so frick western comics frick em all
>comics flopping
They've had lagging sales since before you were born and they don't care because they make their money from the media and merchandise. Comics are made to just farm ips. These threads are just blatant east vs West threads by the same morons who think Marvel and DC are competing when manga when the reality is the opposite
>they don't care because they make their money from the media and merchandise.
What merchandise? And their movies are bombing. There's nothing of value left.
>media
Is more than just movies you mouthbreathing moron. It includes tv, videogames, ect.
>merchandise
Anything you see with a batman or superman symbol or motif is merchandise and it makes billions annually. Batman alone bring in over 10 billion in sales
>Is more than just movies you mouthbreathing moron. It includes tv, videogames, ect.
Uh-hu...what successful capeshit vidya have we had in the last 5 years?
This may be hard for pearlized brain to understand but gaming is broader than just shit you play on a console or PC. Mobile games, collaboration with other games like Fortnite. It's not not just stand alone games like Arkham.
You can literally fill a cart at Walmart with Batman shit or Spider-Man shit, it’s all over the store. Comics are only published to protect the trademarks on that junk.
Been a long time since I've seen capeshit in Walmart.
I always see this Series at Walmart.
Solo Leveling is dope. Can't wait for the anime.
I see people wear Batman, Superman, and Spiderman shirts all the time.
That's because they never wash said shirts.
True. I didn’t say they were normal.
The only western comics I remember seeing at Walmart are Walking Dead collections and I don't even see those anymore.
>it’s all over the store
Because it isn't selling. The big sellers don't stay on shelves.
Except the media is bombing and the merch isn’t selling. The merch is action figures, toys. And you know who buys those? Boys. You think boys are running to the store, begging their mom or dad to buy them the gay hero action figure? Or the girl boss action figure? Frick no.
Fun fact, Out of the 6 pillars of morality did you know the majority of the left ignore loyalty, authority, and sanctity.
Thought that was a neat little bit of quirky information.
No more capeshit
Everyone is bigots. Unironically. People have ten thousand years of evolution telling them to hate everything that is different and no amount of propaganda will ever change human nature. Simple as.
Increase quality. Low effort cheap as frick shit doesn't fly with the kids.
> seen the new stuff? it's shit, right
Aaand nobody even bothers to buy and check for himself.
I can't remember reading a comic made last decade. One look is enough to say "no, thanks".
>December 13, 2023
Hmm... if only the big two had data about sales before... like a couple of years... like almost a decade before...
https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/37152/marvels-david-gabriel-2016-market-shift
I don't know what you can do to save it, but the big two have signaled they don't want to change and deny the problem exists, while retailers who are complaining don't seem to have the conviction to walk away. It doesn't seem wise to help people who won't help themselves.
>IT’S DYING
>IT’S DYING I SWEAR
>IT’S DYING THIS TIME I’M SURE
>IT’S DYING I KNOW IT IS
>IT’S DYING BECAUSE IT FEELS RIGHT
>IT’S DYING BECAUSE I CANNOT BE WRONG AGAIN ABOUT THIS
>IT’S DYING LIKE I HAVE KEPT SAYING FOR YEARS AND REPEATEDLY WAS PROVEN WRONG BUT THIS TIME IS DIFFERENT
>IT’S DYING. IT. JUST. IS.
Any minute now. This time it’s totally gonna happen.
As long as they keep fudging the charts with manga sales we can all keep pretending that comics are BETTER THAN EVER!
Manga are comics.
An entirely separate industry with its own business model.
Are DC and Marvel publishing Manga?
No?
Then have a nice day!
In 1908, caramels were the most popular candy in the United States.
In 1950, 50% of all Americans were smokers.
In 1975, the biggest toy craze was Star Wars action figures.
Would anyone call these living industries today? Do you need to fricking see the last buyer of the last cigarette die at age 112 before you say an industry is dead?
The industry isn’t dead nor is it dying.
It's been dead for 30 years
You're saying that no one eats caramels or smokes?
Market shrinking and changing doesn’t mean death. You’re being hysterical. Take a valium.
>Market shrinking and changing doesn’t mean death
Okay....
WB isn’t facing a shrinking market, do you just type random words on the keyboard like a fricking imbecile?
>WB isn’t facing a shrinking market,
No, they're just losing the market because they can't hire people who can write stories worth a damn.
Anime has already killed WB's animation department. That's a direct concession by WB that they're not good enough to compete with Eastern animators.
>That's a direct concession by WB that they're not good enough to compete with Eastern animators.
I mean senior animators get paid $500/month and have to live in subsidized low-income apartments. And they still won't quit their jobs.
You can't compete with those salaries in the US.
Dying is a form of changing, yeah.
Big 2 comics = SHIT
Saved
Fricking hilarious how weebs keep coming to a board about western comics and cartoons for some reason with the same shitty threads. Like why are you so I secure over liking weebshit you obsess over western comics?
I don't even read Manga, but I still admit it is superior to comics, as it would be impossible for anything to be worse than modern day comics.
>Verification not required
Your industry is dying. You're frantically denying it, thinking it has some value to people. It's funny to see you sperg out.
>dying
Oh and this is half of what ALL japanese. Media makes by itself. That includes manga, anime, games, music.....
Your numbers are a bit off there m8.
And lol at them losing literally billions of dollars last year.
>weeb ignores assets and equity
I'm sure WBD's $48 billion in equity will be great against their $60+ billion in debt.
Stick to talking about dudes in tights.
>debt
Almost every major company has debt, even Microsoft has debt. Debt isn't a bad thing. Please stop showing how little you know
>Having $60+ billion in debt that you aren't paying off at all while losing $8+ billion a year because your company is run by morons isn't a bad thing
Again, stick to talking about men in tights.
Please you dumb moron, just stop. No company makes it a point to pay off debt. Debt is their credit rating and tax liability, it benefits them to have debt. Also majority of that debt is from the recent merger by Discovery
You fricking moron, debt benefits them if they're MAKING MONEY and pleasing their shareholders.
And WBD's credit rating is fricking shit right now for such a large company.
If they're losing $8 billion a year and have a poor outlook for the next decade, no, having lots of debt doesn't help them you stupid frick, hence why AT&T chose to offload all their debt onto Discovery to begin with when they sold WB.
$60 billion in debt is enormous, you do realise that debt means you have to pay interest
And WB does NOT have anywhere near Microsoft amounts of revenue, or money in the bank
>Net Income -7.29 billion
lel, these companies are nothing but piles of debt at this point, and to further their misery, they're killing the value of their IP by rebooting it as woke shit
I’ve read both. Manga is superior to the big 2.
>Cinemaphile was created as an unofficial English-language counterpart to the Japanese imageboard Futaba Channel, also known as 2chan, and its first boards were originally used for posting images and discussion related to anime.
Tell me where it says Cinemaphile is a website dedicated to weeb shit. Tell me why this means weeb homosexuals can be homosexuals outside of their containment board. Tell me if moot is still the owner
Imagine being this insecure. Also, you must be 18 to post on this board.
>not found:anime website
for one thing, reliance on specialist destination outlets is the biggest factor in keeping people from making impulse purchases
nobody's gonna go on a whim to that strip mall on the edge of town where the guys who don't wash hang out, and the big comic shops are by no means the majority since 1993 (but they will be the last survivors as they've likely got sufficient capital to pivot to sales of other shit to the same crowd)
say you go from selling 50 titles a month via 3500 LCS at an average revenue of $3.5m (Marvel's Feb 2022 is the model here, but picked at random) and $5,833 average revenue per title individually; you're barely selling 2 copies of each title in every store (in real terms this means most stores simply never order some of your titles, meaning they aren't worth targeting as audience)
but to then go to those 3500 LCS and the 18000 newsstands in the US - where people are still going anyway, let alone the more general retailers that also stock periodicals - potentially opens your impulse buy sales to double what you're already selling
this is hard to quantify and wouldn't work with 50 titles, because newsstands won't carry that many a month without proof of demand, but if you had even 8/month it could still boost sales massively over what's currently happening
the question is whether cutting the line to 8/month (which also saves on costs but does mean dropping a lot of employees) can produce works which have mass appeal to make up for those lost sales, and whether your LCS buyers will continue to buy those 8/month (realistically most are probably buying 8/month now but the plurality of titles has them spoiled for choice to the point that different stores are effectively buying different 8/month in; combining/dropping them may not be popular)
Millar knows all this, he's just shitposting
>If we just go back to newsstands impulse buyers will save the industry!
It’s absolutely amazing how every idiot posting here is mentally stuck in 1980s.
Oh don't get me fricking started on that
The worst are the ones who think that all the comic shops need to be closed down and then comics will sell in grocery stores once again
>Propaganda tool needs to turn a profit.
By decoupling the industry from brick and mortar stores and physical media. It's way past time we had comics on phones.
Let it burn.
Can you give me a rundown, anon?
what comments were deleted?
See for yourself.
https://desuarchive.org/co/thread/141220657/
what if they made a big book every month that wasnt on glossy stock or whatever to safe money and it printed some comics that came out last month all in one bunch so people who don't want to drive to the store 4 times a month to grab their pull list can grab the bigger book the month later to get their story
Nobody would buy it. Because it would either be half full of homosexual/POC shit or it would be half full of poorly drawn trash nobody actually wants.
Anthologies don’t work because the product is divisive. The reason it works in Japan is because they try to entertain rather than divide. There’s a sincerity to their work that is focused on creation not denigration and instigation.
i like reading the hulk and daredevil
And you would pay for
The time to do print anthologies may have passed. It's not that the idea wouldn't work, it's just that there is a better alternative - a free digital magazine. Anthologies, at least the way the Japanese implement them, are typically loss leaders. They are sold at cost. So doing a free digital magazine would be less of a hassle, and potentially reach a far bigger audience.
The only real argument for the big 2 to pursue a print anthology is to keep the direct market in business, so that there is a robust retail outlet for their collected trades. But by all appearances, the people in control at the big 2 want the DM dead and sell through bookstores, so there's little motivation to do it.
Imagine an alternate history where the hays code and comics code doesn't exist would american comics and cartoons be as lewd as japanese manga and anime?
People bought the book because it had a Bat-family character in it. Damian could've starred alongside Aqualad and the book'd still be printing money.
Kind of sad that we still have capeshit shills on Cinemaphile after all the gay and trans-shit Marvel and DC has been pushing.
They are desperate. Alot of them pretend to be Batgays too. It’s fricking pathetic. They rather burn everything to the ground and send payed shills to every corner of the internet than change. Shit company.
>posting an article by McGroin
>implying his work isn't any worse then Heidi MacDonald
And Heidi McDonald is bad because…?
what the frick is a heidi mcdonald
corrupt journalist and cancel piggie
A worthless fat ugly c**t that should commit to post term abortion on herself.
Imagine a drug addicted 40 year old who looks like she used to suck dick for cheap pot. Then imagine she did a DBZ fusion dance with Roz from Monsters Inc. then you kinda have a clue of what she looks like.
And of course she hates comics made for straight people and loves BIPOC LTBG propaganda comics
Tl;dr REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Doesn’t really explain much but at least you tried.
>all the Pepe Siliva shit itt
Aww sweet, it's another schizo thread
YOU WILL NEVER BE JAPANESE
Shit has gotten so stupid, Mark Millar the goatlicker in chief is starting to sound like a voice of reason.
They’re trying to collapse the direct market on purpose.
Reanimate Jim Shooter's corpse and put him in charge of both DC and Marvel.
He’s not dead anon.
Make him dead and then reanimate him.
Apparently this place has turned so schizo you can’t even understand wtf tinfoil hat chuds are even seething anymore.
Just lurk more. You'll get it.
You are correct that it's not about debt by itself, but anon gave a D/E ratio for an industry that averages closer to .9, and their credit rating reflects that.
And do you have confidence WB/Disco's plan?
Former big 2 editor, current rag writer. A thing that is at least 40 percent milkshake.
What is a "milkshake"? A political leftist activist who would probably be throwing one laced with concrete at a protest, or is it slang for something else?
A handful of women at working at Marvel went out for milkshakes for an occasion I can’t remember and posted a selfie of it and certain comic guys have been melting down about it ever since
those were concrete milkshakes they were planning to throw at straight white men!
Why? Why did these women say?
They're responsible for destroying DC and Marvel.
True but people wouldn't erupt without provocation.
hard to say honestly. but if dc and marvel want to appeal to a female demographic like they want too then they should take inspiration form magical girl manga
Don't worry, I'm sure the women, ethnic minorities, and LBGTA+ community will someday replace the dying Straight Male demographic that DC and Marvel desperately wants to get rid of and cater to now instead the audience that always bought their product. We just want to wait a little bit longer. Trust, anon.
The silly thing is they’d be more apt to buy OGNs and digital comics. If they just stopped making their paper backs and book store releases collected versions of floppies and focused each release format on the fans of each they’d thrive in both markets.
LCS sales would explode if they didn’t all get collected within a year and were focused on being written for non-woke readers. Paperbacks would sell better if they weren’t collections and were instead all original and could only be bought in bookstores or online for good prices. LCSs already can barely sell trades because they sell sticker price rather than online discount prices.
If they packaged entire arcs quarterly in giant sized reprints with prestige binding and a cheaper per page costs for LCS’s rather than making them paper backs for bookstores they’d also sell well and everyone wins.
Instead they insist on killing the floppy market out of spite just so they can then subsidize some of their printing and distribution costs on paper backs which allows them to sell them for cheap to big accounts like B&N and Amazon. Essentially forcing all of the floppies to cater to a secondary release audience who may or may not buy any of it and especially when you get to paperback releases any volume past 1 or 2 gets dismal returns because if you miss volume 1 of a paperback release for an ongoing you will not buy beyond that. If you make sure to buy 1-3 of a run and then 4 gets under printed and you never get to finish it because they restart the rerelease in an “absolute” format or just put out an Omni you’ll never return to any of them at all which is why their trade departments are horrible.
TLDR; Anything sold in paper back format should be self-contained and original to that format
Anything sold in the floppy/ongoing format should never be collected in paper back and should only ever get Floppy exclusive prestige bound giants for yearly collection to satiate “trade waiters”.
I don't think so. When normies pick up a cool-looking Batman or Spider-Man book at the bookstore, do you think they care whether it's an original graphic novel or a collection of previously-released floppies? There's no difference to most people. Floppies would die completely if they weren't collected, not the other way around.
>When normies pick up a cool-looking Batman or Spider-Man book at the bookstore, do you think they care whether it's an original graphic novel or a collection of previously-released floppies? There's no difference to most people
Not true at all. You completely ignored my reasoning for your shitpost, Ren. If they don’t get a complete story - since runs almost never closure of any sort at the end of individual 6-20 issue arcs -and they can’t get volume 2 or beyond because of under printing they’ll never buy another. They’re left unfulfilled and either read for free or stop reading them at all.
>Floppies would die completely if they weren't collected, not the other way around.
There is zero logic to this statement at all, it’s completely antithetical to consumer behavior. Streaming, and protracted home release before it, cutting into box office releases for two decades has proven this in the film market and floppy sales are similarly effected by people not finding worth in spending 4-5 times 6-8 for a trades worth of comics if they can just buy it twio or three times a year.
Nothing you said is based in reality you’re here to push your divisive homosexualry and derail and actual discussion.
have a nice day.
>Floppies would die completely if they weren't collected, not the other way around.
What the frick? It IS the other way around. If sales are so low on a monthly comic and there's no other way they can see to recoup it, then they don't bother reprinting it in a TPB.
Original anon here, so NTA, the point I was making is that floppy sales are hurt by trades existing. “Trade waiters” would need to shit or get off the pot if they had nothing to “wait” for any more. I reckon more would start buying than giving up the format. Or they’d buy the giants I proposed and they’d become giant-waiters. But allowing them to wait for trades that are already a discounted release format and then only buy them on sale has made them less likely to spend monthly.
As it stands while I hate them I understand why trade waiters wait.
>The Virgin Floppy Buyer vs. The Chad Trade Waiter
>Anything sold in paper back format should be self-contained and original to that format
>Anything sold in the floppy/ongoing format should never be collected in paper back and should only ever get Floppy exclusive prestige bound giants for yearly collection to satiate “trade waiters”.
If nothing else we’d at least see which product sells better and which market is thriving more.
What if I don't want to read capeshit
You gotta dig, or you're shit outta luck
This. Most of the good non-cape comics I've found I had to dig for.
For manga, any new series is put on the front cover of the magazine and at the top of the table of contents. So everyone sees it and can read it. From their it can grow fans.
you make your own race look like morons everytime you post that.
Stop posting this shit. It has NOTHING to do with anything.
We don’t. Let it die.
They need better marketing to pursue new audiences. The strategy they're on now is good, since their old audience will literally die out within a few decades, but they aren't doing enough to attract all the readers of girl's love and boy's love manga.
>within a few decades
It’s wild you think that’s worth ignoring as if those aren’t the people with the most expendable income. Sure,instead they should focus on a demographic with no expendable income and zero propensity to spend what little money they do have.
What a moronic take, kwanza. have a nice day. Stream it. I’ll tip and subscribe.
>but they aren't doing enough to attract all the readers of girl's love and boy's love manga.
Anon, they're literally never, ever going to attract that audience because that audience wants cute characters, which the big 2 is incapable of providing.
Really, they waited to long to try any real new strategy to attract new audiences, all the potential audiences they could have pivoted to are better served elsewhere these days.
>because that audience wants cute characters, which the big 2 is incapable of providing.
There are tens of thousands of artists posting on Tumblr, Twitter, etc. all the time. They could hire any of them to make cute chibi characters if they wanted to.
>They could hire any of them to make cute chibi characters if they wanted to.
But they won't.
The people buying manga, like those buying comics, are 20-50 years old. The people reading manga for free online, like comics, are 12-40. While there is some overlap the people reading for free do not have the income to spend on anything.
What was once a strength, the diversity of authors and writers capable of telling and showing a huge variety of stories about all these different characters, is now a weakness. Each writer comes in trying to make their permanent mark in the legacy of the character or franchise, meaning they do more and more to upend, rewrite, or complicate what was already there so that they stand out. What makes it worse is that the reaction to the Hal Jordan issue convinced the editors that you cannot pass on a legacy to a new character and have to keep the same characters, looking the same age, living the same life, for 50 years and counting.
You know, if American superhero comics were healthy they could've just transitioned to a fully digital model and found a massive internet audience. Why didn't they during the webcomic boom?
WHO? I feel like I see this schizo shit way more often now, people will just attribute random posts to real people, at least I hope they are real, who the frick Ren supposed to be
>D-Don’t call me out personally while I’m trying to do my job
No no go ahead and lose the weight c**t
No really this is the schizo shit I mean, genuinely who is Ren? Is he real? Can you prove it? This shit happens so often on this site now, it's actually insane.
it could survive as a niche thing for boomers. they can never go mainstream again anyway because zoomers and the younger audience only read manga. its fricking impossible to convert manga readers into comic readers.
tldr dont ask too much. think about surviving as a niche industry.
We can't honestly. The direct market is done for and will only bring comics down with it if they stay with it. I'm not happy to see them go but that's just reality
Manga absolutely decimates comics in every way possible. It's like throwing a toddler into the ring with a heavy-weight boxer. Manga eats Kobe steak, comics eat shit.
>absolutely ass devastated
don't hate the player, hate the game
because unless you are a over 50yo boomer such "everything must be western" people dont exist today. giving that the comic/cartoon industry deserves to die.
Manga is of better quality. And the sales prove it.
And it makes less money than what DC and Marvel bring in.
No it doesn't. Are you moronic?
The manga market is around 13 billion
Marvel makes 1.3 billion JUST from Spider-man and DC makes 11 million off JUST Batman
Anon, how much of that money is the comic books?
You dipshit we're not talking about toy sales. We're not talking about cartoons. You homosexual, if the comics aren't selling they can keep doing toys and cartoons while shuttering the fricking comic books! There's no reason to keep a dinosaur industry around when you can just lance it like a fricking boil!
They continue to make the comics because they can and because they can be a source of new IPs to adapt. The only morons wanting to turn it into a competition are fricking annoying weebs insecure of their love of weebshit and want to parade it as better in regards to something not even competing with weebshit and making more money than it anyway.
>and because they can be a source of new IPs to adapt.
Lol
Lmao
>They continue to make the comics because they can and because they can be a source of new IPs to adapt.
Adapting the newer shit is why the Marvels completely imploded. They've skipped past the good stories, and now comics are actively dragging the MCU down.
Imagine having your head shoved this far up your own ass.
You're counting live action. It's the only reason why capeshit matters these days.
>DC and Marvel shit on whatever money manga makes with their other revenue streams
>weebs only cope is to say comics sell worse than manga as if either DC or Marvel care.
More ratio variants.
Can current capeshit even compare to the stuff currently in WSJ?
I wanna see something about a scandly clad jungle girl and her futuristic humanoid T-Rex father fighting off shit in a post-apocalyptic world.
and she looks sexy and normal outside of her T-Rex fangs that she uses to bite off heads of robots and mutants. That would make the porn much hotter.
Man, remember the 90s and 00s when you could genuinely unironically make a comkc like that without provoking a warzone?
In the past, you could. These days, you'll get crucified for even saying "this is for a male audience" or something. DC and Marvel won't touch that stuff.
You can't... well not really unless the real issue is addressed. Technology and advancement are killing the industry. First, there were video stores, then franchised video stores killed off the mom & pops. Then video stores, CDs, cassette tapes... all fell to the wayside due to the internet and being able to simply download what you want to watch.
These old geezers want you to think it's "woke" or whatever bullshit they want to think it is. The good ole days are gone. Adapt or die.
They are choosing to be the old man on the porch screaming about the good old days of yesteryear.
Frick that! Why live their lives for them? As long as people keep blaming 'current times' that their old out-of-date medium is falling out of favor: failure is all but promised.
Hate won't fix the issue.
So why is Manga doing so well while Marvel and DC are eating shit?
It sounds like the medium is still sound, and profitable. So explain this to me, dipshit.
>So why is Manga doing so well while Marvel and DC are eating shit?
They have anime to advertise their comics. That's it. That's how Demon Slayer sold so fricking well. The manga was doing well but exploded after the anime premiered on Netflix and the like.
This. Also, having more than one genre helps.
>Regarding the series' sudden huge success, Weekly Shōnen Jump editor-in-chief Hiroyuki Nakano stated that the manga sales shot up straight after its anime adaptation finished, explaining that a large number of people watched the series through streaming services after it ended rather than watching it weekly. Nakano also stated that it is harder for a manga series running in the magazine to become a hit, and Demon Slayer: Kimetsu no Yaiba despite having started in February 2016, did not become a major hit until late 2019, adding that its success "hinged on word of mouth generated after the anime's run".[169]
It's that fricking easy.
Anons...
A manga has to be successful in order to get an anime in the first place...
Here's another good question though. How come Manga gets a big boost from the anime, but Marvel sales stayed in the shitter despite the success of the MCU? If what you're saying is even remotely true, then that's a clear fricking contradiction!
Because the rule of Anime adaptations is that you can watch the Show and pick up from there with the manga
So why didn't the MCU generate any fricking interest in the comics?
Because the comics are shit. Anime adaptations are usually copies of what's in the books.
Because multiple generations have grown up hardly ever seeing a comic, or only associating them with nerds and confusing reading orders.
>So why didn't the MCU generate any fricking interest in the comics?
Because they didn't advertise them at all.
Neither does anime.
the anime is the advertisement. Jump also makes videos to promote the manga. Like this
?si=bHydHJ5EbuxZ38wo
>Neither does anime.
You dumb motherfricker, anime IS the advertisement. Don't you remember watching Dragon Ball Z on VHS and seeing all those advertisements for manga, movies, games, and shirts?
>Look up the manga
>Appreciate the subtle differences from the anime and maybe get a new chapter or detail the series left out.
>Look up the comic
>The obly thing it has in common with the comic is the name.
Why can't we do that? MHA has a seasonal show and has anime films, too. Will Invincible get movies?
>How come Manga gets a big boost from the anime
Generally the anime doesn't start until there's already been a decent amount of chapters published of the manga, so it's easy for people to pick up from where the anime left off once their interest in the story has been piqued.
>Marvel sales stayed in the shitter despite the success of the MCU
The movie series is easier to keep up with than the comic books they're supposed to be advertising. A lot of the audience for these movies are also the lowest common denominator who has no interest in reading anything.
>A manga has to be successful in order to get an anime in the first place...
Tell that to Undead Unluck.
Are you moronic? How can you make this point then ignore the commercial success of Marvel movies? Hell even DC pumps out a shit tonne of movies as well. Using your own logic comics should have received a massive influx of new buyers.
People also seem to forget that DC at least also pumps out lots of animated movies on a pretty regular basis, but they still don't really move the needle for the comics.
All the advertising in the world can't save a product that no one likes.
You mean all those Marvel movies that are a WASH at the box office?
>wash
>made millions
They are only called failures because Disney wants infinite money.
Dude...if something cost you 250+ million to make, and it only brought in like 120 million...it was a wash.
No actually that is a definition of a flop.
A wash is a net-zero gain when you only make back what it cost.
However since most investors own stakes in the companies that support the industry (marketing/catering/sfx/etc) they aren't really losing that much. Spend 250+ mil to make it, half of which goes back into their other companies, make another 120 mil on the box office flop, only a 5 mil loss spread across multiple investors. Not that bad. If the movie is a wash, then they make profit. And if it's successful, then party time.
One thing that kinda bothers me is how we nerds celebrate when a bad movie loses a few millions when the top people are billionnaires. If a movie loses, say, 250 million dollars then they can absorb it easily. They can fund a bunch of passion project flops and not have their quality of life affected. And we're like "a wallet was dented. A great victory for our culture."
>These old geezers want you to think it's "woke" or whatever bullshit they want to think it is
"We don't need to adhere to storytelling basics nor appeal to the customer because we're chasing the twitter zeitgeist" is a problem no matter how much that twitter zeitgeist insists it isn't.
>"We don't need to adhere to storytelling basics nor appeal to the customer because we're chasing the twitter zeitgeist" is a problem no matter how much that twitter zeitgeist insists it isn't. (Your quote)
Look at yourself, still yapping about crap that just serves as a distraction. Comic Books are falling out of favor because you idiots keep them from growing and attaching themselves to the progress of society. You're the reason they are dying out. Because you don't like change.
You could simply say "Hey, it's been a while but I think it's ok to bring some sexy back to comics." But instead, you dumb idiots say this instead. "OH NOOOO it's the WOKE MOB, I wanna see big fat breasts! And, let me show you the tons of degrading comic book images that make comics comics!"
I mean you guys are just hanging yourself listening to old-ass mofo's who just want to keep everything the same until the day they die.
There comes a time when you can't go to that 'club' anymore because you age out. Or some lines just don't work on women anymore because it's not 20 years ago.
Comic books evolve and go through periods, they only adapt if people focus on the actual medium and not the mumbo-jumbo latest youtube video essay stating WOKE V/S Jesus! absurd bullshit.
These folks are invested in getting you mad. If there were to be a solution they'd stop making money! So they need you farm rage and you dupes fall for it every time.
Well unless you catch on, you're going to kill your own industry.
Black person, I'm just reading manga instead. I wouldn't be if 50 year old manchildren weren't insisting that the central thesis of Spider-Man was to be a cucked loser living with his Aunt and refuse to deviate from their beloved 'formula.'
Stop projecting these people's bullshit onto us, you moron. The writers and editors hate change even more than we do, they just think that basic b***h pandering is enough to trick Zoomers into eating their slop.
>Well unless you catch on, you're going to kill your own industry.
Good. It's not my job to save this fricking shithole of an industry. I have no power here. Let it die, I'll just read Chainsaw Man. Frick you.
I dropped all my spidey pulls at One More Day because they did that. I thought Quesada was going to be the worst thing that ever happened to Marvel but they worked hard to prove that theory wrong.
They're doing actual genocide apologism right now in order to prop up Paul fricking Rabin and yet losers like
insist that we're the toxic ones in this relationship.
All I want is a vaguely readable book, and these morons are insisting that slapping a single rainbow flag on a two year long arc of character assassination means I'm obligated to pretend it's good.
Zeb Wells has serious issues with women, it's clear with how he writes Mary-Jane. But apparently the problem is me, the guy who stopped buying their stuff ages ago and b***hes on Cinemaphile every now and then.
I'm happy that Marvel and DC are dying, and I lose nothing I still care about if they do end up dying.
>You could simply say "Hey, it's been a while but I think it's ok to bring some sexy back to comics."
It's not actually about sexy. The decline in sexuality is a symptom, not the disease itself. The problem is, fundamentally, nobody who is writing mainstream comics has any basic understanding of storytelling, of characterization, of setup and payoff, etc. Those concerns are at the very bottom of their list. All mainstream cape comics today is just outrage-bait aimed at old fans and mirroring twitter trends and language. The powers that be believe that is what will save comics, and therefore there is little prioritization of the actual point, which is to tell an appealing adventure story.
Now, what came first, chicken or egg? Did comics go bad and introduced wokeness (serves dual purpose of outrage-baiting old fans and mirroring twitter) as a Hail Mary, or did the woke types infiltrate and destroy comics because they value social power over the product? I'd tend to think both are caused by a third factor, a general cultural malaise that is affecting everything, not just comics. Because the outrage-bait formula does indeed stretch pretty far back into the past, but at the same time, now that outrage-bait can be framed as noble the problem was exacerbated.
Regardless: until Marvel and DC decide they want to make a product that people actually want to buy, they will continue to lose what little they do still have. And the way to make a cape comic people want to buy is to make them have an emotional connection to the character, their struggles, and their triumphs. Modern Marvel and DC cannot even do that when they ARE pandering: see the Jon discussion and their complete inability to actually capture the western fujoshi audience. They are worst at yaoi tension than the average shonen aimed at heterosexual males!
>>The powers that be believe that is what will save comics
I don't get the sense that DC and Marvels editorial staff really thinks their comics will ever "go mainstream" or whatever. It felt halfhearted even back when the New 52 launched, and nowadays the vibe feels more like they're just trying not to drown.
>We don't need to adhere to storytelling basics nor appeal to the customer because we're chasing the twitter zeitgeist
There is some truth to this
A lot of people like to say that a manga is successful because it has variety in genres
When in reality a lot of those genres just don't reach the same main stream appeal as shounen
Anon, shounen isn't a genre.
might as well be one at this point
Anon, please stop making it so obvious that you don't actually read anything.
how am i wrong?
Because you're talking about something you clearly know nothing about.
As usual, everything but the propaganda aspect.
What can publishers besides DC and Marvel do?
Manga is a growing industry
Comics is a dying industry
Case closed
This. Manga doesn't obsessively chase a toxic and corrosive Xwitter zeitgeist, it cancels what doesn't sell, and it allows for a consistent writer and artist to work on the book for years.
maybe if they did anything besides capeshit they will sell more?
How can capeshit stay interesting and relevant after 50+ years of serialization?
The same stupid characters over and over again that hardly age and you can't kill or write off because that's the only thing that pull the few loyal fans that you have left.
I'm amazed they don't copy Manga more.
A lot of western slop tends to do that anyway.
saw a speedrun of this game the other day and it was awful, nothing but quippy lines while fighting big monsters that are hardly a threat to you and then the guy went directly to skip 5 cut scenes in a row with loading times between them.
You can't blame it on the fans though. They've been desperate to 'fire' all their fans and pull in new audiences through basic b***h social justice pandering.
It turns out the old, obese, out of touch boomers were actually the people writing this fricking garbage. Have you seen a picture of Dan Slott and the like? He's absolutely a fatass comics CHUD.
This is pretty on-point.
Manga focuses on unique stories of all genres. Comics is just burly men in tights.
>Manga focuses on unique stories of all genres
So are comics, but you don't care because it's not being advertised to you in the form of cartoons.
99% of the people have to dig to just find non capeshit comics. Normies aren't gonna go through the effort.
Manhwa is in the same boat.
i have no interest in capeshit
That's because you don't actually want to read anything, you just want your gay east/west war anon.
NTA but i enjoy these threads. I love comics and am an oldgay and want to get into comics write/drawing and FRICKING lettering my own book. These threads are an amazing glimpse into the business practices that can change the course and win.
And this is coming from someone who doesnt want to do capeshit.
Not him, but I don't care because a lot of the comics in other genres I'm interested in frick up their appeal by adding shit I don't like.
A good example being pic related.
>Hmm, we're going to make a comic about a specific sport, what should we add to it?
>Lots and lots of gay romance of course!
Comic publishers just simply do not understand how demographics work, period.
>Hmm, we're going to make a comic about a specific sport, what should we add to it?
>>Lots and lots of gay romance of course!
every sports shounen lmao
I don't think I've ever read a sports shounen manga that's full of gay romance.
yuri on ice is the first thing that comes to mind
Yuri on Ice isn't shounen.
In fact, it's not even a manga, Yuri on Ice was an anime original.
Yeah I remember that 20 minute long sex scene between Yuri and Victor.
Very progressive of Japan to air that on public TV.
>every sports shounen
Not Eyeshiield 21
not captain tsubasa
You don't understand how demographics work, that's a comic for women, not you. The yaoi genre is for women by women, what the hell did you expect?
Anon, that comic is listed online as a sports comic.
a yuri sports comics.
LGBTQ+ Graphic Novels (Books) on Amazon. (Manga)(Yaoi/Boy's Love) on some Filipino online comic shop.
Are you implying that the only way women would read a fencing comic is by adding random gay sex?
No, I'm saying that comic is yaoi first and sports second.
>>Lots and lots of gay romance of course!
Unironically every fight manga featuring a fightsexual. Everyone thinks Ryu from SF and Chris Redfield are homosexuals because the Japanese can't into normal human relations and I hate it.
Bro, I don't recall any dudes making out in Street Fighter or Resident Evil.
That's the point, there is none. But the Japanese think making their heroes sexless autismos on autopilot is fricking cool.
thats because it IS fricking cool, you gay. The frick do i want romance between guile and chunli?
NTA but it's probably one of the gayest if not the gayest thing in anime. Whenever romance is involved, one character absolutely needs to go full moron to prevent anything resembling a relationship from happening, all because of otaku. AFAIK idols can't have boyfriends or something 'cause the simps stop shelling money on merch lol
LOW QUALITY gay romance.
Yuri isn't shonen. No pun intended.
>Not him, but I don't care because a lot of the comics in other genres I'm interested in frick up their appeal by adding shit I don't like.
I don't see how that's any different than manga. I for one hate how it's almost always shit about teenage zoomers with moronic hairdos fighting giant monsters is the only thing that ever gets popular.
The difference is that manga is so much wider in range in the first place, and keeps and prunes works by fan sales/interest, and doesn't subsidize losers forever.
The fact that it's far easier to find war comics in japan than the country with AMERICA FRICK YEAH comics is frankly astounding.
>and doesn't subsidize losers forever.
That's probably the worst thing about it because the only thing morons buy is fight shonen shit.
I think the problem is that you don't really know anything about the manga market and think it's like comics where only 4-5 publishers are at all relevant and everything not published by them gets cancelled after a few weeks.
>The fact that it's far easier to find war comics in japan than the country with AMERICA FRICK YEAH comics is frankly astounding.
Exciting and dynamic action is one thing American comics are largely shit at. Art is either too stiff or looks like a tumblr comic strip.
Easy.
1. Make all comic art be black and white to save costs.
2. Force Grocery stores and toy stores to put comics at the checkout. That way parents and kids can see it and buy it an impulse buy.
3. Have commercials on tv 24/7 advertising the comics.
4. Have advertisements on YouTube videos.
5. Pay big YouTubers, Twitch Streamers, and celebrities to shill comics.
6. Sell comics for $2.50
7. Make LCS have plenty of bright lights and look casual friendly.
8. Put more comics in magazine aisles.
9. Have more variety of comic genres.
10. Put more comics in libraries
11. Reboot all comics to start at #1 and never relaunch a comic at #1 ever again. Make continuity easy for casual audiences.
Boom. Comcis saved. You’re welcome.
>1. Make all comic art be black and white to save costs.
NO
this is actually a good idea because now the content comes out faster and if the book does gangbusters you can release it in hardback WITH color for you absolute morons that demand your saturation.
Why must a sports comic have gay dudes and homosexual romance in it?
Gay people do sports too.
Yes and? They're still only a single digit minority in the population and don't need to be a star in a sports comic.
It's yuri and doesn't target guys. That existing is good since they can watch and enjoy that even though I wouldn't touch it.
>It's yuri
Anon, stop using terms you clearly don't understand.
Yuri = lesbian, yaoi = gay
Whoops, my bad. Still, you get my point
No, I don't. Nothing wrong with gay comics existing, but that's not exactly the appealing to the mainstream that anon and anon insist western comics are trying. It's far easier to find gay comics than western sports comics in general.
It’s doing so well it went from a miniseries to an ongoing book and now is released in original graphic novels. So keep crying, the success of the series will be laughing to you on its way to the bank.
Why don’t you go cry yourself to sleep again because the gays won’t let you enjoy a fencing comic?
No matter how much you gnash your teeth at me, your fetish will never be normal. I've pointed out why a fricking sports book is shit because of unneeded gay shit in it, and it will never appeal to the mainstream. While other anons have mentioned that manga is winning by offering different genres of publications that don't need to descend to your gay shit to sell it to the a wide audience.
Fence is a success so your homophobic seething only further shows how pathetic you are.
Post the sales number of your gay book anon, does it crack the top 50 in the monthly's?
>IT WOULD BE A TOP TEN COMIC IS IT WASN’T GAY!!!!
LOL
LMAO even
>no numbers posted
Just as I thought.
That’s a lot of square meters that gay comic keeps occupied in your brain
>coping because got called out on your low sales gay comic
>Fence is a success
Bah. Actual Japanese comics explicitly labelled for women dwarf it by far. It's easy to be a success selling 10 when everything else is selling 0, that's the state of western comics.
Fujobucks mostly for Japan reasons.
Like how Magical girl shows tend to lean towards Yuri.
For me it's Heather Antos, who works at IDW, recently retweeting that made-up graph showing comics are selling better than ever... despite the fact IDW had to layoff nearly half it's workforce this year.
It's crazy to me how comic readers want to save the industry more than the people who actually work IN the industry do.
Make a cartoon of pic related and don't kill her if they ever adapt the revival
I still can't find a manga as cool as Hellblazer.
Kill all these shitty old licensed characters instead of turning them into trannies and serialize actually interesting stories. Go the manga way. New shit that starts and ends, and then there's a new thing. You cannot milk fricking Superman forever he needs to fricking die
Even if you advertise the comics, no one will still read them. Or very few will pick them up and then drop them because it’s still shit. I stopped reading Manga ages ago, but I remember not being as frustrated with the writing and handling of the characters.
I find it funny that the way western comics try to add variety is by shoving in LGBT gays into their stories, the only thing that it does is alienate the existing fans.
Why can't they just move away from superhero stories instead of try and make them appealing to an nonexistence audience?
>Why can't they just move away from superhero stories instead of try and make them appealing to an nonexistence audience?
Because that would require gambling with time and money on something that could potentially flop. It's a business after all and its the reason why we keep getting the same shit over and over.
>Because that would require gambling with time and money on something that could potentially flop
they are already flopping anon, and shoving gays into their plotlines isn't helping.
>I find it funny that the way western comics try to add variety is by shoving in LGBT gays into their stories
They can't even do demographics right.
They look at manga and see, look they have gays and sell!! But the manga with gays that sell follow the cishet female fantasy down to a T, are made by cishet females, sell to cishet females, and in no way are associated with actual gays. Pic related. Yaoi has way more in common with 50 Shades of Grey and other bodice rippers for women than the LGBT shit that's pushed in western comics. But this truth upsets the queers and the trannies, because if they admit there's comics for cishet females then they have admit there's also comics for cishet males, and we can't have that.
exactly what I mean, I hate homos as much as the next guy, if it was up to me I'd have them all shot against the wall.
But I understand there is an audience for that, and putting those characters in traditional comics won't just pull the fujo audience automatically.
Forgot pic. This is the genre AND the target demographic if you want your gay comic to sell.
Hell, Yaoi has come a long way and doesn't even look like that anymore.
Tropes are still there but artists know how to draw now.
I'm saying western trannies and idiot sjws don't understand shit about demographics and their attempt to dilute everything in the name of inclusion is only pissing everyone off because no one is getting the thing they want.
That's like a serious downgrade, the last image for 2010s is the most boring looking one.
I think it was more to show how the men look like men and not man and man who looks like a girl.
>men look like men
Where? The designs from 2010 are unironically way more feminine than those from the previous era, only the designs from the 70's are maybe more feminine. Like the two guys from 1990 could be two drag queens, I know there's a penis there, the ones from 2000 look like a masculine man and a boy, the ones from 2010 look like two FTM trannies who just got top surgery but will always have a vegana down there.
I think your western mind has been warped if all you see is trannies, drag queens and Pedophilia.
I said nothing about pedophilia, anon. Adults can look young too, this dude was 25 years old at the same of this photo. That's what I meant by "looks like a boy", if I wanted to imply pedophilia, I would have said so.
I can tell that's supposed to be a cis male unlike the FTM trannies in the panel below. Are you a troony yourself, is that way you feel called out?
Now I'm just wondering why you called a Young Adult a boy and not just simply a Young Man.
I didn't care enough at the time of that post to state "Cis dude who looks slightly older and way more masculine and cis dude who looks slightly younger and less masculine but I can still tell that's a cis dude unlike the trannies from the next era." Being this pedantic is why nobody likes like you.
Well, as it happens, the men in japan are looking more like 12 year old girls now.
Sadly, the troony agenda is taking a foothold there too.
It's a downward trend for the whole industry, so I'm not surprised even niche genres are affected and designs become bland and boring. Compare pic related with contemporary designs.
Anime has a whole has changed its style a lot. Now it's shit, 80's anime best anime.
Notice how various anons jump back and forth from
>They ARE trying to serve the masses
to Catty inflation level screeching about homophobia when the lightest inquiry follows.
It's easier to find bad western attempts at yaoi than western sports or war comics.
This anon takes his homosexuality seriously.
Sorry. You're getting 12 different varieties of daily life with post gay urbanites, with a splash of magical realisim furries.
Correct, but shonen jump is close enough to one.
>This anon takes his homosexuality seriously.
Damn right I do.
Cool, nobody cares.
>oh Katherinx this strawberry frappuccino really makes me feel empowered with feminist vibes. How's your gender today?
It's sad because it's true.
So why aren't you buying the latest DC Pride Anthology, huh?
Cut the gay shit
Cut the multiverse shit
Cut the preaching
Cut the giant organizations and teams
Cut the power level wanking
Cut the side characters trying desperately to be useful
Bring back vigilantism
Bring back the themes of isolation, moral relativity, and sacrifice
Bring back the violence, the challenge
Bring back character focused stories
Bring back real villains
Bring back real heroes
You speak the truth. All of it.
Test
All clear
Thanks.
hello
Yuri will save the industry.
Those are men.
I really think they should just transition to graphic novels at this point. Change the comic standard to be more compact, so you don't have to pay 20+ comics for one story, when there are so many comic lines that it's hard for anybody to gravitate to anything but what they already know.
It won't matter if the books are still shit. And they're still too in love with the Direct Market; most of these retailers are suckers and easy money. They don't have to care about how popular the books are, only how many retailers they can scam into stocking more unsold issues.
Eventually retailers will realize some shit won't sell. It's why the barnes and noble near me has more space for manga than it does graphic novels (double the amount of shelves than for graphic novels.) If you go to an actual comic book store, most of it is comics, and the ones that sell are usually older, there is one where half of the store is comic books, but people usually don't go there to buy comics, they go there for traditional board games.
I think the absolute opposite, they should print them in black and white on shit paper because comics are meant to be consumable goods. If I want amazing art I'll buy an art book or a print. Why waste color and rendering on what's gonna be talking heads and inane shit with a nice splash somewhere in between? Graphic novels are a travesty and I say this while appreciating a nicely drawn comic with beautifully colored illustrations. Comics are meant to be a proletarian - for lack of better word - art form, shit that you can buy with pocket change and you can read quickly while commuting. I know it sounds like I'm sucking off manga but manga really understood this and they're more successful than ever specifically because of this. Thing comes out, it starts, it ends, it's printed quickly in magazines, if it's very successful it gets adapted into other shit and you get an anime or whatever, but the baseline is quickly, cheaply produced stuff that can be mass produced and consumed.
Magazines would be blessing for comic creators. If anything the West has the ability to appreciate things that are more out there and unorthodox compared to manga, so maybe they should double down on creative stuff, crazy stories, weird art styles, things that are new. The reason why Western comics are failing is that they're hiring trannies to ape the manga artstyle while themselves off with insufferable diversity lectures when the artstyle is the last thing that makes manga successful. They're doing the laziest, most cowardly thing imaginable: taking characters that are 100 years old and have completely run out of steam and making them gay or black and expect everyone to throw cash at it. It's not even about values, nobody gives a FRICK that you take it in the ass or you're black. NOBODY gives a SHIT, that's why this stuff is dying.
A lot of American comic artists feel like they are trying to prove that what they're doing "matters". Like they have an (admittedly pretty justified) chip on their shoulder about the nerdy association with comics. They aren't always trying to "make it" but to "prove it".
Cinemaphile - Comics & Cartoons ?
>comics
obsessed with wanting to be different and unique that it has no easy entry point and lacks mainstream appeal
normal people have no idea that a lot of the tv shows and movies they watch is even based off a comic
>manga
recognizable and appealing uniform art style
reliable tropes and story structures that you can easily insert any character into
any anime is basically a huge advertisement for a manga that you can easily start where you left off
Spider-Man and Batman need to go back to basics.
Spider-Man should at the very least have a steady girlfriend who lasts for at least the entirety of a run, if you can't undo Quesada's marraige autism and he should be working for the Daily Bugle and fighting supervillains. Don't make an entire run fricking re-litigating unpopular story decisions. If Spider-Man and MJ can't be together, just leave her out of the run.
Batman should have Alfred back and just like Spider-Man, don't use your run to re-litigate Catwoman drama from the Tom King run. If Batman can't be dating Catwoman, just don't use her. Batman should be an actual detective who helps Jim Gordon solve cases.
Fixing these two characters basically solves everything. Characters like Hulk, Daredevil, Thor, Flash, Green Lantern, etc. already have good comics. But you NEED to fix Spider-Man and Batman so that normies think Marvel and DC are back and are more willing to give turbo-nerd characters a chance.
Make our own comics. Make good comics. Succeed. That's literally it barring regulations but media doesn't need tons of money to find eyes anymore it just needs the public's attention
"Don't complain about the culture, BECOME the culture" - Raz0rfist
Cut off its life support which is just making its death slow and agonizing. In order for it to be reborn it needs to die first.
That's why you do that yourself:
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This is bullshit. You need an industry for publishing unless you wanna make the lowest common denominator. There's a reason why you only have a foot to stand on if you draw fanart or porn if you're a nobody. The Japanese have a healthy industry that scouts for stories and rewards people who submit shit. The West doesn't have an industry. Things will never change if there's no change in the industry. This "hell yeah just make your own stuff that's better" is hot air and it means nothing. You literally cannot publish without backup from something bigger than you. Small publishers these days ask you what's your social media follower count and the amount of money you get if you have a successful run is absolutely laughable. How do you get a follower count in the world of algorithms? That's right, derivative shit and Twitter trends. Guess what's killing Western media
Also there's the fact that if you are not interested in Batman or whatever other spandex fruit character among a handful you've seen for the past 200 years, as a Western fan, you can pretty much ditch the whole thing. It's all just Batman or Superman or Spider-Man and no matter if you change the writer or artist or whatever, it's still the same fricking shit. Wolverine goes SNIKT, Jesus fricking CHRIST for the 4039458430952824 time it's not cool anymore. If you don't like this shit you're out. If you don't like Chainsaw Man you're not done with manga, why? Because there's other shit getting made. Chainsaw Man will end and something new will come out, in fact there is a variety of different shit getting made at the same time so if you do not like one thing, you can find another. This is literally impossible in Western comics. You like Spider-Man or you like Batman, at best you can try one of the Bat-Family or Spider-People but it's fundamentally ALL the same SHIT, it's nowhere near more stimulating than Japanese shonenshit except it beats you over the head with frappuccino speak, why would anyone enjoy this? Children grow bored of supershitters quite early, normies will never read the comics after seeing the movies, they don't understand that people who want to read comics are a niche and only see normalBlack folk who watched the latest capeshit movie or old hardcore fans who'd buy Batman in a drag because it's Batman and they need issue #49239. It's all so fricking gay I'm actually amazed that the industry is still standing in any shape or form.
This but with manga. If you don't like Goku, you're shit out of luck.
Found the spic
>If you don't like this shit you're out. If you don't like Chainsaw Man you're not done with manga, why? Because there's other shit getting made. Chainsaw Man will end and something new will come out, in fact there is a variety of different shit getting made at the same time so if you do not like one thing, you can find another.
True but that's because it's good at making think there is variety
It's a popular and successful mainstream appealing genre of manga that isn't too restricted in aesthetics like capeshit
You're tired of this shounen?
Well there is this other one which is also has all the shit in shounen that you like, but feels different
Yeah shonen is all the same shonenshit, but there's enough of a variety in pacing, tone and style that it feels different. Absolutely, you're gonna go through the same tropes all the time, but it's ENOUGH. And there's an important factor, these characters aren't eternal. You do not know if this or that cherished character in your brand new shonenshit will die, or if he'll turn evil or some other shit. You absolutely do know with absolute certainty that the Batman will not kill the Joker, that if the Joker will die accidentally he won't be permanently dead. Batman himself will never fricking die. This will go on forever until the sun burns out. There are no stakes in Western shit because they want to milk the characters themselves like they're brand. Shonenshit AT LEAST milks a true and tested narrative, but everything within it is all up for guesses.
Or you could not just read the comics. It’s easy to ignore. Most people don’t even know they exist anymore.
I can't stress enough how fricking important it is to have a story that actually fricking ends. Stories need to begin and end. Batman should go from point A to point B to point C and then fricking be OVER PERMANENTLY. What's like this in Japanese media? Dragonball? Dragonball is a special case because Dragonball fans are mentally moronic, but everything else just begins and ends. Assuming that the author doesn't die first.
141227948
>namegay spews idiotic take
this thread is about saving western comics
It's time to recognize western comics as they are now cannot be saved, anon. They need to die and let something else fill the void.
I don’t understand these threads at all. Just trolling for guaranteed replies?
Have you ever had a loved one die of cancer? The pain needs to be processed. These threads are the five stages of grief in regards to the death of western comics.
Group A recognizes the comic industry is falling, or perhaps already has fallen, into a death spiral. Group B argues that it is not happening, because their social power comes from their influence in the comic book industry. That very influence that grants Group B their social power may be part of the reason why the industry is falling apart, and so Group A debates with people who have a vested interest in not admitting there is a problem.
Why does Group A continue? Perhaps it's a form of mourning.
Honestly, I think the fact that so many comics are also single volume graphic novels which don't always have enough room to really flesh out a story also hurts things.
>posting the legacy homosexual and the flagship girlboss
They know EXACTLY what they're doing.
I think they should start putting them in Walmart imo
>end required reading multiverses and crossovers
>actually let characters age and stay dead
>End stories instead of countless reboots
>do things other than traditional superheroes, like sports or westerns.
Ms. Marvel was a best seller until she got lost in the crossover event bullshit and never recovered.
Elseworlds and What-Ifs sell better than mainline because they are self contained and end.
Captain Underpants has no required reading in other book series, and is the best selling western super comic.
Bone is the best selling western comic period and isn't a super at all.
I wanna read Jojo or One Piece. Where do I start?
Chapter one and then go forward.
I wanna read Spider-Man or Batman. Where do I start?
Well...what do you like about them? If you want serious or lighthearted I have a few recs. Also a lot of the cartoons are based on specific runs you won't see a lot of that characterization in this or that... If you're okay with fifty year old writing then these are some classics a lot of people find definitive. Wait, where are you going?
Don't forget the events that are REALLY important to the particular character. In order to read THOSE, you have to read 6 OTHER different titles drawn by really shitty artists compared to the artists on the series you're following. I swear Marvel's events are just to get people to buy titles with shitty art that weren't selling well.
>I want to read this good comic.
>No, read these 20 bad comics first!
>No.
>WHY CAN'T WE SELL?
what's even funnier is when you gays on the board get mad when the art has attractive characters
If the art's good, no problems. The problem is the art usually blows, looking like that semi-weekly shit Marvel puts out (what is it, "Infinity Comic"?), or worse.
What? Cinemaphile has been nothing but horny since say 1.
For Xmen you literally need a fricking guide. It's a damm mess.
There are 50 odd issues of Claremont X-men before he even started to get spin offs
Incelbait is Japan's capeshit. It's oversaturated and can't sell. Horny isekai #382 but American won't save conics.
Stop hiring queer activist writers. Use writers that are straight and don't hate men. Artists have no choice but to follow the script or quit in protest and make their own indiegogo-funded shitty books about lgbtq crap that will fail every time.
>Comics are getting by
>Put Black folk and homosexuals in the comics and have them talk down to the buyer and beloved heroes
>Sales plummet
>Comicbook companies are scratching their heads
>They continue down the path that ruined them
These motherfrickers don't deserve to exist. They are so stupid that they should had forgotten how to breathe. They think floppy sales are of no consequence because they only exist as marketing for the movies. Well guess what. If your product is so shit that people won't buy the floppies then they won't buy tickets or merchandise either. Utter morons.
>Convert to the Manga model
>Keep legacy heroes to the big screen only
I just got into collecting comics and watched both Batman and Spider-man get cucked. I've since spent hundreds on older issues primarily made before 2000.
Current writers and editors suck balls and the format is too expensive to bother with.
DON'T TREAT PICTURE BOOKS LIKE FRICKIN' STOCKS. YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM!
What the frick are you talking about? I buy what I enjoy. Spending $5 on a new book in an industry filled with no-talent dipshits like Tini Howard, Sarah Gailey, Tom King, Zeb Wells, Chip Zdarsky, Rainbow Rowell, Tee Franklin, Alyssa Wong, Tom Taylor, Matthew Rosenberg, Joshua Williamson, Leah Williams, and so on isn't worth it.
he's accusing you of being a speculatorgay buying up shit modern releases because you think you'll make a profit on it down the line because he's a moron who didnt read your post
That's what all comic collectors do. You know that's why some of those issues were hundreds of dollars? People treat them like investments instead of books. If you went out of your way to look for varient covers that goes double.
??
i just buy books i want to read and then put them in a box when im done, i dont care about the monetary value i just like making more shit for my family to have to get rid of when i die
Do I have to post it again?
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Even if Marvel and DC reformed, and the comics industry went some through new Golden Age where we had better stories and new popular genres to read with new publishers, I still wouldn't read them in physical form. I, and many people in their 20s, just aren't interested in physical media anymore. Is the comics industry willing to stream their content in single service with a free online/subscription model?
Good. Let it die.
>How do we save the comic book industry?
1) First and foremost, put out comics that people want to buy. That means comics that tell a good story. You can be as woke and gay as you want, so long as it's in service of the story and not the other way around. Same if the art's only so-so. But if you write stories nobody wants to read, they're not going to buy them
.
2) Make it easy to buy the comics people would want to read. That means you need to have them for sale in a lot more stores than just the occasional (or nonexistent) specialty store. There are plenty of niche-ass magazines on the racks at Walmart, at the checkout counter, and at the pharmacy, I seriously doubt they sell better than a good comic would. If your distribution system is too fricked up to permit you to do what small-circulation magazines manage to do, then do it their way instead.
3) Nah, that's it. There is no 3. You people act like this is rocket science or something.
And the "go away, the world doesn't work like that any more" attitude is just putting your hands over your ears and shouting "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" when someone gives you an answer you don't like. You need to get new readers. They aren't going to seek you out, so you have to go to them, get their eyeballs to discover your wares for the first time, and make them want to start buying. Doing things the way you're set up to do them now isn't working. If your ways aren't going to get books in front of eyeballs, then you need to find new ways that will.
>Durrrrr put them back in grocery stores!!
Every. Fricking. Thread.
HEY DC
I know you're reading this
Make Batman suck a wiener and see what happens
Do it you cowards
Do it and see what happens to your sales overnight
You fricking pussies, if you were real about this queer shit you'd make Bruce Wayne Batman gay and have him suck a fricking dick on panel
DO IT
You won't do it because you know what happens if you do
twisted
Keeping making more homosexual superheroes, i'm sure that will help.
2024 and they still wearing capes, mask and using alter egos...
Westerners are just moving to streaming and digital everything. It's only natural that comics are dying.
You want to SAVE that thing?? Look at it anon. It's so mangled you can barely recognize it. At some point it's cruel to force something to exist in such a wretched twisted agonizing state.
Ah who am I kidding, we can deform and torture it some more I'm sure you can squeeze another penny out of it on life support you animals
Superman was never a good character for the masses. In a Era where people want stories where the main protagonist has to struggle to acquire his strength, a character born strong and undefeatable because he is "LE HOPE" was never going to work
I AM THE HOPE OF THE UNIVERSE