>completely racially ambiguous character
>randomly drops the fact that they are black in the middle of the show
explain this
>completely racially ambiguous character. >randomly drops the fact that they are black in the middle of the show
>completely racially ambiguous character
>randomly drops the fact that they are black in the middle of the show
explain this
By that point diversity was becoming a trend in cartoons and the AT staff wanted to cash in on it.
They wanted to make them black, so they did.
Why does it even matter?
Why did it matter to make them black?
Black goth/emo chicks are hot. Simple as.
They're non-existent
There was previous indication to the contrary
I dated 2. One of them introduced me to Avenged Sevenfold. So your comment is homosexual and also, not factual.
>you talked to a girl
>two
I hope you fricking die burning. You fricking shit.
>They're non-existent
Dumbass
Brownie points. This was at the time when racial diversity in animation was on the rise.
It doesn't, which i fall to see why Cinemaphile should acknowledge it.
>There was previous indication to the contrary
Really?
>It doesn't, which i fall to see why Cinemaphile should acknowledge it.
But why did they find it necessary to make the change then?
>Really?
Pic related and the fact both her and Marshall have straight hair
>But why did they find it necessary to make the change then?
Don't know and frankly don't care. I don't think they cared that much either hence why they didn't go any further with it.
Just tell the viewers what race her human side is and don't go any further with it.
Think you guys are putting too much thought into it though.
>Pic related and the fact both her and Marshall have straight hair
As
said, it could just be a design choice with no relation to her race. Also, don't black people with straight hair exist?
>Also, don't black people with straight hair exist?
Yeah just like 7 foot asians exist
What exactly is the point of this complaint? They were designing Marcy's mother, since she was a human she wouldn't have the grey demon skin, so they gave her a normal human skin tone. There doesn't have to be a reason for why the character designers went with brown skin over any other skin color, but if you really want to guess a reason you could maybe say it was just to be closer to Olivia Olsen (Marcy's VA's) own skin tone.
Or it could just be a design choice.
The voice actor is black, so they made her black. What so complicated about that. Shows have made asian voice actors asian coded if they aren't human and so forth. It's not that deep.A magical slinky unicorn speaks korean and nobody bats and eye but godforbid the vamp they simped over has the one drop rule on her.
Because it's pointless. Nothing more.
there were people who complained that marceline didn't look black enough so that's probably why. like even if you gave them a human skin tone they'd look indian. probably an artstyle thing, i don't see a lot of half-black people with naturally straight hair.
Apparently creators are obligated to justify making a character who isn't a white dude.
>but if you really want to guess a reason you could maybe say it was just to be closer to Olivia Olsen (Marcy's VA's) own skin tone.
>The voice actor is black, so they made her black.
>Marceline’s VA is brown, therefore why assume she isn’t brown?
Absolute moron tier logic, LSP is voiced by a dude so her real form would be male? Jake is voiced by a human so he should be revealed to be a human all along? There are Avatar and anime characters that look white and are voiced by white actors so that means they're all actually white? Darth Vader is voiced by a black man so they should've revealed he was black all along?
>What exactly is the point of this complaint?
That blacks exist.
This is Cinemaphile so I dunno why people are so eager to beat around the bush.
see
If an obviously black character was asspull-revealed to have been white all along, the type of people defending black Marcy would seethe until the heat death of the universe
Marcy is still half white though. If a black character was revealed to be half white all along then I think only cringelords would be seething and I'd say the same thing im saying now.
>Marcy's mom is brown
>Hunson genderswap is a black woman
>human Marshall is fully black with dreads
>this means human Marceline would also be fully black with nappy hair
>meanwhile Olivia is only a quarter black
If an obviously black character was revealed to have two white biological parents and look obviously white while humanized there'd be riots in the streets
I guess my big issue is I haven't seen Fiona and Cake. Honestly hate that they did make fem Hudson black since Marceline being mixed was always pretty apparent to me. And I guess you could argue its an alternate universe and marshal lee looking more black is a result of this but it still feels like a weird choice. Like saying "obviously a black dad wouldn't not marry a black woman."
You're telling on yourself a bit. They didn't MAKE her black as opposed to being white. It's just as much a decision to make a character white as it is to make a character black. Some people are just black. Marceline is mixed. Half black half demon. No big deal. Honestly they're not even in your face about it.
She was originally white, which means there was a conscious decision to make her black somewhere down the line
Now they're doing the same to Jake
>She was originally white
You dudes keep saying this and yet, provide no proof whatsoever to your claim.
Did Adam, Rebecca or any of the creators said this or is this just some imaginary, paracosm, headcanon bullshit you're trying to enforce into reality?
Provide a link.
>You dudes keep saying this and yet, provide no proof whatsoever to your claim.
She was literally white, as in literally white in the pitch bible and the show, she had long straight hair characteristic of white people, was cast to be played specifically by Vanessa Doofenshmirtz's (white female character) VA, Olivia also read for PB who was white, Marceline was played by three other white actresses at various points in time during the show, and white people cosplaying as Marceline weren't murdered on sight for whitewashing
Imagine the reverse
>a black skinned character with an afro
>requested to be played by the voice actor of a black character
>that voice actor was actually quarter-white
>character played by 3 other black voice actors for younger/older versions during the show
>"actually the character was white all along!"
Would that not be idiotic? Would you need more proof that the character isn't white?
Was originally meant to be played by Dante Basco who is Filipino
They had a color, they changed it
>She was literally white, as in literally white in the pitch bible and the show
This is more due to her being demon than her human side. Compare her to Finn and you'll see the difference.
>she had long straight hair characteristic of white people,
White people aren't the only people to have long, straight hair. Also, since Elise and Hunson Abadeer have straight hair, she would have them too. Also also, Marceline can shapeshift and probably fashioned her hair that way.
>was cast to be played specifically by Vanessa Doofenshmirtz's (white female character) VA,
Okay........and? How is her voicing a character from another series relevant?
>Olivia also read for PB who was white
Again, I don't see why this is mentioned. Since she voices a few white characters (one of which isn't human), that means Marceline is white?
>Marceline was played by three other white actresses at various points in time during the show,
She's a half-human, half-demon vampire hybrid, Marceline could've been voiced by anybody. The ones they did just happen to be white.
>white people cosplaying as Marceline weren't murdered on sight for whitewashing
Fans overlook her human side since she is a vampire/demon. Her simplistic artstyle/design also allows any fan—white, black, latino,asian or whatever—to cosplay as her with no issue. Her human ethnicity doesn't matter.
Ngl, you really stretched with this one.
I agree with your example. Doing so would be idiotic. But that's not the case here. Unless you think light skin means white (which is just as annoying as dark skin equals black), nothing about her human race or ethnicity was hinted at until Ketchup aired and even then, that still wasn't enough to deduce her race.
>Compare her to Finn and you'll see the difference.
Yes, she is literally white
>White people aren't the only people to have long, straight hair.
Yet black people are ones to definitely not have it
>Marceline can shapeshift and probably fashioned her hair that way.
Nah she had it when she was a kid before she was a vampire
>How is her voicing a character from another series relevant?
Pen heard a white character's voice in another show and requested that character's voice for his character, as opposed to hearing a black character's voice
>Again, I don't see why this is mentioned.
It's mentioned because letting Olivia try out for PB means that Marcy wasn't meant to be black because of her either
>She's a half-human, half-demon vampire hybrid, Marceline could've been voiced by anybody. The ones they did just happen to be white.
Suuure, and Darwin's voice actors in Gumball just happen to be all black boys, he's actually meant to be white
>Fans overlook her human side since she is a vampire/demon.
No they don't, try that these days and you'll get crucified
>Ngl, you really stretched with this one.
Ngl you really didn't provide any arguments whatsoever with this one
>But that's not the case here
That is literally the case here, a white looking, white sounding, white coded character voiced by white VAs that we know was meant to be white, being revealed as "actually black all along with black parents", the opposite of that would cause nuclear meltdowns
>Unless you think light skin means white (which is just as annoying as dark skin equals black)
Funny given that you assume Elise is black simply because she's dark skinned when she could be a tanned white woman or latina
>nothing about her human race or ethnicity was hinted at until Ketchup aired and even then
Except her look, her voice, her behavior, her style, her skin, her hair and this
>straight hair
>pale skin
hrm yes, this definitely reads as black lmfao
You're reading comprehension skills are lacking cause i never said she was black either.
Also
>Light skinned blacks don't exist because.....uh......they just don't, okay?
you lack context comprehension skills, because the whole complaint is that they're saying she's black, not that they're saying she isn't specifically European.
No one gives a shit if you think she could be asian
>because the whole complaint is that they're saying she's black
Which she is, accept it already.
"african-americans" in general are all at least quarter white anyway, compare USA ""blacks"" to africans like pic related.
even though Obama was only half-black at most, he was considered just "black" because that's how diluted african genes are there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Dunham
I mean she's mixed. Meaning she's just as white as she is black. Meaning that she's still originally white. She just takes more after her dad than her mom. Unless you'd argue someone ceases to be white even if one of their parents is white.
>maroon skinned alien = black
>yellow dog = black
>orange fish = black
if one can't "act black" one also can't be "coded black" either.
>You're telling on yourself a bit
go back
They had to be a color so they chose black. Isn't the male version voiced by a black person?
Yes, dude's name is Donald Glover or Childish Gambino
feels a bit cheap considering there was no previous indication of it. i don't have an issue with it otherwise.
Several reasons that all add up
>Marceline’s VA is brown, therefore why assume she isn’t brown?
>It helps that her mother is is brown, showing the contrast between her and her demon toddler due to (literal) racemixing
>Finn is (marketed) as the last human in Ooo so it would be odd to have a second white person, non whites are only human in the polite sense
Also the only reason she looks that way is because she is mixed. Olivia that is.
>>Finn is (marketed) as the last human in Ooo so it would be odd to have a second white person, non whites are only human in the polite sense
This anon just solved the problem. They wanted Finn to be the only human, so they went with a brown creature instead.
Brown and black are two different things
Is this condideted brown in the united states? She would be pale where I come from.
It matters because she was initially coded as a Latina, so it's Latina erasure.
how the frick is a character ""coded"" as a race?
Because of her sense of style, and because she has Virgin Mary iconography in her home, which is something Mexicans are into. She was a Mexican.
She turned black because Americans are obsessed with black people because they did racial slavery 100+ years ago. Americans' idea of race is "blacks, whites, and all those other ones," so they almost always make characters black when they're trying to get ESG bucks.
>she has Virgin Mary iconography in her home,
Wouldn't that hint more at her being christian/catholic rather than mexican though?
Also, that's like the only thing that can possibly link her to a race. She doesn't really show any x coded tendencies throughout the entire show.
Mexico is one of the most Catholic nations out there. It doesn't really matter because Marcy almost certainly was born after nations mattered anyway.
Because of her sense of style
>her sense of style
What do you mean by that?
But surely religious imagery can't be the only thing needed to deduce her race. As
said, it's the only thing she has that could link her to being latino. Wouldn't there need to be more stuff/evidence to fully support her being latino like having a accent or
clothing?
yeah i'm hispanic and immediately picked up on that. it would have been ok if she was written as black from the start. but this just came off like an awkward retcon
I got the impression that Marceline had catholic iconography in her house because that was her form of rebellion against her dad, who is literally the lord of hell.
That makes more sense, honestly.
again, how the frick is that related to race at all? if races can be "coded" with things irrelevant to race, that means certain behaviors and cultures imply certain races, which means race is not only skin color/looks but affects behavior and culture.
then what race does rape or drive-by shooting code a character to? what race does being an intellectual code a character to?
>what race does being an intellectual code a character to?
Princess Bubblegum is a scientist and inventor, so she is explicitly white-coded.
>rape or drive-by shooting
why you gotta disparage the soul community like that
And to add on to what
said, what has she done in the series that would hint at her being Latina or any race/ethnicity for that matter?
It’s more subtle than anything with implications that Ice King (A Russian) learned about those Mexican easter eggs from Marcy, some of her decorations in her house, and her mom’s design.
On another note, Marcy and Marshall aren’t supposed to be literal swaps of one another since Marshall was implied to be a demon who seduced the Ice Queen (A water nymph) before she became said queen in the comics. So one could easily have Marcy be Latina and Marshall be black.
how the hell are those related to race and not culture?
Nothing they do in the comics is ever made canon in the show. It’s just designed to generate money from you.
Did the creators say the comics aren't canon though?
*Didn't
AFAIK, haven’t heard either or, but the fact that they were made by Natasha herself gives them some “canonness”, given how Natasha was basically the “mom” of Fionna and Cake.
Muto said they are as canon as fanfiction.
It was, you guessed it, Sugar's idea
I thought it was Muto’s idea to make her black while Sugar was implying she was Latina?
boring.
>coded
this is just stereotyping, but "PC"
honestly dude, I'm kinda racist but have hookups on dating apps with exclusively mid black women because their expectations are super low and I don't really view them as fully human so I don't feel as bad for having premarital sex or ghosting them. I always have to wrap it up, which sucks but it is what it is.
>fricking them at all
man I forget how many dicks are on this site.
>claims to pull mid blacks
>posts on Cinemaphile
it's obviously a lie
You do realize anyone can make shit up when they’re posting on the internet anonymously right?
Just the fact that they brag about ghosting alone sets me off I guess.
That's probably one of the most horrendous things you can do to another person you make a connection with.
She will always be white to me, nothing about her design or clothing choices scream ethnic.
Let's just say black girls do not have straight hair.
>randomly drops the fact that they are black in the middle of the show
Revisionism.
She was white, then her mom showed up and her mom looked more like a latina.
Then years after they made the full transition to black.
This was done to keep Finn fans from shipping them and appease to the progressive lesbians.
Finngays are pitiful though, since they ate up the consolation prize that was Huntress. Bunch of piggies eating their hogwash scraps.
On a somewhat unrelated note, what criteria must be met for a character to be deemed black? Do they always have to have the same old afro, dreads, flattop, or bald head, along with a big nose and lip?
Are character designers not allowed to deviate? I figure if they can give, for example, AT characters four fingers, no nose, periods for eyes, and nobody bats an eye, they can give a black character straight hair.
t.black btw
It ultimately amounts to if your kind like them or they have a vaguely non-white VA. That or the creators are just self-hating pieces of shit like they always are.
Can't speak for other black anons but It doesn't matter to me. Design black characters however you want.
Good point
Usually it boils down to very basic things like skin and sometimes hair color. Finn has light skin and blond hair, so we just assume he's white. Marcy's mom had dark hair and brown skin, so we assume she's not white. A creator might give their own interpretations down the line as to what they believed a character's race to be when designing them, which may matter to you if you think an author's intent outside of what is specifically included in the work is important when interpreting the work itself. Voice actors can also influence how people interpret a character. its obvious a VA's own race doesn't have to necessarily match up with a character they are playing, but if the character doesn't have a clear race otherwise, its popular to just use the VA's race for simplicity. Oliva Olsen also voices Vanessa from Phineas and Ferb, but no one is gonna interpret Vanessa as black because she's very clearly of some weird pseudo-germanic heritage with her obviously white parents. Since Marcy's race is unclear being half grey demon person and half brown skinned lady, people are inclined to assume her race could be the same as Olivia's.
And of course, this became more apparent with Marshal-lee and his VA, most specifically in the recent Fionna and Cake spin off where we got to see a fully human version of him with very obviously brown skin and a haircut distinctly associated with african american culture.
Isn't she mixed? Well, beyond being half demon, her mom doesn't look black.
>Marceline is black
dropped
>racially ambiguous character
He looked white or asian, but definitely not black
she's black, trans and gay, what's more? is she secretly obese as well?
Different writers coming and going throught the show's run so you have weird stuff like Marcy not simply being a vampire demon or whatever but half human too and becoming a vampire through really contrived means.
Progressive fat self hating white woman
* Cough Rebbeca Sugar
If the VA wasn't black they should have fired them and replaced them
In the same show that turned the love interest into a surprise lesbian for twitter good boy points no less.
I am so thoroughly shocked and dismayed at this rash decision that I never could have seen coming...
She never really was a love interest. Like they even had a whole episode squishing the whole idea all together.
He means that this is the same show where Finn’s love interest, Princess Bubblegum, was turned into a lesbian for brownie points.
did that really happen? stopped watching when the creator wasn't the one creating it anymore.
but blacks literally can't be that pale(go watch some african thief execution videos where they lose 99% of their blood), and they have straight hair. if they were albinos, their hair wouldn't be black either. sounds like 110% bullshit.
ALSO who gives a shit about the voice actor? i never even heard the english version, and my country doesnt have blacks so obviously it wasnt a black voicing her, so why should they change the character for an irrelevant local detail?
Season 5 established that Marceline was half human on her mom's side instead of being a demon/vampire all her life. So naturally, this meant if they ever depicted her mom from that point on, her mom would be human. Thus, her mom has a human skin color.
She's a literal demon human mutt who's humanity got overwritten by vampirism. Why are you talking about how pale black people get?
The voice actor.
It's what the people wanted.
Marceline becoming canonically buck broken will never not be hilarious to me
Nah
she plays the bass of course she’s black you moron
Marceline screamed hispanic to me, not black. She sounds hispanic. But maybe thats me.
I don't care about her race I only care about the fact that she's hot.
cry more, idiot
Fixed
Based.
Actual Marshall Lee would have been too based for this sloppy show
It's jarring, obviously. Marceline was not ambiguously coded. She seemed like a white or brown girl turned vampire because she was conceived as such, was really obvious. Being black coded doesn't mean you're some idiotic stereotype, but it also wasn't was Marcy was. It doesn't work, not without prequel-tier gymnastics.
>Marceline was not ambiguously coded
She literally was though, nothing relating to her race was mentioned in show even after ketchup or stakes. She could've been any race for all we known.
>She seemed like a white or brown girl
How ironic of you to say this, then turn around and say this:
>not without prequel-tier gymnastics.
You're a victim of your own bullshit logic
She seemed Mexican to me.
Quick doodle of her
Looks cute
>be straight and white
>everyone who can see you knows you are straight and white
>you assume that all the other white people around you are straight
>someone informs you they are not straight or not white
>bitchass fight or flight kicks in
>ree
Do wonder if the blacks claim her fashion sense or if they just guffawed at her the same way they do anything that doesn't look like them.
here, black people in my neighborhood wore most of your picrel.
>doubt
Most of this shit looks like something a gentrified sorry excuse for a black would wear. These are quirky white clothes, or at the very least asian-adjacent.
They really do though.
>These are quirky white clothes, or at the very least asian-adjacent.
If that's what you believe, then i won't bother convincing you otherwise. All I'm gonna say is you'd be surprised.
As someone that lives around and interacts with them, I'm speaking from experience too. Black women around here don't look like that at all.
The ones I've lived and hung around with do. But that's just my experience.
I think people often forget is that being black isn't a thing you do. It's a thing you are. My ex was black and was super into Gothic e-girlta and Scene kid fashion. She even dyed a red streak in her hair.
Most actual blacks would call her an oreo, adopting white culture like she's one of them. Acting black and being black go hand in hand
She can't really act black when there's no culture left. She's also basically white after turning into a vampire.
>Most actual blacks would call her an oreo, adopting white culture like she's one of them
Those blacks are fricking stupid. How does wearing casual clothing make you less black?
>Acting black and being black go hand in hand
How does one act black?
>cuh
>bruh
>homie
Acting black isn't hard. It's exhibiting disinterest in all things your community associates with 'whiteness' (reading for pleasure, studying for school, not littering, using punctuation IRL, etc) and refusing to acknowledge any non-local authority as legitimate.
>uppity homies think they're better than us because they went to school
>ACAB
There are black people. Then there's black culture. Not the same thing. Being black (dark skin with African features) doesn't make me Black. The culture is something you wear over your clothes and is generally inhospitable to nonconformists. That's why blacks move out of Black areas when we get the chance, it's cracker culture (anti-intellectual, violent, insular) and isn't congenial to creativity or real emotion.
Why the hostility towards such an aggressive culture?
Must be racists. No other explanation.
Clearly she's a teenager version of Wednesday Addams who isn't black in any way in any continuity of the Addams family.
>who isn't black in any way in any continuity of the Addams family.
uh...
Liberals are so predictable
Blacks and the LGBT are cultural colonizers
>barge in to a space uninvited
>force everything to cater to them
>Cry victim when challenged
Lmao I thought acting white was forbidden in "da kulture."
Let's not forget all four are named after Italian renaissance artists
I mean their race barely plays a role in the story. Its dropped casually and not really expanded on much. Hell it doesn't even effect her skin color outside of the very beginning of Fiona and Cake. Certainly didn't change anything about Marcy or how she's treated in the original series. I can't imagine it bothering you unless you're just bothered by a
Brown. White. Red. Yellow. French.
It doesnt matter.
Fat Vampire breasts. Thats what matters.
It's funny how much you tards care.
I care only about Finn getting to be a Vampire Prince by marriage.
White people don't have black hair.
She got it from her demon dad
Funny how the "a character shouldn't have to look like you to enjoy them" rockets out the window at light speed whenever a character isn't explicitly or implied to be white
We learned it from you :^)
you realize the pretext for blackwashing is specifically the allegation that blacks can't relate to them otherwise? meanwhile when was a non-white character ever whitewashed at all? no, a white actor playing a black character in black face paint to keep the character's race intact regardless of actor is not "whitewash".
Why could not make her a latina? That would have pleased everyone
Because the US doesn't worship latinas