>Marvel Comics placed forty-nine comics in the Top 75. Month-over-month sales were up from the forty-eight comics that Marvel Comics had in the Top 75 in March 2024. Year-over-year numbers were flat as Marvel Comics had forty-nine comics in the Top 75 in April 2023. Numbers were up from two years ago as Marvel Comics had forty-two comics in the Top 75 in April 2022.
>DC Comics placed twelve comics in the Top 75. Month-over-month sales were down from the sixteen comics that DC Comics had in the Top 75 in March 2024. Year-over-year numbers were also down as DC Comics had seventeen comics in the Top 75 in April 2023. Numbers were also down from two years ago as DC Comics had twenty-one comics in the Top 75 in April 2022.
>These numbers continue to highlight the total failure of the Dawn of DC initiative as sales are down from a year and two years ago. At this point, everything looks bleak for DC Comics. Poor DC Comics is basically just a smashed bug on Marvel Comics’ windshield. At some point, there is going to have to be a change in leadership and editorial.
no shit, sherlock. marvels dying just as fast aswell.
>marvels dying just as fast aswell.
No, the numbers definitely show DC is dying faster. Marvel kept its rankings from 2022 and 2023, DC lost rankings both times.
whatever helps you sleep at night
amen
Marvel's king of an ever shrinking and dying floppy market, but their trades are doing far far worse than DC's.
https://www.comicsbeat.com/tilting-at-windmills-297-bookscan-2023-comics-sales-sag-but-scholastic-was-still-a-powerhouse/
>Marvel and DC combined are less than 10% of the book market.
>Marvel continued to severely underperform in the bookstore market, with their licensees having greater success – sometimes with the exact same materials. Marvel had one book in the Top 750, while Viz, Disney, Scholastic and Abrams beat every single comic Marvel itself published.
>Of other five of the Top Twenty, two are Manga, and if you are looking for a “Marvel / DC-style superhero” comic that was generated for the Direct Market, you are looking at “Watchmen” coming in at item #305, for about 24k sold! As for Marvel? Their very first appearance isn’t until all the way down at #557 with Spider-Punk (about 12k).
DC has the advantage of strong one off books that are classics today and easy to catch up and read. Batman alone has multiple incredible books.
Eh....
The killing joke is now crap because of the rooftop frick session and the STRONG INDEPENDENT DONT NEED NO MAN shit with Barbara Gordon that seemed like it was approved of by out of touch middle aged men and fat or just total loser women of a not as fat size who've never been in a position where they had to actually fight a single soul.
A bad cartoon adaptation doesn't ruin the book itself which remains untouched, aside from Bolland's terrible choice of colors.
I agree. But o have to admit that a bad adaptation might stop people from checking out the original.
Didn't hurt any of Alan Moore's other books any and he's had plenty of bad adaptations.
Killing Joke remains one of DC's best sellers. The cartoon's already been forgotten by most.
YES STUPID IT DOES
Because the fricking book isn't a must read thing nor are comics that big anymore.
If the first exposure to that story is that cartoon, then the comic will be not looked at favorably.
Stop putting your head in the sand.
and apparently DC is king of a trade market they are increasingly being crowded out of
Damn that's pathetic. Hard to imagine that DC used to actually being #1 in western trade sales when fricking Watchmen can't even crack 25k.
I wonder
Did any guy from the 80/90s ever predict this?
Like "superheroes taking over the industry will kill it"
Because even the 70s had non superhero focus for a while
No. We didn’t know Internet and treating would hurt print media.
Also we didn’t know Manga would become more accessible and popular amongst future generations to extent that it has.
I heard that before manga came along, girls not liking comics was seen as a "natural" thing instead of them just not liking the Content
Yes exactly.
The few who did were Tomboys.
Or the older emo and goth girls into Vertigo and other Indie stuff.
Almost Makes me want to compare The Manga invasion to the British Invasion , with the Beatles
Yeah, girls hated comi-wha'ts this doing here?
The reason why romance comics died is because girls lost interest in buying them. If they were selling just as well as the capes, they never would have disappeared.
Anon...no.
Women still buy word porn from grocery stores and took to reading archie.
No, CCA killed the romance comic genre.
You know goddamned well none of the women you wrote could write chick aimed drama and erotica to save their lives.
>>No, CCA killed the romance comic genre.
DC published multiple romance comics well into the 70s, 20 years after the CCA was created. It wasn't the CCA.
>You know goddamned well none of the women you wrote could write chick aimed drama and erotica to save their lives.
that's the point
ironically it's mostly men buying these now. and if they were made today they'd be written by rainbow rowell and tini howard and stephanie philips.
Eh, it was more spoken of in the sense of "We just haven't figured out how to crack this market yet." But the gender dynamics of the 1990s were very, very different than those of today. It wasn't seen as a sin that comics had an overwhelming male audience. Hell, look at how the 90s were the last heyday of cheesecake bad girl comics.
More generally speaking, people didn't talk about comics dying. They talked about how it'd inevitably break out into the mainstream, and how Watchmen and DKR were the first hints of the glorious future to come. Movies were also seen as a gateway to mass appeal.
But yeah, manga wasn't even on the radar. It was just some weird niche stuff that Dark Horse published on the side.
It’s even funnier when you talk to current comic creators that have kids themselves. When you ask them which comics do their own kids read, 9 times out of 10 they say they read manga, not comics.
Ask them to name at least 5 mainstream big 2.5 comics they would be okay with letting thier children read.
I can garauntee you that they'll say none of them.
NA Comics are not for children tweens teens or even normal adults.
They are for a tiny and shrinking market of NA cape comic fans.
The only ONLY comicbook style thing I would allow kids to watch and not feel worried is TeenTitans Go and old BTAS from before they went to WB and had that ass ugly change of everything.
>We just haven't figured it out yet
Archie figured it out decades before lmao
>They talked about how it'd inevitably break out into the mainstream, and how Watchmen and DKR were the first hints of the glorious future to come
That was the late 80s. By the late 90s, when comics went direct market only followed by the crash, there was a lot of talk of comics dying. Gail Simone published Women in Refrigerators in 1999 and the industry grovelled and begged for her forgiveness.
Gail Simone having to tip toe around liking women in sexy outfits on twitter and still getting called out was bizarre to see
Revolutions tend to eat their own leaders once they prove insufficiently zealous.
Meanwhile those same Twitterfrickers love to talk about Nightwing’s ass
The market was already dying at this point. The internet and their inability to actually adapt to digital formats is what's killing them. No one is going to pay the same for a digital version of a physical print of a book.
no one would pay digital either because the stories aren't worth 5 cents.
It's not just digital distribution. People just weren't interested in what DC and Marvel were selling. Manga started from basically zero in the 1990s, in terms of the American marketplace, and has completely obliterated the direct market.
And anime as a thin wedge for manga sales only goes so far. The MCU was the biggest pop culture force on the planet for like a 10 year stretch there, but Marvel Comics couldn't exploit that. Manga built off Toonami and 4Kidz dubs.
see:
They don't give a frick.
The comic market is fricked and marvel and dc looked at the comic industry thumbed their noses up at them and laughed.
They dont' care about how destructive it is to the market or how they bring NOTHING to the table or can bring new readers in. They don't have too.
>numbers
what numbers? none of them release sale numbers anymore.
>No, the numbers definitely show DC is dying faster.
>two dying men literally death rattling but this dying man is dying faster, therefore the other guy's winning
>meanwhile there's 200-year-old Japanese man getting his 80th cybernetic augmentation, can now shoot atomic lasers from his eyes
Good riddance, DC.
Good riddance, Marvel.
you can tell its really bad cause theyve even lost grace with their pig/whale fans that would literally buy anything featuring their favored stable. the batman, hal, superman, and barry fanboys have stopped reading the slop.
when a bands greatest hits albums stop selling well and them copying their old sound fails to get the die hard fans back. thats a clear sign that its truly over.
so whats next? reboots? another crisis? shock value deaths? bringing back grant morrison? it looks like its truly over.
>Jim Lee afk
>Dispassionate/incompetent editors
>Hiring morons like Tynion, King, Leah Williams, Tini Howard, Sheridan, Rosenberg, Jadzia Axelrod, Stephanie Philips, and so on
>Hiring moronic women who only entered comics because of the MCU boom
>Hiring Marvel's failed leftovers
>Absolute Dogshit pre-sales low
Good. They deserve it.
>that page
please tell me that's just a dumb edit, for the love of god
would you prefer a lie or the truth
I'm going to bed
enjoy the nightmares.
Lie please.
It was a funny edit some anon made to clown on the What if Miles Morales was Thor book
Thanks, I can continue living another day believing this to be true.
Series and issue #?
Action Comics 1055 (2023)
Lee is fricking useless just like Didio
Both companies are full of old boomer fricks who know the industry is a zombie and are just coasting
That seems to be a HUGE problem from what I see. So many famous companies are being directed by stinking senior citizens who at their youngest they are in their seventies when they should be retired. Needless say seeing old farts in their eighties still pretending to have a say in business is annoying. Don't get me started on sons of b***hes like Rupert Murdoch the head of FOX who still thinks anyone cares about what he thinks even though he's in his nineties and should have dropped year years ago. Seriously when you think about old people in business, studios, and companies you just want them to do the honorable thing which is to DIE OFF ALREADY.
>still pretending to have a say in business
Isn't the problem they're not pretending, they do in fact own and run the businesses?
The young bloods are even worse; they're the ones purposely injecting gay shit into everything they can get their hands on.
I guarantee whatever young person they're replaced with will be worse
Lee at least had his niche of mastering a certain style that a lot of people liked
In an ideal industry he would be one of many masters of an artstyle in DC
Who fricking wrote this, Jesus h Christ
She doesn't talk like a black girl, she's talking like a drag queen
I actually recently bought the first three issues of Steel. Lmaoing at this shit.
That Scott Snyder Don't Call It The Ultimate Universe stuff really better save their asses. Along with whatever else they have planned for whatever DC All In is.
Do we actually know anything about the new ScottSnyderverse
Shouldn’t you be happy? This is what you wanted.
I wanted DC to be good instead of shit.
Good in what way? Because good content doesn’t correlate or necessitate good sales and vice versa.
>Good in what way?
Well for starters, I'd like for them to publish more than zero comics I enjoy per year.
The Ape-ril special didn’t do anything for you?
It did, it made me cringe.
Maybe the issue is actually your own bad taste. Or unwillingness to read anything outside of a highly narrow comfort zone.
>it's not me that's wrong, it's them!
The issue is that DC produces almost nothing but garbage you cum drinking dipshit.
Just admit you either don’t read anything or you have terrible taste.
Pretty sure you're the one with the terrible taste since objectively no one is buying their comics anymore. No one likes DC now.
Just admit you're a shill who sucks more dicks than DC comics.
I doubt it since if this was just me being cranky, they'd be selling gangbusters and get praised online but they're clearly doing nothing of the sort. DC is eating shit on every sales and engagement metric we have and has been for years. The only reasonable conclusion is that their product is bad. DC releases very bad comics, made by creators who clearly should have been fired years ago along with their editors and of course Jim Lee the do-nothing CEO. They should all be gone, replaced.
Sales are never a good meter for actual quality.
>It's good because no one is buying it
I guess Cinemaphile needs to shut the frick up about Taylor, Tynion, King, etc. because they’ve all sold tons of comics.
so what is? Storytimes? DC books barely get storytimed anymore. Fricking Batman didn't get storytimed on release day this week, and the thread died in less than 200 posts.
Storytimes don’t mean jackshit
I'm intrigued as to what your metric of choice is.
TDK sales? Frank hasn't written Batman in ages.
They are. It shows interaction. Discussion. It is a good indication on fans interested in discussing it.
I like Worlds finest
I mean they can't technically fail since they're owned by Warner Bros. I mean I guess WB could fail, too.
I like and try to be positive about DC and I'm reading and enjoying maybe 5 books? It's rough. What's sad to me is I can see they're trying and I can see all the pieces being laid out but they just aren't clicking together
>I can see they're trying
>Big 2 focus on catering to people who don't even read comics but still post their outrage on twitter all the time
>manga doesn't
I wonder if rising sales in manga and dropping sales in comics have anything to do with this
Because the DCU failed. And since their pay is so bad, that they dont get good writers anymore.
Bro.
Their both dead now. And becasue of the way they controlled the market and shit on other comics and creators they ensured that the NA comic market will die with them.
>MUH SALES FIGURES!!!
The sales numbers have been coooked for years.
It's time to give up.
DC and Marvel are both DoA everyone knows it and all indie comics are shit on publically and loudly by those two and the rats on the sinking ship that are the "creatives" are sniping at anyone who is thriving hoping to take them down thinking it will somehow stop the titanic from sinking.
Pretty sure that the entire business plan is to make a couple of stories they can adapt in other media. You can tell they're not making any money since they started listening to the omnibus-community.
That's moronic because you could just make the movie without it being adapted from a comic first. This is one of those things that people just say. I think the keep the publishing divisions because they're (slightly) profitable, and Marvel and DC were comic brands first, and it's still important to have that for the overall portfolios.
Just two more weeks and they’re bankrupt! Fact!!!
They are already bankrupt bro.
They are litterally a poorly paid low cost no oversite rag that employs like...20 people at a time.
LIke disney, they are BEYOND in debt and should have been collapsed and sold off long ago.
But because they do the social engineering stuff and have blackrock/vanguard/state street/gates as majority stock holder they are basically invincible.
Ponzi schemes seem stable, until you actually find where their money is coming from
Anon, they know.
Why do you think they made jon a teen and a homosexual out of nowhere?
Look. The people they work for? They can write blank checks and protect any failed company even one as "too big to fail" as disney from being rightfully broken up for being insolvent.
They are not a ponzi scheme
They are a failed business doing whatever they need to surivive even if what they have to do makes their business go from making okay money to being completely dead but being kept alive like a parasite.
The day the comic shops distance themselves from be big 2.5(marvel dc image) and go indie manga and back issues only it's over.
All they need to do is beg a few well known cfreators who are bigger then the IP in teh comic community to get together and make some comics for whatever they want.
I'm saying Blackrock and all those firms are the Ponzi scheme, not DC
You don't know what you're talking about, and it couldn't be more obvious.
Disney and WB discovery have comparable amounts of debt, but Disney has more than twice the revenue and 6 times the market cap. Disney's paid down a quarter of its debt over the last three years; it owes a little over half a year's revenue. It doesn't look like sunshine and roses, but Disney is just in a regular tight spot for a company in 2024.
WBD is a toilet fire. Their debt is larger than their revenue and their whole market cap is less than a quarter of their debt.
And they have the most moronic CEO to ever pick out an endangered jungle wood desk running the whole thing into said toilet as though that were the job, which it might actually be.
Rumors is DC is to announced a major change to their publishing line at San Diego Comic Con in August. This will have huge major implications for industry in September. Are we about to finally see them finally license some of their titles out to Image as been talked about for last year ?
Cinemaphile is supposed to be the comics and cartoon board and it's pretty much mostly cartoons discussed now compared to comics before. Pretty much shows how much comics have turned to shit when the dedicated fans here barely talk about them anymore.
More like people b***h and whine so much about everything that they’ve driven out most people and all that’s left are low effort cartoon watchers who can just turn on their TV and then start posting online how cartoons are too woke now while barely paying attention to the show.
Where did people even go to discuss comics?
Chat rooms, irc channels, forums and comic shops
You know those things that used to exist before the goverhnet and google conspired to kill all of the above and funnel us into ciontolled social media platforms.
>maintain the shrinking, aging existing reader base
Anon.
They stopped doing that a long time ago. People are collecting comics out of habit, not becasue they care or want to read the latest issues.
Very very very very few comics are worth even piking up to look at for a few seconds anymore.
Let alone even thinking about.
There is no such thing as constant growth in businees. It's a fantasy a farce a lie.
Its' something greedy morons want who want to drain a business dry and frick off to drain another business dry.
They can't even maintain what they fricking have and keep somethng to give to the next gen to keep it STABLE.
Comics were getting new readers through the 10s and then they stalled and started dying around 2015-17. It's possible they could turn it around, just like they turned around the downturn in the late 90s/early 00s. Probable is another question.
>2017
People got sick of all the main heroes who had been replaced in a short space of time and events like Secret Empire shitting on characters. It got SO BAD that comic shop owners had a go at Marvel over it.
>Two older retailers started raising their voices arguing about diversity and how it does not work.
https://bleedingcool.com/comics/heated-scenes-marvel-retailer-nycc/
And Marvel VP of Sales David Gabriel said diversity was an issue and then backtracked his comments and said they were misquoted.
>Marvel's David Gabriel On Sales Slump: People "Didn't Want Any More Diversity," "Didn't Want Female Characters"
https://bleedingcool.com/comics/marvels-david-gabriel-sales-slump-people-didnt-want-diversity-didnt-want-female-characters/
Feels like Image had a wave of popularity in the 2010s that died down.
Capes are dead anon.
It looks like it was raising becasue they started including stuff like dogboy, diary of a wimpy kid, and manga.
By safe and not cool they litterally mean they know the capes and badguys will go back to the status quo, the world won't change and it's all pointless bullshit that is ultimately morally corrupt because they deep down know that allmight dollar is more important then the story and any morality they tell is hopelessly broken.
There are teens going home with stuff that's more tame then 90's image stuff.
They're dying, yes, but they're not dead yet. They were dying in the late 90s and early 00s, but they bounced back. Manga in the US was also dying from 2008-13, slowly started coming back, and then exploded in a big way in 2021. But it too has apparently hit its peak and started sliding down.
None of Berger's Books have been huge hits either. No one talks about any of those books like they have Sandman, Preacher, Transmet, etc.The cultural zeitgeist has moved on.
>By safe and not cool they litterally mean they know the capes and badguys will go back to the status quo
It's not just the superheroes go. Graphic novels for teens are all these samey soft SoL or generic fantasy series. Or an "historic" work that tries to condesce a lot of shit into one book. Honestly the art is always pretty bland looking, I don't think a lot of people going into comics knows what teenagers actually want.
>Comics were healing with New52 and Hickman-Wars and Saga but died around DCYOU/ANAD-Marvel/Saga paused
There's many reasons for this but I maintain the main problem is that Marvel, DC, and Image failed to enter the Digital market in any meaningful way so they lost out to Manga. They half-assed their digital comics offerings instead of trying to be cutthroat with the pricing and promotional campaigns.
Manga is infinitely easier for zoomzooms and gen alphas to access than American comics. Faithful Anime adaptations of popular manga also help further funnel normies into manga readership.
Imagine how big Marvel could be if they had launched some kind of normie-friendly Nu-Ultimate universe to take advantage of the huge spike in MCU fans. Or if DC just did cartoon adaptations of popular/successful story arcs without all the bullshit producers put in so that they can feel in-control over an adapatation (for example: the Red Son cartoon movie)
Marvel and DC dying is a good thing. It's the only way comics can truly heal, because the uninformed masses still think Marvel and DC consist of 99% of comics coming out, and still think comics are all just superheroes.
they should do a Gordon Ramsay comic
I don't feel sad about it anymore. They did it to themselves.
>in the Top 75.
Need I remind you that those are not accurate sales numbers and they're only samples from very few stores?
Aren’t they primarily based on orders directly to the company itself?
>DC is going to fricking die for real
The whole ship is going down, and you're worried about a single crewman.
Comics as a medium will survive, in spite of what the big 2.5 tried to do to the NA comic scene.
No one in NA comics knows how to sell the cape genre without resorting to basic b***h deconstruction and pandering.
Nor can they write something that people will personally want to read nor do theycare to try outside of writing fanfic of coroporate intellectual property.
>Comics as a medium will survive
That's like stating "books will survive".
I'm not sure that's reassuring to DC fanboys tho.
I mean NA Comics will survive and maybe thrive without DC hiring professional PR hit people to destroy indies.
And let's be honest.
What DC fanboys?
They have fans of the now completely ruined characters. You don't have fans of the medium, DC universe, writing, artists, or comics overall.
There is like....WB Batman and Superman, and McDuffie ran DCAU Static Shock Teen Titans and BTBATB as the only good DC anything left.
Hell they JUST got rid of TTGo and that was litterall the only thing DC adjacent that the target demo and future DC fans knew of and were exposed to.
What else do they have?
DC will not survive if it is spun out on it's own. And any company that buys them will start firing motherfrickers left and right as soon as the ink is dry.
This is why I said that the old image guys and still living respected comic book creatives and comic book shop owners should have a state of the comic book address and start discussing things.
Cause...the ride is over children.
When I say "the whole ship", I mean the entire Warners media empire, not "all comic books".
Impending half-off fire sale of the company impending.
>the big 2.5.
Who's the .5?
I'm assuming it's image.
I think Image has more top selling comics than DC right now honestly.
Not quite yet, but they're embarrassingly close for DC. Image is now only like 20% behind DC when they used to be a in a totally different league.
Emergon Universe is such a hit (at least by modern comic standards) and I think people are liking Ghost Machine's books too, even if they don't have the same broad appeal. They've got a lot coming out now that I'm really loving. In particular what Ghost Machine is doing has me more excited than anything in comics in a long time, and I can't wait to check out their upcoming titles.
I actually really like DC now too. And to be honest I don't know what they're doing so wrong, because I don't think their line is noticeably weaker than Marvel.
>honest I don't know what they're doing so wrong,
their bat books are fricking trash? pretty obvious.
At one time, Spawn was the top selling comic in America.
Which were the twelve DC had in the top 75?
Turns out selling a classic studio to honey booboo carnies is not ideal.
>didio gets fired
>company immediately dies and 99% of their publications become unreadable slop
They knew death was on its way which was why he was absolutely determined to make 5G happen at any cost. But his "cure" was so much worse than the disease that they finally fired him.
He was the hero we needed, but not the one we deserved.
Which what I don’t get.
Why aren’t the wild frickers retiring and living easy or traveling the world?
Why the frick are they working well into their 90s?
Don’t they know being a billionaire means you shouldn’t have to work any more, especially when you’re a senior citizen.
they're more interested in being in control, and getting more control, than actually enjoying their ill-gotten gains. The money is just a side effect, more like a score counter, than the actual end goal.
except Gabe Newell, he's just living out his fantasy of being a fleet commander
>except Gabe Newell, he's just living out his fantasy of being a fleet commander
>t. plays no valve games
I REALLY doubt Gabe is involved in the day-to-day operations of specific Valve games
>Why the frick are they working well into their 90s?
Being a pro artist was financially underwhelming 50 years ago and it still is now. Even more so with AI and Bidenomics.
Didio needed to be fired 15 years earlier.
if the big two ''died'' tomorrow, what changes? it just going to get bought up by some other company with who will probably make more shitty comics.
Amazon will buy DC
>Catwoman is irredeemable shit.
Okay, fanboy
>fanboy
This is why DC Comics will die and no one will mourn them.
1.If you can't tell the basics correctly then you can' do shit. You're thinking in terms of cheap story twists and deconstructions and surpirses. No. Just tell a good human story. Look to the news and take characters and tell a human story.
2.You can just...stop. You don't have to publish a comic with certain characters every month and every year.
You can just stop till you get a good story to tell.
3.The fact that YOU are bored with or can't tell a story about Superman flying to the other side of the moon to fight robot alien world conquerors that Lex Luthor lured to the planet doesn't mean that the audience won't be.
Sometimes...people just want to read basic comfort food stories starring the character we like. And new readers need somethng basic and simple to get into everything with.
How would you save DC, Cinemaphile?
fire literally every writer
ask fans for pitches
hire like 10 of the best ones
probably also be a good idea to ask for a draft of a first issue script
>ask fans for pitches
lmao
it literally cannot be worse than what we've gotten for the past almost-a-decade
Looking at Cinemaphile... nah, you morons have worse ideas.
that's why you only take the best pitches instead of just everything from everyone
but anyone who has been professionally credited with writing any comic for the past let's say 20 years is automatically rejected
The best pitches are still shit from people that can't write.
then you teach them how to write
if an actual moron like Dan Slott can have a successful comics career, anyone can
Just start selling official porn books of Wonder Woman zatana and power girl
Go back in time and kill Bendis
IDW is a small lean comic brand that has a thriving niche that is backed by merch sales with the comic being an open and respected portion of their marketing branch.
DC is not that lucky.
>Corrupt video games and all internet entertainment itself. That's where the audience is at.
You poor innocent sweet soul...
They did it years ago.
The internet is gone.
Poof.
There's nothing there that you or I can get too anymore.
Video games? Oh wow.
I mean, look on Cinemaphile itself. Look closely.
Anon, tey have so much clout and power that money means absolutely fricking nothing.
They can easily throw tens of millions of monopoly money/credit at any thing they want and not even feel it.
Amazon doesn't give a frick about DC, it will acquire it when it buys the entire WB media empire.
what's with all the deleted posts
None of these companies can “die” because their parent companies will always be bought out by a bigger fish
That and their owners would never actually let them go out of business for PR reasons. "Marvel to stop publishing comics" is a bad headline that might affect movie or merch sales so Disney will always keep the publishing arm lurching along no matter how badly it's doing.
But no one cares about comics. And they won't ever stop prnting the trades that sell, they'll just stop making new comics.
As long is the comics are profitable and not losing money, I'm sure Marvel doesn't care. The problem is that since business doesn't really matter much, they have no incentive to take risks and try new things to get more readers. And the smaller companies aren't in a financial decision to do it themselves.
>But no one cares about comics.
No one reads comics as a business but they still have PR value. It's why every few years some comic story breaks into mainstream news (remember "CAP'S A NAZI NOW?!?") and causes a headache for their owners. The comics actually not being published would be one of those headaches so the parent companies would never let it happen. They don't want "No More Spider-Man?!?" headlines.
>being clickbait
>value
Pick one
Those headlines will be relevant for all of a few days and then people will go back to caring about the existence of comics they don't read just as much as they've always cared.
Yeah but that doesn’t work for DC anymore.
m’s arm is cut off.
Who cares. We all know he’ll get a new one.
and Superman are working together.
Who cares. We all know eventually they’ll be enemies again.
The only lasting repercussions are ironically when they turn a character queer.
Mainstream? Is this a joke. I had no idea any of this shit existed until I started clicking on Cinemaphile.
DC will just start publishing manga and become number 1 again. Like Dark Horse in the 90's
Why does DC sell SO much less than Marvel? You can't say it's the quality of the comics because that's not it. And DC has some really good ones going now.
Most of what DC's publishing right now is flat-out not interesting.
I just don't think the average DC comic is worse than the average Marvel comic right now. I think DC is a little better, at least to my taste.
Same with Marvel though.
Marvel is “cooler”. It’s largely a case of perception dictating what’s selling.
Public perception plays a big role. Comics don't sell more in general because so many people think they're lame.
That's very true. But I hold out hope. If wrestling can go through a resurgence, so can comics. All it took was a change in leadership in WWE. Compare how empty their arenas were in 2019, and how unsatisfied fans were, to how happy everyone is with the product now, and they're selling out arenas all over. There's a not insignificant number of people who have only just recently started watching wrestling, and that will only increase next year when Raw goes to Netflix.
All it takes is for someone with a vision and a plan. It could happen for comics.
Storywise DC books are fundamentally broken at a narrative level. They the image of not mattering because there's no continuity backing it. Spider-Man is an awful book but has 60 years of history backing it. You know as a reader every thing that happened has happened and the retcons don't invalidate previous stories just changes the details. In DC you can't tell what the characters history was because everything is always changing. Was Power Girl ever a member of the JSA? Did New 52 Teen Titans ever happened? and it goes on and on.
Product wise they lost all their good talent to Independent comics and Marvel. The best thing Jim Lee can do for DC is pick up a pencil and start drawing a comic for them.
Business wise their variant program is too good for retailers and readers. For the basic variants are offered at a 1:1 ratio the stores just have to order them. The numbers only go up for their cardstock covers which aren't popular where Marvel juiced their numbers by making retailers buy multiple copies to get the variants
DC's method is good for collectiors bad for them.
I do agree that the lack of continuity did initially turn me off from getting into DC. I do like knowing that all the old Marvel comics are still canon. But I picked up a lot of DC books when they all got new #1s during Dawn of DC, and I'd say on the whole I like them more than Marvel.
I hate variant covers though, especially ones that cost an extra dollar, and I always got so upset when the guy at my shop would slip a card stock variant cover of a book I'm buying into my box.
The idea that all those stories from the 60s, 70s, 80s, and so on happened and time is compressed down into just 13 years is silly. The new Ultimate Universe being a brand new history isn't stopping Hickman's Spider-Man from selling huge numbers just as it didn't stop the old Ultimate Universe from topping the charts until they dropped the ball with Loeb.
I think at this point people really aren't opposed to the idea of reboots. But Ultimate is a total start from fresh reboot, whereas DC always wants to have it both ways.
USM is carried by dissatisfied ASM readers and UXM is carried by Momoko the hottest artist going today. Remove Peach and fix ASM and those numbers will drop like a stone. We'll know how much staying power the new Ultimate Universe really have once Marvel puts some jabronis on the books for fill in issues or there's a delay in the books to not interrupt the runs.
>remove the things people like about a comic, and they won't like the comic anymore!
whoa dude you really cracked the case on that one
For some reason UXM, and specifically Peach Momoko's work, make the aging X-autists lose their minds. The fact that it's doing so well makes it worse.
I see outrage channels on YouTube complaining for years that all Marvel comics feel the same. Then they come out with a radically different take on X-Men and now they complain that it doesn't feel enough like X-Men. I've also seen people complain that Ultimate Spider-Man is too talky, when the characterization is the strength of that book. Some people are just never going to be happy. If the old comics they love were published today they'd probably say they suck.
They're not good comics, broseph.
Sure thing, midwit
Eat that slop, piggies.
Now grandpa, the doctor said being mad is bad for your heart.
If I'm a grandpa, you're a diaper wearing toddler.
But you're the one throwing a tantrum
Okay grandpa, time for bed. I put some Claremont trades on the night stand to calm you down.
they're kind of right that it doesn't feel like X-Men, but that's ultimately a good thing because X-Men has been absolute dogshit for like 15 years now
I don't get it. They absolutely hate all X-Men comics, so they come out with one that's completely different, and they can't accept that either. I've seen a few criticisms of the actual book itself, but for the most part I've only seen people who don't like it because it's not like the 90's cartoon.
>I've only seen people who don't like it because it's not like the 90's cartoon.
That's basically it. It's just a small group of aging autists bogged down by nostalgia. What they really want is THEIR X-MEN which is some mental ideal of what the X-Men were when they read them as kids/teens, be that Claremont or Morrison or whatever. But you can never have that again so they eternally b***h about everything new. You'd think they'd just stop reading stuff that makes them mad but they can't because being mad is all they have left. You'll see them make criticisms of everything new, but if you press them they are unable to articulate what they actually want because what they want is a fantasy.
I find it really hard to find YouTube channels about comics I like. They either hate everything, or they want to pretend that the comic industry is doing really great. There's almost nobody just normal.
What’s “normal”?
Not him, but i have the same complaint. Normal would in my view refer to regular nerds making videos about their interest without trying to sell anything or hype up their channel with bullshit tactics.
Finding genuine stuff is hard, because every gay is trying to become a full time eCeleb. That's why they're either far too "happy" about new shit to hype it up, or overly critical to get the negativity bias views.
There used to be a lot of channels with nerds just talking about their hobby, now they're all a front for milking lonely morons who long to hear their opinions reflected.
The youtube algorithm discourages an actual community and honest discussion.
Any honest discussion or honest channels are almost always sabotaged through delisting, taking and removing subscriptions, hiding the channel, lying about view numbers(a tactic they use non-stop I can tell you stories) and just genuinely destroy organic real community because they can't control narratives at the behest of people with fat bank accounts and clout.
Look at reddit. It's a fricking propoganda weapon and narrative manipulation tool.
The only way to have open honest discussion without on the take mods and manipulation are forums and google is in full censorship mode and directs people to ta handful of controlled major content creators now.
You can't even use boolean searches anymore to remove things or control what they put in front of you.
Yes, i'm well aware. Freedom is an illusion that's only possible as long as you fall in line with the powers that be.
It got so much worse in the last 10 years, imagine how bad it'll be in another decade.
>I've also seen people complain that Ultimate Spider-Man is too talky, when the characterization is the strength of that book
You can have good characterization without scenes of people literally sitting in a room talking. A superhero comic should basically never have a scene with people sitting in a room talking. If they have to talk, have them do something visually exciting while they talk.
It's another symptom of writing comics as TV show pitches. A TV show needs cheap and easy scenes to film, ergo a lot of sitting around and talking; it's a cost-saving measure. But in a comic, a scene with people sitting and talking and a scene with 10 trillion gods exploding 500 universes cost the exact same amount to draw, so why do the former ever? No one wants to see it.
That is a ridiculous opinion. To say that a comic about a superhero should never have scenes of people talking. Stories can be driven through visuals and through dialogue, and you have both tools in your toolkit, and Hickman is doing an excellent job using both. It's probably my favorite comic right now.
>Hickman is doing an excellent job
A statement that has never been true.
It's not X-Men. That's why they don't like it.
It's just a generic shoujo horror manga
That's why I do like it.
I don't think this is true. USM is a really good book that's a cool and different take on Spider-Man. People would be into it even if Amazing was great.
>The new Ultimate Universe being a brand new history
It's not. It's explicitly a direct continuation of the old one.
All of their problems can be blamed on the manipulations of one guy from 1610 but 6160 is a brand new universe.
A new universe but not a new history, which is what I was responding to. This new Ultimate line is explicitly part of the existing continuity, it's not a blank-slate like the old one originally was.
but it is an entirely new history. The Maker explicitly made it so.
It's CONNECTED to previous events because of the Maker, but the actual history of the universe is new.
This comment makes me genuinely worried that you can't tell the difference between the real world and fiction.
I genuinely do not care.
You should seek some help then if you really can't understand that "in this fictional world this is a new history" is not the same as "in the real world they're taking a different approach to this new Ultimate line and it's conceived as being part of existing Marvel continuity". The new Ultimate universe is an extension of existing continuity and the set-up means it's inevitably going to build to a conflict with the Maker that more and more will connect with existing Marvel elements.
To echo this anon
the idea of so much crap being canon is not a good thing and I don't understand why I'm supposed to be happy these stories that came out before I was born are now still canon, especially since, like, historically one of the most celebrated cape comics of all time is not main continuity (DKR). But hey, reseting the universes every 15-20 years for new generations is bad because then you'd get endings to the stories and manga shows what a terrible idea that is.
I think the reason I'm loving Geiger and Redcoat so much is that they clearly know where they're going with this universe and they have an end-goal in mind already. It is a complicated thing, telling satisfying stories when you can't actually have a definitive ending. I don't know, it's hard. I mean you can't have Spider-Man die of old age. Eventually they'll have to do something.
They killed vertigo.
Their only really solid adult line filled with their best writers and they butchered it so they can have more shitty square jawed heroes .
And Constantine has been flanderized.
You're confusing young bloods with nep babies, members of the whisper network, and whoever the boomer fricks are porking this week.
The real youngbloods left a long time ago and are into other media.
Hell the men and women who can sell and make profit make more money on social media and the female writers wiht actual talent and skill when they aren't suckered intto the gay agenda by bots and queers with huge online armies are able to put out good work..
>The real youngbloods left a long time ago and are into other media.
Who are these youngbloods you speak of, anon? Live action series have been just as dreadful for the past couple of years.
>Live action series
I said social media. That doesn't mean mainstream garbage.
It's filled with the same "youngblood" nep babies and perverts and house slaves to the wealthy that are running everything into the ground right now.
Do you need me to ask you 8 times before you answer? Who are these youngbloods?
The majority of Vertigo books sold jack. A handful became huge hits. And Image getting its shit together is what ultimately killed the Vertigo label because DC simply couldn't compete with the deal they give creators. Marvel's Icon imprint died too for similar reasons.
Image and Vertigo do not offer the same style of comics or anywhere close the same quality. Also, Vertigo sold well in other countries outside the US, in some countries it sold better than all the other DC and Marvel comics combined.
The style is simply "whatever the creators feel like doing." It's not the 90s or the 00s anymore, styles change.
>"whatever the creators think they can sell the rights for an adaptation"
Fixed.
Plenty of that, but look at Saucer Country, one of the last Vertigo books. A few years later Cornell took it to IDW as Sauce State, it didn't become a radically different book because he switched publishers.
Then there are the books from the short-lived Vertigo revival from 2018. Border Town, Goddess Mode, Hex Wives, High Level looked and felt like Image books because these are the types of stories that edgy people making off-beat comics want to make now.
That's just reinforcing my previous point about them not offering the same kind of comics.
If there was anyone out there that wanted to make 90s/00s Vertigo style comics, they would be out there. Karen Berger wasn't dictating what kind of books people were making, she was curating talent that made the kind of books that fit the line. She took that talent scouting operation to Dark Horse, but I get the feeling the Berger Books collection doesn't impress you since you're complaining that Vertigo is dead.
Okay... so you agree with me. Took you long enough.
And Berger Books is dead.
Death Strikes: The Emperor of Atlantis was published in January, Carmilla Volume 2 is schedule for next month, and Backflash in November.
The whole Vertigo business model was apparently that they'd take a loss on a lot of those books because occasionally something would blow up and be the next Watchmen or Sandman and that happening every once in a while would justify the whole line. But nothing else every really blew up on that kind of level, so it's a division of the company that was likely to face the axe if the corporate bean-counters started paying attention to DC.
THE ENTIRE DAMNED COMPANY LINE MAKES NO MONEY FOR THE MOST PART!
Vertigo was a prestige line and should have been treated as the place to occasionally dump good no-holds barred stories one shots experimental wierd shit in a thick book ala heavy metal.
That was their chance. I would easily pay 10 bucks a month for a thick monthly volume of vertigo comics.
Common sense thread.
Comics are fricked and listening to the PR tards on reddit and the paid journalists who lie to your face about it then shit on indies is not helping anyone.
Anon, be honest with yourself.
Who wants to read the demoralizing morally bankrupt adventures of "heroes" who can make the world stand up and do a back flip who fail to help people?
It's cynical and delusional nonsense and if they can't give people fantastic adventures and an escape from reality then what fricking good are they?
Stuff like the shadow, doc steel, conan were honest and took pride in what they were.
Now we have navel gazing imbeciles all siting in a room huffing their own farts nad creating unreadable soul poison and desperately and pathetically trying to leave their mark so they can HOPEFULLY get some munney
1. They killed Vertigo
2. I'm pretty sure a significant number of DC readers from the last decade or so(such as myself) just stopped reading after Death Metal when they decided to go all in on the "everything thing is canon" approach which was really just an excuse to have the bare minimum possible amount of editorial work. It's hard to get invested in the books when nothing matters/has consequence in the long run. There is literally no reason to read floppies unless you like the team currently working on them.
>It's hard to get invested in the books when nothing matters/has consequence in the long run
Then why do I feel the same way about Marvel? Dumbass, that was always true for capeshit.
Marvel also got rid of their editors. The editors who remain are either stretched way too thin or don't even bother to do their jobs anymore.
Marvel doesn't have editors.
It has disney's ESG lawyers who help push bullshit.
They are just ornamental figure heads who are put there to make money and make sure they put out product.
They do have a few editors
But they work on the stuff they know will make money and keep them in the good graces of the dwindling comic world.
It's over friends.
It's time to give it up
Just find indie stuff.
I'm going back to reading the shadow and doc savage stuff. I have the entire run of astro city and it's just a total love letter to comics.
I'm reading web comics and after wading through the same 5 types of comics I occasioonall find good stuff.
The sequential medium in america is basically dead and the worse it gets the more people realize that the cape ghetto is not the place to be and is ultimately a morally bankrupt corporate tool of control rather then fun adventures and morality tales for children and adults who need to be reminded of what is good and what is bad.
It's just a lot of bad shit now.
Even now, there are children READING horror, action, comedy, COMICS online while we have grown goddamned men and women making lazy creepy fanfiction for seemingly each other and a non-existant fanbase.
What was the last comic written in the last 10 years that any of you ANY of you would be proud to take your family friends or just your children to see at a theatre or suggest to read to them.
It just seems like NA comcis is a deeply incestuous orgy of failure.
Yes for the most part. They went from being the guys that the little guys go to hoping to make their mark to just marvel and dc again.
The only ones under the image brand I think could start their own comic line and make it is probably macfarlane and maybe jim lee if he grew a pair.
>It's hard to get invested in the books when nothing matters/has consequence in the long run
God forbid you just enjoy a good story.
Their characters are just flat out not interesting enough for the current zeitgeist. The world is getting more violent, more polarized, more and more and so on and so forth. The DC characters are still stuck in the 30s. They run around with domino masks and their undies on the outside, while having the
>aww shucks
demeanor of the 50s, tacked on with false "woke" lingo and pretense. It's a contradiction that makes them come off as pathetic. Then you add that every big name has a "Super Family" and it's an endless charade of clones of all United Colours Of Benneton running around doing nothing but punching bad guys of the month. It's flat out not interesting and inherently divorced from anything the average reader is going through.
Now look at Marvel. X-Men went through yet another Fascist Ethnostate phase. Sure it's left-coded, but even the right winger can see himself in it and self-insert. Ultimates is about taking on the Not!Illuminati who run the world. The left-winger sees
>evil huwhite capitalist pigs
and cheers for the revolutionaries to take them on. The right winger sees
>israelited globohomosexual
and cheers for the based revolutionaries to take them down. Both are satisfied. The characters kill and are essentially in a war no matter the books you read. There's an edge to it that caters to the sentiments of the average person, while not being edgy and schlocky. Take this week's Iron Man. There was this basically Chinese Musk type that was turned into yet another
>muh muties
type and unleashed the MegaGigaUltra Sentinels while stealing Stark's tech and company. Batman or Superman or whoever would've just put him in handcuffs and surrendered him to the police. Tony buried him alive and went to have dinner with Emma Frost.
There's a fundamental difference between DC and Marvel and that means DC is out of the race in the current climate. Capeschlock doesn't sell, but capeschlock with a slight twist and better marketing, does better and stays afloat.
marvel is just as shit. actually, they're worse. at least DC has Superman and Green Lantern as good books right now.
>at least DC has Superman and Green Lantern as good books right now.
Superman has a gay son and Green Lantern hasn’t been hood since the Tomasi/Johnsera.
Morrison's run through Black Stars was good.
Not as good as Geoff Lanterns.
Not as good, better.
you can always spot a Marvel Only
this is what happens when you make your only comics and movies based on one character and his family.
people get bored.
granddad having an alzheimer's episode, sad sad
homie neither of them are selling for shit. Turns out trying to pander to people who don't read comics at the cost of people who do wasn't a winning business strategy. If they weren't both being subsidized by the existence of their film franchises, both companies would have been dead 10+ years ago. Neither has made a profit, even with the benefits of the larger company ownership, in longer than you've been alive.
That's not even true. Marvel and DC's publishing divisions make money. Not tons of money, but they're in the black. That's why Disney and Warner Brothers don't mind keeping them around.
The value in DC has been in their IPs for decades. It became an open secret since WB acquired them that their sales didn't matter because they were going to make their money in the merchandising and the film/cartoon versions.
Yeah but the comics still do make a little money. It's the least important part of the company, but if it lost money they wouldn't keep doing it.
The Bat bucks make it worth it alone. Although Superman only has 10 years before hitting the public domain (the golden age first appearance version, anyways.)
Yeah, publishing is not that difficult to make a profit from; the problem is just that there's less infrastructure for marketing and distribution than there was 30 years ago. We need a Steam for ebooks and a healthy literature marketing machine, and the solution isn't Amazon.
Source? Without creative accounting benefiting from all the shit Disney can do for Marvel for "free", and licensing revenue, I find that hard to believe.
>Turns out trying to pander to people who don't read comics at the cost of people who do wasn't a winning business strategy.
The problem is that to have an ongoing business you need to attract new readers and not just maintain the shrinking, aging existing reader base. So you do in fact have to "pander" to non-readers because you do actually need to convert some of them into readers. Comics forgot how to do this many decades ago and have been flailing around trying and failing since while the current readership gets more autistic by the day.
Know what brings in new readers? Reliable, quality content. Not alphabet pandering, not one-off events, not constant talent and SKU changes, just reliable, high quality content.
But people are lazy, and think "if I can get a whole new group fast by pandering, I can skip that hard part". And now they're going broke.
i
>Reliable, quality content.
NTA, even with reliable, quality content, comics are going no where. Too much baggage: cultural baggage, creative baggage, industry baggage, distributors... where they are sold.. the list goes on and on. As a medium people just don't care. People would rather play video games or watch Youtube. I sometimes pick up a decent comic or two off the rack (never from the big two) and know that no one will read them. Pandering and the cronyism that wrecked the industry was just cutting off life support from an already dead industry.
I disagree, but we'll never know because they haven't produced reliable, quality content in a long time.
If you could go and pick up the latest Iron Man or Spider-Man and know what you're getting, people would do that more than they are now. Look at manga, that's literally what they do: give exactly what you expect, every week, for the length of the run. They don't stop a cyberpunk story after five issues to run an art deco style coming of age story, followed by minimalist space opera, followed by...
They love turning over writers and especially artists. And when they don't, you got 10 years at Dan Slott
This is modern business all over:
>Modern business has dysfunctional practices.
>High staff turnover because of it.
>They end up spending loads on recruitment, training and don't invest in good employees.
>Good people leave because they know they have value.
>Passive types, the dregs, the quiet quitters, they stay because they put up with the dysfunction (and cause a lot of it).
>Eventually middle management becomes full of these people as they are the last ones standing in terms of promotion.
Anyone who stays at a dysfunctional business for a long time is obviously shit.
>I disagree
Comics died as an American pastime in the 90s crash just as video games were rising or the best manga/anime was being imported. Print media is dying. Distribution is still in the hands of the few going to specialist shops. Online comics are still all over the place. Manga has none of the baggage that the comics industry has. Comics are, to put it bluntly, not cool. As much as people rag on weebs, decent anime is a good pipeline too. Manga has a bunch of things comics simple do not. Like I said, I see decent comics, they do still exist, but getting people to read them is a hard as frick sell because people don't care.
>I loved
Sure, you do. But masses of people simply don't. The culture of kids going to a rack and buying comics doesn't exist, not just because of quality but because they get their entertainment from everywhere else. Do you think a quality Spider-Man ongoing will make millions of kids get off Tiktok and run to their LCS to buy a copy? It wouldn't happen.
Kids still read comics and stories.
99% of their time they just sit there and read and read dumb drama and complete nonsense.
The problem is that comics are completely cut off from reality.
SPiderman isn't cool. Not to kids.
Espescially when the adults and teens who know of the characters see what is being put forth in the IP
Who in the shit in marvel/sony said spidergwen was a good idea and that she shouldn't be replaced by ariana?
I'm confused by your post not making much sense?
>Kids still read comics and stories.
Some maybe read manga or kiddy book market comics.
>99% of their time they just sit there and read and read dumb drama and complete nonsense.
Literally my point because kids would rather watch youtube, twitch, tiktok and see dumb drama.
>The problem is that comics are completely cut off from reality.
Indeed.
>SPiderman isn't cool. Not to kids.
Spider-Man is cool as a brand. Hence why it still can sell in video games or movies.
>Espescially when the adults and teens who know of the characters see what is being put forth in the IP
I mean people just care far more about movies than they do the comics. The last Spider-Man movie was post-Endgame and still made $1.9 billion.
>Who in the shit in marvel/sony said spidergwen was a good idea and that she shouldn't be replaced by ariana?
No one gives a frick about Spider-Gwen anyway.
Look at Ultimate Spider-Man by Hickman. Spider-Man is actually with MJ and has a family. It has done decent numbers sales wise and the early issues even had multiple print runs. Had a bit of buzz around it because it is safe from the main series Paul cuckery stuff. Has Hickman's Ultimate Spider-Man changed anything? Nah, it has just done alright-ish numbers for a series with speculators appearing to resell issues, but that is it. Comics exist in a small bubble regardless. Even things people are enjoying won't ever do the kind of figures a comic in the past would.
On your last point, comic books are ice cold like you said. It's going to take a lot more than just a good run to turn it around, it has to be consistently really good for consistently a long time before people come back. It can be done, it's just a hard and long process.
I mean I went over this in another post. Even consistently good runs can't increase the size of the pond unless a bunch of other stuff changes in the industry too. And changing that stuff feels practically impossible.
>They read them on their phones and youtube and social media and the web.
>That's where comics have gone too.
I mean this is just going into my point too. Kids don't really care about comics, not the kinds of comics people want to do well.
>Because the NA comic industry is shit.
Literally what I am saying, anon.
>He's recognizable as a brand not popular.
Depends how you are defining "popular" because like I said, his last video game and movie sold well.
>Because as it stands. It's already dead.
Literally what I said a couple posts ago. Comics died and were on life support. There is far too much stuff they need to do to change this.
>>Kids still read comics and stories.
>Some maybe read manga or kiddy book market comics.
They read them on their phones and youtube and social media and the web.
That's where comics have gone too.
>>99% of their time they just sit there and read and read dumb drama and complete nonsense.
>Literally my point because kids would rather watch youtube, twitch, tiktok and see dumb drama.
Because the NA comic industry is shit. It's expensive art is mid at best and you have to HUNT for it. I'm not even touching on the content.
>>The problem is that comics are completely cut off from reality.
>Indeed.
>Spider-Man is cool as a brand. Hence why it still can sell in video games or movies.
He's recognizable as a brand not popular.
What the character represents overall is liked not the character himself.
>I mean people just care far more about movies than they do the comics. The last Spider-Man movie was post-Endgame and still made $1.9 billion.
Gonna be honest with you. These 1 billion dollar numbers these movies are making? Their fricky. Their odd.
>No one gives a frick about Spider-Gwen anyway.
That's the problem. No one gives a frick about the character beyond the costume and any girl can wear it. So why a barely legal "alt" version of spiderman's ex-girlfriend?
>Look at Ultimate Spider-Man by Hickman. Spider-Man is actually with MJ and has a family. It has done decent numbers sales wise and the early issues even had multiple print runs. Had a bit of buzz around it because it is safe from the main series Paul cuckery stuff. Has Hickman's Ultimate Spider-Man changed anything? Nah, it has just done alright-ish numbers for a series with speculators appearing to resell issues, but that is it. Comics exist in a small bubble regardless. Even things people are enjoying won't ever do the kind of figures a comic in the past would.
You're right about it being in a bubble. But this is the kind of wholesome stuff the comic industry, the small incestuous closed off comic industry, needs as comfort food to keep care in the industry going.
This can help bring in interest and be tat thing that they show to normies and new potential readers.
Not the sporck and billion and one spider people and selling unborn daughters soul to satan shit
The only way out is to start over in a new universe and have a real sit down across t he industry and start thinking about the future of the comic industry or if there is one.
Because as it stands. It's already dead.
I remember an anon who worked at a library talking about how when kids got a little older they'd switch to mangs because it would appeal to them more, because so many graphic novels would be lame and safe and not cool.
Makes sense. Manga's more likely to show breasts and gore. It's not like comics can't do it, but they more often choose not to.
Kids don't read MARVEL and DC comics
This is true.
Gen Alpha’s definitely don’t.
But print media is dead anyway.
>Look at manga, that's literally what they do: give exactly what you expect
Then why manga fans rage all the time about stupid shit or how the ending sucks?
Yeah sorry.
I loved picking up a new comic from the rack at my local grocery store and seeing these new worlds and characters and learning something.
Now it's just people having an incestuous orgy in a room and creeps pushing propoganda.
The truth is that people want complete series that they believe will have an ending and sit in the hands of their purification creator for their entire run. More normies care about Invincible than Superman because Invincible is a complete story and a semi faithful adaptation.
My Adventures with Superman got renewed for a third season recently.
Yeah but that doesn’t correspond to comic sales because it’s not an accurate retelling of a specific story. Do people like Superman? Yes. Enough to buy comics? No.
>The truth is that people want complete series that they believe will have an ending
No they fricking don’t. How is Law & Order popular then? Why is endless movies about James Bond popular when there is no end to it? Why are people entirely happy reading manga that keeps running for several decades? It’s okay because one day when you’re in your 60s it’s gonna end and reading it on an ongoing basis was finally justified? Talk about Olympic level mental gymnastics.
Law & Order isn't all that popular and James Bond gets rebooted every few years but you manchildren have a hissyfit when reboots are mentioned.
>Law & Order isn't all that popular
It’s only a 35 year old franchise that’s still going strong, has no real ending point outside of individual actors ever so often leaving the show but even then the show isn’t really about them, there’s two different multiple decades running series currently making new episodes and there’s also over half a dozen other spinoff series at this point with varying degrees of success but it’s totally not popular.
>James Bond gets rebooted every few years but you manchildren have a hissyfit when reboots are mentioned.
So there is no definitive story or endpoint and it’s still popular. So the draw is not any kind of a complete series with an end. Especially considering how much this website kept seething when they actually tried to give Craig’s specific take on the character a definitive end and arc.
The difference with Law and Order and other TV series and movie franchises is that the actors and characters age, some have kids, grow old, die, stay dead, get replaced by new actors/characters. Marvel and DC just don't do none of that. Hell Naruto is over and now there's his son Boruto doing pretty much the same thing but at least is something else.
DC are now doing compact editions (the book in the middle) paperback/manga (tankōbon) sized books that are far cheaper. I could honestly see main line titles disappearing and being replaced by such books for the book market rather than bother with comics. Ten bucks for a book as opposed to multiple floppies or a trade with barely any issues in it.
It would probably go as well as the Earth-1 line, since that was basically the same thing
I mean the compact line is meant to be, cheapily produced and accessible. Earth 1 was a series of graphic novels, not as easily accessible and not this kind of format. Some comics that primarily sell well in the book market do really well. Now DC will find a way of fricking it up, obviously, but maybe this format will stick?
The book format really only works well with obviously longer stories, so it would basically just be their backlog, right?
I mean currently they are printing the stories that already sell, All Star Superman, Batman Court of Owls, Watchmen etc. Popular stuff that they deem accessible. Just depends on what the feedback is from this stuff. If it sells well, could they expand it?
i fricking hate tankobon size because they don't let you appreciate the art.
I've seen the big 2 try such initiatives before and it never works.
The micro books aren't made to attract new readers. They're made to keep Watchmen in print in a cheaper form factor and continue to keep the IP rights away from Alan Moore.
DC will go back to the standard size for whatever they've got cooked up for the 40th anniversary edition in 2026. They're just creating demand for the product by releasing Watchmen in a shit format nobody wants for 2 years.
Pretty sleazy, but pretty smart
>The micro books aren't made to attract new readers.
It isn't only Watchmen being printed in that format, anon, they announced a whole line:
https://www.dc.com/blog/2023/11/02/dc-announces-dc-compact-comics
So when they say compact, are they also getting rid of panels and pages?
no they're just shrunk to Archie digest size
To be fair I picked up one of those in my LCS and was surprised at how well the art stood out still. None of the panels have been gotten rid of. It is complete and it isn't hard to read. In the UK those compact books cost like £8.99 and a normal TPB of Watchmen is near 2.5 times more expensive. People have wanted cheaper books for ages. A normal trade with 5 issues is more expensive too. It isn't how I would want to read a comic book but as a cheaper format, maybe it'll work.
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Take a look
>I could honestly see main line titles disappearing and being replaced by such books for the book market rather than bother with comics.
That’s because you’re a fricking moron who apparently doesn’t understand anything about how publishing works.
Neither do you, nor DC
holy grimola
DC is not dying, it's moving away from the system of shitty floppies this thing tracks
it's marvel the one that absolutely refuses to engage lateral growth.
yeah, DC isn't dying, it's dead
DC investing more into experimental Elseworlds is good
>DC investing more into experimental Elseworlds is good
No it's not, not when their main universe is a disaster area. DC should put all their effort into unfricking their main continuity and after that's done, they can mess around with out of continuity stuff again.
oh look it's another thread where 40 years old argue in circles thinking their childhood format and genre is still relevant
kek 90% of the homies here say it is dead and know it isn't relevant, learn 2 read
demoralization thread
What did you expect
Telling the truth = demoralization
Maybe they shouldn't have made everything lame and gay
The last 10 years of comics have been a disgrace, they deserve to fail.
Cinemaphile won.
it should be studied how hard DC fumbled this
people where genuinely hyped for a long time
How long did it take to finish Doomsday Clock?
It was a failure.
I remember being genuinely excited for Batman’s wedding. After that everything just seemed to get worse. I couldn’t be bothered to care anymore.
Every time I remember what happened, I just seethe uncontrollably. Who in their right mind thought it would be a good idea to spite the readership like that?
>what's that tim kong? You're writing a story with a fakeout wedding between batman and catwoman?
>sounds like we'd better market it as the greatest comic book wedding of all time!
Honestly, DC brought this all on themselves
You guys are fricking morons. It was unreadable garbage since issue 6.
If I haven’t read the run in years hut I remember liking the Gotham Girl arc,then Suicide Squad one with Bane was weak and I enjoyed the Button. I remember liking the double date with Superman. Everything else is a blur if I’m being honest. I vaguely remember there was Joker issue somewhere before the wedding and there was a 13 angry men arc.
anon, my issue isn't with the King run(even if I dislike it). It's with DC's moronic choice to market the wedding as if it was actually going to happen for real this time.
And my point is that you're a shipper moron with no taste and your opinion isn't worth shit.
WB and Disney will NEVER pull the plug. They DO NOT CARE that the comics lose money.
the King run is almost entirely bereft of badass or heroic Batman moments. Its entire reason to be is to prop up Catwoman, and does so in an artless stupid manner while actively shitting on the titular character. Tom King guaranteed has a humiliation fetish... or a subversion fetish
We need comics to beat manga.
Because manga will only cause the United States to be as sexless as Japan is now.
Japan has been feeding their girls hormonal birth control from the moment they start ovulating and hammering them into going to school and wasting valuable years being a corpoarate slave.
Their manga was an escape, but recently they've taken to pushing the b***hy "nice" grass eating gay ala deku as the hero leader what have you.
Essentially neutering the good men and feminism and normalized sexual assault and lesbianism among girls.
Both to keep them sexless, not reproducing, and broken till they get jobs where they miraculously turn into normal human beings.
WTF are you talking about? Japan has had massive scandals where schools have gone out of their way to prevent female students from getting in in exams and there’s still a massive societal and corporate expectation that women will just quit the moment they get married because their place is at home so they don’t get hired or promoted the way men do because it’s seen as pointless waste of time and resources.
That kind of sexist culture is exactly what has driven many women to opt out from dating pools entirely.
>That kind of sexist culture is exactly what has driven many women to opt out from dating pools entirely.
Liberated women are the death of modern societies anyway. They will put their nation below replacement rate and vote for collectivism and every bleeding heart propaganda message.
I don't even want to chain women to the kitchen 1950s style, it's just a problem that we don't have the nerve to solve.
It's only lasted this long in The West because we're obscenely rich and can outsource all our problems, for now at least.
All the stuff you said is true, and Japanese women still choose careers over family.
pic related, i want to eat her ass with a spoon.
Here’s an idea: maybe don’t treat women as just baby factories.
But that's the most important thing about them. They can make more humans. They are the only beings on Earth who can. If I was born of a class who could provide an essential service to the planet but I choose not to do it because I want to be more like the people who can't provide that service, I'm just a selfish butthole.
Human breeding isn’t essential for the planet. In fact we’ve done the opposite with exterminating several other species and creating increasingly more and more pollution that impacts every living being on the planet negatively.
Without humans or intelligent life on the planet. Planets will literally die by meterits or other threats like Tyranids or scavenger species. Animals are just biomass that can't repel threats.
Best post in the thread, thanks for the laugh bigbrain bro.
Why do you think the meteorites exists? It was a former planet. Or somthing like that dunno.
I see what you're trying to say, you just said it in the most "10 year old making ambitious statement"-type of way.
It's not a bad point, eventually the ecosystem would collapse, unless an intelligent species is able to predict and avert it.
If you can't produce children, won't produce children, and push a culture where abortion is seen as a rite of passage and blood sacrifice for their nebulous "future"then what good are they?
Anyway, we've already created the technology to produce artificial eggs and a viable synthetic womb so we can actually create baby factories.
WOrking in an iPHone factory as living infrastructure is not much better.
Why do Boomers and Gen-X'ers love to deny that forced labor is a thing that happens to women around the world?
It's the only thing the feminists have..
Remember feminims is about breaking up families, demonizing womanhood, demonizing child birth, lower populations by making the idea of haivng children into evil slavery and carrying children as parisitism and perversion and against their body autonomy and being eternal victims while lionizing and pushing predatory behavior of women. Oh and homosexulaity and transexualism is lauded as well as being a barren spinster with a good job.
It's to destroy and enslave women and lower human population.
That's litterally all it is.
Guys in Japan also don't wanna marry
Even a conservative extroverted Japanese guy sees it as a death to any kind of personal space , that's the point of view of at least half Japanese people under 30
70 years old homies controlling society is moronic because of generational differences like this
>Even a conservative extroverted Japanese guy sees it as a death to any kind of personal space
That makes even more sense when you remember how small apartments are getting in Japan. A young guy in his 20s that gets married would have to spend all his free time with a girlfriend nagging him to out and spend all the money he worked for.
To be fair, it's not like guys in here in the west wants to get married in their 20s unless they find a unicorn. It really is the death of personal freedom and social/financial life.
I heard Japan has a unique urbanisation problem, like even in America you can get a decent white collar job while building a home in the Rural land your dad bought, even easier with wfh becoming more common
In Japan you either live in their 10 biggest cities or you are a peasant
I'm not a burger but from talking to my friends there who are looking to move out of the city it's not that simple unless you get lucky to find a place worth living that happens to have the type of jobs you can get.
What you said is interesting though, if only i wasn't too stupid to learn another language i would consider moving to Japan to set up remote work offices. Seems like it would ripe for that kind of thing.
And then i could frick average jap qt3.14 peasants like pic related
Practically speaking, that's what they are. And if they do not at least hit replacement rate, then everything is fricked. In fact we have to be above replacement rate in order to meet growth expectations on markets. That's the whole reason for importing 3rd world "refugees", mo people = mo money. I'm sure that'll work out...
It wouldn't work, Japanese people would think you are fricking with them/scamming them
You don't understand how "conservative" minded people think, they legitimately do not want to hear stuff that questions status quos they had slammed on them since youth
I don't think it would be hard to find a jobless guy and talk him into 14 day trial period of work. Especially with upfront pay.
Haha it's not like i'll just hire broke peasant women exclusively anyway!
Also they'll never know i'm a gaijin, i'll Ken-samamaxx.
Then they should see the studies that show they’ll become extinct unless they do like other countries.
You mean like The West? Maybe a quick extinction is better than a drawn out humiliation and complete debasement of your people.
>trust the science bro
>No you need to flood your cities with Muslims to survive bro trust us
Interracial dating and breeding would stop the population decline.
It would only further decline the population of the host people, and burden them with brown parasites.
Nah. Population would increase.
Japan is just too conservative to try it.
And from the looks of the upcoming younger generations, don’t expect a sexual revolution.
By 2080, kids Japanese people goodbye.
>Nah. Population would increase.
You completely ignored my point. I take it you're used to ignore the harsh reality of the situation if you're arguing this kind of thing in the first place.
I hope a pack of feral engineers, doctors, and lawyers rape and kill you.
The harsh reality is that they are dying out without foreigners moving in.
Yes, a reality they will never face because mass immigration is presented to them as an easy solution to the problem, "they do the jobs we don't want!".
It's bandaid on a gunshot wound, it's only going to allow the situation to worsen. You don't save Japanese people by dumping millions of brown foreigners with double digit IQ on their shores.
Japan is literally offering easier immigration to foreigners by offering cheap deals on houses in attempt to populate their shrinking rural areas. As well as loosening immigration in general. Their “pretend we don’t have a problem or robots will fix it” has been a disaster for them. To a degree they’re forced to hire 80-90 year olds to do all kinds of odd jobs in order to keep the economy and businesses lacking employees running.
He’ll, having immigrant workers by babies, to allow Japanese women and wives to continue to be in the workplace would have solve sexless problem of the current generation.
China uses Filipino nanny’s and maids all the time and their population stays healthy with more and more females entering the workplace.
>China's population stays healthy
It's far from healthy, they're facing an extreme aging and demographic crisis due to the lack of women.
The median age is almost 40.
Immigrants are not Japanese, therefore they do not contribute to the demographic.
Simply increasing the number of citizens will not work if you use dumb brown people, they will only become a burden.
Japanese people are not a market, they're a racial and cultural identity that cannot be replaced with foreigners.
They should suffer the consequences of a declining economy in order to motivate a restructure of their society so they can repopulate their nation instead of relying on globohomosexual to dilute and destroy them.
You fricking israelite.
The problem is that with the VAXXX many japanese have become sterilized and the problem is so severe that the Japanese government threw a fricking fit and are loudly not only apologizing to citizens but lambasting the west for it as well.
No one talks about it
But it's happening
China saw a major collapse of their population growth the year they started rolling out the VAXXX
No it won't.
We were all fricking and poppuing small litters of children even if we had to live in shoe boxes and crowd together in hastily built generational homes on a half acre of land.
I think he’s talking about moreso the immigrant men wikk have sex with
Japanese women to breed. And /or maybe the immigrant women will breed with Japanese men, thus increasing the population.
No.
Population would increase. Sex would increase.
see
and then get a rope and finish your transition.
No. The anon’s right.
Sex would increase amongst the younger generation preventing population decline
Well yeah, it tends to increase when the immigrants commit so much rape.
No one is disputing that you pilpul spewing disengenous homosexual. Gas yourself.
>like even in America you can get a decent white collar job while building a home in the Rural land your dad bought, even easier with wfh becoming more common
who the frick told you that? Anywhere outside a major city America is third world tier. I grew up in the south and only jobs in most communities is Wal-Mart and most places don't have doctors within an hour or more of travel. The vast majority of places don't even have municipal water there. Hell, my parents didn't even get internet until I left for college because no company would run it through rural areas.
You genuinely don't understand how bad it is in America. It would be a goddamn blessing to those people if they did what China did and forced the rurals to move to cities, because their lives are literally living hells there.
Were not talking about the redneck boonies, anon
>building a home
In 2024? Are you crazy?
It's still a thing if you don't live in a major city
No it isn't, pal.
I literally built a house for 100k dollars in a village last year
>That kind of sexist culture
Has produced many many great women mangaka, novelists and film directors. Meanwhile in murrica where women are liberated they can't write for shit.
De-age and de-gay Jon you fricks.
Also bring back Alfred.
DC rep here.
Now need a queer icon. Clark and Kara are too well known. So we chose Jon. Besides, if he wasn’t queer, he just be a photo copy of his dad.
If we tried other ways to distinguish Jon, he’d just be what Conner is already.
De-Age him? No. We have to have him older. And more independent or else it hinders our Clark stories and Lois stories we want to tell. Sorry.
No about Alfred. You ungrateful yahoos have botched and loaned for years about Bruce not getting character development. So we killed off the last of his paternal figures so he could “grow up” more. Like Uncle Ben.
Besides, like to keep a Batfamily member dead, because a Bruce is best when he’s angst. But since you frickers like Jason, Dick, Tim, Damien, Steph, etc. and they make us money so much, we cant kill them off.
>DC rep here.
Did your dads connections at Nintendo get you that job?
No, my moms connections at WB in California.
More like your moms BBC connections
?
Most people I know loath the Bat Family. I would throw everyone but Dick into a volcano, never to be seen again, for Alfred (and with it Bruce’s connection to his humanity) to return
im glad we had DiDio steering the ship for so long to gut the universe with New 52
im glad editorial used the last bits of good will to hire fricking bendis rather than build a stable of quality new writers
im glad movie executives spent over a decade sticking their dicks into every minor element of every single movie, turning them not just into corporate slop but actively making them fail as basic films
I'm glad they spent over a decade fricking around on a Live Service game nobody wanted and didn't allow any other DC games to be made
I'm glad they handed off the movie universe to a rick and morty flavored joss whedon who hasn't proven he can make even a single competent film
i'm glad i get to watch everything I love be destroyed in front of me
i'm so fricking tired
Well Didio is back personally for Nightwing
Sometimes I do wonder DC hiring Bendis for a panic button. Writer name recognition seems is really tied to sales performance like how Tom King's Wonder Woman has a good sale now.
Monolith's Wonder Woman single player game is coming tho
Yeah it's bizarre, like I see a lot of female "stans" does like sexy outfits. In example for Zatanna, they do like her stage Magician with fishnet rather than street look at JLD
I honestly feel like it was just a frick you. It was a "let's bring on my buddy while we ride this shitter down"
>Well Didio is back personally for Nightwing
Didn't he want to kill Nightwing?
Population would rebounce once housing prices fall when the population decline
This is almost never mentioned because corporations would suffer from it so governments don't want this to happen even if it's better for the population
Migration hurts the population, blue collar black businesses got fricked HARD by Illegal Mexicans who work 12 hours all week
You morons do know all first world countries have shit natality rates, right? And you do know this entire discussion has nothing to do with the medium of comics, right?
And that is by design.
wait a minute
this discussion has nothing to do with comics
Yes it does.
Manga vs comics.
Who will win?
Manga already won. I'm not even gonna sat it's because any inherent quality in East vs West storytelling, I think Manga just figured a far more efficient and effective distribution network sooner while Western comics have struggled to play catch-up to due to a stubborn refusal to adapt to a changing market.
Is manga really winning though
Be on the lookout for 2024's sales next year. If the trend keeps up, it could lose another 2-5 million.
And it would still be winning.
Globally, manga has been completely crushing American comics for decades, it’s only in recent years that it’s been beating American comics in America.
>recent years
Don't lie anon.
There's no lie
Manga was nothing compared to American comics in Ameica until they started doing nine digit sales in 2021. Look at the Diamond numbers here https://www.comichron.com/yearlycomicssales.html
Manga has been outselling comics since the 70s when we compare native sales
Which is actually worse because america has 3 times the population
It's like the "golden age" in comics never ended in Japan, only recently has the internet kind of started to hurt sales
It's insane to think that Comics have been killing themselves since the 70s or so and nobody really noticed until it's too late
two more weeks
Until what?
this is really depressing. I don't want DC to die
I don't want it to either, but hey, worst case scenario is they license the characters to a company and to people who care more about comics than Warner Brothers ever did. Look at what they're doing with Transformers and GI Joe now. Those comics are doing great financially (by modern standards) and critically. But in the meantime, I'm finding enough DC books to enjoy these days. It'll be okay.
>worst case scenario is they license the characters to a company and to people who care more about comics than Warner Brothers ever did.
what leads you to believe Warner can or will do that in their current state?
No, it won't. Neither Marvel nor DC are profitable.
Do they actually operate on a loss?
No, of course not. People just say that without knowing what they're talking about.
There's no evidence that DC comics has ever made a profit in its entire existence.
To operate and be in the black they have to barely have a skeleton crew and no more then 20-30 actual creators at any one time.
Girls were reading the sleazy sexual comics and shlicking to the violence and danger. The swaths of girls who had berserk on their shelves and things like the darkness and brooding male leads of sexually charged comics tells you everything you need to know.
The normie girls that weren't into it? They were getting into archie and girl fantasy action romance manga stuff.
It's funny how so many graphic novels aimed at girls seem to miss what girls want.
They don't care.
It's about putting out a product, brainwashing/gaslighting girls to keep the "sisterhood"/feminists off their back, and making money.
Not putting out product they actually wont.
Marvel made the Hulk a fricking chink. DC made Robin a gay. They can both fricking die.
Gee, I wonder why Manga is beating Comics
>Gee, I wonder why Manga is beating Comics
I unironically agree that's part of the problem, but sheer cost is the biggest roadblock to growth. Some autist in another thread once crunched the value-per-page of Demon Slayer vs a year's worth of Batman at a subscription discount, and it was basically cheaper by 2-to-1. Not only that, you'd get multiple complete volumes of a coherent story VS twelve issues of one Batman title that might not even be self-contained.
Superhero comics as a consumer product as just insanely uncompetitive with manga in terms of price and bang-for-buck. Even if a comic title is really good, the price creates a barrier to entry.
Floppies have effectively become incomprehensible and unapproachable to the average reader. You need a fan-made flowchart just to follow storylines with all the constant hopping around between series, and runs only last for 12-18 issues at the most usually, which means everything feels completely incoherent. Stand-alone graphic novels are probably the only way for the industry to stay relevant long term.
Incidentally, this would be a business model similar to European comics which, while still getting clobbered by manga, are still much better off than US cape comics. pd8as
After covid caused so many problems in 2020, Berger Books went straight-to-tpb. They're not relevant.
Runs being short and starting at #1 again quickly is what people are constantly demanding though! They start shitting themselves and stomping their feet if you make them read more than a year's worth of books.
>Y'ALL MEAN I FINNA BE NEEDNA READ FIFTEEN WHOLE ASS ISSUES TO KEEP UP? NAH CUH
This is why Marvel is winning with Ultimate X-Men.
It’s essentially a manga but in comic form.
What do we do after the last american comic is printed?
numbah wun comic's sales wouldn't even rank on a manga index.
Honestly the sooner the big 2 go under, the better.
Agreed
Feminist do not understand the mind of an average women. This is why their products (along with homosexual liberal men) fail. It's for no one.
I think you're the one that doesn't understand. It's about female hierarchy. You don't think they spent all that time virtue signaling and buying shoes to impress you?
90% of the stupid shit women do is to impress other women and raise their social standing so when they practice their collectivist rituals the woman with the right opinions, right fashion etc can make the rules.
When they succeed they get to decide who is the most attractive, who should be dating who, and what the definition of success is.
That's why when women fail to compete in the classic Stacy arena, they'll get a dyke haircut, tattoos, and a nosering. Because their new group of beta women are creating their own delusional redefinition, and they'll collectively enable the belief that they succeeded.
They're all competing to become the real princess of delusionland, because then all their dreams will surely come true.
No, you're right.
But it's poisoned with the ideological falsehoods that corporations and the "sisterhood" slipped into it to muddy the waters and ensure they have a place in the natural flow of human female culture.
If there is any and I mean ANYTHING negative going on between women one of two things is going to happen
The go into a full on war where one will stand and one will fall, or they blame a man for whatever issue women naturally have.
ITS A MANS FAULT!!
>But it's poisoned with the ideological falsehoods that corporations
I agree, however women will always cling to the status quo the same way they'll cling to the most prominent males in their circle.
Add to that the invention of the smartphone allowing the algorithm to blast them with FOMO non-stop(travel, frick, buy, plastic, politics, live laugh love), as well as the freedom to obsessively ruin your life with every social ill you can conceive women are not going to appear healthy, even though they're doing what they always have been just completely unchecked and supercharged.
>ITS A MANS FAULT!!
It kinda is, solely because women were never capable of building a stable society. It's like complaining that your dog keeps shitting inside the house when you refuse to walk it.
Ultimately it was men who gave women rights, and to this day enforce and subsidize their nonsense.
Women have no common sense or agency.
So we should treat them like children and beat their ass raw when they do the stupid shit they are doing and make them suffer equal punishments for the same crime as men?
Okay. LOL
Anyway, 55% -65% of american women between the ages of 25 and 40 will be single, in crippling debt, under or over employed, and childless.
They can do what the frick they want. The vast majority are all going to die alone or at the hands of their girlfriend or four legged boyfriend.
Most men are just going to buy the use of an escort every week or so and ignore all women at work and in public. It's been proven to be the safest easiest way for men to live now.
meant to quote (you)
> four legged boyfriend.
lol missed that part, the dogpill is real.
I think with womens liberation, the pill, and decades of brainwashing the only solution is a time machine. There are too many high status men who enjoying the joyride, and too many beta appears thinking that it will trickle down to them as long as they play ball.
In the end it comes down to men to refuse the system, because women never will. Women shouldn't work, they should be wives and mothers, they shouldn't have access to filth online or in the public, and they should not be educated beyond the household needs. They'd be happier and as always insist they deserve more, but if you give them more the only change is that they become miserable and lonely again.
Even if you go full MGTOW and pretend to be happy with escorts, you're effectively just the same as them. Living a fruitless and pointless life instead of fostering a better future in a good society for coming generations to thrive and invest further into.
It all goes went wrong when we chose the individualists masturbatory dream instead of long term satisfaction, in that way men are really no different from the women we complain about.
You can't win by yourself, men and women go together or everything worth having will simply perish.
Is this the Incel manifesto?
Anon, these "high value men" have choice, agency and limited virility.
These women have the ILLUSION that high status men want and approve of them. It's a farce created to lure them into a para-harem.
They are driven insane by media filled with women who can barely be considered human or sane. A plague of madness drives many of them into insanity as the madness of one woman if left uncheck will infect all women around her.
Which is why crazy b***hes(dog lovers, bpd broads, gold diggers, femnist types, pathetic bitter spinsters, rapey lesbians, prostitutes) were called out by men and women who KNOW what these...creatures are all about. And their moronation is poisonous to a community of women.
But the "sisterhood" basically turned all of their ills and problems with other women and responsbility for their own choices onto men and made us the villian in their self made dramas.
We are done.
We will not lose half our shit and access to any children we may have with women.
We will not be the bad guy in their drama filled lives.
We will not be the straw penis they point.
We are done.
We can get an escort for fun, and a surrogate for children.
The rest can die pathetic and alone.
I'm not saying people don't have a choice, they're just making the objectively worse choice by supporting the status quo which i think we agree on.
Blaming women is just pointless, because they're incapable of taking on the responsibility of leading our society, again it's like blaming your dogs behavior on it instead of the owner. I'm not white knighting, it was just never going to work out. Men have to decide for things to change, women will never fight in a revolution, much less one that limits their girlbossing.
I used to argue against MGTOW rhetoric, but at this point i've given up hope and you're probably better off living for yourself than betting on our culture recovering to a more sane level. It's just not that great to live without hoping for something better.
Yes, if pre-order it you also get a t-shirt with a frog print.
Bro, I just told you.
We have decided.
We are giving up and letting them have their freedom and exercising our right to not engage and distance ourselves.
We have access to escorts and surrogates. We like them, as they have been telling us since most of us figured out that we want to put our weewee in their hoohas and have internalized that.
They can have fun with their single boosb***h life, lusting after men who will not even do them the honor of using them to bust one off, and abusing their shower head and plastic and we'll be over here...just chilling out.
We'll have our own money, our own homes, our own cars, everything is clean, we cook our own meals, and we can go order an escort pick her up spend an hour giving her that deep dick kick, carry her ass to the uber cause them legs weak, then look over the baby fund and build a nursery.
That's the dream for for most of us.
Answer me this. I'm serious.
What do women have to offer that we can't get from a 10/10 escort and a surrogate?
>Answer me this. I'm serious.
>What do women have to offer that we can't get from a 10/10 escort and a surrogate?
A loving caring environment for your family, genuine intimacy and companionship and the long term satisfaction that gives you fulfillment in life.
I'm sorry you even have to ask that, i grew up around traditional family units and compared to the hyper individualistic modern life that you're suggesting i'm horrified that your suggestion might become the norm.
There is something so much better than that, but we took the money and let international interests dictate how we live and think.
Having said that, i am extremely sceptical and as mentioned in my last post i'm pretty much hopeless too, i just don't want to be. If fricking escorts and raising a kid from a surrogate works for you then good luck bro. I just see it as another step away from the road we should have been traveling from the start.
80% of all marriages end because of winen
Most of which for no reason or cheating on part of the wife.
>women leave shitty marriages, often with abusive husbands
>but that’s a bad thing!
Anon we have the statistics saying they were the reasons the marriages were shit.
Besides. Now that basically well over half of all women between 25 and 50 will be single and childless with no hope of marriage. That means they are safe from evil men and narrieage.
>Kite-Man animated spinoff
Please kill it all off already
Neither marvel or DC needs to sell a single comic book to survive anymore. Since both are just tiny cogs in billion dollar companies the only reason they exist is as ip farms
Sad but true. Other than maintaining copyrights for all those characters, it's just nepotism and making diversity hires happy so they can keep their tax benefits.
Maybe we'd be better off asking writers and artists to go on kickstarter or something and let the creative people make all the decisions. That was my dumb idea to save vidya; crowd funded free software engine and assets that anyone could use as long as they respect the GNU.
It just seems like people either get over or under-hyped for stuff like that, and they're more interested in crucifying project leaders the second it stops living up to expectations than seeing actual successes.
Actually Isom and Rippa has proven that there is a real fricking market there.
The problem is that the actual talent and potential talent don't know it and don't give a frick anymore.
The comic shops? They are too busy pining for old days of awesome comics where spiderman didn't sell his soul to satan, the xmen weren't a sex cult, batman wasn't a mopey c**t, and green flash was actually cool
It's time to move on and start from scratch.
The creatives who actually have a name worth respecting and care about the comic book as an artform and the comic shops need to get together and start talking about the future.
Kickstarter and patreon and using social media to get the word out is the only way forward now.
Make a new open universe of heroes and have only the new creatives be a part of it and have full control over it.
An open source comic universe where anyone can create a hero and a group of creatives and the fanbase organically say yay or nay to them and they put out floppies with these cahracters.
Books like sandman are released in the format and we are allowed to care about comics as an artform and have it on our tables and hold and read.
A kindle with color pages dosn't feel as good and as a true as a real book in my hands. It just doesn't.
That's interesting and makes me feel like maybe comics could come back. I'm just so invested in the capeshit i've been consuming for decades i don't know if i'll ever stop missing it.
It really does sound cool with a open source comic universe, i just hope Soft Serve makes the cut.
>Actually Isom and Rippa has proven that there is a real fricking market there.
Right wingers are always ready to throw money at anything they think supports their political views and shits on the opposite side. That’s why right wing comics are often successful on crowdfunding. But when you actually start to looo at the numbers it’s not that there’s a lot of people eager to just have GOOD COMICS, it’s relatively small group of people overpaying absurd amounts of money to just own the libs.
At least it's a start. With better tools for posing 3D models, AI painting tools, online distribution format instead of floppies/tpb etc we could be looking at a new golden era for comics.
It's bullshit, but i believe it!
I forget which creator it was, but someone once said that a pair of Batman pants probably outsell all the comics.
I think it’s a common expression bc I’ve heard various iterations of it. I remember people pointing out Smallville probably had more watchers than any Superman comic had readers
>autism war between anons about women in comics
>the funny east asian island nation has had women and men coexist in manga since the 70’s
wow, what a deep and intriguing debate guys
japanese women are better writers, and female japanese readership are not reading american capeshit but rather a variety of genres.
are telling me that superman getting raped by russians and his son sucking wieners didnt boster the sales?
>Russian rape
nothing of the kind ever happened. What are youu talking about?
>he doesnt know
Daily reminder that a single manga series (Demon Slayer) was such a big seller that the ENTIRETY of a month of sales for the American comic book industry (not just capeshit, the whole thing) was a rounding error in comparison
It's still perplexing to me how even something as quite frankly basic as demon slayer did something liike this. It's an impressive manga but not extraordinary enough to warrant something like this. Are the japs alright?
Anon, we don't have anyone that can sell the basics.
Worse, they don't even know what the basics are or have EVER had to be in a position where they had to start from scratch and I mean build a world a power system a visual design language for costumes. None of it.
It's basic to you because you simply don't know any better.
I'm really excited for Absolute Power.