>Cronenberg expressed frustration with Alien. “It has no metaphysics, no philosophy,” he told Fangoria in 1979. “The creature winds up as a man in a crocodile suit who chases a bunch of people around a room. I think that my own films do a lot more in touching a deep seated nerve, more than the simple reaction that you don’t want a crocodile to eat you. Alien was just a $300,000 B-movie with a $10 million budget.”
>The pivotal chestburster moment also came under fire: “The parasite device isn’t used in a metaphorical way, it wasn’t used to evoke anything,” Cronenberg said. “In Alien, John Hurt has the parasite in him, he goes about his business as usual. In [Cronenberg's 1975 film] Shivers, the parasite stays inside the people and changes their behaviour and their motives. It’s used for something more than simple shock value.”
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>I think that my own films do a lot more
oh you would, David, wouldn't you
Does anyone else think Cronenberg is trash? Seen a bunch of his movies, even the "classics," and none of them were even OK
I like Rabid.
I like Cronenberg a lot but Rabid is the worst of his films I've seen. It's just a half-assed zombie movie that doesn't really ever establish itself enough to be good
Even Videodrome?
I rated it 2 1/2 stars on Letterboxd and don't remeber a damn thing about it so yes
Videodrome and A History of Violence are masterpieces, you're moronic and should reframe from ever posting your worthless opinion in the future
>A History of Violence
I have this logged as 1/2 a star which means it was so terrible I only watched the first 10-15 minutes.
>getting filtered before the first act is over
Know how I know you're a zoomer?
lol frick off. I went through the entierty of Chelsea Girls (3 1/2 hours, two screens, no sound half the time) in one sitting.
Problem isn't my attention span problem is your favorite director is trash
>watches trash while criticizing other trash
homosexual
This exit-level arthouse is too strong for you, warrior
enjoy your trash
Stick to Tarantino kiddie
more trash recs from the trash expert
Wanna know the worst trash you can go see? Look in a mirror
trash comebacks from the trash king! Keep it coming garbage man
>comic book adaptation
>masterpiece
Yes
A History of Violence is moronic if you think about it for 10 seconds. Eastern Promises is better
>reframe
Holy shit, you fricking dunce.
>Videodrome
I didn't get it
Videodrome is just The Parallax View with a bunch of 80s special effects poured on top of it. In the same way The Thing is just Invasion of the Body Snatchers with 80s effects on top of it
Explain it to me like you would an idiot pls.
Shivers legit fricked me up as a kid. I remember watching it for a laugh when I saw the goofy props and stilted acting but the sexual implications were seriously disturbing.
He is not trash but he is the epitome of overrated in my opinion. People often misuse the word 'overrated' nowadays, especially on this site but when it comes to Cronenberg I actually mean it
The Dead Zone
The Fly
A History of Violence
But yeah still overrated.
He has alwaye pushed the boundry of whats acceptable for the times the films released. I like alot of his stuff.
Pasolini did more with less earlier than Cronenberg. Same with Bunel, especially metaphorically
The Fly, Scanners, Rabid, Shivers, The Brood, Existenz, Crash, Crimes of the Future (2022)
>Crimes of the Future (2022)
Oh I actually saw that one too, weird but I liked it. Thanks for the recs.
Buñuel’s transgressive stuff is passé.
His body horror really isn't all that great. Creative sure, but still B movie tier. Where he really shines is with Crash, History of Violence, and Eastern Promises.
History of Violence is pretty bad, though.
it has a nice sex scene though
He is one of the less talented horror directors for sure
>b-b-but allegories
Horror movies don’t need depth for fricks sake. What a self fellating israelite.
>videodrome
nonsensical mess
>the dead zone
good, faithful adaptation of the SK novel
>the fly
based
>dead ringers
good remake of a zen and two noughts
>crash
interesting idea, poor execution
also
>naked lunch
it was like a reader's digest abridged version of the WSB novel
That has to be Greenaway's worst film.
It's a Davinci without a subject. Some of the most beautiful images he has conjured regardless.
I like Cosmopolis
t. has posted in 40 barbie threads and every marvel thread
for a second I thought Cronenberg was Carpenter who I adore, I only really know the Fly from Cronenberg and thats great, naked lunch is all right
Xzistenz is ok too
His best flick is M. Butterfly
There, I said what we're all thinking
Not sure about best but definitely underrated. Same with Spider (2002)
I watched the new one about the organs, then I watched Eastern Promises, and then I watched A History of Violence. It's genuinely unbelievable how horrible and dogshit he is given how much he gets shilled.
That's all washed-up Cronenberg. He peaked in the 80s.
>doesn't like videodrome
>doesn't like the fly
>doesn't like existenz
Smh anon
I think his best films are when he was into body horror, although some of his more "intellectual" movies are great and some of his BH ones aged badly.
His older films are a bit overrated, but his new films are good
He's good but not nearly as good as he thinks.
I show Shivers and Rabud once a year as a double feature.
He's had a better career than Scott or Carpenter.
on paper I should love him, but have barely made it 20 minutes into the few I have tried to watch.
idiot
>Does anyone else think Cronenberg is trash?
he is unbearably mid
His movies rank from barely descent to massive trash. Alien 1 and 2 are way better than his best stuff. even alien 3 wich was a notable downgrade isnbetter than his last movie
No, but directors are the least people I go to for film critique. Even Orson Welles had notoriously bad takes in relation to his director competition.
he is just
o v e r r a t e d
He's based and right.
He literally never made a bad film.
Cope brainlet
/thread
His movies being good doesn't make him a good movie critic at all. better directors than him have had worse takes.
>His movies being good doesn't make him a good movie critic at all
'You can't talk shit unless you make a movie!'
'Ah, you made movies and they're good? You still can't talk shit'
wtf
DUDE HORROR MOVIES CAN'T JUST BE SCARY THEY MUST BE A METAPHOR FOR SOMETHING
Alien is better than anything croenberg ever made by a long shot. So is blade runner.
No it is not and I think cronenberg is also a hack. Alien was shit, that laughable chase scene with the latex suit while having to look at Sigourneys non existent pancake ass is torture
Black person.
Alien is my favorite horror movie so I’ve showed it to many people throughout my life or at least asked if people have seen it. Of everyone the only people who have not liked it have been women and my little zoomer cousin who was an ipad toddler and makes tiktoks. Just know you share taste with these people.
>REEEEEEEEE!!!11!!111
I like Cronenberg's work but he sounds jealous as frick here. Perhaps this reaction to Alien is why he made Videodrome's torso tape scene.
ah yes, such deep philosophy and metaphysics as "there's a vegana on my chest" and "that guys head fricking exploded"
David Lynch is less of a fartsniffing fruit than this guy
>I'm a pretentious degenerate
Yes we know David
>The parasite device isn’t used in a metaphorical way
The metaphor for sexual violence is so obvious a freshman high schooler can grasp it
You're only saying that because Ripley was a woman and that wasn't even part of the script.
nta but an Alien is violently birthed from a man, killing him in the process
Cronenberg is good but a bit overrated. Not sure any of his films reach Alien in quality and that's from someone who loves Scanners unironically
It has nothing to do with being a woman. Every single member of the crew has a fear of being raped by the penis-head monster. He literally wants to grab you, penetrate you, and either desecrate your remains or put his spawn inside you to birth more penis monsters. That heavily sexual violence is terrifying to men and women.
>put his spawn inside you
Xenomorph can't do that though. Also the penetrate you part could be said about any random slasher villain. Grabbing you just sounds like you wanted an additional thing to list.
Sounds like you’re reading more into Geiger’s imagery than the actual script. If Alien has went with a different artist/designer, your theory would be mute because the script would have been the same.
indeed the script was written for a bug monster. Degenerate perverts and feminists latch onto the design.
>If that woman wasn't beautiful, you wouldn't think she was beautiful
Giger's designs are all over the movie, no one's going to fricking ignore them just to make you feel like you're right
A movie isn't a script
Subjective/death of the author bs
>tonnes of penis and vegana imagery
>the alien is a wiener-shaped head
>the alien is "birthed" via non-consensual penetration
It has nothing to do with Ripley.
Yeah, the fact Geiger’s alien looks like a giant wiener was clearly a total accident as well.
Indeed. Geiger style is completely different in his other works.
Also, Ash tries to kill Ripley by shoving a rolled up porn mag down her throat. The sex/vilolence/rape there is clear.
Ripley is literally the only one who's not raped by the giant dickhead monster
It never raped anybody just killed them
David y u on Cinemaphile
Ripley is literally the only character who isn’t a victim of the alien you absolute moron, so why the frick does that matter?
a literal slimy wiener bursts its way out of a man's stomach after laying eggs in him through facefricking him. he literally rapes lambert to death. his head is a wiener. Ash is a robot filled with cum who stuffs a porn mag down Ripleys throat
so when a tick burrows its head into your skin thats also a sexual act?
aliens core theme is human vs. beast. a bear, snake or shark hunting the crew would work just as well and there are movies that do exactly that. the alien was needed because its in a scifi setting and it was in a scifi setting because scifi was cool and new in the late 70s.
The life cycle of the critter involves various rapey acts, but the part that drives the point home is that they got the guy who did art like pic related to do the creature designs
No. It was long before Alien
Sexual themes were H R Giger's intention while creating the designs which later inspired xenomorph
Yeah it looks like a fricking dick
>big black croc coming to rape you is le scary
Cronenburg was right, the only thing Alien has to say is that monsters trying to rape/kill you are scary.
he's right tho, Alien is nice scary fun but pretty meaningless, still would be fine if it was one and done but no there's a whole fricking universe now full of unfinished plot lines and unconsidered ramifications
just do as with Terminator and pretend nothing happened after 2. Hell, that was the original ending of T2 until the suits decided they wanted an excuse to milk more money.
You can reliably disregard most every time a movie becomes a franchise, as you'll get maybe two good films and then decades of farming out for cheap money. Only example I can think to the contrary, a longeunning thing getting a sequel that was actually good, was 2018 Halloween, and even that brought with it some questionable sequels thanks to keeping the door open for more. Most any other time it's just new money grubbers coming to peel the scab and scrape more cash out of the festering wound.
>just do as with Terminator and pretend nothing happened after 2.
Bill Gibson's script for 3 was good, I don't know why they scrapped it for the shaven-headed abomination they ended up with... I guess they couldn't bear to not have Sigourney Weaver star in one film in the series? (Gibson's script even set up a major return for her character)
anon picrel
2/2
They all made it ... we all going to make it
I want to snuggle with thicc newt mommy while we hypersleep
He's no right, Alien is about corporations (Weyland-Yutani), evil corporations.
not every movie needs to be riddled with metaphors, alien is good because of its well executed simplicity
He saw himself as the alien.
This is the real issue. israelites don't like seeing the parasite get defeated.
Is this a real quote, or is he actually stupid?
Creative people who do similar stuff shittalk each other out of jealousy/for the lulz sometimes. Lynch once said that Giger stole his ideas lmao
https://www.denofgeek.com/movies/what-debt-does-alien-owe-david-cronenberg-s-shivers/
He also claims Alien's screenwriter stole the concept of the alien from Shivers
>For their part, Ronald Shussett and Dan O’Bannon have long insisted that Alien wasn’t based on Shivers, since they hadn’t even seen it at the time. Cronenberg counters that John Landis had been around O’Bannon when he’d talked about Cronenberg’s “Canadian films.”
>“Dan O’Bannon later denied that he had ever seen those movies [Shivers and Cronenberg’s second feature, Rabid]”, the director said, “but John Landis swears he talked about them all the time and knew them very well.”
>He also claims Alien's screenwriter stole the concept of the alien from Shivers
ALIEN is nothing like Shivers. It does have a similarity to an old Tales from the Crypt comic where a dude gets a snake tattoo on his chest that eventually bursts out from him. It's also very similar to Planet of the Vampires.
He's as braindead as his fans
>The creature winds up as a man in a crocodile suit who chases a bunch of people around a room. Alien was just a $300,000 B-movie with a $10 million budget.”
This is correct, but what's wrong with a B-movie getting polished like so?
>The parasite device isn’t used in a metaphorical way, it wasn’t used to evoke anything
It was rape, stupid. He's pretending to be moronic.
>He didn't get the whole inverting rape and insemination part of the facehugger
Bro do you even HR Geiger art?
> “In Alien, John Hurt has the parasite in him, he goes about his business as usual. In [Cronenberg's 1975 film] Shivers, the parasite stays inside the people and changes their behaviour and their motives. It’s used for something more than simple shock value.”
The alien is literally a metaphor for male childbirth, and the facehugger symbolizes male rape.
But male childbirth doesn't real. Male rape doesn't result in a pregnancy.
And the xeno inherits Kane's personality
I like his movies, especially The Brood.
Still, he's a complete idiot here.
>“I think the night that got me was when David Cronenberg showed up. He is an old friend of mine. Unfortunately, he takes himself so seriously these days. He is an artist now. And literally, he was holding court in the middle of the room, and I came over to talk to him and he didn’t even look at me. I thought this is enough of this. Forget it. Goodbye.” - John Carpenter
Cronenberg made some great movies, but he is probably one of the most pretentious filmmakers out there.
Carpenter is based as frick. I love that he embraces his B movie roots and never pretends to be anything he’s not.
There’s nothing written that says B movies have no artistic merit and have nothing to say. In fact, Id argue the opposite that your average joe is going to get a lot more out of a B movie or a Hollywood picture than dense art movies
Hell, Escape from LA has more to say about American society than Naked Lunch does and —like They Live—Carpenter isn’t afraid to be direct about it
Dangerously based. I actually think I'll see escape from los angeles right now
It took me maybe six watches before I could get past the PEAK camp in that movie and activate unpack thematically what the hell Carpenter, Hill, and Russel were trying to say with that movie
I don’t blame people for saying it’s worse than New York but I think thematically there’s so, so much more going on than NY that people don’t pick up because of how it doubles down on embracing itself as a hokey reboot sequel. It’s as vicious of a critique of America as you can get and is far more ruthless than NY and even maybe a bit more than They Live.
And I have so much respect for his direct screenwriting and visual style. Artists are often so worried about being cringe so they obfuscate to the point where no one gets what they’re even trying to say in the first place. Carpenter doesn’t give a frick and made one of the coolest visial representations of ideological disillusionment because he’s okay with just being direct with the audience. Videodrome is quite similar to They Live but I don’t think Cronenberg is grounded enough for his message to really resonate at that fundamental level.
Hell They Live is as B movie as it gets about aliens with funny faces invading the planet staring a wrestler wearing goofy sunglasses and ends with an alien getting ridden by a chick with massive breasts but it’s message is so powerful that they OBEY iconography is used to this day because people understand that movie spat Truth
The difference is that B movies are more often made by the blue collar or in closer proximity to the blue collar. Meanwhile the more obsessed you are with being an “artist” you are probably not getting your feet wet with what’s important to normal people.
Using B movie as an insult just means your a detached elitist who lacks a comprehensive perspective of films as art. Carpenter’s silly B movies don’t use any flashy tricks but remain better than 90% of what I’ve seen from self proclaimed art houses
the best satirical 80's movies about the 80's were unironically made during the 80's
>Fast Times at Ridgemont High (1982)
>The Hidden (1987)
>RoboCop (1987)
>They Live (1988)
>Scrooged (1988)
>Fast Times at Ridgemont High (1982)
>satirical
moron.
You think that movie was a realistic depiction of highschool?
It was not, but It's realistic now and abortions are common among teeenage girls.
He doesnt think anything, thats why he saw fit to suppress your idea without offering an alternative other than namecalling.
it definitely poked fun at early 80s high school kids. maybe it was more poignant than satire to some
>it definitely poked fun at early 80s high school kids
Yeah it's whole thing is that it's the "more realistic" version of a high school movie.
>The movie spat out truth.
Carpenter is a fan of this sort of cinema (liek Tarantino or Scorsese btw). He's not pretending, he was part of that subculture and likes talking about it. He doesn't look down at the 1951 version of The Thing unlike Cronenberg who didn't think much of the 1958 The Fly.
>peter fonda surfing the big one
i love this movie
a lot of fun, enjoyable movies from that time
I love Cronenberg but this reminds me of when Tarantino put Drive under "Nice Try" for his best of 2011 movie list.
His new movie with Aragorn frickin' SUCKED
Crimes of le future?
>$10 million budget
Didn't get his bonus.
right
Well, that's stupid of him but I loved Videodrome and I haven't seen anything else from Cronenberg, recommend me some other kinos of his.
I think his two best are A History of Violence and Eastern Promises, honestly.
>this beloved classic movie sucks, the shitty movie I made that no one remembers did it way better!
man I’m sick of these egotistical old gays
Dead Zone is the best thing he ever did and even then it's firmly rooted in the whole trashy '80s B-movie thing.
AvP extinction remastered and skirmish mode / map editor when?!?
I actually see what he's getting at. He's not wrong. But I love the movie anyway.
>words words words words
Frick this movie was a piece of shit
Filtered. Cosmopolis is pure kino. Sarah Gadon and Robert Pattinson are amazing.
isn't it common knowledge that the xenomorphs are metaphors for rape?
Not exactly, this myth largely comes from feminist post analyse of the films.
Originally the idea was "nature is cruel"
>metaphysics
I was nearly rendered comatose by that boring pointless speech
>t. plebs too poor to get their stretch prousted
Based John Carpenter called him out on being an arrogant, pretentious homosexual. Said he fancies himself an artistic, high brow filmmaker who thinks he's above everyone else in the game lol.
Based Carpenter I had no idea he said that.
Also the John Carpenter thing is better than anything by cronnenberg and I adore the man but I think he's wrong about alien.
I always saw Carpenter as the better Cronenberg, even if Cronenberg might be more original and artistic
Yeah . Carpenter fell artistically speaking due to the financial and critical failure of the thing.And I don't blame him, he left his soul like the whole crew. Well, 15 years later the thing was recognized for what it is.If the thing had turned out in theaters as an alien, Carpenter's career would be very different. It's a bit sad.
the webm proves me point, christ
It proves that youve been utterly filtered.
>Alien was just a $300,000 B-movie with a $10 million budget.
That's why it's good.
I like Cronenberg much more than Scott, but come on.
>giant clam pussy orally rapes man
>wiener monster bursts out of his chest
>dude where's the metaphor
He mad.
this is disappointing to read. david cronenberg has done some great stuff but what a ridiculous thing to say about a movie. sounds jealous as hell.
movie critic leonard maltin hated it too. i don't see why israelites get so uppity about Alien. it was a well-made, imaginitive, atmospheric, sci-fi horror movie. i mean, just because it's simple, straightforward, yet well-executed, it can't be good? doesn't make sense
>i don't see why israelites get so uppity about Alien.
Maybe because it's about a parasite that kills its host??
>“The parasite device isn’t used in a metaphorical way, it wasn’t used to evoke anything,” Cronenberg said.
Im amazed that this moron has a lesser grasp of cinema than the average Film 101 art prostitute. How could he not catch the Birth / Death Parent / Offspring symbolism? The robot calls it Kane’s son. The ship’s AI is called Mother for fricks sake. The direct + crew have an interview where they’re giggling about scaring grown men by making a “homosexual rape / pregnancy movie” in space. It evokes a primal fear and sets the stage for the ultimate thematic confrontation of the film.
How could he possibly miss this?
Is he being dense on purpose?
Men aren't scared of getting pregnant. Big scary monster that kills you is scary.
I bet you are scared of getting raped
Christ this awful, and Gadon is a terrible actor. Get some better taste in your obsessions.
What frick is the point of this movie? I watched it years ago and didn’t understand what the frick i was watching and why i was watching it. Why is every character autistic? Why is the dialogue so cringe and unnatural?
>Why is every character autistic? Why is the dialogue so cringe and unnatural?
something about rich people being soulless empty husks or whatever
american psycho did it better
Ok i thought it was something like that. Fricking yawn
Filtered.
American Psycho director Mary Harron also cast Sarah Gadon 2 times, in a movie and a series.
Cosmopolis is the great filter. You've been filtered.
Hope this prostitute gets raped by a pack of Black folk.
Im glad you have a movie you like so much anon i havent seen one ive liked that much in quite a while now
It's the Gadongay lol he doesn't care about the movie, just that his waifu is in it
>has no metaphysics
Thank frick for that.
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, David
I don't entirely disagree with him but I think it's a bit reductionist and I fail to see how Scanners or Dead Zone are any better. Alien is a more interesting and entertaining film than either of those films as well.
Scanners is boring as hell, real disappointment after seeing the head explosion gif for years.
Scanners feels like they just filmed a rough draft, to me. It's not terrible but it's not a classic either.
>It has to be exactly like my movies or it's frustrating
What a pretentious homosexual.
this just sounds like him being extremely territorial about who gets to make body horror. and it's incredibly disingenuous, there is a ton of analysis about Alien and all its sexual imagery, etc. He is just chafed because it's the sort of film he feels he should have been allowed to make.
What is the 'deep philosophy' of videodrome, that the TV could kill ya? shut up. David's best movies are the non-horror ones anyway, The Fly is the only worthwhile one.
>What is the 'deep philosophy' of videodrome, that the TV could kill ya?
Not disagreeing with your point, but my interpretation of Videodroem is how taking in too much extreme media (hardcore pornography, gratuitous violence, etc.) will have an impact on you as a person
That, mass media used to change a person's view of the world, a war for the minds of consumers, the extermination of "the proles" of society. I wouldn't say it's deep but it is touching on multiple things.
>What is the 'deep philosophy' of videodrome, that the TV could kill ya?
I agree hes being a prick but to speak to Videodrome's message it is rather saying that radio wave frequencies combined with visual images can put one into a state of brainwashing hypnosis that results in a physical transformation into a "weapon" of those you are being hypnotized by which is actually a relevant message today. So if you dont even understand his art maybe dont make such definitive statements.
>hey look im stupid and dont understand videodrome heres why you should take my opinion seriously on his best movie
jesus christ lol
>it is rather saying that radio wave frequencies combined with visual images can put one into a state of brainwashing hypnosis that results in a physical transformation into a "weapon" of those you are being hypnotized by which is actually a relevant message today.
Lol.
Lmao. Lmfao even.
I don't know if there's ever been a movie as explicitly about propaganda as videodrome
yeah that's right out of Mcluhan's World Village and 'the medium is the message' which was all the rage with academics like him back then and when Alien released, it's not surprising he'd take a more rigorous stance about popular art
It's from here? Give me a sec.
Ok there are three issues of Fangoria from 1979. In none of them did I see Cronenberg giving his opinion on it though there are articles about it, this poster. But there's a ton of other more interesting stuff like King expressing his doubts about Kubrick's casting choices for The Shining, an article by a "young new talent" Ed Godziszewski who will become the most popular Godzilla historian in the coming decades, interview with Robert Florey who was supposed to direct 1931 Frankenstein, articles written by authors like Matheson or Bloch.
Google says it's pic related.
Yeah sorry it's issue #3 just really fricking hard to see in my copy.
Unlike today there are very few reviews in those old film mags. This probably changed in the 90s. G-Fan was first published in the 90s and it was full of sometimes brutally honest reviews but I checked what Fangoria said about John Carpenter's The Thing and there are articles/interviews with Dean Cundey, Rob Bottin and John Carpenter but not much in terms of real reviews other than that it was "apparently well received"
Btw I don't know if anyone would care but here's an interview with Klaus Kinski.
>that last sentence
Ominous.
>here's an interview with Klaus Kinski.
Does he talk about diddling his daughter?
He mentions that he's better than Hitler.
I like Cronenberg's films generally, but this reveals Cronenberg to be a total israelite.
Also, his son makes better films than him. Go to hell israelite.
Chud
Carpenter's filmography is more iconic than these three. truth be told
Well duh
all hollywood success is manufactured
this actual homosexual made naked lunch, his moronic and gay opinion is invalid
You think the average boomer back then even had a concept of shit like "metaphysics" whatever he thinks that means. Even in this day and age they're using a paper and pencil to explain concepts to the audience like they're moronic, which they are. Trying to do shit like that on screen will never work out in this lifetime
It's strange coming from Cronenberg who's the most well known materialist in the business.
Materialism falls under the umbrella of metaphysics. Taking about metaphysics doesn't commit you to believing in spirits or woo or whatever.
Cronenberg? Oh you mean that guy from the rick and morty episode?
KEK
the hack who makes piles of intestines with teeth squeal and writhe around is seething he didn’t design the most iconic horror monster of all time
that canuck israelite literally called this a crocodile. no wonder why that leaf Black person needs glasses
DRINK DEEP, OR TASTE NOT, THE PLASMA SPRING!
He was completely right then and has been proven even more right in the years since. Alien did for horror what Star Wars did for movies in general: move away from intelligent, mature filmmaking for adults towards simplistic kid tier narratives, nostalgia pandering, franchising and sequelitis, profit over everything. After Alien and Halloween horror movies of the 80s became interchangeable slasher slop for teenagers with fake blood and guts and a worse sequel coming out every year
>move away from intelligent, mature filmmaking for adults
Yeah those Universal Monsters and William Castle flicks were brimming with intellectual philosophical subtext.
Horror and sci-fi are trashy genres by nature. There's a reason why the 70s auteurs didn't give them the kind of attention they did to gangster movies, westerns and cop thrillers (with a couple exceptions like Exorcist, Rosemary's Baby, Carrie, Jaws)
Like Scorsese who's a fan of Hammer and Toho movies? They didn't always have to actually make movies in those genresvtp8n.
Sci Fi is the only important genre.
>gangsters, cowboys, cops
Literally pulp for preteen boys
I watched an interview with Ellison, Wolfe and Asimov and they were shitting on "sci-fi" movies like star wars saying theres no sci fi, its just an action movie with special effects. The interview made me want to read more of Ellison, he seemed coked out of his mind during it
Ellison was another one of those "only I know what Sci-Fi is" pretentious navel-gazer types who got away with running his mouth for far too long because his fanboys didn't tell him to frick off often enough.
He's right but we don't get told what he was asked to make him reply like this. The interviewer probably tried to lump alien in with his movies as "body horror" because of the chest burster. I think carpenter would agree that alien isnt like a cronenberg movie, and it wasn't trying to be.
Frick i mean Ridley, and never mind he would be up his own ass about it.
Why did i think Carpenter made alien and Halloween?
>carpenter
wat
See
I had a brain fart. I literally confused alien with Halloween for a moment because they are both slashers
>A monster movie is a monster movie
Thanks for the commentary, Dave.
I love Cronenberg, but he can't talk shit after his recent Crimes of the Future which was absolute dogshit.
Glad it's not just me, thought I must be missing something. I wanted to like it but couldn't even finish it.
Same dude. I saw it with several friends at a cottage trip, and for the first third of the movie some of us were coping and trying to make arguments for the film making quality - which drained away by the 60% mark before we gave up. It was brutal.
Same. I could not really finish it. I skipped forward to see if there was anything to the damn movie. Nope just crap. Gotta be the most pretentious low-effort crap I ever saw. I seem to recall critics generally praising it. Absolute dog turd of a movie.
Sometimes I wonder how John Carpenter himself feels about becoming the God of Incels
I think he's to busy rocking out to synth to care about what internet Black folk think.
well i think he's quite touched by it honestly. if he grew up watching godzilla movies alone in a theater, he was literally an incel himself at one time. no girl would dare go see a godzilla flick with an L7 like you back in the 60s
Carpenter won in the end because he could recognize the true quality and now the critics caught up with him.
>Canadian mentality
>Alien was just a $300,000 B-movie with a $10 million budget.
Absolutely true, but now we see D-movies with $300 million budgets, so Alien looks better by comparison.
>dismisses Alien as b-movie slop
>stars in pic related
What did Cronenberg mean by this?
Maybe he liked that Baphomet is a good guy in it and it makes you sympathize with the innocent monsters that Christians unjustly persecuted just because they were le different.
Nightbreed is absolute fricking kino
I think he was doing it as a favor for Clive.
It’s weird how such a good director is so oblivious to the universally accepted metaphor, symbolism, and commentary. Hey I guess its philosophy isn’t as deep as “I hate my ex wife.” But he’s always had negative things to say about anything that’s better and more successful than anything he ever did.
>universally accepted metaphor, symbolism, and commentary
Probably wasn't made up and spread around yet at the time when he said this stuff.
Ah so he had to wait to have it spoonfed to him and he still doesn’t understand it. What a moron.
What elevates it above a B movie is the theme of motherhood and rape being the ultimate "invading force" and the Alien as a hunter is a result of that force. Its the threat of rape, not the threat of a crocodile. Even the android robot man when he tries to "kill" Ripley he does it by shoving a newspaper down her throat like penis. Like what the frick kind of sense does that even make? Snap her neck. But he does it for the symbolism.
none of which is new. in his film Rabid a woman with a drill in her armpit penetrates and zombifies men. talk about rape symoblism
>none of which is new
And the ancient world had stories about succubuses and similar monsters as well. Cronenberg didn't invent them. What's your point
artistic exploration vs utility as entertainment as he stated in OP quote
Say again? what exactly are you claiming? You agree with Cronenberg's jealous bullshit?
The true alien was Capitalism
A History of Violence and Eastern Promises are Cronenberg's best movies.
>NOOOOOOO YOU CAN'T JUST MAKE A STRAIGHTFORWARD HORROR MOVIE, YOU HAVE TO MAKE IT WEIRD SO PRETENTIOUS HACKS CAN PRETEND IT'S DEEP
>Alien was just a $300,000 B-movie with a $10 million budget.”
He's not wrong and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. He sounds mad though.
Upon reflection, he's wrong about Alien, but he is right about Ridley Scott. Despite his ability to make beautiful images, Scott's films are only skin deep. This month I finished watching all his films and I couldn't tell you how many 2-2.5/5 duds that mans made on his career. Frankly, it's astounding he still has a career.
The xenomorph reproduction process is a metaphor for extremism. We get grabbed by ideas, and they grow inside us, until they burst out and cause mass murder or war. It's also incredibly difficult to stop that process on an individual once it's started. The parasite uses us to kill us. The perfect organism if I may say so myself.
Regardless of what he has to say about alien, cronenberg is by far one of the worst directors to ever live. All of his most well known films, from A History of Violence to Eastern Promises to all of his new shit, are absolute laughable dogshit. The only reason he's relevant is because lots of Americans are degenerates desperate for attention, so they latch onto his weird shit, just like those homosexuals that dress up in dog costumes and leather muzzles.
underrated
>all these history of violence apologists in this thread
you people should have a nice day
the Alien is supposed to be a metaphor for nature, it's based on a wasp. Something that horrified Charles Darwin and made him question wether there was a god.
It's also very Lovecraftian
Cronenberg isn't even a very socially or politically conscious filmmaker. He's more of a pure abstract arthouse guy like Greenaway or Resnais
100% right
Cronenberg is the most based filmmaker alive. He cast Sarah Gadon in 3 of his movies consecutively.
>Cronenberg is the most based filmmaker alive. He cast Sarah Gadon in 3 of his movies consecutively.
Extremely based and Gadonpilled.
He's so lucky he got Sarah Gadon to be in his movies.
he was asked to do alien 4 but refused. would have been interesting to see his version.
Counter-argument:
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/films-gent-alien-the-gents-place-men-s-fine-groomin/
Things in film are allowed to simply be horrific, Hollywood directors need to stop waxing on about meaning after they rape those kids for the hundredth time. It's a bad look.
Frick off, Cronenberg, there's a reason people remember Craven and Carpenter and you're just a Rick and Morty reference
> there's a reason people remember Craven and Carpenter
No one remembers these hacks
corporations throwing employees under the bus for profits?
rape and death by childbirth, but for a man?
the spy/commie in your group of friends?
Cronenberg has always been a mediocre director in terms of form. And by form I mean composition, editing, blocking, etc. This makes him jealous of someone visually gifted like Ridley Scott, and he has to hide himself behind his metaphors and symbolism.
I love cronenberg and can agree with this but they're completely different and both great directors, cronenberg being jealous of Scott is like a hot jap girl being jealous of a girl with natural red hair, it's disappointing to see him being so petty
Well said. Cronenberg has never been a visually striking director (gruesome practical effects aside). Very layman-ish approach to filmmaking.
So who is the real creator of the Alien? HR Giger? Ridley Scott for being the director? The writers? Who actually owned the creative rights?
fox, now disney.
Ok but who is credited at creating the concept/visuals of the creature?
giger made the art before the movie. ridley saw it on a show/gallery or something. the final design was adjusted for the movie, no penis little mouth and other stuff.
so giger did most of the work.
Thanks. That is reassuring as it is clear Ridley has lost his chops for the franchise from Covenent and was worried the creator had no love for the alien anymore.
The Alien is basically the child of Giger (design), Dan O'Bannon (original idea) and Scott (director).
Good. While Predators most current entry was solid, i still prefer ALIEN overall even with constant change of hands.
Giger designed it, O'Bannon thought about it but the actual writers were the two producers (who didn't get the credit for actually writing the movie), Scott acts like he owns the franchise but he was just a hired hand.
He's not really wrong. But Alien still works because of the atmosphere and the design of the creature/ship...which kinda somehow blends together at some point. The acting has to be mentionned too. Otherwise, yes, it would be a generic B movie like many have tried after Alien.
Basically, he's saying it doesn't interest him...i'm not sure why he'd comment on it though. Probably some interviewer asked him his opinion, knowing he'd say something like that.
>Why isn't this movie philosophical and metaphysical enough for my tastes!?
What an egocentric asshat - Alien is a great movie and it gets across what it's trying to without trying to be pretentious. Any movie that pulls me into its world and keeps me there from start to finish has my respect. The sound design on this move and Aliens is also criminally underrated. Willing to be Cronenberg doesn't have any taste for that kind of thing though.
ITT: brown """people""" shitting and pissing their pants in anger over a white man daring to want movies to be more than capeshit
~~*Cronenberg*~~
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA
nice bait
I think where Cronenberg fails is not seeing Alien for what it is. He’s thinking about Alien the way he would do it. He’s not taking it for what it is and it is a B movie with a $10 million budget. Imposing your own views on what a film should or shouldn’t be is ultimately irrelevant because you can’t change it. You can only take what’s on the screen. Criticize it for what it is, not what you want it to be, especially when your ideas are pretentious.
>“The creature winds up as a man in a crocodile suit
lol wut
>Alien was just a $300,000 B-movie with a $10 million budget.”
Sure in a way, I think even Ridley has said as much but B-movies are awesome. All these comments of his is jealous copium.
KWAB
"I literally saw Texas Chainsaw Massacre and said, 'I want to do that in space.'"
Interesting. I thought he saw 2001 and thought it was missing a scary alien creature
He unironically right and that's the reason Scott had to add David in prequels to add some depth and they still ended up ultra high budget slashers
>Scott had to add David
he didnt "have to" add him and scott adding his AI shit is what made prometheus and covenant not work. you clearly see it in the film, the alien and the AI parts dont match at all. its like you are watching 2 different movies in one.
I like that scene in one of his kinos where Viggo fights two knife-armed men in a sauna. I remember being shocked by that scene.
>Alien was just a $300,000 B-movie with a $10 million budget
Wasn't that the point?
What's with all the alien threads these last few days? Right this very moment there's like 4 threads at once
>more than the simple reaction that you don’t want a crocodile to eat you
That's the point of horror. Horror *is* that simple visceral reaction. If you have to intellectualize it, you've already lost. If the monster represents depression or some other angsty concept of not being able to find a partner or what have you, or like the spiders in that jake gyllenhaal movie, then it's not fear you're dealing with.
>AAAAHHHH THE MOVIE WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER IF I MADE IT
cronenerg is a good director but he has an actual problem
>Dude, why isn't anyone turning into a hideous creature? Isn't that a requirement?
I really don't agree with Cronenberg here and the way he's being intentionally obtuse about the Alien parasite is hilarious, but overall, he certainly kept a higher quality of flicks than Scott.
Alien >>> everything by Cronenberg
Cronenberg complete works > Scott complete works
What a dumbass. The philosophy of Alien is that it's a minimalist cosmic horror movie in which humans have extended their puny human way of life into the scifi era (doing boring human hauling like ordinary dockworkers, but in space), and instead of outer space being glamorous or beautiful, it's a cold dead bleak depressing place of infinite night and impossible scale, which the ordinary dockworker types mostly try to ignore and tolerate, just like ships' crews do today when they're in the hold during a storm, drinking and playing cards.
Only a small minority of people on earth have the wherewithal to think about things like what other life and other civilizations might exist out there, and these people too are simply human, just pieces of shit whose only motive is profit and whose only thought is to send disposable people to bring back anything they find so that they can pick it apart with puny human tools that reflect puny human motives and perspective. You get the impression the company has done this before, basically picking at the ruins of things much much bigger than humanity. Also that humanity is at a sort of dead end, the movie isn't exactly about Carl Sagans getting excited about aliens, it's about a civilization of "need to know"-level dockworkers being governed by distant cynical amoral types. There's no sense of the grandeur of ancient alien precursor vessels. There's no one to have such a perspective, there are only dockworkers who want to go home and go back to their ignorance because space is too fricking big.
It's cosmic horror done well. The alien isn't the POINT of Alien. The POINT is that that's the kind of hideous awful shit that exists out there. The space jockey species is far more majestic than us, but also freakish and not inviting either (we can't even tell what the space jockey really is or where it ends and the ship begins), and even it fell prey to some kind of horrible monster that is probably just one of infinitely many.
after reading the first and third paragraph of your post, I agree
is it worth reading the middle one?
It's a monster movie
You don't think the spiritual remake (unintended according to O'Bannon) of It! The Terror from Beyond Space is really very deep?
He's right, Alien is and has always been overrated shit. Cameron saw it for what it is, a silly monster movie made by a pretentious gay who wasted its potential making it slow, and took the monster to make it fun in Aliens.
he's right you know
I love how artgays just use the word 'metaphysics' wherever they feel like even if it makes no sense
Frick that gaygit
> it's Drive + John Wick in the end.
smartest mass-replying ridley scott stan
The Fly is 80s horror kino. History of Violence was pretty good, but I rewatched it a few months ago and I feel like it hasnt aged well... can't really put my thumb on why, it just feels that way to me. Dead Zone was also pretty good and I enjoyed Scanners.
Crimes of The Future was one of the most pretentious, self-indulgent pieces of trash I've ever seen-- It all reeks of an "artist" who's so far up his ass that he thinks he's too good for the fundamentals of story-telling... You know, stuff like Pacing, Character Development, and having a fricking point.
And from the looks of it his son has the same over-inflated ego. I watched INFINITY POOL and it sucked balls
>I watched INFINITY POOL and it sucked balls
I liked it well enough but I think its biggest issue is that the main protagonist is not very likable at all the way he's written, though he is a fine usually charismatic actor. If they made him more relatable it would have been much better
thinking about it
why are SO many of Cronenberg's films adaptations?
it's too bad this era doesn't have a superstar writer like Stephen King to fuel another golden age of book to screen horror cinema. Say what you will about the quality it helped fuel a lot of legends careers