>Di-did you just killed this robot that I just met, who's entire propose is to kill my father; that my genius friend could easLy fix or a magical dragon could revive in a instant?
>AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I'M GOING INSANE, HELP ME MENTALLY ILL FATHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Gohan randomly turning into a pacifist makes no fricking sense and him being needed to be motivated by 16 is stupid well.
>5 year old Gohan went back to fight Vegeta and save his dad
>took on Frieza as a little kid and never backed down
>trained hard for 3 years for the androids
>became a super saiyan due to duty and not wanting to fail his friends
>suddenly turns into a crybaby against Cell and begs him to stop because he doesn’t want to fight
Are we sure this is the same dude that fought Frieza. He was never afraid of going all out against him. Talk about character regression. Gohan should have all the motivation to defeat Cell, the world is at stake and his friends are in danger but he still needs a pep talk from 16
What I saw some morons argue is that Gohan doesn't like to fight because he has PTSD. While kid Goku fought for fun ans self improvement, all Gohan's fights were world ending battles with his friends dying.
I don't buy it, I think it's moronic.
Gohan was image training with Krillin on the way to Namek for fun, they didn’t even know Frieza was there yet. He was eager to fight the androids, Goku tells him to slow on their way to meet them. He asks Goku to push him harder in the HTC. Yeah, the PTSD argument makes no sense. It was never built up
Only thing I can think of in regards to the PTSD crap is that he was exposed to full blown fighting as a kid for many years and was clearly afraid of it. He's basically a junkie, and "PTSD" Gohan is his attempt to be clean.
That being said, he never outright condemns his father or the Z Fighters, so basically none of this makes sense.
He doesn't like to fight because of Chichi's parenting. She wanted to turn him into a nerd.
He’s not a fighting maniac like Goku but it doesn’t mean he won’t fight for the right reasons. He’s shown it time and time again during the previous sagas. Yet when cell juniors start kicking shit out of his friends, he still won’t fight and needs 16 to give him a pep talk. This is the same kid that immediately kicked Dodoria when namekian strangers were in danger. Shit, why did he even bother training if he didn’t want to fight Cell?
Regular Gohan =/= Angry Gohan
Regular Goku =/= Angry Goku
Newly unlocked SSJ Goku =/= Regular SSJ Goku
Newly unlocked SSJ2 Gohan =/= Regular SSJ Gohan
Goku's personality and attitude changed the moment he became SSJ, the same way Gohan's did when he went SSJ2. Or what you think Gohan being wienery and arrogant and sadistic is his true nature? Come on now he's a kid with emotions all over the place don't treat him like an adult with sensible emotional control
I can kind of understand Gohan not being able to tap into his power intially. Unlike other times when he organically got mad, this time cell is intentionally provoking him and Gohan knows he has to tap into it but can't. So I can accept that, but the 16 part is dumb and could have been made much better with just a little bit of development. I mean 16 and Gohan could have bonded over the 10 day lead up to the cell games, maybe over nature or something, anything would have been better than nothing
That nasty b***h ChiChi's corruption took hold
>the most talented saiyan ever? NOOOO YOU HAVE TO BECOME A MEDIOCRE SALARYMAN INSTEAD
Toriyama is extremelly redpilled on women.
moron, Chichi wanted Gohan to be a scientist or a doctor, combining both intelligence and strength Gohan would be unstoppable.
Chichi is an insufferable b***h. She tried to fight Ripped Buu, peak woman moment.
>no fricking sense
Chichi
>chichi
Its pretty clear she never wanted him to be a fighter and got her mom ideas in him in order to ruin his relationship with his father. Typical woman behavior
>PTSD
People say this but idk. It isn't exactly an unreasonable explanation but there isn't much proper development of it.
I mean, he has been watching people he loves, such as his father, fricking die since he was four years old. I'm sure shit like seeing krillin fricking explode could cause a person to forsake fighting as the horrific shit that it is.
Goku killed his grandpa and also saw Kuririn die, he doesn't have PTSD tho.
Did Cell Frieza ever have one of those kino moments where he had to be the good guy to stop an even worse guy than him? You know the kind of thing I'm talking about.
Frieza became a protagonist in Tournament of Power and even helped Goku defeat Jiren at the very end.
Say what you want about Super, but TOP was good.
gohan clearly hates fighting every time he fights hes usually backed into a corner with no other choice. every fight you listed was because he wanted to save someone or couldnt get out of the fight, not because he has saiyan fight autism like goku and vegeta
this is an arc he completes before the cell saga even starts. comparing mid saiyan saga gohan to cell saga gohan and saying it makes sense hes a pacifist is stupid
Did you skim watch or something? Every time he fights it's because he gets hyped up by something that happens. Him and Goku trained to be perfectly calm in super saiyan mode, so he wasn't hyped up at all. He had just spent the last however long watching his dad fight Cell only for Goku to make the "pacifist" choice and surrender. He was confused as frick as to why Goku picked him to fight next and thought, "well, dad knows I prefer the peaceful way so maybe that's how he expects me to win". Gohan always hated fighting, he thought he could talk Cell out of it by warning him about the consequences of his actions. He very clearly explains exactly what it would take for him to use his full strength and why it would be a bad idea, that's the whole reason that Cell goes psycho mode on everyone else. You sound like you watched dbz abridged and nothing else.
nta but dude just admit its a character assassination. it shouldnt take gohan that long to get in the fighting spirit. the earth is at stake, hes been training with his father for a year + almost a year in the time chamber to fight androids. instead he reverts into his saiyan saga 5 year old self.
>b-but he has to get hyped up
how hyped up was he when he fought the frieza soldiers on namek? or when he fought guldo and recoom in the face of certain death? what about when he fought ginyu in his dads body without hesitation? hey how about when he picked a fight with vegeta on earth? he was ready to fight on a hair trigger after the saiyan saga. why wasnt cell beating up goku hyping him up?
>goku makes the pacifist choice
goku was going to die, even cell was telling him to take a senzu bean before they continue fighting. he ends up throwing the bean to cell which is funny because he later gets his ass beat by a cell junior since he was so energy deprived from throwing his bean away. he wasnt being a pacifist, he LOST.
>gohan always hated fighting
no
>gohan explained his asspull mechanic to cell and then cell triggered it because the entire cell saga was full of characters making moronic decisions for the sake of the plot since the start
at least in the manga it was only 4 chapters but in the show it takes gohan entirely too long to actually grow a pair of balls and fight cell.
>how hyped up was he when he fought the frieza soldiers on namek? or when he fought guldo and recoom in the face of certain death? what about when he fought ginyu in his dads body without hesitation? hey how about when he picked a fight with vegeta on earth? he was ready to fight on a hair trigger after the saiyan saga. why wasnt cell beating up goku hyping him up?
Are you moronic? None of those fights are example of his using his hidden power. He was still FIGHTING Cell, he just hadn't been pushed into his hidden power.
>why wasnt cell beating up goku hyping him up?
Because he was confused as frick, he still thought he could reason with Cell at that point.
>goku was going to die, even cell was telling him to take a senzu bean before they continue fighting. he ends up throwing the bean to cell which is funny because he later gets his ass beat by a cell junior since he was so energy deprived from throwing his bean away. he wasnt being a pacifist, he LOST.
This is a huge stretch and doesn't make any sense. Goku has never quit or given up a fight before in his entire life, it's the exact opposite of his mantra of "I can't give up, people are counting on me!" Why aren't you butthurt about HIS character assassination in this scene? Is it because team four star didn't tell you to be?
>at least in the manga it was only 4 chapters but in the show it takes gohan entirely too long
Animes padding out their run time while they wait for the next manga issue to be released is more a criticism of the industry rather than of the show.
>he was still FIGHTING Cell
CHARACTERASSASSINATEDhan wasnt fighting cell. he didnt even try. he was on the evasive the entire time and the best he got was one kick to make some distance between him and cell. its character regression for him to be unable to fight his enemies.
>he thought he could reason with cell
give me a break, did he train in conflict resolution with goku in the hyperbolic time chamber?
>this is a huge stretch and doesnt make any sense goku has never quit or given up a fight before in his entire life
once again goku was going to die, thats no stretch. you take this moment of him forfeiting a match he was losing as pacifism. THATS a stretch. its not character assassination for goku because he actually fought until he couldnt anymore.
>animes padding out their run time
dude its like 40 minutes of the entire fight spent with him not doing anything when hes the main participant.
Not the anon you have been arguing with, but there is nothing wrong with Gohan's depiction in Cell saga. He's always been a little fraidy b***h when it comes to fighting until he gets triggered and goes into saiyan mode. That is literally what the entire arc of Gohan is during his fight will Cell. It's just not quit as spontaneous as it is before because now it's the main focus of the story.
Pls understand he was raised by a single mother.
Look on the bright side; If Dragonball Z was made today Gohan would be a troony.
No one cares pablo.
The dragon can't bring him back to life because he wasn't really a "life" in the purest sense of the word. The Dragon may have been able to rebuild him but it would have been another factory-like unit. For all intents and purposes, Android 16 really was dead and gone.
If you are white and you don't like DBZ, you are probably an ugly beta male.
>The Dragon may have been able to rebuild him but it would have been another factory-like unit
why? he's made of atoms. just reassemble them in the correct configuration and you have 16 back, from the moment of his destruction if you want.
AFAIR, they tried to wish him back and the dragon refused the wish. Make up whatever reasoning you want.
And he also forgets about that robot a few moments later. They don't even try to rebuild it or mention him again.
yes they do, they try to wish him back to life and shen long says no because he was a construct with no soul
I don't remember them trying to wish him back. They basically forget all about him.
you must have not payed attention or watched a bad dub where they fricked up the dialog
I think you have a bad memory. They never attempted it.
Android 18 and 17 were revived after being eaten by cell though right?
they weren't dead the first place
so how did cell absorb them
>Android 16 was a machine
so?
you cannot bring back the soul of a machine, because it has no soul.
so put the the machine back together
>oh shenron, great magical being whose power seemingly knows know limit, can you fix the screen on my iphone?
>NO
Shenrom clearly has limitations, reassembling complex machinery might as will be one.
I would assume that reversing the aging process of living creatures is no small feat either.
aging, life and death are natural and spiritual things, all connected to Dende, Kami and the Namekians in general.
Bulma's tech is the exploitation of the natural order, something that Dende or other Namekians (or Shenron) wouldn't know about.
So are cotton panties. Shenron's first ever wish.
So is a beaver building a dam. Shenron. couldn't rebuild a beaver's dam?
are you really comparing moving panties to building a sentient robot? you are peak autismo
>moving panties
he created them out of thin air. Almost as if it was by magic.
Panties don't grow on trees, they're mass produced in a factory in China or Bangladesh. They're not even pure cotton anymore there's always some poly threads in them at least for the elastic.
jesus christ your are actually an autist
what about sneakers, a pair of whatever Nike or Adidas, could Shenron summon that?
you will never be a woman
In Super, the gods are depicted as not being too fond of Bulma's tech. The time machine, for example, is some sort of abomination to them. They might not like Android 16 out of hand. Shenron is connected to that sort of thinking too.
what about the capsules? Are those heresy as well?
I don't know but there is probably a limit. Altering the fabric of time or attempting to create life seem pretty straight forward in terms of possible heresy.
>attempting to create life
android 16 not alive though
Gods probably view it as a mockery of life.
what about all the other androids before him
Android 17 and 18 are just augmented humans. So they are really just cyborgs (as DBZA points out). Android 16 was the only life-like android I can think of in the series. One that genuinely had its own thoughts and could break the conditioning of his own programming.
Android 8
I never watched Dragon Ball.
>the average American
It's been stated many times, that shenron powers are limited by his creator.
In fairness, this has always been kind of bullshit.
Could Kami grant immortality?
Wasn’t 17 still inside Cell when Gohan killed him?
Android 16 was a machine, while Cyborg 17 and 18 were modified humans.
why didn't they revive/rebuilding android 16 though
they no he was swept under the rug.
Also
>oh no shenlong only deals with uhhh living creatures and wishes related to living things, nevermind that the first canon wish was a pair of panties
>also never mind the movie where Android 8 is revived and has a bomb removed from him as well. None of the movies are real and none of the in-universe rules apply to anything else.
>trying to make sense out of children's cartoons
:/
's cartoon that adult males cosplay as and have stickers of on their car
If you make content for children nonsensical, it just encourages them to be moronic adults. If you're still confused, look in the mirror, because clearly you're moronic. Don't feel bad though, you're a victim of your ignorant parents, who were morons.
projecting much? is that why you voted Trump?
>voting
You will never be a woman.
like a fiddle
Those people cosplaying and having stickers of DBZ on their cars doesn't imply they do deep analysis of the anime where everyone can fly, blow up planets, and be wished back to life. If watching a cartoon is enough to make you moronic, then your parents did a bad job in raising you.
DBZ isn't nonsensical though.
don't care, SSJ2 Gohan is KINOOO
>Gohan randomly turning into a pacifist
Gohan never liked fighting, yes he was good at it and strong when he lost temper but he never actually liked it
Chi chi raised him a certain way and while Gohan does end up enjoying a fight once he's lost his temper, he's never the type to knowingly kill
Compare Gohan as a kid to Goku as a kid when it comes to how they were raised/grew up and see how Goku killed tons of people in red ribbon army while Gohan pretty much only killed a frieza soldier unintentionally
What you're forgetting with the Cell fight was Gohan KNEW he was stronger than Cell and would kill him, and unlike Frieza he seemed to be more personable to talk and reason with and wanted the situation to end in a better way
Plus it's also a call back to Goku sparing Vegeta/Piccolo
The 16 talk makes sense because from Gohans POV, 16 was evil and then became good, why couldn't a Cell change as well once it was known there was no chance for Cell to succeed?
It's crazy how Amerigays think anyone cares about their shitty ass funidub and crappiest music imaginable by faulconer outside of 'Murica. And actually believe, that goku is some kind of superman analogy, because of their garbage dub. Idiots. And then they were shocked when super got proper dub, and turned out everything they believed was a lie. Frickin morons.
And Super was garbage.
And btw, there are Japanese fans who prefer the American version and think it's laughable that Goku is voiced by some old Japanese lady... because IT IS laughable. You disgusting weebs are delusional morons (what a surprise, right?)
>And btw, there are Japanese fans who prefer the American version
All 2 of them? Most likely burger immigrants too. Japan loves Nozawa.
Delusional neck-beared trash.
>beared
Pedro.
If you are white and you don't like DBZ, you are probably an ugly beta male.
>All 2 of them? Most likely burger immigrants too. Japan loves Nozawa.
The very idea, that Japanese fans might prefer the Muridumb dub... Buahahahahahaha. How delusional can someone be?
>there are Japanese fans who prefer the American version
Japanese fans prefering the Murican dubb, BUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
>here are Japanese fans who prefer the American version
Funniest shit I read all year.
moron.
moron.
moron.
>think it's laughable that Goku is voiced by some old Japanese lady
not really given that he starts off as a child character.
Hey did you know that Bart Simpson isn;t voiced by an 8 year old boy as well?
>there are Japanese fans who prefer the American version and think it's laughable that Goku is voiced by some old Japanese lady
songohanda
>HELP ME MENTALLY ILL FATHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Goku believed in his son, and he was right.
>and he was right.
So why he second guessed and sacrificed himself?
>Why did he allow some room for doubt?
Because that is normal and healthy
Wasn’t Dende supposed to have improved Shenron? He should be able to recreate artificial beings like 16 again. Shit, he’s allowed to manipulate life and death as many times as he wants
>i-is that a baby crying while my home planet is being destroyed?
>AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH I'M GOING INSANE DIE KAKAROOOOOOOOOT!
DBZ always had shit tier writing but people ignore it because they're too focused on the fighting.
What's frustrating is how dbs broly tried to fix his origin but only made everything else worse. Super broly feels like a complete non character despite the shitty attempt to humanize him.
What the frick are you on about?
Super Broly's origin is perfectly fine and much better than "Goku cried......like alot......for four hours"
there is nothing wrong with the original Broly. He was depicted as being sick in the head and easily triggered by random things. A baby crying annoys the frick out of him and he goes into a rage-induced stupor. There is nothing wrong about that depiction.
Broly was always depicted as being insane. His dad kept a power suppressing collar on him because the dude just snaps and loses control of himself. Vegeta sensed naturally that there was something off about him. Broly was perfectly characterized but mentally stunted homosexuals can't read between the lines.
>Heh, that's right Cell. I am now the Ascended Super Saiyan Grade 4, other wise known as the Super Saiyan 2... Not to be confused with Super Saiyan Grade 2 (which is merely ascended form of Super Saiyan Grade 1). Nor, is it the overwhelming multitude of recolors afterwards that will render this form useless. Ultimately the emotional denouement to the story arc means nothing because we could have just focused on the tingle in our backs.
>nameless robot dies
>gohan goes ssj2
>goku dies in the same fight
>gohan doesnt get any more powerful
me ordering some inguri-monguri at the sushi bar next time
Gohan never sees his dad die.
I tried a couple times to watch DB, but it's just not the type of series I can get into. It's silly and whimsical and shit, and that's cool if you are into it, but I prefer the epic moments of DBZ.
You filtered yourself. The action and choreography in DB is a million times better than any of the ATATATA recycled animations in DBZ. Power scaling wasn't completely meaningless either yet.
lmao.
Now post anything past the Freeza saga.
There are plenty of beautifully animated moments post Frieza saga:
?t=328
DBZ was almost always of a much higher quality than DB.
>beautifully animated
but the fight choreography is absolute garbage. It's nearly the same as the other one you posted
>fly
>one punch
>fly
>one kick
Look at the world tournament fights in DB against Tien back when Tien was the toughest villain, or against Picollo Jr
The martial arts part of the fighting vanished when raditz showed up.
You mean the fights actually started to become awesome and exciting.
If anything the sayian saga was the peak. I love these group fights especially the kne against vegeta where everyone is just barely alive by the end.
Battle of attritions were the cream of the series. That's partly why Buu saga sucked. Cell is understandable, he can regenerate lost limbs but his power level still takes a blow. But with Buu, they lost that whole aspect of the battles. Felt pointless.
Raditz is so underrated
He's actually highly overrated by a lot of people. He shouldn't have been Goku's brother, just a random saiyan would have been enough.
Saiyans don't really care about family members much in the way that humans do. I kind of like that setup. When Frieza meets Goku he tells him he knew his father and Goku literally says "I don't care." Comes full circle.
That has less to do with being saiyan and more to do with fact that Goku doesnt give a shit about his saiyan heritage, especially when everyone from that race has tried to kill him. At that point he always said he is fighting as an earthling, its not really until he becomes super saiyan that he identifies more as a saiyan
> color changed
> redrawn parts
> swear effects added
Are these awful looking webms from the blurays or something?
If I could post the originals I would. Feel free to post the better versions yourself.
>so I read the manga
Ok beta male.
Arguable since he never seemed to care much at all that Radditz was his brother and was never all to inquisitive about it. As far as I understand though, it is a Saiyan trait to not have especially strong familial ties, at least when compared to humans.
Gimme a bit.
I think the fights in DBZ are better than the boring fights in DB. You people are like the homosexuals on Cinemaphile that pretend the older King's Field games are better than the Dark Souls games, or that you ever even cared about them before the actual popular thing that came out. You contrarian homosexuals are all the same.
?t=7205
It's too bad about Youtube's poor quality though. That part is animated really well.
>first second and a half of animation you linked is just black lines bashing into each other
there's that DBZ quality that would only be surpassed by Dragon Ball Super
What should they be from far away, you ugly fricking trash?
I hate Funimation's 'remasters' so much
Early DBZ, when it was still good and closer to DB.
Please stop posting that webm, the light off vegetas hand and touched up animation is so jarring.
I don't think anyone cares about what you have to say, moron.
When you are posting a travesty, people care.
I don't think anyone cares about what you have to say, on Cinemaphile or in real life. Sorry, moron.
I bet you think Goku's grandma voice is better too.
Everything about the Japanese version is better.
the LE HOT TAKES about japanese kids cartoons do not make you seem intelligent or edgy, btw
>krillin dies: goku goes super saiyan
>gohan dies: trunks goes super saiyan
>robot dies: gohan goes super saiyan 2
>goku dies: goku goes super saiyan 3
>nappa dies: vegeta....
why didnt vegeta get his super saiyan moment when his teammate died?
Because Vegeta jerk offs himself at the thought of having killed Nappa.
>krillin dies: goku goes super saiyan
gokuu never cared about kuririn, he only wanted to fight strong guys *raughs*
>gohan doesnt get any more powerful
Because it was his fault. All he felt was shame not anger.
the amount of people filtered by goku's senzu bean is... concerning. This manga was meant to be read partly by 12 year olds
dumb greentext, as expected from an ipad raised zoomie. gohan was going through a lot of soul searching, and finding meaning in things that his father wasn't able to get across to him.
Gohan killed 16 when he powers up and destroys the memory chip that fell out of his head.
Bulma could have took it and slotted it into a speak and spell and bam 16 lives.
esl
Things people always overlook about that scene
>16s speech completes HIS character arc, it's HIS moment as well as Gohan's
>it's a throwback/parallel to Eighter's relationship with Goku and how Goku reacted to Eighter's death
>It's shows a juxtaposition to Cell. 16 and Cell are both robots built to Kill Goku, and yet 16 has chosen to overcome this prerogative to choose goodness. 16 is almost acting as Cell's shoulder angel in this scene as well as Gohan's, and then Cell comes along and literally crushes the life out of him, showing that waiting for Cell to see the light is futile because he literally just crushed it right in front of him.
Android 16's death is also one of the most visually disturbing. Can't rule that out either. Gohan witnesses Cell's brutality first hand and just wants to kill him before it happens to his friends and family as well.
>how he subtly stops smiling just as the foot comes crushing down on him
Test
It works because Gohan is a nice guy, same way he attached himself to Piccolo who also wanted to kill his father and went ballistic when Piccolo was killed. Literally the same shit, they pulled it twice on you.
>Dragonball Z
Y-I-K-E-S my dude
>It's an ESL brownoid thread
If you're white and you don't like DBZ, it's probably because you are an ugly beta male and cannot relate with the chadness of DBZ's characters.
Of course I like Dragon Ball, but I'm white so I read the manga and type in coherent English
Wow, a cartoon made for 11 year old Japanese kids and beloved by adult hispanics and Black folk is stupid? Mind blowing. Grow up.
>Wow, a cartoon made for 11 year old Japanese kids and beloved by adult hispanics and Black folk is stupid? Mind blowing. Grow up.
>kym
kys
>did you just killed
good morning sir